Three-way vinyl record wear test

[@vwestlife]

Lots of people talk and worry about vinyl records wearing out, but finally here is a controlled, long-term experiment to test how much audible wear actually happens to records played in real-world conditions on a variety of turntables. I highly suggest a quiet listening environment and good pair of speakers or headphones to observe the results. However, the main takeaway from this test is something that experts have already known for the past 75 years: dust, dirt, scratches, fingerprints, improper storage, and a worn stylus are the real enemies of vinyl record life, not the kind of turntable you use. Do your best to avoid those perils, and your records will provide a lifetime of enjoyment, even when played on inexpensive equipment. FYI: The records I tested are slightly transparent when held up to a bright light, indicating they were made with a vinyl formulation which used dye instead of carbon black; these records (marketed under various names such as "Super Vinyl", "Quiex", "UHQR", etc.) are known for their very low surface noise and anti-static properties, but sources differ on whether they last longer or actually wear out more quickly than conventional vinyl. Unedited video of playing a portion of the record on the Quasar 50 more times, for a total of 100 plays at the end of the test: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5bIZaqmbriqqtE Lossless recordings of all four records used in the test (both the entire album side played with the Stanton 681EEE cartridge, and the brief samples I played using the Shure M75): drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UscEjplMoS6l-Rw3RAnWlDdOY06-GhID (Yes, the unplayed record actually has more pops & clicks than the ones that were played 50 times. Maybe it has some dirt in the grooves, and/or was a noisier pressing than the others. None of the LPs came with inner sleeves -- they just put the record directly in the cardboard jacket.) Time flow: 0:00 Introduction 1:17 The equipment 2:55 The records 5:35 How many times? 7:37 How often? 9:58 The test 13:34 The results 17:08 Analysis 22:31 Stress test 26:12 Conclusion p.s. I found the obituary for the father of the group, which says the Marcus Family Singers were formed in 1974 and were active for seven years, and recorded two albums: www.petersonbrothers.com/obituaries/calvin-marcus Also I looked up the songs on the album in the copyright database and several of them were written in 1980, so the album is probably from 1980 or 1981. You can listen to the full album here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWLNe6utmdWLbJI

[@rienpost3145]

@@AneeshSeeYay Seriously? That's your problem?

[@JoeOrber]

@VWestLife Thank you for going into this level of details for our benefit and enjoyment 😊

[@jdekong3945]

Beautifully executed tests, thanks Kevin, I won’t look at my SC-12H with a suspicious eye ever again 😸

[@capolaya]

When I was a child, I had an LP of "Help" by The Beatles that played it so many times that it ended actually worn out. The record player was a suitcase Denky turntable.

[@StubbyPhillips]

Well, one thing's for sure... it didn't get any better.

[@AkosJaccik]

06:40 - Say what you will about RCA, the fact that they implied (with a straight face no less!) that an audiophile will "show off his sound system to friends" more times than actually listening to the records themselves is both extremely hilarious and fairly spot-on.

[@smvwees]

Yes, audiiophiles listen to their equipment, while the rest listen to the music.

[@teeteetuu94]

You know about that audiophile stereotype... "Audiophiles use music to listen to their gear."

[@SharonMacVicar-o9g]

I feel one of the reasons for this is that audiophiles play those songs so often for friends that they tire of them and do not want to listen to them when alone. I guess it's too much of a good thing. ~

[@thehunterofdeath2180]

😂😂😂

[@WingManDan55]

@@teeteetuu94 I get it - 'stereo' type ;)

[@sweet750-sc1rr]

Your dry humor is lost on a lot of people, but I very much appreciate it.

[@azjames8789]

Your channel is the only channel that uploads this sort of content. Most channels cater to the audiophile foolery but this channel debunks it. Keep it up!

[@truelazerlight]

Not the only one. Might I interest you in a chap called Techmoan?

[@vwestlife]

Also see Record-ology.

[@azjames8789]

I am subscribed to both of those channels and love them. They showcase a lot of interesting things but I don't believe they've ever debunked any of the audiophile nonsense that goes on in the world today.

[@ShazeemKhan]

I love how kind & respectful he is to other channels, even promoting them. Not a fight down competing channel

[@tiobetio9501]

@@azjames8789 Techmoan has debunked audiophile nonsense. For example there was the video where some company sold a device to shave the edges off compact discs. They claimed this increased fidelity. On a CD.

[@matt.604]

I bet more people listened to the Marcus family in the last day than have ever before.

[@Dave2108]

thought that too... Also wondering if the family is still about and singing.

[@someguitardude8462]

Honestly it’s a minor miracle in and of itself that these records are playable at all. If they were handed down at a church (which is implied by their quantity) they would be either played to oblivion by fundies or tossed into the most forgotten corner of the house. Maybe the distributor themselves gave them/sold them to the thrift store?

[@bsanchez3563]

​@@someguitardude8462huh.. ngl man that is a pretty legit good point lol fwiw I can easily see it being one of those two vs in between for the lack of dust and yet still warpage in some of them.

[@ExtraThiccc]

​@@someguitardude8462 it's possible they were MEANT to be handed out, but just never were for one reason or another

[@doctorquestian]

@@someguitardude8462 i'll bet a few of them served as first, second, and third bases for kickball.

[@slowpawstevet3676]

back in the sixties i left a party and returned in the morning to find my brand new Roling Stones album had been left on repeat overnight for several hours, the record showed no signs of wear at all and fifty years later after countless plays it still sounds fantastic on modern equipment.

