Catalytic vs Non-Catalytic Wood stoves (Which one is better?)

[@coachtim6188]

Fun fact. Burning pine indoors is not a problem. Of course many many old timers have always known this and have been getting cheap pine for firewood that nobody else wanted. The University of Georgia did a study on burning different types of wood in fireplaces and wood stoves. The findings were incredible, that pine does not put out any more soot or create more creosote than hardwood. In fact, hardwood can actually produces more. Pretty insane considering conventional wisdom, a.k.a urban myths, has always said the opposite. The only thing to make certain of is that each has been seasoned to less than 20% moisture content. It is believed that the old wive's tale originated from people burning it after seasoning it the same amount of time as the hardwood and began to get buildup therefore assuming the problem was the type of wood. The problem never was the wood but rather the time spent letting it season. Pine takes twice as long to get it below 20% than does hardwood. Pine burns much quicker and doesn't create many embers. So as these wise old timers have always known, it has its place in the firewood lineup. It's great for starting a fire. It's great to initially get a wood stove up to high temp quickly. It's great to fire back up a stove that has gotten cooler. When using it as starter wood, follow with hardwood for more longevity. Imagine the tons of pine that can be gotten so cheaply. These old timers are not liking their secret getting out. :)

[@embersliving]

Nice! thats great information! thank you.

[@Darthdoodoo]

There are many people around the world that live in dense forests of nothing but pine and other conifers. You just pay attention and only burn good dry wood and check your chimney often

[@brockbaker3able]

Love pine. Seasons fast and good for when I’m off work and able to freed the stove more. I’ve never had an issue with creosote with pine.

[@timbjork2098]

@@brockbaker3able he said pine takes 2 times longer to properly season so to say it seasons fast is not correct.

[@SpoonerTuner]

Pine is pretty much the only wood we have available here in northern Idaho. Burns just fine as long as it's seasoned and dry.

[@nmknmk2371]

Removed a section in my camper where the entertainment area is and installed. Works great. Instead of propane furnace heat, I can use this kzbin.infoUgkxATHBlMJwipGgVWseuAFKvDQ_5R4_lywo to heat the camper as long as it's hooked up to shore power. Only thing I do not like is there does not seem to be a thermostat. I'm presuming it has a built-in one so it does not overheat. Really like all the other color options it has to offer.

[@dipstick5869]

The 2" thick by 6" in diameter round catalytic converter on my 40 year old consolidated dutchwest by Vermont Castings is made of a honeycomb, hard clay like material. The maintenance requires rinsing and saoking with warm water once per season. My first converter lasted approximately 25 years before small pieces of the material degraded and began breaking off. After the temperature in the pin thermometer that fits into the steel plate above the converter reached 500° I closed the damper and diverted all of the exhaust through the converter. I call it cracking the smoke to clean it up. You can go outside at this time checking the stack and see that there will be very little to NO smoke coming out. Granted, we don't have Severe winter's here in Louisiana, but many cords of wood have gone through this stove and converter over the years! Absolutely Love it!!😉

[@embersliving]

thats awesome. Many people ask how to clean and how often. Thanks for the responce.

[@dipstick5869]

@@embersliving Once a year I'll get on the roof and pull the stainless cap off the stack and drop a 6" wire bottle brush weighted with a 6 lb mall head down through the stack with 28ft of rope. The only resistance for me is going through the triple wall piping, the single wall is not as tight. After 3 passes I go inside, open the top damper and pull the carbon pieces into the stove dropping to the ash pan (approx 2-3 cups of carbon. All vents are closed and no dust goes into the house during the brushing. We Must use Well seasoned wood, especially if you like to burn a cooler fire at times and have a tall vent stack! Unseasoned wood, burning cool fires means build up in the stack, creating a fire hazard. I burned some slightly seasoned RED oak one year and inspected a few 6 ft sections of the single wall piping because I didn't have much carbon accumulation after brushing. I found an 8th of an inch of smooth, hard, carmelized coating throughout the piping. Couldn't remove it with a metal scraper, so I replaced all of the 6" stack. I have 26 ft total stack and I must burn very seasoned Oak. Shorter run of stack should result in less coaking.

[@brandonwright406]

I'm new to the industry having just started in a hearth store 3 months ago. I just wanted to say I've been watching your videos ever since I started and you've really helped me in learning a lot of useful information. Also, I got more excited than necessary when Mr. Knowitall made another appearance haha. Keep up the awesome work.

[@embersliving]

hahah! Thanks for watching

[@jbetz78]

Trevor, Don’t for to mention the value of seeing flames in your stove. Cat stoves when up to temp (activated) typically won’t have as many flames as a non-cat stove will. I ultimately chose a non-cat stove because I wanted to see active flames and 10 hour burn times with re-burn tubes were plenty good. Loved the mr.know it all skit. ! keep it up

[@embersliving]

Very good point! Haha thank you!

[@appleaday9876]

What stove did you go with?

[@embersliving]

@@appleaday9876 we are putting a Vermont casting in the showroom video coming soon

[@appleaday9876]

Thanks for the update. Curious what your feedback has been from customers on the noncat Dauntless. I like it but the reviews I've read online are very mixed.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

I have nominated this vid for an Emmy. thanks

[@trcass1]

great segment sir. you clearly explained the difference between CAT stoves and secondary burn stoves. I've been burning wood in my current house for over 25 years. I had a CAT stove from Consolidated Dutchwest that was ok but i didn't like it and got some secondary burn stoves. I currently have a Jotul F3CB upstairs in 1100 square ranch and a Pacific Energy Summit in the full basement. Both have served me well in southern Maryland. Most of the time my Jotul does the job. During this last cold snap and snow, i had to fire up the Summit. Key to any of them is using dry, seasoned wood. thanks for sharing.

