Electric Car vs Gasoline Car - Shocking Cost Comparison - 2022 Mini Cooper SE EV

In this video I compare the financial aspect of buying and running an electric car.
While EV's are not necessarily suitable for everyone's needs or situation, if they are a possibility, is it wise to buy on over its gasoline counterpart?
Don't they cost a lot more to buy?
What if that expensive battery fails after the warranty ends?
What if no-one wants to buy it from you in future?
These are all questions I had when I was considering buying the 2022 Mini Cooper SE for my wife over a base model gasoline Mini.
So I made myself a little worksheet and did some calculations.
I was shocked at what I found...

[@SinbadCarey]

Excellent breakdown and video, although was a bit confused to hear a fellow Brit talking about a car with UK/European origins but using US costs!

[@DRGradybooks]

Thank you for this breakdown of the costs! This is really helpful for when we need to replace our car.

[@AndysComputer]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ristretto3896]

Thanks for the enlightening comparison! Hadn’t thought about it this way. Potential buyers trying to take advantage of the incentives should be aware of how the fed and state rebates work, specifically in relation to income and taxes. I just placed an order for a 2023 model, which is identical to the 2022. Can’t wait!

[@AndysComputer]

Congrats! Yes the rebates/incentives depends very much on an individuals situation, which is why I had to drag this video out explaining such things instead of just saying "you get $7,5000 from the Fed" which may not be true...

[@crivsmum4820]

@@AndysComputer so what do we get in UK?

[@marthareyes8891]

I am in Dallas as well and ordered my MINI Aug. 2021 received my island blue MINI the first week of Dec 2021. In 2 months the gas savings alone has made me love the MINI as it's my first electric and MINI I have owned. Thank you for the analysis!

[@AndysComputer]

If yours was from Mini Plano then I may have a photo of both our cars side by side as delivered off the transporter as that was an island blue...

[@marthareyes8891]

@@AndysComputer lol you probably do have a picture of my Island Blue MINI because I did purchase it at BMW in Plano.

[@SheriSoltes]

I live in Austin so that is great to know. Thank you for your comment fellow Texan!

[@gildiaz3279]

Very complete comparison. Great job. On my third Mini - 2022 Mini SE. Without all the detailed analysis, I concluded $21K (after rebates and selling my 2012 Golf) for a loaded Mini SE (Iconic) was a good deal. Plus nightly home charging is only 10 cents per Kw here in Pittsburgh = less than 3 cents per mile. Compared to 15 cents per mile of city driving my Golf.

[@AndysComputer]

Seems like you got a very good deal! This is our first Mini, and is the only car my wife has ever shown any interest in, so she's thrilled and proud to have it!

[@jellyd4889]

Wow. That is cheap. In Germany we pay 30cts a kW. Probably a lot of tax in our 30cts. I always wonder how the US states survive without all the tax? Government, roads, services etc.

[@ChrisHessJD]

@@jellyd4889 Our infrastructure and social welfare system are in shambles, that's why. In Pennsylvania our roads look like a warzone in many areas (tons of potholes and poor surfaces)

[@alohathaxted]

if you have naysayers bothering you direct them to this cost comparison. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3Wamo1pi52Eb8k

[@mjkay8660]

i like the way it handles in the snow

[@victorespinal1278]

What a wonderful analysis. I bumped into it just when I was hesitant about trading in my 11 years Toyota Tacoma for an electric mini cooper as I moved to town and don't need the truck anymore. Now it is a no brainer to me. I also made the comparison between buying the mini or leasing it. I got yo the conclusion that if the battery is available to purchase, a good quality car deserves a new one instead of returning the car at the end of the leasing term and having to walk away with no car and no money because leasing for 4 years turned to be as expensive as buying.

[@AndysComputer]

I'm curious about the leasing cost vs a comparable gas car as that is probably a better comparison as most people don't pay cash for new cars. That said, I have seen lease costs on electric cars be better than their gas equivalents, but also sometimes much worse which suggests the manufacturer thinks their depreciation rate will be high...

[@derekdavison5945]

My experience, based on real world testing. As an engineer involved in energy management I have had the option to test, real world, my cost of driving an electric car. I used several metering devices during charging and only used a 120V, level 1 charger, plugged in a standard 120V outlet in my garage overnight. I tested on a Hyundai Ioniq 5, duel motor and driving in ECO mode. I am light on the pedal, most times and alert on how to use the power. In short, it cost me about $4.75 USD per 100 miles of driving. Simply said.

[@Brian-om2hh]

That pretty much equates to what I'm seeing with my Kia EV. I'd estimate I can drive 100 miles, for less than £3 ($4?)

[@mikeburnett7028]

But how much to replace and cost to recycle the batteries when they are depleted?

[@KCnLex]

Exceptionally good video. Folks seem to pull costs out of the air making their conclusions suspect. Yours however, is one I would trust.

[@AndysComputer]

Thanks! Explaining every number makes the video long and a bit boring I admit, but showing the workings hopefully helps people trust the content!

[@pottacoola]

Very nice video, has helped me on looking at a ev differently now as i was looking to buy one then said ill wait but when you look at it this way you dont really need to.

[@markstevens1729]

Best comparison I’ve seen. Answered virtually all my questions. Will be showing the wife directly.

[@RyanCaravana]

Such a great video, Thank you for sharing your insights and scenarios.

[@Vromiaris778]

I own a Mini Cooper SE and absolutely love it! I looked up the cost of replacing a battery on a BMW i3 and it came to $14,100 - so you’re pretty spot on! I plan on keeping this one for a very long time - ICE feel, EV advantages - LOVE IT!

[@Brian-om2hh]

Why would you *replace* the battery, rather then having the pack refurbished at a fraction of the cost of a full replacement? Here in the UK, we have independent EV specialists carrying out battery pack refurbs. One particular UK specialist carried out a battery refurb on a 10 year old Nissan Leaf. The work took 4 hours, and the cost was £600..... A video of that refurb is on KZbin......

[@kylereese4822]

Also in say year 5 of ownership a new battery becomes available that has more Kw, and range and is a direct swap you get basically a new car, in 5 years gas engines will be more expensive to fuel/run/replace so EV`s are the better option...

[@oakwoodsp534]

@@kylereese4822 - yes that's my hope too. When this battery is toast the case can be refilled with whatever fabulous advancements have been made in those years. At the very least, pack refurbs like those described by @Brian would be much cheaper. I think @RichRebuilds did a similar thing with a Tesla. Bazillions to replace at the dealer when in fact a bad cell or two getting replaced solved the problem.

[@kylereese4822]

​@@oakwoodsp534 There is always this option too... kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4DNh4N_fK-Hhbc

[@friederich66]

hoe can one love such an ugly car we see faces in a car front anf zthe mini as googling "eyes" and a mouth with hanging "mouth corners" which males it look like a bad-tempeerd toad. look in the facce and thee prtoportions of the fiat 500e (which i bought

[@ryan3730]

I have an 2017 Nissan Leaf and drive about 8000-9000 miles / year. It cost me £200 in electric last year and with the recent massive hikes in the UK am predicting £300 this year. That is still so cheap. Fast charge speed is about 24-30min but I alway leave the house with 100%. EV’s are heavy and I think the brake might not be as good as mentioned but I’ve had no problem. One thing to think about when choose a range is Motorway driving. Double the speed Quadruple the energy as Drag increases exponentially to Speed. What I mean is driving 70mph on a motorway will half you range. Caught me out first time I went for a long drive. So you might need an extra stop. Nothing gone wrong on my EV in 5 years and love it. My brother has Solar and doesn’t pay to charge from April until September. EV’s are amazing.

