Elden Ring Lore: Messmer, Marika, and the Bonny Village Snakeskin

[@noamias4897]

For anybody curious after the DLC especially I've been craving up-to-date lore theory videos and I've found that these smaller KZbinrs (apart from Storm King) are especially good: The Alchemist, Silent Ellipsis, Scum Mage Infa, Nameless Singer and Garrulous Goldmask. Storm King and Silent Ellipsis are my personal favorite.

[@suicidalelf1]

Nice list dude. Watch most of them. I used to love Elden tales, but he just left. Jack the mimic is good too

[@jamesio20]

I highly, HIGHLY recommend Occam's Onion. He made a video on the Sun Realm was probably the best lore theory video I have ever seen. I believe it's called "the collapse of the sun realm". It's also over an hour long so prepare. It puts things together based on item descriptions and what not better than anyone else has imo, at least that I have seen. HIGHLY recommend if you enjoy the creators you listed.I also am subbed to and excited to watch videos from storm king and all of those other creators. That Sun Realm video COOKED.

[@jacobbenjamin2664]

I just want to add that I LOVE Scum Mage Infas videos. I think he’s got a genuinely unique take on the game. I don’t always get on with his theories sometimes but every one of his videos leaves me thinking deeper than before.

[@Sohelanthropus]

Last Protagonist, Kosmos, Crunchyy and Honored Madman too The smaller the channel, the better the content

[@hellogoodbye3786]

Firelink Conspiracy is also incredible!

[@Painted_Owl]

Editing Lucifer into Messmer for the thumbnail is pretty clean, ngl

[@worldlinezero4783]

Ohhhh, that makes so much more sense. I was just like, why did they give messmer zoomer broccoli hair

[@jacksonhoerster3966]

Messmer is aesthetically Satan but symbolically anything but. Miquela on the other hand is definitely a better image for Christian-God subversion. Neither fit Milton’s Lucifer but Miquella fits some conceptions of Lucifer best. The most perfect Angel rebelling for a “perfect” order of control. Milton’s Satan is different. Milton brings us an intelligent Satan that knows he’s lost already, but defines himself in opposition to God. He will damage creation to simply show defiance.

[@TheAuspiciousGoldmask]

After the dlc, the harpy song makes even more sense, mainly the part: “Golden one, at whom were you angry at ?”

[@claytonc6417]

Just like the "curse" of the undead Marika's blessing couldn't cure Messmer, because he is already working as intended

[@AlecEburhard]

Are you talking about the curse of the undead from Dark Souls? If so, can you elaborate please?

[@eren5148]

exactly, the serpent "curse" is just Messmer's nature, it's referred to as such in Andreas's ashes

[@giannixx]

@@AlecEburhard There's one interpretation in which the "undead" appearance is the natural state of humans and their pygmy ancestors. In order to "restore your humanity" as in, your human appearance, you need to sacrifice part of your own humanity, to burn a shard of the Dark Soul as kindle for the bonfire. However, that is also because of the curse Gwyn put upon humans, the Darksign which seals their humanity. When the Darksign is triggered in an "alive" human, they awake again, becoming undead. The toll of this undeath seems to be the person's humanity, as it is consumed by the Darksign each time they die and rise again. Gradually, they "lose their humanity and go hollow", progressing through dementia until they become mindless zombies. I believe that, when the people of Londor claim the "hollow" was the original form of man, they are referring to the "beef jerky" appearance, as we know the pygmies all look like squalid undead, and we know they did when they found the Dark Soul (as per the DS intro cutscene). Even if they were mindless back then and the Dark Soul gave them intelligence/reason, Londor doesn't seem to want to return man to a mindless state, only a hollow one. This makes sense if we consider what I said in the beginning, that you need to give away a piece of your own humanity in order to look alive again. Maybe the "human" appearance is a result of the Darksign, as it makes humans look more like the gods, but it can only be maintained after death by feeding the Darksign humanity. This could also have been a measure to incentivize undead humans to keep offering their humanity to bonfires (thus indirectly feeding the First Flame and sustaining the Age of Fire). Gwyn didn't want humans to gather humanity (the shards of the Dark Soul) for themselves because he feared "the Darklord that would one day be born amongst them", that was the reason for branding mankind with the Darksign in the first place. So prior to the Darksign, humans might have been sorta "perfect undead", beings that could keep reviving themselves through the power of the Dark Soul without significant drawbacks, in that way being more immortal than the gods themselves. They probably all looked like hollows but weren't crazy or mindless. Undeath only became a curse after the branding of the Darksign. Another possible reference the OP was making is the fact that "humans are of the dark" yet most of them worship the gods that subjugated their ancestors. Humans are heirs of the Dark Soul, yet they pursue the gods, heirs of Gwyn's Lord Soul of Light.

