Elden Ring PVP: Are Blues the Good Guys?

[@zbyniuzbyniuzbyniu]

Respect for not participating in organized 3v1 gank against bad red man while making of this video

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I'm a red through and through these days. But honestly, I did try to get footage as a blue for the video but I never got summoned. I never do it so I never fully embraced just how useless it is mechanically. You basically have to leave it on 24/7 and always be ready to be summoned but also be ready to never actually get summoned.

[@TheSilvantor]

​@@emotionaljonxvxfun fact, the blue cipher ring works the exact same way as the finger items. You you can turn it off and back on to refresh your position in the pool and ping the server again, making you much more likely to get summoned.

[@Mischievous_Moth]

@@emotionaljonxvx Was hilarious one time when I forgot I have the ring turned on and got pulled out of farming runes into PvP and got absolutely eaten alive because I was unprepared for PvP.

[@kaso236]

Be quick in the menus and you're fine I still have difficulties with that​@@Mischievous_Moth

[@angusmacleod8166]

I desperately wish elden ring allowed people to indict me for invading and send blues after memento my world. So much more fun than the taunter tongue. I mean come on im clearly a bad guy i deserve it.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, I want to be pursued for my crimes. I want to take on the challenge of getting invaded not only by other invaders, but by those looking to punish me for invading.

[@angusmacleod8166]

@@emotionaljonxvx Our battle will be legendary! .jpeg

[@kimlee6643]

6:59 Here's the extra sad part: I noticed in one of Moxie Watt's most recent vids (of all places lol) that there were two cut items, "Broken Finger Stalker" and "Petition for Help". The latter summons a "Stalker" that is meant to deal with a "Broken Finger" invader who has betrayed the Finger Reader by transgressing as such. (Maybe this is old news I just forgot about after two years.) So they DID have some sort of plan for this stuff lore-wise. And then, for whatever reason, it just became watered down DS3. The same DS3 many people agreed was watered down DS2. Fantastic.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

It's just another thing in the seemingly endless pile of "could have been great" ideas that FromSoft threw out the window for whatever reason. It's something that makes me so frustrated with all the open world mechanics. I'd trade the overworld travel for a consistent, reliable, repeatable, varied multiplayer experience in a heartbeat. Maybe in another 6 years we'll get the game we crave.

[@kimlee6643]

@@emotionaljonxvx Ya know, I've actually wondered if, internally, From felt like they failed to reach a lot of dev goals and then decided to ship their game in lowkey patchwork mode, making sure it works and you can get to the credits while having a unique experience, but that's it. All whilst being aware they ultimately failed to create the game they imagined back in 2016 when DS3 was fully out the door. Bizarre as that may seem to millions of ER paramours. This is why I think that when people asked Miyazaki why he thought ER sold like CoD he seemed awkwardly reticent and resorted to some sort of "I dunno. Maybe cuz Martin. We don't know. Doesn't matter going forward". He apparently refused, through and through, to say something like "because we made a great game", much less "the game we wanted to make". When accepting the GOTY award, he took the time to say something like "there were things we couldn't do". Ah, curious thing to state when awarded THE award. In all likelihood, Miyazaki has way too much pride to debase himself simply because there's a spotlight on him. On the other hand, we've caught him saying like twice now that he is endeared people still praise BB and speak of re-releases, as they, the devs, think it's a special title too. What a sentiment to have in the wake of ER, right? I dunno. Just sayin.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

@@kimlee6643 It's certainly a possibility. I'd love to consider Elden Ring a sort of mutation of the genre rather than a deliberate product but I don't like to assume things work how I want them to because I'm constantly disappointing myself that way. I've always taken the interviews and Miyazaki's demeanor to be that of someone who is deeply critical of their own work so when they suddenly have loads of surface-level but infatuated praised heaped onto them, they shy away because they can only see their work as they made it, whereas everyone else sees it as they play it. Something I find common with artists from all walks, but we'll likely never know the truth.

[@kimlee6643]

@@emotionaljonxvx True and truer. I remember Ratatoskr being mildly upset that Miyazaki has grown to be somewhat embarrassed of Demon's Souls (lol). Who knows how the man truly feels about ER.

[@Alenbh4g]

Would’ve been cool if Blues were somehow tied into the lore of the Confessors. Tarnished hunters who sought out and killed “those who strayed from grace” i.e Volcano Manor Recusants or Mohgwyns Bloody Fingers, two factions who are as blasphemous and heretical to the golden order as you can get.

[@CerealKiller]

I think the whole "I'm helping the Host defeat the big bad Red man!" is just massive righteous cope for people who don't want to admit that being a Blue in this game is the equivalent of being an Opt-In Ganker who tries too hard to LARP as an Invander.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, I think people just like to punch down where possible (especially against someone who can't get them back) and being a blue in Elden Ring is about as safe as PVP gets. You're likely to never even get summoned!

[@BLK_MN]

I doubt it, most blues look like people that don't even know how they got summoned or why they're blue. I see this argument a lot, it's more applicable to Dark Souls than in Elden Ring.

[@illwillpress100]

What if signing up to be a hunter meant you could be solo invaded? I think that would be cool. Makes sense in that the invaders would be hunting the hunters. And it would be easier than using the tongue.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, anything to improve activity would be a win in my book.

