My response to 'Taking 4K Blu-rays Too Seriously'

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks for watching and let me know your thoughts on the topic!

[@JoshHare85]

Great video Elliot! Do you know when the James Cameron trio are releasing in the UK? I’m in Australia and have bought them through Amazon UK True Lies say mid April Aliens says mid May The Abyss I’ve had to buy from a different retailer (Sanity) based in Australia that is importing it Thanks 👍

[@chrisburns7979]

@@JoshHare85 The Abyss is not being released in the uk due to cameron not wanting to make cuts

[@marcusbritt2896]

For me, I think it’s important we’re picky with our 4k presentations, because chances are, these are the last versions of these films we’ll ever get on home media, and it’s a sadness that a format so capable of presenting the film with near-perfect accuracy is being marred by trends in digital alteration. We’re talking about art here, and access to art, and I think it’s vital that the art is presented to us as authentically and accurately as possible

[@ElliotCoen]

I agree with you but it's a tricky topic, especially when the filmmakers themselves are involved with restorations. We've seen a lot of colour changing, DNR, etc., to many restorations over the years but voting with our wallets will never be enough, because the discs still sell regardless of any coverage in our small corner of KZbin

[@Chrisratata]

There's a difference between healthy criticism and unhealthy obsession. He never said he wasn't going to point out apparent flaws, he simply said that the movie itself is priority one. PQ is nonetheless important just not worth outrage levels of time and stress.

[@Chrisratata]

@@miz4535 not disingenuous at all. With any buying decision for any product, there's more than one priority someone weighs. PQ is important, but different people have different thresholds at which certain imperfections become a dealbreaker... weighed against multiple criteria. PQ is high on the list of priorities for movies, the movie just happens to be higher priority for many people...especially if it's a fave.

[@Chrisratata]

@@miz4535 woosh

[@jamied1579]

@@miz4535 See, that's part of the problem - many other people loved Aliens 4k - I think it's never looked better, it looks amazing. If you don't like it, that's just too bad. Cinema and 4k tvs are two completely different mediums, home 4k releases should reflect that. What looks good in a theatre doesn't always translate well to a 4k or 8k tv. simple.

[@jonathans9427]

I’m just a guy on a budget. When 4Ks are 2x / 3x the price of the Blu-ray, I really just want to know if the 4K is - A) Basically the same as the Blu-ray B) Noticeably better C) Actually worse The discussion becomes more nuanced when you have multiple 4K releases of the same film by different companies. I’m trying to be a smart consumer. I rely on video reviews to help me make smart choices.

[@lanceheaps581]

Same man especially if I already own the Blu Ray. Like say Patton one of my favorite movies comes out on 4K is it worth the upgrade using my hard earned money.

[@markwilliams5792]

Depends on the Movie itself and how it’s ungraded I have both formats on most and barely notice a difference other than brightness and scrubbing But I also use a 4k player that upgrades the blu ray picture Personally I don’t think paying double the price is worth it I wait till the 4k goes on sale and grab it

[@bowserjjumetroid3645]

Other things you can do is look for screenshot comparisons. Some people on KZbin and some people on websites do a better job than others. A good website is _caps-a-holic_ and excellent videos are made by _HD-Numerique_ who also have their own website, in French -- For this I use Google Translate, and it does a fair-enough job.

[@triplejazzmusicisall1883]

​@@markwilliams5792 I think that is a good idea. I am no expert but have spoken to others who are and there is so much to think about I just can't be bothered with the whole 4K situation. Things to consider: The size of your T.V, the distance you view the screen from, the quality of your own physical eyesight, whether you want a massive screen dominating a room in your house, the transfer quality etc... Apparently, audio can be far superior in quality so if music matters to you then maybe it's the way. 8k is not even discernible to the human eye unless we start getting cinema screens in our houses. Personally, because people can never hold back I believe most homes of the future will have a cinema room so large as to hold a massive screen and seating where one can tell the difference. For me that is going off into lunatic land and is stretching our obsessive love for screen culture to scary extremes. It also will bring the death of the cinema complex eventually. There also is un underlying ideology that the technical best is always going to equate with a more pleasurable viewing experience but WHY. Like some old black and white images, I love the warmth of them, even polaroids have some kind of artistic merit if you are inclined for nostalgia or the instant moment. Technology does not necessarily equate with greater enjoyment. It really requires the individual to think thoroughly about this as so often the result is the throw away society which continues to get worse day by day. And on that note, I wish to emphasise this is just my opinion. Weighing all factors there is no definitive wrong or right. My own family think I am a luddite and I in turn think they are all screen obsessed and have lost the ability to socialise in person. Life is becoming markedly more complicated.

[@byron19800]

This is just a personal opinion and how I perceived Jeff's video. First of all, it's quite clear to me that Jeff's video was triggered by the negative response for Cameron's movies in 4k. And this seems a bit odd to me. Why now? Is it just about the community's negative reaction or just an attempt to water down the criticism of those transfers, by somewhat pointing the finger towards the negative feedback? When Terminator 2 arrived on 4k, I remember it being universally destroyed by all the reviewers on KZbin. I didn't see one reviewer telling us that we shouldn't take the 4k format too seriously. Now, it's quite obvious to me that all three transfers in question are at least problematic, especially in the video department. So, they are nowhere near the decent restorations most of us were expecting. In fact, I really doubt Cameron himself cared too much; for instance, one youtuber measured both the 4k and the standard blu-ray of Aliens and came to the conclusion that the former is just an upscale of the latter. So, no restoration of the original negative, no new transfer whatsoever. Just a quick, AI sharpness enhancement and grain scrubbing. I'm convinced the same applies to the other two transfers, True Lies being the worst offender. So, it's not about over analyzing every pixel on the screen here; it's about the rule of diminishing returns. 4k discs are expensive and many of us expect more than a "decent" transfer for such beloved titles.

[@anthonytitone]

The reason it’s now is because he rebranded recently & he’s reaching out to a general movie going audience & bringing people from his tik tok account.

[@NovaFeedback1979]

4Ks are not expensive if you wait for the deals. I only buy Criterion or Shout UHD titles when there are flash sales. Same with Arrow. Or the B&N sales. Just shop smartly. Collecting anything will get "expensive" after a while.

[@IncognitoChild]

​@@NovaFeedback1979- I'm guessing your state side, where there are more opportunities (choice) for where you buy your discs from? In the UK all the high Street retailers are gone now, apart from HMV. The alternatives being Amazon and Zavvi (possibly the worst customer service I've ever come across)

[@Jumpman67]

I agree that it was definitely a response to his recent Cameron video. I also think these recent releases are nowhere near as bad as T2. I also think the response to T2 was overblown. I just don't see the negatives that Jeff was talking about in these recent releases. Are they perfect? No but they are pretty damn good looking movies on 4k. I think that's part of why people watching these videos are in the camp of "ok, relax". There are different levels to how good each transfer is. To me, these are in the B+ to A- range.

[@byron19800]

@@Jumpman67 , it depends on what someone considers to be a quality transfer. For me, at least True Lies and Aliens are far from being quality transfers. They could have been so much better, without the savage use of digital crap. I'm sorry, but when compared to a really beautiful (and true) 4k restoration, these discs fail miserably. It's like comparing a real person with his/her copy in a wax museum.

[@JWickyJr13]

Too seriously?? We're spending how much on equipment and James Cameron can't be messed with to make a decent 4k version of his films. Naw, that's disappointing for all of us collectors. I will fight to the bitter end for physical media because I've found some streaming options to be less superior - specifically with sound and things like Dolby vision.

[@loftlegacy]

It’s personal choice, especially about film grain, but I’m bit buying the new Cameron releases as I’m not keen on DNR, so I’ll pass.