[@Azaganna]

He literally says o mother, just like the gesture. You’re the first person I’ve seen to notice the connection

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

A curious object that existed only in version 1.0 is the Red Insignia that Rya gives to us as an invitation to Volcano Manor. It depicts a tree (presumably the Erdtree) entwined by a large serpent (Eiglay, presumably). For the longest time I assumed that it depicted a struggle of two sides in Rykard's war. But then I noticed that the outer design is very much shaped like a pelvic bone and that the Serpent spirals like a Crucible Spiral such as what the Hornsent worship. Here is the rub: HOW do we enter the Shadowlands? By taking the withered arm of Miquella as he nests in a giant's PELVIC BONE. What if the Serpent and the Tree are not fighting, but are CONJOINING? What if a normalized Crucible current is created by the coupling of Serpent with Tree (aka, a Serpent and a Shaman)? This may be why the Shaman are "potted" in Jars and why the trees are growing from their bodies. They are part Serpent, at the least, and meld easily with other entities. This also explains Dominula village and their attempt to make the Lands Between fertile again by skinning their victims and burning them. Serpents represent fertility in many religions, after all, and they represent rebirth. Marika was "reborn as a goddess" (per the Shield of the Guilty) and likely is part Serpent herself. This also explains her serpent circlets and her gown that spirals like a serpent. And let us not forget the Iron Virgins. They are full of snakes and are used to blaspheme against the Golden Order. Rykard implements them to taunt Marika's origins. Miyazaki even said that they were his favorite enemy design. Edit to add that the branches of the tree on the Insignia actually look like the many tongues that are on the Sword of Blasphemy and within the Serpent we fight. It is as if the branches of the Erdtree each are a hero, much like Rykard courts heroes and then consumes them.

[@OfficialChrissums]

banger comment

[@ASIRA89]

The conjoining of Serpent and Tree would fit nicely into my own headcanon asumption that the snake in Bonnie Village isn't Mesmer's previous form (although that might very well be possible and makes sense to me as well) but in a way Mesmer's "father". I don't have real evidence, only a feeling, that the snake sensed great potential in Bonnie Village, in the form of Marika. The snake promised her power and the chance to "free herself" and take revenge for herself and her people. Marika (shaman, related to the tree) conjoined with the snake/serpent, and the two became one. The Abyssal snake was now basicly a part of Marika. Marika then gave birth to Mesmer who inherited the Abyssal snake/curse. I'm not sure if I'd see Mesmer as an offshoot of Marika, because to me, it feels as if the Snake used Marika to be reborn. So rather than an offshoot of Marika, I see Mesmer as an offshoot of the "father" the snake. Maybe that is part of the reason why Marika was afraid of Mesmer, because he didn't feel like her own offspring. So, this is kinda like a "garden of eden snake" interpretation for me, with the snake representing sin, or the curse that comes with choosing revenge. Another idea would be that the Snake did not take advantage of Marika, but that Marika killed the Snake herself. We saw how the Shamans around the Eternal city live in harmony with animals. The animals follow the shamans, or sit in front of them when they are singing. So it might be a great act for a shaman to willingly kill an animal. Marika killed the Snake and took it's life for her own. Maybe that's even what we see in the vague scene where she takes golden threats out of.. something resembling skin? If she as a shaman can meld harmoniously with others, what happens if she takes a life and melds VIOLENTLY with it instead? I'd asume she would gain power, but become cursed. Tree and Snake would form a spiral that reaches godhood. Then she gave birth to Mesmer.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@ASIRA89 the cutscene depicts Marika taking golden threads from a Serpent (according to many lorists out there) so it could be such a scenario. Personally, I think the links between Marika and Serpents are too many to be ignored. It could also be that the Abductor Virgins are mocking Marika for the child she abandoned in the Shadowlands (Messmer). Rykard was a brilliant torturer and used psychological torture alongside physical torture. The way the baby is cradled on the Virgins is very similar to the statue in Messmer's bossroom. GRR Martin has a fixation on the cost of a parent favoring one child over another, especially to expedite the succession of one heir over another. As per this video, and my own headcannon, Marika clearly favored Godwyn at the cost of Messmer. My fixation is that Messmer is also part giant (through Radagon) which explains why his Abyssal form conjures a Flame orb identical to the Flame of the Fell God. The Giants are not Adverse to Serpents, either. They are both Volcanic entities in their own ways, the Forge even depicting serpents on its sides. Another strange coincidence is that the Stone Coffins depict the Abyssal Serpent along their hulls. And the inverted Garden of Eden story is likely true. Marika tempted the Serpent, probably dancing not unlike a snake charmer (like the Dancer of Ranah). Tanith, too, was a dancer. There is a reason a Crucible Knight serves her. It could even be that her attempt to devour Rykard after we defeat him hints at Marika's evolution. To devour, or be devoured, is to meld with something in the world of ER. Living Pots "devour" the slain heroes, and Marika is a "vessel". I also believe this inclination toward c a n n i b a l i s m vindicates Anastasia and her obsession with it. Perhaps she understood how Finger Maidens were made and wished to become one.

