WIDESPREAD LIFTER FAILURE!! MANUFACTURING DEFECTS AND DENIAL!

[@atmosphericpressure3560]

Gotta bring it back home baby! MADE IN THE USA

[@nizzurtmontalgizzert3337]

Sad thing is bud, this isnt the 50's and the majority of citizens in the USA are lazy. Quality of products made in the states are not as good as those made overseas. If this were not the case we would not have these problems. Think about it

[@reallife2849]

@@nizzurtmontalgizzert3337 sad thing is unions destroyed America. China metals suck

[@atmosphericpressure3560]

@@nizzurtmontalgizzert3337 I am a CNC Machinist in Florida so at least Im holding up my end.

[@pyrrhus17]

Sad thing is a lot of company's. Don't care about their countries. They care about profit period , that isn't capitalism it crony capitalism . We need people to build new quality businesses.

[@reallife2849]

@@pyrrhus17 👍🏻

[@kennydemartini2169]

I am so glad I found this channel, and now know that others are having the same problems as me. I have been an ASE certified mechanic for over 30 years, and have installed hundreds of camshafts.... My son and I rebuilt a stroker engine for his Camaro. I kept the cam size down for drivability and torque. We had no problems. Last spring we decided to step it up. We went with a cam kit from a major manufacturer. I couldn't even get the valve adjustment right, because every time I rolled the engine over to adjust the next cylinder, I would notice the previous cylinder had bled off and the rockers were loose. I took the lifters out, and if you smacked them, they would pop back up. After cleaning and reinstalling them, I adjusted everything and started the break-in. Needless to say, that cam wiped out within a week. Cam number 2 came from a different manufacturer, and wiped out on during the break-in. I was trimming my yard, and heard the engine change tunes. I knew something was up. That cam didn't last 20 minutes. I have NEVER seen a lifter lose one quarter of an inch in height until this cam kit. It ate itself up big time. I finally put an old cam my friend had laying on a shelf, and got some NOS lifters another friend had sitting in his parts store for a few years, followed the same exact procedure, and everything has been fine. There is definitely a lifter problem in this country!

[@jeffb3487]

30+ years as a mechanic Had the same thing happen to me, on a motor I built. Major lifter failure, one lifter looked like it had just exploded, literally broken into pieces.

[@geoffnohr2080]

Went through 2 sets of lifters and 2 cams for 389 pontiac

[@kennydemartini2169]

@@geoffnohr2080 I'm pulling the engine apart this spring to see how bad the bearings look after all that metal has gone through the engine. I don't appreciate having to do this on a new engine, but my son runs it at the track during the summer. I want to be safe.

[@geoffnohr2080]

@@kennydemartini2169 it's a shame we have to do it but in your case it's about safety forsure. My machinist mentioned things are getting pretty tight. Can't get crate motors due to no one on the assembly lines.. Sad deal. We can't count on good parts anymore.

[@Guns_N_Gears]

It all boils down to greed, and the consumer pays for it. AMERICA, bring it back home!!!

[@Chavo7986]

Mr. Ellison I been loosing faith in companies for years now, all they want is maximum profit instead of quality products. It’s really what is wrong with globalism.

[@SOLDOZER]

Geee...a company wanting to make a profit? What a concept!!!

[@lochlanweichbrodt2852]

Mr. Ellison you're not biased sir, that valve lash adjustment video was invaluable to me. I've been using it for years now and it's easily one of the best and most useful videos I've come across. God bless and take care, sir.

[@IamDerick]

Thanks I followed your adjustment procedure and it worked like a champ on my 5.7 Chevy. Two days ago I was chasing a weird issue throwing a code 33 so I checked the Map senor during my testing I hit the throttle to get a WOT signal reading from it and I had two lifters collapse at the same time. I have an original factory cam. I just installed these last March. So now I have a dead truck that I need and a possible toasted cam with no guaranties that "new" lifters will be any better. I knew I picked a bad year to stop drinking...

[@Myvintageiron7512]

I have been in the machine shop business for 32 years I also was lead instructor for the Roush Yates power and performance Engine building program I have built thousands of engines dating back to the late 80’s our super flow dyno uses a computer program to do flat tappet lifter break in We Also used oil off the shelf for many years we had no problems, in the late 90’s we started having cams go flat during break in we lost 10 engines in one month After a bunch of hair pulling and stress we changed to Joe Gibbs high ZDDP content oil our failures disappeared instantly fast forward to 2017 started losing flat tappet cams left and right still using correct oil and super flow to break in 2000 to 2500 rpm for 20 to 30 minutes also I would add that the ZDDP additive should not be used with detergent based oil it must be used with non detergent so the ZDDP additives can imbed themselves into the surface of the lobes the create a layer the protects the lobe, this only works however if the parts are the correct hardness I have to agree with what is said in this video it’s the parts We have completely stopped using flat tappets if our custom’s don’t want to build with a flat tappet we turn down the job something else to think about NASCAR went to roller lifters and cams in 2012-2013 season it was pitched as we are just keeping up with the times in reality it was done because of mass failures at Hendric motor sports Yates Engines and others became un acceptable 150k + for 1 Cup engine failure was not going over we’ll bottom line stop using flat tappets the OEM’s don’t use them this also played into it the demand for lifter quality from OEM’s isn’t there any more I know this is allot but this is what’s happening

[@Thirdgen83]

This problem existed long before "COVID". None of the manufacturers will admit that their products are to blame. They always blame the customer, even though the customers are following all of the recommended procedures to the letter.

[@Chevelle602]

Yeah this has been going on for about a decade

[@danspears635]

You’re exactly right I remember when you couldn’t do a brake job to save your life. Every one of them squealed. They had us putting squealer pads on them sanitizing everything standing on 1 foot all of a sudden no more squeals I guess they quit putting walnut shells in the bricks when they got rid of asbestos

[@jameswaters3599]

Kudos for not letting your clients bite the bullet. Thank you for the information.

