Ninebot Z10 Observations after 550-Miles

[@carw2037]

Marty, thanks for your review! This video is a good complement to your other Z10 videos. It is refreshing to see an objective overview of this wheel! I think no wheel is perfect and reviews like yours really help the community weigh the pros and cons before purchasing a new wheel. Keep’em coming!

[@jackvolta3489]

Great review of the Z10 Marty with the pro's and cons out in the open, but never apologise for revealing the truth about a wheel, honesty is the best policy that one should never feel guilty of. Riders, Fans, & the community appreciate your judgement. 😁👍

[@jackvolta3489]

Hello Marty just saw this guy on you tube that may or may not be able to help with some mods on the Z10 especially the power switch & lights, you might find interesting! His videos titled: Luk Luk Z10 mods. Funny helmet with 4 lights and youll know you got it! 😜👌

[@Mr7352]

Wow .. I was wondering if I could listen to pandora while im riding ...Just got mine so im still learning about the z10. Thanks

[@dasppg9737]

I’m glad I chose the MSX 1600. It has been an amazing wheel!

[@TheseusMinor]

5:24 "Your map has been updated~" - MGS 5 Phantom Pain

[@SolarizeYourLife]

Going to need to add rubber cover for power button... That regenerative braking only one battery is a problem and is probably why you have not as much torque as you could have, if they had both batteries to throw braking current at, you would have more torque to slow down!!! Sounds like they need a major motherboard upgrade to add that circuitry!

[@riverguy319]

I just ordered one from China, how many of the problems have they fixed through the firmware? Anything?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Hope you love yours like I do mine. I still grab mine a lot. They really haven't fixed any of the problems in firmware. The only issue that still affects me is the poor pedal calibration. Just about every time I turn my Z10 on, I have to do a pedal calibration. However, I know other riders that don't have this problem. I also know riders that do. So it's a roll of the dice. But in broad strokes, the Z10 is still a favorite wheel of mine.

[@riverguy319]

@@ElectricUnicycles Thanks Marty! I live in Taiwan, a lot closer to the source, and there are shops that sell and work on Ninebots here. Hopefully I will be able to get problems taken care of here. I chose the Z10 mainly from watching your videos and thinking that you do the kind of riding that I want to do. We have great mountain trails and logging roads here that should be a blast. I also have a small obsession with Xiaomi products. Their stuff is so well made and high quality, I thought this was a good place to start. I went to the store near me and paid for an hour lesson and was up and riding in just a couple minutes, hopefully it won't take too much time to get proficient. Thanks again for the info!

[@riverguy319]

@@ElectricUnicycles, 1 month in and almost 200km and no pedal issues. I do occasionally get a speed wobble, but it's easily corrected. Thanks for all your info and demos, it really made learning how to ride easier.

[@riverguy319]

I had to do my first pedal calibration today! Hopefully it won't be a recurring problem.

[@cstingle]

I noticed similar firmware issues in regards to pedal leveling in general and tilt up over rough terrain on my Ninebot S1. Can fix the general tilting easily through the calibration in the app. Haven't found a fix for the tilt up over rough terrain. On the S1 I find that it charges both batteries going down hill, not just one. Wonder why Ninebot made this change.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Thanks for the comparative info. Looks like Ninebot has a history of poor calibration performance. I can obviously live with it, but it's inconvinient.

[@mikeh6286]

Hey Marty. I'm pretty sure the tire is mounted on backwards.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I don't own this EUC anymore so I have no reference point to counter your assertion. Regardless, it road just fine. Tire direction on EUC's often is not as important as when tires are installed on two wheeled devices. And mostly it comes into play in rain/water where I don't ride EUC's.

[@maneeshdeva]

Where did you get the mirror for the helmet? I need one like that!

[@Mr7352]

I just bought one on ebay.. Either ebay or amozon im sure you can get one . a little over 6 dollars. Good luck with that.

[@LemonySnicket-EUC]

All of his gear is listed in the description drop down.

[@nambinhvu]

Maybe the light works like some of the other wheels where you tip it to the side then back up to control the lights.

[@barlscharkley5411]

Marty, the light sensor is just forward of the battery indicator, just behind the rubber cover for the charge port. Interestingly, after upgrading the firmware to 1.0.5, the sensor no longer seems to have an effect.

[@barlscharkley5411]

The light sensor began working again after cycling power on the Z10. The app exhibits some strange behavior, however. Maybe it's just my phone, but when I go into the Lights settings, and turn of either or both of the headlight and taillight, the buttons are greyed out, and don't want to be re-enabled. I have to slide my finger from the right edge of the screen across the button, then back to the right edge again to flip the switch. When I turn the power on, the LED light surrounding the headlight comes on. If I turn the headlight on and/or off using the power button, that surrounding light goes off. It doesn't come back on again unless I cycle power on the Z10, or I turn the headlight off and back on in the app.

