FromSoftware NEEDS to Patch the Taunter's Tongue | Shadow of the Erdtree PVP

This item has been a thorn in all of our sides for more than 2 years and it's time FromSoftware did something about it. We've been patient, we've paid our dues, now they can give us what we so desperately need.
Support tickets for Bandai Namco to request the change.
support.bandai...
There might be other links or places to submit feedback and I'd encourage everyone to use social media to directly address FromSoftware and Bandai Namco. We need to make our voices heard.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

I've put a link in the description for a support submission form to Bandai Namco where you can request the change. I also encourage people to get on social media and directly address both FromSoftware and Bandai Namco. This is something the community has been asking for for years and we need to make sure they hear us out!

[@thepsychoticfox5494]

Even if they change the tongue nothing would actually change the game need complete dmg adjustments for too much stuff nobody even plays pvp properly even in 1v1s they just try to use 1 shots or op stuff to get quick kills the other games were more balanced for pvp but now with all this crazy anime stuff you will just see 3 host or invaders swap to a meta weapon and start spamming after being slightly annoyed just like they already do. They only way for pvp to thrive is to rebalance everything in pvp like spells statuses and weapon arts

[@getsumeimarson2628]

@@thepsychoticfox5494 tbf, that was an issue in prior games as well. in the very least, the invader having backup in an outmanned fight with now way to negate the tounge would make the pvp far far better. i know me and my friends want to 3v3 but we can only do 2v2 and one of us is left out cause they have to invade to play with us. id take player count increase over damage and weapon nerfs and balances any day. annoying cheesy crap can be dealt with.

[@ActualPandaa]

Put one in the other day, gunna make one each week until I hear something other than “wait for an update”

[@thecrimsonlion8843]

I would love to see this implementation in Elden Ring as I would love for my partner to play alongside my buddies & I like they did back in DS3. I’m completely ok with the conditions you suggested & openly welcome them! Another thing, in regards to the use of Torrent in multiplayer, I’d love to see it be implemented & keep the mechanic that when you’re invaded (NPC or Player) it kicks you off of Torrent. I feel like that’s fair but also it just saddens me how little we get to use Torrent outside of Singleplayer. Part of the enjoyment for my group & I is experiencing the journey together, being able to ride together around the map or even within certain boss fights would be fun! Giving us the option to have some of us on Horseback while others run around on foot would also just be fun! [Off Topic Slightly, for Those Who Care Haha]: I really hope that FromSoftware in the future (or even better updates Elden Ring) updates the 2-Handed for Whips (and a couple other items) to NOT hold the whip with 2 hands on the handle 🤣, I use to be a KZbin content creator revolved around trying to prove that the Belmont fighting style with whips is viable. I don’t make the content anymore for personal reasons & etc, but maybe I’ll return to it in the future to show FromSoftware what I mean. Anyways, I’d love to see them instead make your character take a wider stance & “dance” with the whip more, turning your rolls into cartwheels or sidesteps, etc. to match the fluidity of the whip. Is this needed? No, but it would be a wonderful quality of life addition. The Running Heavy Attack is a chefs kiss mind you, but the basic Lights & Heavies I just can’t help but chuckle at how my character is holding it. Very similar with Knives & a couple other weapons that make me chuckle when 2 Handed. I want to see more of a hybrid motion of Obsidian Lamina’s Ash of War with that evasive movement or like the Sword Dance with the Whips. Knives it would be fun to see more of side dashes (NOT bloodhound step, but something more than a Quickstep). Thank you if you read this far, my main focus on the comment is the previous point before my off topic one haha

[@luiscastro1441]

Lol that was prolly me who did that to u

[@gustavonomegrande]

Miyazaki, where is my Abyssal Woods free for all battle royale? MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD.

[@dabiggestratintown]

Wait this is actually a fantastic idea

[@samsalin]

That would be fun as hell

[@JusticeforLiberty]

You think Miyazaki watches this channel? Life skill issue.

[@junoglrr9119]

@@gustavonomegrande it would be the perfect place

[@Dredabeast95]

Dude…thats brilliant!!! An absolutely chaotic realm!! I mean half the work is already done 🤣 Torrent is perma-banned from the woods already, and the Abysal woods feels so detached from the world too.

[@makochama0]

Nothing breaks my heart more than a fellow red chasing me down while the host and his buddy spam spells.

[@fredbyoutubing]

I wonder if they are friends using dueling summon signs sometimes. They only have to put a sign with a code and summon right when the invader arrives.

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

I want to tear my hair out when another invader just starts killing me and then tbags when he, the host and his two buddies just one shot me

[@videocrowsnest5251]

I was so happy a few days ago when a fellow red who initially was hostile to me as another invader being non-aggressive to them despite them clearly trying to get in range to hit me had that "Wait a minute...what am I doing?" realization, and we proceeded to kick the host and phantoms behind with a nice bow to each other at the end. Such a rare treat. I've had fellow invaders who spend half a minute chasing me despite me being non-aggressive/clearly capable of fighting them if I wanted to until I had to put them down.

[@KaedNinescarred]

I invaded into an existing invasion this weekend, 1 red vs 2 co-op. And the first thing I did was run straight at the other red when they backed up to heal... and cast Golden Vow on us both. Then we turned, reentered the flight and won it 🙌🏻 it feels so good to team up with the random other reds

[@ShadowAraun]

invaded recently against a host and a yellow, ran past a red on the way there to attack them. the red comes up behind me and ambushes me. maidenless behavior.

[@BeccaTKawaii]

Lack of 6 player multiplayer and no covenants that are actually meaningful is a joke.

[@calebheisserer5391]

Fromsoft doesn’t care about the multiplayer

[@d.a.u.d]

@@calebheisserer5391nor do they for the PvE when I see the joke that is the end boss of the DLC, as a story as well as a fight mecanic.

[@ceral1871]

@@d.a.u.dwhat’s wrong with the final dlc boss

[@usernameig975]

​@@d.a.u.dlmao true

[@usernameig975]

covenants are entirely useless good thing theyre gone

[@darthwoody9917]

Not having a frenzied furled finger that acts the same as mad phantoms in Ds3 is a huge missed oppurtunity. I also miss small summon signs.

[@onyx6904]

There’s not even any lore for the blue hunters now, like they’re just shoe horned in for no reason at all. Shows how little thought they put into it

[@TheMuslimMan1337]

And the guy who advertises that feature (Yura) never appears as a blue phantom. From completely dropped the ball with the multiplayer system

[@maxwella.gamingps4631]

​@@TheMuslimMan1337 Fr, Yura should have given you the rings. And he should appear when you get invaded by NPCs if you have the white ring on.

[@TapJegi]

He actually does! I am on my first playthrough and was really struggling against an npc invader that drops the Raduvia knife. When it was my, I believe, fifth try suddenly a message popped up of some one joining my world and it was this mushroom looking guy Yura. He pretty much swept the floor with the red invader and then had some dialogue about how vile the red guys are. He was blue during the fight! ​@@TheMuslimMan1337

[@ZionSairin]

​@@TheMuslimMan1337 He does appear as a hunter if you hit that one NPC invader on the way to the cave Patches is in and wait a moment. I'm pretty sure that's part of his questline too.

[@subhell]

Check out Sekiro Dubi’s video on Yura’s cut questline, I think if they kept that questline in it would have made a lot more sense for blues and covenants

[@BlazeAlchemist991]

I think the only way we can get FROMSOFT to notice is to send feedback through Bandai Namco en-masse at the same time. Perhaps you could share a feedback template, with all the points listed in the video, and then set a date to send it? It's a shame that Amir's Elden Ring PvP feedback website expired. I'm not sure what happend to that project.

