Fancy FREE FUEL forever? Kia’s incredible Vehicle To Grid system goes live NEXT YEAR.

#kia #vehicletogrid #electric cars
The Kia EV9 has lots of very clever features which will keep you comfy and safe and do all the things you might expect. But forget the looks and the seats that massage your bottom. The most interesting part of this car for is the fact that you can ‘fuel’ it for free.
At home. Forever.
In fact, you might even get paid to charge it.
And you will be helping the planet at the same time.
This all sounds too good to be true, right? Free electricity? How does that work? Well, this really is the plan. And while it sounds crazy now, do you remember when mobile phone calls were 50p per minute? Now you get them for free as part of a package costing a tenner a month.
Key to Vehicle to Grid tech is Kia’s new charger, which allows the energy to flow two ways. We wanted to show it to you, but it’s not pretty enough yet for the company to show off yet.
But it works. If your house has a sudden spike in demand because you put your telly on at the same time as the kettle, oven and immersion heater, it can ‘borrow’ a bit of energy from the car’s battery without you even noticing.
This means you won’t be using electricity when it is at its most expensive. As there is less strain on the grid, it will also mean that the generating companies won’t have to fire up another coal power station. The EV9 has enough energy to power the average house for five days. So you can take a lot out without worrying about having enough range to get to work the next day.
That’s clever enough. But the next stage - if you allow it - is that your car’s battery can power not just your house - but feed power back into the grid so your neighbours can use your car’s battery to boil a kettle. And as it’s a peak time, you will get paid more for the energy.
As you are charging on the cheap and feeding it back in at expensive times, you can make a profit. Or at least get your energy for free. It is being tried in Spain first, and we’ve been promised that it will be in the UK by the end of 2024 once Kia has done the deal with some energy firms. But every EV9 will be ready for it when it comes.
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[@gohumberto]

I have 8Kw of Solar panels, which generate a lot of surplus in summer. This will be of real benefit to me, and governments should make it a mandatory feature on hew cars, and new homes. (Solar panels and rain water collection should also be mandatory..but that's another topic). Exactly what the World needs, to smooth out demand on the Power Stations.

[@tshikosiphathutshedzotshik1396]

The kind of car that's needed in South Africa right now. 100k of these plug at home could stabilise our grid

[@LarryNgetich]

Yeah, I feel for you guys especially with the loadshedding. ESKOM really did you dirty. Love from Kenya.

[@sleep_gaminglife]

So looking forward to when V2G will be widely available to the general public!

[@kinross24]

True but you’ll need extra consumer unit rewired and safety devices added. The system that Ford require installed in the USA for their Lightning customers costs around $3000 to get installed.

[@sleep_gaminglife]

@@kinross24 that's true. But with mass adoption things generally get cheaper.

[@rjmacf0015]

@@kinross24 So appropriate to add some reality to the Kia advertorial! Funnily enough the general principle is used as a new way to capitalise their profits. Gullibility is the biggest human frailty beyond lack of education. 😉

[@tincho679]

Excellent presenter! Humourous but with precise info too👏👏

[@dalroth10]

Great to see this idea being developed beyond current capabilities and I look forward to seeing it arrive in the UK.

[@loadapish]

Its just another item on the other side if the glass for me. Livin in poverty and frustration just watching what i cant have

[@AlanTPT]

Love this style of presentation and great presenting. Reminds me of that Jeremy Clarkson q&a on top gear but this is very informative.

[@diluxe]

1st time watching a vid on the channel and I'm subscribed, really well produced and thought out video.

[@Electrifyingcom]

Thanks! Appreciate the support.

[@wkdsush]

This guy's a comedian 😂😂😂 Love it!

[@fairman1455]

Thanks great presentation.

[@chrisbailey1966]

The Nissan home charger/collector was very expensive and only certain electricity companies were in the scheme, so area specific. Will the new home unit be bought by home owners or part of a scheme so that it's yours eventually. Looks a good idea against having separate home batteries, and on that will it take into account solar and make it more worthwhile selling home generated energy too at peak times?

[@gmuzz]

I want this but can't afford an ev9. Will it be on 24 plated ev6s or nitro EVs?

[@GlassActivist]

Will the EV6 refresh coming later this year gave V2G? I can't find anything saying this.

[@nicolasdujarrier]

It is nice that Kia (and also Renault) are planning to start commercialize cars that are compatible with V2H through AC toward end of 2024 (finally !!!). I am wondering if it would technically be possible to also integrate in the car the option to have V2H/V2G through DC, that the car has basically both options directly built-in…

[@CubbyTech]

Sounds neat on paper! Wow that outro music is really bad :(

[@hairzilla]

I wish they would release this already or at least tell us what it costs? Is it a state secret?