[@johnfrancis9668]

I totally agree with your logic ans spreadsheet. I have owned a Volt (Chev Hybrid) for 6 years. The one item that does cost more is the tires. I do not know why, but the tires are 25% more expensive for an EV. My best guess is they are made from a harder rubber and require a higher pressure (usually 35-38 instead of 28-32 psi)

[@notbatman1001]

Cheers! Very useful data and sensible decisions based upon personal situation. I wonder though about electric rates and how they are quoted. In our area, the electric company charges one rate for generation and one rate for delivery. The generation is ~15.7 cents /kWh and delivery is ~15.04 cents /kWh. Most energy shopping sights do not mention this. I also wonder what exact figure Mini uses in their thinking/promotion. Even so, I wouldn't trade mine for any ICE vehicle.

[@AndysComputer]

That's a good point and I suspect the average rates for kWh in the USA does not actually include that figure. When we were on a flat rate plan we were paying 10.2c for the electricity, and just under 4c per kWh in other fees such as distribution etc.

[@mxmillo]

Nice breakdown...Gas is now 6.00 per gallon. When I had my mini I had to replace my clutch, the timing chain was about to fail so I sold it.

[@reiniernn9071]

Congratulations. At last someone on the net who is making a real and argumented comparison without any emotions. For your information. I'm living in europe and made this comparison for ourself in 2013... And my experiences after my choice for EV confirm your financial spreadsheet as correct. My wife, physican, needs to drive a car to patients, but NOT long distances and we can charge at home ...the same as you told. In 2013 no long range car available ...the Tesla S came later. Also no possibility for long range travels because in that year nearly no fastchargers available. (Main reason for most hugh tax credits....it was near to impossible for going long distances) In 2019 we also changed our long distance car also for an EV , range 450 km which is enough for all uses ...in those 6 years enough fast chargers were build. You'll be shocked about the real differences in europa when buying in that year (and that year only because tax rules changed the next year). Because including all incentivs from government we did not save only 20000 (euro) in those 8 years but more than 60000 euro's. Half of that as tax advantages....other half energy savings and maintenance savings. Now we drive an ioniq 5 AWD project 45....price 59000 which we could buy cash.....because we put aside all those advantages.

[@timandnatd]

I bought a used Smart Electric one the same max for a second car just for commuting. That's what got me hooked. Now we are a 2 EV family. I can't see myself going back to gas.

[@AndysComputer]

Same here. The economics are interesting but honestly I just prefer the driving experience of an EV.

[@annonymat]

I just ordered a Mini Cooper SE and my Deler told me the Mini battery is actually modular. They just had someone in the shop for replacement and they just swapped the bad parts for around 1.000€. Thanks for doing the math, your numbers are quite comparable to our German ones.

[@melluzi]

No doubt EV is cheaper to maintain. Yet it's always fun to watch EVs in the right lane between trucks and that applies to Germany too. No problem to go from Oslo to Lisbon in 3 days on an undersized diesel, meanwhile on Tesla Plaid it will take almost a week.

[@johnv9854]

I have a SE on order that is about to be in production very soon. Looking at these numbers solidifies my purchase even further for me.. Good video! I'm excited to not pump gas again..

[@gregghorner9107]

I had to wait more than three months but it was worth the wait. You will love it!

[@johnv9854]

@@gregghorner9107 I just got word it hits production on Monday the 14th.. So maybe I'll get it sooner then later! right around that 3 month mark... not bad at all

[@johnv9854]

It actually just hit production status today!

[@mortgagemartin3987]

I have just ordered my level 2 mini, it should be here in May I can’t wait

[@AndysComputer]

It seems to be selling well! What color combo did you go for?

[@merrywalsh2809]

Thank you so much for this upload! I am in Hawaii, where I see a lot of Teslas on the road. Both gas and electric costs a lot here, but I think they offer the two tier pricing for electric, so if I get that, then EV is a no brainer. I’ll run the calcs anyway. I do live up a mountain. Does that mean I will be stuck in the slow lane? On second thought, it would still be worth it.

[@Bdzynes]

Thanks for the excellent review. I own a 2019 Mini Countryman se. Having the front windows replaced at the moment my loaner from the dealership is a 2019 Mini Countryman Hybrid. The loaner is in mint condition and has only 26,000 miles on it. On top of that it has all the extra' packages already installed. They are giving it at base price of 37. After watching and doing the numbers myself I am ready to cut the check NOW!!! lol.

[@Bdzynes]

With gas here in Colorado being 5.00 and rising the cost of electricity is far cheaper. Planning on relocating to the west coast where gas is 8.00 so having electric will be great. Pretty much every Mc Donalds is installing power stations as well as every Costco/sams club.

[@stephenvictor8961]

Proper job. Thank you for sharing your prowess. Brilliant. Thanks again.

[@Pretz_Starwind]

As a Mini Cooper driver myself I have to say this was an amazing video comparing the SE to the Base and S models. I personally just bought a 2013 Mini Cooper S Coupe after my 08 MCS was totaled out by my insurance company from road debris destroying the intercooler and radiator, along with other unknown damage as they just told me the cost and not what was actually wrong with the car. Given this comparison I would actually enjoy going for the SE myself, though I would wish they would do it with the Coupe body style. However in my area in NC I would have a few issues, first is a large lack of charging stations, my town is small and change doesn't really happen here a lot and it is slow when it does come. So I would have to rely on home charging, however I live in an apartment with no front outside outlets, so other than having a long extension cord fed through a window or door, or using an outlet bulb in my porch light, I'm not sure how that would work for me. Also I work as a pizza deliverer so I can put a good 100 miles in each day I do delivery, for comparison I got about 400 miles per tank in my 08 Mini, the 13 hasn't been filled back up enough to get a good average, and I would fill up about once per week. My restaurant is open only Wed-Sat and I only really deliver on Thursdays and Saturdays with some backup driving on Fridays. So along with the work driving my personal driving uses up most of the rest as I have a good 15 minutes to any nearby city for things like shopping, eating out, etc. What would stop me from going with an SE would be the idea of being stuck on the side of the road when I ran out of charge, especially if it were during a delivery. Also the time it would take to stop and charge at a charging station, which if a "fast charge" is about 30 minutes long that could be detrimental for a delivery driver. I do think the Electric Vehicle is a great thing, and love that Mini already has one out, however the infrastructure to support it in daily life is still lacking in many areas. Hopefully that changes, and quickly, in the coming years.

[@mjkay8660]

some hoa do not allow charging. i luv my mini but i only put 4mi a week on mine

[@Pretz_Starwind]

@@mjkay8660 you should be able to change that by claiming it is an obstruction of livelihood and tell the HOA that you will take them to court for it. They can't legally prevent you from using your car as intended.

[@xuchun5371]

i wonder 30 , 40 years later , how many used auto battery left on earth ?