[@Malxer]

This is the Way But nothing will change.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Good idea, I'll look into it!

[@dirt_xo]

@@emotionaljonxvx I'm gonna send an email to them. If all of us, people from reddit like the badredman subreddit did this, we'd get a reaction for sure I need a fj from Florissax ngl

[@InAVanByTheRivr]

I think the best way is to mass review at 2 stars. 5 star single player, but - 1 star pvp efforts

[@-z4630]

Does anyone know what happened to Amir? I went to check their channel recently and noticed they haven't uploaded in a long time.

[@zedzilla]

Lack of 6 player marked the death of the fight club. That is the true loss we experienced between ds3 and er. The fight clubs were a nexus for multiplayer and player interaction.

[@Sohelanthropus]

Right on, fight clubs are a community-made multiplayer ecosystem that you can't find anywhere else in the gaming industry It got me into PvPing, crazy Fromsoft doesn't realize this

[@numerouno2794]

Came here to say this, thank you

[@patrickharris1340]

Pontiff fight clubs were what got me into pvp after not really interacting with it in bloodborne and ds2, i can’t think of any other game with that kind of multiplayer experience :(

[@mad82827]

Man I miss those

[@ember4303]

Even when they released the arena update i still swore by the pontiff courtyard. So much fun pvp there

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

“So you’ve come to understand, now eh? To take power and make it his own.” “Know that the path you walk is blasphemy, and leads only to a miserable death.” “All you can do is laugh!” -Recusant Bernhal

[@StormhawkJuzo]

2 man ganking in Elden Ring can lead to some very fun encounters, 3 man ganking just feels like bullying, there’s no significant downside to this change. As someone who’s dumped thousands of hours into this game, it pains me to watch them let such potential go down the drain.

[@sidfuel]

i had hope for the dlc that pvp and Invasion will get better. there was thinking of covenants and fight areas outside the arena. but nothing absolute zero pvp changes. very sad situation.

[@videocrowsnest5251]

Three person ganking + calling in hunters as soon as you manage to kill one of the gank.

[@BadBob18]

If you invade, you get ganked

[@videocrowsnest5251]

​@@BadBob18 Smiting gankers as retribution would make for an amazingly good sport. I'd be laughing like a maniac for getting to give them continuous tastes of their own medicine. Such a cool and calming thought to even think about.

[@SMoKe-_-024]

​@@BadBob18💯% The invader just always wants the advantage. That's literally their goal. So when they can't win they cry. Just invade, fight and whoever wins wins. I have about 3k plus hours in ER and I invade, duel more than most so I'm not taking sides but using my experience to make an opinion. The invader spends countless hours planning their build for PvP then invade a host who has a pve build. LMFAO

[@Metallic_Angel]

An easy bandaid fix to taunters tongue is to simply remove the ability to toggle it when an invader is present if FROM wants to go the extra mile and make us happy then reserve a player slot for 2nd invader if taunters tongue is on thus making the blue delivery service unable to immediately show up unless a yellow is dead

[@ianwilliams2632]

That would be amazing but it goes against the entire philosophy in ER, which is basically to pamper the host at all costs (single player or co-op).

[@ComradeBobby]

I think the taunters tongue should completely deactivate the blue ring. If you're calling in invaders you don't need help. It's just abused by people with two phantoms who wanna spam spells at one invader at a time.

[@WokeandProud]

They should only be able to toggle it at a grace.

[@energyzerchanell]

@@ComradeBobby I use white cipher ring with Taunters Tongue to get one hunter, so I can get a second invader to join when going through the overworld with Taunters Tongue. I don't want to waste summons time, besides they sever out most of the time they see what I'm trying to go for. But hunters are there to kill invaders, so they don't mind hanging around in the overworld

[@tangyblueberry5013]

​@ComradeBobby What an awful take. Blues rarely get called in regardless since they compete with yellows spot. This is not a fix at all.

[@TW-qw5zr]

I remember that Maneater Mildred from DS1 came about because of a memorable experience a dev had of being Invaded in Blighttown. It's honestly kinda a shame that this kind of playtesting seems to have fallen by the wayside

[@jonathancastillo6433]

Covenants already have all their figureheads and gods…. I just don’t understand why they chose not to. Frenzy, formless mother, dragons, pots, haligtree, Erdtree, Scadutree, Godwyn, crucible…. It’s a sad state of affairs

[@usernameig975]

because if those covenants also had rewards like spells n such, they would become virtually unattainable as the game ages. Good thing fromsoft learned from this mistake

[@trishademilion5133]

@@usernameig975 At least with ds3, they made the covenant items farmable as well as obtainable through pvp. I don't see how this is "learning from this mistake" when it overall kills the interactivity of multiplayer. They even had coop covenants in previous games, yet they're completely nonexistent here.

[@usernameig975]

@@trishademilion5133 covenants themselves were a mistake to begin with. You were given the tools for doing things that covenants did previously. You can become a blue for only thousand runes. No functionality was lost.

[@ianwilliams2632]

@@usernameig975 Covenants weren't a mistake when roleplaying was a much bigger feature of the overall games. It's not just about ease of use, but feeling immersed in a faction or idea in the game world. Just throwing us a blue ring is pretty lazy and disappointing.

[@ianwilliams2632]

Before release, Miyazaki said they wanted ER to be a "less frustrating experience for all", compared to D3. I think they just took the lazy route to achieve this, and tossed out anything that was considered grind. They didn't care about roleplaying in this game, beyond the initial Class descriptions.

[@dr.gaming4860]

Pontiff Backyard fights were some of the most fun I've had in a game. Seeing all the different phantoms fight was incredible. I miss my mound maker days

[@silbeon1196]

I seriously miss chaotic invasions with another invader by my side, I remember DS3 becoming WAY MORE fun because of it - even if they sometimes attacked me out of nowhere, i still had fun experiencing that

[@dirt_xo]

I need a fj from Florissax

[@bonkgameing]

@@dirt_xoweirdo who pays for KZbin

[@dirt_xo]

@@bonkgameing I don't pay for KZbin what? These are free emotes my guy

[@summit881]

Back in the day, my friends and I would join up in Crucifixion Woods, activate the dried finger, and that was our evening activity (usually lasting till after midnight). We’d have a great time with either team fights against clearly experienced invaders or we’d duel those who seemed to struggle a bit against our gank squad. I’d love to have fun like that again and Dark Souls but open world would be a perfect game to have those big team fights. From should absolutely bring back the 6 player limit: it’s at the very least wasting a perfect incentive for people to play the game for years afterwards if they don’t.

[@ianwilliams2632]

Thanks for the story. I missed those glory days, so it's nice to hear reminiscences about them. Unlike with paid subscriptions, they don't make money from people playing online, so they apparently couldn't care less about what we want after the last patch comes out. It's frustrating.

[@garchamayne4254]

I used to do the same thing with a friend. In irithyll too, and the ringed city streets which had to be my favourite. We played ds3 from release all the way up until er release, and it's 100% because of the big PvP and pvpve 6 player team fights. It felt like a genuine battlefield and it was so dynamic. Then you had the occasional mad phantom on top and things got even more interesting. So many areas in er would be perfect for big, team fights. My first thought when I discovered sunken chapel was damn, this area would be so cool for a 3v3

[@nothingness217]

I have a theory about PvP's shoddy situation in Elden Ring. Miyazaki is the person in charge of almost everything in game, be it story, gameplay, art direction, etc. He called it "Total Direction" if I'm not mistaken. Here's an example of what it means : The madlad used to write every single piece of fucking item descriptions himself! (For all games except ER) That's how involved he is in the creation of his games. But in a recent interview, he revealed that he quite sucks in games in general, so he uses every resource possible to beat his own games while playtesting. While imagining THE Miyazaki being the guy who summons spirit ashes and cheeses his own bosses after dying countless times is hilarious, it also says that he doesn't PvP, because it requires a skill level beyond his own. The reason PvP doesn't feel as polished as the rest of the game is that he isn't involved in it at all.

