Elements of Idolatry: Sexual Pleasure

Excerpted from Lesson 1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle & Evangelist John the Theologian, Series 2, by Fr. Peter Heers
The element of pleasure and the element of purpose must be united. To separate them and focus on pleasure above purpose is idolatry.
• Idolatry & Its Relatio...
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[@specialcombatdefensivetact1784]

There is no right way to do a wrong thing! Wrong in Gods eyes is Wrong! Thank you for this important teaching. Never as a Protestant did I ever hear more clear direct teaching on this subject.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

I suppose contraception is always a sin?

[@pah9730]

@@prayunceasingly2029 Intentionally closing off the openness to conception is all pleasure no purpose, yes. Relations which are open to conception but at the end of a women’s cycle and thus less likely for conception are not problematic.

[@sleepystar1638]

murder in self defense

[@internautaoriginal9951]

@@sleepystar1638 Is not murder

[@sleepystar1638]

@@internautaoriginal9951 lol its guilt free murder stop kidding youself

[@gerardgrywacheski1418]

It comes down to respecting our bodies and those around us. The Holy Apostle Paul says that our bodies are the temple where the Holy Spirit dwells...by giving into the passions we are defining ourselves and others. We must pray to God to help us in our resistance to these temptations and also repent and ask for his forgiveness whenever we commit these sins!!

[@MrSofuskroghlarsen]

Amen.

[@Србомбоница86]

Amén

[@Nathan00at78Uuiu]

Now I understand more why the judgment seat is fearful and the day of judgement as well and also how we are in need of much mercy. Instead of spending time justify and excusing ourself, we should just beseech the saints, Panagia, and God for mercy.

[@apkapk5304]

Lord Help Thy Servant To Come Out Of The Terrible financial crisis that My Family are facing Lord Have Mercy Christ Have Mercy Holy Spirit Have Mercy ✝️❤️

[@sharps8726]

Pleasure Clout Power Materialism The gods of this world.

[@dianeduquette6368]

I’m Roman Catholic but I love listening to you father.

[@stalkek]

As someone brought up under that umbrella also, the very fact of calling oneself a Roman Catholic rather than a Christian is pretty telling. Jesus wasn’t a Roman for starters!

[@LadyMaria]

@@stalkek For Orthodox, we call ourselves Orthodox Christians.

[@MrSofuskroghlarsen]

@@stalkek Why start arguing about denominations here? The man agreed with the father on the issue.

[@artifexdei3671]

@@stalkek Peter was, he started a church in Rome. and Jesus sent him there. you are obviously clueless.

[@marcokite]

me too

[@kyriakosvarveris4260]

Την ευχή σου πατέρα Πέτρο.

[@chookiechooks]

This was so interesting. What I got out of it was that, while morality is a roadmap with which we navigate our earthly lives, is that it exists to keep us out of the hands of the demons who seek our ruin, and to remind us to use our bodies as they were intended by God to worship him. Thank you, Father.

[@spyridonboanerges9483]

Please add Czech subtitles! Thank you very much! God bless you 😉

[@ivygarcia9525]

Amen. Thank you Father 🙏☦️

[@lucycastro9428]

Excellent teaching Father. Thank you!

[@rustonhill7705]

If we are going to theologically reduce the sacrament of marriage in the same Aristotelien fashion Aquinas and the west reduce the Eucharist, I will still vehemently disagree that the "purpose" of sexual relations in marriage is childbearing. The Orthodox purpose of sexual relations in marriage is Eucharistic integration, the ultimate two becoming one, with God in their midst, the reproduction (not merely of children, many couples have sex and never conceive) of a profoundly holy Trinitarian type of the archetypical Trinity Himself: God, Husband, Wife, the primary type of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, experienced most profoundly in the marriage bed, a type of the Transfiguration itself (makes me wonder if you've ever experienced this type of transfiguration). We should only do this for the purpose of children?!! So the woman who undergoes a hysterectomy should never have sex with her husband again? This is western theological reductionism. It is Aristotlelienism at its worst, dear Father. This is NOT Orthodoxy. This is Roman Catholic heterodoxy and fear mongering when you suggest that married couples are worshipping demons when they give themselves to each other Eucharistically in the undefiled marital bed. There's a reason we separated from Rome in 1054.