[@ElliotCoen]

I do wonder what James Cameron makes of all the backlash, if he’s even aware of it. I’d like to think when T2 got the 4K and it was terrible that some intern might have passed him a memo!

[@reyluna9332]

Cameron dropped the ball to save a few bucks.

[@breadordecide]

I was personally blown away by the aliens 4k.

[@dewshbag16]

@@ElliotCoen I hope this happened and I hope that he listened. However, unfortunately, it seems like wishful thinking

[@NmDPlm31]

I certainly don’t take it as seriously as the Professional Home Theater Brigade does, but I also want a film to be a proper restoration and preservation. I patently disagree with Jeff’s statement that if it’s out on 4K then it already amazing because now it is the best it will ever be and it’s better than every old version and we should just be thankful. Well, no. No it’s not. Sometimes a transfer is just dog crap, slathered with DNR that is horrible. And then you have the Lucases and Camerons of the world who talk out both sides of their mouths - from one professing their love and passion for film preservation, and from the other bellowing that they can change whatever they want to their films whenever they want, preservation be damned.

[@Johnboy2k7]

It’s their films and their artistic vision. It doesn’t belong to us. The artist gets say in how their art is presented.

[@notesscrotes4360]

@@Johnboy2k7One, the directors aren’t the sole creative power behind a movie. Two, them having a vision is fine, but it doesn’t give them the right to retcon the past away.

[@Johnboy2k7]

@@notesscrotes4360 It is up to them and the studio. If they paid for it, they absolutely get that right.

[@Chrisratata]

He didn’t say all 4Ks are amazing, he said that most of the time they are

[@NmDPlm31]

​​@@Chrisratata You didn't listen to Jeff close enough then. He said 4ks are better than any other format. He even said Planes Trains and Automobiles, which is dog shit atrocious, is better than it's ever looked on any other format. No. No it's not. And Termintor 2 and Pirates of the Caribbean aren't better than any other format either. Which he says they are. He says they're the 2 or 3 discs all time on the format that are bad, and still worth buying because they're better than the Blu. No. I agree when we're talking about grading pixels frame by frame. That can be too serious for a mostly casual viewer base just looking for a great image and sound. Making a statement that even if it's a bad 4k it's still better than any previous release just isn't true. And when you factor in releases where directors are changing their films -- when we're talking of viewers who want a film preserved in its unedited form in its best possible format, that also can be a detriment and make it not the best version. But that's tossed out the window with his 99.9% of 4ks are better than any other format so just buy and shut up and be happy. Without honest assessment and pushback we will continue to be fed bastardized reimagining and sometimes just horrible DNR messes. EDIT: Yes, from a purely mathematical technical standpoint you're right. He didn't say all 4ks. He said 99.9% of them.

[@scott336]

Unlike Jeff, thanks Elliot for not poo-pooing those of us who actually do care about the 4K quality and the tech specs like bit rates & nit values. When I see a 4K that’s not up to the quality of other 4Ks, the bit rates & nits are typically lower. With 4K prices quickly rising, when I’m considering a blind buy or catalog release, reviewer’s tech specs help me decide whether to take the plunge. Even a lower quality movie is still a great watch if the disc is of high quality (see Vinegar Syndrome). Jeff does not understand that and hates me for caring about how I spend my money and for wanting releases that aren’t half-assed or revisionist. Thank you for your channel and not bait-and-switching us. I appreciate your passion and recommendations and the time and effort you put into this channel for this great community.

[@wclark3196]

Jeff's over 100k subs and is a promotion whore, so he's got some dough and he gets sent stuff for free as well. When you have to work for your money, you want to get value when you drop $30-$60 on a 4K. He's forgotten that.

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks for the kind words about me, Scott! I have no problem with what people want to do with their own hobby/interest. If they want to get deeply technical with it, absolutely fine by me.

[@supertrexandroidx]

I think you're overstating Jeff's position somewhat, I watched the same video and didn't interpret it as him just "poo-pooing" those who care about the video quality. My main take away from it was just that he personally doesn't want to focus so much on that and wants to focus more on the movies themselves, which is his prerogative. Some people seem to take that as some kind of personal affront, which implies to me that they might be way too emotionally invested in his opinions. I seriously doubt he "hates" you for caring about how you spend your money, if he has any opinion about you at all - and if he has expressed some kind of personal feelings about you I would bet it had something to do with how you expressed your own personal opinions to him.

[@BUKUDI]

Really? He "hates" you? Does he even know you exist? Lmao God the dramaqueens

[@Van_Scott]

I think with everything there is a balance to be had. I think most of us would agree that the preservation of films and the way they originally looked and sounded is important. I get the feeling some KZbinrs don’t want to be negative about releases and would rather just be grateful that we are getting physical releases period. They don’t want to be “toxic” and don’t want to bite the hand that feeds. Just what I’m seeing. And again, I think there is a balance to be had. Some things are definitely subjective. However, I do feel strongly that if a film is changed in any way from the original presentation, it should be made known and the original presentation should be preserved, and included with the revised version if possible.

[@GooglesTrowels]

Here’s the thing. If I am looking for a 4k review I do expect someone who can give me a decent answer as to whether it’s worth the upgrade. I subscribe to several different people to hopefully find multiple viewpoints. I do enjoy Elliot’s film reviews and recommendations as we have similar eclectic tastes, but if some of these other “it’s just about the movies now” guys really cut disc quality reviews I don’t know what they offer me. Jeff is never going to review a movie I haven’t seen unless I already don’t care about it. I’ll stick with the Crusader and his ilk, as I do think it’s worth it to be passionate about our passions.

[@nabilleal2315]

"Damn fool idealistic crusader" put everyone in the youtube reviewer community on notice, then jeff and all the other reviewers had to respond 😂😂😂 i wanna see what daisuke says lol

[@ElliotCoen]

I've been watching his videos since the early laserdisc days! I appreciate the lengths he goes to for his vids

[@danielthegeek4582]

Sorry, not following? I’ve seen Jeff’s video, but not sure who the “crusader” is?

[@nabilleal2315]

@@ElliotCoen Dude and your videos are great, too. Especially because of their use of narrow depth of field, which punctuates the overall focus of the video. Theyre also to the point. I also like Daisuke, but the pacing and length of his videos can make them a bit hard to get through (for my taste). I like Crusader's deep dives and how focused he is as well, and how he gives his videos chapters.

[@444chroma]

DFIC deserves 10x as many subs as FAH. Water finds its level though and there's a shit ton of normies out there

[@zenquantum1246]

@@miz4535​​⁠anyone with a channel that has over 100k followers is going to “be a laughingstock” in online communities. That’s the nature of putting your opinion up in public. People **will** absolutely disagree and dislike your options and lambast you when you make a mistake. However, even in the digital age, we are all still "the three blind men and the elephant”. No one has the complete picture. It’s great that there are fans and channels dedicated to the technical proficiency of 4Ks. Just don’t expect that it’s going to be what every movie fan is focused on

[@jaywilliamson777]

TBH I don't really care for Jeff. KZbinrs like MovieGuy365 TheOriginalFuzz are the best of the best. Who knows what he is doing anymore. 4K is the way to go.

[@lurcharoni]

I really just wish all reviewers would reveal what hardware they use to watch movies. TV model and type at the very least. If you are a "reviewer" I feel it's a must. I personally care about the movie more than the presentation but watching an amazing 4K disc on a $300 LED 4K TV or a $2000 OLED TV will yield tremendously different results.

[@ElliotCoen]

I'm always open about my setup when folks ask (LG B8 OLED 65inch + Oppo UDP 203) - had my mileage and hoping to upgrade later this year!

