Elite Dangerous goes PAY-2-WIN

Extremely sad news...
News announcement : www.elitedangerous.com/news/p...
What is Pay-2-Win : • PAY 2 WIN
Big thanks to @ObsidianAnt for coming along!
Read the article on FDev mismanagement : videogames.si.com/news/fronti...
ED announcement on ARX from 2019 : forums.frontier.co.uk/threads...
#pay2win #p2w #EliteDangerous
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[@apocalypticpioneers2116]

I used to tell people Elite Dangerous had the grind of a P2W game without the option to pay...

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

They’re reworking engineering to be less grindy. Direct quote from fdev yesterday: “Our focus will be on making Engineering more accessible and predictable, allowing you to focus on your ship build rather than the materials needed.”

[@MrDoggo23]

@@DUEL.FATALIS And at the same time release a pay to skip store option? I'll believe it when I fucking see it.

[@apocalypticpioneers2116]

@@DUEL.FATALIS I've been playing since before the engineering rework and I've been saying the game has P2W grind since I started playing. I'm only Elite in trading and that's because I used an exploit to get credits, specifically one of the passenger missions you had to fly like 45 minutes a trip to do. On top of that, Combat Elite takes forever, Exploration Elite is annoying and Arena Elite is impossible (abandoned game mode). It's cuz of all the people who kickstarted the game wanting the game to be a second job.

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

@@MrDoggo23 they released a community post TODAY stating they are reducing the amount of engineering materials needed, increasing backpack capacity AND increasing payouts of materials for missions.

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

@@apocalypticpioneers2116 well they’re changing it

[@RiotRabit]

"Design the problem. Sell the solution."

[@TinchoX]

It's genius really, but also very destructive.

[@bodazaphfa]

Sounds like Microsoft.

[@RiotRabit]

@@bodazaphfa tbh, it basically sums up all commercial software development.

[@xans9994]

That's how the all antivirus software was created :)

[@xans9994]

@@bodazaphfa Once normally configured Win works fine for years without failures. Although I personally prefer *nix, but there are enough hemorrhoids too

[@tomusmc1993]

We "fixed" it. If you don't want to play our abusive grind of an unspportive game, you can pay us to "not play our game"

[@saylsen]

Oh, yeah, they totally didn't announce that they're changing the grind for Engineering this year.

[@tomusmc1993]

@@saylsen What are you implying?

[@Tooterbooter]

They are also going to make engineering grinding easier in general, with reduced material costs. Also the paid for ships only have a couple engineered modules, with only about 10-20% of the total engineering for the ship. It’s at a stage where as someone who plays and understands the game, the pre-engineered ships are not really worth anything, but for someone who is newer to the game, has money, can’t play elite often, and wants a shiny toy to screw around with, I say let them buy a ship with a touch of engineering to make it feel special yet still underperforms in every way when compared to to a player who put in the time to engineer their ship. Engineering will become easier to obtain, less grindy, and yeah, players can pay a little for a relatively small boost in the grand scheme of things. As long as they don’t offer any CG modules in paid packages or max engineer the ships, I think it is fine. They actually are doing something the community has been asking for: MAKE THE GAME LESS GRINDY! The fact they are releasing new ships and starting on non-Thargoid reworks seems like a good sign for the future.

[@tomusmc1993]

@@livingworldsgames Well, that is an opinion for for sure. Not very well explained, but it is an opinion.

[@tomusmc1993]

@@Tooterbooter It's irrelevant to me. Fdev has already burned any integrity they had back with Odessey. Nothing short of new ownership would get me back to play, and I sure as heck aren't giving them money for anything. I was simply remarking that in a game that essentially dead and known for its unbalanced engineering, horrendous grind, and lack of meaningful game play for a live service game, adding a "pay 2 win" mechanic makes total sense to me. They want immediate cash as the game dies. Well played FDev.

[@DarthWall275]

As Obsidian already put it: "there's a difference between being disappointed and being surprised"

[@Zenithanimations]

No fucking way EA dangerous

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

El(EA)te dangerous

[@Disnamesucksass]

ED is now EaD

[@ethanhawke603]

In fairness this PTW is so small compared to an EA game like EAFC/FIFA. Go play that then come back to elite. This is virtually nothing when compared.

[@almightyIrie]

@@ethanhawke603 can't say that without knowing what they gonna offer in the store.. I'd argue a fully engineered top ship would be as p2w as the p2w items in EA games, maybe even more so.

[@AniGaAG]

@@ethanhawke603 You're still comparing a turd to diarrhea. Yes, diarrhea is MORE yucky, but that doesn't make the turd tastier.

[@WeirdTippy]

Next they'll put the fuel rats out of business by charging £2/$2 for an emergency tank refill

[@carlosbacco]

shhh!... 🤫

[@Mp57navy]

Great business idea! EA should buy them at this point.

[@mr.e0311]

yeah keep that shit to yourself.. the brit beta boys dont need any more "ideas"

[@Sturm01]

Wait you mean not everyone runs a scoop on every ship they have? 😮

[@DefaultMale_]

@@Mp57navy No thanks! I still want to actually be able to play the game. I'm not buying an EA account.

[@ProcyonDei]

"Timesavers" and items to "skip the grind" is the developers/publishers admitting that their game is designed to waste your time... edit: Another bit of the patch notes that's worth talking about is where they mentioned a "revision" of the prices in the Arx store; note how vague they were about their wording, they don't mention what the changes are, and also how they say "But players can still earn Arx by playing." That's a clear indicator of them looking to inflate the prices...

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

Another bit of the patch notes that’s worth talking about is where they mentioned they’re reworking engineering to be less grindy. Direct quote “Our focus will be on making Engineering more accessible and predictable, allowing you to focus on your ship build rather than the materials needed.”

[@pikkuraami]

Well, here might be a news flash. EVERY game is designed to waste your time. That is kind of idea behind every game, and every other media of entertainment.