[@flexjay87]

I took auto mechanics and auto body classes in the late 70's. I did not pursue this as a vocation, but i did work on electrical / mechanical machines for 40 years, and i can say i have watched the systematic destruction of quality in most products made, especially any part , for any product from China. I even saw a small amount of parts from Italy, and they were even worse. Problem is, companies make money, by saving money, and this is due to allowing people with marketing degrees and accounting, to run modern day companies . The real irony is, as machining technology improved, quality fell through the floor .

[@VinnyMartello]

Fun fact: If you see something "made in Italy" it's actually made in China. Why??? Because Italy is importing Chinese slaves to run their factories.

[@flinch622]

The big slide began with Clinton gifting mfn to China in the 90's. We still haven't fully recovered Quality has raced to the bottom everywhere. I knew a guy who worked in a US sawmill -volume [board feet per hour] became king, and the skills of sawyers orienting pieces to get best quality cuts was largely abandoned. As I think about it, a stack of 2x4's in the late 90's became a nightmare if you wanted to frame with straight lumber: 30% waste seemed to be the norm for anyone wanting to do quality work.

[@andrewevans1658]

As a fellow machine shop owner I totally agree with you! The problem isn't confined to lifters, all parts suck , regardless of the name on the box and the price. I send back over 50% of the parts I purchase because they fail to meet my QC requirements.

[@robertclymer6948]

Good For you Andrew! A man that cares about his business, and his customers. Bravo!

[@UndefinedStasis]

It's like that with literally all car parts for the past 3+ years, everything costs more and the quality is significantly lower. For example, I have a hotchkis front and rear sway bars in my car for the past 7ish years, I used oem end links that came stock on the car that already had 80k miles on them, those end links lasted another 50k miles with the upgraded sway bars. After those 130k miles they finally died, so I went to advance auto and got duralast ones, they lasted 3k miles. I assumed that the brand sucked went back to advance auto and tried a different brand similar results. Then I went to a dealership and ordered directly from them, they lasted probably 1k, so I made my own afterwards which have lasted another 35k so far. Its not just end links, I've had the same issues with coil packs, shocks and other random shit recently, it's literally a flip of a coin whether or not you get a part that's worth a shit.

[@twincam825]

Wish more people would send them back.

[@barrycuda3769]

What's going on 'I know that you will be buying part's from suppliers that are old established names 'it used to be like you couldn't go wrong buying from them' where are they going wrong now 'why would they want to get bad reviews 'do they care?' Are you as a machine shop still able to get the quality part's you need? On the subject of lifters I've heard that some of the modern Hemis have had the needle bearings fail on the roller lifters 'where were Chrysler getting those from 'China?👍

[@russlardinois5751]

Products need to be made in America when it comes to automotive parts. Biden comes to mind for shit products.

[@robertclymer6948]

Yes sir, I have been hearing lots of stories of this problem you speak about. Do you have a way to check the Rockwell hardness on lifters and cams? When I was a Tech at Borg Warner, everything was tested in the Met-lab for micro-structures, hardness, tinsel strength, density, etc etc etc per batch/lot everyday 24/7!!! The Dang Chinese don't give a crap about quality. We need to put our foot down and refuse buying this worthless crap. It is now hard to find USA made products, and some companies lie about it. Thanks for sharing Ken. Cheers from Motown.

[@hot429scj]

Spot on. Not rocket science. The manufacturers should batch check them, Refuse ones that fail the test. Problem solved!!

[@Nudnik1]

Its not the Chinese people its greedy American s who have stuff made there and put their name on it. Send all garbage back ! Boycott china products. Only chinese take out food is made here. Big companies in America off shored for cheap slave labor no human rights no environmental laws.

[@KRTube75]

china and quality control should never be used in the same sentence.

[@SOLDOZER]

The lifters that are failing are made in the US.

[@toddtonis]

I think your perspective about China manufacturing quality is spot on. In my opinion as a retired Manufacturing Engineer, and one who has dealt with and visited Chinese manufacturers on mainland China, their manufacturing base in 20 years behind Europe, Mexico, and US manufacturing relative to quality management in production operations. I recall dealing with a quality issue where a heat treated part was breaking on customers only to find out our Chinese part supplier had changed heat treater and didn't tell us, nor did they check the new "cheaper" supplier's process quality. So, yea I think everything you mentioned is probably correct. Thanks for the video!

[@quiggleyscripple]

The real problem comes from the USA based buyers. If they REALLY wanted quality, they would insure the process is up to snuff.

[@quiggleyscripple]

@@toddtonis So, just as I said, the buyers' responsibility to their customers is not being assumed. This is nothing new, and it's perfectly possible to enforce standards on manufacturers, whether they be foreign or domestic. The odd manufacturing defect here or there is one thing, but long term obvious drops in quality control as we've seen in this case for years now is on the buyers. They obviously made the calculation that a few thousand pissed off end users are well worth the higher profit margins possible by outsourcing.

[@quiggleyscripple]

@@toddtonis So, did the supplier get dropped? That's the obvious solution, whether China or your local food supplier or butcher for your restaurant business. One can find dodgy operators all over the world. Also, if you think that prioritizing cost savings over quality is a Chinese specialty, you might want to look at US car manufacturers' reputation over the years. I'm old enough to recall the "midweek manufactured only" cars that people were buying out of Detroit in the 70's and 80's because of dismal quality control of vehicles manufactured on "hangover Modays" and "pre weekend Friday" cars. The "cost over quality" approach is only amplified by the buyers' attitudes. I have several friends who were and are in the outsourced garment system, and whenever they had problems with quality, they had someone on the case IMMEDIATELY, and they either got the problem resolved or changed suppliers, no hesitation.

[@flinch622]

There is no QC in iso9000 land - only "assurance". They can fling paper at you all day long. A family member of mine mused about the problem years ago and said this: "it's a joke".

[@robertellison4691]

I had a few lobes destroyed on a couple of camshaft swaps that I performed on my 340 mopar engine back in the mid 2000's. I had swapped out camshafts before with no problem, then I had 2 wipe out the lobes. I then had another one that ran for a couple of years and then the lifter stopped rotating and wore a hole in the bottom of the lifter. Keep up the good work, Ken.