[@ozzy.....7383]

Jeff said in one he had the Sony 700 player probly upgrade since then. I have seen these things they say are good but look bad to me

[@BloopsnBleeps]

I'm in between. I have zero problem buying bootlegs if the studios won't do a good transfer or won't release movies. To me, it will forever be better owning a subpar transfer of something than not having it ever available. I just won't pay full price

[@cianog]

The niche aspect of 4k vs Blu-ray is what drew people to his channel. For him to pretend otherwise now and do a 180 is odd and makes his channel irrelevant going forward.

[@anthonytitone]

He’s rebranding, got popular on tik tok, changed his channel name & is now aiming for a more general audience to discuss movies with. I think he’s being genuine when he says he enjoys this more & that he was pausing on frames to compare & that it was taking away from his enjoyment of films. His rebrand is fine & he’s communicated it well but obviously u don’t have to watch if u don’t c value in it

[@Lona_Chess]

Agreed. He wasn't the most thorough reviewer, but I still liked his presentation style and was sometimes curious what he had to say on 4K reviews. But without reviewing any 4K releases, I have no use for his channel. While it's his choice, I just don't see what he offers that's unique or special when delivering general film reviews. I wish he had expressed more gratitude for the 4K fans that helped grow his channel. He can abandon us for something he likes more. But it works both ways. I've unsubscribed from Jeff.

[@TheAlexZorba]

A great 4k transfer is a beautiful thing but I have no desire to upgrade all my blus to 4k. I also dont really care about the technical numbers but at the same time a shitty transfer should not be given a pass. Its all common sense.

[@garymoviefan4294]

Appreciate this Elliott, It seems to me that the worst offenders of bad 4Ks are Paramount eg Godfather Trilogy, Planes Trains and Automobiles, WB Studio eg Max Fleischer Superman cartoons, Maltese Falcon (not Warner Archive which is one of the best), Universal eg American Grafitti and lastly the James Cameron titles but as you say, the majority, especially most boutique labels make exquisite releases, most notably Indicator and Arrow.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

Hm? Godfather? I personally don't own them but as far as I have seen, the 4K transfers look really good.

[@colinginty625]

Godfather Trilogy on 4K was very good. Packaging was trash, but I thought the films themselves looked fine

[@anthonytitone]

I haven’t heard anyone complain about the Godfather trilogy 4ks, especially as a prime example like this. What don’t u like about the transfer?

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

Damn the Godfather 4K was so bad lol. Frozen grain, bad HDR implementation, rough encoding and compression issues, the whole 9 of a bad transfer

[@wolfbrigade8042]

@@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r Frozen grain? That's probably something you only see in motion, right? That would explain why I haven't seen any issues with it (I've only seen high quality screenshots).

[@williamthomas3536]

You do a great job with your reviews, but I think Jeff is missing the point. 4ks are usually are around £24.99 to £29.99. That's a lot of money for one movie and you could stream the same movie for pennies. With that in mind, you can see why people take 4k seriously. People just want to know they are buying a quality product.

[@BadBeardDude]

When I watch your video's or Jeffs, I'm just looking for a recommendation for a movie. I'm not technical and when I started my collection, I thought I needed to buy nothing but 4K and that anything else was inferior. But I've learned that the Blu-ray format still offers tremendous value, with image quality and how they're packaged for collections with nice cover art and other bonus material. I just want to enjoy great movies and love the feeling of ownership of physical media. If I have the option of 4K and standard Blu-ray in front of me, I'll go with 4K but if it's a movie I can't get in that format, I know most times I'm still getting a very good quality product in BR. So it's channels like yours and Jeffs that I gravitate to the most.

[@stevemuzak8526]

I've noticed recently that there is too much toxic positivity out there. It's as if reviewers are afraid to be critical. Example: One of the most famous movie critics on youtube, Chris Stuckmann, refuses to criticize bad movies, etc. It's just ridiculous. We need to be extremely critical to companies who sell bullcrap releases. If we don't say anything they will continue to release more crap. Don't accept bullshit.

[@ElliotCoen]

I have been loosely following the drama around Stuckmann and I get where people are coming from. Personally, I like to try and be positive where I can but I know that's not for everyone. I have seem some terrible films in my time but you won't find me talking much about them on the channel, as I like sharing the films I enjoy and find interesting. Thanks for watching and commenting Steve!

[@stevemuzak8526]

To me the truth matters the most. Truth prevails. @@ElliotCoen

[@444chroma]

Agreed, some of them are afraid to bite the hand that feeds.

[@tjdw5251]

Yes there is that. But also there is a particular reviewer, who I wont name, who is shamelessly just lying about the Cameron 4k releases so that he can get more people to use his Amazon Affiliate link to sell more copies. The guy is lying about the releases its kind of insane. It's getting real tricky out here to see who is an objective reviewer, who might be dancing around a subject to not get hate or cut off and who are just literal salesman and have completely sold out. Some really concerning and disingenuous stuff out here. But I have said this before and I'll say it again: The good thing about releases like these coming around is that you can really see who and what you can trust as a review, reviewer and as an objective source.

[@MOOeymania]

lol

[@kyles7087]

I love your channel Elliot, and Jeff’s. I think you’re quite perceptive about what we enjoy. I think that lord of the rings video may have led me to your channel, but I stayed when I found your film recommendations, which are amazing. I collect audiophile vinyl pressings as well, and the KZbin content for a new record is quite similar in getting into the fine details of a release. I don’t see why the same scrutiny shouldn’t be applied to home video. The fact is, the mastering matters, and sometimes when a film or record is reissued, it gets diminished. But I think your strengths lie more with film recommendations, as you have excellent taste in a broad range of cinema, a lot less mainstream. The way you communicate your feelings on a film you love, makes me excited to watch. I love when you get into the best release of a film too, and the information on reissues you provide is second to none. When I come away with a new favourite film or company I hadn’t heard of doing great work, that’s just so valuable! Thank you for sharing your passion with us ❤ 🎥 🎞️

[@screamingeekmedia]

I can see both sides of argument here. Sad reality is since the T2 4K, everyone is going through these new Cameron releases with a fine-tooth comb! As a content creator myself, I am watching a movie with that in mind. But at the same time trying to enjoy it for what it is. But I d think our voices need to be heard. Sure, it probably won't make a dent. But it might deter some from buying future releases. Especially if it is already on blu-ray. Their would be no need to risk the upgrade. But for The Abyss and True Lies (which never had a BD release), it is hard NOT to buy new 4K, as it will be major upgrade over DVD regardless of the DNR. I have followed Jeff for several years now (his being the first I come across) but have watched less of his channel this past year. If a content creator wants to change things up, so be it. I wish them luck. That's where we have the choice of continuing to watch or not. I personally think (just my opinion) that some people care too much about the numbers. Sure, it's great to see the subscriber number go up, but I really love to see the comments. My channel is small so I don't get many comments or likes. But enough to make me want to keep doing it. I now understand the work it takes to put up content. Very time-consuming. So mad props to anyone putting content out on their channel on regular basis! Anyways, great discussion! I don't think it's wrong to bitch & moan about something. BUT, I do think we need to be constructive about our criticism.

[@Animal_lives_matter]

Why I don't like 4k blurays: 1. Most of them are modern hollywood movies (nil interest) 2. They are usually "remastered" which means the original artistic intent is compromised (different colour grading, scenes edited). DVDs have issues too with the rereleases often being inferior to their original releases. The rule of thumb is "the older the DVD the better" (higher bitrates, no colour regrading, subtitles always included).