[@matbowden9156]

Prices start at £65k

[@LarryNgetich]

Is it using an LFP battery or NMC? The NMC batteries won't have long to work, especially in Africa.

[@andrewpitts6498]

The future is about to happen 😮😁. Do you know the outgoing max power rating. Presumably it'll vary depending on battery charge percentage? Exciting times.

[@mrmawson2438]

Sounds oo good to be true

[@saddlecrazyut]

Will this never be available for current models? I have a 2020 eNiro and would love to use this system if it were to become available as a retrofit.

[@paulsmith3921]

This is not a software thing. It requires a great deal of hardware changes and will not be available to older cars.

[@Ohllalla]

@Electrifying So, if i understand correctly my EV6 coming january 2024 will not be able to do this? and won't be able to have an update to do it?

[@Electrifyingcom]

I don't think it will, unless Kia facelifts the car before then.

[@nick0047]

Tesla has v2g as well. I don’t know if it works the same. Will both run the 6.0 kwhr home air con for a couple of hours at night from these EVs. Without cost to the owner? Still trying to get my head around this.

[@Reddylion]

Nice hyundai kia ev

[@michaelcraigkaiser]

Very interesting. How will this work if you have solar panels? Would you be able to store excess energy not used during the day in your cars battery to use overnight and also top up the grid? Then top up your car when the sun rises in the morning?

[@flyingpanhandle]

Yes. Essentially its a Tesla Powerwall with wheels that you can drive around.

[@kinross24]

Yup, sort of! It’s what I do just now with my home storage battery. You need additional electrical work carried out and an extra consumer unit, meter added as well as a safety device that won’t allow electricity to get onto the grid in a power cut, in case you electrocuted an engineer

[@davidhumphries3614]

Probably the key is the wall unit. I have a Zappi and it’s great with the solar. The wall box just needs to do the same and send surplus electrons to the car. Perfect. Interesting to see how the costings work for the energy companies. A credit for the use of the battery is probably the best method proportional to the size of the battery.

[@cmos1981]

I’m actually getting solar panels installed and I’m going to skip the measly 15kWh battery they’re trying to sell me because I can see that vehicle to grid will be much better. I work at home most of the time so the car is always plugged in. The only problem is the price of the bloody car 😀

[@caliwish7585]

Is Kia pushing this out to the USA?

[@ramirez71]

Great video! Do you need a specific wall charger for this kind of setup?

[@Logansix]

Yes. And it is expensive.

[@ramirez71]

@@Logansix do you know of one?

[@Electrifyingcom]

As it is AC rather than DC, it will not be so expensive according to Kia. They wouldn't commit to a price but about 30% more than a conventional charger seems to be about right.

[@matbowden9156]

​@@Electrifyingcomwhat if, like most people, you lease a new car vs outright purchase it? Are Kia not interested in bundling things together??

[@EcoHouseThailand]

It costs $18K to Power a House with Ford’s V2H F-150 Lightning. Ford's system is built in conjunction with solar energy company Sunrun, who have to make extensive changes the home’s electrical system. Ford Charge Station Pro Level 2 charger is required and an inverter installed by Sunrun to supply power to your home. A cheaper and far more simpler solution is to connect any car with V2L to the ac input of a solar inverter (normally used for backup generators). I have uploaded a video explaining how it’s done.

[@GWhisperer]

What is max power output in KW of the vehicle for house loads? 10KW would be great, but I have a feeling it'll be half that.

[@mikewhitehead50]

I’d be surprised. I think it’ll be more like 3kW.

[@GWhisperer]

@@mikewhitehead50 you're probably right. Was just wishful thinking on my part, given the car can probably take in 11KW or 22KW AC, figured they'd arrange the onboard inverter to reverse the flow back out at a decent amount. I think Ioniq 5 has a max output of 3.6KW at 240v from a small dedicated inverter?

[@markreed9853]

@@GWhisperer I think you need 3 phase to go any higher than 7.4Kw in the UK

[@matbowden9156]

​@@GWhispereraccording to the rep at the UK unveiling it's upto 22 kWh bi-directional

[@davidcolin6519]

I don't know how the hell they got Spanish electric producers to agree to a trial. I live in Spain and it is extraordinary how far their contracts will go to ensure that they don't pay anybody for the electricity you hand over to them. That doesn't mean that solar panels (PVs) aren't sensible investors, but it does mean that there really isn't any point in adding more capacity. Unfortunately, Spain really isn't the best country for EVs because our population is so spread out over a very large area, and such a large proportion of the population has no off-street parking. It's a curious country really, a dispersed population that, when you do find a community, most people live in flats. I suppose the fact that it is so mountainous is the main cause of that. I would say that Spain does do a couple of things really well for EVs; we get a €4500 reduction on the price of a full BEV and €2500 off if you hand in an old gas guzzler, so long as it is over 7 years old. The government may also help with the costs of installing PVs (up to 80% of the installation cost - but only if you live in a house, not a community of flats [!!?]) and you also get a cancellation of your local rates for 5 years. But it really did surprise me when I heard you saying that it had been trialed in Spain.