[@heill232]

that seems stupid enough to be real too..

[@alifnaufalmaulana6156]

No need to write a wall of text to make Miyazaki a saint. Just say he doesn't give a fuck about PVP, simple.

[@nothingness217]

@@alifnaufalmaulana6156 the hell, brother? Who made him a siant? I proved he doesn't give a shit about pvp because he's bad at it, just decided to back it up with facts. Something you're not used to seeing, I know.

[@alifnaufalmaulana6156]

@@nothingness217 I mean good. Finally someone realized that Miyazaki doesn't give a shit. About the saint part some of them does that

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Seamless Co-op is taking care of fixing the multiplayer. Seamless invasions are AWESOME at the moment (when using a spawn fix script), because you can use Full flasks and Rune Arcs, which evens the odds more than you expect. And the best part: MUCH less latency

[@youtubeenjoyer1743]

It would have to come pre-installed with the steam version of the game, before I can seriously consider it. The game is fragmented as it is.

[@SaucyKakes]

REAL I'm considering buying the dlc on pc as well purely to do this (I mostly play on xbox)

[@Epsonea_482]

Can’t wait to kite 5 Torrents off a cliff for the fun of it

[@Lancestar-Knight]

with all the best parts comes the worst part too, so many bugs during invasions getting like spawning items you already have in your inventory is a big no for me to even enjoy.

[@nathanielspriggs1259]

Make a video bro

[@Drunk_Souls]

Getting to work right now. I already did a KZbin video like this a while ago, but it was during the lowest time of interest for Elden Ring. Doing one now would mean a lot more. I'll call it "FromSoftware CAN Save Elden Ring PVP By doing THIS"

[@Dr.Vinheim]

Thanks!

[@emotionaljonxvx]

Yeah, we're at the stage where FromSoft is doing the last of whatever they're planning for the game and it's now or never. Man, I hope they listen.

[@Sohelanthropus]

Do it man, use your voice because we don't have any

[@SanjeevRau]

I have a confession I once backstabbed and killed my fellow invader on sight but it was because i was really high and i just thought "oh bad red man" without remembering why i was there

[@grindedfranz]

Wasnt your fault. It was the plants fault for existing and accidentally drying, then falling into your cigarette.

[@SanjeevRau]

@@grindedfranz true!

[@onyx6904]

Bruh I can barely play Elden ring high much less invade 😭

[@SanjeevRau]

@@onyx6904 I don't do much playing in that state I kinda just press buttons and gawk at the screen. Still a great time 10/10

[@redninja8006]

After I kill the host instead of waving to my fellow invader I always backstab. why? Because it's funny.

[@fredbyoutubing]

My solution if there were 6 multiplayer slots: a red hunter ring that summons players randomly for invasions if an invader starts in a 3v1 situation. Making it a 3v2 and leaving the last slot open for either a blue or an other red.

[@Elijah-bj4vo]

Yeah and have a password on it so you can co invade with friend

[@fredbyoutubing]

@@Elijah-bj4vo Good idea, the dueling effigy could be that too. You invoke a red then invade a world with them. I have only ever used it by accident, I don't know who uses that. Being accidently spawned by randoms looking for coop partner is quite funny tho.

[@Mamaaax]

I believe they would use this to make it 4v1, since I invaded some worlds where the red spirit was a friend of the host.

[@fredbyoutubing]

@@Mamaaax You mean, inviting an invader and waiting for the randomly summoned red cooperator ? Make him purple with no friendly fire and it's not a problem.

[@WARxMACHIN3]

i wish i could still believe in the PVP, its such a shame

[@Squids575]

I think my favorite invasion ever was when i invaded this guy as a mad phantom in dark souls three. It was me on my own, a host with a warrior of sunlight and blade of the dark moon and they were fighting two red phantoms. It was pretty cool having a 3 way fight where the host and friends were trying to fight off the invader trying to kill them, and i was just out trying to kill whoever i could for my vertebra shackles

[@khknight]

The only way we can get the features we need before From Drops the game completely, is to show them how big the mp community actually is. We need to show that we’re a sizable group that would support the game for years. I think getting atleast 100k-200k signatures on a petition would do the trick.

[@youtubeenjoyer1743]

@@khknight you would hardly find even 10k actively invading people

[@fredbyoutubing]

Honestly, invasions are simply not welcoming to new players. You have to be a Pvp master or use cheap tricks, otherwise it's just one gank after the other. My idea of a red hunter ring would be a gateway for new players wanting to try invasions: you only get summoned as an invasion partner when the invader is in a 3v1 situation.

[@peacewalker4058]

Japanese gamedevs simply don't give two shits, I hope they did.

[@redninja8006]

Even when I sucked at pvp I still enjoyed it, I saw it like a boss fight a new difficult challenge to overcome and it encouraged me to improve.

[@usernameig975]

cant wait for fromsoft to shit their pants after losing a hundred players

[@YolStrun]

The lack of solo invasions in ER also tainted the invaider mindset. 90% of invasions in ER are 3v1 and invaders have grown around that and build their characters to win, not have fun. I did a solo Taunters tongue playthrough awhile ago and id say 70% of invaders were uninspired meta slaves, especially at the lower levels. The TT being the only way to get invaided solo got rid of the mini boss feel of invaders when they don't have a cooldown on invasions unless you want to micromanage toggling it every few minutes.

[@sufnskanne469]

Just make rune arcs like embers that activate he multiplayer and have it be tied to the lore .

[@mokacoffay2]

I used taunter's tongue and 95% of invaders will camp behind enemies because they assume they are about to be ganked, super annoying so I just turn it off now.

[@_lalapop]

swift slash 💀 EDIT: what's something that we could do for them to notice?

[@meowtank]

Check description for a link to submit a ticket to bandai namco

[@Papagiorgio153]

swift slash then edge walk 🤣

[@yikes6758]

One thing people neglect to talk about re: PvP is the way that elden ring removes incentives to invade heavily contributes to the conception of PvPers as strictly being out to ruin your fun. In the DS series we knew that invaders typically had rewards to look forward to for a successful invasion that would unlock unique gear they couldn't get otherwise. Extrinsically motivated PvP made it a lot easier to understand the motives of invaders as not being strictly adversarial, but as a means to an end. In Elden Ring, with the only reward being runes and rune arcs, there is virtually no extrinsic reason to invade, so it's a lot harder for normal players to see invaders as anything other than losers who want to stroke their ego.

[@kclsevsw]

DS1 will always be my fav for multiple reasons but mainly the leaderboard rankings. Spending hours invading to rank up in the Book of The Guilty made that game very special for me

[@Tortuga2223a]

Yeah well it doesn't help that most of the people who invade act like that, I get hate messages all the time cause I'm just trying to GTFO asap. They all fucking spam the same shit anyway so it's very easy to avoid most of the "strats" My build is designed around the fact that most pve people don't really know how to pvp, so I'm there to hopefully ensure a smooth run to the boss room or next grace.

[@Tortuga2223a]

​@@kclsevswalso it would be so much more fun with more people, wouldn't even mind if it felt like a fair team fight al la Leda and allies. One of the coolest things in the dlc a whole team vs the three of you. Feels awesome everyone fighting and mixing and teamwork feels amazing.