[@BUKUDI]

Nah that doesn't sound accurate. Theres just as many old movies on 4K as modern

[@TheConstructiveCritic888]

I don’t think people flocked to your LOTR 4k trilogy set video isn’t because they were in the mood for negative reviews. I think people ASSUME that 4k blu rays will be amazing and done very well. But when they get the feeling something isn’t going to be amazing then they wanna research to see if they’re wasting their money. 4k blu rays tend to be expensive, especially upon initial release. So when it’s a trilogy box set that retails for around $100, they want to make sure they’re not going to be let down.

[@scottylovesthings]

Yes! I love seeing my two favorite blu-ray KZbin channels collide! And I love that you and Jeff are friends.

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks for watching, Scotty!

[@AVAPopCulture]

As a filmmaker who has shot and edited films for over 20yrs, I felt I needed to do a video on why most 4k reviews are wrong- so many folks use words like "grain stability and fluctuations", "inky blacks", bit rate" etc etc without any foundational ideas of why film grain is there, how or why it my seem to fluctuate or why a scene may look more "waxy" than another if it is DNR'd...heck, your player or HDMI cable can be the cause of bit rate fluctuations/lag as much as the disc! Criticism and reviews of 4ks are fine, I do them on my channel...but it is important to understand exactly what is being reviewed and why things exist in the film regardless of the restorations...

[@mrb0775]

First of all, thanks Elliot for the considerable amount of your time & energy that you devote to helping make people like me better informed about good (& even great) films and movies of the past to the present, as well as quality editions of them, in disc form. In my view, what is making many folks so concerned about the issue at hand, is their worry that a significant number of 4K Blu-ray editions of films that we're getting are being produced by some folks who don't take enough care in creating 4K versions of the films they release on the 4K disc medium, so that some of the very look which makes a movie look like film, as it surely looked when it was projected from a film reel, may then be turned into a 4K Blu-ray version that has a digital look which makes the movie appear to be an artificial reproduction of film. And to me, that's certainly a valid concern, as it's one I share, myself! (Wow, I just wrote 1 LONG run-on sentence that my high school English teacher sure would have penalized me for! But having spent the entire night on KZbin, instead of sleeping, I'm too tired to correct that now!)

[@WakeUpBritain.]

Saw this video of Geoffs the other day, and it did make me take a step back and think for a minute tbh…. Maybe as collectors because we invest so much time & money on movies & AV equipment we do get a little hung up on negatives of the 4k format…. Most the time like you both say the physical 4k release is probably the best it’s ever looked, it’s just nice to know whether or not it’s really worth spending the 20 odd quid to upgrade from the existing blu ray, if it’s a much better picture or a better Atmos / DTS-x track. That’s all !! Good video 👍🏼

[@tommyricknell2829]

I always pose a hypothetical scenario: imagine Da Vinci and Picasso resurrected, deciding to deface the Mona Lisa with dog shit and pink paste just because they can. Cameron's action has truly opened Pandora's box, and this madness will only encourage other studios to employ such irresponsible AI techniques. As fans and collectors, should we really consider this acceptance? Influential figures in the collecting community endorsing this behavior is disheartening. Until now, we've enjoyed remarkable preservation efforts, but these actions threaten to erase that progress. It's a shame. And let's be clear, this isn't just a pixel-by-pixel issue-it's much larger than that. It's a dangerous path we're heading with new technology that alter art, in this case movies

[@ElliotCoen]

I've said this many times over the years about 'director approved' releases. There's a whole host of presentations that have looked different because of changes from filmmakers, sometimes 50 years after they first made the film. Famously the Wong Kar-wai restorations changed the colours, which I didn't like personally. At what point do we say to artists and filmmakers that their art is no longer theirs'? Maybe once a film is released to the public, it ceases to be their possession. I guess it's a much more philosophical question that we can answer in a KZbin comment but it's definitely something to pay close attention to! Cheers for the comment Tommy

[@zacharybryant9881]

@@ElliotCoen I tend to agree with the sentiment that once the public has it, the author doesn't have any special ownership over the work, or its at least very heavily lowered from before. When I personally look at situations with WKW, I don't think my issue is he made a change, but he seemed to want to make the original restoration disappear in some ways. I think he's in his right to make a change if he wants to do it, just like directors will come back with a black and white edition. The difference is, I can still watch the color versions of Fury Road, Godzilla Minus One, or Logan, but it's very hard to watch the original restoration of Chungking Express for example. Preservation should allow both to exist and I feel I only have issue when a filmmaker tries to gain some sort of rights over something that they no longer have full ownership of anymore.

[@ElliotCoen]

@@zacharybryant9881very well said. I agree. I have no problem with a filmmaker altering their film, as long as the original version is maintained and also restored.

[@mauriciogutierrez2145]

😮😅😂 da vinci and monalisa!!!!!!

[@Martinmd12-zt7vu]

Definitely check out Rick Worley’s video on the Star Wars special editions. It’s really interesting.

[@444chroma]

Jeff is a known layman and frankly that helps you get popular with mainstream people who would actually be turned off or intimidated by a person qualified to speak about technical matters. movies are merely disposable entertainment a lot of people...something to help pass the time and they never get past their terrible setups, objectively poor tastes, and low standards. It's all very sad. 4k is a niche format for ENTHUSIASTS....it's perfectly acceptable and should be encouraged to educate yourself and get down in the weeds with these transfers.

[@Johnboy2k7]

I disagree they’re for enthusiasts. Why are you gatekeeping the format? Movies are for everyone.

[@Takeshi357]

@@Johnboy2k7Yeah, don't think, just consume product, then get excited for the next product

[@TheNotoriousNemo]

I collect 4k movies since a a few years ago, dont u ever say we shouldnt take 4ks too seriously... >:(

[@QuietlyTalkingMoviesASMR]

4K should be the ultimate quality of the film that is available on physical media, but at the same time I think we foremost should simply enjoy the films themselves. That being said, especially for people who are collector's, the quality is important and I think the people who are behind the restorations should bear that in mind and strive to provide the best quality.

[@wclark3196]

When I got my 4K TV and started in on optimizing my home viewing experience, I found Jeff's fairly small channel. That was in 2019. It didn't take long to realize that he's usually talking out of his ass. Most of his technical explanations of things range from not quite right to really rather wrong. And this is the guy, when he got a Sony x800m2, said he left the Dolby Vision set to "on" all the time, even if it wasn't a DV disc he was watching. He's said he likes bright vibrant colours. I'd be surprised if he set isn't still on "Display" mode. He seems like a decent regular guy but I wouldn't trust his advice. I love films and I want the best possible presentation. Your LotR video was actually really helpful to me. I decided to keep my extended cut DVDs since they look pretty good and have lots of features. I want to be warned about bad transfers that apply too much DNR. I'm not a snobby videophile purist, but my money isn't infinite. I'll stick with DVD or Blu-ray if the 4K is disappointing.

[@greatdelusion7654]

If money was no object, would you still upgrade to 4k on so called ‘disappointing’ 4k transfers?

[@wclark3196]

@@greatdelusion7654 I might buy them for myself and see if I like them. Get rid of them. If I don't. Because you can't be sure if you don't experience it. For example, I'd heard people say there are issues with 4k Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Then someone gave it to me as a gift and I thought it looked quite good overall, so happy to have it. But everything I've heard about LotR 4k makes me think it's not for me. I did double dip when I bought the Criterion 4k of Days of Heaven. I love that film and it is gorgeous. The 4k is even better with Dolby Vision HDR. I had to see for myself, so risked it.