[@KantaCrowe]

Elden ring should have 100% had an invasion area and a boss that can allow in invaders too. Those moments are soooooo good and make playthroughs so much fun and its a shame they are missing

[@ironymaiden1089]

Bruh, you did not just put your invader footage with flipped colors 💀🔵

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I have no idea what you're talking about (but for real, I tried to get blue footage for hours and just never got summoned)

[@oldmanwinter0066]

Step 1 Keep that blue ring on all the time Step 2 Lure pve to attack host and help invaders. Also block ladders etc Step 3 Profit

[@painted_aim573]

Easy fix just make it so that the blue spirits are no longer blue … but purple. Make it a 50/50 so that neither you nor the red can really 100% say that that guy is going to help you allow them to fight the boss just like madness spirits in ds3 the blue ring is already opt in anyways and there’s already help on their side in spades through spirits and rune arcs. Allow rune arcing to open up the world to invasions. One of my favorite interactions with this system is when I’m running around getting items or farming and being embered brought somebody to break the cycle and provide a fresh strong encounter that I could run back to a more open area and have the occasional duel lol

[@fredbyoutubing]

Depends. When I'm blue it's just so I can take a multiplayer spot, watch the fight unfold and cheer for the red.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I tried so hard to get footage of essentially that but I didn't get summoned in the hours I tried. Sometimes I'll just leave the ring on but every now and again it'll interrupt me and I get unreasonably annoyed. Downsides of a tertiary passive system; you never get to choose when you play.

[@fredbyoutubing]

​@@emotionaljonxvx I understand that being interrupted can be annoying but It most often happens to me while I'm seeking multiplayer. What I'm really hoping for in the DLC is an other type of item to get summoned to help invaders who are in a 1v3 situation. Btw, Changing the hue of an invasion clip to get more footage is very clever.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

@@fredbyoutubing It really comes down to my impatience. When I'm playing a game, I wanna play, not wait to play. Blues really need an active mechanic, similar to invasions. They had outright invasions in previous games, but a territory protection or something would go a long way toward fixing blues. And thanks, I thought it was funny.

[@_E135_]

@@emotionaljonxvxthat is what made me dislike the Spears of the Church covenant in DS3, most players just go offline to kill halflight, activity’s trash

[@Malisteen]

until you get to multiplayer, elden ring really is one of my favorite souls games. if only it had real covenants, a functional colosseum, a good invasion system.... covenants especially, there are so many groups in the lore that would make a great foundation for proper covenants...

[@ScoutScoutScoutScoutScout]

Honestly, if they added back in solo invasions as a hunter mechanic with the sin system that would be huge step forward for multiplayer in ER

[@videocrowsnest5251]

I am starting to wonder...why is it the Elden Ring multiplayer has all these weird issues? Down to the Greater Runes. What was the game development logic behind all these choices? Short of getting told, there is no way to know. But I wonder if it was a choice done on purpose. This game is a great point to jump into Fromsoft games, and is very beginner-friendly in many ways. So the choice to tie invader's hands behind their back was done more as an intended thing. I am no game developer, and I don't have Fromsoft in my ear to tell me why, but I have some baseless speculation as food for thought to mutter: Firstly, it would ensure veterans do not just rampage all over the newbs ad nauseam. Secondly, it on paper should give veterans a good challenge to overcome due to handicaps. Thirdly, it ensures less people get spooked off by pvp elements. Allowing more people to have their cake and eat it too, which draws them in to the game. Fourth, the pvp elements suffered from not enough time to properly implement them and to balance test them. Biting off a bit more than the Fromsoft team could chew. So these bandage solutions were put in place to overcompensate them in the safer direction, which is to say, hosts getting favored. One invader rage-quitting is one invader who rage-quit - likely a series vet who will be back anyway the next time something is on the table. A new player though is far riskier. Lose them and they likely won't come back. They are new money, while the vets are old already mostly secured money. If Elden Ring was designed from the get-go to be a good jumping on point and to draw in as big of a crowd of new fans as possible, then the reason pvp suffers seems logically to be a game design choice. Hosts being more valuable than return client invaders. Invaders want the challenge. Most hosts would be newbs, and their ability to handle pressure is far lower. Thus, the logic is there, and on paper it sounds like solid reasoning. The advantages of the newbs become the challenge of the vets. Assuming a majority of invaders are vets or experienced players, of course. However! Then we run into the main culprit. The biggest obstacle. The real ball drop in my opinion. The matchmaking system. And its inability to deliver what it is supposed to do. Not to mention how the logic that is sound on paper to give newbs rope to challenge vets breaks as soon as we enter the domain of mid-tier players. Who are good enough to gank squad lone invaders with impute, and know to use the fact they have a lot of rope to their advantage. Which seems to be the major weakness of this development style's choice. Even more so because if the whole idea was to preserve and bring in the most at the cost of the few, then those gank squads are still three people against one invader. The three gankers are thus more value than the lone invader. Which is a critical weakness in this sort of set up. As it would focus on the extreme polar opposite ends and neglect the middle, where most players end up in any way, causing structural strain and an eventual collapse.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, the whole idea of them trying to appeal to new players is a pretty strong argument for why series veterans tend to be so frustrated with Elden Ring. Anything not targeted at appealing to one audience is going to annoy that audience if they still engage with it. It feels terrible to play a game that felt like, at it's core, wasn't meant for me when every other game in the series has been something so uniquely catered to my interests. I get appealing to new players but doing it at the cost of alienating old players is probably financially sound enough to just let the pieces fall where they may. 10/10 reviews with no notes will pour in again and again, so there's no sense in trying to please the most discerning or picky crowd. I'm sure it's not all that bleak and I think FromSoft wants everyone to enjoy the game at every level but with limited development time and other resources, priorities will get set and multiplayer is set low.