[@applesnicolle5144]

With homosexuals sexuality is severely Distorted… they enter a very dark abyss

[@LadyMaria]

When heterosexual couples mimic homosexual acts, that is severely distorted as well.

[@applesnicolle5144]

@@LadyMaria / Yes agreed! It’s really disturbing that ppl do this - I recall hearing a very holy monk say this - even Buddhist Dalai Lama condemned distorted sexual acts. Purity is essential for not just spiritual enlightenment But even for normal healthy living bc sexual deviancy affects the psyche!!!

[@LadyMaria]

@@applesnicolle5144 Yes! That is why chastity in marriage is important.

[@z71overland05]

Powerful!

[@franciscafazzo3460]

im helpless please pray I want freedom. I have become ruined. pray for light. and a church

[@mstash5]

I just prayed that God look after you in this hour, Francis Cafazzo. I hope your condition is better than before. Find the nearest Orthodox church and go there, see what activities or feast days they have posted, and speak with the priest. Tell him what you're suffering.

[@franciscafazzo3460]

I'm tormented and body mind and without rest I'm no peace no looking for the Savior made look for me

[@stevepa999]

Sexuality within a marriage has a second purpose. It bonds the couple.

[@TriciaRP]

@@IAMFISH92 how to repent of these things and live back in Christ. I made a mistake and have demons in me. please pray. I want my salvation

[@WinkThatCouture]

@@TriciaRP get baptized as an Orthodox if you haven’t already, since it cleanses all sins. Confession after baptism is the second baptism that cleanses sins. A priest can better advise you on a prayer rule. A simple “Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner” is a powerful daily tool to have in the mind at all times. God bless.

[@QigongQi]

Many, many, many womens in modern American culture cannot.pair-bond anymore due to to many "partners" in their past, but modern gynocentric culture and a coddeling lack or accountability society says females can be free from consequences and men are just supposed to take them after they have had 3 husbands etc...Many.men cannot bond as well due to factors as well.

[@QigongQi]

@@WinkThatCouture Messiah is our High Priest, intercessor, not a man in a church building. I still don't buy I have to go to a confessional booth to have my "sins atoned" for by telling them to a complete stranger, so he went to seminary schools and wears a fancy robe and he is to be trusted?

[@LadyMaria]

Bonding of the couple and procreation go hand in hand.

[@tamaraw.118]

TY🍇💜🙏☦

[@anargyroi]

Elder Savvas Achilleos, that's to whom Fr Peter refers. His canonization isn't far. He foretold some things about the vax..

[@LadyMaria]

As did another Saint, St. Paisios. God wanted us to know well what was happening by giving us these holy men. 💗

[@rustonhill7705]

Fr. Peter, are you an Orthodox priest or a Roman Catholic priest? I ask this because you sound about 90% Roman Catholic with the Aristotelian theological reductionism in which you divide "purpose" and "pleasure" with a surgical knife fashioned by Thomas Aquinas himself. This is NOT Orthodoxy and NOT the ancient Christian understanding of sexual relations in marriage. You go so far as to characterize aspects of the sacramental marriage bed as blasphemous? St. Paul declares "the marriage bed is undefiled" in Hebrews 13:4, and Solomon instructs us, "rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; And be thou ravished always with her love" (Proverbs 5:18-19). "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20). You are going so far as characterizing the act of love and unity in marriage as "idolatry," scaring the faithful with accusations of worshipping demons simply because they find pleasurable the great blessing God has given us, the very act of union between man and wife, the very integrating sacrament that is the very type of the Eucharist, Christ's own nuptual union with His bride the holy Apostle Paul says quite succinctly in Ephesians 5:32. This is exactly what Fr. Alexander Schmemman speaks so clearly against: the Western Captivity of the Orthodox Church. This teaching to the faithful destroys marital union, breaks trust, and instead of the Eucharistic integration between husband and wife, encourages disintegration of the Eucharistic type of sacrament Marriage actually is. I invite you to embrace the Eucharistic and Holistic ancient and Orthodox understanding of sexual relations in marriage and stop calling what is good, evil, and stop scaring the Lord's flock. Married people are NOT worshipping demons when they experience pleasure in their marital union. Pleasure is not inherently good nor evil. It's just pleasure. Obviously pleasure can "spoil" the soul, but with the marriage crisis going on in the 21st Century today, we, as pastors, need to be encouragig married couples to rejoice in what God has given them, to rejoice in each other, and to come together often in their undefiled marriage beds, not to abstain from it, anymore that we would encourage them to abstain from confession and the Eucharist. Lord's blessings Father. --Fr. George Hill, OCA, US Army Chaplain