[@force311999]

same hear he says 50 plays, no way we all played our AC/DC records every weekend for 40 years and they still sound great more like 50 plays a year

[@mikequinlan9585]

I agree, we all buy used records and play them on our high end stereo systems and they sound great. You can imagine those same albums were played on all kinds of cheap systems in the past. Stop worrying about the records and enjoy the music you love.

[@owenlaprath4135]

A good player with a new stylus will leave no audible deterioration with less than 50 plays :)

[@thehunterofdeath2180]

Facts that happen to me too and my record is like 50 years old still sound good just got to keep them clean n dust free 😂

[@doctorquestian]

If it was a pressing of "Hot Rocks" I could never find one that didn't have flaws. They came from the factory with flaws, and it always sounded like massive record groove wear.

[@jozefserf2024]

These aren't mere clickbait fripperies, these are informational videos for the ages. Basically you can play your records as often as you want.

[@a4andrei]

*as long as you take care of them (which I'm sure most people won't)

[@kpanic23]

Well, in the case of this specific record, it amounts to zero times. 😄

[@mikesum32]

@@kpanic23 She was gone in the twinklin' of an eye, and didn't have time to say goodbye. It may have even been while she was singing the song.

[@Think_Up]

I plan to use the term "fripperies" more often in the future.

[@Brain_Juice]

@@Think_Up Yes.. And why not! Go all the way Fripperary, fripperial, fripperarity, fripperaritous, fripperaritosity, fripperariousness, fripperious, fripperiousness, fripperiosity, fripperiositous, fripperiositosity, fripperesque, fripperesquosity, fripperariness, fripperanimity, fripperanimous, fripperous, friperousness, fripperositous, fripperositosity, fripper, frippering, frippered, fripperied

[@dougkinne1192]

Man, you just stuffed a whole bunch of vinyl snobs in a place they deserve. This test deserves 1 million views min. Great job with the test. Data proud!

[@wymotome]

How so? I think "vinyl snobs" are all well aware that with a good table and good cart you can play your vinyl records without fear of harming them. Matter of fact, most of them preach this when folks tend to worry about it.

[@dougkinne1192]

@@wymotome Vinyl snobs are those folks that came up with utter bs like Vinyl rest, for 24 HOURS. Silly Or that it is time to replace your vinyl after any number of plays. You are correct that those that say, keep your gear clean are spot on. This well thought out and logically performed test put to rest that snake oil statements made by folks generally selling pollihollow thermofuzz fake remedies, are shown to be disingenuous.

Did he ? This guy has his own bias, which is is that he thinks cheap plastic, junk, chinese made crap is okay to play precious record collection on. His whole channel is him being thrifty... or perhaps a hoarder, and playing old beat up crap I would NEVER touch. You guys wanna use crossleys and cheap ceramic carts to play your stuf back fine, but don't start this proselytizing crap. I literally laughed out loud when. he represented some obviously worn, aged, second hand stuff as "high end gear". No. Even his technics is still some belt driven thing with microphonics in the case. he didn't even use modern, new records, trotting out some corny religious stuff. Guy probably listens to the smothers brothers. I imagine his fan base is a bunch of old middle aged men that weren't successful in life and can't afford anything good and so get away with grabbing this kinda junk from the salvation army and trying to represent it as good gear.

[@dougkinne1192]

@provisionalhypothesis Talk about proving a point, snob..

[@coltonroark]

​@provisionalhypothesis You should pick up one of those records he played. Sounds like you need Jesus.

[@beau-urns]

The man employs scientific method in his tests, that’s why he is reliable.

[@doctorquestian]

Chrysler came out with an under dash record player for your car that played 45 RPM records. I'll bet it didn't take very long to get some record groove wear on those! And then remember those little cars and trucks that would drive around and round on your record and play it while it drove?

[@electronixTech]

"I'm getting a fundamentalist Brady Bunch vibe from it." Thanks, that gave me a good laugh.

[@kaohsiung99]

Just saw a Yahoo headline today... It said that all of the Brady Bunch kids were 'hooking up' back in the day.

[@kirkmooneyham]

I appreciate the fact that you have seemingly gone out of your way to be reasonable with this test. The music selected was done for the purpose of matching all of them up, nothing to do with what sort of music whatsoever. You maintained a regimen of playing them according to a schedule. Kudos to your dedication to getting trustworthy results.

[@darkdeepred6577]

That vinyl relaxing period theory sounds absurd

[@AnalogSins]

I'm not sure. There is a lot of vibration and friction, and vinyl is a relatively soft material. Once every 24h-s is stupid, but playing a record over and over and over and over again, probably creates quite a lot of surface heat.

[@HambertHM]

I studied materias technology at university. Yes it is absurd. It would be a problem only if it were played so fast that it could got the chance to heat up, but It won't heat up not even a little bit and even if it does, it would dissipate it immediately.

[@DavidWasman]

@@AnalogSins That would only be possible had the needle continuously ran the same exact groove for hours at a time. Literally impossible. Physics alone disproves this asinine theory of surface heat. I mean, the needle is long past the area it would even put a remote amount of heat on, which is insanely negligible, before it ever started on that groove again.

[@NJRoadfan]

Funny how everyone says "According to studies" but never EVER cites the actual study. Take the "stressed vinyl" theory with a grain of salt until someone digs up an actual controlled study.

[@peterbustin2683]

Its like that crap about CDs being repeatedly played !

[@MVVblog]

Does no one remember that 45s in jukeboxes played all summer long continuously every day without fail?

[@koozmusic]

Ehhhh... I *distinctly* remember hearing severe groove wear out of jukeboxes from time to time. Obviously dependent on a number of factors, but I'm willing to bet that the tracking forces on most of those machines was brutal. I loved watching the fancy automatic changing and playback mechanisms when they had windows, but they always looked like the tonearm was being absolutely slammed onto the record.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Yeah, totally _LoFi_ ...