[@antoniovillanueva308]

Free advice is quite valuable. A transmission specialist, an amateur on a forum, and YT videos just saved me several hundred dollars. I had a transmission problem that left me stuck in the Arizona desert, between those three people I was able to do a repair that I would gladly have paid $800 for. It is right and I am sure that it is right. I had to walk a few miles for parts, but I drove off in the end.

[@Musclecarrevivals]

Ken, Shoutout to your KZbin channel!!! Your special on lifter failures was spot on and I’m glad someone reputable had the nerve to call a spade a spade. I’ve been building engines and working in auto machine for 25+ years not counting my solo hobbyists years. As you stated we used to install cams with new lifters (different dyno/stand engine power (hp/tq) combos to see what the newest hydraulic flat tappets would do or install directly in cars) and not flinch. Heck we never worried about breaking in the first 20 mins at least not in the 90. Break In back then was take it east for a few hundred miles and change the oil 1-2 times before 500 miles. “KISS” Good assembly lube, good quality oil “no zinc worries even until the early 2000s but especially the 80s and 90s” pre primed, if adjustable rockers watch your clearances and watch it rock n roll on the stand or in the car. Sad that we now have to cringe every time we start an engine and do what you mentioned like lighter springs, zinc oil and zinc additive, watch adjustments and let her get get oil splash to cam for 20 mins at 1800-2200 rpm’s and still have mediocre black Jack 52/48 odds with us on the 48 side. Also not to forget those odds with the above mentioned protocol “break-in protocol.” Doing it like we did 25-30 years would prob be 10-20% success especially with a modern fast ramp or aggressive cam. Shout out from CT Junior Ps. Sad a man of your experience and knowledge is a softer then spaghetti cast iron slinky flexible Rod poncho lover. Lol 😂 jk jk hahahaha All machinist kidding aside. I love me a well built poncho but I’m an Oldsmobile and a Mopar guy with a reputation for Oldsmobiles, but work on just about anything 60s-70s.

[@karlbaker1943]

I started building mostly Chysler engines in 80s 90s, I personally swapped the same cam and lifters into different blocks 3 times and it's still alive today!!

[@tenthousanddays2103]

I've been in the bz since 79, I've seen a few flat cams in my day. Recently I had a big block chev on the dyno, a stock replacement 375hp 396 cam, solid lifter. The valve lash kept increasing. Which usually doesn't happen. usually it will just take the lobe off of the cam and lash doesn't change. In this case the lobe remained and the bottom of the 5 lifters got chewed away. Like the lifter was softer than the cam. I've never seen that before. Ended up getting a nitrite hardened cam and EDM hole lifters and all was well.

[@Stevesbe]

How much metal went through out the motor?

[@msh6865]

Another QC problem with recent lifter batches was with incorrect lifter body diameters. They literally built them too small! So, the results was lifters rattling in the bores and eventually taking a can love out. It's just insane that QC has gotten to this point.

[@carls72dart]

100% agree! Thank you for speaking up about this

[@danburque7555]

I'm a machinist since 87 and I agree with you 💯 %. It happened to me. GM blamed me and refused to fix it. GM crate engine ZZ3.

[@superduty4556]

It's not the zinc, it's absolutely the metallurgy.

[@cakraft24]

Or both???

[@nextgen1939]

We have had a lot of them still. One engine ate 2 sets. On the third time we went back to old stock lifters and a old cam and all the problems went away.

[@lorenreyes2855]

I trust you Mr. Ellison! Thank you for sharing and your determination to find out what this is a big problem!

[@ryandaly3948]

I have been a heavy duty mechanic for 25 years, I worked with an old guy that built race engines on the side, he built alcohol carbs, like he took them apart, cut them apart and epoxied pieces back in, man was a genius. I worked with him building engines and we never had any cam/lifter failures, never took springs out to lessen spring loads etc, used off shelf oil. This is absolutely a quality issue!

[@closertothetruth9209]

ive seen this in a few youtubes, immeadiate failures, correct run in procedures, correct oil grade etc, we had milk with plastic fillers in it, gaskets and insulation that are abestos yet advertised asbestos free, weed killers that contain high levels of agent orange, work clothes that burn your skin due to the chemicals in the material they used formaldehyde as a fabric softener, it goes on and on and on .

[@mikemcleroy8265]

The Bible says in the last days, many people will lose the love of the truth, and I believe it. Look at all the signs around the world and tell me we’re NOT in the last days. This goes WAY beyond lifters, oil, or metallurgy. Better get right with the Most High!

[@jeffduncan6825]

Always good to hear from you looking forward to more videos I always find your experience is very helpful to solving problems

[@ronosga4391]

Everyone blames poor manufacturing quality, but look a little deeper and consider the quality of the raw materials used.

[@kellyfischer3062]

I agree with you as well, I use your lifter adjusting method and it works great every time. Thank you Ken.

[@alexheezen7160]

Hello Andrew, it can not be too hard to get the failed lifters hardness checked. This is the only way to get to the cause of the problem. Once you have established that the lifters aren't hard enough or of the wrong material, than you have a case against people that sell or produce them.

[@cammer68oliver2]

I’m studying aviation maintenance at Embry Riddle and they showed us a tool that does indeed measure the hardness of metals. So it indeed can be done

[@SOLDOZER]

Lots of shops done hardness test. Its not a hardness issue.

[@henrysmith8012]

​@@SOLDOZER correct. Lifters are not being ground properly.

[@davidkeeton6716]

When you started talking about building them a few decades ago and just threw em together and had no problems and now going through all the details and the cam and lifters are wiping out, I thought I was listening to myself. I lived it and am living it with a wiped out cam today.

[@kirkjones9639]

Would it be worth your time, to build a small Argon oven? You could then check the lifterrs when they come in. Disassemble the soft ones and heat treat them up to spec. It sounds like the unit of effort, might be worth it, if the problem is really wide spread.

[@gullreefclub]

Hardness is not just the only problem with hydraulic lifters is the machine tolerance of the internal bores are out of spec. Additionally camshaft designs with respect to the ramp have changed in the past few years to produce better horsepower and emissions numbers

[@VinnyMartello]

My Buick camshaft from TA performance wiped a lobe after 3000 miles. I used ZDP and 10w40 oil. Never went over 5000rpm.

