Elden Ring Lore - Messmer's Remembrance

Hey everyone. This is a pretty quick Fear the Old Lore pointing out the differences between the English and Japanese versions of Messmer's Remembrance, otherwise known as the Remembrance of the Impaler.
tl;dw: There's no mention of Marika being afraid in the JP version of the Remembrance, making her motivations for sealing Messmer within the Land of Shadow more ambiguous.
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[@muramasa870]

Maybe in japanese it's literally saying that the snake was hidden behind the eye of grace because we see it after messmer literally removes his eye in the cutscene

[@agopessimist1335]

Can you do a short for Romina’s Remembrance? With her, it implies that she either created the Scarlet Rot, or that there was some precursor to it and she molded it into the Rot we see today. Really makes me wonder about the difference between her and the Lake of Rot, or when it was sealed

[@LastProtagonist]

Yes, it's on my list

[@agopessimist1335]

@@LastProtagonistVery much appreciate it, and all the hard work you do!

[@padrenuestre]

Yep thank you for pointing this out. I have no idea why the English version added fear to it. Like you said Marika's reasons for hiding Messmer are indeed ambiguous.

[@DrnMontemayor]

I don't get the inconsistency of bringing up 1.0 if we don't count cut content, but we also see in the DLC how Marika used those eyes in other people, not just Messmer, through the Iris of Grace items, and we see in other characters how it changes them. Weird to see such selectively isolated content.

[@FaeQueenCory]

I think the irises are similar but not what was put in Messmer. I'm confident that Messmer had a Soreseal in him. (Or maybe it was Scarseal... I can never remember which is which... But they're eyeballs regardless.)

[@LeggoMyGekko]

I absolutely count cut content, but it’s better if there’s in-game evidence that supports the conclusions one could come to based on said cut content. Personally I believe that nothing that made it to development, like game files and events and full models, could be that far off from the developers intended vision for the game. If it exists to the point we can find it in the game files and recreate it using mods and cheats, it almost certainly has some bearing on the official game. Most things are removed because it’s too cut and dry, or because it’s not the quality they want. And this is a personal thing, but I care much more about the early stages of development, than what ends up getting published. I want to see story boards, concept art, read early item descriptions, see cut characters and quests and items. That’s the closest thing to the developer’s original vision for the game we’ll ever get, raw, uncensored creativity.

[@LastProtagonist]

Because one can argue that if all they have is the Elden Ring disc and no internet to update their game that their experience playing the game is as valid as anyone else's. It's not as though this never saw the light of day, so I think it deserves more mentioning than something that was never released to be taken at the viewer's individual discretion

[@Writh811]

@@FaeQueenCory I agree with you. The Irises don't replace the eye. You put them on your eye like a contact lenses as described in their lore. More over the effects of the Iris's are temporary. The Grace one specifically refers to its effect as a "fleeing blessing." The scar and soreseals last line of lore emphasizes their lingering and lifelong nature. The SORESEAL specifically identifies as being like a gnawing curse with no deliverance; feels like foreshadowing now lol.

[@FaeQueenCory]

I'm not sure if the grace=Erdtree can be assumed, as the Erdtree predates Radagon's "conquest" of Liurnia... But Messmer and Radahn were childhood friends. Plus the Minor Erdtree incantation implies that the Shaman had grace but lacked the order of the Greater Will. So I think the notion that grace originated solely with the Erdtree is just propaganda for the Golden Order religion.

[@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue]

I think I missed where messmer and radahn were friends; where did you see that?

[@Nemo12417]

It seems so painfully obvious that Radagon is Messmer's father, and yet, do we have any definitive proof? His and Melina's birth were definitely unlike those of Miquella and Malenia.

[@cool2314]

@@Nemo12417 i dont think radagon is messmers father because unlike malenia, miquella, radahn, ranni and rykard who are constantly said to be radagons kids, he is never mentioned in shadow of the erdtree, so i think messmers father is some one else who we have not met.