[@rustonhill7705]

Ahhh, this makes sense finally: From the Statement of the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States, on of all times Bright Thursday during the first week of the Paschal celebration: "The Assembly can further confirm that Archpriest Peter Heers is not a clergyman of, or on loan to, any other canonical Orthodox jurisdiction in the United States. To the extent that this individual purports to act as an Orthodox priest in the United States, including celebrating the Divine Liturgy and the other services of the Church and teaching the faithful and those who inquire into Orthodoxy, he does so in a manner outside of the Holy Canons."

[@Orthodoxzee]

Father I just failed. Im very disappointed with myself. I know it's wrong while I'm doing it yet I do it anyway. Why must I give into these demons. I want so desperately to defeat this addiction to lust and pleasure

[@Stephen-uz8dm]

The Lord loves a "brave warrior". Someone who never gives up the fight no matter how long they fall. Sometimes He lets us fall because we need to be humbled. Most importantly you must confess.

[@vessietaylor]

💞....Truth

[@bil1k600]

who do yo love? who do you trust? who do you worship?

[@applesnicolle5144]

When Sexual pleasure becomes deified by perverted Godless ppl, then door to Demons opens

[@Србомбоница86]

Fr Peter can you please speak about toll houses ,they are very scary and many people want them not to be real even though they are ?

[@SLVBULL]

Lepotica moja

[@mstash5]

Keep in mind that the aerial toll houses may be metaphorical rather than literal, but I am not a spiritual authority. View your life as a series of similar trials in overcoming the passions, and you should not need to fear.

[@Србомбоница86]

@@theodosios2615 it's mentioned by many Saints

[@ryanward72]

​@@theodosios2615It actually is. Ironically enough, Billy Graham essentially "reconstructed" the teaching on tollhouses just from reading the Bible, without any input from Orthodox tradition. There is a "particular judgment" at the death of an individual, and the demons are always our enemies and accusers. Put those 2 clear Biblical teachings together, and you already have the tollhouses.

[@jonathanreeve7823]

Sorry father only talks about sex 😬

[@randychurchill201]

I get the impression that if you want to be Orthodox you have to wear old clothes from Good Will. You have to eat very little and what you eat has to be basic and plain. You can't buy a new car so you end up with an old car which then requires thousands of dollars in repairs. If the whole world became Orthodox, what would it look like? Would everyone live in the woods and eat snakes and scorpions? I've visited Orthodox Churches in America and I see a lot of nice cars parked outside. In fact, some of the Greek Orthodox Churches I've seen are extremely affluent. Frankly, Orthodoxy leaves me feeling confused.

[@bestpopeofalltime]

That sounds awesome. If you love the world just say it. Orthodoxy doesn’t need lukewarm people 😂

[@JonathanSaxon]

Well I'm watching this video and I have no idea whats going on. How on earth does enjoying sex = devil worship. Just utterly bizarre.