[@alanwylie8960]

I'm a retired auto mechanic, and recently I've decided to build a SBC 350 engine that has some ump behind it to put in my old GMC K1500 4X4 truck, I was reading on various forums trying to get an idea for a good performance cam for a 88 350 TBI engine and I'd read people saying they had to take the inner valve spring out for breaking in a new cam, I thought to myself, why would you have to do that, when I've built many engines with new cams, both stock and high performance and I never had to remove the inner valve spring, nor did I have to use a special oil for camshaft and lifter breakin, I then started thinking to myself saying, they must be using the cheap Chinese made camshafts and lifters and then stamping them with the made in USA label so that they can sell them. I can remember throwing a fit back in the 60's into the 70's because most of the parts would say made in Japan, but at least I now know the Japanese products are far superior to the cheap Chinese labor and cheap Chinese metals and other products. We can all thank our communist Chinese bought and paid shit show present day Piglosi led Congress, the communist Chinese bought and paid fraudulent elect president Biden crime family shit show, along with their gestapo style federal government agencies and or departments that are protecting the organized criminal syndicate/mofia within D.C., yet they think the American people are too stupid to see what's going on, for which those who worship the far left globalist fake news mainstream media networks are stupid on steroids. All this Chinese junk coming to America started with Bill Clinton back in the 90's, along with the two NWO pushers both Bush presidents, followed with the illegal elect Kenyan president, and when President Donald J Trump came along and he tried to fix things within the USA, it was real easy to figure out who all the traitors were and still are within the USA, and even more so after the anti-American communist democrats theft of the 2020 election, when it was obvious that President Trump was easily winning and then everything was shut down on election night and the next morning Joe pedo Biden was the fraudulent elect president, and then by weeks end there was proof of voter fraud, illegal ballot harvesting, and the Dominion voting machines changing the vote to Biden, with Paul & Nanzi Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, Italy, Germany, along with communist China having a big hand in making the big steal happen with the change of vote on the electronic voting machines, that's when the traitors within the Republican party showed their true colors. The traitors within our government along with big pharma, the global elites, and communist China are trying to cripple and destroy our nation from within through various methods and or ways, not to mention mass genocide. The mainstream media is our enemy as well, and have been for over 50 to 60 years.

[@daveski4496]

Well said. I aggree.

[@josephpuchel6497]

Hey Mr. Ellison New subscriber I agree with you 100 percent. A vehicle warranty isn’t any good anymore because the manufacturers knows what their doing wrong. They will put out a TSP but no recalls unless people are seriously injured. Excellent video

[@jdhaase1417]

We had this problem 20 years ago. Freshened our Late Model engine, went thru all the proper break-in steps with pre-assembly lube, break-in springs, and proper RPM and our cam shaft came apart in the shop during the break-in period. We had some local connections with this manufacturer that’s in our town and they helped us out and confirmed we did everything correctly. They also told us that if anybody called with our same problem, because there were others with same problem, that their corporate office told them to shut the customer down.

[@stelitejet]

Interesting even over here in New Zealand I hear there's a issue with lifters... Glad I've had some put away for years for builds coming up 😬 great work keep up the great content.. Love your videos👍

[@closertothetruth9209]

Do you think its just modern oil quality lacking protective friction modifiers that they once had, but have been removed to meet emission standards, we dont hear of the lifter failures here in Au like there seems to be in the US.. just wondering if NZ and AU have tighter quality control , i remember a while back on the US news going on about knock off bearings yet i never heard anything here.

[@lochlanweichbrodt2852]

I'm surprised you guys don't make your own. Idk about Kiwi car culture, but I know the Aussies will literally get out a pair of tin snips and an English wheel and make a fender for a '59 Cadillac out of sheet metal they pulled out of the garage wall!😂

[@closertothetruth9209]

@@lochlanweichbrodt2852 yeh my cousin made fenders for xy falcons etc , i think he even sold some to rare spares years ago, not out of a tin shed wall though LOL.

[@keithross4511]

Great information. Thank you!

[@meric-bo-olson2115]

We just installed new Comp cam, lifters and valve springs in ford 351 w. (Mild 4x4 cam.) Installed only outer valve springs, primed oil pump, used their assembly lube. 25 minutes into the breakin, started hearing valve train racket. Pulled valve covers, 1 lifter totally collapsed. Others on their way. Damaged lifters and cam. Called Summit, told them what happed. They are giving me full credit towards a roller cam setup. Hopefully this new one works. It’s a lot work just to start over.🤷🏼

[@pookysdad4884]

Summit have always been super cool to deal with.

[@SOLDOZER]

Nobody is having issues with the Fords. So YOU did something wrong.

[@Ruthlsss]

Good video! Thanks for the info. I am in the same boat as some of these other guys. I got a 454 just about sealed up and ready to fire. Hope i got a good set. I have done a few in the past but never had a problem. I think someone else asked. Is there any way to check the hardness?

[@Stevesbe]

I have done many flat tapper cam /lifter break ins back in the 80s /90s .I hadn't done any till afew years ago a friend wanted a cam in his 79 vette motor only had 28000 original miles . We put a set of vortex heads and A hi energy comp cam ,broke the cam in and a few weeks later 2 lifters failed first cam/lifters I ever had a problem with.

[@squamnh]

you were well ahead of the curve on this one - your comment about lifters possibly not being hardened correctly... I think that's one of the things mentioned in the class action lawsuit against GM (Jan 2021)

[@socalltd]

I ordered from summit back in jun/jul 21 and got a comp cam w/lifters, rings and bearings for my Ford 351C. Ordered and shipped without issues or delay, about 4 days' time. Other items were in stock and feel I ordered just in time for this build.

[@mikemcleroy8265]

Cool to hear someone is building a Cleveland!

