Electric Vehicle to Grid Approved for Australia V2G V2H V2L Explained

[@LudicrousFeed]

With thanks to our sponsors: Carloop - Aus EV Data | carloop.com.au Hankook Tyres | www.hankooktire.com

[@EcoHouseThailand]

I have been using my BYD Seal to power my home here in Thailand for over a year now - videos on my channel. As my home is off-grid I have the V2L connected to the Grid input of my solar inverters. If you also had a grid connection you could use a transfer switch. I use the car for a few hours at night if my house batteries aren’t full charged.

[@LudicrousFeed]

So great to hear that bidirectionality with the Seal is already possible: thanks for your vids!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Can you confirm that your max output is 3.3kW?

[@MatthewSummerton]

I tried that with my MG ZS EV, but the car detected a ground and would not allow the connection. It’s happy to offer V2L but no luck on V2H.

[@shongomoo]

@@EcoHouseThailand I really enjoy your channel. I'd love to see a video about battery degradation %age in your setup, if any.

[@EcoHouseThailand]

@@LudicrousFeed I've not seen anything official from BYD to confirm that. Here in Thailand the BYD V2L adapter says it's restricted to 2.6kW. I bought one from China that claimed to be good for 3.5kW but apart from the original advertising there was nothing to confirm that. If you exceed max Wattage V2L will disconnect and you have to remove to adapter and start again.

[@gregovens5040]

This announcement is the most sensible decision the Fed Govt has made in the renewables space hands down. It’s a game changer. As auto batteries become more efficient again in the next 2-3 years there will be another efficiency step change. For the whole community this is a far more cost effective solution than all the renewable projects under development. Will still need some them I’ll grant you for industry load, but with our plentiful sunshine, and domestic solar uptake we can have a win win for the environment and the consumer.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Well said

[@samroyans9258]

@@LudicrousFeed Guess what won't change though? Electricity prices....

[@shezcmayo]

I am super keen for this and will be buying my first EV next year. V2G will definitely be a feature I'm looking for.

[@LudicrousFeed]

It’ll make EVs far more compelling

[@CharlesGregory]

Interestingly, we had someone at one of our AEVA meetings who was able to power selected circuits in his house via V2L on his MG4. It worked using the same principle as an inlet for a diesel generator. He had the circuits connected to another switchboard and that switchboard was able to be supplied by either the main house supply, or the supply from a "reverse" 15A socket (the pins sticking out of the wall) on his house. It was all done safely by an electrician so there was no feed back into the grid possible. Limitations: - He could only power as much as what the car could output (which I think is 3.6 kW ?) - so lights, a basic power circuit with low power appliances, but not AC units - He had to manually switch it over, so no seamless backup during a power outage - Since the V2L uses an adaptor on the charge port, the flow of energy is one way, e.g. if the sun comes out, it can't use solar to take over the house loads and top up the car battery.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I’m hoping a commercial BD charger is smart enough to do it all!

[@lifeinaustralia6415]

Terrific video very clearly explained. Sadly I bought my EV early this year I missed out on the rebate had to pay a luxury car tax and now find out I miss out on this to. 😭 I brought my EV because my almost 30yr old ICE needed replacing and I didn't want to put another ICE on the road so to be environmental I will not be replacing this car anytime soon.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! 🙏 I will be asking the question to the OEMs to see if the existing fleet can be used as V2X …

[@leel9636]

Long-ish time follower of this site, now making my first comment to answer one of Tom's questions: will I buy another Tesla if Elon doesn't come to the party with using my car battery to power my home when the sun is not shining or the grid fails... again? It's an emphatic, "No!" from me. Thank you, Tom. I love your site!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for your first comment! 😇

[@tonyspiegel6771]

Excellent Video Tom. I have been exporting with Amber and my Tesla powerwall coupled to my Enphase solar system for over a year now. I dont pay for power I am in credit and have been doing my little bit to stabalise the grid. V2X is very exciting as I also have a Tesla EV which at the moment does not support V2X. I too will be considering as a major feature of my next EV its capability to use V2X. It really just makes sense and I wish all Aussies would start embracing the new technology available to them to make there lives better and save a little money. Everything I have purchased and used In this new era of energy use has surpassed my expectations. I would encourage everyone to move toward the new technology and not be scared off by the nagative commentators out there that have never used or have no real experience with new ways to use energy.

[@lynnwilliams3408]

Thanks Tom. Great news and good summary. It will be interesting to see the cost of the required equipment.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I’d be keen to know also

[@GaryV-p3h]

Great news, well done Australia, we also need V2V to virtually eliminate range anxiety in the event of misjudging getting to a charger or being diverted by road works & running out of juice.