[@randychurchill201]

@@JonathanSaxon I can understand why you might not understand the video. You have to understand that in Orthodoxy they see any perversion of what is natural to be demonic. Because the sin of Adam in the garden of Eden brought death into the world, which is unnatural to us. Death in Orthodoxy is not natural. God did not create death. Death, sin, and Satan are almost the same thing in Orthodoxy. You could call death, sin, and Satan a kind of Satanic trinity. Sin is also unnatural to us. Because God made us to be good. So any use of something in an unnatural way is the human will to move away from the good. Sex can be used as God intended or it can be perverted to something unnatrual. And because we live in a fallen world, we have a tendency to go astray and misuse the natural way God intended us to live. Orthodoxy is easy to misunderstand. if you don't understand their theology, philosophy or metaphysical understanding of the created order it's going to strike you as odd. I sometime overreact myself but the more I understand their way of thinking, the more what they say makes sense. If you have been conditioned by a Western mindset, Orthodoxy will be a strange paradigm for you.

[@JonathanSaxon]

I didn't get notified of this comment!!! I don't see why its an issue to love sex. These people just don't like pleasure I guess. Which is an odd thing to type LOL. I think sex is to be enjoyed in marriage and there is no issue with experiencing pleasure. We were created to experience pleasure why is it 'unnatural'.@@randychurchill201

[@misko933]

Hello Father :), Just recently I've been spending some time researching sex and marriage in the orthodox way so getting help and advice is very welcoming especially from someone who probably has some experience with this I wanted to ask you If this means that we constantly throughout our sexual life have to be open to children? And If we do not, then we a living in sin? Since if we do not want to have children, then we cannot have sex that leads to being open for pregnancy(which is as you describe the only sex allowed). And If we avoid sex then we are restraining ourselves from our spouse which is also not allowed unless both agree.. But agreeing on not having sex ever again at around 30 years old seems insane to me. I'm 19 right now and new to orthodoxy, and I know its the true faith and just these last couple of days I've been learning about the biology and these internal orthodox marriage restrictions so I'm just having a hard time right now. I also found out that each month a time frame can be determined when the woman is most likely to get pregnant. Is avoiding this time frame a sin if we wish not to have more kids? I planned to finish college and get married at around 25-27 years old and have a wife at a similar age. But If we were to have sex regularly this would lead practically to a child every year until her fertility naturally starts dropping. I'd end up with like 5 or more kids and I don't know If I'm ready for that kind of thing even as an idea hahahahahahaha But I guess this is me leaning on myself and not on God and a sign of weaker faith in God. God wouldn't put something on my shoulders If I truly couldn't handle it. And I also do not like that having a lot of kids to me seems more of like a huge trouble. I'm pretty sure I should be very happy and thankful to have such a blessing but I still on a fundamental level do not think like this. If you could give me any advice, material to read, books, that can help me and other brothers and sisters that have this similar issue(since I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with this problem in mind lol) it would mean a lot!! For an example, how to prepare for marriage, how to raise a lot of kids properly, the secrets to a healthy marriage and so on. I love your content and videos, always a joy to watch! They just sometimes are very harsh and hard to accept but I know that's just sinful parts of my soul slowly being replaced with holiness that comes from true orthodox teaching. May God bless you!

[@YousefOshana-uu1ec]

Amen

[@nickbrodziak611]

I've struggled with this through much of my adult live. Besides prayer, are you saying icons in the house can help against these demons?

[@julianabramlett6178]

Fr. Peter, thank you for your teaching. I’m trying to find patristic sources on abstaining from coming together during pregnancy?? This teaching makes sense but is new to me and I’d like to read more on it.

[@childofthelord5183]

7:32 This is not explicitly explaining. I prefer the KJV it makes it more precise. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[@sinisaknezevic4022]

Why nobody tells that the experience of God's presence and his mercy is higher experience than sexual pleasure? Orgasm as the highest form of material pleasure is just a mud footprint related to the touch of God.

[@JonathanSaxon]

I really don't think we should be talking like that. Drawing a line between orgasms (carnal) and worship (spiritual) is very dangerous to me. They exist in different dimensions.

[@gab31282]

What if one of the purposes of married sexual pleasure is also for bonding and strengthening the marriage bond. Isn't that a legitimate purpose?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

It is BOTH - AND - always

[@gab31282]

@Miss BellJr Yes, it does. That fact is even backed by science. That's one of reasons in the Bible it is forbidden outside of marriage and encouraged in marriage.

