Comparing Catalytic to Secondary Air Wood Stoves

Not sure what type of stove to get? Maybe this video can help you.
This is just a comparison of 2 models on our showroom floor. It is important to remember that there are many types of secondary air and catalytic stoves out there on the market.

[@wimam1977]

thanks for the information......this is the first time I understand the difference between these 2 kind of stoves....

[@tinmaninc2023]

Glad it was helpful!

[@robjohnston5292]

Clear, concise explanation that made sense to this wood stove newbie. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.

[@trevorstolz8580]

I have a Blaze King Princess. I am a shift worker and I work 12 hour shifts. What I like about the Blaze King with the catalyst is that even with the air vent fully open (it gets down to -35 C in northern Alberta), there are still lots of coals left when I get home. I live about 45 minutes out of town. So, basically, it has not problem burning for a full 14 hours, even with the air vent fully open. That is a big plus for me. After a 12 hour shift, I don't want to be bothered relighting a cold stove. I just throw more wood in the woodstove and it takes off. I do agree that that catalyst is expensive. Part of the reason that I want to burn wood is to save money. However, with heating costs going up every year, I think maybe buying a new catalyst every other year is not the worst thing in the world. When the catalyst is new, the whole thing blows bright red. When it gets older, it doesn't glow as bright, however, there is still virtually no smoke going out of the chimney. It still burns very clean.

[@King_TuTT]

you have to replace that catalyst every year? not so good for when the shit hits the fan and you can't buy them anymore. Looks like I'll be sticking to the other one.

[@LifesLaboratory]

I'm in central BC and heat my home entirely with wood. I have a Blaze King King. It's awesome. I see no reason, however, to replace the catalyst each year - they should last a minimum of 5 years (probably closer to ten).

[@LifesLaboratory]

@@King_TuTT You don't need to replace it this often... but you also don't need to use it. ;) You don't need to run it in catalytic mode. Losing the catalytic unit makes it less efficient, but it will still be better than most non-catalytic other stoves.

[@wobdeehomestead]

@@LifesLaboratory if you run it in the non cat mode all the heat will go straight up the chimney and you may also cause damage or warping to the bypass. It’s also better to go by catalytic life in hours not years. They only last 10,000-12,000 hours which would not stretch out to 10 years unless you only burned weekends.

[@brucea550]

@@wobdeehomestead Correct. The guy at the stove shop trying to sell me a cat model said with our 6 month winters, using the stove full time means 2-3 years lifespan.

[@terrymaines69]

We have the Blaze King Princess this is our 8th year with it I have NOT replaced the CAT yet but one day I will have to I knew this going into this deal. We follow the instruction with the stove to a T!!! This stove is one of the best purchases we've ever made the stove does what the brochure says. I manly feed and run the stove myself 7 months a year get you one you wont be sorry.There is a reason it has King in the name its the KING of wood stoves!!! Thank You Blaze King!

[@tinmaninc2023]

Great comment

[@tinmaninc2023]

@@scottdhorn Hearthstone coined the phrase "heatlife" and Blaze King works very similar to that if that's the type of stove you have. Low heat over a long period of time. Main difference being with Blaze King is you have half a load of wood still in the firebox in the morning.

[@5153flash]

Its amazing how these wood stoves have grown. Makes my wood stove look like a backyard fire for efficiency. And it was the best stove available years ago.

[@MonoblocII]