[@hellogoodbye3786]

I want to add that at the cerulean coast, on the big tombs that has the ox imagery, you can also find imagery of a snake eating it's tail. I believe that these tomb structures are associated with the hornsent since there is also Buddhist monk imagery along the sides of these structures (similar to the buddha figures near the entrance of Belurat tower). The snake is without a doubt an integral symbol to the hornsent culture at the very least. But I think you're onto something much closer to the truth.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@hellogoodbye3786 yeah, I noticed that the Abyssal Serpent was along the hulls of the Stone Coffins. It is specifically what Messmer transforms into in his 2nd phase.

[@fight249]

Your use of music and imagery is amazing and brings me back to when I first started watching soulsborne lore videos

[@ABrickinTime]

I’m grateful that content creators like you continue to produce Elden Ring dlc lore videos. I’m not sure why the big names haven’t made as many so keep it up!

[@monoclesquid9667]

I strongly believe that the Base Serpent devoured the Sun at one point, and that this is what made the Fell God “Fell,” he is deprived of a body and must instead manifest through the bodies of his followers, the Fire Giants, and as a bodiless and fragmented god, he rewards flesh sacrifice - as seen in the Fire Giant boss fight.

[@hellogoodbye3786]

You know, messmers second phase- when he does his orb attack at the beginning of the second phase, the base serpent is almost devouring the orb. Another similar imagery- Bernahls weapon, devourers sceptor, is that of a serpent eating an orb.

[@Noizzed]

There is a definite connection with serpents and the Fell god. The gladiator's greaves are adorned with the image of a single eye in the middle. That has to be a reference to the "One eyed god of the giants" and their helm is covered with snakes, as we already know. Also, the Blood star and thorns are also connected to the Fell god, we see that the Fire Prelates are commanders of the Fire Monks (armor desc.) and one of their weapons is the Thorned Whip, according to it's description, it's "fashioned after the image of the briars of sin". Which is the literal name of the aberrant sorcery "Briars of Sin" We also see the sorcerers and monks/prelates hang around with each other. That is pretty evident to me. And a little more, the "Red Thorn Roundshield" describes "it's emblem is an ancient red thorn design. Though it isn't much, it boost *Fire* damage negation." You know, a literal wooden shield (described as so in desc.) Boost fire negation, really? No, there's clearly a magic implication.

[@McCoy3314]

Awesome ability to tell a cohesive narrative while showing empathy for all sides when it’s due. I’m new to this channel, but this video was more similar to my favorite history podcasts then a typical Elden lore video Great job man

[@noamias4897]

I keep waiting for your next banger every time a video comes out. You have a clear, entertaining and thorough way of explaining the lore.

[@adawg3032]

That feeling when you pick up the tooth whip for the first time then realize what it means is a wild feeling

[@randywilliams6248]

I still think that the demigods are technically "plucked" from Marika versus being children. She was one of a mixture, hence plucking pieces out of her as she went, the pieces she wanted to disregard

[@cheesyknees9123]

Why would she want to disregard Godwyn? He was the sacred scion of the Golden Lineage. The Night of the Black Knives and his fate to live-in-death is what caused Marika to initiate The Shattering. Im honestly surprised he wasn’t an empyrean.

[@sinclaire5479]

Scum mage infa goes into detail why Godwyn would have been disregarded, but to sum up he apparently is meant to be her ability to love unconditionally and needed to be disregarded in order for Marika be able to sidestep the gaze of the two fingers and work against them surreptitiously. He was a great boon but also a great weakness with his ability to love and empathize.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

@@sinclaire5479 Then why Godfrey would be their father?

[@HeevaEgo]

@@rafsandomierz5313 adopted parenting can exist. But more likely, if you believe the theory that Marika’s children are LITERALLY aspects of her shadowself, then understanding George Martin’s writing can easily result in the idea that Godfrey is being lied to and manipulated. Kind of like how Robert Baratheon isn’t really the father of Geoffrey etc. Personally, I don’t believe in this theory - that Marika’s children are literal shadows of her self ‘plucked’ (I think they’re more metaphorical shadows to Marika rather than literal aspects) - but I’m just justifying the result of the possibility that this IS a valid take on the lore. And it IS valid and nuanced take on the lore, just not one im personally onboard with

[@noamias4897]

@ I guess according to that theory Godfrey wouldn't be their biological father, just social one

[@vania7988]

Thumbnail is TUFF

[@RhazahLuna]

Your videos so far have been really enjoyable. I'm interested to see what you continue to produce.

[@ienott]

Prepare to Cry

[@your_neko]

I sort of agree with Ymir. From the beginning there was no hope for the Golden Order. It was founded upon too much suffering, and broken from the start. But unlike others who succumbed into madness, Marika tried to erase the horrors of the past and to create a new hope. As a God, she created Erdtree Incantations focused exclusively on healing and protection. She even had Godwyn, a perfect demigod, who probably embodied her desire for cooperation and dignity. She really tried to not become a monster despite what has happened to her. And I respect it.

[@brnecessities3335]

I came for lore, but I ended up getting a short film of Messmer’s end. Loved the whole video! Very good quality and analysis.

