When and Why to separate Grounds and Neutrals.

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[@bnerusa]

A year and a half into an electrician classroom , no teacher has ever explained it this way, please keep doing it!! 👏🏻

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's go! Thanks for the feedback!

[@tedlahm5740]

Clear concise information. Scary.

[@esthermcgough3995]

Great explination great info

[@chemax83]

Best Coach Ever!!!

[@Old_Sailor85]

Best explanation I've heard Thanks.

[@ricardopimentel2286]

is this a correct statement? The neutral bar is connected to the metal frame? like we supposed to? 5:42

[@Pilotviran6990]

Awesome video, definitely subscribing!! So what would I do if I’m off grid with solar going to inverters (240v inverters with midpoint auto transformer to make two 120v legs) connected to a sub panel that then was wired to a main panel in the home?

[@jamiestarr1022]

Why do they call it "disconnect?" Isn't it really the first point where you "connect" the power source from the utility company? Thanks

[@markd5067]

So if there isn't a ground from the meter box, just the two hots and neutral, to a load center 75 feet away with a main breaker and two grounding rods are supplying the ground connection for it, are the neutral and grounds still separated?

[@mackdbush984]

Thanks. So many diy videos are misinformed about the importance of separation. They keep telling people to bond sub panels. Idiots who are putting people and equipment in harms way.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's go!!

[@ToddWilliams-v6i]

I spent a day studying this concept for a course. You explained it far better in 10 mins. Well done!

[@NickFrom1228]

This is hands down one of the best explanations I've seen on this. Usually when this is discussed they only of what you do and not why you are doing it. Good work.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's Go!!!

[@sparkee1965]

As an electrician for many years now, I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I just wanted to compliment you on a very easy to understand explanation.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Thank you!

[@drewjames9738]

Why is your channel not booming?? You should have more subscribers with the value you offer in each and every video.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Thank you for your kind words, I'm all about slow steady growth, it tends to stick around longer.

[@trsdos80]

This is by far the best explanation for GND vs N

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's go! Thank you.

[@Partysize2]

GREAT VIDEO!!! I love the way you used the diagram of current flow. That made it very clear what could happen. You were also using correct electrical units describing current flow for what it is and no words like "power flowing". Nice job all around. Thanks!! Wish you would do video on generator transfer switching.

[@brianlittle717]

This is a perfect explanation but it’s also important to recognize how dangerous it is to disconnect a ground wire or what happens if a conduit is broken because there would be a potential difference across the disconnected path. In other words never assume that a ground wire is dead because it can get you when you disconnect it.

[@Quan._]

Thank you Electrical Code Coach! I subbed to your channel and appreciate the knowledge and wisdom you share sir. May GOD bless you! You have inspired me to raise my skill level and go into being am electrician apprentice and praying more in time.

[@Alphasig336]

I personally think NEC should mandate separate ground bus bars for all installations. Neutral bud bar and ground bud bar, then bond them together in main panel only. This makes moving to solar or Generator easier and safer when it isn’t done unknowingly to home owner

[@extremeair1199]

Wow much respect coach!! First video I've seen of yours and I immediately subscribed, you're great!!

[@maddierosemusic]

I have asked licensed electricians plenty of times about the ground / neutral thing and not one could explain it. Now I can tell THEM! Great video.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Right on!

[@davelowets]

The ground wire should be installed as basically an "extra neutral" wire that is connected to the chassis of an appliance instead of the neutral connection on it. It's a safety wire that will safely carry the current back to the breaker box if there is somehow a leak of current from the hot wire, through a component inside the appliance, to it's chassis. That way, if your grounded body touches an exterior metal part of the appliance, YOU don't become the path for the stray current to return to the breaker box, it rides on the ground wire instead. Electricity ALWAYS follows the path of least resistance, and a properly installed ground wire has much less resistance to the breaker box than the path between your body, the earth, to the breaker box. Therefore, no shock from a leaky appliance if you touch it with a proper ground.