Definitely team catalyst here. My Dad has a Blaze King princess. I remember visiting during November a few years back. (west coast of BC) He was working 12 hour days (6AM-6PM), Mom was out of town. I stopped in to visit and beat him home by about 10 minutes. I walked in the door at 6:30 PM and was greeted to a hot house that felt like stepping off a plane in Hawaii. It was about 3°C outside, but the rain and wind were pounding like crazy. Blowing rain sideways. A real cold damp night. I just so happened to have my IR temp gun with me. It was 25°C inside the house on the wall the farthest away from the wood stove. Every room felt wonderful. I asked him when he last put wood in there, because I couldn't fathom him putting in wood at 5AM just to go to work. He said "I put some in about 8 PM last night." I said "You've been burning this for over 22 hours?" He answered yep like I'd just asked him if 2+2 = 4. No smoke outside. No smell outside. The catalyst was in the active zone. I threw another log in and it caught fire with ease. (All his co-workers with non-catalyst stoves came home to cold houses) He has one of those heat sink powered fans on top of the stove. I've learned that when that fan starts to spin is also when the stove crosses into the active zone. Thus if you see the fan spinning, it's time to close the bypass and let it run clean. Takes about 20 minutes. The longer the fire runs, the better the catalyst works. Because as a fire starts to smoulder and slow down near it's end cycle, the cat will see more smoke. The smoke ignites in the cat and keeps the cat active, pushing heat back down into the wood until the fire is completely out (some 30 hours later......40 hours if you have the Blaze King king model) Those long burns leave you with very little ash. He told me he took about a teaspoon of creosote out of the chimney during his annual cleaning. Wood is his only source of heat. The catalyst lasted about 8 years or so. That seems decent to me. When you get older, the ability to burn about 1/3rd as much wood as you would with a traditional stove is a nice selling point. That's a lot less stacking, carrying, buying etc. The automatic thermostat (that you set from 1-4) is a nice feature. You set it on 4 (max) during the initial light. And then about 30 minutes later dial it down to where you want it. Usually 2, maybe 2.5..... 3 would be for nights when it's below freezing. Turning it down to 1 will prolong the fire. It's way better than constantly adjusting a manual damper all evening long. It's a real steady heat. House is comfortably warm without being too hot. The secondary air models have their place. If you only heat on weekends or only want a few hours of burn time (let the furnace do the rest) than a secondary air is what you want. If you're renting a home out, you want a secondary burn for the simplicity. (You need to open the bypass handle on a catalyst model before you open the door to keep smoke from spilling out). Secondary will give you the dancing flames but won't do much during the last stages of the fire for efficiency. The catalyst will often give you glowing orange wood with little to no flames. Occasionally you'll see a horizontal flame along the top of the stove but no flame coming out of the wood. That's the smoke igniting in the catalyst. It's a strange thing to see even when you know why. It will do the dancing flames after an hour or so during the initial light. But they won't be as pronounced as the secondary air stoves. The chimney is surprisingly not hot with the Blaze King. It's warm. You can touch it. But you won't burn your hand. There are lots of videos on youtube of people cutting a hole inside the chimney and holding their hand in there while the stove is running. They'll close the bypass and sure enough, the smoke goes to nothing. But why would it be hot? There is very little air going up a catalyst stove when it's active. Everything gets burnt inside the catalyst and radiated back downwards into the wood.

[@tinmaninc2023]

well said. Thanks so much for watching.

[@projectdesign4675]

I'm old fashioned (B.C. central interior)...on occasion -50......just like a car or a body...."let it breathe".....we didn't care about WEF or local rules where I lived (B.C. is very, very ignorant liberal)......oxygen-fuel-ignition.......heat that puppy after a "safe install"....make it glow!

[@Whatever-od7zi]

My wife and I just got a house with a stove. I was researching if it was any good and apparently it is a very nice secondary air stove. This video helped me identify what type it was. This video also helped me understand that the secondary air stove is what I want for the goals that I have for a stove.

[@overlycranked8674]

This is by far the clearest and the most concise explanation for the subject. Thank you

[@tinmaninc2023]

thanks so much. Really appreciate the comment.

[@jamy8575]

Could had simply said secondary= quicker heating of area and more wood consumption Versus Catalyst = more efficient, last longer with longer heat up times.

[@tinmaninc2023]

@@jamy8575I could have but then it would not have made for a very good video.

[@farmnranchapiarybeehiveser8120]