[@stepheneadon6453]

The problem is with all the positivity I have been burned - I got the godfather 4ks based on positive reviews and was shocked

[@xNickTheBrickx]

As a new collector of 4ks, the quality of the 4k will absolutely 100% determine if there is any point in buying it. If it doesnt look good, im not going to spend the extra money on it when i can stream the movie for free or buy a blu-ray or rent it for a few bucks. What is amazing to me about 4k is having this entertainment setup with quality audio and video i could not have imagined as a kid. So basically I like movie reviews and I also like disc reviews. I am not ever likely to have such an expansive collection, but it is "serious" or at least prudent that when i spend the money on a 4k that i get the quality that is the entire reason I buy it for.

[@blu-rayswithnathanjones]

As someone who is not on the technical train myself, I appreciate your thoughts on this topic, pal. I truly believe that there is a tricky balance of positivity and negativity, and it can easily get toxic on either side. My approach has slipped back into passive enjoyment, as the world is becoming colder and colder. Simultaneously, I believe it is good to be critical of the people and companies that miss the mark for that cash grab or lack of quality control. As a content creator myself, I am thinking about this balance more and more. Cheers pal 🤘

[@XenomorphLV426]

There's a lot of 4k shills

[@zenquantum1246]

It’s great that there are fans and channels dedicated to the technical proficiency of 4Ks. The very smart people who engineer the devices and media that have made 4k viewing at home possible deserve praise. I could never do what they do, and it’s good that they have fans who appreciate their work. Casual conversations between nerds often make the next generation of tech possible, and I never want to back to viewing VHS via coax cable on a 15-inch CRT. On the cinephile scale of 0 to 100, I definitely fall somewhere in the middle. It pains me when I see an OLED angled at 45-degrees getting superheated over a fireplace, and the motion-smoothing is still turned on. However, I know that not having an Ambient Light Reducing screen for my projector (because I like the fact that I don’t have a big blank rectangle on my living room wall when it’s off) would make other cinephiles roll their eyes at my lack of dedication to contrast. As a successful KZbinr on the subject, I think Jeff has just been getting a lot of intense attention and needed to vent a bit. Of course he cares about quality, but unless it's truly atrocious, it's probably not going to derail most people's enjoyment of a film

[@rinzlur-k6m]

Jeff has become a sell out. All to mainstream himself since he recently changed his channel to his name.

[@m.dorado6966]

What I like about your channel are the Criterion recommendations. I'm not wrapped up in technical aspects of the movie. I'm looking for a picture & sound improvement over the previous format along with special features including commentary about what sacrifices went into making the film.

[@ElliotCoen]

I really appreciate that! I have some Criterion recommendations coming next week. Thanks for the support as always!

[@JoshuaSutlive]

Great video on an interesting topic! I definitely agree certain people on forums can really go too far sometimes and scare newer fans of the format away which is very frustrating to see in this already niche hobby of movie collecting. While I generally won’t let a mediocre release keep me from buying a film I really want and I am far from someone technically minded enough to count bitrate, I do really appreciate those who take the time to do this kind of analysis as it keeps these companies in check and makes sure that they are doing their best as 4k is very likely to be one of the last physical media formats we’ll see for a while. While I think recommendation videos are fantastic, the issue I see in many disc reviews is that they are often just that and not very through when talking about the disc itself which would be fine if they were just reviewing the movies with maybe a few comments on the presentation or the bonus features but to frame a video specifically as a 4k disc review should entail a bit more in-depth critique in my opinion. I’m not generally even all that upset with releases having slight tweaks so long as the filmmakers are involved (though James Cameron and George Lucas are really putting this to the test) but on standard studio releases they will often not consult anyone who worked on the film at all hence a film such as Trainspotting being colored incorrectly for decades on home release. I even recall Roger Deakins talking about how frustrated he got when he tried to rewatch Shawshank Redemption a few years ago and found the “remaster” had altered so much of what he had intended to be seen. Just the fact that that a relatively recent movie so popular that it’s regarded as the highest-rated film on IMDB can’t be preserved correctly is incredibly concerning to me and given that 4k will likely be the last release of these films for a long time and will be used for streaming and theatrical DCPs as well, I do think it is kind of important that we take it seriously. Sorry for leaving such a long comment. This is just such an interesting topic for me, I had to give my two cents(or however many I’m up to now). Hope you have a great day!

[@AndrewBuckleBookReviews]

Definitely watch your videos for recommendations, really not the least bit interested in bit rates or the colour grading etc but it does make some impact on buying decisions if I see reviews talking about how bad or not a 4K is but in many cases, I have probably pre-ordered it and got it and made up my own mind about that as well. 99.9% have been excellent but as my TV / player setup is not the best, blu-ray is pretty fine for me as well as DVD. Just good to get recommendations about films that I have watched in the past or ignored before and decide to tryout.

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks, Andrew! I’m glad that my recommendations help you find some new films to watch.

[@ThierryBerard]

I do think (personally) that you have explained the problem way more well than the video of Jeff. I do agree with both of you. But i can understand why there's some rare people that didn't liked that vidéo. Criticism is good and can alert people in very very rare occasion. But we shouldn't be that critical with everything we have haha

[@ElliotCoen]

Great point. If you always have a critical mind switched on, it can be exhausting. For most people, movies are a way to relax and unwind after a long day. Cheers!

[@williamdriver1959]

I don’t watch for people’s opinion of transfers I make my own opinion.

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

Same here, only I've concluded for me that 4K for the most part is not my cup of tea. Yes, the format is being taken way too seriously. Most 4Ks that I've seen reviewed have issues that bug the hell out of me as a lifelong film lover, mainly so-called 'restorations' of older films that 95% of the time end up looking nothing like you remember them in terms of the all-important grading situation. So much so, that I don't even bother with the format at all it's like they're being produced for a whole other generation accustomed to modern filmmaking, thus applying the same ideology onto older films. Goodbye 4K, shan't be missing your revisionist rules...

[@Celestialrob]

I don't watch Jeff any more. So I'm not 100% sure what this is all about. I take movies seriously. I take watching them seriously and this includes my home theater and the discs I buy each week. The reality is that most discs are excellent and some are great. Some are not so good. I don't stress it too much.

[@ElliotCoen]

It’s a good approach, Rob. I love when a great disc releases but also don’t let a sub par disc ruin my week. Cheers for support as always!

[@Celestialrob]

We just watched The Abyss projected byn a nice JVC 4K on a 12 foot 2.35 aspect ratio Stewart Screen. It was a revelation, as was the sound. Yet reading stuff on line you'd think it might be problematic. I think that at the end of the day I watch movies not discs. Stay well.

[@GrayWolf5000]

People invest money on a 4k tv/ projector, players, sound system, and the discs themselves. Why would someone who dumps so much money on a fromat not take it seriously? If you are doing all this it's because you want the best most accurate presentation, right? Because if the disc is not that different or worse than the blu ray or dvd, then just save money and get the dvd...

[@joker927]

Taking something like this seriously is what seperates the average consumer from the hobbyist. This is art and saying you are taking art to seriously is a ridiculous statement.