[@MrKen59]

Here’s one that baffles me - you have a range or dryer with 3 terminals and ground. The instructions tell you in a 2 wire install (older homes) to connect the neutral and ground on the device together. I was thinking this through, and became real to me when I tried to use a 40-amp gfci breaker and it kept tripping. Often the logic boards or a motor are 120v, so they are technically flowing neutral current through ground (and the shell of the device), and if at some point a fault occurs, or the grounding conductor comes loose, that shell now becomes live. I was taking some lineman courses and they were talking about the requirements for parallel grounding of disconnected lines due the possibility of picking up on emf current simply from being next to an energized wire or the wind blowing. This stuff is serious and we take so much for granted. Sorry for the rant, but there is a lot behind how we ground. God bless and thanks for all your work.

[@gear59ok]

i wish someone would cover rural underground triplex install where there is no 4th wire and many outbuildings in series. not every body lives in a modern subdivision.

[@EELLISON2012]

This guy is a very good instructor. I didn't have to restart the video. It was completely understood at every point.

[@dgmenace73]

Wow....the pictorial of this video makes it so easy to understand one of the most, if not the absolute, hardest concept of wiring & safety to grasp!

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's Go!!

[@daviddominguez8258]

Thanks. Learned important grounding rules.

[@lesnewsom6000]

I have a vivid memory from about 1974, when I jumped on a section of chain link outside a neighbors house. My friend pulled me off as I was “stuck” to it. The father had grounded the dryer to the fence (as I recall)

[@Granpapag]

Not sure about the NEC, but in the CEC(Canadian) the white wire in a 2 wire system is the ‘identified’ conductor. The green is the bonding conductor, not ground wire. The neutral by definition is the white wire of a 3 wire system. Neutral and identified are not interchangeable nor is ground and bonding interchangeable. Terminology is important when teaching. So if you are in Canada, the terminology used in this video is incorrect but the theory seems accurate.

[@vargr]

I've always separated the ground from neutral at the breaker panel. The ground goes to the grounding rod, the neutral goes to the neutral side of the breaker panel and then the return side of the powerline. Anything else courts disaster.

[@mrpute]

AWESOME video! Quick question. I'm looking to do two subpanels in series (garage subpanel connects to shed subpanel for multiple local branch circuits for shed lighting, 240v air compressor circuit, and outlets). Given what you've stated in this video and your out building series, I'm guessing BOTH subpanels need their own ground circuits (separate grounding rods and equipment ground in series from the originating structure) and BOTH subpanels need to have their bonding screws removed?

[@CoolDude-vc2fl]

I cant find answer to my question. I have a 4 pole breaker as my first disconnect, which obviously disconnects the neutral. So should i bond Earth Neutral before or after the 4 Pole breaker?

[@davidaengelhart]

Cudos to the creator of this video for a job well done from a seasoned electrician and code inspector. Mike Holt would be proud of you.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's go!!

[@ClintHyde-p3y]

What if you only have 3 wires, (2 hots, 1 neutral) coming from the Meter to the house which is about 85 feet apart. my question is do we still bond the ground and neutral at the house service panel? And does there need to be a ground rod at the house? Thanks

[@choimdachoim9491]

My problem with this is that I installed a 30 amp sub-panel for my RV and there was only one bar in the panel for attaching ground wires and neutral wires. That 's way the panel was manufactured. By what you're saying here I assume the neutral bar should be insulated from the panel body?

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

No, there are many panels where they are all bonded together, definitely work with a qualified license electrician in your local electrical inspector on this one

[@rob123456hawke]

i love your videos, learning so much! What about the GEC and ground rods. Is there only supposed to be one single GEC going from the first point of disconnect to the Ground rod and on to a second ground rod 8 ft apart? Would it hurt if there are additional GECs connected from subpanel A and subpanel B's grounding bar to the same 2 ground rods outside? (that is what I think I see in my home right now)

[@6_7ft]

This is the best tutorial i have ever seen. You have done an outstanding job explaining this..