[@davidhumphries3614]

Spain has a very high solar penetration, so there are good arbitrage opportunities.

[@davidcolin6519]

@@davidhumphries3614 Yeah, but you get next-to-nothing for any excess PV power you sell back to the grid. Ask me how I know.

[@davidhumphries3614]

It’s not how much you get for selling to the grid, it’s the avoidance cost of using it in the house. Essentially retail price.

[@nickaskew2840]

Do we know what the charge/discharge rate will be of the V2x system with the EV9. I’m hoping it’s not limited to the 3.6kw of the V2L system?

[@matbowden9156]

Hello mate... I went to the UK unveiling of the car in Rainham, Kent. I was told the car itself is capable of doing 22 kWH, or effectively 3 phase, as a single or normal UK domestic supply is more 7 kWh as we are of course 240v times 32amps so 7.6 kWh. As the owner of an XC90, a 50 kilo dog, four kids that are only getting bigger and a wife - whilst also being within walking distance of the expanded London ULEZ, I'm all over this V2x. My thinking being... Why drop ~10k on static battery storage, when I can better use that for the car 🤔 I'm aware version 2 of the wall box charger worked with a Cupra back in June, so well 🤞 I for one am truly looking forward to this car going on sale 👍

[@jobicek]

It should be able to discharge as fast as it can charge. As far as a battery is concerned, charging is more stressful than discharging and so charging rates tend to be lower than discharging rates. But AC chargers typically come nowhere near those limits (the battery would have to be very small by car standards). As far as grid is concerned, main breaker of your house is a hard limit for V2G (that's what a power company reserves for you in the grid). V2L is limited to 3.6 kW because connectors and cables for consumer electronics are rated at 16 A and they are single phase (230 V * 16 A = 3,68 kW). I.e. the socket which is provided is only rated at 16 A and therefore cannot deliver more than 16 A. If you need more in a single socket, you need an industrial socket which is not very practical in a typical V2L scenario (V2L is not meant as a backup for an entire house, that's just a hack; in that case, what you want is V2H, not V2L). However, nothing is preventing them from providing an adapter with an industrial socket, single- or even three-phase. Other than (lack of) demand. In the future, you might see such a thing in vans or trucks as an alternative to on-site generators.

[@redline2981]

Do I need to modify my current home Zappi charging system to use the V2G or V2H?

[@oneeyedgirl617]

No. Inverter to change DC to AC will be in the charger or car.

[@AEKok]

You said the v2h is AC. Is it because of the Bi-Directional charger which you connect to the car? What charger is used?

[@oneeyedgirl617]

The car battery requires DC to fill it up. To use the battery to power the house, you need an inverter to change DC to AC. The inverter is in the charger. A normal charger converts AC to DC only.

[@ottot3221]

Very promising but I want to have one thing clear, I see it has V2L (you can have 2 sockets in your car to power something) but is this car V2X (Vehicle to everything), or V2G (Vehicle to Grid) and V2H (Vehicle to Home) or only V2G?

[@benrgrogan]

They say in the video. V2H and V2G with the KIA wall charger.

[@StefEBear]

The way he talked, to me, it sounds very much like V2X, mentions V2L, and also 5 days of charge for your house (V2H) and then later it can do V2G, when the electric companies come on board.

[@jobicek]

@@StefEBear I think he only mentioned 5 days to illustrate scale (I don't want to watch it again). I don't think the video provides any details about V2H and possibilities for home integration of this particular charger (solar panels and so on). After all, the topic is V2G and a free charging scheme, not V2H.

[@mev202]

Interesting, essentially the same as my solar panels and house battery, i charge it at night or with solar. Then it just sells the excess throughout the day. The only thing i cant do is sell it for more than i buy it.

[@drysdalekev]

If you are octopus flux, you can charge overnight at 20p/kWh then sell back during the day at either 22p (or 35p at peak time)

[@seanweirdbeard]

Well that should make some of the other manufacturers step up an think too non?

[@nicolasdujarrier]

One question I have about V2H through AC is, in case of the grid is down, is the V2H to take over smoothly without inhabitants noticing ? I mean will there be a short interruption, or light flickering or will it be 100% transparent ? Also what the maximum output power ? If the car is equipped with a 11kW AC inverter to recharge it, will it also be able to output up to 11kW to the house if needed ?