[@hiair]

BALANCE. I loved your Lord Of The Rings video, I saw passion and objectivity well BALANCED and justified. But about Jeff's video... If we are not going to take anything serious then why we just don't watch everything in our phones? Other people does it... but we can't, can we? You are absolutely right, we are a niche. Given the nature of that channel and this one I can bet that we are all film nerds here; we know too much about movies and how they are made to "just don't care" when we watch them. I also bet that many here are not just collectors, many are also filmmakers or aspiring to be filmmakers, hence our passion for the perfect presentation. How many here have expended the money and time we don't have so we can have the perfect home theater? It's all passion. What's wrong with always seeking to obtain the best of the best? It is out there, we are paying for it, and we are not killing anyone in the process. As film collectors, we are not just blind consumers, we want to help with art preservation, small details do matter; they may not matter to the general audience, but they surely matter to US. We are buying what nobody else cares to buy anymore, because we care. If Jeff Rauseo doesn't want to take his hobby as what he calls "seriously" anymore, fine, that's his choice, but he has no right to ask me and others to don't do it ourselves. We don't have the right to tell him how to run his own show neither, he will agree, so we should agree to go separated ways. I started watching his channel because he used to take his reviews seriously, I mean he got into technical details, because the reason why as an audience we click on a video like that is not to get a movie review of a movie we already watched, the point is to know how well is the movie presented in the disc. I don't see a point in watching his videos anymore if he's just going to keep saying "whatever" with each new 4k release; critics are supposed to be picky, demanding, and objective. Nothing wrong with being picky, all the contrary, specially being a critic. Pointing to details and comparisons is not only entertaining and informative, it's also very appreciated. If arguments in the comment section get heated, thats an inevitable part of fandom, as long as they continue they will eventually settle down, who's right and who's wrong on what, evidence will tell, (thanks to the details again) but running away does nothing to settle anything.

[@GA-1st]

Keep up the good work, Elliot! Fascinating comments by the fanatics you're alluding to. A niche within a niche, indeed. I guess they believe they're doing the equivalent of "god's work"! It gives them a sense of importance, I guess. I wonder if there's a DSM-5 category they fall under?

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks so much and to your last point, yes almost definitely!

[@reyluna9332]

I like a thorough technical review because I don't want to waste my hard earned money on hype over substance.

[@LexxExpress]

Great video! I just subscribed!!Look I laugh all the time when the opening line on a comment is the typical entitled take saying: “4ks are expensive & we want our money’s worth!” 😂 get a grip , buying day 1 or regular msrp base price is totally optional. EVERYTHING goes on sale & if you are patient enough you can get them even cheaper than the first initial wave of sales. You can find something to cry about in every release wether it’s lack of special features or missing details that could’ve been restored better. Yes constructive criticism is welcomed but sitting at home watching a format on whatever devices you have doesn’t make you an expert in that field, it makes you a super fan if anything. Who knows what the excuses are for these distributors to make these decisions outside of cash grab and budgeting. At the end of the day truth is MOST 4k releases do end up looking better & having some sort of redeeming quality. If its not up to par with your expectations then stick to the bluray. We have have options 😂no one is forcing anyone to run out & drop $40 on a movie. Complain about food & necessities going up not an overpriced film release that you couldn’t wait to own only to cry about it...

[@EduardKoek1]

Thanks for your opinion and interesting video. This is on my mind for a while and I get so tired of all the people complaining about discs. Yes, bad discs shouldnt be released and dnr can sometimes be annoying, like I will never buy this version of Terminator 2 on 4k or American Graffiti. But sometimes I feel bad by enjoying a 4K disc I enjoy and people are complaing so much about it on the internet. For example: I think Mask of the Phantasm was incredible on 4K, but a lot of people were complaining that it didnt include the broadcast version. It's getting more and more expensive every day and I'm just so happy what studios are releasing these days, we should cherrish that as well. Anyway, long time fan from the Netherlands. Thanks for your content.

[@ElliotCoen]

Hey Eduard, thanks for the great comment. I thought the Mask of the Phantasm 4K was very good. No complaints from me there. I enjoyed myself a lot watching it. Cheers!

[@LILGHETTI]

I don't trust james cameron 4ks because he is taking the George Lucas approach unfortunately

[@richdickerson9590]

Hi Elliott… greetings from way over here in the Midwest across the pond. Hey, will you shoot me the link for the company that you got those special additions of the old Alec Guinness movies? Lavender hill mob, etc. Thanks brother!

[@EricMalette]

My copies of The Abyss and Aliens both have points where the image breaks up, gets all scrambled, then freezes. It can't be a coincidence that both these discs are doing this. I've never had playback issues on my Panasonic. I'm less concerned with how these discs look and more how they perform. Big QA issues with these releases.

[@mrpebbles3904]

as someone who normally doesn't notice these types of things. the ai in true lies was very noticeable. i got to watch a free version of the 4k but i can only imagine how people who paid for it might feel. i feel like not calling these sorts of things out only hurts us as consumers in the future. if everybody felt the same way as jeff. these companies would take advantage of us.

[@FlashGaems]

I started collecting recently because I’m tired of streaming services taking a hit on movies I love in terms of quality, not to mention that a film you love may not always be available on your preferred streaming platform. So my reference for whether I approve of a 4K purchase is if it looks better than 1080p streaming, and it pretty much always does! That said, my newfound passion has been fizzling out because of people being too technical and serious with 4K releases. I’m here to 𝘄𝗮𝘁𝗰𝗵 movies, not pause and stare at them. If at least 90% of the image looks good (which it usually does), then I’m satisfied with my purchases. If something is noticeably off, it’s perfectly reasonable to be vocal about it so studios know how much we care about receiving quality products. I love this discussion coming from 2 of my new favorite content creators because I am of the mindset that I’m grateful to be living in a time where we have 4K. If I had a choice, I’d watch every movie I’d ever want to see in a theatre only, not at home. It’s the reason why I haven’t seen The Lord of the Rings because I don’t want my first time experiencing such a grand trilogy to suffer with an average at home setup. Now with this newer technology, I’ll be watching those movies really soon and I couldn’t be more excited.

[@vlogsbyalejandro]

This might be weird to say, but I think you're lucky that you haven't seen it yet. I don't wanna say anything else other than, enjoy the ride. 🤘🏼

[@FlashGaems]

It’s not ruining it by any means, but when I was excited about watching the Lord of the Rings on 4K, instead of hearing a simple “yes it’s better than the Blu-ray,” others’ reviews were getting to me when in reality I don’t think I would’ve even noticed. It makes me feel like my purchase wasn’t fully worth it. Most comments I’ve come across just come off as if they’re directly looking for something wrong with the product, which impacts my enjoyment of the culture surrounding said product. I’m here to experience a format that has brought fans of movies together to experience something that formats of previous generations couldn’t offer. I still believe that if errors in a 4K transfer are noticeable to most purchasers that we should be vocal about it. But actually pausing the movie to look for flaws is a form of entertainment that’s not for me.

[@FlashGaems]

To be honest, I assumed every copy I’d buy on 4K would take up my entire TV screen. I quickly realized I was wrong and that watching a movie like Top Gun: Maverick with those IMAX aspect ratio sequences won’t always be the case lol. What I didn’t even know was a thing until watching reviews of TLotR on 4K was DNR and it removing authentic film grain was an issue for some ppl, which I get because it makes the movie look more digital. I have yet to actually watch the movies (they’re being shipped to me in a few days), and when I do, maybe I’ll notice how waxy the actors actually look. But for now, I’ve been really impressed and satisfied with my purchases.

[@vlogsbyalejandro]

@@FlashGaems I'll say this, if you have an eye for it, you'll be able to tell. If not, then you won't be able to tell. As a cinematographer, LOTR is beautifully photographed, but I just wish that they would've stayed true to the original image on the 4K. I love my 4K blu-rays of LOTR, but I'm not gonna say the video quality looks amazing. What's amazing to me is the story.

[@Returntotheworld]

Am I missing something? I can’t see the video of your chat with Jeff listed?

[@flyingrobotduck]

I'd say many people get bogged down in the fine details of 4k releases, and that's a problem. But these are certain issues that need to be covered like DNR, color tone, how many extras if any a release has. If it's an older movie if there are any issues like dirt or deterioration that are glaring and distract from enjoying the movie. I don't really know much about bit rate to know how much it contributes to picture quality, but I have noticed a steady increase of the quality of Blu-ray picture quality between newer and older releases, regardless of the actual age of the film.