[@anothercat1300]

​@Gabriel Camarena That doesn't mean anything. If it were true, divorce rates wouldn't be so high, and people wouldn't be sleeping around.

[@acekoala457]

​@@anothercat1300 It's deeper than just divorce rates. A lot of Americans have engaged in Premarital and Extramarital Sexual acts prior to "Settling Down" if someone cannot properly pair bond, as someone in a healthy sexual relationship can, then it ends in disaster. There's a reason why those who waited for marriage are happily married at a higher rate than those that didn't.

[@jdaunno1]

So it's a sin to have sex with your husband if you're not having babies? What if you're infertile? I don't understand.

[@bornforburning777]

Would the reverse be true as well? Is artificial insemination immoral due to severing pleasure from purpose? also btw I'm a protestant, but I really love what you are saying about how the moral life is inextricably linked with the spiritual / cosmic war. I came out of the occult, so that was very obvious to me as a young Christian. Sometimes I feel we can downplay the truly hideous impacts of sin so as to try and comfort the sinner.

[@LadyMaria]

It severs not pleasure but the marital embrace from the making of children as children are supposed to be fruit of the marital embrace, of the marital bond.

[@Smiley_Face0]

Some Orthodox Saints say that IVF fertilisation is how the Antichrist will be created. Saint Porphyrios says that the Zygote-Embryo, so the unborn baby is in the mothers womb is there for a reason for protection. Otherwise children could be easily possessed and will have problems when they are in their 20s (I don't remember the exact age anymore but you can google it). Of course this also anytime a woman somehow gets pregnant through unatural ways. Also of course IVF is killing a lot of children at once our the Zygotes are used for immoral experiments. Also God decides when and if a human gets created. IVF is a satanist act. Catholics pro life organisation have written a lot about this horrific topic too

[@nika...]

Partly artificial insemination is immoral Bec it involves abortion of the unused fertilized eggs which is essential to the procedure.

[@artdanks4846]

As much as I love this ministry, and as tremendously helpful as it continues to be, on THIS particular issue I feel that it very much misses the mark! There is SO much more to sexual relations within marriage than JUST (1) pleasure and (2) procreation! To narrow it down to ONLY these 2 things, is almost in a way TURNING marital sexuality into a form of idolatry!! The REAL issue in marital sex is about giving of each other in LOVE, so that the 2 can literally become ONE FLESH, which of course is about Christ and His Church! The concept taught here is eliminating the 2 most important aspects of sexual relations in marriage, and sadly replacing them with (1) physical pleasure (which is focusing FAR more on the passions), and (2) procreation, which GOD is the one that determines whether or not we will produce offspring, not us! What if a couple is physically unable to produce offspring? Would we say they need to remain abstinent for the rest of their marriage because the "element of procreation" can no longer be tied to the "element of pleasure"? I highly doubt that would be the case! Sadly, this teaching seems to have a very low and even earthly view of the marital sexual relationship.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

The video was one minute. The video was not addressing the entire theology and life of the married couple. The video had one specific purpose and one aspect was addressed. What was said was entirely patristic. Of course you cannot cover the entire massive subject of marital life in ONE MINUTE.

[@artdanks4846]

@@OrthodoxEthos Actually, it was 15 minutes and 44 seconds.

[@artdanks4846]

@@OrthodoxEthos Father Peter, it just dawned on me that my last two comments (above) more than likely came across as very arrogant and haughty, and almost an attack. PLEASE forgive me for this, as I definitely did not in any way mean it as an attack on you or your wonderful ministry! This channel has brought me more hope and joy over the True Gospel than I have had in years! And I thank God daily for you and your ministry! So please, forgive the rantings of an old sinner, who at times says things without thinking thru how they might sound. ☦️ 🙏

[@LadyMaria]

It seems pretty orthodox to me..

[@anothercat1300]

Theres other ways to give yourself to others with love than sex. This subject is a difficult pill to swallow for most people. Sex is nothing but a means of procreation.

[@beslanintruder2077]

It's better not to even look for a spouse, even for men. According to St Paul. It's kind of extreme and I have to disagree in some regards to Paul..But I guess I have to if I Love Jesus. Sigh....