[@LudicrousFeed]

That’d be handy

[@gtron4]

I have 5.3 kwp solar system and as soon as the V2H systems are released I will 100% make the switch to EV and say goodbye to fossil fuels. This is the one feature I've been waiting for so 🤞 the fossil fuel industry don't stall this with lobbying. Dreaming of the Xiaomi Su7 but likely a BYD will do.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I would Luuurve to see SU7 😋

[@HarmLessSolutionsNZ]

We have 2 EVs, a 2016 Leaf and a Polestar2. We updated the Leaf last year with the intention of using it for our solar as storage and didn't include a battery in our set-up with that in mind. V2G has been something I've had in mind since first getting a Leaf in 2014 and great to see it finally starting to see the light of day. Frustrating that our Polestar2 isn't bidirectional charging capable though I have heard rumblings through the Polestar forum of PS2 owners in Holland investigating a DIY upgrade in this regard. Something to keep an eye on as the only reason I'd update our Polestar would be to gain V2G function, but probably a DIY upgrade isn't something I'd be game to do until our PS completes its warranty period. Another potential use for V2G EVs may be as a 'jerry can' to bring electricity home from a public charger in the case of a power outage, assuming the grid was still up to supplying the public chargers.

[@IsaacLoven]

Excellent explanation. Another reason why Peter Dutton's plan to build multiple Nuclear power plant is now redundant.

[@budawang77]

Dutton is just an opportunist lacking much understanding of policy.

[@unclepete100]

@@IsaacLoven quite the opposite, nuclear can provide cheap baseload power to charge all those eV home batteries overnight. Cheers

[@peterrussell6292]

@@unclepete100Cheap? You are dreaming, nuclear is expensive to build, operate & even expensive to keep safe when decommissioned.

[@ConnorConnor]

@@peterrussell6292 clearly you aren’t in the nuclear or even energy sector. Nuclear is the cheapest and greenest energy there is. Coming from an electrician. There’s no emissions, only water vapour comes out of the stacks. Australia already gets paid to put nuclear waste back in the ground from other countries.

[@kerryf9399]

@@ConnorConnor correction: radioactive nuclear waste and not consented by the Australian people. Electricians do their job whether its solar or any other kind of powered. When did you last visit a reactor to measure the emissions? If nuclear fails even the waste water is radioactive. I trust Russia and China to build safer nuclear because they are at the centre of R&D of closed circle Nuclear power, western nuclear tech is old, expensive and dangerous. We would no doubt be forced to use expensive and lousy American reactors here, just like the non existent nuclear submarines. With nuclear just like coal the taxpayers subsidise it to build, run and to decommission, its not cheap for anyone but the corporations who own them. Solar is so easy in this country, and risk free, nuclear is not even necessary let alone for the risks.

[@hobaho]

Great news & good solution to Australia's power needs. Hopefully will reduce our reliance on coal and weaken any potential argument for nuclear power.

[@LudicrousFeed]

And strengthen the argument for those on the fence about EVs

[@SS-yw7vo]

What's wrong with nuclear?

[@hobaho]

@ Extremely expensive, waste products, would you like one in your suburb? All can be be solved with solar. We must be the best country in the world for it. Just have to put your mind to it.

[@vasil7410]

​@@hobahoSince when does ANY power station get built in the 'burbs?

[@hobaho]

@@vasil7410 Well; Lucas Heights is a suburb in southern Sydney, in the state of New South Wales, Australia. It is near to the Royal National Park.

[@paulwalker2133]

This is seriously game changing and could solve the country’s energy shortfalls when renewables are not generating. I think I would definitely no longer consider buying a separate, pretty expensive, stand alone battery, and instead make sure my next EV was compatible so I could make full use of solar + EV to get me off the grid as much as possible.

[@leefisher816]

So rather than Cars catching fire, it’s the home!

[@shaynegadsden]

Sorry but that is a stupid idea, for starters those expensive stand alone batteries aren't that expensive compared to the extra cycles on your vehicles battery shortening it's lifespan also the batteries used for fixed installs are normally LiFePo4 instead of the NMC used in EV's, LiFePo4 batteries are cheaper, last longer and are far more stable basically better in every way except energy density which doesn't matter in a fixed install.

[@CamFromOz]

Game changer. Plans to buy a home battery on hold. Plans to push my employer to allow novated leasing increased significantly. Fingers crossed this comes to Tesla, otherwise my preferred car won’t be a model 3 anymore

[@JohnSmith-pg7eo]

Definitely looking forward to V2H. Not so much for V2G as I wouldn’t want to wear the battery out prematurely.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Fair concern but I’ve shown over 7 years, my PW2 has only lost 6% of capacity … Tesla Powerwall 2 Battery Degradation Health and Warranty Update kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2raiotopdZ0apY

[@GaryV-p3h]

Personally I'm not interested in supplying the grid, unless the want to pay me the sane as they're charging me for using their electricity. I'm far more interested in becoming as self sufficient as currently possible & freeing myself from the stranglehold the utility companies have had on us all for far too long.