[@epiccthulu]

I cannot look at Rykard without thinking “He stuffed himself inside of the god devouring serpent just like his mother was stuffed inside a jar….no…what if the god devouring serpent got its name because Marika and other gods were stuffed into the snake?”

[@docedcrib9079]

It could explain how rykard was able to keep control in a way, because of the melding abilitys of his shaman blood. This might also relate to the godskins wearing the skin of gods as a way to enhance themselfs like grafting does in a sense

[@epiccthulu]

@ the grafting especially seems like a result of shaman heritage

[@sharkt00th666]

I feel this way about Godrick lol! Like wow, he’s actually on the right track? First playthrough he just seems like a lunatic. But with his obsession on grafting onto his harmonious flesh, his scions experiments look a little too much like a refined version of the shaman’s jarred remains, even his kitchens in the fort look eerily similar to the torture factory that is the jar villages with dismembered limbs and gore everywhere. He even says “we will go back to our home bathed in rays of gold” and you eventually think oh he must’ve been talking about returning to leyndell but then you discover the Shaman Village….

[@epiccthulu]

@ I think Rykard and Godrick might represent that split then. Rykard is the process of Marika being jarred within the god devouring serpent alongside other "gods" while Godrick's grafting is about the shaman having control over the added limbs

[@IYENSS]

Man, this is so fucking sad. I love himmmmm! Great vid dude!

[@yungcashregister2253]

That final shot with the ost is just so good

[@mc-inversal7069]

Please keep the thumbnail up - or at least something reminiscent of the fallen angel iconography; it suits this poor, forlorn child, SO damn well lmao

[@jacobe2760]

Very well put, someone that isn’t trying to confuse people with nonsense like messmer is the child of the gloem eyed queen a video that came to the same conclusion as me but you should have mentioned that since radagon was at the divine gate that means he was the first Elden lord and Melina was also born before lord Godfrey became Elden lord

[@mukkah]

19:56 this here, good reason to think why it would've been a whiiile after Marika ascended in Land of Shadow; it would've taken her and she would've wanted to take time to gather and grow a powerful standing force to send forth n destroy the Hornsent. Such a great world they've created ^_^ ~a random canadian subscriber dude

[@VictorIV0310]

I know it’s likely that it remained there for gameplay reasons and to let the player explore it but you’d think that after all the horrid things done to her and her people by the Hornsent, you’d think Marika would’ve ordered Messmer to utterly raze Bonny Billage and its gaol to the ground, reducing it to a burnt, smoking ruin filled with impaled and charred Hornsent corpses. That, or the Hornsent were probably super resilient and just rebuilt the village again and again despite repeated incursions from the crusaders.

[@Stormking66324]

I agree it’s probably for gameplay reasons, but I like the idea of the hornsent rebuilding, as it is one of the only Villages inhabited by living hornsent, not just the shades!

[@mukkah]

18:49 this right here is a REALLY compelling timeline, Messmer staying with the Carians, ooooooh =D Ty for the vid

[@Stormking66324]

Thanks for the feedback! I’ll try and balance it better in future videos. And I’m also from Canada!

[@zephid1868]

Ive consumed so much elden ring content and about lore and theory and i just want to say i loved that.

[@Ceiij]

I will say the curse explains something i immediately noticed in the base game, all marika’s children were cursed but radagan’s were fine. So something definitely cursed her

[@victorprati7908]

Instant like and subbing! Superb quality content right here

[@tastelesshumor8707]

I think the base serpent is the fell God that Marika tried to kill prier to the age of the Erd Tree. We know from the flame of the fell god incantation that "The fell God lives within the eye of the beholder." This is of course referring to the fire giants eye. But I also believe it to be a double entendre. I believe it is also referring to the base serpent behind Messmer's eye. As you pointed out the giants forge which houses the fire of the giants has statues around it depicting snakes. The furnace golems, a creation from Messmer's flame, have the furnace visage as their faces. And the furnace visage is said to depict the fell God that haunts the sagas of the hornsent. The furnace Golems also have depictions of the fire Giants on them.

[@DaiseyIce]

I think the Base Serpent literally being the Fel God (or its avatar) tracks A LOT. In considering the Fel God/Base Serpent to be the direct predecessor to/prior form of Mesmer, it gives insight as to why in the Mtn Tops of Giants (the place where the Fire Giants who served the Fel God were finally defeated) we see those impaling spikes every where, impaling giants and other things alike. Spikes that look almost identical to Mesmer's spear and even more like the spikes that he can make erupt from the ground in his fight with us. This could also be another example of "the betrayal" that we hear about, as well as another example of "strumpet" behavior. Regardless of wether or not the original Fel God destroyed the giants, or it was his reborn form as Mesmer; it would have been only after Marika seduced the serpent that she was able to defeat her enemy, The Fire Giants, by having their own god betray them.