[@PlusSign2Day]

Hi Marty, Year Later, What are your thoughts on the Z10? Still like? Appreciate? Can you still recommended for People that have other wheels? Just for the experience?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I still ride mine every week. Love it, and it still runs great. I highly recommend it, with this caveat: since Ninebot does not appear to actively support it (warranty, etc) outside of China, I only recommend it to people that can easily afford the price and wouldn't be very upset if it broke and they couldn't get warranty service. It's a blast of a wheel to ride, and it's my go-to wheel for around town.

[@Duf]

As soon as I saw the thumbnail was not you holding and hugging the wheel I knew this would be a rough one. ;)

[@icafese]

Thank You Marty, for this observations! I understand your choice of beautiful scenery at the peer, but sound has suffered a lot. Wind, waves and airplanes, even noise of Z10 motor, but your voice?

[@michaelpaolini]

Thank you as always! So net net you prefer it and it’s unique ride, warts and all, over the majority of other wheels you have access to, including the mSuper X, for rides less than 35 miles or so. I suspect can live with the warts as well as we have similar tastes in EUc’s, and I intend to only buy one 18” ish wheel- it’s between the Z10 and mSuper X, and given my preference for fun over commute, I think you have cemented the choice on the Z10.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Certainly, if you don't need the range and super-fast speeds, go with the Z10. It really is a special, fun wheel. If the MSX had the same range as the Z10 I'd forgo my MSX. None of the things that I talked about in this video are deal-breakers for me. Just nuisances that only come into play periodically.

[@nambinhvu]

I don't understand. What makes this better than the X? The lift button, the looks, and the mud guard (you can add aftermarket on other wheels)? I don't see why that would warrant liking this over the Gotway or other wheels for that matter. Msuper X can handle steeper inclines, has higher top speed, can take a heavier person, which means you can carry more gear and other things in a bag. I think even the msuper v3s+ beats it. If you want more nimble turns, just up the pressure in the wheel, though the ride will be more harsh. I still don't understand the hype behind this wheel, please explain.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Have you ridden one for an extended period? Probably not (most people haven't). The only wheel that handles this nicely at slow speeds is the Gotway Mten3. No, adding more pressure to the MSX tire will not make it handle like the Z10. The Z10 looks cool (that's worth at least 1-point) and is very fun to ride, both slow and fast. At slow speeds, it's pure pleasure, and at higher speeds, it's a much more physical experience, which can be fun in its own way. Look, obviously this is very subjective so I'm not saying that I'm "right". All I can do is give my impressions of the wheel (positive and negative). I very much enjoy the Z10 and when I choose which of my 10 wheels to ride, I'm often drawn towards the Z10. The Z10 is not for everyone. Go with your gut. This wheel does not call to you. Embrace your feelings and pursue other wheels that move you. Most importantly, get out and enjoy riding :-)

[@michaelpaolini]

nambinhvu couple of things. First the Z10 is rated for 350 payload, the same as the mSuper. Second I’ve done a few hundred miles on a borrowed mSuper v3, it is a component wheel, but it’s more transportation than fun. It’s hard to describe, but some wheels have a combination of performance characteristics as well has balance that combine to make the sum greater than the specs - the mTen3 is such a wheel, the MCM5 is such a wheel as well (yup I’m a Gotway fan boy as I own both and returned my InMotion V10F because it was not even close to being in the same league as the Gotways). Similarly, I turned down the KS18L because it felt pretty much the same as a KS16s, and while that is a good ride experience, it is once again on he commuter end of things. Maybe a better way of explaining it is some cars are fun to drive (these tend to be sports cars or jeeps or so on), they connect the driver to the road or the experience. Other cars are just cars and a reliable way to get from point A to point B - like a Toyota Corolla. You don’t wake up and go man I want to drive that Toyota Corolla today... maybe I’ll go find a twist road to no where and just drive. But you sure might do that with Mercedes convertible. Why is that, they both have similar specs in the fuel tank size, the weight of the car, the number of stations on the radio, even AC. Sure tires and suspension play into it, as does breaking and acceleration, but it is more than that. It’s the feel of the steering, and so on. The Z10 has remarkable different tire and suspension (it’s tubeless, it’s large, it’s fat, and so on), but it’s more than that which is why Marty is having trouble explaining it. The Z10 is a rally car in a world of Toyota’s and Honda’s.