[@shaynegadsden]

​@@LudicrousFeedthat isn't how battery cycle life works

[@LudicrousFeed]

@@shaynegadsden True I shouldn’t conflate the two. I may need to sit down and calculate how many more cycles theoretically using the car to power the home for a few hours each day could add …

[@shaynegadsden]

@@LudicrousFeed it's just the fact this tech sounds good and in an extremely rare situation sure but compare the cost of your powerwall to an EV battery and even if it slightly reduces the lifespan the cost is too great and anyone considering V2G should be slapped that is destroying your car to help a power company that couldn't care less about you

[@Luckiestmanalive-bb1mi]

This is great news, for sure. If you have two V2G capable EVs in the garage plugged in to bidirectional chargers then you are made! As you say, you could pick a retailer with TOU pricing that provides average price spreads of 30-40c each day (ho hum). Or you could sign up with a retailer that passes wholesale prices through to you for much higher (potential) returns - some Nissan Leaf owners have made hundreds of dollars in a few hours on occasion.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yup this is going to be a great disruptor

[@et1965]

WooHooo! I have a BYD Seal and an Atto 3. That's over 140KW/H of storage :)

[@weirenwu7680]

sorry to tell you. they only has VTL. Can not power your house. I think the only car on market have VTG is nissan leaf.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Our cars have the hardware capable of BD. It just requires the proper handshake and correct BD charger Ambibox will be the first CCS2 bidirectional charger to be arriving in Australia soon apparently (they were the first to prove that bidirectional charging is possible using a Tesla)

[@pascaladl]

@@LudicrousFeed have you got any read on the approx pricing of those and what sort of wiring requirements come with it? I currently run a 32amp circuit to Fronius Wattpilot Go.

[@peterjones6640]

Well done Australia, I wish the UK government would get a move on with this.

[@paulscountrygarage9180]

I have been waiting fr V2X capabilities. Now to find a car. Fortunately I’m not in a hurry.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thankfully many options in the market now!

[@paulscountrygarage9180]

@ and more coming by the month.

[@TheYoyoma3]

Hi Tom would be great to see a video one day to show what kind of equipment and installation effort is needed to connect car to house.

[@LudicrousFeed]

No problem. Will aim to post one once a commercial product is available and my car is complaint 👍

[@jeffarmstrong1308]

As someone who lives in a small village with dodgy power supply I am delighted with the V2H concept. My car already has V2L capability so I won't be surprised if it can do V2H. The manufacturer's website is a little unclear on this although it definitely has at least one V2H model

[@LudicrousFeed]

It would be so good for areas such as yours with variable grid supply

[@shaynegadsden]

It isn't good, if you have problems with power consistantly install a fixed battery in your home, the additional wear and tear on the rediculously expensive battery in your EV isn't worth it but most fixed batteries are LiFePo4 which is cheaper, lasts longer and safer

[@vrealzhou]

Those batteries are not good for EVs are still functional, just can’t provide enough range for evs, but as energy storage are still good enough. Most of the retired batteries are used in solar or wind farms right now in China till totally unusable then sent to recycle. There could be a big saving for EV owners to replace the batteries if we can use them as home battery or in solar farms locally.

[@shaynegadsden]

@@vrealzhou hell no do you whats more dangerous than a NMC battery, a used NMC battery out of a vehicle

[@vrealzhou]

@@shaynegadsden Not a fan of NMC either. What I'm talking here are LFP or Sodium batteries. TBH, all Tesla and LG home batteries are NMC in Australia. LFP is a Chinese only tech so far and BYD is the leader. The information I've got from Chinese social media the NMC were banned in electric buses and energy storage centers in China right now.

[@lm3718]

I am really hoping that Minister Bowen's Department has some great infographics and communications to market this to the Australian people. It is an absolute win for the grid and needs to be understood widely. Tom, your communication skills are excellent - so maybe the Department should consult with you to get some ideas?? This will leave the Dutton/Nuclear trolls gasping for breath.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! I find the best way to learn a concept is by trying to explain it to someone else and then listening to feedback from others. It’s worked me so far in life!

[@michaelchong4648]

Fabulous video!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@michaelchong4648]

@ could we encourage the Federal Government to set up an Australian Standard for all manufacturers to follow? I’ve sent this suggestion to Chris Bowen,but have already got a reply saying he gets lots of emails so don’t expect a reply.

[@Adam-Adamson]

This is what I’ve been waiting for 🎉

[@LudicrousFeed]

Me too!

[@petedawborn]

This is good news, and well explained but how much will a Bi- directional chargers cost to start with? I’ve hung onto the Nissan leaf believing that one day it would make more sense to keep it, even with only a 40kwh battery, and then it’s also a very handy run around. We’ve also chosen Kia’s for their V2L capability and now a Genesis GV60 which also has the V2L. Just need to get the switchboard wired up to receive that power when needed, at least until the BD chargers become cost-affordable

[@LudicrousFeed]

I suspect they’ll be relatively expensive when they’re initially rolled out …

[@nickpapadatos7587]

Love your videos :-) It's a no brainer to utilise your cars battery - I have a Volvo EX30 but was told is not yet compatible. Volvo Cars Canberra did say their new cars (certain models) will have that capability.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! We’ll see in time which makes and models become compliant …

[@alexsimmons1803]

The standards are a good step. Cost of bidirectional charge stations will make the financial viability of V2H/G somewhat problematic, unless/until they substantially fall in price. At present we have the Sigenergy unit, which for the lowest power model will set you back something like $10k or more once installed (requires the bidirectional unit + install + compatible hybrid inverter). That's an awful of of coin for what will be an intermittently used home energy storage system.