[@flyinnphilini3136]

You are correct, about the oil . I got 500 miles on my fresh Ford cologne 2.9 V6. Built it with zinc, chamfered all passage ways hard.glytaled & epoxed intake & block.running diesel in it.ported& polished intake w headers.hotter injectors.I set my new lifters (hyd/flat) 1 1/2 down.the thing runs like a scalded banshe

[@albertgaspar627]

this has been going on for years, as motor oil removed the Zinc because it ruined the cat cons. Most using diesel oil or zinc additive and the typical soft valve spring cured most of it. Uncle Tony's Garage channel had a problem with flat tappets on an LA engine before Covid, found out Advanced Auto simply took their returned lifter and handed it back to them (still had oil in it). Unfortunately he blew $1,000 on a roller cam setup rather than just grab a Magnum 318 replacement for far less dough. As for the "chinesium" stuff, we've been buying that crap from JC Whitney since the 1970's :) and some still debate whether to soak a hydraulic lifter in oil before installing or not.

[@GKOOable]

Zinc is correct

[@lloydporche4790]

Maybe you should do a hardness test then find out what the hardness is supposed to be if you ever find that out. I ran into that problem 20 years ago on drilling rig tools. When the pipe dies were not being heat treated they were too soft and they were wearing out because the company was just sending them through with no quality control. I had to test thousands of them and there was a big lawsuit!

[@paulf9459]

Funny you mentioned years ago. Back in the late 60's I changed cam's on two different motors in my cars. The first was a chevy 327 cu in. I used a Duntov 3/4 race cam, I dropped it in using the existing OEM hydraulic lifters, didn't know about 2000 rpm cam break-in. The other was a Ford 289 cu in, I used a Isky cam with HD hydraulic lifters, and no break-in. Both cars were daily drivers, street racing and 1/8 and 1/4 mile racing and never had a problem with either of them. I never used assembly lube only hand lubed the cam with motor oil. I used 10w-40 oil with a can of STP on every oil change. It's true back then they had more zinc and phosphorus in the oil, then it was reduce when they came out with catalytic convertors because high concentrations of both will destroy the cats.

[@gj91471]

High Zinc or ZDDP never guarantees lifter or cam lobe life. At best ZDDP is a 1960's technology. I use David Vizards Oil Exteme Break in Lube and Oil Extreme Concentrate at Every Oil Change in everything i own

[@mikekokomomike]

It used to be a Cardinal sin to mix up the lifters on a used camshaft lifter set. Then I seem to recall you could use a new set of lifters on a used cam provided that the toe of all the lobes were not wiped completely flat?

[@brianslaugh3029]

I started in a automotive machine shop in high school in 1980 we never did the whole brake in process that everyone tells you is a must do never had any cam failures so I agree with this gentleman totally 👍

[@Nudnik1]

I never did break in either. Industrial Marine engines.

[@supercuda1950]

You might as well throw China under the bus. I ran into this problem with r/c car parts. R/C manufacturers used to be all American owned and manufactured. Now the parts and cars are made in China and are junk. Parts used to never break break and cost more to replace. Luckily I had a good stash of replacement parts, but as the stash ran out and I had to use Chinese made parts, longevity suffered. At the same time, the price of the kits and parts went up. Previously, I never used break in valve springs. Often, newly assembled engines wouldn't start right up (180 out of time) and I would just crank and crank them. No failures. I recently found 2 cases of Valvoline Racing Oil and called Valvoline. The guy I talked to said it was like gold and to use it wisely as it was loaded with all the good stuff. Anything you buy from China is inferior to the previously America made products. Manufacturers sold out our good jobs to China to increase their profits. Now we are stuck because you can't get it anywhere else. Take what you can get because that's all there is!

[@VinnyMartello]

I have a brand new cam and lifters in my Buick 350. Chattered from day one. Ordered two more sets of lifters and hoping and praying my camshaft didn't shit the bed.

[@jimkillen1065]

Back then i used OES to coat the lifter and it seemed to help .I used to work for GM before i finally said enough and left to much warranty work and the pay . I used oil for diesel engines also like 15-50 mistic . I stiil have seen lifter failure thanks for the videos

[@johnpena9165]

Most of todays motor on oils lack zinc which protects wear inside of your engine especially wear the lifters contact the camshaft, to rectify this problem add a 12 ounce bottle of oil additive that contains zinc everytime you change your oil .

[@justanobserver530]

Wish I had seen this video a year ago. Lifter issues still persist. Rebuilt a Pontiac engine that made it through the breaking in with no issues. About 40- 50 miles on the engine I lost a Lifter, as in it stopped turning and obviously ground the Lifter. I had heard that cams are now "junk" but although the corresponding lobe was damaged it was clear that the cam would have been fine if it were not for the Lifter. Clearly that Lifter was not hardened . There is no other reason why it would make it through the break in and fail with only about maybe 2 hours of run time. Race oil was used by the way so it wasn't because of lack of zinc in the oil

[@MrStrollerisme]

I am not a machinist nor a pro engine builder. To that I build my own engines and use the best I can afford. But I am also a mopar nut. I source mopar performance stuff. No failures and stuff goes together and lasts. I have a 360 I built back in '07. I recently took it apart to reseal and see how it looked. The white stuff on the rod bearings was still there. I only use Valvoline 10-30 conventional and it kinda hard to find. Getting ready to build a 383.

[@dynodon100]

With all the new engines running with roller lifters there was no longer the need of ZDDP to be added to the oil . Run a flat tappet cam without it and you will have a wiped cam.You can get it at Summit TFS-94000 made by trick flow . Just ask Gary Wingfield , a VERY smart man .

[@dannywilliams9045]

Great info, I was about to purchase new hydraulic lifters, even though mine were new about 35k mile back when I had my 389 cid rebuilt. I saw your video on adjusting lash, excellent. I did post a question on that video page yesterday concerning adjusting lash when the lifters are still in the engine, and still have oil in them. Can the adjustment still be made, or do I need to remove the lifters and remove the oil before adjustments?

[@top5donktexasbuild309]

Please make more videos! I learn a lot from you! Thank you very much!

[@olallaeddy]

Im setting here with a 428 and a 390 al sealed up. Just cleaning and painting all the parts that go on the outside of the engine. Hope they break in fine. That would suck. Built them this winter and building engine run stand. My first short block builds.

[@RanManGarage]

So have you tested the hardness of any of the lifters? What's the minimum rockwell hardness that would be acceptable?