[@analoglooney]

@@koozmusic Early ones playing mono records maybe, but the ROWE -AMI juke boxes played at very low pressures, as did NSM's and late Rock-ola's. I still have singles played on my ROWE-AMI that used an ortofon om10, and they're perfect. Rock-ola fitted the ACCU-TRAC tonearm to boxes in the 70's onward which was specifically designed for the geometry of a 7 inch record to minimise record wear.

[@koozmusic]

@@analoglooney Hmm, interesting! The OM10 would definitely fall into the hi-fi category, for sure. Perhaps it was just the industrial-looking tonearm and deliberate, mechanical movement of it all that made me think they were rough on records. Then again, these are memories from the 80's and early 90s and I was a child. My dad had a very nice turntable though and taught me how to properly treat his equipment and records at only like 5-6 years old. While I found them infinitely cool, jukeboxes always appeared to handle them in a barbaric way to me. 😬

[@analoglooney]

@@koozmusic LOL, yes they did look very crude and I didn't care much for the SEEBURG and early Wurlitzers. If you're ever out buying 45's you can always tell if they have been played on a Rock-ola. As the records revolve in the carousel they are kept from falling out by a metal band that passes underneath them. This eventually wears a slot in the edge of the records, especially the ones that aren't played a lot. The vendors didn't care as by the time it happened, no-one was playing the record anymore as they were bored with it! The computer controlled ROWE-AMI-s of the 80's also had jewelled arm bearings. Amazing for a juke.

[@williammcneill4178]

You give such an objective take. I feel like trying to enter into the hobby is so hard because of the amount of purity test and audiophiles making this seem like you need a budget of at least 2000 to even start. You give real advice that doesn't sugar coat, but also doesn't demonize

[@AshtonKish]

Those folks fail to understand that telling people, "You're too broke to engage in this hobby" will never, ever get a person into vinyl listening. Get someone encouraged and started on simple equipment, tell them how to use the cheaper equipment to their advantage, and watch them work their way up! All this special noise equipment is hard to understand, and you have to take it in small portions.

[@frankowalker4662]

That proves what I've always thought... It's not what you play them on, it's how you treat them.

[@wymotome]

Would still feel better about playing an expensive record on a good quality table with a good cart vs. a cheapo Crosley. Even that Quasar is superior to a Crosley.

[@frankowalker4662]

@@wymotome I agree, but if all you've got is a Crosley, then you don't have to worry too much.

[@wymotome]

@@frankowalker4662 A Crosley was not tested and I have seen with my own eyes the "Crosley Crop Circles" that those turntables leave behind on newer vinyl. I would not make assumptions based on this video when it comes to Victrola and Crosley as they are different animals than that Quasar. And for the record, a lot of older vinyl was superior to the newer stuff. I'd like to see the test redone with a few modern "clearance" albums from the local Target.

[@frankowalker4662]

@@wymotome Good point. I've got one of the UK versions of Crosley. (same design, different brand). But I only ever play my 1960's-1980's, (already scratched), records on it. My main deck is a Numark TT 1625 with an Audio Technica cartridge.

[@justinparkman3585]

That's the problem buying second-hand records. you just don't know how they are going to sound even If they look mint they could be full of dirt and dust and permanently damaged by a worn stylus it's pot luck .

[@Maxxeine]

That virgin vinyl joke made me die

[@vinylarchaeologist]

You're awfully good at writing KZbin comments, for a dead person.

[@suntexi]

Sounds a bit dirty - like a doll that's still in its box and hasn't been inflated yet!

[@WildWeaselPhantom]

Two VWestlife videos in one week? Awesome! Your videos have been superb since the channel first began.

[@yeahreally9185]

I think it's funny that the dudes who swear a Crosley will literally eat a vinyl record are the same ones who will advise playing without a dust cover for some modicum of improved fidelity. Audiophiles are a superstitious bunch

[@excrono]

As with any kind of enthusiasm, being an audiophile has an element of subjective emotional response or nostalgia. In the face of that, taking an objective, critical approach to music appreciation, analysis or creation can be challenging. When people feel like their beliefs are being challenged the knives can come out.

[@thiagomelo4256]

This is exactly what the vinyl community needs right now! People are being shamed to buy expensive equipment right from the get go, and treating vinyl like an extremely delicate form of music consumption, when the thing that greatly impacts your listening experience is dust! Congratulations on this lovely video, keep up with the great work man!

[@jayuno3009]

I like that you call out people who waste time on forums, pontificating and arguing about how you should listen to music. They spend more time doing that instead of enjoying their music collection.

[@pomonabill220]

But you need those $1000 cables and "hyper shielded power cords" with the 500 lbs concrete turntables to REALLY get clean sound...........NOT!

[@Dwarg91]

Music lovers use equipment to listen to their music, audiophools use music to listen to their equipment.

[@a.lisnenko]

Just WOW! Big amount of work and systematic approach to tests! Huge respect! Many thanks.

[@mushroomsamba82]

I haven't been to church in 30 years but suddenly I feel the need to go...

[@sjefhendrickx2257]

Why? Because of that strange song about a fictional person?

[@rokuterra]

@@sjefhendrickx2257 Reddit is down the hall, to the left.

[@suntexi]

Me, I'm off to the local coven to do a bit of chanting to offset this.

[@InterestingThoughts14]

​@@sjefhendrickx2257brotha have some respect please 🙏

[@kaohsiung99]

@@sjefhendrickx2257 You doubt that Jesus existed?