[@MadMartysMovieReviews-gv6hk]

Excellent vid Elliot, I'm like you i don't know all the technical aspects of a 4k transfer,bitrates and so on, i review it as a movie fan and put across what i think about it,good or bad and hopefully it'll help other movie fans about getting it or not...that's why I've watched your channel 😊

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks as always for the support Marty!

[@RetroTechSelect]

Side-by-side comparisons take so much time to capture, composite, and cut together as well - which only adds to the stress of seeing a video underperform.

[@wileyjdraws7594]

Was the original Star wars trilogy ever released on Blu-ray unaltered?

[@ElliotCoen]

Not officially but you can get the despecialised versions which serve a purpose!

[@vlogsbyalejandro]

Hit the nail on the head. 👍🏼 I think most of us collectors don't really take 4K blu-rays that seriously. I definitely realize that there are people out there that really do care about it, some more than others. I particularly don't care that much, unless you say that it's not good and not worth getting. Lol I suppose it depends on how serious you take it. I don't take it that serious, but I'm aware and I do pay attention to the details, not as much but you get it. I do own the Lord Of Rings 4K collection and you're right, it doesn't look very good, but I won't let that stop me from enjoying one of best movies ever. Thanks for this well thought out video, Elliot!

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks so much Alejandro! Really appreciate your support.

[@Veniceredmask01]

The reason why people are anal about 4k is because people don’t want to be ripped off. 4k is barely noticeable over blu ray. So analyst information is important if I’m going to replace my blu ray version over a 4k

[@TroyUlysses]

Jeff is a Horror fan who accidentally got big on YT. I feel he knows zero on cinema in general and has very little knowledge about films outside of Horror, which is fine, but it really grinds my gears he puts across a persona of a cultured cinema goer when he really isn't. Elliot appears genuine and he clearly knows a lot about cinema and is an intelligent guy and cares about the movies he watches. Jeff on the other hand, feels fake and click baity. I stopped watching Jeff a long time ago as I don't find him authentic at all. I wish he'd just be himself and review Horror, whether that be 4K, DVD or VHS!

[@ElliotCoen]

With all respect, I don't think you can get big on KZbin by accident. The system is set up so that if you don't provide value on a consistent basis, your channel doesn't go anywhere. Lord knows I'd love to get big by accident lol! I can only comment on my own interactions with Jeff but I find him a very genuine guy with plenty to say about cinema, not just horror. Thank you very much for the support of my videos, I do appreciate it!

[@CaptainHowdy]

I subscribed to Films@home because he discussed how a good transfer could make an amazing home viewing experience. He was recommending movies from Blue Underground because of the effort that went into restoration. I unsubscribed when he undermined his resin detre with a video suggesting it doesn't matter what effort goes into media it matters if you like the film. I have tried watching movies on Plex and I'll take a good transfer on physical media thanks very much. Films at Homes' growth was due to people like me. @@ElliotCoen

[@TroyUlysses]

@ElliotCoen Appreciate the reply. My wording wasn't great. Jeff knows what he's doing. But I think even he agrees YT was not a planned profession. His channel grew better than expected but he has definitely played into the algorithm to achieve that. I feel he reviews films he dosen't care about and promotes discs he was gifted then appears to sell on his "false urgency" auction app for inflated prices, which I disagree with and very much contradicts his own videos about collecting and feeling pressured to "keep up." But that's just me. Keep it real Elliott!

[@XenomorphLV426]

Jeff is in it for the 💰

[@TroyUlysses]

@XenomorphLV426 Absolutely.

[@danielthegeek4582]

A video popped up in my feed only today.. a review/analysis of a particular film, which runs for almost an HOUR AND A HALF. For one disc. So, I would say, some people are most definitely taking it entirely too seriously. I mean, I want to know if the picture is decent; whether it’s a marked improvement on the bluray, or if it sounds nice, but there is no way in hell I’m sitting through a review that’s almost as long as the film I’m going to watch. I collect for good movies. Not because there’s a pixel that’s six shades of green too bright at the 149th minute of Ben Hur. Perspective, people!

[@ScruffyWarlord]

I watch The abyss and true lies on 4k. The first time I watched them because I enjoy those films. Did I enjoy the movies themselves? Yes I did. However as I was watching I did notice many issues that looked “off” that momentarily took me out of the film. Would I still watch those version over the DVDs? Yes absolutely. But after I watched them I put the discs back in and I realized just how POOR the transfers are done. So yes people have a right to complain. I respect disagree with Jeff on this. Also the statement that 99% of 4k discs are the best version to watch is easily false. I could name hundreds of 4k where the blu ray is miles better than the 4K. I will drop a few names (pans labyrinth, T2, pirates of the Caribbean, Shaun of the dead, forest Gump). I would say 80% of 4k discs are better than the blu ray. Also Elliot you say you aren’t very overly technical over the movie transfers. But in December 2020 you bashed on Peter Jackson for completely applying DNR in his LOTR 4k releases (and rightfully so!). You were the only online reviewer that called that behaviour out where the movie were introducing digital artifacts everywhere . Whereas Jeff was praising it at the time. I think we need to call out quality. Right now we only get consistent high quality from the likes of Second Sight, Vinegar Syndrome, Arrow Video, and Sony plus a few others. We have a right to demand a higher quality Elliot. Regardless I’m a fan of your channel so please don’t take my comment personally. Cheers mate.

[@victorfontaine000]

Yeah. I am no longer hearing “4K restoration from the original camera negative or inter-positive” but hearing the term “4K digital restoration”. The studios are going to the cheaper way of just up-converting the old 2k scan to 4k.

[@santiagorodriguez9849]

Mmm I don't know, it's a difficult topic. I don't think it's a niche of a niche, if it were like that and the vast majority of people only cared about the movie itself, then everyone would have stayed with the DVD or with the Streaming since at the end of the day PQ is not important and what matters is the movie. Or also why all the hate about the release of T2 in 4K? In the end it is one of the best action movies in history and what matters is the movie.

[@MajerHawk]

So what’s the point of his channel then? He should just shut it down, pack it up and move on. Right? Smh

[@joker927]

Of course, people will go there to learn if he likes a 30 year old movie or not.

[@jaimin9777]

i would argue otherwise that being the 4k format a enthusiast market it works like any other market for enthusiasts. Audiophiles wil obsess about quality, bitrates...car lovers will go on and on about car parts, performance...and so on. 25-30 euros/usd a pop you can't really expect otherwise. It is the nature of the beast

[@GrayWolf5000]

I can kinda understand his point, we only had these on dvd and the fact they are now available on 4k is great. But at the same time I don't think that makes it free of any criticism.

[@s_c_d]

Thanks for this. A very reasonable take. Frankly, I want to see more recommendation videos like you mentioned - I love seeing what you and other KZbinrs find interesting, I couldn’t care less about bitrate drops in 4K UHDs. Keep doing what you’re doing.

[@s_c_d]

Reading other comments here and dang you really do have a lot of followers who view you and similar channels as basically consumer review info. That’s got to be disheartening but don’t let the loudest, angriest folks get you down. KZbin should be for more than just whinging about technical issues in something you bought. Please ignore them.

[@BackwoodsFilms]

I wish I had so few problems in life that insignificant issues on a 4K disc was something to worry about.

[@ElliotCoen]

All that says is that this topic isn’t important to you, which is fair enough. I’m sure things that are a problem in life for you would equally not bother me too much. That’s life. Thanks for watching!

[@mynock250]

My thing is ,I like 4k reviews because I want to know if upgrading from Blu-ray is worth it. In some cases in has not been when it comes to older films. I will only buy new please movies in 4k, but older movies unless there's extra content or an easily noticeable then why waste the money.