Thank you for the clear concise explanations. After moving from Arizona to the Ozarks 15 years ago only recently decided to put in a wood stove. Had inefficient fireplaces in the past. But it was mostly aesthetic thing anyway. I've been using the stove a little over two weeks burning primarily Red Oak cut from standing dead trees. It is a secondary air England wood stove but I had done no research before buying from the local hardware store. And that gentleman wasn't much help. LOL Seems I was lucky though. In England's owner handbook they stated the fresh air intake port on the back could either draw off house air or outside air if code demanded it or if the house had a negative air pressure. So I hooked it up both ways using a tee and 2 shut off valves I can either draw outside or inside air. I have a friend who's shop stove has a fan hooked up too blow fresh air in the Firebox to assist in Rapid ignition during startups. So while I was at it I hook a nice quiet $15 computer fan up to the intake that draws off the house. "Seems to work as intended" England's handbook also stated to latch the door in the open position which cracks it about 1 in. For about 15 minutes upon startup. That is as efficient as the fan I installed. But the fan works better reloading on the hot coals in the morning. It helps to read the book all the way through in the beginning. I didn't do that. It has a airflow dampener which works really well but then I found out if you turn it counterclockwise it will set the valve to close off the primary air completely. It is thermostat controlled. Do how much depends on how hot it is. If you don't set it you will have nothing but Ash in the morning. but if you reload the stove before going to bed you do not only have a large coal bed but many of the logs will also be a giant glowing piece still intact. with little Flames popping up here and there about an inch. Which is why I came here. I was curious if that was enough Flame? Or that huge bed of glowing coals was better? my questions were answered. I'd like to add I didn't have time to season my firewood very well. I realize it will create more creosote but things are what they are. And after half an hour there rarely is any smoke exiting the stovepipe. 🤠🐂🏞️🛩️

[@allanwells4886]

Very informative. I've heard of catalytic stoves; they sound amazing. I've had a New Zealand built stove(Meridian) for 37 years and it is amazing as well; very efficient but probably not as efficient as a catalytic stove. My maximum burn time is about 18hrs with the air turned right down BUT it does blacken the glass at that setting so I tend to leave the air at around an eighth to a quarter open overnight; no dirty glass when I get up but plenty of coals to re-ignite a fresh load of wood. Thanks for the information.

[@david-breitenfeld]

37 years, That is THE ultimate test and you didn't have to buy replacement catalytic converters, they are pricy and can be hard to find.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

I had a Vermont Casting catalytic stove when I bought the house. It was terrible. It was hard to use, you really had to dial it in, the catalytic went bad and the stove didn’t run properly and it was expensive. I replaced that stove I’ve had secondary air since. Currently I’m running an Enviro insert and a Pacific Energy. Great efficiency, clean burning and easy to use. Zero complaints. This is a great video that really breaks down the differences.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Unfortunately Vermont Castings stoves is the main reason cat stove have received a bad name in the industry. Since then they have been purchased and revamped their units. They now tend to work better then before and don't rely on cats.

[@richardpeck1973]

This is with out a doubt the best video I've ever seen on explaining the differences between a catalytic and a secondary air wood stove. I've never had a catalytic stove, but I sure get tired of feeding my secondary air stoves. I now have the Hearthstone. My previous stove was a LOPI. My friend nick-named this stove, "Low output, per input" and he was right. My Hearthstone takes at least an hour to heat up those soapstones so they start radiating heat. Then the fire only last about 2 hours and it's time to refuel. Unless you want the stove strictly for the way the fire looks, I'd get the catalytic stove.

[@matts8330]

Do you have one of the truhybrid soapstone models? If so, what's your take on them? They seem to have very mixed reviews on build and quality the past few years

[@briankirwan9588]

We have one of largest jotul wood stoves and it has no trouble burning 6-8 hours on a load of wood once it's fully warmer up and has a bed of coals. It is the only hear source in our house which is almost 5000 square feet. It's an old house from the 1890s and is not well insulated.

[@BType13X2]

@@briankirwan9588 I am heating a combined 2600 square feet with a blazeking Ashford, I load wood once a day in the morning and leave it be. It's a cat stove, if I want the ambiance of the fire I open my damper and bypass the cat. That's usually only done when people are over otherwise Cat engaged, damper down to a lower setting. My stoves in my basement and it heats both the basement and main floor easily. If you need to heat an absolutely huge space with a cat stove I'd go to blazekings king model thing is a beast, my friend has it for his huge farm hours and is heating around 4200 Sq feet. It actually does the heating a little too efficiently imo cause his house is really warm.

[@harrymills2770]

@@QuietlyContemplating I don't think it's the dryness of your wood, but maybe it's harder wood. I've lived in the Colorado Rockies and Northern Idaho, and there just isn't much hardwood to be found. Maybe in towns you see more hardwoods, but not in Nature without human help.