[@MrDoggo23]

@@pikkuraami Not every game is designed to waste your time and offer you a way to pay big buckerinos for the illusion that you waste less time. That's just a bad take in general.

[@pikkuraami]

@@MrDoggo23 Wrong, EVERY game is designed to waste your time. Even those single-player off-line games. So is every other form of entertainment from books to movies, podcasts etc.

[@MrDoggo23]

@@pikkuraami Then why are you here? You are wasting your time.

[@marbledgold0605]

When the Console Update for "Space Legs" was cut, I knew this was an eventuality.

[@GenesyssOmega99]

Exactly when this happened I uninstalled the game and stopped supporting Fdev. They strung me along for months and only before release they cut console support. A huge middle finger to a player base that supported them.

[@netshaman9918]

When i saw the first time there was micro transactions for cosmetics , i knew this was definitely screwed, but i had still a hope , but when odyssey came without VR i cannot have denied the evidence anymore .^^

[@mfoco1]

It became inevitable long before then. This can be traced back to the day they broke the Kickstarter single-player promise, forcing game-dependence on servers which were only going to get their cash-flow from selling cosmetics.

[@joecherry6879]

I'm still devastated over that one. Though seeing what's become of the game I used to love so much and could totally lose myself in, just makes me hang my head in despair.

[@milanondrak5564]

I knew this was coming too. When they abandoned the console customers they lost a large percentage of their customers for all their products. I don't play any Frontier Developments games at all any longer. If I'm given poor customer service by a company I never go back.

[@robustdelirium9277]

Jeez… Elite’s coffin is more nails than wood at this point.

[@DystopianDIY]

Underrated comment. 😂

[@Rittik]

I was thinking “another nail in the coffin” when I read the title. They sure have wrote the book on how to ruin a game with so much potential. Guess it’s time to change my icon.

[@PyrrhoVonHyperborea]

Sounds like an iron maiden... -- Now that I think about it: that actually is a wonderful analogy for the game called -"grind-ception"- _"Elite:Dangerous"_

[@VW_Self_Engine_delete]

I was so close to jumping back into elite, this is taking it to another level of stupidity

[@sunlightcrusader]

I used to love Elite then Odyssey came. I wished to jump back after Frontier remedies things like ship interiors but even if they implement ship interiors, I will never return. Why? I despise companies lying to their customers.

[@barking_mad6649]

You don't have to buy one. I won't be.

[@zefnoly9147]

The lack of content updates, lackluster on foot aspects, lackluster ship functionality and immersivity, all led to me moving on to other games, like even frelling Star shitizen cought me up. And thousand different things to grind, some that even got softlocked (in terms of engineering) I am done with elite... And playing with friends isnt even that fun due to problems and lack of stuff to idle time with when you fly riding a friend.

[@xendakakorva3267]

Would suggesting Oolite as a replacement to scratch the Elite itch? It's based on the original Elite game and in my experience is alot of fun, and it supports mods

[@planexshifter]

But look how easy it will be to get back into the game now!

[@FeralKobold]

Please fdev just make the game open source and release it to the public and let us play offline

[@user-gm8wm1fz1b]

One caring and loving dev outweighs the entire frontier team, they just don’t care about elite anymore it’s been a downward spiral since Odyssey

[@sideparting6845]

Yes yes good idea give away all their work free good idea. Also can they give me a house and also can BMW and VW release all their designs and Porsche too and also can all the supermarkets give away their food free.

[@milanondrak5564]

@@sideparting6845 Sounds nice. They should sell it to a good games company that can fix it on all levels and turn it into a good game again that everyone can play and enjoy. It needs to be sold to a team with some imagination and creativity and a better idea of how to code.

[@animanera89]

​@@sideparting6845people like you are a stain on our species

[@nikelas6]

Keep dreaming lol. Fdev is stupid but this entitlement is even more retarded

[@mrpatate12345678]

After what was at the time (and still is now) 7k hours playtime, i quit Elite Dangerous at the release of Odyssey. I never looked back and was ever proven correct to have done so. I have good memories of my time in Elite, i quit at the correct time. I cared for that game way more then F-Dev ever did. What a waste of a fantastic game.

[@spacecowboy1438]

Same.

[@jrk41599]

Same

[@PapaSkyRooster]

U got to be fucking kidding me

[@Banzai51]

Basically, FDev just removed all incentives to fix their awful, soul-crushing engineering grind. Think about that before you defend it as not so bad.

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

They already said they’re changing it

[@MrDoggo23]

@@DUEL.FATALIS They said we would have ship interiors in the kickstarter. They also said we would have a proper offline mode. Guess where that went.

[@Banzai51]

@@DUEL.FATALIS And Star Citizen will launch.

[@DUEL.FATALIS]

@@MrDoggo23 okay?? lol

[@MrDoggo23]

@@DUEL.FATALIS Saying things is one thing. Doing them is what counts. FD doesn't have a great record of doing the latter.

[@jaredpilbeam6988]

I really hope Ross from Accursed Farms has success regarding keeping the Crew from being killed, because that would set precedence for finally getting offline mode for Elite Dangerous so I can enjoy it long after Fdev goes belly up.

[@TheYamiks]

YEEEEEPPPPPPP

[@MrDoggo23]

Absolutely.

[@breadpuff224]

only option may be to pirate the game so you truly own an offline copy which can't be shut down with the servers.

[@jaredpilbeam6988]

@@breadpuff224 T That's not how these games work. They're not coded to work that way, which is what make them especially pernicious. I highly recommend watching Accursed Farm's videos on the subject of live games and The Crew.

[@michaelfaulkner5516]

Never minding any of the snark and sarcasm and "hypercritical"-ness...that wistful sadness at the end of the video, of Yamiks' realizing he's lost his fondness for what used to be a fun game...that hit hard. It really did.