[@oneeyedgirl617]

I was on a V2G trial with a wallbox, and it is seamless.

[@nicolasdujarrier]

@@oneeyedgirl617V2G is more about sending electricity back to the grid, while V2H (Vehicule-to-Home) is about powering the house from the EV, using the EV as a generator. That the reason why I was wondering in case of black-outs, can it seemlessly take over ? Also, in theory, if someone has photovoltaic solar panels, the EV could be used to store peak electricity production during the day, and then power the house during the night… Would it be seemless ?

[@oneeyedgirl617]

@nicolasdujarrier I use my Leaf solely for the purpose of powering the house as it isn't feasible buying it in at 9p and selling at 8p with V2G. When I switch the kettle on, the only thing you notice is the IHD ramping down from 3kwh to zero. Never had a blackout in the 3 years it has been in use.

[@entropy5431]

If you are lucky enough to charge at home then charging costs very little per year, mine is £350 per year for around 10,000 miles. It's a nice perk but is it worth having your car never at max range? Removes the need for a wall battery I guess.

[@haveaseatplease]

A good (dependable electronics and a useful capacity of 3 to 5 KWh) wall battery is around 4 to 6 grand. So that's quite a saving there, isn't?

[@christophergallagher9146]

What will the range be for the EV9

[@darrens3]

At 80% charge it shows 391km at 2:57 it says. But 541km total on the spec sheet. However if we extrapolate out what's shown on that dashboard at the timestamp by comparison at 100% it would be showing 488.75km. so the person that drove that EV9 to that display area achieved that.

[@phuketexplorer]

Zero if you're uploading every last watt into the grid. 😄

[@fugixi]

V2G is great to have, but to think that you will charge for free is kind of ridicolous. If anything you can get paid when essentially selling back to the grid, but then you would have to buy it back. Does not seem any different than having a battery with solar panels on the roof.

[@markreed9853]

...the big difference is the grid/solar/home has access to the battery at home 24/7

[@mikesasges377]

It’s “sell high, buy low”. When electricity is expensive you sell it to the utility. When it’s cheap you buy it to charge the battery. You can charge your battery with a net zero cost.

[@davidhumphries3614]

You should make a decent profit, depending on the pricing.

[@yaulkwong3775]

Kia should plan make this car drive to a boat, or work with Silent Yacht so you can use the same battery on boat and drive to another home to charge / harvest solar outputs.

[@Solflex]

Hvad er energi tabet ved V2G ( %) ?

[@BobGorelick]

Yes

[@Podelect]

What will the cost be for buying vehicle to grid chargers

[@matbowden9156]

In one of the other replies, about 30% more than a regular charger, so about thirteen hundred quid

[@oneeyedgirl617]

The only V2G charger I have experience with was £5k to buy plus fitting.

[@magnox72]

It's a nice idea, but im guessing we'll be looking at a £70K price tag for the car, and no actual written contract from energy companies that they will continue with the scheme once they decide giving the energy away for free is not profitable enough. Call me sceptical, but this is the world we live in.

[@Leonard05]

Nobody brings up that they charge you $.10-.20 per kwh to use their electricity and buy it back at $.02 per kwh. It’s not a 1 for 1 value.

[@entropy5431]

In the UK with a smart meter and EV you can get intelligent tariffs where the car will only charge when the price is cheapest. Intelligent Octopus is one, this is just an extension of that.

[@rodden1953]

its a Powerwall on wheels just what i want

[@Mr35000000]

But 7 times more capacity! Think I will get one, I will be 8K better off, for not buying the powerwall.

[@rodden1953]

@@Mr35000000 I do have a powerwall but id love to have this but i cant afford to now

[@matbowden9156]

​@@Mr35000000I rounded to £10k but I totally agree! 👍

[@nssimpson]

Will it be an open standard?

[@matthewburroughs9597]

Yes

[@nssimpson]

@@matthewburroughs9597 That's good then.

[@phuketexplorer]

Filed under perpetual energy. No more gas or nuclear power stations, wind or solar farms. Well done Kia you've saved the planet. 😂

[@entropy5431]

Did you watch the video?

[@phuketexplorer]

@@entropy5431 No sense of humour?

[@entropy5431]

@@phuketexplorer Tell me something funny and find out.

[@dachsdk1559]

Lets wait and see.. there's a lot of varables in this, car manufacturer, charger manufacturer, energy company, communication protocols, regulations, taxation, and I probably missed some. And they all have to agree about this? I'm not optimistic.