[@embersliving]

Im glad our video helped you!

[@MrJChave]

Catalytic is the best!! My Blaze king princes heats my 1600sq house all day with 4-5 16"x8 logs for 16 hours. And still have plenty ambers to get it going again! Combuster still working great after 6 years. All I donis brush the front and shop vac. Key is gettit plenty hot before engaging it.

[@StudioRV8]

The precious metals on the combustor lower the burning temperature of smoke from around 1100F to 500F so it can burn. They work great provided you take care when using them. I've done so for 30+ years and really like them.

[@embersliving]

awesome!

[@lordmarshall5239]

How about over time as the stove cools down, is it going under 500 degrees and not working properly? I’ve gotten coal base 12 hours but the stove doesn’t seem very hot. What about the air intake and the spring inside? My stove is old and I think it needs replacement. Any help on this would be appreciated thanks.

[@StudioRV8]

@@lordmarshall5239 What stove do you have?

[@lordmarshall5239]

@@StudioRV8 I have a1987 I believe, Intrepid 2

[@StudioRV8]

@@lordmarshall5239 Tough to say with a 30+ year old stove w/out seeing it. The new Intrepids are flex burn and work with or w/out the cat combuster. Not sure what they used then. I think they were all cat stoves. I'd start with the manual and exploded parts diagram and make sure everything is working properly. If you need a new combustor, I'm sure you could buy one. I was able to find the manual for a 1990 Intrepid 2 online. KZbin won't let me post a link, but I'll try to put everything by the http in the next replay to see if that works.

[@tomconnors6310]

Thanks for the education of the cast and steel stoves and the burn systems. This is very helpful . Ottawa Ontario Canada

[@embersliving]

Our pleasure!

[@kerry8553]

Cheers for this, very informative. We installed a catalyst wood burner 12 months ago and very impressed with it compared to the old wood burner.

[@embersliving]

Thanks for watching!

[@bayside6207]

Have fun repairing your catalytic combustor. High/costly fail rate on those. Reburn much better=less potential of failure.

[@kerry8553]

@Bayside where having lots of fun.... burning half the amount of wood , been 2 winters now and catalyst still performing very well. Absolutely amazing.

[@jakeypainstone7342]

The science that you don't understand behind the catalyst, is that the precious metal platinum in the honeycomb catalyst, lowers the burning temperature of smoke, allowing it to be re-burned👍

[@markbell2780]

Best video I've seen so far on the differences between the two types. Thank you!

[@embersliving]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jeaniemcdonald1301]

Thank you so much for your explanation between the two. You have helped us in picking the type of stove we would need. We will probably go with the non-catalytic rear venting through our fireplace. Again, thanks.

[@embersliving]

nice! Thanks for watching.

[@gweedomurray9923]

If having a Cat stove "requires" a pro to clean the Cat then that makes it a no brainer. Why not a tutorial on how to properly clean the element ?

[@embersliving]

@@gweedomurray9923 Well if you burn properly you shouldn't have to worry. We actually recommend having a back up.

[@hyzercreek]

@@gweedomurray9923 It gets covered with carbon and nothing dissolves carbon. I don't know how to clean carbon without scrubbing off the platinum.

[@gweedomurray9923]

@@embersliving ~ I have seen enough on the Cat stoves to know that you need to get a minimum of 500 degrees F. before turning the valve to allow the exhaust through the converter or else you just deposit crud and so block any catalyst action. Install a pyrometer or use the handheld infrared temp reader tool. Harbor Freight has them for $20 or thereabouts.

[@mdocod]

I appreciate having both technologies in my Hearthstone stove. While heating up the stove from cold or after reloading fuel, secondary combustion burns vigorously, producing very clean thorough combustion at high throttle angles and higher combustion rates. Once things are heated up, engage the catalyst and choke it down. The fire can settle into lazyer flames and smoldering, letting the catalyst perform the combustion downstream. This helps separate the combustion from the fuel, providing a slower burn rate. I routinely find a warm stove 12-16 hours after the last reload with coals for a relight. Sometimes even longer. The most impressive part of that, is that I'm burning trashy low density ponderosa. I can only imagine what hardwood would do in this stove. Probably would be capable of 20-24 hour burn cycles.

[@embersliving]

Thanks for the insightful comment on the hearthstone! That is one of our favs.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

I am looking at a Hearthstone Heritage. How do you like yours? Any issues with it? I’ve read some really great reviews and some not so good. I went up to my local dealership today here in upstate New York and it’s a beautiful stove!

[@mdocod]

​@@MDR-hn2yz Had some leaks in the top stones that I resealed with refractory cement. I think the top stones on a lot of these aren't sealed great from the factory or are jostled loose in transport. After that easy repair the stove has been perfect. Ours is the Mansfield, which is similar to the heritage, just a slightly larger, more "square" firebox. It takes wood N/S or E/W from the front door, which works great for our corner-install application. It's a complicated stove made from lots of separate pieces. Combines the beauty of a cast iron stove and a stone stove. If you decide to buy a stove like this, go into it with the level of "respect" that the reality of it deserves. This is both a wood stove and a piece of art. It's not going to be as utilitarian as a welded steel stove. Treat it with care and it will treat you to beautiful fires and soft warmth that lasts many hours after the flames have gone out. We absolutely love it. Going into our 4th season with it and I have 4 cords of very dry wood split and stacked and ready to go, and another 8 cords that I have almost finished splitting that we'll use in future years. (We burn ~3 cords a season). I think the mixed reviews are "fair" all around. These stoves aren't for everyone. If you take the time to really read the manual and learn the proper startup procedure and pre-heating procedure, and follow the recommendations in the manual for daily "high-burns" to help keep the catalyst clean and properly get the catalyst going, you'll get really great results from the stove. If you just want a box you can burn in any ole way you want, you'll be better served with a non-cat stove.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

@@mdocod thanks for the reply.