[@alanmichael5619]

Honestly - it's the main feeling for so many of us who used to player. There was so, so, so, so much potential in this game and Frontier have just created disappointment after disappointment for years.

[@leonardomiotti3181]

@@alanmichael5619 the game its very good right now, but stupid youtubers only see the bad things.

[@bozo6049]

Ohhh boy. I'm waiting for all the wallet warriors who can't afford re-buy, and lose their 60$ ship.

[@user-mv3qm4qh8l]

Omg I didn't even think about that🤣 I bet they also get ' insurance ' so rebuy is free

[@jimbobaggins2665]

Rebuy is free btw

[@bozo6049]

@@jimbobaggins2665 unless the buy/sell a module

[@wakizashiyoshikawa6926]

@@jimbobaggins2665 until you change the build, at that point its no longer zero rebuy

[@p0k314COM]

@@jimbobaggins2665 For now. And I'm sure of it. This is just the first step with tiny ships for beginners. They check the market. I bet that if this system works (zero chance, but who knows), they will seriously add options with large ships maxed out and then the insurance will be additionally paid, just like in SC.

[@donwald3436]

Well at least now we can be sure that "personal narrative" will never be fixed lol.

[@cmdrstevemcmaru7417]

Exactly, why not fix the ridiculous grind in ED instead of providing a skip to play by real money. Oh. FDEV, really?

[@mfoco1]

@@cmdrstevemcmaru7417 I'm guessing they've dug themselves a hole they can't escape. They've pissed off all the decent developers and designers who could not fix stupid in the board room.

[@Dushess]

as well as some gamebreaking bugs

[@Discovery2024-rn8kn]

ED is like Mcdonalds, you craved for it while away but once you're back taking your first bite, you feel disgusted, shame, revolt and wasted your money and time

[@randyohm3445]

my man the game is like 7 bucks, and you can experience the entire thing after paying that 7 bucks. Some skins and the option to skip a tiny bit of engineering for money does not mean it suddenly costs hundreds of dollars to play the game. Calm down.

[@DefaultMale_]

Next thing you know you'll be able to buy a "luck" booster to make engineering easier to do.

[@Cooldude-ko7ps]

Oh for fucks sake

[@mesfigas]

for fucks "sale"

[@phyll0medusa]

They had a chance to fix everything, but they chose greed P. S. Also, about "pay to skip". Some people claim that "uh, you can still grind and recieve these advantages, so it's not an actual pay to win". No, it is. It's not about time saving, but about having fun. For example, in recent Helldivers 2 we have premium warbonds, and you can find premium currency while playing. So is it pay to skip? No it's not, because while playing, I'm having fun. On the other hand it's Elite Dangerous grind. There's no fun in endlessly searching for materials. There's no fun in boring rocks for hours just to buy a new module that will allow you to bore rocks more efficiently. There was some fun in oneshoting thargoid Cyclopses, but even this quickly faded away. What I want to say is, any game that lets you skip boring parts with real-world money, is, in fact, pay to win. Because in any game, your final goal is to have fun

[@rednarok]

no, they are trying to stay afloat. you don't understand, they are just matching the market, prices change because everyone else has micro transactions. if they don't keep up they will burn out of existence. because they held for so long without alot of micro transactions is the opposite of greed. but in toddays market you have no choice.

[@acbthr3840]

@rednarok Right sure, you could make that argument, if odyssey hadnt just come out for money and if the game didnt cost money to buy

[@phyll0medusa]

​@@rednarokstay afloat you say? If more people would like their game, they would gain more money. These changes don't make more people like their game, but rather a complete opposite. They are risking to turn their 3000 people online into 300. If that means "staying afloat" - whatever. Just let the game die, just sell the franchise to someone who can actually care about it, instead of milking it

[@HiSodiumContent]

In order to stay competitive in this economy, we have to build an orphan grinding machine. All the other successful companies have orphan grinding machines. This won't affect our business practices going forward. However, we will shift our focus slightly to orphan acquisition and depending on the revenue generated by the orphan grinding machine, we may shift our focus to creating products which increase our orphan acquisition and adapt current products to better assist us in finding orphans to grind with the machine. This move is an absolute necessity, because even though we are currently fiscally solvent and profitable, if we don't generate further increased profits our shareholders would get sad. There's no other choice, we can't make the shareholders sad because our profits don't increase. The orphans fed to the machine are inconsequential in the face of shareholders receiving slightly less returns than they expect.

[@Zitronenmantel]

@@rednarok thats not true, mainly smartphone games are P2W, good pc games are never P2W

[@Minoseth]

At least the band played when the Titanic sunk...

[@ThundergodGeneral]

At this point just turn off the servers and give us an offline or private server mode let us mod the game into what it should have been.

[@martinmcadams3409]

ED has been dead for a long time and it’s all thanks to the incompetent frontier devs

[@rednarok]

ive been playing for the past 2 months and it still has a great community

[@LoneWolf0648]

@@rednarok I'm sure all 7 of you are nice people, but now I see this game in the same light as an EA or Ubisoft game (as a never buy, never recommended)

[@justpostedagain]

I'm not sure that's really true. The average player numbers are maybe half what they were 5-10 years go, but even that is a pretty impressive achievement.

[@Acavando]

ED is dead cause open play is garbage due to it being a trolling piss fest.

[@zeazevedo]

haters will hate...

[@Sashko_Dee]

If you think about it the verbiage PAY2SKIP is even worse than PAY2WIN. With the former you're basically admittting that the game is so loaded down with boring shit that there is a mechanism where you can pay to bypass it. You're literally branding your game as bad by default. So bad in fact that people will pay money NOT to play it.

[@Eugene32852]

Elite Dangerous is a game i could never forget. However, I will never go back to it either.