[@saikrish655]

Such an amazing video.... Didn't even realise how time flew while watching.... Much love ❤️ from India

[@BlacklistedSoup]

A well done and accurate lore video? Impossible. Great job on this, I’m really enjoying it so far, the presentation is top notch. Not too sure if I agree with 13:05, I don’t think the Nox ever held the Elden Ring, in actuality I feel they are directly *opposed* to it, instead in search of their own Lord. I’m also not sure if the Hornsent built the Divine Gate to specifically claim the Elden Ring, but rather achieve Godhood/enlightenment. We see this through Miquella using the Divine Gate while the Elden Ring is still present within Marika, Miquella is still able to form his own Order while another is currently active. I actually think the idea of Order being represented by overlapping rings is not fundamental to the existence of the Elden Ring but merely a way it manifests when certain visions are impressed upon it (i.e. the Golden Order). There is also an important notice of an Order being enforced, to quote Miyazaki: “The rings that you’re looking at in the logo are not so much a representation of those factions, as you put it, but more a representation of the law of the world, the rules and the order. This Golden Order is something that the Elden Ring may have once represented, but not directly. It’s more about how you apply those rules and how you enforce them on the physical world and what effects they have on it. So it’s more the influence of these demigods that existed a long time before and how they applied these concepts of order and discipline. That’s what’s being represented by the Elden ring and these overlapping intersecting rings. It gets a little bit more complicated than that, but I’ll leave it there for now.” To put it into a formula, an Empyrean is someone who is born with the ability to create and house (on a divine level) higher ideologies, with the power of Divinity (light from the Greater Will) they are able to form their ideas and impress them upon reality itself, through strength you must enforce these rules and subject others under it, a dramatization of belief in a way-if no one believes in your ideology it has no power, only in the case of Elden Ring its literal. As for the Hornsent, I believe they completely subvert this system in favor of simply worshipping Divinity *itself,* rather than utilizing it. Here’s a few key reasons why: The Hornsent already have an aspect of Divinity within them, it is what grants them their budding horns. This leads them to worship these Divine aspects and thus attempt to amplify and understand them, but it does not lead them to forming these ideas into a higher belief, likely because they are already innate to the current and most intrinsic state of nature-the Crucible. The Hornsent clearly have the power to enforce any Order they chose, though they abide strictly by the Crucible and its nature. Miyazaki even said the Hornsent were the main governing force before the Erdtree in a pre-release interview, a culture of strength and a culture with no Order above the Crucible. The Hornsent are also able to produce Empyreans, we see this directly with the Empyrean Grandam, whose most prominent figure is her horn covered eyes. Eyes in Elden Ring are windows into one’s mind, and further what their belief is. Faith in the Golden Order is marked by Golden eyes, partaking in Dragon Communion grants serpentine red eyes as you delve into draconian nature, the Frenzied Flame is also expressed through the eyes before burning them out entirely, a marking of a completely lacking of mind and individuality. For the Empyrean Grandam it’s no wonder her eyes, a vessel for a possibly new ideology, are grown over by the primal ideology. Finally, the research found at Midra’s Manse could suggest the Hornsent are in fact ignorant of the Empyrean process and the Two Finger’s purpose as a whole. Within Midra’s Manse we can find pieces of the Finger Ruins veiled by yellow cloth scattered alongside the tortured and Frenzied shadows that inhabit the derelict abode, this to me is a key indicator of not only the Manse’s purpose but why also the cause of the inquisition. Midra, either by decree of the Hornsent or by his own behest sought deeper enlightenment through the mystery of the Finger Ruins, through this avenue of discovery did he find the ruinous Frenzied Flame driving him and the occupants of the Manse mad. To note, I’m not sure whether it was merely Midra glancing into the cosmological and being unable to comprehend what he saw driving him insane and causing the Flame to manifest (we see similar happening with the Frenzied dwellers within the Yelough Anix Ruins), or if it’s him literally encountering the Flame and Three Fingers themselves which caused his Frenzy (possibly it was both, or one led to the other, either way we know he encountered the Fingers from the fingerprints in the Manse). Due to this discovery the Hornsent issued an inquisition on his Manse causing a complete sealing off of his woods and a further festering of Frenzy via the torture implemented by the Inquisitors. From this end I believe the Hornsent fully forsook any further investigation of the Finger Ruins as result of the ruinous fate of Midra, causing them to further lack understanding of the “proper” causality of life, divinity, and Order. That’s it for now, excuse any mistakes I’m writing this incredibly late. If you, or anyone else, ends up seeing this I’d be interested in any comments. These are just my ideas and I’m still wrestling with them. Once again, great video, I’d highly recommend. Edit: just finished the video, holy shit man. Amazing work, already loved the first half, the second is simply sublime.

[@Stormking66324]

Hi! I think your explanation of what empyreans are is very interesting! To expand on what I meant about the Nox: they are said to have “betrayed” the greater will, implying to me that at one point they were a part of a larger civilization which served the fingers. The fingerslayer blade is also likely made from the body of a god, and so I think the Nox were traitors within a larger Elden ring civilization. As for the hornsent, they do worship the divinity of the crucible, but I outlined in my last video why I believe the Elden beast was the crucible where all life was once melded together, and so the highest form of divinity for the hornsent. If you’re interested you can check that video out (the one on spirals) I’d be curious to hear your opinion. Thanks for the kind words!