[@macrichardson7440]

I sell wood stoves and inserts at our hearth store. The one thing that no one can seem to answer is "Define a 20 hour burn time" . What does that mean to the consumer. 20 hours at WHAT temperature. Sure the stove will burn down to embers and decrease down to 200 degrees, but you're not "heating" the house anymore. We tell our customers who come in and are concerned with "efficiency". " If you don't have a free source of firewood, then you have lost your efficiency because you are now paying for wood". We get a lot of customers who think wood stoves are romantic and nostalgic and then the opposite ones who know what they are doing and use it as main heat for their home. Over the years, I have heard some pretty stupid stories from consumers about how they use their wood stove.................... Honestly all of us in the industry are surprised more homes have not burned down over stupidity and ignorance.

[@denverbasshead]

I have a lopi evergreen which is a secondary burn stove. I get about 10 hour burn times and will still have a nice bed of coals in the morning to start the next fire. I dont want to deal with a replacement catalyst every so often and i can make my own reburn tubes if i wanted. And seeing the floating dancing flames when I shut down the air is amazing to see

[@wobdeehomestead]

There are only so many BTU's in each stick of wood. Each type of stove will release basically the same amount but the cat stove has the capability to release them slower and longer. This is good for those relatively warmer Spring and Fall days where you dont need that much heat but when its colder expect to run it hotter like the non cat stove. The catalyst will only last 10-12000 hours so if your a 24/7 burner in a cold climate expect a pricey $200-300 replacement every other year after your warranty is up.

[@vinquinn]

Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Burn time is not total heat output. People confuse BTU's per hour (Power ) with total BTU's (Energy).

[@joelsanford]

Wood type and moisture has a lot to do with burn time as well. The Jotul manual on the secondary air stoves specifically states that wood that is too dry will burn too fast in their stoves.

[@D-B-Cooper]

I have had both, I burn softwood that is not very dry, for long periods of time. Cat takes up a lot of chamber and plugged up real fast. Secondary has been much better, good long burn with little chimney cleaning.

[@xyzsame4081]

@@D-B-Cooper It is a major mistake to burn wood that is not ideally dry. (If you do not need a lot you could staple some nearby the stove if you have the space and it will lose some water in the house (still costs some energy, that is like drying laundry inside, but at least the burning process is efficient and clean. Soot in chimney - more cleaning and a fire hazard, could even get tricky if you ever have a fire and the insurance company has a look at your chimney. it will likely not be good for the catalyst and it drastically reduces efficiency. The water in the wood has to dry out and that costs energy, you lose that for heating. Plus more air pollution.

[@D-B-Cooper]

@@xyzsame4081 I live in a rain forest, the ambient humidity precludes having wood dry below 10%. I burn about 5 cords a winter and have done so for years. The only soot I develop is in the cap where the smoke hits the cold air and condenses. I now have a stove with a secondary air system, works great. Soot is a product of having a very low fire that is why new stoves no longer let you throttle it down to smolder all night. The hotter the fire the more the gasses burn off. There is a vid on yt where someone tested kiln dried, seasoned and wet wood. The resulting graft was quite interesting. The only difference was in how quickly the fire came up to maximum heat, otherwise they all produced the same amount of heat and burned for the same length of time. I was once burned out in a wildfire that also burned a thousand homes, I was insured but they never paid me a dime so am no fan of insurance companies.

[@dougmillar3874]

had both types and like the secondary air stove MUCH BETTER. No waiting for the combustor to heat up. The best way to tell if a stove is burning efficiently is to see what is coming out of the chimney. If you see smoke (unburned gasses) it is not efficient. If you see shimmering wavy exhaust with no smoke you are burning most efficiently. The secondary air stove is better in that regard in my 45 years burning experience. No smoke is most efficient (and no creosote).

[@neillee3793]

I moved into a house with a Lennox County Secondary Air stove. It has primary air control but can't seen to find a secondary air control and assume it is "fixed" with entry at the lower portion of the firebox between panels of the side walls. Does that sound correct? I do get alot of smoke with starting or reloading the fire, after a while (hour) seems to burn without must less or no smoke.

[@BrockOBauma]

@@neillee3793 there is no secondary air control.

[@ridemfast7625]

@@neillee3793 It takes practice, trial and error, to reduce the smoke output when reloading. We learned not to wait too long, STT below say ~400, and the reload ignites quickly with minimum smoke. Also, fully opening the primary air control before reload and opening door. Slowly closing air control depending on how the reload burn takes off. Again, its a ymmv trial and error depending on stove, wood, size of reload, draft...

[@LifesLaboratory]

There definitely won't be any smoke coming out of a catalytic unit if it's in catalytic mode (or if it's burning hot in non-catalytic mode, in my experience). I haven't found the heating up time to be an issue.