[@tempemail5337]

If this was a second vehicle for short term around the city travel and I had the fast charger. It would probably help me reduce cost of operating. And hopefully the car lasts at least 10-20yrs with few maintenance and maybe battery swaps eventually. Not sure how safety and emissions works with all these electrics. Still researching options so one day when I’m ready, it will be the best informed decision.

[@oerthling]

"Emissions"? From an electric car? 0 :-) If you mean CO2 over the cars lifetime? Much less for the BEV compared to an ICE car.

[@K03sport]

I'm curious too, as a Prius would be a 7 yr break even point for me compared to a Camry...I don't drive either, but if one chooses a Pruis, because hybrid, how much actual gas (put in both cars) evens out and the Prius begins to edge ahead. Obviously, the more you drive, the sooner (less time) the prius begins "saving" you money. How long do ppl keep cars? How long do ppl keep Hybrids? How long will ppl keep a full EV?

[@hngdog]

Great analysis. I was thinking of doing a similar spreadsheet myself. A factor l realized is that Minis are sometimes prone to expensive repair. I have a 2013 Cooper S I bought used a 5 years ago with 30k miles. I have put another 50k on it since, and have already had to put in a clutch ($1200), a thermostat ($450), brakes ($350)…. The electric version wouldn’t have needed any of that. Also, I’m in Texas as well, and I think the state incentive is already booked beyond the initial limit.

[@mjkay8660]

well 10 yrs for a repair isnt bad

[@wturber]

A very reasonable set of comparisons. Good job.

[@Brian-om2hh]

If/when an EV battery fails, it is *not* always necessary to replace it. Unless you own a Tesla, there is the option of having a battery pack refurbishment, usually at a fraction of the cost of a full replacement. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles here in the UK, have been offering a refurbishment service for several years. They carried out a refurb on a 10 year old Nissan Leaf. Removing the battery took around 10 minutes, and once the individual battery cells had been load tested ( there are almost 100 individual cells in a 24kw Leaf battery) then the failing cells can be removed and replaced with good ones. The refurb took 4 hours, and cost the owner £600.... The video of this battery refurb is here on KZbin.....

[@jablonskimarcin]

Electric cars do need to replace their break pads and rotors just like any other car also there are other oils and fluids that need changing.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@jablonskimarcin Brake pads can last considerably longer in some electric cars due to regenerative braking. One particular Kia I know of, only needed new brake pads at 115,000 miles.... Servicing costs of most EV's are normally a fraction of ICE cars. As you might expect, with the EV having only around 20 moving parts..

[@bigmacdaddy1234]

I tried the Mini Cooper EV and it was not a good fit for me, so I happily traded it in and went back to a gas powered Mini Cooper. The cost savings were not enough to deal with the EV headaches. In multiple instances, I planned my route accordingly and multiple charging stations were broken so I ran out of juice and had to get towed and stay in a hotel overnight while waiting to get charged up again. Very frustrating. Next, I could not take a trip upstate NY because there were not enough 'reliable' charging stations along the way, so the EV Mini had to stay home. Next, it had some software problems that the dealer could not fix because they simply did not know how to fix it (so they had to reach out to corporate). It took a month to get that sorted out. Ironically, the loaner vehicle was gas powered. Next, the electricity went down in my area for a few days so I couldn't charge the car again. Total nightmare. I need to fill and go and don't have time to deal with this electric nonsense. From my perspective there is no savings whatsoever if I am always going to be stressed out everytime I get in the car.

[@AndysComputer]

The reliability of third party charging networks is concerning and a major blocker to the wider adoption of EV's in my opinion. A non working charger should be a rare thing. Given the amount of use they currently likely see I don't understand why so many are faulty, although anecdotally it seems it's the payments part that is most often not working but in 2022 that is something that should be slick.

[@anthonym1475]

That’s been my concern that’s why as much as I like this car I’m also considering a plug in hybrid

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

@@AndysComputer if you don't understand why so many charging stations don't work, then allow me to introduce you to the human race & welcome you to the future.

[@santa_claus-north_pole]

Thank you for that report!! Very informative.

[@motorv8N]

@@RothBeyondTheGrave LOL - spat my beer out over that.

[@Oliver1071]

Great write up. I wish I could do the SE with my 80 mile commute I had to go with an EV with more capacity. I really doubt the SE could make it. Still love my mini-s and countryman-s but had to get a Tesla for the commute. Hopefully they will increase the range in future models just a bit so I can replace my S.

[@AndysComputer]

The next gen will alledgedly have more, but will it retain the Mini fun, who knows...

[@knollibe]

Chevy bolt will make it. 230 to 265 mi range.

[@js-hl5hv]

Unless you live in a really cold climate, the MINI will easily do 80 miles a day. The EPA rating is ludicrously low, the real range (when not driven like a boy racer) is between 140 and 150 miles depending on conditions. 80 is a walk in the park. Granted, you will probably need a battery replacement earlier, however we don't know how long the MINI batteries will last. BMW warrants them for 8 years (or xxx miles - where xxx is a number I can't remember :) ), but they are likely to go a lot longer than that. I've had mine almost 2 years and the range has actually increased over that time. I get 230-250km (for a full charge) all year round. I charge once a week and couldn't be happier. If you live in a cold place (where I live it rarely goes below 20C) your mileage may vary (pun intended). *edit* reading your comment again, you may mean 80 miles each way, for 160 miles a day (wow, that is a lot of driving per day). If that is the case, you would only need a small charge at the destination to make the return easily. A granny charger (ie wall socket) charger will give you more than enough for the round trip after a day of work.

[@zoomyzoon5236]

I wish this was done for 3-5 years which is more realistic for cost projection still this is an excellent analysis. Thank you!

[@zan720]

I live in Honolulu and am quite surprised how many really old Nissan Leafs are on the road (well less than 100 miles range)- so depending on where you live I think there can be quite a demand for used EVs. Loving my Mini SE, and though sometimes I get mildly miffed if I can't find a charger at the exact minute I want it, the joy of how the car drives makes me forget

[@AndysComputer]

Yes I see a few Leaf's around even here in Texas so some people have realized that for them a short range EV is sufficient for day to day errands / commute. Much as it is for us.

[@ellistreloar2047]

In the UK second hand EVs are attracting a premium value since petrol and diesel prices hit the equivalent of over $10 imperial gallon . I switched to an EV in Sep 20 and have averaged 2.3cent cost per mile, including all charging losses and using public DC chargers about 15%. My E Niro is currently worth the same as I paid for it ie, no depreciation in 18 months due to high demand for EVs. In real cost terms, purchasing, running and maintaining this car compared to a Ford Fiesta 1ltr ecoboost petrol, we are saving in excess of $3250 every year. We got a measly $3900 govt grant at purchase, so no real advantage there. PS Ten year old leafs are running well here, typically with in excess of 85% of battery state of charge!

[@sharonbraselton4302]

100 mike plenty range oeop jus over reacting val duwñ

[@piwikiwi3409]

Great video! Very educational even if the Mini might not be everyone’s cup of tea 👍 (I have an old gas Mini)

[@xuchun5371]

he opened my brain cell

[@johnporter5828]

Nice job ! We have had two Bolts for 4 years now. Plus a paid-for solar system. We're basically driving for free. No repairs over the 4 year. Also, we just got two new batteries from Chevrolet for free. What a no-brainer ! We love the Bolts....