[@LudicrousFeed]

They’ll probably be an early adopter premium like all new tech

[@peterkelly1406]

Excellent .... Thank you

[@LudicrousFeed]

Most welcome

[@Stan-at-KangarooIslandTV]

Think about it indeed! Now we need to do our job and explain this to the skeptics and haters we all know. Ps Your hair has never looked so sleek Tom!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thank you my friend 😎

[@therealjeffg]

Thanks Tom…great news. I am getting an EV next year and I will only buy one that is V2H/G capable. Please provide updates as this unfolds in terms of vehicles that become compliant and the bi-directional charging options/solutions.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yup will do!

[@stephenrandall5859]

It will also come down to how much current the vehicle can supply back to the house/grid to what you can run on it

[@MichaelAConnolly]

My understanding was that there was an issue with who has the liability when/if something goes wrong through the system.

[@michaeloconnor7133]

Great explanation, thanks. A little more info on how to connect your EV to the home inverter would be great.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! Will look to provide updates as developments unfold … this is still a very fresh story

[@serpserpserp]

It really makes the economics of an EV more compelling. Just wondering if warranties will be changed since we will be charging/discharging batteries multiple times a day. Also be interested to know that if by just installing a bi-directional charger, if the grid power goes out (ie. black out) will my car kick in and power my house? Or do i need to install more components to my home set up to do this?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great questions which we will try to get answers for as the V2X rollout occurs …

[@imakevideos5377]

I don't think you would need to charge/discharge multiple times a day though, the average home doesn't use enough power to warrant a full cycle of the car battery. Also most cars aren't at home during the day they are out at work.

[@jondoe5536]

I bought a mg4 4 weeks ago which has v2l, I was already thinking of having a generator switch being installed. In the event of power going down you plug your car in to your home and run it. Batteries have a finite charge cycles, now if you use your car and charge it then discharge it again to run your house on a daily event it will half usage of the battery, but in saying that if you change cars every 3-5 years it's not a problem. For me the set back was the $1800 quote for the generator switch and how often would I use it. Their is a quite a few people with small generators in their garage/sheds that require servicing and taking up space.

[@LudicrousFeed]

It would be a fantastic backup option for sure but yes the point about increased cycling is noted as others have mentioned. I’d love to be able to cover the peak periods heating the home during the few cold weeks we get in Sydney

[@jondoe5536]

@@LudicrousFeed I think it just depends on your car buying habits, as a ex cars sales person, I have only bought 2 new cars in my life, one being the mg4 and the other I bought in 2011, still working and looking good. The other thing it now pays not to scrap your old car, after driving use is done, the car now becomes your new house battery. It bets having a 45kwh liquid flow battery in the back yard.

[@JeremyHarrison-d9m]

Were you one of those couple of dozen that scored the base MG4 at under $30k drive away under the sale they had? 51KwH battery pack for that price is pretty good, plus you get a bonus vehicle to go with it :)

[@jondoe5536]

@@JeremyHarrison-d9m No I paid $30990, but now they are $32990 just see the add

[@jondoe5536]

@@JeremyHarrison-d9m No had to pay $31600 for a silver car, now it sells for $33,600

[@ferraltech]

I also have a single PW2 and it's just not viable to get a second one as there has been very little reduction of home battery pricing. I've been waiting for this; it's the future and it should be called BOW (Battery On Wheels) :P

[@LudicrousFeed]

I like that name 👍

[@paulrgab]

As Nissan Leafs have been used for V2G trails using the Wallbox Quasar 1, I hope they will all be approved officially now. Just need to get my hands on a Chademo Bi-Directional charger!

[@Scotty_AU]

Very interesting topic, it would be interesting to see how this could work for off-grid living

[@LudicrousFeed]

Opens up a whole new chapter in the EV story

[@Scotty_AU]

@LudicrousFeed for people who live off the land this could be huge, cut reliance on the grid

[@sinoevc]

Thank you for sharing, it's really cool

[@LudicrousFeed]

Pleasure 🙏

[@proximaone1350]

I was considering selling my Nissan leaf, maybe not now! Thanks for the video!😊

[@LudicrousFeed]

It’s more valuable now!

[@chrisnewman7281]

Hopefully the states and territories get this together and agree on differential tariff so that this incentive to a vehicle to gidn at peak demand times

[@LudicrousFeed]

If done right it could work very well for the nation

[@normal_human]

This is excellent & so is your video. However, the Australian Government needs to invest money into the grid and power generation. Currently there's thousands of suburbs that need to shutdown grid tie solar because the infrastructure isn't good enough. This problem would apply to apply to anything feeding back into the grid.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks! 🙏 For sure that we need some smart people to help utilise the extra solar energy that is being generated by storing it via batteries whether stationary or mobile

[@moestrei]

Fun fact: It was recently discovered in Germany that a number of CCS vehicles incl. Tesla Model 3 are Bidi already. The trick is for the 'discharge' inverter to ask for a negative current and the cars BMS will happily provide that current. SOC gets displayed correctly too. As an electronics engineer it is clear to me that the transfer has to be done in battery level DC. No point to carry all this AC/DC-DC/AC conversion equipment in the car or be limited by it.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Agreed. Less losses I presume also with straight DC