[@Meowthix]

@@emotionaljonxvx This is just my personal take and i could very much so be wrong. I was never big into DS pvp to begin with. It always felt more added after the fact which makes sense. I dont think the games were really designed with pvp intent in mind it was kind of just added after to add some spice and cater to a wider audience. Most balancing around it seems to really target whats problematic in the game itself. Speaking more about Elden Ring here. As a result unfortunately pvp will be lacking. It just wasn't the primary system as i imagine a majority of players tend to play offline/solo or at most with a friend or two not really wanting to interact with invasions. Put it simply. Dark Souls is a single player game with pvp tacked on afterwards. It wont be a great system even if people find it enjoyable. It's just not the focus of the game itself even if there are arguments for what it adds.

[@genghiskhan6809]

@@MeowthixYou are correct in that the souls series was designed first for pve with pvp as a grafted on addition, but what they quickly found was that once the pve was exhausted what really kept the games alive was the pvp.

[@soundandfury9641]

I think the reason the blues are so horrendous in elden ring is because in dark souls blues were at their best when they could protect a newer solo host that stood no chance against an invader and actually change the course of a fight. Now there’s no solo hosts. Blues are just gankers with no friends, they protect nobody.

[@SV-X]

9:52 Ahh, the much needed black and red cipher rings...

[@emotionaljonxvx]

IF ONLY

[@pressxfordoubt-x]

The most pathetic thing about blues is they always have a team mate. Always.

[@Munnwort]

i've really enjoying your videos man, binge watched everything these past few days

[@HalozillaEX]

But Jon! How can the poor widdle host ever hope to defeat the big bad red man, with his two overleveled summons and double the healing flasks, if he doesn’t also have an endless supply of meat shields being summoned to defend his honor?

[@emotionaljonxvx]

When you’re right you’re right. I’ll rescind my condemnation.

[@ismaellucas960]

Brother, your videos have a lot of quality compared to many other KZbin videos, they always make me reflect on my favorite mechanics (although I do pvp of dark souls 1, 2 and 3 because they are better in all aspects than elden ring)

[@rndhelpme9748]

The 🐐 is back at it again. We thank you for our daily bread Jon.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Feast, my children, and grow.

[@Erdbeer_Klumpen]

Blues are simply Gankers without friends. Makes them the worst of them all. Therefore i‘ve blue on all my invasion Characters active to always help invader with: a) blocking the spot, that no gank blue can join anymore b) healing Invader with warming stones c) jumping into death to deliver Invader free estus

[@TheLastFallenHero]

As a badredman who part times as a blue to “know the enemy”, I can count on one hand the number of times I was actually needed. It’s always a gank

[@rancidavocado2166]

Varre should have given us a ring to invade with fellow bloody fingers

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Co-op invasions would make my life

[@BitterSteel69]

Despite From demonstrating themselves to be a highly competent developer over the years, the disappointing reality is that they likely just had their hands full simply making the PvE experience of ER come together. It’s understandable considering that they were dabbling in open world design for the first time, and honestly it’s a miracle that they did as well as they did on their first attempt. That said, it still doesn’t assuage the disappointment that most souls veterans experienced regarding the multiplayer. What makes it even more disappointing is that a game of Elden Ring’s scope and design could have allowed for so much innovation and improvement with the souls multiplayer experience. A perfect example is Fia’s Champions and the Knights of the Greatjar, which is such a cool and undervalued mechanic. Being able to fight an infinite variety of difficult AI NPCs created from actual player builds is genius. It provides a way for new players to learn the fundamentals of PvP in the best way possible without fighting an actual player. It provides a way for players without online access to experience PvP, which is far better than nothing. It could provide the basis for new arena modes that let you go up against a gauntlet of NPC invaders or a type of hoard mode with leaderboards. And what did From do with this mechanic? It’s basically a footnote that appears briefly in 2 boss fights, with no way to replay it without going into NG+ or save scumming. There just seems to be so much wasted potential. Here’s to hoping that FromSoft will learn from the ER dev cycle and make a more complete souls game that fully realizes the PvP system. As crazy as it sounds, I think if FromSoft made a soulslike that was primarily multiplayer/PvP focused and actually took the time to balance the game and fix the poor net code they would have a huge hit on their hands, akin to Overwatch and other PvP focused games. It would be completely unique and could easily get a lot of interest, considering that the only things most people don’t like about souls PvP is the net code and poor balancing. The PvP system at its core is lightning in a bottle, and if they don’t realize that and bring it to its full potential someone else will eventually.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I think every day about how I just want a live service game that's also Dark Souls and they can have all my money and I'd play it every day forever. I don't even like the model, but the idea of getting consistent and reliable PVP on a larger scale is so appealing that it keeps me up at night. I need a version of these games to let me fight many people at the same time, with organized teams and all the build diversity. I get they probably have no interest in that sort of thing, but even shoehorning it in to a slightly greater extent than Dark Souls 3 could go a long way. Gimme a multiplayer lobby, gimme 4v4, 5v5, and 6v6. Give me Halo 3 Big Team battle. It can still have shitty netcode and all the other jank, I just need more ways to play.

[@makochama0]

I've been waiting for this one. Used to love being a blue in DS3.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Me too...me too...

[@WilliamChiara]

@@emotionaljonxvxhey man, I’ve been thinking about getting into DS3 does it still have an active player base? The multiplayer sounds so fun…

[@emotionaljonxvx]

@@WilliamChiara Every time I get on I manage to find people. The area post-Pontiff is the mainstay of meta level and the Crucifixion woods are for low level.