[@edwhite7475]

I just liked your dog waiting to eat his hamburger. Thats really good. Oh and i learned about grounding and stuff

[@benkanobe7500]

I'm a DIY guy and have never fully understood this until now. Thank you so very much! I get it now. However, could you translate that over to portable whole house back up generators say 6500Watts and up? Sometimes bonded, sometimes, not. Why? Little back up generators say 2200Watts (if we are bad guys and back feed one side of our panel with them in an emergency using our manual transfer switch) are not bonded. Why? I figure if you could do such a good job of explaining it for the house, how about the back up generator types ?

[@codefupanda]

Great info. Do have a video explaining the connection to ground rods and grounding to gas and hot/cold water pipes? As I understand, I'm suppose to connect my first point of disconnect (meter base) to the rod rods. Do I connect the gas and hot/cold water pipes to the first point of disconnect, the load center, or either? Also, can you explain bonding between meter base to load center when using PVC vs EMT? Thanks.

[@dkat1108]

This is exactly what I need to talk about: If I have a 120v furnace and its "connected to a generator only during outages" generator manual says its bonded that should work and be fine....but if the furnace is still grounded to the house via the casing so that in a sense is connected to the house ground and neutral what happens when power is restored ? any help is much appreciated.

[@m.shehryar5341]

i honestly thought you were going to talk about coffee grounds

[@Quan._]

I Think you are intelligent and making good fruits with this channel .

[@ClayAdams-zj8yf]

Excellent explanation. I've been an electrician for 37 years. What surprises me is when I see a sub panel fed with 4 wires and they still didn't separate the grounds and neutrals. What did they think the purpose of the separate ground and neutral was?

[@stanleybest8833]

What about centertapped neutrals? The true ground is at a halfway point between your black and white wires and is created by centertapped transformers and a generator? I think every electrical system should be placarded as to it's voltage and standards. You will especially see centertapped neutrals in radio and military 115 AC systems. You will also see other trends like Navy overhead wires used on land just like on ships and anchor loops above outlets. Understand that your electrical code floats in a sea of other standards and only is valid when it is placarded.

[@okaro6595]

So? You said just current flows. You did not even begin to explain why it is a bad thing. I live in a country where for 50 years the standard grounding system as TN-C i.e. grounding with the neutral. It even was mandated earlier. On my apartment panel the groudn an neutral are connected and then only neural goes to the sockets. If I tuen m microwave on I get slightly under 1 volt to the grounding system. The problem is that the current may go through IT-cables and cause interference there.

[@todossantosmusic9070]

If I could Give more than one thumbs up you would get a crap load from me. Best explanation I have ever seen by far. Almost 40 years in the trades. You nailed it.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Thanks for the thumbs up it means a lot! Let's get to it!

[@Givennewlife1976]

Im working for a swimming pool contractor and have two situations like this. Service and subpanel bonded at both sides and my foreman won't let me change it. I tried to explain he doesn't understand it. Same thing with the construction manager they just dont understand what it means and say its not our problem.

[@sprockkets]

Apparently, I'm grandfathered in with my older sub panel in the garage. The ground for it is separate, and I have no choice but to connect the neutrals and grounds in it anyhow. It's an older fused based panel with room for only one bank of neutrals and grounds.

[@franksandlin8974]

I've noticed alot of electrical workers do know when and where to bond and separate grounds and neutrals. What I've seen time after time of not bonding a transformer. I've seen lots of licensed electricians think that because of first disconnect being bonded that they didn't have to bond the transformer . I maybe wrong I my explanation ,but I try to explain that it is now a separately derived system and you start all over again.

[@davidreed602]

I've watched lots of KZbin videos trying to understand this concept. I'm a visual person and I also want to know why something works. If I just memorize rules I don't remember it near as well. I can rethink the process you described and refresh my memory. You did a great job! Thank you!

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Thank You! I'm glad this helped.

[@YoeyYutch]

I learned so much from your videos today, this one in particular. To show my appreciation I'm even watching the ads til the end, well most of them anyways. Thank you very much.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

I appreciate that bro! Lets get to it!!