[@raypalmer7733]

While I agree that the peak periods could be quite profitable to export car battery energy to the grid, there is one issue that everyone might be ignoring. Your car is not at home when it is at work! Here in WA synergy can at their discretion stop your grid supply if they see to much being put into it.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Better negotiate an earlier knock off time during winter months 😆

[@terryseton]

Great news, that coupled with my Powerwall 3.0 and Gateway 2.0, BYD Seal, I should have a full house system after xmas

[@LudicrousFeed]

You’ll be set! 🎄

[@SmdnSnnd]

You haven't advised of what is required to be installed in your home to make this work and cost... I suspect it is alot

[@LudicrousFeed]

I haven’t advised because I don’t have all the info yet 😅

[@MarcusA24]

The Australian power grid is highly regulated and they are not just going to let people have at it without proper safe guards I suspect you’ll need an equivalent of a Tesla Gateway to control power flow to protect the grid, and its workers when it is down ($1,500). Also a bi-directional charger, about $2,000 installed. So my pure guess would be around $3.5K or there abouts. We’ll need to see the fine print though to be sure.

[@johnlambert1744]

@@MarcusA24 $3500 is still a LOT cheaper than buying a Powerwall (or equivalent) so I think a lot of ppl including myself would take up the offer.

[@iainbenwood9143]

The area to be concerned about is safety when sending power to the grid. There needs to be a way to cut off the power when the grid is down for maintenance which is currently being handled by the house PV inverter. Is connecting the car to the home inverter an option?

[@edgarchieng2130]

Interesting to know how the bi-directional charger works and if it’s completely seamless just like the Powerwall

[@LifeSized101]

Bi- directional charger, interesting. Pw3 installed last week. C.T. some year in South Australia

[@LudicrousFeed]

There’s probably some merit in installing one home battery because after all, your V2X enabled “battery on wheels” may decide to leave home every now and then 😅

[@cheynehoneyman]

Finally getting closer. I've been holding off until this goes ahead. Hopefully the cost of bidirectional chargers will fall rather quickly.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Probably an early adopter premium as with most new tech

[@paulrgab]

The hassle is going to be grid operators. Evoenergy for the ACT, if you’re on a single phase connection only allows up to 10kW of solar plus 5kW battery inverters. If V2H/G counts towards these limits, I’ll be out of luck, unless I do something drastic like replace PW2 with a PW3 and move my 11 kW of solar panels over to the PW3, which would give me 5kW to play with.

[@tonyspiegel6771]

It is also the same in QLD maximum of 10KW back to the grid. This is mainly to prevent problems with the infastructure not being able to handle much more than 10KW from and too the grid without upgrading every household. Most homes are connected with single phase usually max 63 amp which means 63A x 240V = 15120W or 15KW. If you start nudging above 10KW too grid and include your household use you will start to trip the circuit breakers. Not to mention the cable connecting you to the grid was connected years ago and who knows how much it can safely be used at before melting. Unfortunately the answer is to upgrade the infastructure as it is not fit for purpose in the future however like everything we can transition as it isn't an over night solution.

[@paulrgab]

@ You can export 10kW on single phase? In ACT, maximum export of 5kW for single phase and 15kW on three phase.

[@Toosha1974]

No problem just disconnect from grid.Save money all round.

[@nathanskinner3868]

Thank you for your update. Would you install an additional battery or wait to buy directional charges available? Especially if you don’t know if your car is suitable for the VTX?

[@LudicrousFeed]

I wouldn't install another home battery at this stage until I have full details of the V2X compliance procedure. If it comes down to it, I would trade my car for another one with V2H/G capability

[@nathanskinner3868]

@ thanks mate. I am not sure i could afford another $45k for a new car though. Initial costs have the Bi-Directional charges at 10k plus install.

[@Nicholsp01]

Thank you for the easy to understand video. Dear Santa, Please give me an EV that has more than 18cm ground clearance, under RRP of $30,000, can self drive a grandmother safely to visit her grand children, does not cost a mint in new tyres and insurance, has a $2000 inverter that facilitates V2G with a Smartshift account with Amber.

[@LudicrousFeed]

What are the odds, that’s on my Wishlist too! 😝

[@Neilhoh3]

All very well. But your and my Byd Seal has max export of 10A or 2.2kw. Enough power to run a couple of appliances.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I think 3.3kW V2L technically … will of course need confirmation for V2H

[@stephenboyd897]

The main issue is whether we reinvented a standard because Australia is different or just adopted a n existing one as far as vehicles are concerned. I own a Nissan Leaf so hopefully it is already compliant and the promise of sales means the cost of the bidirectional charger doesn’t increase.

[@triplex7144]

Hi mate next time you chat with byd can ask them a good idea would be to have your side mirrors remember the drivers seat setting. I'm getting sick of jumping in after the Mrs and getting her mirror settings.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Agreed, would be good to have profile settings

[@xiaowei1]

Really good news. Will the government be offering any grants for installing bi-directional chargers? Otherwise a lot of people will be paying quite a bit to convert over. Also, do you know if they will have to lay an extra set of cables to do this? What I'm actually most curious about, is do bi-directional chargers play nicely with a home battery?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great questions

[@xiaowei1]

@@LudicrousFeed perhaps an interview with Wallbox (they sell the Quasar 2) or another company who produce bidirectional chargers?