[@bubbsy2002]

I have gotten 25hr burn time out of BK Sirocco 20.2, using skid wood last 2 years, stove paid for!

[@embersliving]

cool

[@colleenthomas353]

Many years back we had a cat stove and all tho we burned only dry hard wood we had moisture problems in the chimney. Yes we would follow the procedure to the letter and had a triple wall chimney and did get much longer burn times we (and the dealer) could not resolve the moisture issue. When we moved into another house we put in a cast iron box stove and it worked so much better.

[@embersliving]

cool

[@bayside6207]

Much better and much cooler.

[@Lecon60]

That was a great demo on the catalytic screen. I currently have a secondary burner. I'm going to switch.

[@embersliving]

Nice!

[@nicholasbaker2904]

We got a new reburn stove at our cabin 2 yrs ago. The old one leaked air and went thru alot of wood. The new reburn is so worth the cost up front. After a full week there is less than a hand full of ash in the pan and can go 2 hrs on one log. I tell everyone before they buy a cheap used stove off marketplace and new reburn is really worth the money.

[@embersliving]

yes I agree

[@bayside6207]

Nothing cheap about the stove I purchased off of Marketplace. Lopi Endeavor is a High-end quality stove. The Lopi was very well maintained by the original owner. I only paid $600 for a high-end well taken care of wood stove that's going to outlive me and the Next Generation who owns it. Only differences, I was Smarter with my purchase by me purchasing a high-end quality wood stove at a fraction of the cost= having 🧠's

[@nicholasbaker2904]

@@bayside6207 by cheap I meant a 30yr old rusted barn stove for $200. If I could get a newer reburn stove for cheaper than new 100% jump on it.

[@zsoltkarner2698]

Great video, thank you ! Just one taught... I have a Blaze King ( King model ) catalytic stove in my living room in the past 6 years, works just great ! The manufacturer calls for 42 hours of burning time, never ever had that, it keeps the fire overnight, hot ashes for about 24 hours, good enough. I always clean the combustor with a wire brush, with a horizontal left and right motion. Only the surface collecting shut, not the inside of the combustor, therefore NOT trying to get the wires inside. The stove puts out a lot of heat, nothing has changed in the past 6 years.

[@embersliving]

nice feedback

[@brookec.9039]

42 hrs..? Maybe if you drop a 40 lb log on a small hot coal. Lol

[@watchthe1369]

The secondary/ reburn system runs on the volatile organics. It needs to be HOT, and have air. You can run simple engines (old carbureted ones) on the volatile organics. You do have to manage the extra air on the stoves so the secondary burn works efficiently. I like the simple second chamber air tube/ injector system that is simple to maintain.

[@embersliving]

Nice !

[@oldyellerschannel4676]

If you are really "off grid", you aren't going to be able to find someone to clean that Catalytic Converter. For "survival purposes" (Zombie Apocalypse) the best wood stove, would be the one that requires the least amount of maintenance, and maintenance you can do yourself, as well as something that doesn't need high tech technology, and the mining of precious metals, in order to work. I'll take the secondary reburn system. This was very informative! Thanks!

[@embersliving]

I'm glad you liked the video Old Yeller! We recommend you have two Catalytic Converters. So long you do clean burns the converters can be used for a long time. In a zombie attack however I think you're right about the re burn system!

[@liberalezzz]

Excellent video missing from the market previously.

[@embersliving]

Thank you!

[@paolomoreira2961]

NO DISRESPECT BUT I SAW THIS VIDEO JUST CAUSE YOU ARE SOOOO ATTRACTIVE ❤

[@embersliving]

Thanks for watching be sure to subscribe

[@Alex_Janito23]

Figured id share this. Catalytic converters (in cars atleast) can stay Hot for hours like campfire coals. Ive worked on cars that sat for 2 hours and gotten burned by the cat converters. They definitely hold heat very very well

[@embersliving]

yes that is true!

[@sissymurphy9620]

My father always taught me to stuff some paper up the flew pipe and light it so it could not draft the heat up the chimney but that was with both a traditional fireplace and a pot belly stove

[@embersliving]

interesting

[@panan7777]

@@embersliving Not really. I have been using propane torch to heat the chimney and insides, for 1-2 minutes, then lighting the wood, arranged for top down burning. I wonder which producer would ever think of this, because a small hole in the door would come very handy for propane torch. The draft is way better and wood ignites smokeless in 40-60 seconds. One standard bottle can be used in a single season.

[@timothythompson4036]

Excellent video. Very few people know about this.

[@embersliving]

Right! Just trying to share the knowledge. Thanks for watching!

[@ronpage101]

Earth stove's have worked for me. Mine is 30 yrs old, and there is always hot coals in the morning. We live at 5000feet so it stays cold all winter.

[@embersliving]

nice!

[@bayside6207]

I live at 7,500ft mountainous Terrain Northern New Mexico= Lopi Endeavor.