[@BlackStar250874]

Same here. I spent like four years with Elite. However, there were enough strange decisions even before Odyssey that made me wonder what the **** Braben is doing to his crown jewel. I so much tried to like it after Odyssey, but no. Frontier killed a great game, that I once loved.

[@ChadZLumenarcus]

Problems were introduced with Synthesis and Engineering. When Elite was play to earn credits and upgrade your ship, it was reasonable and fun. When it changed to engineering and synthesis, players now had to level up in a sense to unlock engineers, grind materials to fill their stores for refills and with Odyssey, work to grind and improve their suits and weapons just to play the game. All of these design choices were made to keep players playing a game so they had to work to play rather than play the game. So we're currently seeing pay to play here. The RPG design ruined Elite Dangerous for the worse, making it so people who buy the game then had to not just earn credits which was a good thing, but do all these other things to laterally level up, which was bad. Had Elite kept with the grade mechanic where everything has its pros and cons, and use cargo space as a resource for synthesis, and made suits and weapons upgradable like your ship with pro and con designs, we would have a great game where players would be playing the game, not working to play. Earning credits and buying build is great. Elite does need better inventory management system. People want to play Elite Dangerous. They don't want to work in it though. I wouldn't call what FDev is doing as pay to win, only pay to start playing due to skip bad game design the devs don't want to fix. Because no one talks about their love for the way engineers, suit upgrades and synthesis. They talk about flying, fighting, the Bacrkound Simulation, the Thargoid war, events between players. They talk about what makes the game great and gripe about what holds the game back especially for new players. Until those issues are resolved, Elite will continue to hold itself back.

[@Pecetos]

I dont expect this to be profitable. I think people that are left playing elite probably have everything there is to be had, who is this for ?

[@PsychopathicCake2]

Obviously this is for new players who will pay to win their way to an engineered ship, then they don’t have the slightest fucking clue of how to use what they just bought, they get their ass kicked and then they never play elite dangerous again. It’s like frontier is mugging you & runs off with your wallet.

[@MrDoggo23]

@@PsychopathicCake2 Tbf, there is barely anything to do with fully upgraded ships anyway. Thargoids shit is cool for a couple hours, then gets boring. bounty hunting remains the same except you can go in haz res. big whoop. Trading still suck. Mining has been utterly gutted since the last market rework. I will laugh at every sucker that buy this skip.

[@Pecetos]

​@@PsychopathicCake2 I wonder if they have enough new players to off set the implementation cost ; )

[@PsychopathicCake2]

@@Pecetos I highly doubt it. Elite Dangerous is going the way of the Dodo 🦤

[@sideparting6845]

This is for my brother who never bothers to engineer anything and gets battered all the time

[@soulproximity6259]

Man, I just want this game to be handled well. It's hands down the best VR space sim in my opinion, and i look at it so fondly. The grind may be mindnumbing, but man, I've never found another game that I can get truly lost and immersed into, like elite. I really hope they turn their act around, I want this game to be good so bad. Great video as always yamiks. Keep up the great work commander.

[@mfoco1]

FDev have had over a decade to turn their act around.

[@rafezetter8003]

Sorry buddy - after 10 years of development - its not ever going to be what you want unless somehow they release it as open source and braben wont ever let that happen - when Braben and Ian Bell made the original Elite Braben lied and cheated Bell out of money and franchise rights, then braben did it again a few years later to Chris sawyer another co-developer of a game, braben has a history of being a lying, narcissitic control freak cunt. Better to cut ties now and find another game.

[@vast634]

Elite: the old milk cow getting pumped dry before getting slaughtered. Classic farmer move.

[@Vixzenn]

I will admit my case is on the far end of spectrum, well outside the average player's experience. I have trigeminal neuralgia and Stage 3 Prostate cancer (I blame WoT, the number of times after a match I got told "Hope you get cancer"), the former really curbs my play time into small windows each day. The pain from that is devastating to say the least. The latter has definitely changed my view on something being a time sink. Playing games gives me a different type of mindful meditation against my medical issues. As such I have stopped playing a lot of games that have a heavy grind to them. Also I stopped playing games on hard level or higher. The time it was taking to get to the "meat" of the game was not as rewarding it was but now an obstacle. As I said my perspective has changed a little. Now from my old normal point of view.... No frack that take your P2W and jam it up your Krait !!!

[@banger191]

I haven't even watched an Elite Video for 18 months until I saw this title (Elite Dangerous goes PAY-2-WIN) How many levels of disappointment can one company achieve

[@spacecowboy1438]

Haven't played or watched videos sense the announcement not to bring odyssey to console. If I'm buying a PC for a space sim I'm getting Star Citizen and I'm gonna pay extra to spite the "ED is better" crowd. I guess they can't complain about SCs monitisation anymore, eh?

[@amigarulez]

@@spacecowboy1438 You really dont get differences between SC 'business' model and FD store optional feature?

[@kylecancilla5483]

Defenders of these types of shenanigans are champion goal post movers. Nothing EVER fits any definition of p2w when it comes to their pathological devotion to a game/company/dev.

[@cmdrsorrowful4823]

yeah but they shad0wban people from comment sections so it ends up with nothing but sicophants present, they also join every discord and stream under multiple accounts and probe everyone present to see who has logical faculties or not and then bully them out of the room if they do. speaking from much much experience with these types.

[@klaus6027]

But it's not pay to win. We've already lost just by showing up to the retirement home

[@user-ji7lb2bh5j]

They sell damn non-engineered A-rated Cheiftain (but g5 thrusters and g3 pPlant), and you call that pay-to-win? Are you blind, stupid? Both, maybe? This Cheiftain build is good for nothing piece of garbage and only real advantage is literaly 0 cr re-buy cost for hull and modules (which you will replace with something more practical). Pay-to-skip-gring-and-get-shitty-ship? Yes, da, naturlich, oui, si. Pay-to-win? Defenetly no, and you must be brain damaged crybaby to claim that.