[@leebard9335]

​@@WilliamChiara It absolutely is still alive, at least on PC. I bought DS3 after Elden Ring since it was the only game I hadn't played and was shocked how active it was, especially in the Ringed City. Spear of the Church became my favorite game mode.

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Blues DO have a purpose: refill my flasks

[@soulstarved4116]

I'm not sure why they stopped invading solo hosts, but if it's to avoid bullying the newbs, then they could have made blues invade solo invaders, that way it ensures the target has some pvp experience. Personally, don't mind blues in ER. If you invade, you should expect to be outnumbered.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, I think all's fair in PVP, especially invasions. Really the only thing that gets me is the fact that Blues have so little to do outside of gank. I love more interactions and more players and more obstacles to overcome, but it's so silly that hunters have no real role in the game other than extra backup.

[@kurenian]

Cool idea for future games: allow invaders to invade in boss fights? Basically make every boss Looking Glass Knight. That would prevent boss AI confusion and give a reasonable reason to why co-op is tied to invasion. The player would have to decide whether to risk a 2 v 2 boss fight where they would get a reward of a 2 on 1 for overcoming the invasion.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I hate so much that hosts can fog wall to eject invaders. I get why and it's perfectly reasonable, but I hate it. I want them to have to make the choice of standing and facing me or trying to kill the boss before I can reach them. It'd be so much more exciting and way fewer invade - host has started boss fight - go home instances.

[@MarzaButTube]

@@emotionaljonxvx I think itd be fair if you couldnt be invaded while in a boss, but remove the ability to actually use a fog gate while theres an invader in your world

[@shaggnasty609]

@emotionaljonxvx Its so frustrating when you invade faram and your target is on the bridge to maliketh while your standing near the starting area, all you can do is just watch them walk up the path and go to the door. What was the point of spawning me there if i cant get to my target in time?​

[@genghiskhan6809]

Exactly. If we think about bosses as the hosts of the pve world, then invaders are simply summoned phantoms on the side of the world rather than the host who in the eyes of the world is the invader.

[@shambleshef]

They should bring back the DS2 fog gate, where you could backstab someone who was going through the fog gate.

[@skittermode1668]

My one of my favorite things to do is to just chill in Limgrave, and use Taunters tongue and the white cipher ring at the same time. At level 200+, anyone who shows up takes one look around, recognizes the area, and goes "oh yeah, fight club time." This is also the only situation I will use the blue ring in. If I get summoned in some random place and the host+companion are just camping, I immediately dip.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

There's a lot of merit to the system when used in a deliberately fun way like that and it's a damn shame the game doesn't encourage it more. I need my 3v3 and 4v2 back.

[@skittermode1668]

@@emotionaljonxvx not gonna lie, 3v3 sounds absolutely chaotic... and I'm all for it.

[@Xbigxhatxloganx]

red is the bad guys that's cannon its in the lore

[@kingxbuu]

I don’t think blues are the good guys. But I know for a fact us reds are the bad guys. 😎

[@realmshifter9102]

I've actually come to somewhat like being a blue in recent days. I'm in a hopeless cycle of making new characters but never finishing them, so putting on the blue cipher is a nice dose of PvP while I'm still getting my character up and running. That being said, you can just tell how much of an afterthought blues were in Elden Ring, considering they dont even have an item that teleports them closer to their host. Because I've personally gotten some atrocious spawns as a blue.

[@hunterjohnson8836]

If blues could invade anyone who had invaded and sinned would make some sense like a taunter tongue effect

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I miss the blues of yore. The covenants, the invasions. Oh, how glorious they were.

[@BlazeAlchemist991]

In Elden Ring, I like to use a One Piece analogy: Hosts are Celestial Dragons (corrupt nobles) Blues are Marines that fight for "justice" to protect the host Reds are Pirates

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Gotta work on my Conqueror's and Armament Haki if I'm representing the Worst Generation.

[@SocraTetris]

As for other content - Lots of other soulslikes out there. They won't do the numbers of the ER videos, because these videos have established a bit of an identity for your channel (trust, i know what that's like). This video had some lore talk, so try making videos that focus on very specific details of worldbuilding when the DLC drops. Try staggering a few of the videos you make with the ER DLC with things like the Enotria Demo. Lies of P. Steelrising. That crab game. En Garde. Heck maybe even Lords of the Fallen (the second one). Finding adjacent games/topics and slowly building out to have a less niche audience, without letting this niche go terribly long with a new video. (This is a great start thought. I've been trying to break into the soulslike niche for years without success, lol).

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I really wish I liked soulslikes but I should just give some of them a full shot to really make a decision. I just always find myself turned off by a missing feature or some quirk that makes me wish it was just a FromSoft game instead. Lots of those titles don't have PVP or character creation or the world-building that interests me. Still, it's a good idea to branch out if for no other reason than to expand creatively.