[@wyattthealchemist]

You make a very valid point, and there's definitely an issue, but on a completely selfish note - I really really REALLY did not like the "invade to gain exclusive rewards" thing. The games aren't popular forever. Waiting around just PRAYING to get a summoned as a Blade of the Darkmoon for like hours... 30 times. And that's assuming you won every encounter. And the alternative was to farm silver knights over and over and over. Like... No, man. Having better incentives makes sense but the "Unique unlocks" thing is a bad BAD alternative. I'd rather have things stay the same than go back to that.

[@josephbornman8462]

Interesting. I think invaders being an “enemy” (trying to kill you) makes sense though

[@fangrowls6336]

"I never thought i would die side by side with a ganker" "How about a friend?" Aye i can do that"

[@videocrowsnest5251]

It does feel pretty weird how hesitant From is to throw the pvp players a bone here. The frustration from PVP engaged players that things are not like this is mostly because of seeing the potential and thinking of the fun it could bring. Especially when the question of "why not?" has no clear answer beyond "perhaps they don't feel like making their game more fun for players to play." And if a random group of modders can seemingly start slapping together something, why couldn't From themselves do that?

[@Battleguild]

Casters are in the same boat. We get spells that acknowledge that we exist, but gameplay improvements have been nonexistent since DS2. It's a shame that Seals/Staves can't function as full weapons. I'd prefer improved gameplay over stacking damage talismans.

[@OdiousCoprophagus]

It's a bit fishy, isn't it? My guess is it's a money thing. Elden Ring broke into the mainstream and has an enormous audience compared to previous games. Someone is advising them that the PvP elements from previous games won't go well with a mainstream audience. Maybe they are afraid of alienating hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of newly acquired players by devoting dev hours to content that only the hardcore would enjoy.

[@hineni6406]

​@@OdiousCoprophagus Honestly, the ER approach to PvP makes the situation worse for newcomers, I think. Not only are there no "semi-casual" 1v1 invasions where the invader can go without over-optimizing his build to counter any possible 3v1, but it also means that the hosts are used to just rushing invaders down without getting any actual PvP experience or challenge. So, the PvE players barely have any incentive for PvP, especially if they are used to 3v1 and crying about invaders occasionally winning. They would not often encounter semi-casual invaders after starting levels because those get annihilated by 3v1 and either go into the training arc or drop the invasions altogether. They would not get into a chaotic 5- or 6-player brawl and get interested in that. Are there any actual rewards for PvP? Nah, balm (and rune arc for invaders, useless), so again, there's no proper motivation to even try "getting gud." The PvE skill requirement is a joke compared to the alternative. Also, consider the etiquette part. Not only are there a lot of newcomers to the ER, but thanks to no solo invasions and almost guaranteed ganking, those newcomers would rather see an invader as a pest as opposed to a challenge-until one annihilates all three people, that is. And why would you bother bowing and being considerate to a pest? People forget that etiquette works both ways, so both the invaders and hosts were more considerate before. Take DS3, for example. Would people be considerate in the ER? Unlikely. If it's a host, then they just go, "Let's bumrush that guy with three people." If it's an invader, they would go, "Let's kill this guy fast before he rushes me with two more." Overall, not only does FS give no proper incentive to engaging in MP and creating "emerging gameplay" for yourself and others, but they are killing for nothing. There's hardly any "emergent" gameplay in 3v1 braindead PvE ganks that is the fault of FS much more than the players themselves. And don't even get me started on the password summon system-that was a huge mistake. If there's no struggle, then there's no satisfaction from overcoming it, so being carried likely ensures that the player goes "eh, that's boring" and could just decide to not play any of FS products anymore. Man, I hate what FS did with ER multiplayer. I hated it two years ago, and I hate it now.

[@musacajelly2941]

The biggest change in PvP I'd like to see is an off switch. I wouldn't mind PvP if invaders actually fought instead of finding the biggest enemy and hiding behind it. Like come on man, you invaded me, now you want to just stand there instead. The 1 in a 100 time I get someone to actually engage its a lot of fun, but its mostly just people standing between a field bosses legs like an ipad kid with no tablet. I wish I could see invasions the way you do, but to me its almost always someone wasting my time when all I wanted to do is play with my friends.

[@mad82827]

Well invaders are outnumbered most of the time so I can see why they stick near enemies to Try to even the odds. Now if it’s just you and they stick to enemies that’s definitely annoying

[@joeyC34ee]

Invaders are pretty much there to annoy and waste your time. With there being no real incentive to invade, what else could be the reason they invade?

[@Magnificent-S]

@@joeyC34eerune arcs

[@incius8341]

I played through the dlc, did a few colosseum duels, helped some people with coop then looked at my character who I had meticulously crafted for pvp and uninstalled. I ended up not even invading one time. I might revisit Elden Ring invasions at some point in the future but that depends on Fromsoft.

[@OdiousCoprophagus]

That's my experience with Elden Ring as well. PvP is pointless, bland, and boring. It's an extreme disappointment. DS3 PvP was some of the most fun I've ever had in my lifetime of gaming.

[@TheSaucySensay]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@OdiousCoprophagussame here real shame loved ds3 PvP and the fight clubs + invasions. Would still be playing ER after the dlc if the PvP wasn’t trash but there’s no incentive to get ganked all day

[@B4DDHero]

I will say, the effort they put into balancing AC6's pvp gives me hope that they're trying to get a better grip on pvp. So how do we communicate your points to Fromsoft?

[@ddmacc]

What effort?

[@B4DDHero]

@ddmacc it absolutely became more balanced over time. That shows an interest that they didn't have in previous games.

[@andrewz4515]

More than likely completely different teams. Elden Rings team doesn't care and won't care about pvp

[@ethanwashington6789]

​​@@ddmacc even if they abandoned ac6 pvp really fast, just in the short amount of time they gave it any resources, they were making pretty competent decisions that the pvp really needed (except for ones that completely overhauled the multiplayer system ofc) For ER they havent done so much as make the phantom bloody finger account for height in over 2 years

[@darksun7263]

I was a former invader in all Dark Souls and had a lot of free time to host 3vs3 or 3 vs 2…In ER times things have changed and I haven’t much free time, I was only playing with my friends in 2 vs 2… I always let the invaders heals, wait for their red cooperators…And we don’t spam magic…After the dlc I became a invader again…It’s so disgusting… You always invades 3 mfs spamming all the hard hitting things they can at the same time…You are alone almost every time and there is no pve mobs to help you…And of course they point down at you, even if you land 3 parry in a row in them…Of course almost every match you need to play as sweat as possible…One mistake and you will end up in a meat blender and die in 3 seconds because of one million status effect proc on your screen…Oh and of course the reds will attack you for no reason…Maybe their brains are long gone after so much stress…I miss Dark Souls 3…The areas were well balanced, you always had some pve to help you, magic spam wasn’t that horrendous because the damage wasn’t astronomical and poise wasn’t a problem either… DLC map is so big…A little PvP focused area wouldn’t hurt…There are so many bland areas in there… Looks like the arena was just an “shut up” card for us…It’s so bad designed…A kid in Minecraft would design a better area to play…We PvP players carried Fromsoft on our backs for years…We didn’t let their games die!! And that is what we get… I love their games for everything, hell! I don’t even want to play games from other devs but if the PvP isn’t acceptable, how can I do it? I’m currently with 918 hours in one char…At least 700 hours are just in PvP…

[@Malxer]

It's been 2 years and PvP players have been saying this since the beginning. Wont change. Seamless coop is the future.