[@nambinhvu]

@@ElectricUnicycles I ride my msuper v3s+ 25mph+ all the time. That alone would make me uncomfortable with that wheel. Haha Also, how slow are we talking? I often ride my wheel slower than or as slow as people walk because people like to walk side by side to take up whole pathways...one of the most annoying things I encounter. XD I hate telling them to move over or asking them to let me through, so I just slowly follow until they notice. Maybe I should go on one of the group rides and try out all the different wheels.

[@bratic80]

3:58 it’s probably a safety feature, quick and easy in emergencies to switch off

[@ronnedal]

Great review! On the negative part, my head is about to explode after listening to the wheels squeeky beep sound in the bakground for 20 minutes. I have the InMotion V8 and I can't understand why they would chose to have power on/off with short push of the button and long push to turn light on/off. What I love about it is to able to silence it to the point that the only sounds it will make is the really vital sounds like overpowering of pushing max speed. Hearing the on/off, blutooth and sound like that gets old in 15 minutes. Blinking lights are extremly irritating both for rider and to traffic, to not be able to control the light is ever worse. I'm leaning towards the KS18L for next wheel. One thing I don't like is the light switchen depending if you're going forwards or backwords. You should be able to turn that off, it's just confusing for traffic.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Sorry, the camera microphone amplifies the motor noise. It's a very quiet wheel in person. This video was focusing on the items that could be improved. I love the Z10 and highly recommend it. Nothing talked about here is deal breaker, for me.

[@ronnedal]

No worries, I love your videos. But it might be something to think about in coming videos. To turn near by wheels of if you're gonna talk for a long while. When I first got the idea for another wheel the Z10 and MSX was in the mix. But after some consideration I ruled them out. So now it's down to the V10F or 18L. Keep up the good work!

[@zekerandolph1397]

That's absurd. How could it possibly charge only one battery at a time? Aren't both batteries connected in parallel, so they'll charge simultaneously?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

It's not absurd. Do you own a Z10? By now (Oct 2018) this is a well-documented behavior of the Z10. FYI, the batteries are not connected in parallel. There are two battery packs and each one has a separate connection on the control board.

[@zekerandolph1397]

@@ElectricUnicycles As an electrical engineer with some familiarity with motor drives, I'm having a tough time visualizing how such a contraption would work, let alone how it could be economical. Following the standard circuits and procedures naturally results in regenerative braking. In short, it doesn't make sense. Do you have a link to a schematic?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

@@zekerandolph1397 No schematics. These are commercial products using proprietary technology.

[@zekerandolph1397]

Just read through an incredibly long thread on an electric unicycle forum, and saw a couple images of the control board. There is a disconnect transistor in series with each battery, probably to disconnect the battery from the DC bus if it is being charged too much or too quickly, and possibly to disconnect the battery if it is accidentally connected in reverse during assembly. I must say I'm surprised to see this feature; I thought they wouldn't bother with the added cost. Combined with seeing two sets of Hall effect position sensors, and it's clear they're still making redundant electronics in the interest of safety, in old Segway tradition. I'm impressed. It seems like the electronics monitor the battery charging rate--even while riding--and if it is higher than the maximum charging rate specified by the battery manufacturer, they disconnect the battery. Unfortunately, the energy must go _somewhere_: with no battery attached to the DC bus acting as an energy reservoir, the DC bus voltage will get boosted up until the motor driver FETs exhibit avalanche breakdown and absorb all the energy. This would explain why riders have seen regen go away entirely. Unfortunately, this is even worse than abusing the battery, since the assembly was never designed to dissipate this much heat. A higher DC bus voltage also suddenly changes the drive dynamics, which may be why you experienced difficulty keeping balanced. It's also possible that they are intentionally performing non-regen braking by employing a different commutation strategy to dissipate the energy in the motor windings. This too would change the drive dynamics, making it difficult to stay balanced. I would argue this aspect is over-engineered; they should just do what everybody else does, and abuse the battery by allowing a high charging rate (during riding) in favor of abusing the electronics. It's pretty mild abuse for a modern Li-Ion anyway, and as an added bonus the ride dynamics will stay consistent so the rider won't get tossed. Thankfully, the fix would be a simple firmware update, if they can be convinced that it's worth it. Otherwise, they should just have the wheel shut off; it's not good for the product to dissipate so much heat.

[@uwekatz5345]

The Light Sensor comes direct after the charging port, you cannot disable it. but it works perfect.

[@Mark-tq2pf]

no mention of the wobble at higher speeds? i've been riding my Z10 and all the sudden there's a ton of wobble to the left and right. especially with the recent firmware update. it felt quite dangerous because it was unexpected, and resolved by slowing down.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Wobbles are caused by rider technique, not firmware or electronics. Some wheels require an adjustment to how you ride the wheel to minimize wobbles.