[@billhagerman4475]

Went through 2 sets of different major cam / lifter manufactures until i found a third set that partially work . Warm yes, cold no. All were hydraulic flat tappet , with each , having additional lube provisions for the cam. If i have to go to rollers, i may just go to an LS engine.

[@honesdalefuf6852]

Hey, I am one of the guys that used your lifter method, thanks first crank and start, no noise

[@morganbrantley9058]

I had comp cams lifter fail after my initial break in on my 1st 50 miles. I replaced and I'm doing a very easy 500 miles before I give hard throttle. Upto 300 miles and good so far. Pontiac 400. Lifter plunger sunk to bottom

[@onemoremisfit]

I am currently having a problem with hydraulic roller lifters I purchased from Comp Cams during spring of 2021. The engine is an LS1 5.3L truck engine, and was assembled and started for the first time in late summer 2021. The problem is lifter noise that sounds like excessive lash. The camshaft is a mild performance grind with a stock idle and .05" extra lift over stock. The lifters are upgraded to link bar style hydraulic rollers that do not use the stock LS plastic lifter trays. The heads were CNC ported, chambers polished and cc'd, valve seats re-cut all new valves, springs and rockers. Head gasket surfaces were re-milled. I don't know how much they were milled, my guess would be maybe .01" to .02" At first I thought the noise was because the push rod length was too short. I calculated the push rod length very carefully using 2 different methods and I came up with 7.300" as the correct length, so that was what I ordered along with the camshaft and lifters. I measured all the new push rods and they were ~ .002" over 7.300" in length. I figured this was allowed tolerance, since .002" is not enough to make or break a hydraulic lifter preload. So anyway, I thought I goofed on my length calculation and that was causing the noise, so I ordered the next length longer which was 7.350". I measured those and they were also ~ .002" over in length. Now with the 7.350" push rods, the lifters were quiet on cold start but gradually became noisy as the engine warmed up. At this point I had a long talk with a Comp Cams rep about methods to calculate push rod length. He also told me it was possible that the engine expanding on warmup was causing the heads to move away from the block and make the push rods effectively too short. Eventually I just said screw it, gimme the next length longer and I will just try them. So I ordered a set of push rods that were supposed to be 7.400" in length. When I got them I measured them and they were all + .02" except one that was 7.018" and one that was 7.017". I decided to install them as is, and the engine would not run. So at that point I knew I had exceeded the maximum push rod length for this engine. So then I made a pair of .03" thick shims to put under the rocker arm pedestals. This made the engine run fine, and I'm glad this turned out this way because at least I have now ruled out push rod length as the cause. And now with the engine running the longest possible push rods it can tolerate, it still has exactly the same problem. The valve train is acceptably quiet when cold and gradually becomes ridiculously noisy as the engine warms up. The Comp Cams rep said that link bar lifters and a performance cam profile cannot be as quiet as an OEM cam and lifters. I totally understand this, and this is not what is happening here. I am having lifter noise that is flipping ridiculous! I made 2 videos of the engine running so the Comp Cams rep could see and hear this for himself. The truck has a 100% stock exhaust installed, just so you can hear all the under hood noise more clearly. The videos are still on my YT channel if anybody is curious. The longer of the 2 videos is the engine from cold start, it will cost you 20 minutes of your life that you will never get back. The Comp Cams rep said it sounds like I need to replace the lifters, and they are out of stock and would take 2 months to obtain replacements. It has been almost 3 months and I am still waiting. The rep gave me an RA to return the old lifters, but said they will not grant any refund until after they inspect them. I personally believe the lifters have internal parts that are out of size tolerance, close enough to operate cold with straight 30 weight oil in summer, but they pump down when the oil warms up. There are 2 manufacturing defects in this situation that I have already verified. The first one was one of the lifters' outer body was not deburred. I discovered this when I dropped the lifters into their bores and one got stuck. It measured the correct OD size and was stuck on a burr that was not properly removed during manufacturing. I elected to deburr this lifter myself, clean it up and install it. Then the 2nd defect was a set of push rods that measured +.02" from the specified length. .002" isn't enough to make or break your preload, but .02" is. So now that I've seen 2 verified defects, I suspect there is a 3rd one.

[@SOLDOZER]

Sounds like pilot error to me...

[@rollydoucet8909]

We had a cam/lifter failure today after 5 minutes of break-in time on the dyno. We contacted the cam company, and after a few minutes of discussion, they basically told us we didn't follow proper procedure for successful cam & lifter break-in. We used their break-in lube on the cam lobes and lifters, we also used the 12 oz bottle of engine break-in oil additive that they sell and recommend. The oil we use is a high zinc content oil that we've had great success with ever since the zinc shortage issues of the late 1990s and early 2000s. Now, the cam company says that particular oil has been re-formulated and is not appropriate for engine break-in, and they suggest another product. This is our 51st year in business and I'm certain that the failure we experienced is due to cheap lifters made in China. A few of the lifters wore away and ate the cam lobes after a few short minutes.

[@Thirdgen83]

That is so typical. They always blame the customer.

[@rollydoucet8909]

@@Thirdgen83 The cam company was obviously in full "damage control" mode and the person on the phone was very abrupt and blamed us for the lifter failure. Later that very day, many other engine builders went on social media to report the same problem. In the future, we won't be buying parts from a certain COMPetition cam company if that's how they deal with a quality control issue.

[@Thirdgen83]

@@rollydoucet8909 Yeah, I won't buy from them ever again.

[@mikey3976]

I have experienced similar. New rebuild, 350 chevy, with one lifter collapsing Jan 2022 after 3 hours, and was lucky to not have cam damage. Replaced lifter and all well. Interesting point though, the old original lifters 150,000 miles were very stiff when bench testing against, new purchased lifter. Bought another brand lifter and it's internal spring was even stiffer. The failed collapsed lifter compressed way to easy. I now also notice leak down after parked for a while. Starting up they eventually get quiet. Thinking I will open it back up again and replace all lifters after inspecting cam. Wish I had a set of lifters from back in the day. So aggravating 🙄

[@alanwhite3280]

@@rollydoucet8909 lts not only the CO company, l had problems w/ a Cr company.. Purchased 2 sets of hyro flat lifters for 2 Ford FE's. Took several months for me to get to the engines. When l unboxed both sets they both were pitted, not surface rust but small crevices in 29 out of the 32. How old were the lifters? Called Cr. They told me l improperly stored the lifters in my garage. The only problem with that scenario is l live in the very arid low desert. The improper storage was on them. The lifters were sealed.