[@koozmusic]

Holy crap. You weren't kidding about the quietness of that vinyl - specifically the specimen that was used on the Audio-Technica (21:19). Dead silent! Also interesting to hear the left channel dropout in the master (or production master) tape near the beginning of that song (21:24). Maybe the result of poor handling during splicing or cueing, etc. Makes me think it may have been recorded at 7.5 IPS? Haha, I don't really know. It's uncommon to hear tape dropouts on pressed records though, in my experience. Side note: you have quickly become one of my favorite channels on subjects like this. I wholeheartedly agree with your opinions/testing/conclusions, etc. and I love the lack of audiophile snobbery BS. 🥰

[@SigEpBlue]

THANK YOU for putting another nail in the coffin of the whole "let the vinyl relax" malarkey! I'm not sure why some people in the industry thought it was appropriate to anthropomorphize vinyl records, but it's borderline crazy IMO, especially without data to back up the claim. Much like you, I've found that simply keeping the vinyl clean, and cleaning when necessary, to be the most surefire way to have a great listening experience.

[@andreasu.3546]

Maybe they were hoping they could talk people into buying more than one copy of albums and singles they liked.

[@SianaGearz]

There absolutely are polymer use-cases where you want to give the material time to recover. It is particularly the case with items that deform in use, giving them recovery time slows down polymer creep. EVA shoe soles are an example. I don't for a second think that records are susceptible to this. Hard PVC has very little creep to begin with. To be a little pedantic it's not PVC but according to Brydson's Plastics a blend with... i forgot, and doesn't matter, the mechanical properties are basically identical. To be kept in mind when you replay it, at least a few minutes have passed with material essentially at rest, after it was under impact for one tenthousandth of a second or so, just... different timescales to such a degree, that i don't see how a few more hours would help.

[@pault151]

@@SianaGearz Remember the math question about which put more lb/sq in onto the floor, the elephant or the person wearing stiletto heels? The stylus radius being 0.2-0.3 mil for even a high quality stylus, and the amount of the groove wall vertically being contacted being on the order of 1 mil, the force pushing the stylus side to side is then being applied to an area of, ballpark, .0000006 inches square, or a multiplication factor of around 1.5 million. So 1.5 g = .0033 lb force, over 5000 psi. A handwave value for one reference's current recipe of 2/3PVA, 1/3 PVC mix in records is around 4000 psi tensile strength. (Not sure of exact grades mixed, but PVA is quite a bit softer and somewhat less crystalline than PVC.) Plus the stylus is applying a very significant thermal spike for those milliseconds. The surprise is maybe that the record surface /doesn't/ quickly degrade, though certainly the stylus is great at embedding dust and other particles into the groove walls. This test by VWestlife is reasonably scientific to the end result of "does it sound immediately different? No." and all of the commenters' related experiences with how poorly 45's in jukeboxes last are also a good bound to show that degradation is indeed happening from worst case high intensity repetition. I'd bet that 45's in radio stations, while probably kept clean, had even worse lives for the first week or two after the A-side hit the charts. FWIW I know from experience that playing a favorite vinyl album every afternoon after high school before the parents got home, on an ancient record player with a lot of tonearm weight, does indeed wipe out the grooves after maybe two hundred plays. I don't recall playing it multiple times in one day very often. But it certainly sounds like crap now, on a far better rig.

[@SianaGearz]

@@pault151 Yes you make a strong case that the stylus has a substantial impact on the groove surface and i agree. I don't know if tensile strength is a good metric since OK there would be tangential tensile impact, mostly compressive, but there is wear for sure. I also made a brainfart, the polymer used in records is a copolymer not a blend and yes polyvinyl acetate is softer. Brydson specifies 15% acetate used for vinyl records. It's ultimately not necessarily cut and dry, i mean, we all remember worn records, but was the gradual damage caused by the stylus contact, or was it caused by contamination such as surface dust, and how much of either? Dust can be substantially smaller than the stylus contact patch, which is bad, and it won't be as nicely shaped as the stylus. It's worse if you're tracking at 6g than at 1.5g for sure. The question here is "letting vinyl relax" and that it does nothing, because whether it relaxes for 3 minutes as you replay the same song over and over, or for 3 days, that's effectively both a very long time compared to the millisecond fractions the groove spends in contact with the stylus. So repeating the record constantly should induce the same wear as playing it for the same amount of time in total but letting it "rest" in between.

[@hfric]

The power of JEsus must be like STRONG in your house right now ... hahaha

[@Thanson199415]

My first turntable is in this video! The ATPL50. I gave it to my grandma while I upgraded over the years, sadly she passed and now that Audio Technica ATPL50 is very sentimental

[@Seandoestech]

My original copy of the Star Wars soundtrack is basically unplayable 45 years later because I abused it, Never cleaned it and played it almost daily for many months in a row. My childhood friend still has his original copy and it sounds fine even though he played his just as much, possibly more. The difference is, I was a slob and never cleaned mine and he was meticulous in handling and removing dust and dirt from his vinyl. I was Oscar, he was Felix.