[@rogerbrand6214]

Thanks for the video, I recently bought a used Hyundai Ioniq with the same 28kwh battery capacity as the Mini. It does the daily trip to work and back (100 km / 60 miles) for about $1.70. A Hyundai I30 would cost about $25! The saving on fuel alone is enough to cover the difference in repayments on the car, so could I argue that I'm sort of driving for free?

[@AndysComputer]

Great EV!

[@rogerbrand6214]

@@AndysComputer I think so, was considering a Leaf but IMHO they just aren't great for any trip further than 2x range because of battery heating. The Ioniq has a small battery but can charge at over 2C. BTW, the Mini SE is about 50% more than the S here in NZ!

[@csjrogerson2377]

How on earth do you calculate $25 for an I30 doing 60 miles?

[@rogerbrand6214]

@@csjrogerson2377 fuel price in Aotearoa New Zealand is $3 per litre, 8.2 litres per 100 km

[@csjrogerson2377]

@@rogerbrand6214 You want to come to Thailand and use my Mazda 2 skyactiv-D. Fuel 1.46 NZD/li and 4.4li/100km. I've driven one of the Minis in the UK and you can garage them where the sun doesnt shine. Awful clutch and gearbox and whoever was in-charge of the HFI, MMI needs to be boiled in oil

[@HittingImage]

Just a comment on the brakes. With disk brakes, there is a problem with rust, as they (as you note) get very little use on EVs. I do not know if there are mandatody checks of the car in the US, but in the EU, there is a bi-yearly check the car has to pass (above a certain age). If the brake disks are rusty, they have to be changed. For this reason, some EVs now get drum brakes on the rear wheels. These do not have the same problem. Not a major issue, but something to be aware of.

[@carlbusque1856]

Great analysis, really enjoyed it, thanks

[@AndysComputer]

My pleasure!

[@carlbusque1856]

@@AndysComputer just bought a mini se last week, partly because of you video. It really struck home to my wife. Thanks again!

[@notbatman1001]

A quick look at the electric bill for the month (3 weeks of which with the Mini) cost me $0.05 / mile based on 734 miles. That includes climatizing the Mini before departure each day M-F, so at this point it's a no-brainer since my ex ICE vehicle would have cost $0.11 / mile.

[@AndysComputer]

Nice!

[@kevinmills5293]

He in Spain I pay 43 cents per kWh at home and around 70 cents at public chargers ( there are some free destinations chargers) so an EV doesn’t looks so attractive here.

[@colinwiseman]

@@kevinmills5293 then add solar power into the mix. I know not all of Spain is super sunny all year round, but surely there is enough on average to offset a lot of that cost?

[@kevinmills5293]

@@colinwiseman we are already off grid and on solar. I don’t know much more solar energy we would need for and EV but it’s the assertion that EV’s are cheaper to run which erks me. In some cases this is true but not all, and to quote electricity at 5 cents a kilowatt hour when people can be paying over 40 cents, makes me mad.

[@colinwiseman]

@@kevinmills5293 yes but the video is a person living in Texas, quoting Texas values and American values. The assertion wasn't "all", it was "for America and then specifically Texas". I absolutely understand I'd need to do the costing myself, but it was great to see some places are super cheap and should be going electric.

[@RVPartsGerald]

Brilliant comparison. You did not mention tyres. MINI's tend to be hard on them.

[@biga4971]

Great work, thanks. Unfortunately that isn't the case in Australia :(

[@StealthWorkx]

Nice video. I hope it convinces my nephew to get an electric mini like mine😀

[@mafosa8519]

what about if you install solar panels and batterys to charge your Ev? if your family has two EV then once you get past that initial purchase then the electricity's mostly free.

[@motorv8N]

Thanks very much for this detailed comparison. We are in week three of our mini SE experience. It’s really interesting to see the different rates of electricity in the comments. The most expensive high peak part of the day where I live cost $.17 per kilowatt hour. Middle of the night off peak it drops to eight cents. What we’re discovering is that a day of commuting plus a few evenings errands is costing us approximately $1.50... Strictly commuting on the days when it gets parked after work and doesn’t move, our cheapest charge so far has been $1.04. So let’s say it’s about five bucks a week in electricity just to drive to work but we easily do the same again on errands visiting family etc. etc. so let’s call at $10 a week. That kind of driving in our 3.5l Toyota Venza with current gas prices averages to about $80 a week. That’s a gob smacking amount of money to be saving. So now onto the Mini itself. I wouldn’t have touched one of these cars with the clichéd 10 foot pole as an ICE vehicle. I have friends and co workers with BMWs and hear almost nothing but problems from them. Some plastic timing system internals, problematic induction systems, wonky engine management computers, and more. Along with eye-watering repair bills that the European vehicles seem to specialize in of course. Most of those problem disappear along with the ICE motor and the thousands of associated parts. At least that’s what we’re betting on - lol. I had resigned myself that when considering replacing our ageing and rusting Mazda 3 with an electric vehicle we would end up driving a soulless appliance not much more interesting than our coffee maker. The Mazda was an engaging and fun car. The only reason we actually have the Mini is it has been very difficult under the current economic and geopolitical climate to get one’s hands on any EV where I live. I happen to come across this 2021 as a low mileage lease return from someone who decided it wasn’t for them I guess. I’ve always loved the lines of the new Mini but it just was too small for our lives when it came out 20 years ago. But now as semi empty-nesters and using it as a commuter car (the Toyota will move into semi retirement, saved for long trips that require lots of luggage and range) the Mini looked like it was worth maybe a closer look. Being being a car guy who loves a snorty exhaust and a beefy transmission to row who owns and has owned all sort of old iron, I was expecting to be completely disengaged and underwhelmed by the driving experience of this little car. How wrong I was. Fellow motorists must think I’m deranged because I’m constantly grinning as I scoot around town in this little rocket zipping from light to light and corner to corner in a near silent rush. Once the creepy pedestrian protection alert fades away above 40 km/h there’s a faint but wonderfully purposeful turbine whine going on somewhere down below. Fantastic handling and very sprightly acceleration is going to keep me entertained for a long time. Plus that dollar-a-day cost to drive of course...

[@AndysComputer]

That's a very good way to look at it. Given the price of new cars, a short range and thus cheaper EV such as the Mini can be a great choice for day to day use and save real money, and the larger gas car can be there for the longer trips until ,the price or technology improves such that it can also be replaced.

[@rp9674]

Agreed, I own a BMW i3 and a Fiat 500e 3.5yr. (used EVs) well the BMW is much lower maintenance than gas, it has had more problems than my Fiat, fortunately under warranty, a dash panel and DC fast charger service. The Fiat has needed an alignment and 12v battery only, which is just drop in, no computer reset needed.

[@alisonp5062]

@@AndysComputer "Save money" after you've blown 30K....and could get a 3 year old ICE version for less than half that

[@gildiaz3279]

@@alisonp5062 Again I guess you didn't actually watch the video - $21K. What 3 yr old pos ICE are you gonna find for $10.5K. So funny you really have no clue. Now that you paid $10.5K - wait till you have to pay for the maintenance pos ICE vehicle.