[@spacenaves]

I may be stupid, but is Messmer not simply... A direct child of the serpent? As it's been said, he shares no ties to Radagon other than a hair color, and it seems a little weird that only a single, specific child of hers would be "cursed" in a revenge. The story trailer speaks of "a seduction and a betrayal", whilst showing a naked Marika stealing Grace out of a fleshy thing which I can only assume is the Base Serpent itself. I'd always thought of that as the main reason for her secreting Messmer away - so that it doesn't come to public that her godhood had its roots in her getting freaky with the very "wicked thing" the Order reviled so much.

[@WAR3600]

What about the mention of "original sin" on that same remembrance? Is it present on the japanese description as well?

[@Xgenstudioz777]

Yep はじまりの罪と、忘れ得ぬ憎しみと共に (With the sin of the beginning and the unforgettable hatred)

[@porkwhisperer3050]

That first roll had to be the last possible frame lol. Did you actually just out position it?

[@shyyokai]

LETS GO GARY!!

[@Deadpcks_]

I thought bro was gonna show us the drop option

[@Duas-sj4vr]

I wonder the japanese text of Bayle's Tyranny because it's interesting from my opinion and I want to know, of If anyone knows, tell me please. 🙏

[@WoodElfhater-po3vi]

I have a quick question about some proper noun usage in the base game. As you know giza means jagged and is used in katakana, I was wondering if Giza's wheel was meant to be read as the Jagged wheel rather than as a proper noun. It would make since if the notorious jagged wheel was the weapon of choice of the jagged inquisitor but I would love your opinion.

[@careyraymartell]

I will bet Marika's braid is also mistranslated. And other items related to Messmer including his incantations Probably secret scroll too

[@muramasa870]

What about the death knight's set translation comparison next🙏

[@25lighters91]

Channel Yoshimitsu is the OG of western and japanese lore meanig comparison's.

[@7thson855]

Will you make a video about Outer God Heirloom? I think it is one of the most ambiguous items in the DLC as the description has some correlation to the Mother of Truth and the blood demons (which are also the enemies guarding it), but it depicts a figure very resemblant of Godwyn, which has nothing to do with Blood.

[@LastProtagonist]

I talk about it in my video on the "Jarsent," the one about Marika, the shamans of the miko village, and the Hornsent!

[@7thson855]

@@LastProtagonist Oh, I hadn't seen it yet! I'll watch it right now

[@nightscout9979]

The Japanese version seems to leave Marika's reason for abandoning Messmer more ambiguous, unless another item description and/or line of dialogue indicates that there was still a fear of the abyssal serpent, Messmer's flame, or both. It seems like Marika outright didn't care for Messmer or disdained him rather than feeling threatened, so perhaps she was even more of an unfit mother than first thought. I have a request. Early fan translations for Light of Miquella seemed to believe that the JP text implies that Radahn was the person Miquella couldn't embrace, and thus Miquella's lord would never stand alongside him. However, other fan translations have come closer to what the English text says, with Miquella regarding the Tarnished as an inherent mark against Miquella and his lord being all the world needs or should have. Which do you think is closer to being accurate? If it's the latter, I wonder why Miquella thinks the Tarnished is the only person he can't accept when he inherently will have to reject and kill Marika too, thus making it a minimum of two people he can't accept. Miquella's grab attack can also allow him to "accept" the Tarnished if he lands it twice without the effects of the first grab being countered too.

[@LastProtagonist]

With context it's pretty clear it's talking about the Tarnished who wouldn't be embraced. ミケラは、全てを受け容れ、抱こうと望み だがひとつだけ、そうできぬものを知っていた 絶対の神も、その王も 決して並び立つことはない Miquella wished to embrace all, to accept everything, however, he came to know one (person) he couldn't (embrace). An absolute god and its lord would never stand in line.

[@nightscout9979]

@@LastProtagonist Thanks for the reply! I don't see how those lines provide a context to help narrow things down though. "Stand in line" could mean that the god and the lord aren't in line with one another, meaning that they're at odds. "In line" could also mean something like they're standing in a line of people or succession and someone's ahead of them, as though they're of lower priority.