[@jacklandedhere5157]

Whenever I'm summoned as a blue I use every dirty disgusting trick up my sleeve (except glitches) just to make invaders ragequit or die. And when that doesn't work or I'm not in the mood i just gank them to death with the host. I'm pretty good at pvp so even without ganks I can kick reds' shit in most of the times it's us two, and man I get so many malding and angry messages, those red tears make my day fr. The powerstancing straight sword meta slaves just cannot comprehend getting stomped by a blue summon in a 1v1 with a build held togheter by duct tape and pencils. it's very funny, they get so mad because they can't pull the ganker squad™ excuse card. Of course I also tbag them just to be even more toxic because I've noticed they REALLY hate that and I tend to get a lot more salt if I do. I remember years ago wanting to play ds3 with a friend and we kept getting invaded by edgelord minmaxxed twink characters who'd run for 30 minutes and spam roped shit pots after the two newbies inevitably died. Playing the game we bought together was impossible, but then I got good. I started invading myself to find out the weaknesses of invaders and then ER came out with all of it's stupid bullshit. So knowing you edgelords are now the ones suffering from this broken and unbalanced system makes me so happy, genuinely. The thought of the invader waiting 10 minutes to find a match just to get humiliated as soon as I'm summoned will never not be funny. Trying to run? Poke. Trying to cast? Poke. Trying to heal? WA. Trying to attack me? Get poised. Trying to get mobs to draw aggro? The host with his yellow loser will take care of it, I'm coming for you. Trying to exist in any shape or form while we are in the same world and on opposite sides? Good luck. Hope you like your way back to the loading screen!

[@Quan-i4q]

Respect

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

Not in Elden Ring, but then again, blues don't even have covenant in this game unlike in DS where emphasis is put to either in chivalry of helping lone hosts (way of blue) or punishing the sinners (darkmoons). In Elden Ring, blues are just that final bit on insult, sandwiched between overleveled nanny phantoms and resummoning.

[@GreatBeaux]

Loved the ending. Great video imo

[@artemisDev]

Personally I like being a hunter, I am not a big PvP guy, but I like sometimes randomly being summoned. Especially after my first playthrough. I would prefer fighting bosses more, but sadly the golden effigy gets cancelled moving outside activation zone. So I only do golden sign when I am not actively playing PvE or want to just fight a specific boss.

[@deimos39]

This. All of your content on the topic, actually. It's just so much missed potential, man. I got into the Souls genre through Elden Ring, picked up DS3 after playing through it. The multiplayer mechanics of DS3 blew me away in comparison to ER. Even if they had just copy-pasted Covenants etc. into ER, it would have been frankly fantastic imo. My prognostication is that either a random patch in three years will make the multiplayer in ER the best in the series, or we'll never even get a player limit increase. I say let Fromsoft cook, I still got hope.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

You're a brave soldier, to be sure. I've pretty much lost all hope but I'm a nihilist anyway so w/e. Maybe the DLC will make me rethink the things I want, maybe it'll just make me want things even harder. I'm open to the possibilities

[@deimos39]

@@emotionaljonxvx Pretty much yeah

[@SocraTetris]

Good use of color corrector

[@Itachisramen]

Does anyone else solo host with TT on and enjoy exploring your own word with a 100% chance of getting invaded. I really enjoy my 1v1’s in the many different scenery and terrain rather than arena. Anyway, I do agree that the lack of player limit has crushed the limit of immersive PVP, having different odds such as a 3v3 would make Elden ring a game of unknown and that’s fun!

[@emotionaljonxvx]

TT is a way to play, absolutely. I think most people dislike it because it removes both the surprise element of invasions and also removes the cooldown timer and adds a second invader so you can get invaded non-stop and end up in an inverse 2v1. It's clearly a tool meant for dedicated PVP and even then, it's worse than the Dried Finger in every way. Still worth using for a lot of people's playthroughs and I encourage people to give it a shot. It's just not a very good implementation of the system.

[@UnknownRayDar]

3:05 Thanks, I hate blues more now

[@rathfoks5051]

Don't even need to watch the vid to chime in. Blues lost their purpose and are now just glorified gankers. That's the end of the debate.

[@IliumGaming]

you pretty much nailed it, blues are pretty much useless. I like to leave the ring on when i’m invading, I’ve had maybe one or two “legit” hosts that actually needed help. The rest is prepared ganks that will literally send you home if you don’t engage. The blues you fight as an invader are the most cookie cutter YT build L2 spamming brainlets you’ll ever see. Removing them would actually be an improvement to the game.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I'd hate for From to take away anything else from the already emaciated multiplayer but I think if Hunters were suddenly taken out in a patch, most people might not notice. They just don't have enough to do for them to be anything beyond inconvenient for the vast majority of their playtime. It's tragic.

[@pigskin94pvp82]

Majority of blues are gankers with no friends. There is no reason for blues to exist in this game honestly. If solo hosts could be invaded with great rune activated for example then blues would have a purpose. Help the hosts who actually need it.

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Btw, about topics: hard-swapping is nice

[@emotionaljonxvx]

It's on my list, though my take is probably not gonna be all that popular. I'm definitely in the immersion-first camp for game mechanics but I absolutely recognize and respect the skill.

[@shambleshef]

I dislike how the blue experience is nowadays just a glorified bodyguard position. I liked when blues were invaders, it made sinning have weight, and added a whole new group to the invasion pool. Allowing you to target PVP players specifically as an invader was really good for activity and longevity. It also allowed for interesting co-invasions. You could either become a sinner or a hunter of sinners and by doing so you would have another avenue of PVP in yours or someone else's game. That alone made PVP seem like PVP; there was 2 main sides to pick besides being the host at the wrong place at the wrong time (which they also should bring back). Also auras were a huge reason for progressing in these factions in DS2, which I really liked. Something that distinguished a phantom from another phantom (of the same kind) that isn't tied to a ring. Getting a rank 3 aura in either blue or red felt like a real PVP reward.