[@junoglrr9119]

going pc for seamless only isnt worth it.. on ps5 you can pvp in all the souls games

[@youtubeenjoyer1743]

@@junoglrr9119c OMEGALUL onsole player

[@junoglrr9119]

@@youtubeenjoyer1743 1v1 me in demons souls

[@shinren_]

@@youtubeenjoyer1743 unironically elden ring on console is better lol

[@mokacoffay2]

@@shinren_ It's much better for invading since the players are much worse

[@MrSlaughterrific]

Seemless co-op mod with the new invasion feature is the future of the game.

[@RedEyedDRAG00N]

Dumb mods

[@Eric188092]

I agree. I've seen that it is a better co-op experience (connectivity and continuity-wise) and have heard that it is a better PvP experience as well; I imagine it'll be one of the major ways to PvP once From moves on from Elden Ring.

[@Garl_Vinland]

Invasions in Elden Ring have never been less fun. This may just be due to big flashy spells being extremely spammable so while they're easy to avoid in duels, it is incredibly difficult to borderline impossible to avoid three players spamming three diffirent ashes of war with completely different dodge times that all knock out half your health bar.

[@EamonRyanGobShite]

I use Taunter's Tongue as a solo player for pvp I also summon blues for the added Choas I win about 60% because I am prepared for pvp But you should not be able to disable Taunter's Tongue as soon as an invader arrives then you get host+2 blues vrs invader. Ps. I hate pvp in any other games but it needs an overhaul.

[@flurb3285]

Even with tt open there are so many blues compared to red that it s gonna be a 3v1 most of the time, blues Spawn in so fast even after you kill them

[@Buttz2Buttz]

You could not wear the hunter Talisman. Sure your more likely to get 1v2s but at least it's more fun.

[@LucKyKief]

PvP for me is my end game. Once I’ve had my fun experiencing new content or a new game in general. I always start working on PvP characters. Even if I go back to the pve,I make it interesting and do a solo TT run. While doing that it’s all just to make my perfect optimized build for PvP. Idk what they could even do at this point to improve the PvP community. I’m also not a dev, but there’s gotta be something they can do man… I see a great hollowing on the rise for pvpers. You could even say we’ve kinda been in one since the start lol.

[@WhiteFang103]

The invasion mechanic is a legacy system at this point. The entire PvP aspect of Souls games needs to be reworked in the future games. Simple question to drive the point home: If FromSoftware gave the players a option to toggle invasions OFF in the next patch. What do you think most people would choose ? Yeah, turn it off. CooP scene in Souls games is massively more popular than the PvP scene. Hence we have dedicated mods like Seamless CooP for example that further divide the community (split playerbase is always bad). The current dedicated PvP modes and the invasion system just needs some serious rework. PvP in any format in Souls games could work and could be very fun, rewarding and exciting for the entire community, not just for the PvP community but for PvE players as well. It's all about how you implement it.

[@Tortuga2223a]

There's always going to be a split in any gaming community every man.. Competition brings out the worst of some people. With something as serious as a video game.

[@pingupower9780]

Great video, I've never really considered it from a gankers point of view as im normally a red but this was really eye opening about why invading feels so much worse

[@TheCatDoll]

I still remember doing waves on dark souls 3 (We called them waves so I guess is what u mean). 2 or 3 of us on any covenant zone, activate the finger thing and waited for them to come. If there was only one invader we tried 1v1 to make it more fair and fun for them too.

[@josephbornman8462]

You could say the same thing about campaign quests “If they played it or tested it at all-how could they come to the conclusion that it makes sense and to keep it?”

[@mad82827]

@@josephbornman8462 Exactly! Their npc quest lines are god awful. Having to reload the game after talking to an npc is so stupid and outdated. You would also think that the added icon on the map telling you where an npc is would be useful. But it only works if you have already interacted with them, making it useless when you have to backtrack to an area you would have absolutely NO reason to go to. God I hate how I have to wiki for them still

[@joshyguerrilla]

I want more bad red guys in elden ring so bad

[@wyrdthings]

Well articulated and focused. Good job. What hope I have left shall be placed in your hands.

[@junoglrr9119]

100% we need to send tickets all day every day... it would make 3v1's so much more enjoyable since you would know that you most likely will get a co invader

[@xotimyth]

Invaders are meant to be at a disadvantage they've said this before.

[@turbotegs2102]

1v3 is kinda harsh

[@xotimyth]

@@turbotegs2102 isn't that how it was in DS1?

[@WhoPutsThisStuffHere]

Made a run a while back where I used Taunter's Tongue without summoning help. Only Red and blue phantoms t It was a fun experience. It's a real shame though the game won't support the full 6 player concept. The chaos of 4v2s or 3v3s can be al ot fun for an opt in option.

[@diesal_one]

I had hoped so much that the DLC was going to: • Add 2 extra player slots (or 1 at the very least) • Add a few covenants • Add an arena or 2 • Make Rune Arcs work like Embers from DS3 • Make the Taunter's Tongue work like the Dried Finger from DS3 My disappointment was immeasurable, and I actually kind of hate Elden Ring now.. If the next game turns out the same way, I'm going to be deeply, deeply saddened..

[@OskarVanBruce]

No matter how much or how long you complain about these issues, as long as a reliable and fair solution for twinking is found nothing will be properly fixed.

[@62mag62]

Man, i miss the fight clubs in the Pontiff's backyard, and the Ringed City swamp area. Dried finger was the absolute best. Also, more friends to play with at the same time, so we don't have to awkwardly split ourselves up durring co-op.

[@gundoneshe2002]

This taunters tongue system sounds like a thing that could easily bring tens, or even hundreds more hours to peoples playtimes.

[@Genasidal]