[@Mark-tq2pf]

quite possible. however it feels much more stable with the sensitivity adjusted down in the settings. i still love the wheel, just took me by surprise

[@Jack15237]

Thank you for the observations, just some more questions ^^ Were pads delivered with the production wheel ? Do you feel the imbalance because the battery pack aren't placed symmetrically ? Is it a good wheel for "small shrimps" (around 60 kg) ? Can it reach 60 km without charging ? Have you tried it on paved roads ? Compared to the Inmotion V10 that have high pedals, what do you think of Z's pedal height ? What about the comfort of the pedals ? Can the wheel switch off while you ride it because of the power button ? I've had a similar issue with the Ninebot S2, my grocery bag touched it, fortunately it was at a traffic light and I wasn't really riding How loud are the speakers (compared to the V10) ? (can you hear them through your full helmet/wind ?) Do you feel like the lights are bright enough at night ? How is the Z' braking compared to the V10's ? Finally, for a mostly urban use (and some rare rides of possibly 50 km), would you recommend Ninebot Z, Inmotion V10F or Gotway MSX/MS3 ? Thank you for your answers

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Lots of questions! If you care to see more of my thoughts on this wheel, and others, please visit forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/10776-my-z10-triumphs-tribulations-and-failures/

[@fazer12779]

Can you push any of your wheels with the power off using the handle?

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Technically, yes. Practical, no.

[@carw2037]

(Unrelated to the Z10, but answering your question) I push my ks18L while it is off quite often. Since the lift sensor is not reliable, I often choose to transport the wheel while it is off. The key is to push, not pull - the trolley gives you enough stability to steer the wheel to where you want it to go.

[@ChrisLeeX]

The ninebot z10 having exceptionally weak braking is a non-starter for me.

[@yoshiskysun]

If this is your wheel of choice, does that mean you will now paste a Ninebot sticker on your helmet?

[@small-timegarden]

In terms od the trolley...o was thinking the same for the V10...roll it backwards😊

[@willywin7591]

What is your favorite wheel? by characteristics I like tesla very much but I have read in forums that usually give problems, my use would be 80% city and 20% sand

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Sorry, it's really hard for me to pick a favorite wheel. I really like my Tesla and think it's a great city wheel. Generally, I think it's been a very reliable and safe wheel from Gotway.

[@T-Sav]

Are you sure you have ever seen them flash , or just on a video? Because it could be the capture rate of the video and the light making it look like they are flashing, because in the video you are stating "they flash sometimes" as if they are not flashing now, and they clearly are in the video.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

At this point, I do understand that the flashing is just an artifact of the camera record.

[@viajandee]

The headlight flashes in the video only because of your camera recording frame rate. It is probably made in China based on 50fps while in the US you guys are using 60fps and that what causes the flashing effect.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

Old video. Yeah, I eventually realized that's what was happening. Thanks.

[@skyvulture5432]

Hi re light flash in video it could be due by the recording frame rate. my 0.2cents

[@ElectricUnicycles]

You may be right, but I'd swear I've seen the flashing with my eyes too. I have doubts though.

[@ThumbdownMan]

good info.

[@MrJbchocolate]

Looks like the good overweights the cons...recently I noticed eWheels took the wheel off the repertoire?

[@eifmelaim]

Good video with a noisy audio track XD

[@mazzugara]

Get the review, the scenery, can smell the sea breeze, but, what's with the white curtain? That I don't get, sorry.

[@ElectricUnicycles]

I live and ride in Southern California where the Sun shines just about all of the time. So that my neck does not turn to leather, I wear a Sun Scarf.

[@Robzenith601xlb]

Grab some sunscreen buddy.

[@LemonySnicket-EUC]

@@Robzenith601xlb sunscreen has to be reapplied constantly and it actually causes me to sweat more and it's a greasy mess. The towel or scarf is actually very common attire in Texas. You can get it wet and it cools you off. To each his own.

[@Electric_scooter_ride]

Молодец! Очень красиво )

[@inozemec_]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@inozemec_]

У вас чудовий KZbin канал

[@danielesquivel1251]

I don't know where you are located but maybe next time you can choose a quieter place to do your evaluation.All that sound is very annoying. I appreciate your efforts but like I said maybe a quieter place would be better. I'm not even going to finish listening to this.

[@MartyBacke]

Thanks for the feedback

[@inozemec_]

Дякую за регулярні відео

[@inozemec_]

Хочу собі таке моно колесо )))

[@Flashylightsmeow]

British accent!? You must be tone deaf. It’s Chinese!