[@maximilianopavon8364]

Considering Elden Ring setup, i still wonder why invaders are not enabled via using rune arcs. It would make more sense, especially since YOU GET A RUNE ARC AFTER DEFEATING A HOST AS AN INVADER.

[@Hookshot15]

If I'm a blue, and I notice the host and co-op phantom are not even bothering with PVE and are standing around just for a gank, I refuse to participate. I'll find the red and will drop warming stones for him just out of spite for the host.

[@LianleoC]

4:01 Ooooh you're an invader! I woke up watching this and was soo confused.

[@stevie31]

I used to love being a darkmoon back in ds1. It’s such a shame this is what blues have become in this game.

[@deathtrap_99derp41]

I'm split on invasions ganks are not fun to recieve but fun to do and I was invasions had incentives to it

[@M--A--Z]

Blues in Elden Ring are gankers, no exceptions.

[@crimson1953]

LOL

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I really wish they had more nuance but it devolves into ganking so often. The vast majority of my fighting against blues is when the host is hiding somewhere to AFK farm or when I've downed a host and the slot is open for more than 30 seconds. It could be so much more but alas, we got what we got.

[@crimson1953]

@emotionaljonxvx If the host is afk I dont mess with reds. No fun if the host is gonna do that

[@sasanr1]

As a red hearted blue . Everytime i hunt and see ganking. i kill myself to help the invader

[@bobbycrow3874]

I keep my blue ring on so that I can give a wave, unalive myself, and give the red man free extra heals 😅 or I just watch, they hate that lmao

[@miku224]

My man’s got the good invasion footage, good takes on Elden Ring pvp, and now he’s dunking on cops and landlords too? Let’s fucking go

[@withinthecage5718]

you can invade someone who is by themselves. i purposely get invaded by myself to one on one with bloody fingers.

[@The_Okami]

What? No? Um. Im here to help as a blue? Wait? Aaaaaaaaaaa noooooo my own personal biases are metling away from my brain.......ill never be good enough to be a bad red man. I really hope they make some pvp changes with the newest dlc

[@OrangeWaterLemons]

I remember being so excited to ‘hunt invaders’ when the game wasn’t out yet 😭 it’s gonna break my heart if FromSoft hasn’t spent even a tiny fraction of these last 2 years tuning up the multiplayer systems.

[@MarzaButTube]

Im kinda holding out hope there will be some kind of multiplayer improvements in the dlc, but im 1000% not expecting it to majorly fix anything. So like no guarantees that itll even get kinda better lol. this and sekiro are the only fromsoft games i legally own, not to mention i got into them in like 2021 or 2022, and its such a shame that this is like the only multiplayer experience i have access to. hell even if i couldnt invade id love to be invaded without having to manage taunters tongue

[@emotionaljonxvx]

It's rough out there right now for multiplayer in FromSoft land. All I'm expecting with the DLC is a huge tick in activity and some fun new builds to try out.

[@rancidavocado2166]

I usually just sit and watch as a blue guy in elden ring

[@janaguirre4756]

As a hunter.............. get invaded Actually i wish that recusants were the blues. They kill whomever their target is, it be the host or an invader.

[@CFallescence]

Its honestly really unfortunate. Elden Ring is my first souls like and I found it fun to invade but almost everything about Elden Ring makes it so impossibly unfun to join in on. Its way too easy to get blended and a number of other things, many you mentioned, to the point where it just feels boring as shit to have to run away and poke at coopers for 30 minutes until I eventually get breathed on by a stray spell and I explode with no reason to return other than i want to. Im not sure what fromsoft should do but they have to do something

[@BLK_MN]

Okay, and all the footage you're showing is a somewhat twinked out low-level invader build. (You could do more to give yourself an advantage, but there's no denying it. Stormhawk Axe is a dead give away. Not going to argue, but definitely a twink invader) Probably the best example of why Blues are sometimes necessary. But the blue summoning system barely works anyway, and you're not going to get a lot of people who will stay at low-level to help as blues fighting off twink invaders. Half the time for me it's a connection error, meaning the host is dead before I arrive, or I'm summoned to the world like a mile away, and it's over win or lose before I even reach the invader.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

This ain't a twink, I promise. I made a whole video about it. The stormhawk axe is just something that showcases how stupidly strong ashes of war can be in the early game and I use it pretty damn sparingly.

[@BLK_MN]

​@@emotionaljonxvxIt is a twink, trust me. Showcasing or not. There's still plenty of things you're doing that low level players just can't, unless they too progress through the game gathering equipment and moves/spells, don't level up, then go back to finish those starting areas.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

The character has never left Limgrave with the sole exception of getting the bloody finger from Varre in Liurnia. The character hasn't had any gear traded from other characters. Every single weapon, piece of armor, item, heal, spell, and skill is available immediately and was obtained in Limgrave. All told, it took less than 10 hours and I took my sweet time completing everything there was to do in Limgrave just for fun. It's not a twink. I promise. If you just think low level builds are twinks, I can't help you.

[@MilkCalf]

Flask is only +4

[@luizhenrique743]

Im doing a taunters tongue run and my god... Even solo I get so many advantages against the poor invaders that unless the dude is WAY better than me I WILL win. If we have close to equal skill I will probably outheal him. I have more flasks, great runes wich give me more health, stamina, mind, status points wich will give me more damage and even give me more weight capacity so I can wear heavier armor and poise trough your shit. If everything goes wrong I can run to a boss room or even get blues if Im feeling ganky (I dont usually do it but sometimes in open areas ill do it to get a few 2x2s).