[@Youda00008]

Just use the meaning of the english words and common sense lmao. The phrase "pay to win" clearly invites you to pay so that you win (against other players in some ingame activity), which is clearly not the case here. It's you who is twisting the definition to a meaning it was never supposed to have.

[@user-tw9gt9bk7w]

@@Youda00008​​⁠​⁠Be careful, you’re making too much sense here LMAO. The prebuilts are TERRIBLE. The “time save” is less than 2 hours of work. if the “advantage” is one player progressed ever so slightly faster than you, then ur end goal is purely speed running the game. Whos speed running elite dangerous? Nobody. It doesnt save you from any grind as you will have to do a LOT more to make these starter ships worth using. He hates P2W so much he wont even touch the game yet he plays star citizen which lets you buy ships for over a thousand dollars. Why did he ever start playing star citizen if that level of p2w is so against his moral code? I would say it’s thousands of times more egregious than what elite is doing. Yamiks is a complete hypocrite here, his pretend flabbergasting at the end of the video was utter cringeworthy. Oh and god forbid you disagree with his opinion, as evidently everything he says is iron-clad fact and cannot be challenged unless ur “intellectually dishonest” (despite the fact that he literally invents his own definitions and standards to judge what p2w even means to him… LOL)

[@flankspeed007]

Typical: "Hey I've got a great idea to milk more money out of players of this game we abandoned!" "Will it be hard to code?" "No it will be Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience!"

[@robertjames4908]

The grind will be made tougher now by the devs to persuade players into paying, bad idea all round.

[@Youda00008]

Part of the anouncement was that they will be reducing the number of materials needed for upgrades or increasing the material spawns.

[@mangelo1901]

i think this might be a last minute cash grab before they turn off the servers, unless it is profitable enough and then they will just keep expanding the monetisation system

[@dinkmartini3236]

I'll put money on this one, please.

[@mfoco1]

Indeed. ED went on life-support the day FDev started breaking Kickstarter promises, because those promises were fundamental to ED's chances of success in the first place. Nobody backed a kickstarter project that would depend upon servers with no sustainable cash-flow.

[@Jmanfuego]

Frontier. Need I say more? I give up. Time to find another space sim. If one that’s better even exists…

[@JohnImrie]

Have a look at starship simulator

[@explodingacorn2118]

Depending on what you enjoyed in Elite I've found X4 Foundations has covered the combat and trading itch. Exploration would be it's weakest point.

[@siett1335]

No mans sky offers way more

[@JerrodAmolyan]

@@siett1335 I wish the flight model wasn't so... disgustingly simple.

[@siett1335]

@@JerrodAmolyan fair point

[@mikiroony]

What a wonderful world in which Yamiks and Obsidian Ant come together in calling it like it is!

[@npc6254]

Elite Dangerous had nothing but great potential in its future upon release; it was excellent soil to grow something truly grand, possibly one of the best online space sims out there…. And frontier really took all that potential and shat on it. Mind blowing.

[@mfoco1]

Not only great potential, but great promises. If only Kickstarter backers had been told the truth from the outset.

[@Treehead667]

KIckstarter backers and basically the whole internet in 2015: "Such an amazing game! It will sell like sliced bread and will end up being a cash cow earning you millions. It should be impossible to fuck this one up!" David Braben: "Hold my beer..."

[@danielsayles3523]

Make all the new paid ships a kill on sight in online play!

[@SodaReal.]

I'm getting star citizen.

[@Yeehim]

One of the best definition of pay 2 win I heard that I agree with is "anything that provides the paying player with a superior gameplay experience over the non-paying player"

[@Youda00008]

That's a terrible definition. Where is the "winning" in that definition". This would better be described as "pay 2 have fun" which is still a bad practice but not so morally corrupt as the "pay 2 win".

[@Matthias129]

@@Youda00008 Gameplay experience doesn't have to directly tie into fun. The older (and probably newer, I don't know as I haven't played one in years) F2P MMOs would have a limited bank size, of say 5 slots, for free players vs the 10, 20, 30, etc. bank slots for someone who paid. The free player has to make more, and potentially harder, decisions on what to keep whether it be gear they can use later on, gear to be sold, crafting/reputation/whatever materials, etc. The paid player can keep most or all of that, meaning they don't have to stop playing to make those decisions _and_ get the benefit of keeping all those items (money from sold items, not reacquiring the useful gear or crafting materials) and thus they have said superior gameplay experience. The side effect of said superior experience is that the paid player will also have more "fun" by directly engaging with gameplay systems instead of engaging with the limitations a free player must do. This part is subjective, so each person's definition will vary slightly, showcased here by you and Yeehim, but in a game where you don't directly "win" by defeating an opponent or getting a higher score, or what have you, I think it's fairly easy to agree that "winning" could be used to mean someone who gets to engage actual gameplay than engaging secondary systems. I'll be slightly pedantic here and pull in a dictionary definition of win; "to be successful or victorious", but even more so, "to get possession of by effort or fortune." Looking at those, let's tie it into Elite Dangerous. Who do you think is "winning" (by dint of succeeding to play the game more, or possesses by effort or fortunate the ability to play more) in this scenario: Player A and Player B are new to the game decide they want to go Thargoid hunting. Player A, who purchased the AX Hunter Bundle with pre-engineered models and Guardian weapons? Or Player B, who still needs to unlock the Guardian weapons, still needs the reputation with the Alliance to get the ship, and may or may not still need the credits to even buy all the weapons and modules? One of those players "wins" by being able to directly engage with a primary gameplay system (combat, particularly Thargoid combat), while another is stuck engaging with secondary systems (currency, reputation, etc.) before being able to interact with the primary one. I think it boils down to the waters being muddied with what P2W really means in a post-loot box and cosmetic and MTX world. The same thing has happened to genre terms like Souls-like, roguelike, metroidvania, even RPG to a certain extent. Blending the staples of those genres in differing amounts has made it so that genre isn't really applicable anymore in the traditional sense of referring to a _particular_ style and become more of a spectrum. So, pay-to-win, pay-to-skip, pay-to-whatever I think all fall under the same umbrella labelled with the same catchall, P2W. (Tangential, but kinda like all hook and loop enclosures are called Velcro and facial tissues Kleenex even though those are specific brands) Feel free to hit me with the nerd, clown, or skull emoji for the multi paragraph response. I've always been too verbose for my own good, but when I try to pare down what I say I end up just coming across as an asshole trying to sum up multiple points in a sentence or two.