[@branhicks]

I had a collection from my childhood that went through a lot. I was able to bring most of them back using cleaning vinegar and warm water

[@mrnmrn1]

You might have a problem with mold. Since you have nothing to loose with that record, I suggest you to try my method, which brought back many unplayable records to G+ or even better condition. If a record is highly contaminated with greasy fingerprints and dust, it gives fuel to mold. If I come across a record with unknown history and it is heavily distorted, first I use a high concentration sodium hypochlorite (bleach) solution used for removing mold from walls (called SAVO in Europe), I soak the grooves on both sides for about two minutes, than rinse it thoroughly with tap water. Be careful to avoid the label with the bleach, as it will fade it! You need a solution made for mold removal, regular bleach (at least what they sell in Europe) is not concentrated enough. Than I wipe the record dry with soft paper towels, and this time I soak the grooves with formic acid based limescale remover for about 5 minutes, than I rinse it with tap water, and as a final step, I rinse off the tap water with ~ 1 liter of deionised water per side, and let it dry on its own for a night, hung up on its center hole. The hypochlorite dissolves mold and most other organic contaminants, the formic acid dissolves limescale that might be present in the grooves from a previous flooding or from wet playbacks. After this, you need to replace the inner sleeve as it is probably contaminated with mold spores.

[@suntexi]

I used to get very OCD about playing records, putting a little dust-collector brush on the records before lowering the arm, wiping each side with a special anti-static cloth, making sure the inner record sleeve went into the outer with the openings at right-angles. If I was very good, I never even got to hear the music, and the dust bug caused the record to slow so the music was noticable off-key. I got fed up with this rubbish in the end, and wished there were a way of listening without all the faff. And then came cassettes!

[@manFromPeterborough]

@@suntexi There were also headshell mount brushes

[@rager1969]

Boy: Mr. Owl, how many times does it take to wear out an LP record? Mr. Owl: Let's find out. One. Two. Three [violent scratch noise]. Three!

[@billh.1940]

My ex girl friend said once, she uses multistacking. Note ex gf.😂

[@IsraelQuezada999]

My family's had many records since the 60s, a lot of them have been played countless times and they are more than 50 years old, but they've always been taken good care of and they've always been played with high quality cartridges with good condition stylus, and many of them still sound awesome.

[@lestatdark2621]

I've been following your channel for almost 10 years and let me tell you I believe you. You always achieve a great sound on your videos and I started to collect vinyl because of them.

[@IsraelQuezada999]

@@lestatdark2621 Thank you!

[@spacemarine8289]

I have 40 year old records played on the same stylus hundreds of times each. They're next to indestructible, just make sure they're clean.

[@cyrfung]

It’s beautiful how much effort went into designing the methodology and thoroughly described in details in the video

[@WillisJaxon]

Answering all the questions again. Thanks for the good work on the channel!

[@jnorthrop70]

New VWestlife video on the Fourth of July! I didn’t know there was presents on 7/4 but I accept!

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

lol "Fundamendalist Brady Bunch" xDD And i love that you are one of the very few veteran youtubers who still produces quality content without Style-over-substance bus getting to the point to answer some questions in a practical manner that barely anyone else does. Trust me, Kevin. It is MUCH appreciated. I'm still glad i found your channel MAny many many moons ago.

[@shua333]

Thanks for putting in the months to make this video. Loved it. My Soul is now restored.

[@GarthBeagle]

I imagine the Marcus Family would be proud that their unused recordings helped in this test, especially since we were all straining, listening so closely to the words and music (albeit for signs of damage 😁) Fantastic work!

[@homotube100]

LOL but they would be very unhappy it was in the name of science

[@JoeJ-8282]

Much Respect for the amount of time and patience that this test took in order to make this video! Well done!

[@TooHipChicks]

Nice job. There are lots of factors that play into (no pun intended) how much wear a record will show after multiple plays. Keeping them clean and your equipment in good repair are the most impactful. Can't wait for the test regarding colored & new vinyl.

[@X-OR_]

The lord works in mysterious ways....even with vinyl.

[@marks-the-spot]

But only with virgin vinyl! 😁

[@janosnagyj.9540]

@@marks-the-spot All right, no more religious jokes 😅

[@Kartoffelliebhaber]

I've genuinely wondered this for as long as i have owned records. And i could not find anyone that has made a good comparison like this. Thank you! You keep putting out great videos.

[@JoeOrber]

Wow, this is a fantastic video! The amount of time invested in creating the content, and the level of detail is mesmerizing! Thank you for sharing this with us, it is definitely clear that dust and worn-out styli would be the most detrimental factors for record-groove wear. Congratulations on this great production, keep up the amazing work 🥰

[@labworx]

Compliments from Belgium for your profound testing! Really enjoyed!

[@pip5528]

I'm religious and those jokes are pretty funny. This channel has changed my perspective on record wear in the past. I also bought into the hype surrounding ceramic cartridges in the past but heavy tracking is the least of cheap turntables' problems. Alignment and wow and flutter can be issues on those.

[@vhfgamer]

Thanks for all the effort in making this one. Just in case no one else said it. If people are still worried about wearing out their disks, they could always do what people did back in the day. As soon as you get your new album back home and play it for the first time, make a copy of it. Be it cassette, cd, or digital. Then you can play it as much as you want and not worry about wearing out the vinyl. And you can carry it around with you.

[@nellayema2455]

I had a friend who would do that back in 1978. He had a decent rig at the time, and while the cassette tapes sounded good, I thought that he was being a bit too fussy about preserving his records. I always preferred the vinyl over the sound of the tapes.

[@THOMMGB]

Back in the day, I used to make a cassette copy of a new album. I even made an 8 track copy of one record, believe it or not.

[@8BRInteractive]

Kudos to you for both this badly-needed test and for the astonishing patience you exhibited by subjecting yourself to the Marcus Family so no one else would have to.

[@mateiux]

Technics SL-1900 - "my good turntable" ... Thank you VWestlife for getting me into listening to records again, your SL-1900 review/repair video did it actually, grabbed a "not working" one right away... :)

[@MrMegaManFan]

This is by far the most thorough and definitive test of record wear I’ve ever seen! Myth, BUSTED.