[@LadyMaria]

Those Orthodox who do not seek a spouse and commit to being "single" become monastics usually.

[@reaperanon979]

How so? Just don't put it where it doesn't belong naturally and don't go out of your way to prevent pregnancy and trust in God's providence, you can still avoid the ovulation period if you want. Second part of that isn't even remotely hard if you actually love a woman, only the first part. Even then, not exactly hard to avoid. Marriage is a way to sanctification, it's in no way better to not look for a spouse unless you want to become a monk or something. You'd just make everything harder for yourself.

[@mannss42884]

Correct me if I am wrong, is this teaching saying that unless a husband and wife have sex and are always open to the act of creating children during sex it's fornication? And are there ANY exceptions to this? For an example mother struggles with mental health or physical ailments that could keep her from taking care of multiple children?

[@LadyMaria]

Those things are to be discussed with one's spiritual father. We did and are permitted NFP (though it's unclear I can have children).

[@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh]

@@LadyMaria she can just read what Paul wrote about sex/marriage in his epistles. He is in a sense our spiritual father. He addresses sex within marriage and fornication.

[@franciscafazzo3460]

where can iu go for help, prayer and confession /

[@pah9730]

Go to an Orthodox Church or monastery

[@NorthmanWoodworks]

Fr. Peter, when there is no chance for procreation (in my case as I had a vasectomy procedure over a decade prior to finding the Church) would it be considered a sin to have sex with my wife as only the element of pleasure is present? Please help me understand!

[@thessalos5467]

That is discussed in this booklet holycrossyakima.org/orthodoxPdfs/BOOKLET%20ON%20CONTRACEPTION%20St.%20John%20Chrysostom.pdf

[@artifexdei3671]

you should seek out a good catholic priests. catholic church has better refined theology than orthodox. you'll find answers to your questions there.

[@tg2535]

@@artifexdei3671 If you truly believe that, why are you on an Orthodox channel, being taught by an Orthodox priest?☦️🇨🇦🙏

[@NorthmanWoodworks]

@@artifexdei3671 that is completely uncalled for. I’m not interested in leaving the Church for papism. It would be absolutely foolish for me to fall into heresy, not to mention that I’d rather hear hard truths from an orthodox priest than comfortable lies from a Catholic one.

[@artifexdei3671]

@@NorthmanWoodworks so papacy is heresy. you go against the very words of Jesus who appointed Peter in charge of the church, and it has continued on like this for 2000 years. against the very words of Jesus.

[@1michaelcobb]

Bless, Father. Is there some way to improve the streaming quality?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Good point.. we are working on it.

[@Ioannikios174]

@@OrthodoxEthos Father, bless. You could perhaps set up two cameras, one to record and one for streaming, and then use the recorded footage on these clips.

[@AL-cu7lh]

Question: I am a catechumen, Before I came to the church ai had five children and then tied my tubes and seperated from my husband. I am in a new relationship now and marriage has been discussed. Having my tubes tied, it would seem that purpose would be removed from the equation. Is it then a sin to be in a marriage or engage in sexual relations after marriage?

[@thessalos5467]

That is essentially discussed in this booklet i would advise you to read holycrossyakima.org/orthodoxPdfs/BOOKLET%20ON%20CONTRACEPTION%20St.%20John%20Chrysostom.pdf

[@pah9730]

Difficult. Needs a lot of prayer and discernment. First: focus on becoming Orthodox . Second, once baptized, then find a good spiritually father which has the gift to guide on the narrow path. Third, consider marriage - only in the Church and only with an Orthodox Christian who is struggling to live in repentance.