[@andrewsolano9172]

@@bayside6207 my whole family and rez is in new mexico......wood stoves are way of life there summers are spent obtaining wood for winter

[@smetzgerful]

The “high efficiency” don’t mean heat output efficiency, they mean burn efficiency. They increase burn efficiency by allowing more air (oxygen) into the fire which means less particulates up the chimney because the fire is hotter and burns faster. This means a hotter fire with shorter burn time. The only way to extend your burn time is to choke off air supply to the fire. This is done by adding a second damper in your chimney above the stove. You need to control air flow in and “out” of the stove. Yes, this will send more particulates (smoke) up the chimney and also blacken the inside of your glass until air flow is increased to create a hot fire then it burns off and becomes clear glass again.

[@embersliving]

nice tip

[@smetzgerful]

@@embersliving A flameless fire will smoulder and send particulates (smoke) up the chimney. Maximum efficiency is achieved by adjusting the air flow to the point where you have small intermittent flames. As soon as you have a flame, all the smoke disappears. The flame does the same thing as the catalytic convertor. Long, slow overnight burns require a certain amount of smouldering unfortunately but remember that smoke is only a problem if it’s blowing in your face or if you have a smog problem in your area. A tree that falls and decays releases the same amount of carbon as if that tree was burned. People need to study the Carbon Cycle.

[@robertm5969]

There are many ways to increase burn times, some of which can be done while maintaining an efficient burn. It also depends greatly on the type of unit you have and what you're able to control. The trick is to load up the firebox while lowering the intake air to the minimum needed to achieve an efficient burn. Thicker pieces or pieces that are obstructed from the air inlet by other pieces will take much longer to burn through.

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

I have a few questions. 1. average cost of a catalytic converter? 2.Are the cats a standard size that they would be attainable after the manufacturer goes out of business? 3.The bypass must evidently be open until it is 500 degrees on startup, does that also mean someone has to open the bypass as the fire burns down below 500 degrees or can you just leave the fire burn out if you go away? Thank you

[@pauldonathan5316]

You leave the catalytic on until you add more wood or wake up in the morning and add more wood

[@embersliving]

I would say they are 400-500. I would also buy from a reputable brand that. has been around for years, so you will not have to worry about this

[@martinuso7446]

it wont function under 500 as they clearly say. So the whole effect of the catalytic converter is only that the burn is slower and more clean for the amount of time its above 500. Under 500 the burn is only slower with less heat and more pollution because the catalyst is not working anymore compared to a secondary burner stove which burns hotter and cleaner but for a shorter time. Remember, there is just so much energy in a piece of wood.

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

@@martinuso7446 So then why must it be bypassed on start up?

[@martinuso7446]

@@anthonyspadafora1384 I guess to create enough pull. No idea why else. The whole thing feels like sales talk to me. Makes it interesting for some people. The best way to burn wood and get a so complete possible burn of the wood and its gasses is at the highest temperature possible in the burn chamber and in the pipe and with all the oxygen it needs to do that. The only stove that does that is the rocket stove. That's also the reason they put mass around it so you collect the excess heat.

[@thur1042]

I had a catalytic stove - Vermont castings Defiant Encore 1987. I loved it, but he's right, you have to babysit it. Personally, I want a long burn time for night time, and if I need to close the damper to activate the catalytic stove a half hour after I stack the stove, and turn the air down another half hour after that, that essentially removes an hour of time that it can operate while I sleep. I'm buying a non-catalytic soon. Also, his statement about shortening burn times after cleaning a catalyst is inaccurate. The burn times went down for Mr Knowitall because he removed the catalyst, not because he cleaned it incorrectly. Even if your catalyst doesn't work properly - leave it in and it can still function as a damper and keep the long burn times (you just won't get the heat from the secondary burn).

[@embersliving]

great feedback!

[@markfcoble]

Catalytic is more expensive to maintain. That's one reason I didn't get one. Secondary reburn works fine for us. Keeps heat 12 hours easily. EPA stove compliant, no problem. Not using outside air directly just inside ground air, works fine. Catalytic is more costly upfront as well.

[@embersliving]

good feedback

[@safffff1000]

$300 cat last 6 yr, I know that sounds expensive, saves several cords a season

[@robertelias3431]

Excellent review on both types. Thank you.

[@embersliving]

Thanks for watching!

[@tonyt7372]

Thank you so much for your videos. Very professional.

[@embersliving]

Glad you like them!

[@id104335409]

Which video is about that fireplace in the background? It looks very pretty. Magical really.

[@embersliving]

search our KZbin for netzero water place. We also sell a similar one called dimplex optimyst

[@id104335409]

@@embersliving thanks!

[@masonstansberry2625]

I’ll support your channel because your from my home state

[@embersliving]

nice!

[@MDR-hn2yz]

Great video.

[@embersliving]

Thank you!

[@michelgoulet7538]

The missing information here, and the reason why Im still debating between the cat vs the non-cat system is that its well documented that cat will last 1200 - 1400 hrs before needing replacement, if used properly. That's only about 5 years worth of use (in Canada)! Considering the set of cats being a $1000 dollars CAD (for the Earthstone GM-60) I can only guess that all the savings from burning less wood (110$/cord) just burned to smoke.. I dont want a cat system if it wont allow me some savings. Nice graph, but how much less wood does it burns? The question remains..

[@embersliving]

Alright, let’s settle the debate between catalytic and non-catalytic wood stoves! Catalytic stoves? Yeah, they’re more efficient - about 10-15% better. That means you’ll burn 15-30% less wood - like 1 or 2 cords saved a year. But here’s the catch: the catalyst inside wears out in about 5 years, and replacing it could cost you $1,000 CAD. Ouch. Now, if a cord of wood costs $110, and you save 2 cords a year? That’s $220 saved. But if you’re only saving 1 cord or less? The savings basically go up in smoke. So, here’s the bottom line: If you need constant heat all winter, a catalytic stove might pay off. But if you only burn fires here and there or don’t want to deal with replacing parts, a non-catalytic stove might be the smarter move. Less maintenance, still gets the job done.