[@chrischild3667]

Yes... sadly I agree. I'd love for it to work potential for grid balancing and green energy storage is massive.

[@heathghent2954]

Doesn’t this substantially exist through the intelligent octopus tariff for comparable vehicles. I get very low cost night tariff and Octopus choose when to charge my car.

[@Electrifyingcom]

The difference is the ability to discharge from the car's battery.

[@mikemellor759]

Interesting but would like to understand why Kia use an AC wall charger while all other manufacturers use DC - I assume there’s some trade-off.

[@Electrifyingcom]

DC can handle heavy loads, but the charger is around five times the price.

[@mikemellor759]

@@Electrifyingcom thanks for a quick, clear answer - I became a subscriber after this, my first, episode. 👏👏

[@The2follow]

Will this work for all Kia ev cars ? Such as the new Niro ?

[@markreed9853]

no

[@StefEBear]

No, only for those Models that are going to be made after the EV9 release, so no for all current models.

[@GTO20122012]

Hope they come up with a 2 door version

[@hakryt6457]

losing my battery lifecycle for neighbours i don't know of very good

[@murfmac9197]

This is on my Volkswagen ID3 Tour now....... came with the new software update.... just cant buy a V2H/V2G charger anywhere that is CCS😡

[@markreed9853]

wont need CCS, type 2 will be fast enough as your home-to-grid wire wont be that fast.

[@murfmac9197]

@@markreed9853 nothing to do with speed , it’s about how power is stored and then moved. V2H requires the DC power in your battery to be fed back to a charger that acts as a DC to AC inverter which then changes it from 400v DC to 230v AC. The type 2 cable that comes with a home charger only handles AC power….. DC coming from or going into the car comes from the two DC terminals in the bottom of an CCS charge port. V2L can send AC power back out of the type 2 port on a car only if it has the adaptor for a 3 pin plug that Hyundai, Kia and MG supply. Cars store power as DC …. That comes from the inverter in the car changing AC to DC then stores it in the battery….. cars don’t have 2 way V2H /V2G inverter on them so that is handled by a V2H/V2G charger which are either Chademo or CCS only . Not possible through a type 2 cable 👍🏻 Have a look at Indra V2H or Wallbox Quasar (Chademo) or Quasar 2 (CCS). None of the V2H /V2G functionality can be completed without CCS or Chademo

[@matbowden9156]

​@@murfmac9197if when you see one (I'm hoping the chargers will be bundled with the sale of the car) I'd be very interested to know. As currently 'there seems to be something' stopping them from being made available to the public 😢

[@rolandrohde]

The idea is nice, but without a way to retrofit it to existing EVs it's going to be slow starter. Cars usually have a lifetime of 10+ years, so it will be 10-15 years until we see widespread adoption. It will also cause the usual issue of there not being enough electricians that can intstall it

[@markreed9853]

My problem with V2G for consumer vehicles is the need for a new more expensive charger and that electric companies will mainly want access to your car battery between the 4-8pm peak period when most people will be driving home from work. I can see business vehicles like buses and vans working well as a more predictable use case, but we will see...

[@themomentalist]

What makes you think ‘most people’ drive home from work between 4pm and 8pm?

[@markreed9853]

@@themomentalist ... The consistent rush hour traffic jams we get in most cities between these times. If I left my work in retail at 5 p.m. it took around 40 minutes to get home, at 6 p.m. it took under 20 mins🤔

[@DrHazlehurst]

its a fair point (early adopters will always pay more). As ever, it will be whatever works for each individual. One scenario might be to have v2g chargers at the workplace as well as at home (but that's rather fanciful right now). given enough critical mass in the system as a whole, it may not matter. someone else can do those projections though.

[@themomentalist]

@@markreed9853 Just because the roads get busier at those times, doesn’t mean ‘most people’ are on the road at that time. You’re forgetting about the millions of pensioners who own cars and either don’t work at all, or work part time jobs with short hours. You’re also forgetting about the millions of families where one of the parents works part time. You’re also forgetting about the millions of people who work shifts in factories or in hospitality… The truth is most cars are NOT in use between 4 and 8 pm… more of them are sat parked up than there are on the roads. Just because traffic gets heavier between those times, doesn’t mean more than 50% of all cars are in that traffic.

[@rodden1953]

i have my shower at 10 am , what time do you shower ?

[@kinross24]

Not so accurate btw. You will need a new set of home electrics and consumer unit and gateway type device in order to allow electrons to grow back to the house without the possibility of traveling onto the Grid in a power cut and electrocuting engineers working on the line. This Charge for free system already pretty much is same as Octopus Agile that’s been out a couple of years!

[@mikewhitehead50]

It could work in a similar way to how a house with solar and batteries won’t export to the grid during a power cut.