[@steelcowboy2751]

So you’re a car guy with a Toyota Venza; Mazda 3 and now a Mini, I’m not buying it. 😆. No doubt that EVs are cheaper to run daily but car guys know there is more to a car than have cheap it is to operate. And with a car that’s only slightly bigger than a go cart with a range of 100 miles; as a car guy, I’ll pass. And BTW; I have a BMW M340 xi that’s gets 33.5 MPG and is 0-60 under 4 seconds. It’s my 4th BMW and I’ve never had any significant problems with any. I’ve also owned a Mini S before which I bought when gas was 4/gal in 2012 and after the cute factor wore off; I hated it and sold it.

[@MrMarkOlson]

The only problem with this comparison: The gas version is a long-range car, and the electric version has only a range of 114 miles.

[@bobbailey7024]

And it takes minutes to refuel - not over an hour.

[@willy4170]

@@bobbailey7024 why it so hard to understand that it takes over an hour only if the battery is completely dead and you recharge from a slow plug, like a 3kv one. But no one does that, like no one refuel the the car only when the tank is dry, so if you recharge from a fast charge, when the battery has still a decent amount of charge left, it will not take more than 20 minutes, basically the time of taking a coffe and using the bathroom. And even if at home you don’t have the wall box for the fast charging, the car normally is charged at night, when it would parked on hours on end anyway.

[@dps615]

I guess if you're driving that many miles EVERY DAY you wouldnt be buying a mini. The average driver only drives 20 miles/day, well within the 114 miles provided. Even if you do the occasional long distance a 30 min coffee stop is no big deal for most people. Next excuse for not buying one?

[@MrMarkOlson]

@@dps615 I drive more than 120 miles in a stretch 4 times a month, so I would have to rent someone else's car 4 times per month while also paying for my own car. That's not a reasonable solution for me. And, no, I don't want to be forced to take the time to stop to recharge during that mostly rural drive every time.

[@dps615]

@@MrMarkOlson a Tesla would be an ideal solution for you. I often drive 120 miles without stopping. There's also other EVs that can easily manage 300 miles or more.

[@matthiasknutzen6061]

Very good only analysis, one thing I would say is a bit of is using premium fuel in the ICE it can run just fine on regular gasoline.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

hybrudé beßt bet

[@AndysComputer]

It can, but you shouldn't really. You lose power and mileage. But if the car is meant to run on regular then premium really is a waste of money.

[@codyshann]

After watching this video, the resale value of Mini EV is not $0. It's priceless!

[@AndysComputer]

That $7,500 tax credit will disappear if the current version of the proposed Infrastructure Bill passes. So if I was still on the fence about buying one I'd be moving fast to get one at this point...

[@VPB1970]

I tried for 6 months. I love BEVs but had to go back to gasoline. 2 (main) issues : I can't charge at home and in the office more and more people started buying EVs so most of the days I can't charge. Also, i started to have the need to travel more and more to places more then 300kms away and back in the same day. It became madly stressful. Love the Mini E but for me,for the time being i went back to the gasoline Cooper. I will probably be back in different circumstances. PS: you forgot the cost of installing a home plug which,where I live is not negligible (although will not change the obvious advantages of the E).

[@SpottedSharks]

Yes, if you can't charge at home an EV is impractical.

[@AndysComputer]

A short range EV clearly wouldn't work for you and even a long range one would be a commitment given you can't charge at home. I personally don't recommend EV's to anyone who can't charge at home as of right now, at least not until larger batteries get cheaper and fast chargers are everywhere like every big grocery store (not just some Walmarts).

[@andrewd4906]

I bought my daughter a second hand nissan leaf. If we keep it for four years it will be paid for out of the fuel saving. It doesn't have much of a range but it is enough for her commute. It's battery was less than 75% when we got it. It is so good I got a second hand leaf too.

[@bradcomis1066]

Solid analysis here. The SE is also more fun to drive and quieter than the standard Cooper. So you save money and get a better car. What's not to like? You guys in the US really get some amazing rebates on these cars too. It makes them so very cheap!

[@xocomaox]

I wish the range wasn't so terrible. It's unusable.

[@pauldhartley]

In the UK the SE costs £27,000, the basic mini £17,000 and the Cooper S £22,000 - so quite a difference in price. There may be a small refund saving (maybe £1,500) towrds buying the electric car, I am not sure. You might also need to add the cost of installing a home charger. Over time (your analysis is 8 years) the electricity companies will probably charge more as more people switch to electric cars and overnight charging. But it does make financial sense at the costs you incur unless, as some have stated, you cannot charge at home or have to make regular long trips.

[@AndysComputer]

Someone did point out the SE is more expensive in the UK that the petrol version S, I can't see why though? Electricity will go up, but petrol will also continue to do so in my opinion.

[@svx94]

what a great story! thanks for sharing!

[@MrGundawindy]

So compelling. So the real calculation in regards to battery replacement after the 8 year warranty is not whether you made a mistake getting the electric version or not, but only is it worth replacing the battery or should you just get a new car again?

[@nolajacob5306]

Replacing the car would mean a huge increase in landfills for EVs only 8 or 9 yrs old. This cost should be included in the calculations. I've kept my petrol car (still looks like new) for 20 years. So if I calculate $15,000 for a new battery at 10 and again at 20 years, then it seems to me the EV is no longer economical. I heard a car enthusiast radio show where it was stated that those 'fast' charges actually shorten the battery life. That was a few years ago, so not sure if batteries have been improved.

[@MrGundawindy]

@@nolajacob5306 I think that's true, but I also think there will grow a large aftermarket for repairing batteries. There are already people that will replace dead cells in Teslas. Also, 10 years is a long time in battery tech and there may be many better options within 10 to 20 years to keep these cars running. But yes, for now the overall life calculation should only include what is available today at todays prices.

[@peterd5496]

You should deduct a few dollars from the 'electric' mini savings for bushes/shocks/springs over the petrol as it's 20-25% heavier. Interesting breakdown though.

[@-V-K-]

Did you mention they will not replace the battery unless it falls beyond a certain %.

[@tadghsmith1457]

If you were buying those cars used (the majority of car buyers buy used) the calculation would be quite a bit different. The 8 year old electric Mini cooper will soon need a new battery. The video sets the comparison at 8 years. That is about the time the warranty on an EV battery ends. A replacement battery will cost around $7000, more or less eliminating the cost of ownership advantage of the used EV over the gasoline car.

[@AndysComputer]

It's hard to predict the future. Will the Mini need a new battery in 8 years? No-one truly knows. We can only look at 6 year old BMW i3's (same underpinnings) and guess based on that. And they are doing well as are most EV's with liquid cooled batteries. But no-one can guarantee anything (either way).

[@allangibson2408]

The battery replacement was covered in the analysis…

[@michaelmclaughlin1958]

Can you please run numbers for the cheapest Tesla, versus a gasoline Lexus similar in original price and a hybrid car too? Please include maximum coverage insurance premiums too as I’m required to carry those levels

[@AndysComputer]

I will do more comparisons between different vehicles. It's hard to compare though as you need to find a vehicle of the same price with roughly the same cargo capacity, "features" and performance. There is no Lexus that has the performance much less the tech of a Tesla at a similar price point (or at all really)... I'm not sure what to truly compare a Tesla with, you need an M badged 3 or 4 series to compare with a model 3 for example but those are much more expensive cars so they lose out of the gate... I also think people spending $60k or more probably don't care that much about the economics of running either vehicle truth be told. That's why so many people buy say a new Range Rover over a new Lexus when the latter has better reliability (and thus running costs) and residuals. But if you don't care about that, you can buy the vehicle that is more stylish, more enjoying to drive and has better tech, ie the Range Rover. And most people with that kind of money do... I will do some comparisons on Ford, Hyundai, Kia, VW etc. But Tesla is a bit tougher as there's nothing like their cars really...