[@AL-cu7lh]

@@pah9730 Thankfully he was born into the church & I agree that focusing on catechism needs to be my main focus. This topic definitely gave a new angle to consider. Thank you for your time responding

[@LadyMaria]

@Heaven & Hell Testimonies If they were not married in the Orthodox Church, and she comes into the Church the previous marriage didn't really count as it was not in the Church. Only the first marriage in the Church is a Holy Mystery. A second is penitentiary and not a Holy Mystery. Those aren't too common. A third is even more rare and same. Divorce brings excommunication for a time to promote healing. We do not have the "GET OUT OF MARRIAGE FREE" card that Papalists have in Annulment, that looks for legalistic loopholes to declare a marriage never having happened. A Roman Catholic couple can never know if they are truly married the way Papalist annulments are set up. Tubal ligation is not abortion as there is no baby. It is wrong but not abortion. You are linking things that aren't Orthodox and leading people astray. That "hell testimony" is Protestant or Roman Catholic propaganda as it presupposes their flawed theology. It is false at worst and prelest at best. Instead of looking at others' sins, look to your own and mourn for them.

[@anothercat1300]

The most important thing is God. Seek him first. Sexual idolatry is extremely common and difficult to overcome, but God is greater.

[@IridescentEye]

How can a married couple have sexual congress (at least at the beginning) without pleasure (if they do I would consider it a bigger sin ... a clinical sin)? ... Pleasure equals idolatry? ... You've got something wrong here. There's nothing wrong in a sense of idolatry between a loving couple, as long as they have the knowing of an overarching greatness. I've been looking in to Orthodoxy recently and I've been quite taken with it ... but you've put me off ... hopefully you're not the majority voice.

[@LadyMaria]

That's not what is meant. Pleasure can't be the over all object of the marital embrace. It can't be the sole reason. The reasons are to strengthen the marital bond and the fruit of that, having children. These are the two important things. We have to will the best for our spouse and not be selfish.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

That’s not what was said in the post. You didn’t listen carefully. Pleasure and purpose go together. When it’s only pleasure, when it purpose-less, when it’s not according to God‘s command and the boundaries he has laid down, then it becomes idolatry. It’s then serving ONLY the desire, as an end in itself. FYI: …unnatural and perverse sexual acts condemned in Scripture are beyond the boundaries of the relations that are blessed, that blessed marriage bed. …pleasure and purpose should not be separated within the relations. …human physiology points very clearly to what is meant for each organ, the mouth has its purpose and it is not for sexual reproduction and pleasure. The same goes with the anus, the purpose of which is NOT sexual pleasure and reproduction.

[@ChileVerdeDavid]

Are we only to have sex to have children? Not to make love with out spouse?

[@SlimeySlimeball]

Watching this smoking weed….Lord have mercy on a sinner…

[@OrthodoxEthos]

He will - but you have force yourself to stop and ask the Lord to give you HATRED for sin and slavery to passions. Reach out with all of your heart and wage war and He will fight for you! Grit your teeth and HATE SIN and LOVE TRUTH with all of your might!

[@reaperanon979]

Trust me brother, you can kick any addiction with the help of the Lord. I've been addicted to pornography for 14 years and I've almost kicked it completely, fell back maybe a couple times in the past... don't even know how long, a very long time. Previously it was a daily occurrence. Any time you get an urge to do something you know is bad, simply say the Jesus Prayer (Jesus Christ, Son of God have mercy on me a sinner) and it actually just goes away. Just say it several times, close off your imagination while you do it. The hard part is persuading yourself to say it in the first place because you'll feel a strong resistance to it. If you can't say it right at the moment and you fail, simply say it afterwards, preferably while sober and ask for mercy and the strength to say it when the urge to sin hits you. It's a daily miracle what such a simple prayer can do for you.

[@beslanintruder2077]

Is it idolizing because you enjoy the other person's body as you have intimacy? Seems that Augustine would agree and say before the fall, sex was mechanical without passion. I mean if people are thrown to hell for that than maybe it's better not to have sex, even with your wife. I've heard in Bulgaria of old believers who will not look at each other's body or wear pillowcases over their heads and sheets while they have intimacy. You think people are making mountains out of molehills.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Jhon Murphy - He didn’t say it’s an idol if you simply have pleasure while also purpose. He didn’t say that. Of course you’re going to have enjoyment. The Lord arranged it so. But it shouldn’t be detached from the purpose. We must be open to procreation.