[@denverbasshead]

The fact I can make my own re-burn tubes if needed makes it a no brainer for me. My 9-10 hours is plenty long for a night burn. 77% efficient is enough lol

[@embersliving]

good to know!

[@kterlau1036]

Great program my friend. Be well.

[@embersliving]

thanks for watching

[@reallywontsufferfools1620]

can you explain if timber has 1 ton 5klw of heat per hr e.g. and you burn that one ton over 5 hrs are you not getting 1 klw of heat per hr. which in most homes would not heat home?

[@davekauffman8727]

The combuster uses platinum, not silver, silver has a much lower melting temperature. It really is only used to clean up the wood gas that isn't being burned by the fire because the damper is almost closed to limit the burn rate.

[@embersliving]

Thanks for letting us know

[@HOBrian2003]

Great information!

[@embersliving]

Glad it was helpful!

[@crayrat1]

I grew up with stoves older than I {I'm 58 now} they had air intake that screwed shut they seemed almost air tight never had a problem with then while away/sleeping this is what I am looking for my camp I am building... can you show me why and prove to me why I would want a newer EPA approved stove???

[@SpoonerTuner]

Very helpful video. Thank you

[@embersliving]

Glad it was helpful!

[@chazanderson4532]

Hey so how does a hybrid stack up vs a fully reburn or a fully Catalytic in terms of burn times? Im thinking about getting one for my house but work shifts and am gone for 14 hours a day so need that long burn times to keep it from being too hard to restart.

[@embersliving]

Id persoanlly say go for the hearthstone hybrid with soapstone. the soapstone will keep the wood stove hotter longer

[@trudeauphobicmooseater7263]

Thanks Trevor for the informative videos. My biggest beaf with Cat stoves, is their apparent sensitivity to burning light garbage. Having a woodstove in the vicinity of your kitchen & being able to burn light waist can be a real plus. It would be good to know from the folks that manufactures these Cats, exactly just what refuse can be incinerated without compromising the cubes?

[@embersliving]

I never knew people did that. Yeah, be careful what you burn.

[@hyzercreek]

@@embersliving I had a pot belly stove once and I burned everything, Banana peels, plastic, even beer cans (they burn) and most of my garbage.

[@embersliving]

@@hyzercreek probably not the best for the environment

[@safffff1000]

Blaze King says absolutely no garbage or even glossy newspaper

[@ericlawrence9060]

Hi! What are those flames that are open on the tables. They look like decorative things... lights or something???

[@embersliving]

Netzero water place .kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKaQoYeCnrCjg8k

[@jerrystibral3745]

Even with a catalytic unit; air needs to be added for the process to take place. - In your 'experiment' you had the Catalytic unit mounted in the Open Air, allowing it to 'Reburn' the smoke that you provided from the wood splinter.

[@embersliving]

Good to know

[@vevenaneathna]

hmm this is not entirely true. in industry catalytic systems are frequently used in applications without oxygen present, or like on most cars (not mine lol) very little oxygen present. the way that they work is still debated. it used to be thought that they simply allow a uniform and predictable surface for a reaction to take place which alters the orientation and thus required activation energy of stuff when it adheres/sticks to it. it is now better understood that there seems to be a quantum mechanical effect with election density and orbital energy level stabilization that happens at the surface. my favorite example of this is in the shake and bake method of making "breaking bad" from sue dow fed rin. lithium metal taken out from those non rechargable energizer batteries is added to a soda bottle containing the reactant dissolved in a solution of acid (concreate cleaner) with some kind of oil interface on top. the acid does the first step of the reaction (adding chloride instead of the alcohol group) and then shaking will push the lithium metal into the solution neutralizing the acid and producing hydroxide base which does the 2nd step of eliminating the chloride bond and forming a double bond. finally because you have lithium metal that is hot and dissolving (giving off hydrogen), it catalytically allows the hydrogen to hydrogenate the double bond and form the final saturated product. lithium as a catalytic surface should not work given the old theory of how catalytic metals function. also, this is an example of a catalytic surface working in an oxygen deprived environment. you are correct though that oxygen getting to the catalyst is where the majority of the heat comes from which is needed to significantly change the efficiency

[@SubvertTheState]

​@@vevenaneathna the whole lithium hydrogen thing went over my head. But that's fascinating. Ever since I found out what platinum group metals do, I couldn't stop. I bought 5 Aladdin lamps, clean and safe to use indoors (they're only meant to use indoors). They use a gas mantle. You basically ignite a gel lattice and it quickly burns off. What's left is a very light ash substrate infused with Iridium. A very low thermal inertia with Iridium catalyzing the combustion of Kerosene and Oxygen, producing a white bright light. I'm interested in a wood stove and the catalytic stove obviously piques my interest. I don't have much wood so that would be right up my alley. But you've really got me curious as to exactly how its catalyzed. Quantum trickery? That's mind blowing. It's kind of incredible how many essential processes are dependent on mysterious quantum events ...such as photosynthesis.

[@FrancoisEdmondOfficial]

4:55 Which stove is being demonstrated? I want to buy.

[@embersliving]

That is the Hearthstone Bari. Call us at [phone] to buy this wood stove

[@easylooker]

besides sleeping the most time away from keeping a fire going is work or going somewhere for the day. Work a 10 hr shift plus commute time... thats if you don't run by the store on your way back home. Need as long a burn time as you can get.

[@embersliving]

nice

[@jeffclark5024]

So how are they cleaned properly? I don’t even have a wood stove but how would a professional do it?