[@agonyaunt6325]

*Straps in for a Yamiks rant* 🤣 EDIT: wow, that was a dark ending.

[@richardhockey8442]

only played Elite Dangerous twice in the past 15 months or so, and can't remember the last time I saw another player in 'open'. Currently parked in Colonia region

[@JohnImrie]

The last player I saw in open took my ship apart in Sol 😢

[@Derkiboi]

​@@JohnImriespace copper

[@edvordo]

I was in colonia about 6-7 months ago and I stumbled into a player or players every few systems I went to .. same goes for bubble past 2 and half years, I meet people in open every few systems and that's including in sytems outside of thargoid war / titan / community goal / popular systems ..

[@MrDoggo23]

You would see more people in open if pvp was off by default. Campers and trolls ruin the fun.

[@PapaSkyRooster]

I quit

[@sideparting6845]

Why? Just don't buy the ship and do the "grind" that everyone loves complaining about.... Oh wait Frontier have given a way to avoid the "grind" and everybody is complaining about that too..... They can never win

[@bealotcoolerifyoudid7217]

Maybe 'design the game in a better way' would help. 😂😂😂huh? ​@@sideparting6845

[@somethingawesome5316]

@@sideparting6845 Looks like you've totally missed the point of the video. You're accepting a predatory practice that puts another nail in ED's coffin.

[@sideparting6845]

@@somethingawesome5316 Increased income KILLS a game?? How does that make sense?

[@somethingawesome5316]

@@sideparting6845 Increased *greed* kills games, yes. They were already selling cosmetics for money as well as other products. If that's not enough, and they go for such scummy practices, that'll only lead to ruin.

[@TinchoX]

How sad it is to see one of my most cherished games of all times is getting the pay-to-win treatment... And back then I thought *Frontier* didn't care about their playerbase when they nerfed mining and stuff, but now?? Now they've dug themselves even deeper, doubling down on their rampant greed, how sad this is to see. Greed is destroying games, specially online games. 15:55 Reminds me of Gaijin, similar statement to this one, they said they would not put high Battle Rating vehicles on sale for real money and make the game pay-to-win. Oh how the turntables... 16:23 Looks like the company is already on life-support, *GOOD* , they deserve it.

[@LordRenegrade]

Can we PAY2SKIP to skip past FDev making bad decisions?

[@PerJessenSchmidt]

Uhhhhh, now the constant grind mechanism they have added instead of new content makes sense,. Think the game sucks? Well here you go, just pay instead. 🤷🏼

[@Tooterbooter]

From what I’ve seen of the current “Pre-Built” ships are absolutely terrible. Some of the builds make absolutely no sense. Look at the AX chieftain for example: It runs hot, and the whole point of ax builds is to run cold It has an unengineered beam laser, and the only reason beam lasers are included in ax builds are for the thermal vent experimental effect to run cold It has a research limpet controller and no corrosive cargo racks… Cargo you get from research limpets is corrosive… and there are no corrosive resistant cargo racks……… Like the only redeeming quality of the ships are the engineered thrusters. Let’s look at the mining ship. It has an engineered mining laser from a permit system… A mining laser… that ultimately performs the same as an unengineered one… It doesn’t even have a detailed surface scanner which you NEED in order to see where valuable asteroids are found… On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being just downloaded the game and 10 being a fully max-grinded end game ship, These pre-builts are like a 2.5, maybe 3.

[@josuesleyer]

The worst part is that I don't see it as the company's fault! but of the player who accepts this! and pay!

[@bricejohnson6438]

Can anyone tell me where the footage from 9:45 was taken? Never seen anything like that.

[@captaineric501]

selling Anxiety and FOMO

[@occuda]

P2W is the final throw of a dying game.

[@DynoSkrimisher]

The guy who developed Elite must be turning in his grave

[@wbeytel]

He, David Braben, literally started Frontier and he is still there. There is no way that he wasn't complicit in deciding on this abomination.

[@mfoco1]

I don't think Ian Bell really cares. As President of FDev, David Braben would have been fundamental in deciding how to extract more cash without paying for quality people to fix his lies.

[@SkYsLiDeR9000]

Purchased ships! With interiors you can interact with!... Oops, my bad. Wrong game.

[@leagooo3891]

I dont like the pay 2 win addition. I would honestly not have cared about the python mk2 "Pay for pre-release" but buying upgraded ships is just stupid.

[@neonspark707]

Lmao. The heliaxxs of elite are coping hard today after years of trashing the other game for this. It is almost too good to be true. Love it.

[@guard13007]

I think this is one of the best videos you've ever made. It's clear, succinct, to the point, and expressive. The only complaint I could think to make is to put earlier in the video the part about how any form of pay to win requires making the base game worse to make spending more appealing.