[@ekenpad8482]

Way to go all ProjectFarm on Vinyl ! :)

[@stonent]

I was thinking the same thing. Now we need to freeze the vinyl and heat up the vinyl and see how it behaves.

[@ekenpad8482]

@@stonent And Cousin Eddie needs to bring out his roofing nail and tin can to compare against.

[@toddlee2571]

Another top notch video. I've said for years, that the reason most were ever soured on vinyl was they were careless and lazy with it and that most of their disappointment in vinyl playback was self inflicted. I agree with everything you've demonstrated in this video. It's why I prefer compact disc; I'm lazy. I'm not careless, but I am lazy.

[@radiotvphononut]

I think what does records in quicker than anything is rough/improper handling and playing them on defective equipment (defective stylus, defective cartridge, improper tracking force, mechanical defects with the turntable, etc.). On that note, I've seen new styli and cartridges that had some sort of defect that caused immediate record damage, and that's why I use junk records for testing when I repair a record player or turntable.

[@mrnmrn1]

Wow, defective new styli and cartridges with immediate record damage?! You should make a video about that. That's insane!

[@traxonwax]

Another amazing video. I love these needlessly long and tedious tests that you do. This one might set a new level.

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

And there rounding the last corner! It's neck to neck as they come to the needle!!

[@mazda9624]

I love your videos so much because they make me feel so much better about using my old equipment without the worry that I'll be destroying it. Seriously, all of your testing and debunking videos are massively appreciated! Btw that humor is on point 👌

[@cheeseparis1]

Thank you for this great video! I guess the fear of records wearing out comes from generations of fed-up parents telling their kids "stop playing this over and over and over and over again, or it will wear out"...

[@jinky0u812]

This was a joy to watch! And I was certain we were all in good hands of this being an accurate test. Excellent job as always!

[@scanman975]

Another thing two of them (Quasar, Technics) have in common is they're both Matsushita products.

[@peacearchwa5103]

I was thinking that the Quasar/Technics all-in-one stereo with a low-end turntable and ceramic cartridge was still made to a higher quality standard than many of today's BOTL record players. Of course, in inflation-adjusted dollars it cost quite a bit more money in 1979-80 than today's sub-$100 suitcase record players.

[@alvarosundfeld]

Wow, I didn’t know I needed this. The video was actually REALLY worth my time!

[@bertroost1675]

A lot of work. Thanks! That girl has a very nice voice and the recording quality of that record isn't bad at all.

[@svenschwingel8632]

Thing is: even if you buy multiple copies of one record, you won't necessarily own identical records. The production process itself is prone to wear and therefore produces uneven results over a single production batch. Which makes it harder to perform a comparison. This has happened to me more than once: two identical records not sounding identical.

[@wujBat]

Great video! Respect for handling such long experiment and give it deep analysis!

[@rfrover]

Thank you for all that work. Truly appreciated, as was the cameo by Vaughn Monroe!

[@poldidak]

Nice to hear a Rhodes electric piano from that era nicely tuned and excellently played and recorded.

[@Boswd]

this video needs to be pinned in every Redit, Tick tok, Instagram and Facebook comment section that talks about record players and turntables.

[@Perthshire]

I gotta have that Marcus Family album - it's imprinted in my brain now, fifty times over.

[@RadioKilla07]

I've got something for many to think about. All through the 90s and early 2000s, when the club scene was at its peak. DJ's always had their popular sets of records they would play every weekend as those songs were the most requested or simply just very popular. Just imagine how many times those records were being played on a weekly basis. I used to DJ with Vinyl and our common setup was two technics 1200 mk2 Turntables and either Stanton 680el cartridges or Ortofon Nightclub E Cartridges. I swear some Of those records had well over 300 to 500 plays. Mind you they were played at 4 to 5 grams on average which many would say OH MY WORD, THAT'S TOO MUCH. But in the Disc Jockey and Broadcasting world company's like Stanton and Ortofon designed cartridges to play at those tracking forces. Anyhow even after so many plays of those records, I will say, they still sounded great. I've digitized some of those records and if I didn't tell you that that record was played over 100 times, you would never Know. So I think Vinyl in general is a good medium and well underestimated. That's providing you take care of them.

[@shiva_MMIV]

You have the patience of a saint 😂. Also I think it should be noticed that nearly all the "studies" come from people with interests in them, of course the record companies will be very happy if you bought the same record time and again because "it has worn out", and the "audiophiles" have to claim they hear things others don't, etc, etc.

[@beeman1885]

Not sure if my soul was restored, but I have to confess I was tapping my feet to the music at times. What a thorough and authoritative test on the subject. Now to find my old Fisher Price record player and my old stack of 45s.

[@OldMusicOnVinyl1]

Love those Fisher-Price record players. They were built like a tank! Child safety called, and FP delivered in spades. Chunky solid build including the tonearm, GREAT tracking, doesn't destroy records, amazing sound quality even out of that mono speaker. And of course, famously indestructible. The cartridge/stylus assembly even rests on its own pivot and the arm is designed to prevent a wide-eyed curious kid from pressing down on it. I was always in love with them but was SHOCKED when I got my hands on one-astounding care and attention to detail in the design. I'll never hate on anyone for using 'em. The 825 Phonograph is the SL-1200MK2 of kids' record players. Enjoy for life!

[@zorka4098]

There's also the factor that most people are not audiophiles nor have the ears of one. So most likely, short of crackles and minor clicks, they probably never even notice.

[@gusterbrown]

Hey Westlife i’ve been watching since about 2017 but went thought all your old uploads and just wanna say your great! Glad to see your still active after all these years!