[@embersliving]

I'm not sure actually. I've seen people buy an extra as a back up too.

[@markesterline959]

Doses the re burn make a fire look more out of control lol I had an old wood stove and replaced it with one with the re burner and im scared it's burning out of control up the pipes

[@embersliving]

Yeah the fire looks bigger and starts faster

[@scottsluggosrule4670]

Get a laser heat thermometer..the temp of 451F + to about 750F is safe. Measure at the flue stove connection not at the flame. If there is a lot of flame you most likely have an air leak. The "flame" of the secondary burn is above the wood..looks more colorful and not really touching the wood itself. Its wood vapor burning. Do the leak test..put a dollar bill in the door..at all places..if you can easily pull it out anywhere...you have an air leak..put in a new gasket.

[@scottsluggosrule4670]

You can also see air leaks by the soot on your window..leaking areas will often soot up since they get cool room air and allows soot to not burn off.

[@martinschulz9381]

A lot of different opinions and schools of thought with these two systems, but I have overwhelmingly heard in favor of the tubes. A lot of variables with burn times. Stove manufactures and salespeople exaggerate the efficiency of their stoves.

[@embersliving]

interesting

[@andrewsolano9172]

@@embersliving lol i havent been to your shop but i been to the ones on union blvd and 8th......there used to be one by my house on louisiana and sheridan......all i gotta say is that martin isnt wrong

[@superfritz35]

Good vid. I have a question, don't know if you still monitor this thread, but I am running a 2020 EPA non-canalytic stove, when it's time for me to turn in and I load it up for the overnight burn and close the air control it rolls smoke inside the fire box, while still burning very slowly. Is this how it is supposed to be operating, or am I not supposed to see any smoke rolling in the firebox whatsoever?

[@embersliving]

you shouldn't see any smoke

[@scottsluggosrule4670]

You need to get flue temp near 500F before closing the air down..if your window keeps getting blackened your running too cool...

[@diethardlindner866]

Can you have both in the same firebox?

[@embersliving]

Yup hybrid models are very popular

[@Maine307]

So, i heat with an 1984 Dutchwest Cat wood stove. Very hard to get part. But my entire house is only heated with that stove. It is extremally efficient. i only go through 4 cord a winter. The issue i have is finding replacement parts..grates, cats, and internal parts.. do you have any of those for my model?

[@embersliving]

unfortunately not. That sounds like an amazing heater for running that long!

[@Maine307]

@@embersliving the best selling points are that they last a lifetime if they are cared for.. very normal up here to see 50- 60 yr old stoves still in use..

[@dianneirinaga8995]

Can these cleaner be put in older stoves?

[@embersliving]

you can replace old ones

[@scottsluggosrule4670]

Until your flue gases get to 451F+ you won't get a secondary burn from the tubes either..that is needed to get the wood vapors to burn. I don't understand how the heat from cat is added to the box since it is on the outflow..it would result in cleaner air in the chimney but most of the heat would seem to be only in the initial part of the flue???

[@embersliving]

Interesting

[@adiliqbal2777]

Thank you for the video! What happens if I leave the the bypass on/open in a catalytic stove all the time and not wait for it to come to the appropriate temp?? Just feel like that extra step to is a deterant for some people.

[@embersliving]

it just won't be as efficient

[@jamesanderson-rb7ql]

Decomposition rather than combustion so the catalyst surface with become fouled (poisoned) until it reaches the light-off temperature (which will then remove the fouling)

[@edjackson8425]

On a catalytic stove, if the combuster drops below 500 deg. because you close the air intake too much does the catalytic cumbuster stop working?

[@embersliving]

yeah and it can gunk up

[@markj284]

I cut dead standing pine from the mountains, never used a meter for moisture. I cut it split it burn it. Burning it hot once a day keeps the build up down. Stove Blaze King blaze princess 8 inch double wall. Throw in some card board, or quaken aspen once a month and clean my stove pipe once every season, and clean the arrestor 2 to 3 times a season mostly when the humidity is high. I think overall humidity in the area has different effects when burning pine. I burn mostly conifers, some spruce, and quaken aspen, every once in awhile cedar when i can as my back yard is full of it, not the tall standing cedar the small bush cedar that dulls your chainsaw chain.

[@embersliving]

Nice

[@WoodstockG54]

Higher a professional? I live 1hr drive one way to the nearest town. Good luck. So how do you clean them?

[@embersliving]

you can buy a back up

[@WoodstockG54]

@@embersliving I should know better than to ask a capitalist. Have you heard of fixed income? “The land of opportunity, at other’s expense.” Have you heard of fixed income? I use to work as a service technician and know all about up selling. Lost plenty of jobs for not complying to the concept. I’m now retired, thank God.

[@steventipton5130]

good video

[@embersliving]

Thanks for the visit

[@michaeldvorak5556]

It must be similar to a propane heater with a ceramic core. But, in a wood stove, as the wood burns and emits gas vapor the vapor burns in the catalytic unit.

[@embersliving]

it depends on the wood you burn too

[@shanelester9000]

Which style would work better to burn lump coal?

[@embersliving]

I dont recommend that

[@shanelester9000]

@@embersliving why not?

[@embersliving]

@@shanelester9000 I know some people do it but it can over heat your stove causing it to warp plus it doesnt have the best emissions

[@jeromeboily]

So what is the best way to clean the catalytic combustor safely ????

[@embersliving]

hire a chimney sweep

[@jeromeboily]

@@embersliving but if i want to do it myself ?? My chimney sweeper takes care of the chmney and i take care of my stove. !!