[@sammaimas155]

At 9:04 why wouldn't the meter box/ first point of disconnect be live as well. Is the metal box not earthed??

[@tommarbach6483]

Fine for romex but what about pipe? I have no ground wires in the entire house. All emt where the conduit is the ground and is attached to all the boxes, subpanels and refrigerator shells.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy E-C-C, ... Thank YOU - this is the BEST Explanation that I have heard to Date COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ,,,

[@billygraham5589]

I don’t know what the word “disconnect” means on this context but it seems I just need to separate grounds and neutrals everywhere except at the main panel, where I do connect grounds and neutrals.

[@LUISACONKLIN]

Love your detailed reply, but curious: what would ARC breaker do in this scenario ? would it trip or still function (where the ground and neutral were not separated?)

[@napoleonsmith7793]

Do you have seperate ground bar or do both touch the metal box? If so it is just a wacky theory with no proof. How about some wire instead of pictures.

[@nodwaa9227]

Interesting how other countries do it. In the UK the neutral and ground are connected at the point of entry to the house. TNS and TNCS. we never connect them in the consumer unit.

[@TAGUPNBLUE]

In a very short story you want to ground all metal parts everywhere so the breaker can't trip this is the wire method they want you to use no exceptions this works best for all faults

[@ElectricianMagician]

Thought this was common sense stuff. Electrical Technology 101.

[@alexzhitomirets5864]

What if you install transformer for controls in sub panel, and you need to ground the Neutral of that transformer to identify the Neutral ???

[@LiSTRONG631]

Passed my JW test last Friday! 1st attempt

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Congratulations!!!!!

[@andresrodriguez5584]

That's great bud... im hoping to take my nccer for electrical soon, Hopefully God willing pass it the first time.

[@Yaki-2505]

Never connect earth and neutral if the grid is a TT network! In this case you must have a local earth rud.

[@BobbaFett312]

excellent explanation. under normal operating conditions, neutral may have current flowing through it (when unbalanced load), while ground wire will never have current under normal conditions.

[@lostpony4885]

I guess i better check my 2 subpanels. Theyre all wacky with mistakes.

[@Ed-uu9eo]

Does 230.91 require the service disconnect to be a ocpd/fuse? Or.. what if for example somebody decided to install first a non-fusible switch disconnect after the meter can? Would it be then legal to have your bond in this unprotected non-fusible disconnect and separate the ground and neutral in the first panel with OCPDs? Because we're not specifying what kind of disconnect it is. Just first means of disconnect. Once I had to argue that the meter is not the first means of disconnect because they confused the bypass lever for a disconnecting means.

[@Hunter-yc4xi]

You didn't cover whether or not you should have a separate ground bar in the subpanels.

[@EverydayProjects]

Great explanation! Subbed!

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Let's go!

[@BrucesShop]

I Get it!!!! This makes me wonder about my Old welding connector. off panel 2 in the garage. (no neutral) Off my sub panel. 2 BTW my panel 2 has the neutral; disconnected from the case. I worked on 5000 amp DC plants in a Telephone exchange building. We had a PHG (Personal Hazard Ground) and would measure to make sure this PHG had no current on it. Thanks. I had AC electricians tell me "Oh it is just DC" LOL Just subbed.

[@WilliamStrawnJoe]

Good video. I understand now!

[@royesmith1828]

like your vedios

[@howtodoitdude1662]

Question: why not insulate the ground wire?

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Great question, they can be, but if they are bare it can help aid in clearing a fault.

[@GoingGoneGalt]

Thank ypu for explaining the reasoning behind this. It was always a bit of a mystery to me.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Anunakipower]

Also not to forget the breaker will not trip, no? Excellent video

[@billbarney4937]

i love dogs. they are the best pets. good info. i was a maintenance electrician my entire career. its a pretty decent job for a young man

[@mrorganic13]

@7:00 side note, the panel and rigid will only be energized if you bonded the neutral bar to the panel which like youve been saying they should be seperated at every other means of discconect but also unbonded.