Great video! Elden Ring sorely lacks 6 players, which is high on my list of PvP changes, but with that, I'd put the following: - Meaningful and a greater pool of Covenants, both co-operative and for invasions, with potential questlines involved, with rewards along the way (and lore!): . Questline rewards for said Covenants . Covenant specific rewards for successful invasions, but also for co-operative-based Covenants (miss sunbros). Think armour sets, spells, weapons! Nothing too crazy, just a few! . Covenants that can get their rewards from more than JUST defeating the host. I always loved Covenants that had the option to take out invaders for additonal rewards BEFORE taking on the host, or my favourite Covenant from Dark Souls III: The Moundmakers, who were literally just agents of pure, unfiltered chaos (DS1 Graveservant was also amazing). . Give us Covenants that leave an impacts on the PvE experience in interesting and unique ways too. Think of how the Graveservants work. We already have a lovely stand-in for that with the lore of Godwyn the Golden and those who live in Death/the Death status effect and the returning basilisks. Plus, in the DLC? Even more potential, with the catacombs that seemingly is pure basilisk worship! It's wild to me that we DON'T have this! - Custom Arena rules on each of the 3 available arenas. . Being able to mess with time limits and even having a sort of "stock" feature - think of the Super Smash Bros series. . Perhaps give us the option of unique gamemodes within the 3 rulesets, that involve more than simply killing, like a collection based mode, or a king of the hill based mode (with more interesting and unique arena layouts that can be different for each of the 3 colloseums to accomodate their defined rulesets and lore). . A quality of life style change, that allows you to essentially make preset loadouts, and maybe even builds, with armour, tools, weapons and your stat spread pre-loaded from a menu, that you can access each time you die before you respawn. Perhaps, there can even be toggleable options, that can change exactly how this works, or to just turn it off completely. For instance, if you've set the rules to be in "sets" in order to win, or a point/kill value, you can have it set so only after certain conditions are met, like every 3 deaths, or at the end of sets you can swap loadout. This one change would not only be completely new and unique to Elden Ring, but I guarentee you that it'd give further incentive for people of ALL level ranges to want to try PvP more! . As an additional idea to the last rule I mentioned, perhaps giving players preset "Fromsoftware approved" loadouts to try with preset names that allude to the concept behind said build, could be a way for players to experiment without having to level up weapons and perhaps even give them interesting insights into mechanics they never explored previously, in a safe, non-commital environment (that they've already made adjustments to the colloseums to be btw with the consumables update, so it doesn't seem TOO far-fetched). . Streak rewards! Now, this is something I've wanted since way back in the DS1 DLC arenas, but giving us rare consumables as a reward for streaks and even just consumables for winning would be awesome; especially in Elden Ring, with its diverse loot pool. Now, for the most part, I'd imagine this would be items that you can acquire a limited amount of per playthrough. Think Larval Tears, or items that you can only get via specific interactions outside of the guarenteed drops (like Rune Arcs for co-op). Perhaps for 1 win, you'd get a rune arc, but for a 2-win streak, you'd get a Larval Tear. But we can get a bit more creative than that. The first time you get a 3-win streak in ANY of the given colloseums, you get a bell-bearing for the respective colloseum, that gives you access to specific items we've been requesting to be able to purchase since the release of the base game. Caelid = Scarlet Rot Bolluses, Starlight Shards Limgrave = St. Trina Arrows and Ghostflame Arrows, Leyndell = Raw Meat Dumplings, Bewitching Branches, as examples. Any subsequent time you get a 3 win streak, you instead get 3 Rune Arcs and another Larval Tear as a reward! As you go up the streaks, you could also add in pontentially more cracked pots/ritual pots/hefty pots at the Caelid Colloseum, with more Perfume Bottles at the Leyndell Colloseum and a BUNCH of cosumable runes like the big Lords runes at the Limgrave Colloseum. It's an ambitious change, but I think, if you mixed all of this with the new "Covenant Reward" system I mentioned before, so that your streaks in the Colloseum allow you to get large quantities of those too, then it might actually incentivise people trying to get Covenant rewards to ALSO head to the Colloseum. . Final change: for all of the DS3 lot, I think you'll appreciate this idea - the idea to have private rooms that you can host and on PC, send out links for. Along with private rooms also comes the ability to spectate an ongoing match and from a spectators spot, you can choose to queue-up for the next available spot or just to stay as a spectator for the battles! Funnily enough, I actually think THIS right here could be one of the BIGGEST changes Fromsoftware could do, to improve the Content Creator scene for Elden Ring, as CCs could host live events that EVERYONE can watch in-game! Even something silly like having our characters physically in the seating on the outskirts and the ability to input emotes during matches would be AMAZING. Assumedly, there'd be a room limit, that the host can set, but the idea sounds novel enough that I think many would MASSIVELY appreciate this idea! Let me know what you guys think about all of these additional ideas. Whilst I agree, the 6-person limit on the Taunter's Tongue would be the most important change From could make, even ONE of these ideas here would be a MASSIVE change to the PvP Scene of Elden Ring! I'm interested to hear people's thoughts/additional ideas they'd pitch here too!

[@mad82827]

@@Genasidal man I wish dude! The ideas are there!! The stock feature in duels would be so sick. making a comeback from like 3 losses would be sick and also the ranks actually meaning something and they would tell you what you earned from losing or winning. Different rewards for a rank. It’s all there and best of all is it wouldn’t interfere with any one who just wants to play the pve. It just sucks because i feel like nothings added because of “lore reasons”

[@DracoTheBlack]

Man, I just want normal invasions back. I play solo, I enjoyed getting the occasional random red boss monster.

[@fashionsuckman4652]

You can still do that lmao. Just use a taunters tongue

[@Grundle_]

@@fashionsuckman4652yeah dude totally luhmaooooo! Getting an invader every 15 minutes while embered in ds3 felt like a good amount of invasions. In ER to get invaded solo you need to TT, meaning if you’re not actively watching and turning tt off once you notice the multiplayer items get greyed out, you will be fighting 2 people constantly. In ds3, when you killed an invader you got a 15 minute timer. In ER, the timer is less, I’m not sure the specific time but it’s much less than ds3, AND the timer starts when the invader ARRIVES, not dies. So if it takes 5 minutes for the invader to find you and another 5 to kill them, another red shows up immediately, with no downtime. And that’s just how it is doing co op with no TT on. Turning tt on while playing solo is just asking to get reverse ganked.

[@RangerIV]

I think these changes would definitely make pvp less frustrating and more interesting for both sides. I would leave the coop side alone and just have it add 2 invasion slots that activate at the same time though. Requiring a taunters tongue to get an extra summon is not my favorite idea but I could live with it. I would also increase the cooldown significantly between invasions, regardless of who won when not using the tongue. Its frustrating to just try and chill with a friend and have some crazy optimized pvp invader come in and 1 shot the host every 10 or so minutes. Invaders are usually expecting ganks, so they min max, then when the invasion works as originally intended against unsuspecting cooperators running whatever weapons and armor they think are cool, the invader stomps them, we get salty, and eventually start ganking invaders for revenge. Its a vicious cycle.

[@ayhcenkard2965]

I wish seamless coop was official the game would be more lively if this was real

[@jake212]

Also taunters tongue as has been a lot of fun to use to draw in invaders. I set up with my build and let fights come to me. Drop them a gift and then fight. The tongue has 1 more use but it is lack luster. The only people who participate are either trying it out for the first time or truly here for the love of the game

[@skittermode1668]

As someone who hasn't experienced 6 player pvp yet, I can imagine it would be absolutely wild in elden ring, and I'm all for it.

[@himynameisfin]

Creators should get together and get a huge petition going to send to From. There are so many of you PvPing and each has many fans that would sign. That's probably your best chance of passing this.

[@Jigunyaku]

I would really like a castle siege and 6 vs 6 battle! Well, or at least 3 versus 4. In the Leda fight, I fought 4 vs 5, and it was great.

[@sPaCe_NiNjA187]

One thing host and invaders like is fashion. Fashion Souls. Lords of the Fallen offers armour tints after collecting coins from invasions and reaching different tier levels. LotF tints allow over a 100 different shades of colors. Players being able to change the color of armor in Elden Ring would be a very enticing invader reward.

[@Camacho4Prez2024]

There needs to be a deep dive into what Japanese players think about invasions. Do they care about the same issues we care about? Is there some sort of cultural divide that allows them to not see the current state of things as a problem, or are they just as salty as we are? I think that survey alone would get us closer to what FromSoft may be thinking. People in the FGC already know that Japanese devs are notorious for ignoring the rest of the world with regard to anything multiplayer and only pay attention to Japanese gamers.

[@CeresTheCrow]

The only issue I see is opening six player PvP would either require the fourth slot to be open for blues only, or PvE would have to be rebalanced around four player co-op. Even with this hurdle, not providing a 6 player limit would be a massive missed opportunity for the game after support ends.

[@gaming_potato7044]

Swift Slash User. Opinion rejected

[@Shlongblong420]

Womp womp cry about it

[@brock9616]

True

[@Oracle1126]

I mean he’s hunting ganks

[@Wkayyy]

I really enjoy the 6 player PvP! I really hope they bring it back, it makes invasions so fun and chaotic and last a long time

[@Ea_Rapture]

I used to play PvP but removing single player invasions, lack of 6 player pvp, removing incentive to even pvp with lack of rewards made it so I don't have any reason to face off against nothing but ganks. I'm tired now, man.

[@dubiousdevil9572]

I hope this video gets big, for you, and for the ER pvp community. Ive noticed there arent many ER pvp content creators talking about this and its a damn shame. If more content creators (especially the big ones) brought up these concerns, we might actually have real momentum to get these changes going.