[@Food-Fire-and-Featherboards]

Soak it in a warm vinegar solution. You'll find info on how exactly to do this online. Works great. Did it on my last combustor. My current combustor is on it's 4th season and I haven't cleaned it yet. I'm in Canada so I start burning in October. Frequency increases to where I burn 24/7 in late December, January, and February, and then I gradually start to burn less probably until around May. I get such great burn times and use just 2.5 - 3 cord a season. It's also a stove from 1985. I'm sure that a newer cat stove or a hybrid would be even better. Cheers!

[@mikeznel6048]

Guess how they're professionally cleaned? Either with with a blow torch and burn off the crud or with, you guessed it, a wire brush but not all hard core like.

[@embersliving]

good to know

[@mikeznel6048]

@@embersliving I just seen my comment. I feel like I came off kind of nasty and I apologize for that.

[@embersliving]

@@mikeznel6048 no worries at all. we're kind of short with our replies too. Thanks for watching !

[@mikeznel6048]

@@embersliving I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I need to be more aware of what I'm saying and how I say it. I may have been in a bad mood or angered from someone/something else. No excuse to be like that to others though. Merry late Christmas. Hope it was the best one yet.

[@BryanSeigneur0]

You didn't mention how a wood stove cat converter is similar to the cat converter in your car. They're both magic (and delicate) space age chemistry soot burners that run at very high temp and don't really start doing anything until they reach that high temp. Nice way to tie a new concept into a familiar thing. Even if someone didn't know their car has a cat converter, then at least you'd connect to the idea of their car itself. Another thing to mention is that regular (non-cat-converter) secondary burn tech is probably, what, 300 years old now? (Or even as old at smelting metal--requiring efficient use of wood in a semi-industrial setting for thousands of years?!) People who want to be rustic are just making themselves look silly by going full caveman with a pain-in-the-ass open flame when we've had easier less wasteful burning tech, proudly, for wood or coal or whatever, for hundreds of years. My wife sees me helping with the house all the time and I sold her on putting a stove in our (huge) hearth by letting her know I'm not into a ton of work for a tiny amount of effect, not when we can have *easy* wood heat that cuts down on the way higher elec bill from the heat pump on long winter nights. You want pretty flame? Think of the stove window as a screen showing a log flame like is all the style nowadays. Think of the stove as an old CRT monitor made out of iron that belts actual heat when you play the log flame video, lol! Best of both worlds.

[@embersliving]

thanks for the tips

[@sherkhanbaloch9697]

I'm in a brand new detach house without any fireplace can I still get it installed how much will it cost,?? At the time of booking building was charging alot to install fake one in

[@embersliving]

yes you can for sure

[@brandonstahl3562]

Where do you get a new one... I've been waiting for the manufacturer for almost a year

[@embersliving]

some are universal and some are not

[@billwelch9431]

Is the government still offering credits for wood burning stoves and inserts and if so how does that look exactly? Thanks

[@embersliving]

yes they are through 2023, I have a video posted on this if you check it out on our channel

[@jackle842000]

So, how does the professional clean one?

[@embersliving]

That im not sure. We recommend to have a professional clean it and also have another as a back up.

[@jackle842000]

@@embersliving Yeah, that's not very helpful. Like if you're looking for help on cleaning residue from your bathtub and didn't know how the last thing you want to hear is pay a ton for a professional to come do it. Pretty sure you see where I'm coming from right? But thanks for what help you could provide anyway

[@funkydiy8372]

Do you know what kind of a system is in the Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim? It is different from both the examples you used. They are calling it a "combustion package." Any idea how the efficiency of that system compares to the others?

[@embersliving]

that stove is discounted

[@stverowe]

You said have a professional clean the combuster. But what if my professional is like your Mr. Knowit All? How will I know? Then suddenly my combustor doesnt work!

[@embersliving]

You can see a difference after its cleaned. We always recommend you have a back up as well.

[@ccccha]

How much do replacement catalysts run?

[@embersliving]

depends on the stove, but I would say 300-500

[@XtianApi]

I won't explain catalizers, I'm sure others will. But just FYI, they don't burn, they catalize. :)

[@embersliving]

Ok

[@XtianApi]

@@embersliving I'm mostly just being an annoying comic book guy.

[@blamuk]

whats that linear open flame fire place behind you? is it burning something or a flame effect? Do you have a link to the product? Is that the dimplex opti-mist?

[@embersliving]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKaQoYeCnrCjg8k

[@embersliving]

Yes

[@apuuvah]

Both!!

[@embersliving]

best answer right here

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the Jotul Oslo catalytic has no bypass

[@andrewthomsen9952]

Could you get this burn time with a Missionary stove? Or even combine the Catalytic somehow

[@embersliving]

that I am unsure of

[@bosse641]

I would rather get a secondary burn stove(Non-Catalytic). For several reasons.

[@kelvinkonkel3351]

What're your reasons?

[@bosse641]

@@kelvinkonkel3351 The hotter stove from the start, not having to wait for heat. And less creosot. Less cleaning of the stove. And a much more enjoyable burn with flames for the ambiance and enjoyment of it all. The cozyness of it. I don't mind burning more wood. I don't mind a shorter burn time. I am up in the morning anyway and ready and willing to feed the stove. Not a horrible chore. I love it.

[@embersliving]

@@bosse641 good reasons!

[@BeautifulPinkFlowers]

1. You said that the Catalytic Converter does not start working until the firebox is 500 degrees. What happens when the temperature starts going back down again (over time)? Does is stay in operation or does it stop at 500 degrees again? 2. I do not have a wood stove yet but I am getting one. You said the Catalytic Converter style is good for people who leave their house. Can you have a fire going in your wood stove... and leave your house? I would be afraid of burning my house down. Do you have to extinguish your fire if you have to go to the store? (Sorry. I am dumb). Haha.