[@JohnKelly2]

Suddenly The Marcus Family is the #1 selling album on Discogs

[@vwestlife]

It's not even on Discogs!

[@bubexpress5435]

​@@vwestlife hey um I found this onn cd cassette boombox and it's getting great reviews so I wonder if it has a CSG Cassette mechanism?

[@noooonotko6bxl]

love this channel, might get into vinyl one day because of it. Still have a lot to learn about this sort of stuff, and your “no BS” approach to the facts soothes the mind.

[@ashleycox432]

Excellent test. I did hear a small difference in what I think was the Quasar recording, in that there was a very slight reduction in high frequency noise particularly in the right channel, and a slight increase in surface noise. I couldn't hear a difference that I would attribute to the Audio-Technica or Technics. I have done similar tests myself, albeit without a control (as you correctly pointed out at the time) using a cheap GPO-branded turntable. That did cause obvious damage to the record after 50 plays, including significant distortion, damage to the right channel due to the lack of anti-skate, and high surface noise. Some time ago I did a test over at Audio Appraisal where I played a record 50 times on an AT-LP60, almost non stop without allowing a settling period between plays. At the end of that test there was no damage what-so-ever to the record. With all that said I have spent years studying everything I can find concerning vinyl reproduction and turntable design and engineering, as I build turntables. I've come to the conclusion that it isn't tracking force, stylus shape or stylus material taht influences record wear, but the quality of the mechanics at play. For example if your tonearm has wobbly bearings, the stylus can't track the groove properly so will cause more damage. Likewise if the platter is eccentric or undulates as it spins, the result will be more damage. I do believe that the cheapest turntables (the suitcase style things) cause an unacceptable level of damage in a short period of time. But I do also believe that a turntable that gets the basic mechanical elements right, like the LP60, shouldn't cause any damage. For what it's worth the Technics SL-QD33 is one of the best P-mount cartridge turntables they made. The tonearm uses the same 0.7MG low friction gimbal as an SL-1200, it has non-contact end of play sensing, and the coreless direct-drive motor is immune to cogging. It might look like an ordinary albeit half decent autoamtic 80s turntable, but it's actually one of the best of them ever built. Find an original Technics P30 cartridge for it though.

[@peacearchwa5103]

I think that 1979-era Quasar turntable with the ceramic cartridge (part of an all-in-one combo stereo) was better designed and manufactured than many low-end turntables made today. I used to have a Technics SL-QD33 and actually miss it, I underestimated its quality but among things it had the lowest noise floor of any turntable I'd ever owned.

[@ashleycox432]

@@peacearchwa5103 No doubt it was better built. Even the lowest end BSR of the time didn't generally have much play in the tonearm. The low end turntables of today mostly have a couple of plastic pins as tonearm pivots. I would very much like to see @vwestlife repeat the test with the same record on a Crosley Cruiser or similar now that the control samples have been obtained.

[@clarkesuperman]

Anyone who enjoys vinyl, needs to subscribe to this channel. The effort, passion, and work behind these videos is nothing short of awe-striking. I am so glad I found this place. Thank you VWestlife. My father and I enjoy you a lot.

[@SnapCraft316]

Wow, thanks, VW! What an effort. Great video. My purchased in 1983 Def Leppard Pyromania album was played about 500 times. Yes, it's beat up, but still is OK.

[@carpandrei7493]

I guess I found this video at the right time. My 14 years old son, who developed a passion for all things retro some years ago, wants now to have a turntable and start a collection of vinyl records. So, with his birthday coming up soon, I was searching for a suitable entry level turntable that won't break the bank... I was worried about all sort of stuff, including not being able to afford a higher end turntable (I do have to admit that I kinda' support him in his passion for all things retro, I think I share the same passion, and he may have been influenced by me... ). Long story short, I'm not at ease with my final choice (Audio Tehnica AT-LP60XBT), that comes fully factory preset and uses a cartridge that requires ~3,5g of force. Was on the fence about getting the newer 70X, that tracks at 2 grams, but that's not yet available in my area and is also a bit more expensive... So, this video put me at ease: as long as I teach my son to take good care of his records, it's all good. If he'll continue in his passion for vinyl, maybe we'll get a better turntable later down the road. I remember my childhood days. My grandma had an old radio/turntable combo, that was tube based, and she had a collection of disks with stories and all sort of music. Of course 5 years old me quickly learned to operate the turntable and was regularly browsing through the collection. There were a couple of records that I played very often, sometimes multiple times a day, of course I played with the speed setting, playing a record at the wrong speed, because why not?! Well, I don't remember damaging any records... And I remember that the tone arm was made of plastic... with no visible counterweight... I'm sure it was tracking quite heavy now that I think of it.

[@RPKGameVids]

Maybe splashing them with some holy water would make them last even longer.

[@mrnmrn1]

But it must be de-ionised or distilled holy water, otherwise it might contaminate the groove with limescale!

[@stevewhitcher6719]

Regarding playing records in quick succession and damage again from the 1980's and when there was a chart, I didnt use to buy a lot of chart singles they were on the radio so you used to hear them alot for a few weeks and then they dropped out of the charts. It changed when i went to college I became a record reseller pre-ebay there were 2nd hand records shops in major cities that sold records, at the time record companies used to send radio stations free promo copies of singles to play on air and alot of these non charting records ended up at these shops, they didnt sell as no-one had heard them. The shops used to sell these not sold records for about $0.07 but you had to buy them by the 100 and had random ones sent to you. So i used to buy like 500 records at a time sell them at $0.25 to my friends and then the stuff that was left over listen to them and if it didnt grab me after 30 seconds chuck them. I got to hear a lot of rubbish but occasionally you would strike gold, something brilliant by some weird band. Once i had a record by a Dutch band and i played it it was great so a played it again and again and again it was only when my friend from the room next door knocked on the door and said Steve i know you must like that one but you have played it at least 50 times now and i want to go to sleep.