[@kinross24]

@@mikewhitehead50 that defeats the eco point then. It’s marketed as a way to support and balance the grid. My battery and solar does export but we have a safety setup that costs only £300 and won’t send out to the grid in power cuts but does allow power to the home and cars.

[@mikewhitehead50]

@@kinross24 yeh I was meaning pretty much that.

[@petersz98]

What if you don't own or need a car? Can't you just buy a battery install it at home and get "free" electricity from it?

[@drxym]

V2G potentially allows EVs to act as a battery / backup to the mains or grid serving the same role as a Tesla Powerwall. The biggest issue I see, is performing this role will wreck havoc with the car's charge / discharge cycles and could significantly shorten the lifetime of the battery. Most EVs are probably plugged in once or twice a week whereas V2G implies having the thing constantly plugged in and constantly charging or discharging. So yeah in the video's scenario it might be "free" but you could pay the price in terms of battery degradation.

[@yitzele]

He literally discusses this point in the video

[@jonathantaylor1998]

I understand what you're implying, but, at least based on the home batteries I current have, I can't see it being a genuine issue - for example, my home batteries are warrantied for up to 10,000 cycles. Even if you assumed 3 cycles per day (unlikely, but still...) then that'd be over 9 years worth of use.

[@oneeyedgirl617]

Had V2G/H since July 2021, and I haven't lost a bar on my Nissan Leaf.

[@UnkleSi]

They aren't even making the ev6. Compliance cars. Shame, they're good cars.

[@chillmeister]

There are 4 EV6’s in my neighbourhood.

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

Tom's not going to massage my bottom? UNSUBSCRIBE! 🧐😏

[@Yanquetino]

YES! We need to implement bi-directional charging sooner rather than later, despite what Elon Isherwell thinks: "I don’t think many people will use bi-directional charging […] because if you unplug your car, your house goes dark and this is extremely inconvenient." DERP!

[@patrickmaartense7772]

tech is ready regulations are NOT ! and profit on the energy? ...... loads of losses on charge/discharge. ( I have a 100KWH battery on the house ) it is a nice feature, but not to run your house... I have a EV6 coming. that has V2L as well. I can use it to charge the battery if needed.

[@tangerinestorm]

I'm a home owner in fact I own a number of homes i don't even have mortgages. I don't have any off street parking though. I think you are confusing homeowner for owner of a house with off street parking.

[@darrenaitcheson795]

It will be great when this happens. Of course, it depends on the energy companies not being morons.

[@davidstuart4915]

:)

[@alunjones2550]

I'm not convinced when Kia says it doesn't harm the battery. I'm not aware of any battery technology that doesn't have some degree of degradation through use. My main concern with using a car battery as a two-way power source for the grid, is battery longevity. Battery life is still one of the big question marks with EV's and until we have an abundance of 10-20 year old EV's with a broad range of mileages, we just can't be sure how robust they are.. Those of us old enough to remember combined TV/video players that were thrown away when either of the two broke. Are we going to be throwing away a perfectly good EV prematurely because we've used the battery for other means.

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

its going to be a lot less stressful for the battery than driving it

[@alunjones2550]

@@rtfazeberdee3519 But the whole purpose of a car is for driving. Using the battery for other purposes will still add additional "stress to the battery".

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

@@alunjones2550 but less stress than driving

[@alunjones2550]

@@rtfazeberdee3519 But it's still stress, that will shorten the life of the battery. Why compromise the whole life expectancy of an expensive car to simply use the battery. That's my argument.

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

@@alunjones2550 Best not ever drive it then. He does mention that small discharge/charge cycles are good for the battery and its not the first time i've heard that claim. Battery management and thermal management systems are prolonging the life of batteries beyond what was expected years ago.

[@michaelcaton9358]

I think the one thing that EV makers need to get their head around is that we don’t all live in houses with drive ways etc etc. most, especially the young and urbanites will never have a driveway and often live in flats. This will be challenging for the future of EV tech. Otherwise these vehicles will remain the only for the upper middle classes or country folk….

[@8skellerns]

What's your answer for that? We should stop using EV's just because you live in a flat?

[@michaelcaton9358]

@@8skellerns No. My point is: That EV manufactures and suppliers of Ev charging points needs to find solutions for apartment dwellers. And people who make videos about EV's and EV's giving power back to dwellings, need to factor this into their films. Otherwise this lives within some middle classed fantasy that will limit EV expansion and use. I am pro EV. EV's are highly suited to city living but lots of us live in apartments with poor infrastructure to support their use. But I think you may have purposely took quite a negative reason to what I wrote to get a bit of a rise.