[@anothercat1300]

I'm more on Augustine's side. It only seems logical from an Orthodox perspective that sex is extremely dangerous and stirs the passions. I think what Father Peter is talking about is that the desire for procreation should draw us away from the passions that sex stirs. I find it rather confusing that he's saying this but is also giving room for sin in the comments. It doesn't make sense to me. Im more on board that it's better to just remain single and focus on becoming Chaste. Marraige is a minefield.

[@filip350S]

@@anothercat1300 How is sex dangerous if it’s a natural thing and it’s needed to reproduce.

[@sonicman52]

I’m a catechumen, but this whole thing about me not being able to have sex anymore without having babies everytime doesn’t sit right with me . . . I must be misunderstanding something . . .

[@butuc8763]

Why not?

[@pah9730]

It’s being open to conception. It Doesn’t mean one becomes pregnant every time. It requires trust in God‘s providence. A very good thing to aspire toward. And there are sexual relations (without contraception) which happen at the end of the cycle which are still open to conception but much less likely.

[@artifexdei3671]

you should become catholic. catholic church recognizes unitive union between spouses and procreative union. catholic church's theology is better refined, more detailed as supposed to orthodox. you'll find full answers there.

[@sonicman52]

@@butuc8763 Because it doesn’t make sense.

[@sonicman52]

@@pah9730 This makes a lot more sense, thank you.

[@maplenook]

Alphabet insanity has arrived. Thank you for the info.

[@NotThisShipSister1]

Sex ONLY for procreation? What if you are medically unable to produce children?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

You take it to the spiritual father and he guides you. An Exception does not break but prove the rule.

[@mstash5]

I'm not a spiritual father, but intense intimacy can be experienced without sex. In its _purest_ form it really is only for procreation within marriage.

[@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh]

@@OrthodoxEthos Or u could direct her to Pauls epistles to see what he wrote regarding sex/marriage.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Some mature content below warning: 1. If it was a sin to have sex apart from child bearing, women would get pregnant every time no? 2. If the body is the temple and holy, wouldn't every part of the body be holy? So why are we calling it unclean for sex? Augustine was wrong about sex he had mental hangups because he destroyed his conscience before converting. 3. I understand sexual activity in the rear being sinful because it is damaging, germs sodomy, and weird But if we can kiss other's hands, dead people, and feet, which are more dirty than a private... How is kissing your spouse's sensitive area bad? 4. How do we know individual church fathers are correct and not just opinion? I can pull up many 2nd century church fathers who affirm chilliasm strongly and hold the oldest tradition despite later councils.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

God sends children. Every single one. He allows and blesses. There are ways of having relations that are open to procreation without it being the exact time or the peak for procreation. One still has to trust God. One grows only when one trusts God. You trust yourself, you don’t grow spiritually If you live in the church, and you have a spiritual father, who has, and is under one of the contemporary saints and elders, you do not need to doubt, or guess about what church fathers taught at one point. We participate in a living tradition. If we do not, it’s all guesswork. This is the problem with the west: they lost contact with the living tradition, and now they have to do studies at academies to figure out what the church is supposed to teach and live. The patristic consensus guides us. Not one or two fathers. FYI: Just in case, this also is a problem for you: Regarding spilling the seed, in oral sex: The mouth is not meant for procreation. But for food. And speaking. Human physiology teaches us this. Do you need more? Obviously unnatural. The anus is not meant for procreation. But for defecation, the waist of the body comes from there. It’s not meant for the men’s sexual organ. Is this not obvious? Do you need more? God has created all things in wisdom. Everything for it’s own purpose. Why is this hard to understand? Are we driven by base passions and blinded as to the obvious truths that even children understand? Everything is answered when we are humble and submit ourselves to Christ in the church, and to the contemporary saints and elders and fathers who are walking the narrow path.

[@nananina982]

Sorry but if we follow that logic then the penis is only meant for urinating and you can't kiss with your mouth. only drink, eat and talk. seems wrongful logic to me@@OrthodoxEthos

[@ianmackenzie686]

Frustrating audio.

[@spyridonboanerges9483]

Please add Czech subtitles. Thank you very much! God bless you! 😉