[@michaelmclaughlin1958]

@@AndysComputer I appreciate the problem. I guess forget about Tesla. Two things about the vlog. First I’m very surprised the vehicles had nearly identical prices. I’m used to seeing EV’s and hybrids priced considerably higher than their ICE equivalents. Second what about insurance premiums? I’m guessing both collision and comprehensive would be more costly for an EV

[@garyquinlan4075]

It does of course depend on what country you are in and what the relevant new car prices are, what the tax incentives are (if any), cost of electricity versus fuel, cost of battery replacement etc. In Australia, the EV costs $17,598 more to buy and there are ZERO government incentives on purchase. There is absolutely no way over a typical 5 year ownership that you are going to save that in electricity cost vs petrol (gasoline) cost and maintenance costs. And the jury is out on what a 5 year old EV will bring in resale if the buyer perceives the battery life may be only 3 years. A Nissan Leaf made headlines in Australia in 2019 with a dealer charging a replacement price of $33,000 which was substantially greater than the used car value of $12,000. Nissan subsequently reduced it to $10,500 fitted but still, that is almost the used car value.

[@elmohead]

There is a $3000 rebate and stamp duty refund for EVs in NSW.

[@AndysComputer]

I can't speak for Australia but I know it's a harder sell for you guys. Currently used EV prices (on all but the early LEAF's) seem very good, but whether that is temporary remains to be seen.

[@elmohead]

@@AndysComputer Australia is backwards tbh. We have a ton of sunlight, perfect for solar. But our govt relies on burning coal because there is THAT much coal.

[@SuperFredAZ]

Am I missing something? I can't find a Mini Cooper Electric available for sale in the U.S.?

[@jamiegarton8518]

In Australia the SE mini is about $14,000 more than the S model. Australia also doesn't have any rebates for electric vehicles. Hopefully that will change in the future.

[@JohnBeeblebrox]

Same price differential in the UK. Plus I do 25k miles a year and need a decent range (in sub zero weather!). EV's not quite there yet for me. Give me a bigger car, something I can drive about all day in and, ideally, fast charge and I'll consider it.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

Thank you for this. I was hoping you would compare insuring the two cars. Here in CT, when I priced the insurance of the two cars there was a substantial difference in price. Now that you have bought the electric car, did you find that your insurance became far more expensive? For me it was more than another $1000 a year for the same car!

[@AndysComputer]

I would have liked to include insurance but that varies so much based on personal circumstances and amount of coverage selected etc. My wife and I were previously insuring a 2019 Land Rover Discovery + 2020 Kia Soul on a single policy and now we have a 2021 Tesla Model Y + 2022 Mini Cooper SE and the monthly policy cost for the same coverage through the same company is identical to within a dollar and the replacement value of the cars works out about the same... That said I did see someone online say they had a Mini Cooper S that they replaced with an SE and their monthly policy increased by $10. That kind of difference shouldn't really change the economics in any meaningful way though.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

@@AndysComputer Thanks for the feedback. In CT where I live (and Consumer Reports noted the same thing) the insurance is drastically different. I guess you are fortunate in Texas where it is not. It must vary a lot nationally. CR believes it is because of the the limited information EV cars they have in the cold weather states like mine. Thanks again.

[@gildiaz3279]

In my insurance experience adding the Mini SE to my State Farm policy (with 4 other cars) was quoted at an additional $900 plus per year. So I shopped around and got the Mini SE included by Progressive for the exact same price I was paying for the other 4 cars under State Farm. So in the end the Mini was insured for free. All 5 cars have full coverage with $500 deductible. So my advice would be to shop around. BTW I was with State Farm for 32 years.

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

@@gildiaz3279 Thanks for sharing. I did price around but the cost difference was at minimum $900 more. When the insurance companies have more information about the newer EV cars I think it will get closer but right now it greatly reduces anything you save on electricity and maintenance. It is close to an additional $10,000 over ten years because I keep my cars longer than that.

[@oldenshort1346]

All very good as long as you dont need to go anywhere while you are charging the car, guess you would just wait until it charged to get what you need, solar charging hope you intend to get a good battery storage system when you move, enough to charge two cars at night.

[@ckressyt]

I just ordered a Mini SE and have spent time researching charging options. Does it make sense to include the cost of adding Level 2 charging? I think you mentioned Level 2 so that means 240V service and a third-party charger unless I'm mistaken. I loved the video and appreciated the detail. Your thinking came across as very clear and level-headed. Thank you!

[@AndysComputer]

It depends on your use case. I have a video on charging coming up but as far as I know (not tested yet): The included Level 1 (120v) charger will add about 5% of charge per hour. So overnight (say 10 hours) can add 50%. If your daily needs can be met by 50% worth of battery (which amounts to 40 miles per day on the highway in sub freezing temperatures, or 80 miles around town/suburbs in moderate temperatures) then you don't need to go to Level 2. A Level 2 charger including wiring by an electrician cost me $1,000 but will add the same 50% charge to the battery in under 2.5 hours, so four times the speed. Based on my wife's usage of the car, do we need it? No.

[@rp9674]

Partly, your evse will probably stay with you longer than your car. I got by on 110v home charging for a year with a shorter range EV. It really made me appreciate L2 220v when I finally got it. 3.5 yr w/ EVs, love it

[@motorv8N]

FWIW we lasted a week with the included Level 1 charger and ordered a Level 2 Wall Box. Two days to charge the Mini from near zero isn’t an option for us and the local fast dc machines want $10 for 30 min. Unfortunately, our older house has a piddly 100amp service. If we wanted a legit install we’d need to get creative. That came in the form of a charge controller mounted next to our panel that monitors the draw on the entire house. If the required 220v/30amps (plus a healthy surge buffer) isn’t available the unit goes on standby until that juice is safely available then it kicks on the Level 2 system. Cost an extra $800 but way cheaper than a 200 amp panel upgrade these days. It hasn’t delayed or stopped charging yet but I like the insurance. I don’t want to worry that the draw from the oven, dryer, AC and Mini might all hit the panel at the same time. The controller juggles it all without tripping breakers. Anyhoo, a full charge takes about 4 hours from next to zero and about an hour ten for a daily top up. Much better. We also got a portable Level 2 hookup as the in-laws have a 220 circuit in their garage. The portable unit maxes out at 16amps tho so it’s a full 4 hours to top up after driving the 115 km to their place. They’re out in the middle of nowhere so we’re happy to wait.

[@mrjimmcdaniels]

What makes the most sense is to get some solar panels on your roof.

[@andrewmullen4003]

As an aside, I'd suggest you buy a home battery, and charge that at night, and save yourself even more on your electricity, and it would even helped paired with solar, great video thanks.

[@grosvenorclub]

Having lived in the UK , Canada and Australia I can see an electric vehicle could be great for around town , in countries with generally lots of plug ins and in metropolitan areas . But in say Canada in the winter arctic conditions and a long run what does the heating do to the range and similarly in Australia out of the cities , height of summer 40C and say 8 hrs of driving with the aircon flat out and few stops how far I wonder ?