[@AndrewVillella]

Thanks Tom for a great video Can you please explain if EVs currently with V2L on the road today can be used for V2X without new vehicle hardware if the model is approved for V2X

[@LudicrousFeed]

I believe in theory this is possible … but let’s see if it is the case when more details emerge

[@teinspringz]

It is good news and direction to go with V2X, I hope the technology is fully matured, fully tested and all the standards settled on with no intentions to change in 15+ years as that will get annoying, having to need to purchase another charger or device. What I would like to know is how consumption will be monitored on your EV when the grid draws from it, who covers the cost to repair the EV battery if cells fail or advance degradation detected. I still think easily swappable batteries are the way to go and most EV manufacturers are dependent on battery degradation to secure future consumer purchases of their products. If NIO was offered here I would be more inclined to switch to their EV's than any other brand because I believe in their methodology.

[@AddyGoose]

It's the only reason I have been holding off on purchasing an EV for the past 12 months. I have a PW2 at home and have around 3 months of the year where it is just capable of powering the home outside daylight hours. With the EV backing up the home PW2 I will have no issues. We're also prone to long power outages following storms, this will make my petrol generator redundant !

[@LudicrousFeed]

Absolutely it will make a great backup option for the home 🙏

[@waynecartwright-js8tw]

Here in the UK i am looking foreward to V2G , we have an Ioniq 5 that can do V2L.

[@LudicrousFeed]

That would be great 👍

[@shortfinal999]

A significant announcement and really a no-brainer. My only concerns are that existing ev's are unlikely to be compliant and the cost (at this stage) of bi-directional chargers are prohibitive (i.e. $10k+). If new ev's have this ability and chargers come down to a reasonable price, then I'm definitely a likely purchaser.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Fair concern but my understanding is that most EVs already have the hardware. It just requires the proper handshake and BD inverter. The BD trials with CSIRO have been with the Nissan Leaf and that is not a new car!

[@mattwarner8273]

Why people are complaining of the cost (10k) yet a 13kW power wall costs $13k to install

[@serpserpserp]

@@mattwarner8273 plus it increases the value of your home.

[@ChrisJayBee]

Please please Elon give us V2X just add the inverter and tweak the software and I as an owner will be an happy chappie - I understand the current Tesla reasoning around this but this is another area that the Chinese brands will overrun Tesla if they don’t listen to their customers!

[@electricvehiclesug256]

@@ChrisJayBee Tesla just needs a software update to enable this. Using the same inverter for charging

[@tjmadass878]

@@electricvehiclesug256 I don't think so. The in-car charger takes 240VAC and provides 400-ish VDC (vague about the number - I'm one of the great unwashed non-Teslarati). Taking 400VDC and making 240VAC **and** syncing up with the mains phase is a whole different thing.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Ambibox is coming to Aus with their BD charger and they were the ones that proved it could work with a Tesla in Europe without any hardware changes to the car apparently

[@tjmadass878]

@@LudicrousFeed will likely still need a tweak to Tesla software. I suspect that talking to the vehicle with CCS2 protocol, you could maybe expose the HV DC connection to the outside world, but we don't know if the car s/w would get upset as you you pull juice out of the charging terminals rather than pumping it in. Definitely want the car to know what's going on.

[@Louwhay]

Seems bit up in the air which current v2l car would be able to v2h later? Either way this could also drive down fixed battery costs!

[@LudicrousFeed]

A lot of the mechanics of V2X still need to be sorted ...

[@stevejamieson1245]

I wonder what this means for the Tesla PowerWall 3 and its bi directional charging built into it?

[@LudicrousFeed]

I wonder indeed

[@InnoRat]

You can use an Ambibox to make most EVs ready for V2G

[@huntchris]

I’m aware of the Ambibox demonstrations of V2H (G?), but I’ve not seen any of the manufacturers confirming their support officially. Have you?

[@LudicrousFeed]

There is a post from the Ambibox CEO … we will discuss on Wed night

[@huntchris]

Looking forward to it. My particular interest though is BYD’s official position on this. It’d be great to have a statement from them.

[@roowatt]

A secondary benefit of this policy is it encourages EVs to be plugged in while at home. This means they could be used for helping to manage Minimum System Load events where more power is being fed I to thegrid than being used.

[@nick0047]

So now we wait for v2x and v2g. Which cars have them in 2025 in Oz and how much for a bidirectional charger Tom? Thanks in anticipation of better EVs to come. Look forward to more updates to come.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Some speculative pricing here: Home Battery vs EV with V2X: Pros, Cons & Future of Energy Storage kzbin.info/www/bejne/qF6zqad7h8etkJI

[@davidhirst7057]

For those of us with Tesla Powerwall & Tesla cars, do you think Tesla would make use of the gateway system (plus maybe a BD charger) to get V2X going for those of us who have already invested heavily in their technology?

[@josephlagrange5158]

LFP batteries should be the better option than NCM for V2X as they are way cheaper and can do more cycles.