[@dondagy9109]

I agree with everything you say 100%. I grew up building cars with my dad, and my friends, and myself, and have worked at engine machine shops. And i agree with our techniques back then, were nothing like today when i put something together, and never had a failure. And same story, alrhough we kinda did break ins, but no removing springs, but also own an olds and used the same torque it down rockers and let it roll. And every last dead nuts thing you said i agree whole heartedly.

[@stevenbongiorno9277]

Hi. I’m currently using Rhoads lifters. I’ve used them before with good results. I’ve had a Comp cam wear prematurely. Even after using Mobile One, that I changed every year, after only driving a couple hundred miles a year. While I was rebuilding my engine, a couple years ago, I was told about the modern lifter problems. Someone compared the body of the lifters to sorta weed out the ones that were currently coming in from China. The Comp lifters looked a lot like the ones shown. Then I remembered using the Rhoads, and how well they performed, and got a set of them. They seem to be working fine with me now using the Valvoline VR1 racing oil.

[@Chevelle602]

You are a smart man. Rhodes lifters are old school and the way to go. Stay away from Comp China

[@SOLDOZER]

Comp lifters are made in the US.

[@donc6545]

Great information. I will be giving you a call for my 2013 Silverado 5.3. Cylinder 8 misfire after all the basic remedies. Looking for an expert opinion and DOD delete.

[@Stevesbe]

You should have done that a long time ago

[@Stevesbe]

DOD ruined an amazing long running engine

[@davidsenula3211]

hey Ken, is there any way to test lifters before installation? hope you see this.

[@kermets]

Yep i agree.....run a file across them or something.....

[@davidcollis4758]

In your humble opinion Sir, who makes the best flat tappet lifter? I am freshening up the 305 in my '87 Chevy Pick Up because the previous owner ran the engine with water in the engine oil and it shortened the life of the cam, rod, and main bearings. MY cam lobes and lifter bottoms are in great condition. However the second journal back from the front on the cam has excessive grooving. I just want to get the engine back together so I can drive the truck. In a couple of years I am going to install a 383 with a roller cam, which the short block is already complete. The problem is the truck has TBI, Throttle Body Injection. I want to do some more research on tuning a TBI with a mild roller cam and a set of Trick Flow 175 cylinder heads. I would like to keep the TBI even though most people don't like it. I also have a '95 Chevy Silverado that also has TBI and it runs so good. I don't mind spending the extra money on a set of good lifters. Thank You for all of your videos and insight. Hopefully soon we can get our standards up to where they were 20-30 years ago. MAGA!

[@fortyshooter1]

Have to agree. 50-60 years ago the OEM's didn't go thru cam break in with reduced pressure valve springs and they lived.

[@jayss10]

That’s definitely true but there is a very different variable in play as well. The cam lobes on many of these aftermarket hydraulic lifter cams are MUCH more aggressive than even the OE solid lifter cams of back in the day. Everything factors in and if any one component falls outside the tolerance for what it can handle you have a failure. Personally I don’t understand why anybody messes with flat tappet camshafts anymore for any type of build, but that’s off topic.

[@fortyshooter1]

@@jayss10 I know with the 1970 426 street hemi and the 69-70 440 6 pack engines that used the street hemi valve springs they put a special taper on the cam lobes to help with lifter cam lobe wear. Yes race type flat tappet cams and later street/strip cams did have aggressive ramps. The cheater stocker cams were not recommended for street at all. Nothing wrong with a stock type flat tappet cam if you want to restore a 60-70 muscle car engine to correct specs. Just use GOOD parts if you can find them.

[@jerrybrown5291]

I have a 4.3 tbi w/balance shaft, roller motor complete rebuild. Stock cam bored 0.40. Bad idle running very rich at idle missing surging etc and has a rattle in it worse when hot. Kinda sounds like a rotating rattle not a knock. Pulled a valve cover cranked and run and all seems ok. Only seeing half the idle vacume reading (7 to 8 inches.) Runs great at cruzing speeds. Plenty power oil pressure is awesome at any rpm. Guy built motor giving me the slip unfortunately. Wondering if you would have an educated onion on it. You will not be held to what you say as a diagnosis only an idea. Thanks Jerry

[@Just1Spark]

Same thing happening with roller lifters also. Talked to my local dealership. Any 2022 silverado they get in, has to have the lifters changed before it hits the lot.

[@SOLDOZER]

News to me. And my family owns 3 GM dealerships. In other words, you are full of bull shat.

[@Just1Spark]

lol DO NOT shop at this guys dealerships.

[@m3rk201]

Todays Oils have great reduction of zinc and phosphorus.. Also wonder if there phasing out combustion engines by making them fail left n right with shitty parts..

[@JAMESWUERTELE]

Try some Archoil 9100, I use it in every motor I got 7.3 powerstroke, 2, 1GR-FE 4Runners, my Honda 1000RR with wet clutches, snowblower, lawnmower all of it.

[@geneyusko5975]

Great video on valve adjustment 👍

[@jackieliner3812]

Thanks, ive seen that valve lash adjustment video, I did that on my brothers 383 sbc, works great.

[@scotcoon1186]

Uncle Tony's Garage had a bunch of people claim they haven't made a new flat tappet lifter since everyone went to roller cams. They just keep machining the crown and sending them back out. He had one on a slant 6 that would bleed off in under 5 minutes. Punched the rod through the rocker after a few passes.

[@notme810]

I have said it for 25 years! Thank you! 🙏

[@hemisidetrack2767]

You have convinced me to go with roller. Thanks for the information 😊

[@fragman21]

I went retro roller from Howards on my last build. other than cost I really have no complaints.