[@embersliving]

Depends on the stove you get. Fully sealed stoves are designed to burn all the time

[@richscott2952]

You can leave your house,safer than going to bed !

[@derekmclv]

How much is a typical installation charge?

[@embersliving]

Really varies by area, I would say $800-$2,000

[@christopherfoulk9931]

I believe the stove I just pick out has both

[@embersliving]

nice

[@jackmclane1826]

Two solutions to the same problem. But the explanations on youtube are all lacking. They all focus on how hot the catalyst needs to be. But this is distracting! The catalyst is there to operate at a *much lower* temperature compared to where proper secondary burn works. The catalyst can let the stove operate cleanly in a lower power setting. As long as the catalyst is hot/active, it will work and "re-ignite" the leftover combustables. The gasses can be much cooler, as long as the catalyst is hot. Because it can keep itself running. That is great for stoves that are meant to operate at a low power setting, like over night or long shifts. Secondary burners without catalyst do the same in principle. But without the help of a catalyst the flue gasses need to be above the auto-ignition temp of the combustibles when the air is added. Which is 700-1000°F. So this principle does not work at a very low power setting. Because they won't ignite when they are not hot enough and go out the chimney.

[@embersliving]

Great advice!

[@genemilchling3054]

which one costs more?

[@embersliving]

they are close to the same

[@ron2494]

THE REASON WE USE A WOOD STOVE IS COST , AND MAINTANCE WITHOUT COMPROMISE OF ENVIORMENT . BALANCE IS AN EQUATION , AND COST PLAYS A PART ,FOR MOST OF US A LARGE PART

[@embersliving]

good feedback

[@faststang85]

You don't need the cat professionally cleaned, if taken care of all they need is vacuumed out

[@embersliving]

Yeah if you do clean burns

[@ronethridge9875]

yes-you were wrong on how the secondary air works-you said it does it on its on/that not true/the secondary burn is activated after the wood stove is up to burn temperature-then you close the primary air damper back to about 1/4 of air damper-then the convection of the draw of the stove will dawn air up the secondary chamber preheating the air an into the air tubes in top of burn -this then burns the gases that would other wise escape/giving a long burn time too/do some google research/thanks

[@embersliving]

haha thanks for watching

[@stevebrown1461]

So how do you clean a catalytic unit???

[@embersliving]

air usually

[@christopherhaak9824]

A non cat is more robust over a much wider range of operating conditions with different woods and can burn scrap material, including junk mail no problem. You have to be much more selective what you burn with a cat. Also, there is no reason to get a non cat stove that hot to begin with like you show in the graph. If you even it out at the front, the two are equivalent for burn times and so on. In any case, the most important thing an owner can do is understand how to run their stove efficiently and burn dry wood. Use outside combustion air, insulate your fire box to the max (you can get it up to temp much faster), and then run the stove within its normal parameters in terms of output and so on. There are a lot of people out there who simply don't know how to operate their stove effectively. I have a non cat stove, and it is nice to have the option to burn lots of "junk" in it, especially if it is already hot. Burnable things that can't be recycled and so on.

[@embersliving]

thanks for the feedback

[@aj78000]

insulate your fire box to the max why would you want to do that? Isn't the point to to remove the heat into the home?

[@kcycle1308]

@Aj Bob no. He's talking about the firebox. Insulated firebox will be hotter and burn better than non insulated. That's why you see firebricks in all woodstoves.

[@WisdomIsPrecious]

Mr. know it all was a riot

[@embersliving]

Ha thanks

[@Smokey66s]

Does fire retardant material above tubes allow top of stove to get hot enough to cook an boil water, same question for cat stoves?

[@ShinerBockGirlz]

what is that fire rock thing in the back? that is cool..is it real fire? or fake? please link that and explain!

[@elizd9952]

clean catalytic converters by tossing them into a bucket with laundry soap and water. Soak it for a few hours or overnight. then rinse and lst dry on a towel. Don't use tools. works for car catalytic converters also.

[@embersliving]

good to know

[@markhoffman1922]

That's what I have done for decades. For a quick clean, I just suck air through it with a vacuum cleaner. Not as good as water, but works for awhile.

[@tanner3801]

The catalytic precious metals do not include Silver... they are Platinum and Palladium.

[@embersliving]

oh, nice.

[@squirrelcovers6340]

Yeah, I caught that too. Now I disavow everything he said.

[@littlereptilian7580]

and Rhodium

[@johnmitchell1614]

Doesn't it bother you that you are burning hardwood trees? Most informative demo.Best regards.

[@embersliving]

Interesting

[@sissymurphy9620]

like a vehicle does with it's catalytic convertor , where is your store . I have a worthless fireplace in sounthside va . To me the whole wood stove throws off more heat . the house is a modular house built in 2004

[@embersliving]

Denver, Colorado.

[@darleneclark6098]

I'm looking to put a wood stove in our 1990 mobile, were in the process of rehabbing. Also in south west Virginia. Any advice

[@embersliving]

@@darleneclark6098 Check out our top 5 wood stove videos on our channel

[@sissymurphy9620]

funny we live in tree country but no wood stove places here , unless you want tractor supply or ace hardware and order them

[@embersliving]

Check out our website if you're in the USA. We dont ship to Hawaii or Alaska

[@sissymurphy9620]

@@embersliving I am in southside va

[@crissd8283]

I just wish I could pull off those shorts.

[@embersliving]

haha