[@moestrei]

I live inland Australia and do 850km regularly in a Model S with 330.000km on it. 30.000km/a. Combining charging with the meal breaks. Works for me and I'm getting really sick about those only-good-around-town-BS. It's the other way round: You stay fit and alert because of the quiet, smooth but powerful drive plus regular breaks. I would say you can do 1000km / day ......in a decent EV (not i3 / Mini SE).

[@wilkoone9155]

Just about to take delivery of our 5th BEV, my wife's car is a Renault Zoe 135GT with humungus range! The cost savings are a no brainer, & the other thing I have discovered is that they hold their value extremely well with hardly any depreciation.

[@AndysComputer]

I wish they sold that here...

[@hallvardpaulsen]

Actually the regenerative brakes means the break pads will not be activated very often. If used in the winter where road salt is used this means the break disk are likely to rust and the pads more likely to drag, causing excessive wear. At least that is my experience here in Norway with our KIA e-SOUL. (And also many other electric cars. It is also a problem on "traditional" cars, but the regenerative breaking seems to make the problem more significant. Actually our KIA dealer has added break service as a standard service point on the annual service. Also with regards to cost of replacing the battery: Here it is just marginally below (maybe 80% of( the price of a new KIA. This appears also to be the case for other E-cars, and as a result they get scraped more easily after accidents as the insurance companies choose to get a new car in stead of repairing the damaged one. Again that is how it is here in Norway where more than 50% of new car sales is electric.

[@uncoolben79]

Thanks for the info!

[@AndysComputer]

Any time!

[@HT-vd4in]

Fun fact: The mini cooper SE has one of the strongest regen braking out there. I always activate the lover regen mode and I almost never have to manually break.

[@deeksdotum9334]

Enjoyed the video! Where is the Mini built?

[@AndysComputer]

Thanks! Currently the electric model is built in Oxford, UK.

[@beauthestdane]

Based on comments regarding an accident and needing to replace the battery on a 2022 mini cooper SE, it is about $5700.

[@hoddinr]

I am an intuitive thinker and decision maker, but I really appreciate you taking the time to put your thoughts on a spreadsheet. They validate my thinking. My Mini SE should be here (Florida) in about a month.

[@AndysComputer]

I'm sure you'll love it!

[@darkknight145]

I think you're being optimistic about the new battery only costing $15,000, I remember customers being up in arms over the cost of the Nissan Leaf EV replacement battery.... It cost more than buying a new Nissan Leaf.

[@joelstein4657]

I consider I've got the best of all worlds. I drive a Fiat 500e 99% of the time and when I need to go on a trip I have a Toyota Prius that gets almost 60 mpg. In May 2022 High test gas is around $6.00 a gallon. I've gotta admit that I find it really difficult not to gloat when I drive past a gas station full of SUVs and pickup trucks with $100 on the meter.

[@elijahc.9378]

I would’ve loved an SE but went with an S due to the fact I drive a minimum of 100 miles per day just to get to and from work, plus any other driving I do and tend to drive a lot on weekends, if they can get the range to 200+ I’ll most certainly be considering trading it in.

[@tonyclixby]

My EV has a 300 mile range. A mini is not the best.

[@xuchun5371]

battery pack is smaller

[@filoniz]

England, made in England

[@antilogism]

Seems like an easy ace in Texas! In California I was driving well over 20k mi/yr (house cost is insane where there are jobs) and so "fuel" saving would be better still. Mostly just dry heat too so we use what Californians call "Open 40 A/C" where we open the windows and drive 40---at least until grid-lock sets in. Location, location, location it seems. By the way, your estimate of having no major repairs in a mere 80 k is more than realistic. I've driven well over a million miles having killed one transmission counter-gear, spun a big-end bearing and one engine (rebuild on a 1971 Toyota Crown with only 150 k on it). Granted, I usually sell my cars before at around 200 k so I don't know what happens to them past that. That may change since my wife is driving a Audi---not a car with a stellar reputation but so far so good. It's pretty though.

[@killcat1971]

Another thing to consider if you did need to get the battery pack replaced after 8 years, it will be a better battery, the technology is in the same state of flux as smartphones were 5 or 10 years ago.

[@xuchun5371]

but i still wonder 30 , 40 years later , how many used auto battery left on earth ?

[@Bob-ts2tu]

definately interesting, however in the uk the charging infrastructure is piss poor, and the high cost of the car, along with the worry about where to charge would be too worrisome for me to consider an EV, even though i dont do a great deal of miles. hopefully things will change as the years roll by, but ATM it all seems a bit of a con, so it's not for me any time soon, but i like the way you presented the options, so food for thought if i decide to work out my own figures later. Thanks

[@AndrewTSq]

Checked prices here Cooper SE 2022 - $370k, while the Cooper S is $299k, so $71 cheaper. Tax is $36 for the SE and $100 for the S. S 1500km per year - $1800 per year, if electricity was free, and no repairs on either car, you can drive the S for 39 years before its more expensive than the electric car.

[@sriram737ng]

Excellent breakdown

[@3rdworldgarage450]

I think you are a bit light on mileage per year. In the US, it is fairly common to drive 12-15,000 miles per year, 10,000 would be unusually low for a working person ( I drive 20k miles a year and only commute 26 miles a day). The real issue I have with the electric MINI is that it comes from a low quality manufacturer known for electrical and component problems (BMW). The engine is usually not the issue in most cars as they last 300k miles or more. It's things like the steering and suspension components and the electronics that the issues lie in. Electric car drive units have not shown to have the reliability of gasoline engines. Many Tesla cars have had 2 or 3 electric motors in the first 100k miles. Also, the MINI is a poor example of an electric car as it has very low range when new and that will decrease with time. It could be that after 80k miles the car has less than 80 miles of range, whereas a gasoline car will retain 95% or more of it's range at that point. It is simply too small of a chassis to hold a large enough battery pack to make sense for the majority of US and Canadian drivers. Perhaps a better comparison would be between a Toyota Corolla Hybrid and a Mini SE. The hybrid also benefits from regen braking, and gets around 50 mpg on regular fuel. Plus, the Toyota hybrid synergy drive system has a notoriously long life cycle with just some basic maintenance, with many of them seeing over 300k miles (some on their original traction batteries.) I drive a Prius C hybrid with 130,000 miles on it and it runs me about $65 per month to run it with $4 per gallon fuel, but I only use it for commuting 5 days a week. Weekends are split between a 98 Frontier (425,000 miles) and a 05 MINI Cooper. (The truck only sees 600 miles a month and the MINI maybe 500. The Prius C isn't good for hauling things or fun to drive, so I supplement it with the other two cars to fulfill those needs.)

[@Brian-om2hh]

Rather different in the UK. The typical daily commute is around 20 miles. Average annual mileage here is 8 to 9000 miles. Maybe if you had to pay $8 to $9 for a gallon of gas/petrol, your annual mileage might be lower too.....

[@josephblansjaar5871]

Thank you!

[@DavidFMayerPhD]

ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Five Stars, Highest Rating.