[@Heli4772]

I Like the Idea but imagine the amount of Vinyl a Jukebox would Go through in a week playing.

[@defaultuserid1559]

The emphasis on how regular folks use records is great. I used to have that Stanton cartridge on a Dual turntable (not calibrated) so I know it's amazing. I used the dust cover all the time yet still attracted dust. I'm getting a new turntable soon so this is great info on everything from record wear to turntables and cartridges. You can get some great albums that may have been played 50 times but if they were cared for, you won't notice any degradation. However, every copy of Dark Side of the Moon is worn out, just get a new one.

[@cdysthe]

Would be interesting to see the record grooves under a microscope to see if there are any visual differences. Also, a "true" audiophile would claim that the Stanton is low end and that their $5,000 cartridge would show the differences clearly.

[@dwarftoad]

A damaged/bent stylus, a dirty record, or too heavy force, damaging the record handling/storing/cleaning it, storage problems like mold etc. are probably the biggest problems. But those are still things one needs to learn about and newbies/uninformed listeners could accidentally be doing. Just playing it correctly in pretty good conditions seems to be fine!

[@NerdiestPerson]

I was only listening to the video while working and I was thinking to myself "Wow, he's spending a long time on this first recording", before looking over and realizing you had actually just spliced them together perfectly. Impressive editing! As for the music, it actually wasn't half bad, despite it giving me "Toe-tapping Country Gospel Music Hour" PTSD flashbacks. Probably unlikely to end up on any of my playlists, though

[@johnathangunzzesq.7168]

"Except for the power of the holy spirit" 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Haven't laughed that hard all day!

[@MiguelisNoisy]

@vwestlife just needed to ask a skratch DJ, I played the same sample for 20-30 min every day. It finally did wear to an audible level in a little under a year. Probably 100k+ passes over that inch of record. It was the Ahhhhhh Freshhhhh sample if you're wondering.

[@Sb129]

"Everything is about Jesus Homer" Lol I wasn't expecting that, I actually laughed.

[@waterup380]

I like how people who make the music always say music is made to be played to be listen too and enjoyed

[@fretlessfender]

Respect for putting in the labour! Didn't know about the 24 hour rest time for records, still a bit sceptical, but I will take it in account! It does no harm waiting 24 hours...

[@ceticobr]

A lot of patience and hard work were put into the creation of this video. Thank you very much!

[@SFtheGreat]

This is a shocking revelation to just understand I will not play my records more than 50 times in my life on average, really makes me think why I spent all that money on all those RSD titles...

[@eurovnik]

Great video. I think we live in a golden age for cartridges - for just $170 you can get one with a micro linear stylus, the peak of vinyl playback technology. Distortion-free opera and classical vinyl, which is about a challenging as it gets. Even elliptical styli struggle. Audio Technica At-Vm95ml FTW

[@stanleycostello9610]

I have one of these, and I play a lot of classical music. If you can afford it, get one. You will be amazed.

[@myleft9397]

Great video! Thank you for doing this. Lots of fearmongering to cause lots of money to be shelled out for expensive equipment I think. I'd love to see a "how to clean a record" video in the future.

[@galacticusX]

Lots of people talk and worry about vinyl records wearing out, but in the end they just go to Spotify.

[@thenameless3271]

I don't think vinyl is really about the quality or listening experience as much as it's a pseudo-religious activity. It's more about the process and appreciating the medium more than the end result. Which is a long way of saying: Spotify for sure, convenience and cost always wins in the end.

[@danpetitpas]

Wow! Great video. You've basically proven that dust and dirt are the main destroyers of records not stylus wear. You also pointed out what other KZbinrs have moted new vinyl: that the vinyl seems inferior, it attracts dust greatly, discs come from the factory covered in a bunch of fluff and some pressings have high surface noise. And people are paying $50 and up for them and kids think they're superior to CDs.

[@rickenbacker12]

You should have used a BSR stackable changer with a ceramic cartridge from the 70's, the turntable most teenagers had in the 70's. Put the record on and lift the stacker arm and move it to the side so the player will go into repeat mode and play that side over and over and over and over and over again to infinity and beyond. Those turntables made inner-groove distortion sound like fingernails on a chalkboard. Fifty plays non-stop on one of those turntables would reduce that record into a noisy mess.

[@ronhansen5121]

That was a really good video! You clearly know what you're talking about. Nice turntables, too!

[@ronhansen5121]

I used to play the same stack of pink Floyd/eagles records on an automatic stacked/changer when I was a kid countless times. I used to go to sleep to them. I still have those records, and the same Garrard tt I used in the 80s/90s, and the records still sound great!

[@wa4aos]

Thank You for the SKILL and TIME you invested into this series of experiments. Talk is cheap but definitive experimentation with published results is conclusive. EXCELLENT SCIENTIFIC DEMONSTRATION !!!

[@coreySLC]

The fact you listened to this 150 times either means you are dedicated to your craft or need professional help. Thank you for the info…and get better soon.

[@nazznomad]

I often wonder about service guides from the 50's and 60's. If their facts are correct. I have many of these guides. You've proven that, at least one, guide was correct (RCA). This has me wanting to read more specs in the old user/service guides. Well done!

[@ssdragunov2986]

The effort is just amazing !i love this test subbed!

[@Rivenworld]

I used to play my Dad's Bert Kaempfert records all the time and they were still good 15 years later.