[@shaynegadsden]

Yes using an EV to power a home in anything other than an extreme emergency is worst idea ever

[@josephlagrange5158]

@@shaynegadsden The LFP battery price from CATL/BYD is around $56 per kwh. If you can save $0.01 per kwh, then you can save $50 with 5k cycles, which is very close to the cost. The price will continue to drop in the future and it will be a more and more brilliant idea to use the EV to power a home

[@vrealzhou]

V2G has been discussed in Chinese social media for couple of years already. EV battery will store electricity that generates at night which was wasted normally and balances the solar generated electricity. Traditional power plants can’t turn on/off frequently.

[@Johnno1979]

Have just ordered a Shark. I have a 3 phase 10kw Fronius solar inverter which isn't a hybrid. Assuming the Shark gets V2H, i assume I'd need a new Hybrid inverter? Certainly better than a new inverter and $10k battery.

[@ironsword7]

It sounds ok in theory but what effect does it have on the longevity and capacity of the car battery? If a battery loses 12% capacity every 322000km (2022 article from insideevs, not sure of the battery chemistry) that's the equivalent of 41860kWh or ~600 full cycles (assuming 70kWh/charge) On the extreme end, it would lose 29% capacity after ~4years if used exclusively for V2G of daily 70kWh discharge. (no driving). I think it'd be much better suited to use V2x for personal use given the average house consumes about 9000kWh per year. Less stress on the battery,

[@LudicrousFeed]

First and foremost I’d be using V2H

[@peboblank437]

Thanks for the video. Do u have any info on bi-directional chargers approved for use in Aus - incl. price? Also, do u know which manufacturers have got approval for their EVs to be used for V2H/ V2G in Aus/ which states?

[@LudicrousFeed]

I don’t too much further info at this stage since this announcement occurred. I did do a video comparing a home battery vs V2X … Home Battery vs EV with V2X: Pros, Cons & Future of Energy Storage kzbin.info/www/bejne/qF6zqad7h8etkJI

[@simonpaine2347]

Great news. I own a BYD along with solar panels and a Sol-Ark 15k inverter. I've tried connecting it to the Generator input, but for some reason it won't work! The Sol-Ark sees the 220v but it doesn't allow it to pass through. I regularly use the car to heat my hot water tank, so I know that it's working fine. Does anyone have any experience of working with this please?

[@vrealzhou]

Most of the new Chinese EVs have V2L features already. The feature was originally designed for camping.

[@motorozer]

This is great!

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

20million vehicles in Australia. 1million new vehicles annually. Most vehicles are parked 23hrs every day and all night long. Selfplug-in V2G EVs and a $60 wall outlet at bumper height for bumper plug-in. Most vehicles drive building to building. Trading electricity with the grid for money, happy days. Battery recycling infrastructure is still waiting for batteries. Battery management is extending battery life by years. It's surprisingly good 👍. Happy days. Extremely expensive grid upgrades can now be postponed. This is a massive savings to the government and grid owners.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Sounds good on paper! Let’s hope it’s a rosy reality 🙏

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@LudicrousFeed mark my words. Hahaha 👍

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@LudicrousFeed we need to have a direction to work towards. When you look at the ALP grid building fiasco and understand that grids cost $1million per km to $10million per km 😳 An overbuilt grid is insane when rooftop PV on existing rooftops all connected to the national grid, and v2g EVs massive electric power bank are even in a significant minority the economics will be overwhelming. When you look at the LNP nuclear promoters wet dream and its need for more grid capacity to replace all fossil fuels used, which is 50 times today's baseload electricity to save the world's climate. You know they don't have a clue what makes up a massive national electrical grid. It is a $TRILLIONS infrastructure and it is fragile and lightweight because it is f.......king expensive. 1million km x 1million to 10million $km. Is $TRILLIONS to expand its capacity. I am just an old Construction Civil Engineer and Construction Manager with years of transmission construction and generation construction. And general construction. And no upper management to appease. I have grandchildren.

[@racymasey]

Bought a "Mitubishi Elipse PHEV" 1 year ago because it's 1 of a few vehicles approved for VTH/VTG in SA. where I live, with the intention of being able to supplement my house battery in winter. Infuriatingly I have not been able to use the vehicles capability because the relevant authorities ( not sure who they are) have not approved thebi-directional equipment that I need to buy, to connect the vehicle to my house. So it's great that standards are being set but that's just verbal "fluff "until you can get the necessary equipment to do it . Its not cheap either, last time I checked it cost around $10,000 for the bi-directional unit attached to the house. That's equivalent to around 10 yrs of electricity bills for me!

[@LudicrousFeed]

We’ll monitor progress as details emerge into 2025

[@pauldingwall9600]

Sounds like more inconvenience than anything. All you’re doing is moving power around in circles and still using the grid. It makes sense if there is a power outage though.