[@superduty4556]

@@fragman21 so damn expensive now. Like 500 a set

[@fragman21]

@@superduty4556 totally agree. very expensive but and I do mean a big but, after breaking the engine in {500 miles on 5w30 walmart brand oil I used Pennzoil platinum 0w40 for 5000 miles. changed oil which looked like it was put in yesterday. I took two oil samples for analyst . one went to my machinist Greg Keel " Bogies Machine Shop , and the other went to black stock. no signs of wear. Blackstock says it's ok for another 4k! 4000 miles! thats crazy from a SBC with a 500 lift cam!

[@ClaremontClassicGarage]

Exactly. We used to stick in Crane Fireballs and Mopar 284/484s after work. Break in was about 30 seconds and see you later. never a problem. Everything in 2022 is JUNK.

[@c103110a]

I NEVER knew that you should break in a cam as a kid. All we did was slap one in and make sure we varied the RPM while driving it for the first week. Worked fine!

[@markwoten6679]

Ok. I got a 79 F150 302 that I’m doing an needed overhaul on. Yes! It has hydraulic flat tappets. Never had an issue with either the cam or tappets. Could these tappets be disassembled and cleaned? I know exactly which cylinder each came out of. If no, what tappets do you recommend in 2023? My engine is not built to operate with hydraulic roller tappets without a special kit.

[@dalelithgow]

2024 and a comp cam lifter kit just are 3 lifters during break in and now engine needs overhauled!

[@outlawofga]

We've seen around 9 cams fail over the last 2 1/2 years...2. I personally ran in on my Run in Stand. Break-in oil. Plenty of lube on cam and lifters. This is a manufacturing error. I haven't seen this many losses in the 45 years I've been doing this... smh...It's really irritating to say the least

[@danmurphy7713]

bleed down ,on my 2nd set. Melling cam and lifters. I use Valvoline 20/50 high zinc race oil 67 429 Cadillac No lash adjustment. Never had this issue back in the day .

[@7CAJONEZ]

Never had any problems with any of my old cars. Studebaker V8 and six, air cooled VW, 65 GMC V6, 65 Toyota Landcruiser, 69 Chrysler slant six. What do they all have in common? Solid lifters, adjustable rocker arms. 65 Corvette 327 had 365 hp and solid lifters. If you can find them they would be NOS or can be recrowned.

[@blueduster74]

I nitrided my cam but have battled bleed down issues below 25 psi. Changing to a HV oil pump fixed it. But I’m still swapping to rollers soon.

[@barrykennedy9947]

Can you imagine the millions of dollars if not billions, worth of engines that have been filled with metal and had to be rebuilt from this problem. I agree with you. People didn't forget how to build engines,

[@j.d.b.pennamesonofharraant3367]

Listening ... Here to learn

[@doughopkinsjr]

November 2022 put a flat tappet hydraulic cam in. Before break in was done had 1 ticking. Crane cams I will throw them under the bus. Been putting engines together for 25+ years and never put a roller in. Now I have put a roller in. I have the bad lifters and the edges are chipping. I removed inner springs. Cam looked flat to me edge to edge. I use lucas hot rod oil 20-50 and added extra zddp. I will never use a flat tappet again and I know rollers are more expensive but it's cheaper In the long run. Heed my warning.

[@robormiston2841]

I agree on oil additive. They found weak springs from china in the lifters in the newer Corvettes. Like in 2012 and loads were failing. And it was that weak spring in the lifters.

[@wesleycook3181]

ive seen gen 3 hemi and LS engines with wiped lobes from defective roller lifters that came apart

[@ratchetrdz9113]

HEY KEN WHAT WORK SHOES ARE THE ONES YOU GOT ON? THEY LOOK COMFORTABLE BEEN LOOKING FOR SOME GOOD ONES, GREAT VID SAME HERE WITH THE LIFTER ISSUSE, I KNOW GM IS ON A LAWSUIT

[@joshualymer6568]

So would it be safe to say if I have a ford 460 that I want to install a more aggressive cam would it be ok to send off my stock cam and lifters to a cam regrind shop and have the cam reground and the lifters refinished and just install a longer push rod?

[@jamesdodson9417]

Agreed 100 % this goes back to 2008-09ish Same goes for bearings also we kept having a lot of come backs and all bearing manufacturers were not putting grease inside the sealed bearings. Jeep Liberties had really bad lifter problems same goes with Chevy not to mention all the lifter failures we had with Harleys we also had a lifter shortage back in 2010 I believe it makes really good mechanics look bad and a lot of businesses too . Oh not to through amsoil under the bus but it would wipe out the crank on a Harley with the quickness. It did work good as a cutting fluid on the lathe . Oh soft valve seats I’m going to stop . Thanks for the wisdom man.

[@thomassuhadolnik8027]

Your 100% right on the no grease I came to the conclusion that the more the part cost the more grease it has in it LOL

[@pookysdad4884]

Have you tried out the Crower Cam Saver lifters that are in the Summit catalog? The Race versions have a super hard face and an EDM oil hole on the face. I'd love to know if those work. And how about Rhoads lifters? Finally, as a builder, is there a way to test the Rockwell hardness # on a lifter face, without damaging it?

[@Ever443]

Have used them, they are better but we have lost some of them as well. They seem to chip at the edm hole, and that creates some issue.

[@jimmattingly4234]

I am with you I been building engines for 40 + years and last 2 -3 I been using roller

[@dezford5408]

Thank you for this info , how do I know the roller lifter wheel is hardened? If they're cutting corners on the flat tappets why wouldn't they do it on the roller kits.

[@NBSV1]

As long as it rolls it isn’t as critical for the roller to be really hard. Since it’s rolling there’s much less friction and it doesn’t have much of a chance to dig in. With a flat lifter if it’s soft then the cam can dig in and it’ll chew it up really quick.

[@sameyeam5277]

My 400sbc started making noise right after I put it in. Cylinder 8 and maybe 6. I will start my disassembly this week. I have a 21 Ford with the 7.3 and I am hearing lifter failure videos. Damned if I do damned if I don’t.

[@rantsrus8203]

Bingo, 21 gmc sierra in shop now. I drove the sob back up there.