[@Fun4Dmc]

I dont need a Fraction too destroy Invader

[@ianwilliams2632]

Notes: 1. Love the filter, want to play with it 2. Amazing edgewalk at 7m20s 3. Invasion ending at 11m is one of your most exhilarating 4. Elden Ring was created to be a power fantasy, much more so than Souls. It's no wonder new players hate what used to be cosy community mechanics. They don't give a shit about the community or the lore or roleplaying, they just want to unga bunga and pew pew. The fanbase mirrors the game, though. It attracted casual souls because it IS casualsouls. As you said, everything is so weighted towards the host now that From couldn't even be bothered to make lore for the blues. They're just gank-helpers. Another tool to use in making the game a breeze. The blue-red lore divide from previous games is a microcosm of ER's overall problem with lore & roleplay: the game is full of names and places and ideas but it's not really emotionally poignant. It's just a romp, and its PVP reflects that. It always will. A goofy little playtime. As it stands, ER is basically "hey remember Souls? lol we do too". I really hope their next game is smaller and makes an effort with concision and novelty. No more relying on GRRM and just porting over Souls concepts with minimal effort and no lore. 5. The fiction of western capitalism and filthy landlords? spicy! 6. I'll try to think of a subject for a video. I like your commentary and don't want it to die.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Noted and noted well, thanks!

[@zionzamoura7907]

Jon could you talk about ds3?

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I can always talk about DS3

[@IKuzmos]

Lord of the rings: are uruks actually the good guys?

[@ismaellucas960]

10:51 and the worst of all is how people brag and brag when passing elden ring even though they have 1 billion advantages that completely break the game, I think they made elden ring much easier to have more people because the majority of people don't like to make an effort even a little bit so the less difficult something is, the more public it will be, AND THERE WORKS FROM THERE ITS HIGH SALES, if they really removed the invaders that the reddit hosts are crying out for so much, it would be a game for Babies, it's true that there is already one, the singles coop XDDD

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, Elden Ring has certainly succeeded in lowered the barrier to entry but I never enjoy when something changes fundamental aspects to have broader appeal. I want everyone to play these games but I don't want the games to change to convince them, I want them to change how they view games to appreciate what's being offered.

[@oysterlad]

Ive never been an earnest blue above level 15.

[@djkramnik1]

I do put on the hunter ring while building my invasion character because it gives me some casual PvP play to spice things up. And my blue will not be of sufficient strength to have invaded with. Does feel bad to gank sometimes but it's better than nothing. And calling blue is a decent way to host invasions with taunter's tongue. It's the only way to have a quasi fight club system. So although I agree with a lot of this video I wouldn't want it also removed on top of everything else

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, I don't want them to take away anything multiplayer. Blues are straight up tolerable as-is. They're mostly just easily abused and have few other purposes, but Blue summoning for TT runs is a really good use. If only they had more options. I need more options.

[@thekaelixchamber]

Lack of covenants is... disappointing.

[@MajinOkabe]

I keep my blue ring active so I can take up a slot in the hosts world to prevent a 3v1. Gives me a break from invasions to watch another invader wreck some gankers. Blues are kinda sad honestly. They come in and join the gank, pretending they have a friend or two for a few minutes of their sad existence. Then they get sent back to their world to live alone again. Basically they’re just the cucks of the Elden Ring world. They’re trying to invade while having a team to help them instead of just invading normally.

[@spooky8662]

I play as blue. I clear level. Never fight red.

[@swave7019]

"Are blues the good guys" lol no

[@OtherMomo]

In my opinion, blues should work like a mound makers. In a sense that they can be hurt by the host and their summons at least.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Really anything that would give them some more options or a greater sense of purpose. They're just so bland I almost wish they hadn't bothered so I could pine for them as they once were.

[@Jamesvanhavik4902]

I'm a blue myself

[@theiyrosthenes1639]

I did not know Mao plays Elden Ring 😂

[@emotionaljonxvx]

The good Chairman is a master of all strategic war, fictional or otherwise.

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

1212

[@Hirakra10]

Let FromSoft see this!

[@thrice1201]

ABAB

[@godkingalexander227]

A.H.A.B.

[@spacedoohicky]

I don't agree. If blues are only for hosts who know what they are doing (ganks), and invaders are there to increase difficulty. That seems to be a contradiction. I think blues are truly there to help protect hosts. Red's are not there to increase difficulty, but are just a strong mob. You might wonder why a strong mob isn't there to increase difficulty. The reason I think this is true is that the initial intention of invasions was to add spice, and variety. Difficulty only becomes a part of it if the invader can make it more difficult. Not all invaders can do that. And why are blues truly there to help? Because that's the description on the item. But the mechanics are abused. Hosts that don't need help abuse the blue mechanic, and reds abuse the invasion mechanic by using broken gear. It's simply an arms race that came about because of repeat players, and has nothing to do with any mechanics of design. Why does a host use blues? Because you drop down, and use storm hawk axe. Why do invaders use storm hawk axe? Because of ganks that will often include blues. In the present they are the problem, but you are too. The multiplayer mechanic has been gutted, and we can blame that. But it's in the past, and we have to deal with what we got in the now. We can appeal to Fromsoft to fix it, but they won't because players are a bit delusional, and self centered. Any fix will only please a certain demographic, and make others mad. From the dev perspective they might as well leave the game as is since there is no way to do it right. Some invaders would like to go back to DS1 pyromancy one shots. Should Fromsoft appeal to those players? No one truly gets a say, because no one really has any ideas that aren't selfishly outright disregarding the community at large. All that being said, I at least wish for a 6 multiplayer increase with two reds allowed off the rip. Not going to happen, but I have wishes.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a misread here. I'm saying Blues are used poorly because they don't have any way to exist beyond the very narrow scope of responding to invasions when two other criteria are met. I want Blues in the game. I want them to do more. I think invaders and blues are a great mix, just that Elden ring is missing the mark with how they've implemented them. As far as system abuse goes, the only real problem I see is that the way the system functions in Elden Ring encourages people to seek out these items and lure in invaders to get the most use out of them. Sure, it can just happen organically and that's not a problem. But if you want to use blues, if you want to summon them or be summoned as one, your easiest/most consistent avenue is one of abuse. I want blues to be able to invade again. I want them to be able to appear without always directly responding to someone else's immediate actions. I want them to do some real good in the game by incentivizing and providing activity. As it stands, if you wanna PVP a lot, you gotta gank or invade. In any case, I also want a higher player limit but it's not gonna happen for this game and maybe never again. Ah, the world that could have been.