[@knavenformed9436]

I don't think they will ever change the invasion playcounts But 1v3 is just way too brutal and roll spamming away from endless death lazors gets old as a "gamemode", should've been 1v2 or 2v3 from the beginning

[@Hookshot15]

Hi Emotional Jon, I was wondering if I could get some advice. I've been trying to invade but I'm terrible at it. That's not the issue so much as my interactions with everyone on Elden Ring is. I try to invade goofy, I get t-bagged and pointed down. I invade and drop runes and help out, get t-bagged and pointed down. I play in the arena and lose, even if I'm using a bland build, I get t-bagged and pointed down. And even when I do get good, win an invasion, and return to to Roundtable Hold, I get vile hatemail when the host literally dies next to the grace. How do you do it? I can't find any enjoyment at all in PvP anymore, being a blue sucks, and I hate helping a host who is clearly ganking and not trying to beat the level. It's all so tiresome, I don't even want to play the game anymore. This isn't a bait argument or a pointing fingers thing, I know I've been toxic before a few times. I would just like advice from someone whose videos I enjoy watching, because I don't want to even play multiplayer at all anymore. Thank you for reading if you did, and if the person reading this is you or someone else, I genuinely hope you have a good experience regardless if you win or lose. Edit: I might have posted this twice, my bad.

[@emotionaljonxvx]

So the PVP in these games can be extremely toxic. I think the only easy answer is to find what makes you want to PVP and focus on that. I want to do it because I like testing my build against uncertain odds. I like not knowing what's going to happen and fighting against other players is the best way to feel that. I am often faced with terrible matches and point-downs and all sorts of toxic behavior, the majority of which I've done to others too. It's sort of in the nature of the game to just be mean and unsporting, because it's set up to be imbalanced. When you lose to a gank, it makes sense. They have all the advantages and they want to rub your nose in it. When you win against a host and they send hatemail, it makes sense. They hate you because losing feels bad. The system is meant to pit player against player and that generates animosity. My advice would be to embrace that animosity. Not necessarily perpetuate it (unless you want to) but just accept and appreciate that it's sort of the point. Bloody Fingers steal blood for their lord, Hunters try to stop them. Recusants wage war against the Erdtree and fight their fellow Tarnished. It'd be weird if you didn't hate each other. It's all part of the game. Games are supposed to immerse you and make you feel things. If that part of it makes you feel too much or feel bad, that's completely understandable, but there's no getting past that this game is not trying to facilitate jolly invasions. People can be weird and funny with them and sometimes it can be surprisingly pleasant, but overwhelmingly the incentive is to do everything you can to ruin someone's day because that's the only way you "win" and every weapon/skill/spell in Elden Ring to that end is designed to frustrate as much as possible. It's probably the most annoying game I've ever played but it's still a way better experience than any other current release. tl;dr The PVP is a joke in the same way that professional wrestling is staged. Everything that happens in the ring, while loosely scripted, is physically experienced and should elicit a strong emotional response accordingly. How you feel about that response should determine how much you want to engage with it.

[@Hookshot15]

@@emotionaljonxvx Thank you very much for the reply. I really appreciate it. Truly.

[@justkubz]

​@Hookshot15 Have you tried invading at lower levels before? I find them to be much more laid back with more room for errors, and you can focus more on having fun fights and even trying to improve your game skill. I have a lot of fun around level 30 with +5 weapons, you'll get a lot of invasions around Stormveil which has a lot of variety. If you use the Radagon's Soreseal, you can get some extra levels without facing too much of a downside when it comes to the damage you take, which allows you to put more levels into your vigor while still having the stats you need to use some decent weapons so you don't die as easily. If you haven't moved on from invasions already it may be worth a try. I have some videos on my channel about setting up a low-level invader. Feel free to check them out if you need some help. I wish you luck gamer, thanks for the well wishes, and I hope you have a great week!

[@oliverp3545]

The fact that invading often means having to 1v3 and just sprinting and dodging from them until they run out of FP just takes up so much extra time than needed.

[@lotusluminance5872]

I believe an issue with six player limit is performance issues, related to EAC on PC, and to PS4/Xbox performances in relation to the open world. (In the Coliseum, all open world assets aren't loaded, unlike in invasions). Edit: I see you addressed it. Added the point about the coliseum. Five player limit might be more realistic in the light of this with 3 gankers vs 2 invaders, always having a second invader guaranteed when the Toungue is active and a co-oper/blue is present. That extra person would add an element of chaos while keeping the advantage on the Host's side, and is probably easier to implement from a performance perspective for Fromsoft. Six would still be better but I'd be fine with this too. Plus actual covenants if possible. In an ideal world, Legacy Dungeons (that can partially unload the open world when you're in them) would have this all the time without the TT, and the TT would add an extra player up to six. Probably less realistic tho. In any case, I hope we get heard by From.

[@lanius1084]

Yeah elden ring pvp sucks mega balls as an invader. Its just being bullied by the hosts spamming the L2 button at you while a Hunter joins in to balance the apparent injustice of me daring to use the games mechanics.

[@TRPB-]

Couldn’t agree more. Gank city in ds3 was my most cherished times in a video game

[@berlioz4027]

Miyazaki stated that the invaders purpose was meant to be a "difficult enemy." You, the invader, came into the host's world as a powerful enemy designed to challenge the host and their companions. Not to grief players as a designated PVP system. Dedicated PVP is the red signs, tongue, and arena. The core game itself is designed to be a single player PVE experience

[@HunterBloodHunterBlood]

Yeah wow aren’t we hard to kill while getting REAMED with a host and his 2 overleveled buddies spamming op anime garbage and magic. Yeah those poor hosts. Poor them….

[@berlioz4027]

@HunterBloodHunterBlood What you are mentioning there comes down to balancing and implementation -- to some degree, even a skill issue at times. But the purpose of the invasion system was exactly what I mentioned above. Also, think of it this way, imagine how many people would be upset if invaders had the advantage? No one would like that (besides the people who enjoy forceful invasions.) The invader's purpose is to be an obstacle, not a blockade.

[@mad82827]

⁠​⁠​⁠I don’t think we’re asking for invaders to have an advantage. they have always been at a disadvantage. rather just a more functional and improved system that makes the multiplayer more enjoyable for everyone. I’m sure that the people who abuse the taunters tongue aren’t thinking of an invader as a difficult enemy and just want to gank. The griefing can come from either side and is inevitable with these games

[@berlioz4027]

@@mad82827 Trust me, I hear you and agree haha. I'm only trying to echo the statement of the creator himself. We've all been asking for a seamless coop option and haven't gotten it either. It's fair to say he has an envisioned purpose and intention for multi-player and what we are experiencing might be just that. It's nothing new given we've had like 6 iterations of this very same system.

[@blackwolf100k6]

I was playing DS3 the other day and man the dried finger was just perfect. Co-op makes the game easier, that’s just a fact, especially with 3 people. Having the drawback of summoning a third phantom being more invaders was perfect and gave us some of the most memorable invasions ever. Now I just invade bc Elden Ring is such a cool game but I’m finding less and less incentive to keep invading when I run into primarily 3v1s or 2v1s that turn into 3 bc they have the Hunter ring on. Please Miyazaki bring back the dried finger, it would even make sense lore wise seeing as this game is all about fucking fingers lol

[@KingJobber]

I'm almost certain the player limit is due to hardware restrictions. There is a big difference between 6 players in the arena on PS4 and 6 players in an open world on PS4. This could have been fixed with a legacy dungeon that allows 6 players but I guess From didn't think of that.