[@BlacklistedSoup]

@@Stormking66324 Crucible is the Elden Beast? Ok Byron, time to take your meds.

[@Stormking66324]

@@BlacklistedSoup 👁️👁️

[@jeremyshulenburg2976]

Great video, love any little bit of lore or new takes I can get because LORD KNOWS miyazaki won't tell us lol

[@BlueMagicite]

Thematically, I love the idea of Messmer as Marika's firstborn considering he is the older brother to Melina who has her own odd history if you believe her to be the spiritual remains of the Gloam-eyed Queen. It makes us, Marika's most recent chosen successor, facing off with her firstborn all the more dramatic considering there's a lot about Messmer being treated as if he's the bastard child of her and Radagon even prior (or during) her time with Godfrey. I just wish there was a bit more solid info on that idea of Messmer being her firstborn instead of it being moreso "felt" rather than detailed. Oh well, that's Fromsoft for you.

[@MilesRavis]

one note: i don't understand why you think the hornsents would put a curse only upon 2 of all Marika's children ? why only Mogh and Morgott ? in fact we have a proof in the dlc that this is not the case, they did put a curse upon everyone and each of her children: spirit NPC of the scorched ruins: "I know... All your resentment lingers yet... The raw stuff from which I shall surely forge a curse. Upon the bastard Messmer's head. Upon Marika's children each and all." each one of her children have a specific curse, and now we know why (as for Godwyn i invite you to look closely at the malformed dragon helm and ask yourself why and how the sentinels had this epiphany specifically)

[@bilalblue8688]

This is a solid and fun theory that I think fits wonderfully

[@DaAggeAgneta]

this was a really good video. the ending got to me.

[@feshpince]

Wanton isn't pronounced like Won-ton (the Chinese food). The 'o' is pronounced more like a 'u'. Not a long 'u' like in "tune", but a short 'u' like in "fun".

[@gamerkarl1]

Another Stormking W

[@redx3009]

Great video exploring Marika's past. I disagree on some aspects, but we got a conscience narrative in how Messmer is truly a tragic figure in all of this. I have noticed that Marika's shaman youth could be despicted from the Nascent Butterfly. We do not get Miquella items by crafting them and we use a budding horn in tandem with them, not to mention that they are a rare drop from Ancestral Follower shamans. Anyways I am a firm believer that Marika is the GEQ and that the cycle of revenge between Marika and the Hornsent is the original sin.

[@vasylpark2149]

traitorous means that they were once aligned but betrayed them.

[@copyninja8756]

Just a heads up, gaol is pronounced like jail.

[@Stormking66324]

Lmao whoops thanks

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Because meaning of gaol is the same as of word jail.

[@Stormking66324]

Hi everyone, I hope you enjoyed the video! If you did, consider leaving a like or a comment letting me know what topics interest you the most! It really helps the channel grow.

[@FoxBatinaHat]

(The serpent god) might be Messmer's father? / Eiglay / And he was abandonned or betrayed. Same as Maliketh, Rennalah etc... Marika is (the seductress), in this version of her story in Elden Ring. The land of Shadows are secrets and information Marika does not wish to see the light.

[@Vugen18]

The crucible and Marika/shamans have something in common. Both where mixing life.

[@blakebailey22]

I'm convinced Marika had Messmer and Melina with Eiglay.

[@rexwest4532]

It’s clearly Radagon

[@sleepingArtist]

Bro dropped a banger thinking im not gonna subscribe

[@sharkt00th666]

Marika being the only successful Jar Saint would fill some gaps, no? as far as why the hornsent had to have accepted her on some level, how everyone found out she was a particularly special shaman being an emperyan, and why she would’ve been able to leave Bonny Village while her kin didn’t, maybe even explains how she Radagon are merged into one etc. it also plays on the words of Leda, the hornsent “were never Saints, just happened to be on losing side” like how Miyazaki likes with dialogues. She meant one thing, but the reality is the hornsent had to create their own saint, through the jarring process. Which obviously ended up being their undoing. So, it’s like she was already this holy figure to the Lands Between before godhood, which iirc explains why there’s certain old statues of her in base game & SOTE must’ve been created before her queendom/conquests. Very much liked the rest of the video though and the thumbnail is especially striking ❤

[@coroarc8423]

Well done!