[@8skellerns]

@@michaelcaton9358 Maybe thats what the government wants lol! Those in flats especially in these 15 minute cities,walk and cycle and use the bus, everyone else drive a EV! Cynic head off, I do think maybe the landlords of apartment blocks need to be part of the solution too? So many tower blocks have basement parking, but no chargers!

[@michaelcaton9358]

@@8skellerns Definitely, I own my flat and the block is owned collectively but it’s hard to get people to think forwardly about these things…. Unfortunately, my city, London will never be a 15 minute city. It’s vast and polluted and needs proper EV infrastructure that people can use and afford…

[@MrRaitzi]

Using car battery to balance power grid is lunasy. It will destroy lifetime of battery. Cost from battery degradation is 0.2€ to 0.4€/kWh

[@Electrifyingcom]

As mentioned in the video, the V2G system has actually improved battery health in the tests.

[@oneeyedgirl617]

I can only state that in nearly 3 years with V2G/H, my Leaf hasn't lost a single bar.

[@mikeymike1792]

There's zero chance that energy companies will allow anyone to pay less than they're currently getting for their energy in the future. Even if it switches to monthly subscriptions, they're going to be around the average spend anyway.

[@Martinedo_]

if they dont allow it, people wont allow V2G. I dont see a point where they wouldnt allow it. it is so much cheaper for them to buy from you than buy from Market at high demand

[@davidhumphries3614]

If you can fill up overnight with Octopus Go or similar and run down the battery during the day, it has to be profitable. Say 50kW @ 25p margin is £12.50 a day.

[@matbowden9156]

​@@davidhumphries3614I'm wondering how intelligent, agile and flux will work? 🤔. This is presumably what they were all designed for 'really' but hey... 🤷‍♂️

[@davidhumphries3614]

@@matbowden9156 Exactly the same as having a battery, it allows you to arbitrage buy low overnight or when prices are low on a bright windy day and either use yourself at peak times or sell back to the grid. As there are more renewables on the system volatility increases. It’s a race between the rollouts of batteries vs wind and solar.

[@matbowden9156]

@@davidhumphries3614 Not quite, but hey... Close. Each tariff is of course slightly different. Perhaps they (Octopus and others) will simply drop a new/different tariff for when V2x finally comes online for the great British public? Who knows 🤷‍♂️ Thus, wouldn't it be nice to know if we (future owners of an EV9) will have the freedom to pick between V2H, V2G or VPP (Virtual Power Plant) and within that, if the bi-directional charger will in fact be circa £1,300 supplied and installed? Either way, this car is right up the top of my shopping list, as Rivian and there R1S seems like nothing more than a distance dream. My only real question with the EV9 right now (past how will the V2G actually work in blighty, when? And hopefully it'll work better than the Renault Mégane 😥) is why is the US reviews suggesting prices over there will start with a five, and yet over here in blighty, we are looking at mid sixties? Especially so, as my understanding was GBP was 'pretty much' always worth more than USD?? 🤔

[@johnevans6399]

I wonder how the rich get richer? 🤔

[@Joram0611]

They also seem to forget that NCM batteries are not good with (dis)charging vaom 0-100% the whole time. The newer LFP batteries have no issue with that whatsoever. Also, most western countries rarely, if ever, have actual power outages. And besides that, the whole "they won't have to power up another coal-power generator" doesn't add up… to use EV-electricity, the EV needs to be charged up first. And last but not least… even energy companies also have CEO's that want their yaghts and big houses. There's no way they will "pay" you to offload the grid.

[@yitzele]

The fact is that can already sell electricity back to the grid...

[@craigburgess2237]

I’m getting 12p a kWh from Scottish Power right now so they do pay.

[@Joram0611]

@@craigburgess2237 Oh wow, you're living in one of the few countries that actually do pay in that case. I hope they won't get smart and smell the (extra) profit they might gain anytime soon though ;)

[@kinross24]

The car and system won’t let you drain that far. Mostly a few KW per day and in a slow trickle. Trial’s actually doubt it’s good for EV batteries health to be used as V2G in this way.

[@GeordiLaForgery]

You forget that the CEO's have private jets, yachts, horses, ferraris, butlers etc all of which are very expensive so they'll never let you have anything for free.

[@carlosandleon]

It’s in the vehicle price

[@matbowden9156]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qISvg5uuhLN3bKc For those that missed it 👍

[@clonSanG]

In Ireland the electric company won’t do that not a chance government in Ireland tax electric cars their dodgy as f..k

[@irekfilms]

Obviously if you use the battery moor then only for driving it will degrade even quicker ,it might be clever but it will not help the battery health 👎😂

[@londonyes1380]

Probably not considering he mentioned that a house can run 5 days on the battery which means very little degradation is likely to happen.