[@YarnhamBrainsucker]

I don’t even think it’s hardware limitations, we had 6 player on ds3 on PlayStation 4. I get it’s a huge open world but you’re right why can’t this be supported for legacy dungeons, it especially sucks when we got such good legacy dungeons in the dlc

[@mad82827]

I thought this as well until dlc came out and literally had a fight that lets 6 player/npc enemies all at once. But I also gave them the benefit of the doubt thinking maybe there is issues with connecting 6 players at a time. Until I realize there prior, OLDER games allowed 6 players at once, and now seamless co-op allows what like 100? Not even joking look it up. I really just think they don’t care for the multiplayer this time around :(

[@KingJobber]

@mad82827 that fight is also contained to an arena. I'm talking about open world like running around Liurnia on PS4. The PS5 absolutely can handle 6 players in an open world, but the PS4 is a 10 year old console now.

[@achaziel]

I'm 90% sure the four player limit was due to the game releasing on PS4 - apparently in their playtesting the console couldn't really handle it comfortably, so instead of optimizing the engine they just crippled the online experience and decided to keep it the same for the other consoles and PC to maintain parity between versions.

[@GoGoZebras]

Let's also get Invasion spawns based on xyz plane instead of just xy axis. Pretty plz lol

[@MaoMavo]

+not getting respawned at the same location

[@patrickharris1340]

fix the damn belurat spawn point already too why am i ALWAYS spawning in the tree

[@rossato2109]

In my friends names and mine, THaNK YOU for the video. Agree 100%. ER was a huge step back in multiplayer when compared to dks 2 and 3. And I miss so much the Seed of Giants, sad myzaki hates it (as it was even nerfed in Dks 3 to become useless). Had a blast creating gauntlets with it.

[@cceibon]

Off topic but can we please just have a somewhat better co-op experience in the base game? Doesn't have to be as big as the seamless co-op mod but let us graces, summoning pools, fast travel (when not in combat or when an invader isn't present/taunters tongue is active) it isn't asking for much Fromsoft, I just want to have a good time with my buddies ):

[@TrashZora]

I 100% agree with you Mr.Jon, a lot of people are suggesting seemless but I dont think that is a solution. Its just a good bandaid for now. We need an official change to at the VERY least how TT works.

[@Tory-JJ]

8 player invasion. Covenants.

[@andrewarnold6755]

As a long time invader man I agree with everything you said and have been praying for it since release.

[@user-dx9iz7pv9d]

Usually when I get invaded it's just annoying I'm trying to give a fair 1 vs 1 allowing them to buff. But the moment I start they try to gank me forcing my two teammates to react. Or we play some silly game of cat n mouse chasing them as they agro enemies to assist them for a 1 shot. Invasions used to excite me when it popped on the screen now I just get disgruntled realizing it's L2 sweats running a cheese build. 🐒

[@haydenmartel1772]

“1/3 chance they side with the host *for whatever reason*” Like I can’t see footage of you using swift slash.

[@mushroomy9899]

lost all credibility when you used swift slash in the footage

[@divinecheese]

Yep my thoughts exactly

[@matt_r_w]

When I’m with a host as part of a 3 person squad and we get invaded by a single invader, the other two start wailing on the invader and I’m usually thinking “no point in me also attacking because they’re already getting smacked” - an extra invader would be really good I think

[@Gat-_-]

Yall don't like always being outnumbered by spell and ash of war spammers?

[@twistoss7820]

Dont forget clowns of night and sleep shotgun blues!

[@freshyeska9875]

I 100% agree with you and sorely miss fight clubs! That was my favorite thing to do in dark souls 2 and 3 and even tho I ran a few when elden ring just released, it just didnt feel the same without the 6 players :( I miss covenants aswell and the crazy purple phantom was my favorite addition ever! It made me excited for how the pvp would evolve in future titles but unfortunately we regressed.

[@energyzerchanell]

I am not gonna listen to suggestions by a guy who invades with fucking swift slash. You're part of the invader trash i have to slog through when playing with TT

[@The_Emotionals]

Great video. As a long time player, the general vibe I get from PvP is exactly as you stated. The focus seems to be PvE on this one, even if PvP is what kept the previous souls game alive so long. I do like having odds stacked against me, and in previous games it wasn’t so drastic. So taking on and killing a 3 man gank squad was daunting, but more doable in my opinion. Right now, majority of the time you’re going to get ash of war spammed and stun locked to death. It also seems the community attitude has drastically shifted as well. But hey, I did enjoy the story and PvE. So after completing it, I see no reason to stick around anymore.

[@Tri-J7]

This is why i just invade irl lol

[@Birbucifer]

Mugging people >>>>>> Invading in ER 💯

[@ferro9926]

I was at least hoping to get a mound makers copy in the dlc, letting us invade anyone rallying hunters as a "frenzied finger" like vyke Instead, the closest we got was a grab attack and a frenzy spell instead of my oh so desired frenzied finger

[@skywalkersbutido6375]

I think and therefore fear that ganks are encouraged.I’m an invader solely btw. A “patch”sounds like a fix but I think the ganking is encouraged bc they are the ones that have control. Maybe they could let the invaders use the taunter’s tongue too? Idk just a little suggestion. FROMSOFT PLEASE ADD 6 player limit PLEASE.

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

Invaders should get full flasks, and immunity to boss damage. I lure the host into a dragon's fire breath, and die as a response.

[@Koala675]

You literally hit the nail on the head I’m sharing this to the from software page

[@Malxer]

Great video but Micheal Zaki wont fix it because he doesnt play his own game

[@KaedNinescarred]

I wish the player limit got raised to 6. It would open up space for so much more gameplay. There would be so many more strategies that would emerge with fights that big

[@grindedfranz]

I was hoping elden ring would do some drastic creative changes to the multiplayer. Ofc they didnt. Its a shame. The game got handled way to conservatively. There would be so much potential. The colloseums are just shallow. Its boring.

[@kojiro133]

One minor change or implementation I'd really like is to have a red ring similar to the blue and white rings that enable a solo host to be invaded. Something i can leave on, without having to reactivate it over and over like the taunters tongue.

[@Punished_Rustles]

I just wish there were a middleground between getting spammed with invaders and having literally none at all. Demons through Dark Souls 2 were really cool how invasions were this thing that could potentially happen at any time (given certain criteria ofc). It was fun to play through the game normally but then every once in a while have an invaders pop in and spice things up. DaS3 onwards this was completely lost. You NEVER get sporadic invaders because by default they only connect to worlds with co-op. And using the dried finger results in no cooldown at all so you just get spammed with constant invaders every 30 seconds and can't actually play through at all. There's no sweet spot between these two extremes anymore, and that saddens me.

[@Felicificity]

What are you talking about. In DS3 solo hosts could be invaded anywhere they were embered. And it even had specific covenant areas where invasions would happen more often regardless of whether you had a phantom. It was only in BB and ER that you couldn’t get natural invasions, and even BB had the decency to have two areas where solo hosts had to deal with the threat of invasions.

[@Punished_Rustles]

@@Felicificity solo hosts can be invaded, but you won't. I think I got invaded a grand total of once last time I went through DaS3 fully embered. Technically it can happen, but for all intents and purposes it might as well be nonexistent.

[@rigorm136]

@@Punished_RustlesI was doing a playthrough of ds3 on ng++ at soul level 139 last week and I got invaded as a solo host at least once or twice in every damn area and I got summoned as a spear of the church like 20 times. If you think ds3 still doesn’t have active pvp and invaders then you aren’t playing at the right level.

[@fairq6063]

4v2 would be great aswell because most of the group sized (friend wise) is 4, it’s like the perfect amount of people