[@RealButcher]

Tja, still keeping my 12 years old Toyota iQ, with CVT and not one problem ever, and taking the bike (electric) more and more. The car can go at one point, but the bike is great. A big electric bike (+helmet) for long range and an electric walkbike (Sitgo) (no helmet) for in our village. Love it. And there's also a BMW C1-200 motorbike for fun.

[@shenmisheshou7002]

The US Government does not give a rebate, it is a "Tax Credit." As you say, if you don't own enough taxes to account for the entire tax credit, the amount you are short is left on the table. For many states, there is a "rebate" and in most cases, the rebate is not deductible on federal taxes.

[@AndysComputer]

Yes, teh correct term is credit for the reasons you describe.

[@khg8519]

You do use your regular FRICTION brakes all the time the regen is not a great braking source

[@khg8519]

the battery thing -- when you get 8 years you've saved enough to buy a new car

[@dalriada842]

I wouldn't say that suspension, wheel bearing and tyre wear are going to be the same unless both cars are the same weight. The battery in EVs tends to make them considerably heavier than regular cars in the same market segment. Also, as I'm light on the brakes, I find my rotors tend to rust out due to lack of use, though I live in a cold, wet climate. Are EV rotors made of a corrosion resistant metal? I don't expect that such increased costs would overcome the gap you state, but I thought it worth mentioning.

[@reiniernn9071]

I 'm driving EV since 2013. And I confirm that no extra ordinary maintenance took place. Also no repairings outside the maintenance schedules.. Tyres are a little more expensive because special production for EV's...due to the weight of those cars. Lifetime tyres is at least the same as I had previous on a ICE car which car was more or less the same size. The special compound in those EV tyres compensate for the weight. ) But do never forget....your driving style can shorten or lengthen the tyres lifespan....

[@dalriada842]

@@reiniernn9071 If your experience is typical of other EV owners, it sounds as if uprated components have been factored into the original cost of purchase. There's no other way the physics of the current heavier batteries can be overcome. This is probably partly why they are generally more expensive. Which makes EV take-up a harder sell. It also means that should something need replaced, it will be more expensive too. As someone who keeps a car for a long time, this would concern me. The companies might make EVs cheaper to buy at the expense of component longevity.

[@reiniernn9071]

@@dalriada842 I know that my first EV, nissan leaf, had much heavier batteries than now is normal....But only 24 KWH bruto (20KWH netto) capacity. The total weight of the car is 1515 kg....Before I was driving a fiat punto EV diesel...weight 1127 kg. I compared the tyre usage between those 2 cars, they are nearly the same size. The battery warranty guarantees me that there is no need to think of expensive battery changes for that EV....But for the Punto I had to replace (all normal maintenance) the timingbelt and braking blocks during the same mileage. Reason why an ICE car has that higher maintenance costs.

[@ericseidel4940]

Your totally right. We bought 2 i-Miev 10 years ago, first generation of electric cars. Special offer, 15k€ each. Compared to a 10k€ gasoline equivalent, we saved more than 15k€ per car in 10years. Even if the autonomy is ridiculous compared to today standards, its enough to go to work, to sport, and bring children everywhere around. In 10years, we NEVER went to a garage, only a few wipers and tires. There's even NO maintenance schedules on these early cars. The only failure was.... the accessory lead battery, believe it or not, yes they still put a lead acid battery on electric cars... Of course I went for a DIY liFePo4 battery instead, that will go into the next car for sure.

[@eusuntaici]

I doubt the maintenance cost for the electric motor will be $0 over 10 years. Even though it might be brushless, it still has bearings and capacitors, I imagine. How about all the other moving parts (steering, suspension, air conditioning)? Not realistic to expect $0 for regular maintenance.

[@56585656587]

Then how is Tesla doing it? Look at how many people are reporting zero maintenance on Tesla after years of driving.

[@eusuntaici]

@@56585656587 I don't know, man. You can't have movement (especially acceleration-deceleration cycles) without friction. Where there is friction, there is wear, despite all the lubrication. Wear means maintenance, it's simple. I don't know how Teslas bend the laws of Physics, but maybe us not knowing about the issues doesn't mean they don't exist.

[@S.wilson911]

Sadly here in the Uk we don’t get the big rebate from the Government. I think it’s only £1500. We’re going for a test drive in one for the day soon.

[@AndysComputer]

How does the purchase price of the electric version compare with the Cooper S in the UK?

[@S.wilson911]

@@AndysComputer the cooper S sport starts at £26,155 and the Cooper SE starts at £27,000 including the Gov discount.

[@AndysComputer]

@@S.wilson911 Hmm, removing the 20% VAT on the UK price then converting to dollars seems the base price SE is about the same either side of the pond.

[@scatterbrain9490]

Thanks for sharing

[@AndysComputer]

Thanks for watching!

[@klnine]

who picks up battery disposal costs ?

[@schmoab]

My Mini SE started production *today* 😆

[@peterhestevold4360]

How did you find out?

[@MrTruckerf]

Is it done yet?

[@foofyguy]

I recently tried to build a signature series Mini SE for order, but the only offerings are the Plus and Iconic. It appears that BMW may have already made as many Signature series they will make for 2023 model year. I really don't want any of the options, so paying an additional $4000 for the signature plus is not attractive. Due to supply chain shortages, many manufacturers are building a higher percentage of upscale models which bring a larger profit margin for them. Fewer base models are being manufactured. There are no models I want in inventory within 200 miles. Perhaps the redesigned 2024 will still have the price point of the 2023 and I will be able to order what I want early in the build cycle.

[@DracarysSnow]

May I ask where you are? I was able to build a signature online and went to the dealership to make sure . He did warn me though that it was perhaps cutting it short. Meanwhile, another dealership about 1 hr away told me that I could only get a premier or premier + for 2023. Fingers crossed, but who knows.

[@andreidell8877]

There is only the driving enjoyment factor that is missing in your analysis. Go on a trip on the spur of the moment that would not be possible with the Mini SE. Furthermore, on a trip, it would cost a lot more to charge outside your home. And of course, there is the time that you lose at charging points.

[@MarcusGormsen]

Cannot disagree with those points. I love my SE, but definitely will not be taking it further from home than I can get in one charging stop on the way there and back, with time to fully charge at the destination (~200 miles).

[@AndysComputer]

Spur of the moment isn't usually a problem as the car is usually full after charging overnight. It does cost more to charge on public charges but it's still cheaper than gas. Having to charge for 30 mins every 1hr 20mins of driving (90 miles or thereabouts) would be annoying on a long run. But for that kind of use you need a longer range EV just so you can charge for 20 mins every 2.5 hours when you take a break of eat lunch or whatever.

[@AndysComputer]

I'd agree, one charge on the way to the destination is ideally the mast I would want to do unless it was a once a year type trip.

[@ingridcalusinski98]

great comparison.however I think everyone should have the choice of what they want to drive.cost is only one part.

[@Sully365]

where are y'all buying these things

[@privatenexus5764]

I read somewhere that volvo did a very thorough comparison, and they found that ENVIRONMENTALLY EVs break even when you reach 80K miles. Its not the same as you personally monetarily, but if you look at their methods, you may find you missed something. IDK

[@raybowley490]

This is ok for city but rural changes everything ,as the miles/klms are longer and the charge sometimes means you are stuck trying to charge at high fees and sometimes long hours . If in city would def get electric.