[@johnclause765]

Very enlightening, Thank you

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

You're very welcome

[@lancerudy9934]

Please go over necessary grounding requirements. Code numbers on grounding.

[@daveb7999]

Excellent explanations, thank you for making this so clear! I just learned some very important information, nice job, subscribing.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

I'm glad this helps. Thank you for the feed back and the sub.

[@TheDeckerFamily]

Thanks for the info, cleared up some things for me.

[@karlvondrak6080]

So my 200 amp panel, only point of disconnect, only has about 14 neutral screws left but 20 spaces left for breakers. Obviously I am going to run out of neutral screws and I know you cannot double them up. What is the best way and most professional looking way to rectify that? Am I to assume I can just add another bus bar to panel and use for neutrals?

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Is it a newer panel?

[@karlvondrak6080]

@@ElectricalCodeCoach Yes, the Square D QO142M200PCVP.

[@BradleyLayton]

Great graphics. Thank you.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

You are very welcome

[@melvinkrumtum5861]

So do they need a grounding rod? That’s the confusion for me.

[@chisholmranch1]

Yes all systems should need a grounding rod. All ground rods should not be shorter than 8' deep in the ground.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Great question! Every system needs a grounding electrode system, for lightning and power surges.

[@KG6AFF]

Like to THANK the video for clarifying very important topic around everything electric in the house, ground surfaces need only ground connections, so there is NEVER a remote chance for white neutral wire returning any hot AC current to a ground somewhere much further to be connected with metal surfaces of devices because they are/were not separated like they should be at 1st point of disconnect in the local house circuit ... only like to say I wish I knew ... this as teenager hooking up stuff for self and other people free but no reports of injury thus far ... but perfection is everything ... so with new information in mind everything will be checked, corrected and perfected when building NEW ...

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Lets Go! Thank you for your comment, safety is always number one.

[@Thomas-wn7cl]

👍

[@brandonhutchison9864]

and if you don't, the RCDs trigger as well

[@richardcollejr.5121]

This is why you can get zapped on the neutral wire when not separated

[@Mcfreddo]

It's kinda obvious about why there has to be separation.

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

So what happens if we don't have the disconnect at the meter and our first point is the breaker box? Now the neutrals and grounds are all connected and the chandelier and refrigerator are both part of the path. Why is that different?

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

It's possible to have objectional current anywhere they are bonded but we have to keep in mind that the current only flows toward the source it does not flow upstream.

[@albertwashingtonjr2089]

OOOOOOHHHHHHHH! Great explanation! Thank you for sharing. Great job sir....

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

I'm glad this is helpful! Thanks for the feedback.

[@demilleenpatjeonline9631]

Maybe add the warning this is not the case using a TT earthing system.

[@midasxl469]

FRIKEN AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

[@wrightmf]

Good explanation. Another YT video (I think Electrician U) had a video about those plug-in receptacle testers may not catch every fault. One case he pointed to was a receptacle with a jumper from neutral to ground. OK if you got an old building with no ground wire, don't do this! I talked to another electrician about this jumpered receptacle, he has seen this a few times in his career. Yikes!

[@abletoflowtrucking8064]

Thank you i look for days for these

[@marssalvy4070]

Very good and explained video, as I’m sturdy for home inspector 👍

[@leeroberts1192]

Why not have RCBOs on all circuits?

[@Testing329]

Gloria a ti, señor, por todo/ viva Christo Rey

[@alfredocuomo1546]

Good explanation, now it becomes very clear why your generator must remove the bonding between ground & Neutral when connected to you panel. So my question would be if you had a small two circuit fiberglass infused PVC sub panel connected with PVC conduit where either way the return would happened with an insulated conductor or isolated ground path would be considered safe?

[@dannybevills1567]

Agree with the others. Best explanation I’ve seen. Now I fully understand the why. Thank you.

[@ElectricalCodeCoach]

Thank you!