[@OldManPaxusYT]

The way my brother Yamiks looked like he was going to cry at the end, is how i have always felt about E.D, in general.... In Elite, we have always had this INCREDIBLY *AMAZING* 'potential'!..... *_teasing_* us, with what it _could be..._

[@vilhelmschmit9300]

This might be your best video yet. I feel your pain. It's just the way the world is now. It's not just video games. the whole world is circling the drain. Pay to win is not what video games are supposed to be. What is the point of even playing anymore if you can just swipe a card and win? When jagofs ask for gold in other MMOs I play, I just ask them for their password and tell them I'll earn their gold for them, or ask "how much do you need" and immediately ignore them. The whole world is in a sad entitled state ATM. It's pathetic. "The only winning move is not to play"....my favorite line spoken by the WOPR.

[@rumdog117]

Being a console player, it was clear elite was going down when they kicked us to the curb after they had taken out money buying the game. The best thing that could happen to Elite would be for some company like Microsoft or Sony to buy it and have people who actually care about the game, to develop it more and come up with a new plan. The one they have now is just a slow death. Sony could certainly use a space game of it's own. This looks like it would be an amazing game in VR. Both of those companies are pushing that, all be it in different ways.

[@alabast3781]

I used to love to fly in ED in my VR rig, what games would people recommend that captures the same experience? So far I've found none that is close enough to ED w/o the bad business direction.

[@Youda00008]

Same. People recommend all kinds of alternatives, but honestly, they don't provide the same experience from piloting your ship as Elite does. And a game company without bad business decisions, i'm not sure such thing even exists. I can't remember any company that would listen at least to what players write on their official forum.

[@FlameSoulis]

Here is one thing that was missed: In Star Citizen, as of now, a purchased ship (which many can be grinded for without IRL payments) will remain with you at all times until insurance is applied. In Elite, what prevents a pre-built ship from being lost due to flying without rebuy? If the ship is made to be valued at 0 credits, thus a 0 CR rebuy, then that's pretty evil in that it pushes people to NOT buy in-game ships they could potentially lose. Even SC hasn't done this... Even $1000 yaht Star Citizen has not done this...

[@vecnejhipik5349]

Elite is incredible. When it released it was such a good base game. Then they failed to improve the game at least a little bit. Every addition just brought more fucking grind. Fuck them but guess what you can pay to skip that :D. What is even point of playing the game when the whole content is just grind and now you can skip it :D that is fucking stupid lol.

[@jamesdinius7769]

Pay to win is when money can be used to EITHER get access to tools that those who don't pay can't, or to bypass the grind to get access. Elite is doing both. The Python II (and Engineering prior to Horizons becoming base game) are the former, pre built ships are the latter. I think most of us agree that giving a jumpstart to Kickstarters isn't quite the same. Yes, it's pay to win, but it was early, done specifically to get the game off the ground, and it was a relatively small one time bonus that could be matched fairly easily. The long term impact was negligible.

[@CMDR_B0B]

Unfortunately, I am seriously considering composing my... "So Long & Thanks for all the Fish" post to our Elite & Dangerous Galaxy after this decision. After all, their is a reason I chose to be a 34th century SnakeShip Salesman and not a 21st century NFT/Eifel Tower/e-coin Salesman [see pre equipped soul for details]. P2W is *Not* the Keelbacking Way. Have Fun&Ram Stations Dangerous(ly) -Lakon Marketing Division, Keelback Office -'Only ship in the Galaxy to come equipped with a soul 😇'

[@tempestblack2771]

My Anaconda is gunna be busy hunting the Python mkII's before the "official" launch.

[@Starbolt-81]

The fall of ED is complete

[@netshaman9918]

This is the end , rip...

[@Drakersen]

Is it bad that I considered it if it meant I was able to skip the horrible engineering system? But then it would be rewarding them for bad game designs. I completely gave up on this game even though no other game has been able to fill the void

[@foodomanthemagnificent2650]

Check out X4. Not quite as immersive, but a wider scope

[@SusannaSaunders]

One last lap of the toilet bowl before oblivion....

[@keefer3826]

The general idea of this model has worked for DE's Warframe. Perhaps it would help if it was viewed the way it is in that game. We don't all have the luxury of hours and hours of game play and grind to get the good stuff. If you want to pay to skip it why shouldn't you rather than be excluded? Additional it's only paying customers that will keep the game alive.

[@ravenvalentine4919]

yea i just uninstalled the game, seriously when i saw that i just gave up on the game, it was a good run

[@MetitoRegusa8X]

,,How to kill your game,,

[@GrapciooPL]

What does icons means under your logo?

[@Papai_Pai]

I used to play this game all the time before they basically betrayed the the PlayStation player base

[@cogu7137]

just when i got back to playing Elite, they remember me why i left in the first place

[@TMHedgehog]

By your definitions, Warframe falls under pay to win, however with Warframe I'm far more willing to accept that since it feels like the game actually respects my time playing it, and I usually would rather play the game rather than pay for the latest thing because it's more fun that way. If you need a thing, you go to a specific spot and play a specific gamemode, and then you get that thing. Elite meanwhile doesn't, engineering is especially a pain in the arse, I remember raiding an outpost over and over again hoping that they'd eventually have the cat pictures the engineer wanted. - RNG just used to pad gameplay instead of to vary rewards.

[@MacMuirTravis]

Wow. That ending, seeing someone who while critical about the game, clearly loved it, and in the end watching that love die. That hits hard, and similar to how I feel.

[@ArztvomDienst]

From a sh1t-ton of milkin-da-cashcow options, this was probably one of the most fckedup path to choose. If base building is the new feature, it will cost ARX. Just these amped up ships alone are a total destroyer of the veteran player base. What a sh1tshow.

[@joetuktyyuktuk8635]

I see everything new costing ARX now... it will become the core focus of devs now.