[@emmanuelapac3315]

This is a marketing gimmick. Every car manufacturer worth their brand, do want to say they can will offer you this and that etc. Vehicle to load etc isn't going to be worth it, if you can't charge in your driveway.

[@darrens3]

If it's marketing gimmick why is everyone asking for it because they currently don't have it? That assumption fails at the first hurdle.

[@yitzele]

If you don't have a driveway, it's a gimmick, yes. But if you do have a driveway, it's no gimmick at all

[@betsyduane3461]

So NOT FREE in any way

[@goonmerchant]

Interesting but its going to massively increase the amount of charge cycles - I would think this will degrade the battery much more than just general charging. Also in the UK the price of selling electricity back to the grid is very low and much lower than the offpeak rates so you'd always be losing out selling at a fixed rate so the idea that you could charge for 'free' is just ridiculous (at least here in the UK).

[@chrisriley6415]

Depends on your tariff, I'm on Octopus flux and the export rates at normal and peak times are higher than the import rates at the off peak time, so it is more possible than you think. I'm making enough money from export to cover the gas side of the bill and have some left over....

[@craigburgess2237]

I buy at night at 4.5p and sell surplus solar during the day at 12p. The real value of V2H for me would be winter when solar generation is very low and my home batteries won’t last all day. Having the car on hand to help get through the evening would be very financially beneficial.

[@phuketexplorer]

LOL There's not a country on the planet that pays more for electric put back into the grid, than was originally paid for it - and that includes cheap overnight tariffs in the UK. Power uploaded is typically refunded at 1/4 - 1/5 of the normal unit rate

[@phuketexplorer]

@@garysmith5025 For four hours on one specific day of the year? 😄

[@reddeviluk]

​@@phuketexplorer which is it.... No one ever, or one specific day of the year..... You can't switch your comment to suit your purpose.

[@PedalPowerPanther]

I made nearly £30 with the octopus cut your consumption days this winter. Not a massive amount but shows what’s coming hopefully.

[@PedalPowerPanther]

@@reddeviluk good point.

[@chrischild3667]

Norway have these schemes. I'm sure others do but CBA checking. Here in the UK there is Octopus Flux (as well as Outgoing/Agile) which lets you buy for 19p in the morning and sell for 33p at peak times 3-7pm... every single day.

[@Beorn.]

Unless Kia vastly improve their interiors and stop using recycled plastics, namely polyethylene terephthalate or pet for short, I will never buy one. Just Google " is pet plastic harmful to my health "? By the way does anyone recall " our grid will be able to handle ev's "

[@BMWHP2]

The 1 stand-out point is . . . . . this SUV weighs over 2.5 metric ton ! ! ! ! talking about wasting earth material and environmentally stupid. What a total idiocy to build or even promoot this, that it "helps" the planet.

[@burropoco]

It also transports up to 7 people and the vast majority of the materials that go into its construction are recyclable. I currently have a diesel MPV and will absolutely replace it with one of these, that is surely a net positive for the planet.

[@yitzele]

You're welcome to transport your own 5 kids in a Dacia sandero

[@BMWHP2]

@@burropoco Average car 50 years ago was below 1000kg and the famylies were bigger. And even back then 95% of the time the cars were transported just 1 person. People seem to think they cant live without a SUV. Same goes for the 3 metric ton pick-ups that so many people need, coarse the have a "busyness", when asked, the sell sunglasses. The vast majority claims to need a 7 person car, when in fact, average familie in the USA is 3 persons . . .so 2 adults and 1 child. Average family size in the EU is with 2.2 even less. Mostly 2 person households and still they "NEED"a SUV Strange, that so many say they "NEED" a SUV, and claim it is the best car for the environment.

[@BMWHP2]

@@yitzele Average size of family in the EU is 2.2. So the most are 2 person households, and still they claim they "NEED" a 7 seat SUV. Yeah, right. For that 1 exeption in a 1000, fine, go ahead. But the reality is, that SUV's are the most sold vehicles, and 95% of the time transport 1 person.

[@yitzele]

@@BMWHP2 who are you or anyone to judge what size car a person needs or wants. Once you go down that route it's slippery slope.

[@Paul_C]

Sadly that body style has the tendency to kill pedestrians, children and cyclists. So no, it is a bloody awful contraption.

[@entropy5431]

Shame about the pedestrians and children but perhaps worth it for the cyclists.

[@matbowden9156]

Might be worth checking the safety features before you rule it out, unless you just felt like venting of course? 😊

[@xoqes]

Free electricity for a monthly fee. So it is not really free now isn’t it?

[@yitzele]

Free as in massively cheaper