[@writerblocks9553]

Awesome stuff!! It seems like Marika was cursed herself 😂

[@DjDolHaus86]

I think the order of things is: Marika gives birth to Messmer. Messmer is tainted by Marikas burning hatred of the Hornsent Godfrey is the lord of the Hornsent (not every Hornsent has horns) Marika seduces Godfrey to ascend to godhood. Melina is the first child of Marika/Godfrey Melina is also tainted by Marikas burning hatred of the Hornsent Godfrey/Marika conquer the rest of the lands between Marika sends Messmer back to enact her vengeance, her rage subsides Godwyn born with the taint of deathblight (All children represent a threat to the eternal age of the erdtree) Hornsent curse Marika Messmer exiled, Melina (GEQ) killed (or powers sealed away) by Maliketh War with dragons Mohg and Morgott born with omen curse (hornsent traits) Radagon splits off to try and sidestep the curse by having children with Renala Malania/Miquella born to Marika/Radagon with more curses Ranni has Godwynn killed to destabilise the lineage (who's next in line for the throne) The shattering occurs as a final attempt to maintain Marikas eternal empire Everything after that is just a power struggle between the various factions (still not sure where Godefroy and Godrick fit in, something to do with Godfrey's adventure in Morne castle)

[@tigerchild3676]

Amazing video on Messmer. What is the ost at 20:20?

[@Stormking66324]

The Demon’s Souls remake Ost - Origins!

[@Zzzooooppp]

Theory: Godfrey was the Hornsent lord, who grew in size and lost his horns by consuming the dew of the Greattree. His trueborn sons both show horns, and cannot any longer consume the Greattree dew. The omen twins older brother was not born of Godfrey, but rather is an asexual offspring of Marikas who inherited her pure Golden hair and her pure melding ability(two traits his Godfrey Bros didn’t inherit)

[@Ceiij]

Why do we believe melina is the child of marika? I thought she was born when the rune of death was removed, and reborn when ranni stole it.

[@Stormking66324]

She references her mother who gave her her purpose at the base of the erdtree, and acts as Marika’s mouthpiece throughout the game. Here relation to destined death as you put it is interesting though, she had to become “burned and bodiless” somehow!

[@joshuacollins9648]

Truly incredible video. I'd like your opinion on something: who is radagon? Do you think he's essentially just Marika's version of St. Trina? Did he physically split from Marika when he was with Rennala? I'd just like to hear what you think, I love the ideas you put out.

[@Stormking66324]

Thanks! I definitely think the Radagon/Marika duality is analogous to Miquella/St.Trina, and yes I believe they were one being which split into two (as it would be weird if Marika was just absent the entire time Radagon was with Rennala). I do think Radagon represents something very different than St. Trina though. Instead of love, he is Marika’s unyielding belief in the golden order, which is why he ends up opposing her when she shatters the Elden Ring.

[@lloydfrazier3682]

I know how it's spelled. But its pronounced JAIL... like siofra is pronounced SHEfra, and scadu is pronounced SHADOW

[@virmirus]

Commenting for the algorithm 👏🏼

[@TheUnKnowNKazadiel]

Messmer's Not a demigod, fwiw, and Neither is Melina. He's simply "Demi-god Adjacent."

[@xsubzerox3412]

I dont think marika would straight away seal away the hornsent once she became god, what is a god without any followers. Godfrey's strongest and probably oldest warriors are the crucible knights and the erdtree in their weapons description says that the primordial form of the erdtree was the crucible. We even to this day still find broken stakes of marika in belurat. All this is to say that she made peace with them in her early days and did right by them in making their age of the crucible. Thats what makes the betrayal all the more bitter in the end.

[@phinicebear6781]

Hey so um, this is utterly perfect. The speculation, the storytelling, everything is genuinely amazing. 🩷

[@cezo8838]

What’s the OST that starts around 8:32? It’s so cool

[@Stormking66324]

@@cezo8838 Maiden Astraea’s theme from the Demon’s Souls remake!

[@cezo8838]

@ thx bud, I knew I heard that song before but I couldn’t tell where it was from. Something curious I noticed is that the intro of that theme is pretty similar to the Scadu Altus theme, at least to me hahah

[@zacharylank3063]

DAMN

[@HeyGuy4321]

Excellent 👌 Video. Damn good i stopped watching my movie to see your video first!

[@Sizzlesubs]

19:21 I need to know what song this is!

[@Stormking66324]

Maiden Astraea from the Demon’s souls remake! The original theme is also slaps

[@christopherosborne3480]

Its difficult to hear you over the loud music.

[@CountChudula]

Can I get a link to that thumbnail? It's FIRE!

[@JKurayami]

I want to know why the stakes of Marika only have one single braid on the right side. there isn't a half chopped on her left. She has all of her hair pulled into a single braid. I also want to know why Marika waited until after the night of Black Knives which was late into the multiple ages she was part of, to then besiege and then seal away the Lands of Shadow. I also want to know why the Omen were cursed since The Twins would have been born before all of that took place. Their shoddy attempt at gimmicking us into seeking never to be confirmed lore made of fragments, to keep up game discussion, has really been burning out my mood. We'll all forget about all of this once the new FS IP comes out and this all gets put into cold storage.

[@KommissarAlexander]

1) Marika's other braid is an item we can find at Shaman's village. She left it as an offering for the Grandmother 2) The night of black knifes happened after the crusade had started. Radagon was Lord then 3) The Omen Twins were cursed by the Hornsent due to their inprisionment and Marika's betrayal, not the crusade, which hadn't yet happened. There's much to criticise fromsoft lore's for, but all your questions have been answered in this case.