[@spacedoohicky]

@@emotionaljonxvx I think that's off too. There is a bit of a too much of a focus on color. There is a hopeful expectation that blues could be like previous games. But I don't believe that's relevant. They are blue because it's in arbitrary color chosen to distinguish them from phantoms, and invaders. There is a lot of ways the multiplayer can be improved like you have said here. But I think blues are their own thing, and have nothing to do with any previous games. I also think that we have this one sided view. A lot of hosts could be using the ring to troll invaders. Maybe not. We don't know except in very obvious cases of a host camping at a grace. This is why I feel that there are a lot of self centered views about this. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, but it makes an environment where the game can't be changed in confidence. The game was changed in 1.10 by an obvious appeal made by the community. The same can't be done for the multiplayer for the reason I mentioned. The intention of my post was to emphasize this. We get changes when there is a clearly defined reasoning that potentially benefits everyone. And not a select few perspectives. Your perspective is not bad. But it's not taking into account the broader problems of fragmented community standards.

[@Kalamari24]

bruv you cannot be serious with this the shitty thing about blues is the lack of reward from covenants- I need my dark moon blade you bitching about lore while you praise 3 and 2 is just emberessing at this point stop beating your chest about improving the soft players and improve yourself- work more on targeting the host and outplaying the ganks it's all for the challenge, yeah? use the level design, use your strats and focus on your job of host sniping rather than belly aching

[@abysswalker7794]

As someone who has been since demon souls, I have invaded, i have protected, i have been invaded, I've gank, fight against ganks, invaded ganks, I've been blue, white, yellow, purple, red, host, i understand your pov. But if you want fight people go for meta level or higher level, low level invasions as u see in your own video, the whole video is u complaining about protecting hist when 2 or 3 dudes couldn't kill u in the video, if u want a *nice* pvp experience u need to go to meta level or higher and find good people to fight with U can search for communities or discord servers, u can even create one, but tbh invading low level where u find a bunch of casual and noobs, who sometimes don't even know what they are doing is just something I'm not big fan of The souls community is growing trough the years due to the people speaking of it and helping each other to overcome the challenges of the game, i remember I invaded someone low level he died and instantly went to call of duty and you never see him again playing a souls game, let's be real, as invader 95% of the time (from demons souls, ds1, ds2, ds3, bb) u been fighting against solo host and been running to mobs and environmental stuff to kill pvers with better gear and a build for pvp, not pve, the other 5% of the time was against gankers that even gankers are bad and coward most of time, is actually rare when u find a group of dedicated gankers and then the challenge starts there, so just stick to fight meta levels, become the host, go solo host, no summons, use finger remedy and turn on taunters tongue, then you can see the full picture and see what cheats and tricks invaders do, u can even meet friends like I do,

[@umwha]

3:00 ew anti-law sentiment. Edgey

[@BLK_MN]

In fact, looking through your videos, most of what I see is you doing low level invasions with twinked characters. You can set a few arbitrary restrictions on yourself, but it seems clear to me you're engaging with low level characters with incomplete, very early builds that barely even have Crimson Flasks, or any weapons, especially the Ashes of War you have. I'm not an anti-invader. I've done thousands upon thousands of invasions in Dark Souls. I just don't really care for how the invasion or pvp works in Elden Ring, so I'm "retired", but still encounter lots of other players and do pvp through putting my summons sign down for anyone. I spent most of my time around RL 110, and don't make new characters often, but I can say without a doubt, low level Twink invaders have never been worse in any Fromsoft game like Elden Ring. You're not exactly helping change that image. Anyone could find success with invasions if they twink their characters and fight players just starting the game.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

So I've made like 3 videos talking about twinks. If you want, go check 'em out. If not, that's cool. This just isn't the sort of engagement I'm gonna get anything out of, other than to say I don't think you're really understanding this video.

[@BLK_MN]

​@@emotionaljonxvxI understand what twinking is and why you may choose to do it. With the exception of Dark Souls 3 initially, I only started invading well after the player base had dwindled, leaving much less potential invasions. Even after the heyday of DS3 DLC, I would still continue to invade a lot. Even then, with only weeks before Elden Ring's release, I got plenty of activity and I never had to dip below mid-level to invade others without too much time waiting. If these are not your reasons for twinking, then you just want to invade players you'll have a better advantage against.

[@yikes6758]

there's also no external incentive to be a fucking blue lol