[@scooterss2112]

And you are burning through wood like you live in a forest.

[@TugHillGuy]

I tend to favor hybrid burners that feature the best of both types of stoves like the Jøtul F 500 V3 Oslo or the Woodstock Progress Hybrid stove. They deploy both technologies described in this video and allow you to decide whether to go for a hotter, more attractive fire or a longer burning fire. The Jøtul stove has a new type of combustor that is guaranteed for 20 years and doesn't require a bypass damper for when the stove is heating up, so its first hour emissions are extremely low because it always burns in a clean mode. Catalytic stoves have very high emissions while their bypass dampers are open, and require you to pay close attention to the catalyst temperature after lighting a fire so that you know when to close the damper. If you happen to get an engrossing phone call or you fall asleep right after lighting the stove you may burn all the wood up with the damper open. Catalysts have come a long way but are still often the Achilles heels of catalytic wood stoves. When they are new and undamaged they do a great job of giving you a high efficiency burn but if they become damaged or worn out the efficiency of the stove can drop substantially.

[@haliaeetus8221]

Can one clean and fix catalyst easily?

[@BType13X2]

@@haliaeetus8221 You can easily clean it, I use my shop vac to clean it up. If the cat needs servicing I would buy a new cat, install it and get the old one serviced. It should be a good long time 5~+ years before the cat is damaged. But from experience you will destroy your first cat in the first few years of operation while learning to use it. I have 3 species of wood I burn for heat, each has different settings and I don't have the luxery or space to let my wood dry / season for 2 years before I burn it. Most gets 6 months. So you will be cleaning it / servicing it. My practice is to use my shop vac to suck the ash out of the stove and then to take the shop vac to the cat. I do this every week and don't need to really worry about any other maintenance.

[@lrich9317]

Thanks for the info about the Oslo 500. How do you increase the burn time other than reducing the front air inlet ? Also were you at all bother by the stove needing such thin pieces of wood ?

[@lrich9317]

Also can you burn in the Oslo 500 without the catalyst I place without causing damage to the stove?

[@TugHillGuy]

@@lrich9317 It doesn't require thin pieces of wood. Thin pieces are often used in demos because they catch on fire quickly. The front air inlet is the only control on the burn rate.

[@magicdaveable]

My woodstoves are old but extremely well built. Both have thermostatic cold air inlets so the burn is fairly efficient. I also have 2 Wiseway Non-electric pellet stoves. I use all 4 stoves during the winter. One woodstove to heat my barn and one to heat my "shop." I use the pellet stoves to heat my house. If pellets become expensive I have 2 spare woodstoves stored for "kust in case."

[@Smokey66s]

I had a Lopi Endeavor, 5 hour burns, brick floor level with bottom of door, constant ember roll outs that land on catch tray also level with bottom of door so you have to clear catch tray before you close door. Also only takes small diameter pieces of wood which means more wood splitting, heat mostly from noisy blower, minimal radiant heat from sides and top. Lopi is in storage covered with tarp, reinstall if I sell my home. Installed a non EPA stove that gets 12 hour burns, takes 20” rounds, maybe more hot smoke up chimney but house is warm! California Dixie Fire put out more pollution than 100,000 non EPA wood stoves and 2 cycle chain saws for 50 years, while 20 other California wild fires were also burning, Hug a Thug Governor Gavin Newsom is going to save the world and get China to put out all their burning coal mines AND stop the sun from eventually burning out!

[@LivingOnWheels]

Honestly man, really good explanation of these things! Thanks for the video

[@bardrick4220]

I didn't even know catalytic stoves were a thing! Thanks Man!

[@Sylvan_dB]

Since about 1989.

[@DonziGT230]

You can make any stove more efficient by feeding it outside air rather than having it consume your warm air which forcibly draws cold air into the house.

[@brucea550]

Not true. Cold air creates a less efficient burn. You need fresh air exchange anyway, why not burn the warm stale air and breathe fresh air.