[@ShinigamiAnger]

This is bad, plain and simple. Making credits, buying new ships, upgrading them, unlocking engineers, engineer every module, it is all part of the game. The grind is brutal, true, but Elite needed some tweaks and balances, certainly not this. Yet most people are accepting it happily (and happily throwing money away to get 3 weeks early access for a new ship, after years of being abandoned by the same devs). Even some mechanics needs to be revisited, like becoming an Admiral or King by just being a delivery guy, makes no sense. It should be achieved via an epic mission arc, where you go through a story and some challenges, in order to both give it a meaning and also as a state of accomplishment. People seeing you in a cutter or a corvette should know that you have actually made it through those challenges. There is so much that could be improved and added in this game, yet they say “hey you can pay to cut corners” and people are accepting it, insanity. I see also two risks here: 1. This is just the first step 2. Every way of making credits will be eventually nerfed Anyway, I think those people buying stuff in the shop are genuinely going to ruin the experience for themselves, while also risking to burnout faster. tl;dr The game needs actual improvements and balance, not “pay-to-whatever” mechanics.

[@UkDave3856]

I was quit on ED when I started watching this, and I’m even more quit now

[@AIC5150]

Respect the grind for the Cutter and Corvette

[@ColonelHess]

Speaking as a Star Citizen player, I have to agree that an issue with selling ships that you can get in game is that the company is then going to make it harder to get them, so you will buy them instead. In fact, I hear Star Citizen just increased the price of in-game ships a lot, and anyone who is against it is being shouted down, seems to me the process is already beginning.

[@henchwelshgooch1020]

WTF r.i.p ED

[@nabilchaouli3489]

I abandoned elite after the betrayal of console players and going back on the promise of ship interior Plus the shit show called oddest E, the awful FPS no asked for. the game is dying and this is a desperate attempt at grabbing as much as possible before pulling the plug. What a shame

[@Youda00008]

People have been saying the same about War Thunder in 2018 when they added tier 5 premium jets. Somehow this business model works and the game is still very alive.

[@hybrid9mm]

Shtiforcation at work. I wonder when the tier system will be introduced. T1 grind, T2 robots to grind for you, T3 no effort required game plays itself.

[@kaibrunnis8785]

Yamiks, you have been one of my favorite people over the last 8 years. Even when I wasn't playing ED because of FRAUDyssey I still faithfully watched your videos for the godlike humor but most importantly, you were the voice of reason in a sea of sycophantic suckups. I came back to ED and your voice is even more relevant as ever. But to hear you at 19:30 saying everything I had running in my head after the info release today, this last 2 minutes of this video needs to be the viral tag for this latest Fdev FUCKERY and the basis of the epitaph of FRAUDyssey 2.0 with everything before and after. For all the content creators of Elite Dangerous, you are the best because you are truly a man of the people.

[@Pa1ad1no]

It started to go down with engineering

[@TheLimitless33]

Frontier you done @#$%&* it up!!

[@LoneWolf0648]

Again... and again... and again...

[@Thrawn655]

ok, two observations: 1.) grinding for better ships and fully engineering them is the only game mechanic ED has. So allowing you to skip it- what are you left with? You want to explore? You can do that with any ship? Will exploring gameplay get more rewarding with a "bigger better ship"? No! If you like the game mechanic of trading- go ahead and trade with any trade vessel, mining same thing? What gets better with better ships and equipment? you make more in game credit to buy yourself bigger ships with better equipment. If you buy yourself a fully engineered ship for any trade (so called gameplay loop) you trade for an hour, you fight for an hour and explore and mine for an hour and say: "ok been there done that- nothing interesting to do- uninstall". So this is a truly hilarious turn of events 2.) Apparently Frontier thinks that this is what their player base wants and is willing to pay for. Two possibilities: - They are wrong (which makes them idiotic morons and encourages me even more to never ever touch this game) - They are right (the majority of the Elite community always wanted to skip the game rather than playing it) Either way, I'm out

[@RMMinc]

Disagree about grind a little bit. For example ED combat is quite fun and i would gladly log in occasionally to just shoot stuff and practice flying skills. Like a lot of people do with Ace combat/PW games. Except without engineering you locked to only a couple of guns and there is like only 3 or 4 that are viable for PvE. I would spend way more time in this game if developers actually allowed me to enjoy gameplay. But instead they decided to hide everything behind soulcrushing grind wall. And the funniest thing is: even selling pre built ships doesn't fix it. You give greedy company money for allowing you to use 1(one) new gun and that's it.

[@Youda00008]

For any kind of combat you pretty much need an engineered ship and for the exploration too (lightweight modifications) otherwise you will spend ridiculous time traveling.

[@Cheranetube]

I was always surprised that Elite didn't use a small monthly fee to help fund further development. Heck, World of Warcraft has a brutal payment scheme that has been successfully going on for years (but if your whole family wants to play the monthly fees are crazy). I'm not saying a monthly fee is a good idea, but I much prefer it to Pay-to-win. Lots of problems to deal with.

[@CaptainSovereign]

What the frak?

[@aggressiveclingysatsuma1664]

How's is this better is already destroyed

[@N0DR0G]

I’d really love a single player option so I don’t have to worry about the servers shutting down. There is still so much I haven’t seen and so much space left to explore.

[@w33b3l]

Will it bypass standing requirements?

[@WwZa7]

Translation - It comes out in May as pay2win with 3 months expiration date. Also you can pay deffinitely-not-chash for whole ships and modules now.

[@Luk3sV4t3r]

Finally I can stop buying useless skins to support the devs with money and buy something with real ingame value instead!

[@Paul_nutfrom80s]

what's the point of doing the mining hauling bounty job even the pirating after buying the top ship armor weapons engineering upfront?

[@PrometheanGOld4]

Man how are ships designed to be an inside look into a specific profession Pay To Win? The fuck? They aren’t G5’d to the max.

[@Squidgy55]

It isn't p2w. These people are stupid.

[@alexhobbs1208]

​@@Squidgy55 funny how you seem to glaze this P2W and deride star citizen. You're a hypocrite

[@Squidgy55]

@@alexhobbs1208 I didn't say Star Citizen was p2w. I only ever commented on the actual cost of the in-game items.