[@eren5148]

@@KommissarAlexander the omen curse was actually a response to the crusade , see the dialog of the hornsent grandam when you try to kill her.

[@JKurayami]

@ In the statues after wards she still has 2 braids, just one is cut half off. In the Stakes, there is only 1 braid, the half chopped braid on the left is gone completely, and all of her hair is bundled into one. The fact it takes place so late brings into question why there is no evidence or mention of these lands that got sealed away. It also doesn't answer the Omen question because then the question is, why was Godwyn not also cursed. Which then goes into "Is Godwyn really a son of Godfrey then?" And thus the broken unanswered mess becomes apparent.

[@Eldagusto]

But morghott and mohg aren’t of the Radagon pairing so there goes that theory

[@Stormking66324]

In my eyes they were cursed by the hornsent whereas the children of Marika/Radagon are cursed because of their parentage.

[@Eldagusto]

@ oh I simply meant those whose names begin with M being the children of Marika and Radagon. I agree the omens are the curse of the hornsent.

[@Stormking66324]

@@Eldagusto Oooh I see, yeah fair point it is strange they don’t follow the G-naming convention despite being in the golden line. Perhaps it is because they were born cursed with horns that Marika did not want them to associated with this holy lineage?

[@JimbobG.A.D]

GG

[@mohammedaljanahi]

I think Mesmer was the bastard son of marika and the snake lord and when she rose to godhod the divinity gate opened an access to the land between and she left it, Mesmer never saw his mother as growing up but countiued her vengeance and was surprised when a tarnished was sent to annilate him

[@michaeldean1924]

16:59 or that Marika did not birth Messmer and Melina 👀 but that she stole them away from their family (the GEQ) who was slain by her…

[@ASIRA89]

very good video. The only part that still seems ambigious to me is the snake skin. I got 2 ideas that may have some merit. Your take makes just as much sense to me, if not more. But maybe you'll find it interesting. idea 1) the snake/skin could be seen as a seducer who took advantage of Marika, melded harmoniously with her, and was reborn in form of Mesmer's curse. Marika was afraid of him, because he didn't truly feel like her offspring, he was more an offshoot of the Snake, than an offshoot of her. In a way, Marika gave birth to an incarnation of "sin", after being corrupted by it. idea 2) the one that took advantage wasn't the snake, but Marika. We see how the shamans underground live in harmony with animals. They follow them and listen to them sing. So what if a shaman, Marika, were to take the life of an animal and meld with it, not harmoniously, but violently/disharmoniously? She gained the power to take revenge, but by "breaking with the shamans ways" she was cursed. The life which she took, the snake, represents the curse. It was reincarnated in Mesmer in it's most direct form, because Mesmer was a "virgin birth". By taking the snakes life, the shaman Marika became a god and was able to produce the offshoot Mesmer by herself.

[@Mar032891]

Your thumbnail caught my interest your monotone and awful audio quality made me immediately lose it. Good luck to you and your channel sir 0:02

[@Stormking66324]

My MacBook Air microphone definitely isn’t doing me any favours lol, glad you like the thumbnail though!

[@Soul_Of_A_GracelessTarnished]

​@Stormking66324 That's not bad for a macbook air mic actually. Mine is way worse 😅. It's definitely worth investing in good audio equipment and editing skills. (Not too expensive either)

[@diptube6563]

I wonder if Marika may have been Nanaya

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Uh no it doesn't make sense as corpse of Nanya is what holds the torch of frenzy.

[@diptube6563]

@@rafsandomierz5313 you're right

[@NeverUseAnApostrophe]

It's pronounced Re-lawn-uh, not whatever you said.

[@zachariahjonahmaldonado5897]

Drivel. You aren't even conjecturing, you're just making things up. Radagon wasn't bonded with Marika yet, he was warlording around in Liurnia. Messmer was clearly written after the remembrance for Malenia was written, and you're presuming Marika's children being cursed is literal when their 'curses' are much more obviously explainable (Miquella leaks rejuvenating dew, hence the eternal youth, Malenia was possessed by an outer god).

[@aintnoslice3422]

Messmer is aware of the tarnished despite being confined to the realm of shadow so the crusade has to have occurred some time after Marika sent Godwyn and his kin away. Personally, I don't like how late in the timeline its implied to be: how was an event and characters who existed alongside the golden order for so long so completely covered up and expunged from the Lands Between? Why did Marika wait so long to finish off the hornsent? My personal headcannon is that the crusade was one of Marika's first [secret] acts after ascending to godhood, and occurred either just before or concurrent with the war against the giants (while she directed all eyes towards the mountaintops, she directed her secret first born to carry out her true intentions, then covered up the whole thing after they had departed). Just makes for a tighter narrative that way imo (although it creates its own problems fitting Rellana and the Carians into the picture).

[@jesuslejesus9051]

😊 👍

[@Snoike]

Messmer did nothing wrong