[@fademan77]

So battery life for cars is really driven based on the fact that they are rarely cycled every day, maybe once a week. Once they are used like mobile phones and charged every day, they will deteriorate far more quickly. Not sure I'm a fan

[@LudicrousFeed]

Fair point but again it depends on how much you use … I’ll have to sit down to calculate how many more cycles using the car battery for the home could theoretically add 🤔

[@shongomoo]

If you discharged the full pack every day it would take 8 years for a LiFePO4 pack to get to 80% (3000-4000) cycles. With my high use of electricity I'd only manage to use 20-30 kW per day after solar. Also the potential to sell the energy on VPP at peak periods makes this exciting! And home battery manufacturers will need to drop their prices accordingly.

[@fademan77]

@@LudicrousFeed thanks for the clarification, maybe it'll be ok after all!!

[@shaynegadsden]

​@@fademan77no it won't that is a bad example and doesn't explain how the cycle life on batteries works

[@LudicrousFeed]

@shaynegadsden You’re correct I shouldn’t conflate the two and hence I’ve edited my comment 🙏

[@camerond169]

Let's hope Tesla do indeed come to the party!

[@LudicrousFeed]

Agreed

[@kiwizz]

Woo! Hope the MY25' Ioniq will support it.

[@PiSundays-mb1my]

Will existing cars like the Seal be capable of V2H?

[@MatthewSummerton]

@@PiSundays-mb1my will the MGs be able to be retro fitted for V2H? This would be a massive waste of a huge resource if current EV’s aren’t able to be modified.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yes. There are already examples of “off label” BD usage currently …

[@mawhim]

V2G, what will I need on my wall to get power from the car to my fuse board. And what is the maximum that will be allowed. That wasn't explained.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hang in there, this is very fresh news which was only announced yesterday! We’ll certainly update with fresh videos once more details come to light

[@hadtobe4502]

I am wondering which EV's can do VTX, VTG etc. Is the VTL adaptable to VTX. I mean, Tom gave a demo of using VTL, but that was a power board using a hair dryer, hardly powering the house.

[@Humphrey181]

Great announcement. Who can recommend a good online calculator to work out the economics of all these options? We have a very low daily use ~9kWh and so far, the economics of solar / batteries don't make financial sense (last calculation was a 13 year payback). Now if V2G becomes a thing the numbers shift significantly, and I can potentially see some investments in my future. It'd just be good to run the different scenarios to compare

[@LudicrousFeed]

Will try to analyse with a real world payback scenario once more bidi chargers become available. Although I suspect a payback calculation becomes clouded with subjective intangible benefits of the battery being attached to a car! Not to mention the potentially endless comparisons between the different EV makes and models!

[@surfer123au]

What equipment installation will I need in my house to connect the car for VTx? Cost? Will this work with a normal wall charger? Thanks.

[@LudicrousFeed]

You’ll need a BD inverter/charger - Manfred/Ambibox will be the first CCS2 bidirectional commercial charger to be arriving in Australia soon apparently (they were the first to prove that bidirectional charging is possible using a Tesla) A normal wall connector will not have the ability to utilise V2X

[@kirbs1774]

@@LudicrousFeed doesn’t the sigenergy charger already support bidirectional charging? I’m considering on for a new solar installation

[@Luckiestmanalive-bb1mi]

Needs a special (ie expensive) charger...

[@mattwarner8273]

@@Luckiestmanalive-bb1mi but cheaper than a 13kW power wall installed

[@Luckiestmanalive-bb1mi]

@@mattwarner8273 - good point!

[@bausHuck]

I guess I will upgrade my wall connector when I get a Tesla that supports V2H.

[@John-p7i5g]

Well done. Just got to figure out what EVs are V2X compatible. As far as I know Tesla isn't.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Ambibox have shown it works with a Tesla in Europe

[@triplex7144]

Could i supply more than 3kw back to the home from my seal? Will byd increase the 3kw maximum?

[@LudicrousFeed]

I suspect it will be a higher output with a CCS2 bidirectional charger

[@GTRSniper1]

Why aren't companies making the roves of vehicles solar so it can charge while driving and parked?

[@lakunagr]

Great video & explanation, thanks Tom. Do you know if Tesla has any V2X capability planned in future models?

[@LudicrousFeed]

No official word from Tesla yet for current models in Aus

[@lenjohnson5343]

The cybertruck hag V2X capabilities.

[@marlons488]

Can you tell us how we can do this v2g thing? I have byd atto 3 and a Sonnen Hone battery for my solar, how can i use my atto 3 battery to power home?

[@LudicrousFeed]

No firm details as yet ... I'll update as they emerge hopefully later this year

[@marlons488]

@LudicrousFeed thank you for that and all of your best videos, it helps a lot especially when I was deciding if I should make the switch 👍

[@akashitooth4358]

8:28 Finally it looks like this is becoming a reality. It was proposed in the uk about 5 years ago but nothing happened. Can’t believe it took so long. 😎 As a 7 year ev owner this is a game changer. And yes it would change what car we get next if Elon doesn’t get behind it.

[@fatdoi003]

one more reason to buy LFP over NMC EV as LFP has more charge cycles

[@andrewdossett1792]

Check out the Solarquotes Fast AF video on the Sigenstor with 12 or 25kW bidirectional charging. Just software locked and waiting for approval before it can be used in grid mode. 👌🏻

[@LudicrousFeed]

Nice 👍