[@jeremydrew1227]

Older movies benefit way more then new releases on a 4k transfer.. not sure what you're talking about.

[@johnscott4385]

I do enjoy your content. The “rush” by some reviewers to find something wrong with a new release seems to detract from the movie enjoyment experience. I have all of Cameron’s new releases. Yes, I can see some of the issues when I look for them. But I buy these to experience a movie I like in the best format available. To be enveloped in the story is why I watch, not to pick it apart. I do care about quality but primarily I care about enjoying the story.

[@u77750]

Thank you Elliot. I agree totally. The reason I buy them is I want to see the film and want it in my collection. I am not an expert on any of this. My old eyes are not that sophisticated enough to tell the difference anyway. I expect the 4k to be better anyway. My upgrades replace 10-15 year old Blu-ray’.

[@ElliotCoen]

My pleasure and thanks for watching. It's true that our eyes are different and we all have levels of sensitivity to how we view these film presentations. Members of my family can't tell the difference between a DVD and 4K and that's fine! You do get some snobbery amongst the technical folks who look down on anyone who can't see the flaws in a presentation.

[@GRORGvideot]

I bought my first glasses last summer. And boy has the "free upgrade" been most welcome. Some of the best dvd releases look like bluray, blurays sometimes look like 4K when trying a fast with/without swapping test with them goggles and 4K looks even better with glasses on.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

This whole conversation really is a tricky one. On the one hand, obsessing over anything will eventually drain you out and maybe even ruin the fun you once had with whatever hobby you're pursuing. On the other hand tho, 4K discs really might be the final physical version of any given movie or TV series so expecting it to turn out as good as possible is a reasonable expectation I'd say. 4K UHDs are THE premium format for a very small niche of collectors and purists who only want the best of the best. And it's a bit sad when the big movie companies and directors just don't manage to do that and go out of their way to alter or change the respective movie in any way (DNR, edge sharpening etc.). I appreciate when 4K fans and enthusiasts mention any potential flaw a disc might have. You can then go ahead and decide for yourself if it's worth it or not.

[@triplejazzmusicisall1883]

One thing I find very interesting is today we are tlking more about the definitions of DVD's rather than the actual movie/film itself. I don't care what definition a film is presented if the story is garbage. Amazing how people can forget the obvious. It was like that in the photographic society I once was a member of. I left because the equipment became a far more common and beloved topic to discuss than the actual images being shown. It was very much excuse the pun 'Toys for Boys Society'. Forest for the trees.

[@Chrisratata]

I feel like you already strike a healthy balance with this, Elliot. Which is all Jeff is saying really. There's a difference between healthy criticism vs unhealthy obsession. Jeff never said he wasn't going to point out flaws, just that he wasn't going to devote but so much time to *proving* or finding differences that his natural eyes can't see. That the movie is priority one. PQ is still important!, it's just not worth literally stressing over. Technical details can be fun but when it gets in the way of enjoyment then it's not a bad idea to reassess oneself.

[@Chrisratata]

@@miz4535 🐤🤏🏽

[@CDubya.82]

DVD is fine. Bluray is great. 4K Bluray is a luxury. So ultimately I ensure all my 4K releases have the Blu-ray also.

[@yayin21]

I haven’t even made the switch to 4k :/ my setup isn’t for an avid film lover, tbh so no reason to spend extra on 4k discs unless they include blu ray

[@manssonskultur]

I totally agree with you there. Thank you for sharing this.

[@machiel5888]

i like this video, Elliot. I think it's important to talk specifics.

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks very much for watching!

[@JeffRauseo]

Good response! I think we are all making a healthy shift to a different form of criticism and review style. At the end of the day, it’s about the movies!

[@ElliotCoen]

Yes indeed - the movies are the main thing always! Cheers for checking this out Jeff

[@duncandonuts5268]

i think a lot of people took Jeff's video as "like whatever they put out and don't complain," which just completely skimped over his point. he said several times in the video that there's nothing wrong with getting into the nitty gritty of releases and to do what you like.

[@Carlos-gc4hb]

I just finished watching TrueLies and the movie looks fantastic.

[@BackyardPix]

I agree with others who are weirded out about this "toxic positivity" thing that's going around all suddenly. If something is shit, you should definitely call it out. It's never ever wrong to be critical. Like, how fucking sad is it that a Spanish BOOTLEG has more image detail than a studio released 4K disc? Nuts to me how anyone could be okay with that, but we are living in Bizarro World times, so what can ya do. Haha.

[@eGxShooteRz]

The Perfect Set Up For A Boxing match between You and Jeff, I Would Pay To Watch It

[@patrickthurston8811]

I liked your point about recommendations. I bought and rewatched Barry Lyndon last month :)

[@williamdriver1959]

They look great. Best they have ever looked.

[@markh351]

I used to like Jeff, but no more. I stopped watching his channel quite a while ago. One thing I always found is that he would never react or respond to any of my comments on his videos, and I often found that he was condescending to certain viewers when he did respond. I also found him to be very opinionated and self-righteous about things, especially real life issues (which he would post about on Twitter/X). Also, he is always buying new release material which he might mention once and then you never hear about it again. I'll bet only a very small percentage of his movies ever get a second watch. Well, it's his money I guess LOL. That said, I prefer regular Blu-ray discs because 4K discs can be fickle no doubt because they are trying to pack so much data on it. Unless HDR is present, I'm usually hard-pressed to tell the difference between regular Blu-ray and 4K, although to be fair upscaling might be part of the reason.

[@joetilocca1233]

Well done my man. Love all forms of physical media.

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks so much, Joe!

[@12me91]

These corpos want us to give them our hard earned money for these discs. There is no taking it too seriously when they want us to pay for it

[@superstew79]

Jeff is quite the scare monger I find, he’s done it many times sadly. What I don’t get about his vid is why make something like that but go out of his way to get multiple versions of a film from different studios or countries? I think it’s cos his views are down on film reviews but high for the more rumour mill fear mongering vids, the only high film views are the big ones like titanic or Oppenheimer.

[@Thecatdrums3]

Jeff’s channel and like many on here sadly are not ones I would recommend to people that actually like films. I don’t think saying that this film I am buying is edited from what I actually want is taking something too serious. Lord of the rings, jaws, aliens, true lies & t2 are films that people love and they changed so much that it can’t be truly said it’s the same film. Star Wars made this normal and I would say that number of actual 4ks that are worth buying and preserve the films theatrical or the directors vision are more like 66% easily 1 out of every 3 discs is awful and Disney just did 0/3

[@ThreechTHEdruid]

for the price i want true upgrades not just same copy as sloppy hdr

[@DanKeatis]

For years and years I've been yearning for a 4K blu ray of Amelie. Then when I found out about the recent rerelease in the US I was bemused at why it was only on a 1080p blu ray. It seems director Jean Piere Jeunet is quite dismissive of the format and thinks it's a gimmick. Which is a shame because I can only imagine how sumptuous that film would look with HDR and WCG. But the director disagrees. Still, by all accounts the 1080p blu ray is pretty great. So why does it irk at me that there's no 4K?

[@MyFireVideos]

Excellent video Elliot!

[@ElliotCoen]

Thanks for the support as always!

[@BigBossSquirtle]

Why i love channels like In Search of Physical Media is he rips images from source data and compares them side by side. He doesn't go in depth about nits and memory usage. He just goes by what he sees and hears and if it's an improvement from what was available before.

[@ryans413]

If you’re not sure adopt the wait and see approach. Wait for the film to go on sale and then buy it and test it out for yourself you might like it. I find it strange people base there choices off of what someone else says. I’m not buying any of the Cameron films because this guy on you tube told me they used AI. Well have you even tried it out and see what you think.