[@jeremywhelan394]

Hey great review I have the Blaze King Princess and I love it. I burn a mixture of hard and soft wood with no problem and I get a good 11-12 burn time with stove turned up 1/4 or so and where I live there are lots of windy days. This is a great thing to know when a storm has gusts up to 100km hr the Blaze King burns the same no out of control fires and burn time stays almost exactly the same and another note. Very very low soot build up in the chimney which eliminates chimney fires. I had two cup fulls of ash in a full season of burning which is 4-5 months with really dry fire wood. Secondary stoves are good too but lighting my fire once every few weeks and getting a long burn time is great for a home owner. God bless

[@cynthiaayers7696]

Run your air intake directly from the outside into the back top of an old fridge and out through the bottom to the stove. This is great in the winter time because the fridge will be ice cold. No electric. And the plus is by taking outside air into the stove directly, the heat will go out any air gaps, instead of the other way around. I've done this myself years ago. The pipes can get frosty, but that's a good thing. Because can put it to good use if you stop and think about it. PS. Don't need any bigger than 2 inch pipe, plenty of air with that.

[@Kandyman54]

@@cynthiaayers7696 Brilliant! I had thought about outside combustion air, but not about using it for another purpose first.

[@nobleroofinggeneralcontrac7961]

I have the secondary air stove and love it. Long burn times. Only time I get smoke out of it is when I load it and that maybe for 10 minutes. MUST have seasoned wood for efficiency and for long burn times 9 to 10 hours. I lay my logs left to right for long burn times. To get quick heat I place my logs front to back. Heats a 1,500 sq foot home. It was 80 degrees when I woke this morning and I loaded it up 8 hrs before hand. I open the door in the morning so it can burn down and I can remove some ash, then after a couple of hours I will load it up again for a long burn. It was 28 degrees over night nice and comfortable in here. I have a unit on my stove pipe with a thermostatic fan to capture heat going up the 10 ft tall chimney. I removed the top sheet metal ( for an optional factor fan unit) to make for a larger cooking area. Heat feels better and food taste better. I am sure that's all in my mind but it does to me. Great video!

[@jedidiah5131]

I'm pleasantly surprised with my Drolet. I basically do what you do. I can usually get a good 10-12hrs burn time with a good bed of coals for relighting in the morning. I don't sleep for more then 4-5 hrs anyway but have let the stove run its course to compare it to manufacturers specs. And as far as creosote build up I get maybe a 1 cup every 6 months out of my chimney....

[@nobleroofinggeneralcontrac7961]

@@jedidiah5131 That is my manufactured brand also. I was old school and was not quite sure about the new regulated stoves. We had a damper on the chimney and on the door of our old school.. if you stayed with it and had good door gaskets you could burn efficiently. I am impressed with my stove now and recommend.

[@moiaddy1]

@nobleroofinggeneralcontrac7961 and @jedidiah5131 I spent quality time this weekend researching wood stoves and have decided on the Drolet Nano, I have a really small place. Glad to see positive reviews of them. Any tips and tricks are greatly appreciated.

[@wireedm1]

Great video, thanks for posting! I've got a Princess insert and couldn't be happier with it!

[@safffff1000]

i have an insert and don't like that I need a blower use it. 2/3 of the radiating surface buried in the fireplace and I can't cook on it

[@wireedm1]

@@safffff1000, I never use the blower that came with our stove. The radiant heat it produces is more than enough to heat our home. When it's 30 degrees or less we will sit an Eco Fan heat powered fan on it to just stir the air. But, ours is a Blaze King, which is amazing. Not sure what you're using.

[@darrellsaturnbigfoot]

Absolutely one of the best videos explaining the efficiency of a wood stove. You made it easy for me to decide as I am now replacing my 20 year old Regency.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Glad it was helpful!

[@edwardgabriel5281]

Why are you replacing your Regency? I changed the tubes and firebrick and it performs perfectly. The chamber separator is still good. The parts are simple to replace.

[@trustbuster23]

I have a catalytic wood stove, and the biggest downside is the delay in getting heat when you start them cold. It is like preheating an oven. First you establish the fire, then you run the stove with the bypass damper open for at least 20 minutes to get the stove and the catalyst hot. Then you shut the bypass damper and start getting meaningful heat out of the thing. For a cold cabin that is maybe 30 degrees inside, that is a long time to be cold. But once you get past that slow start up, they work great, as long as you are burning seasoned, dry wood.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Yeah that is a downside with cabins. In cases like that I generally recommend a secondary air stove to my customers who come in the showroom. Cat stoves work best burned every day.

[@steveocvirek6671]

Really great video. I am looking to buy a wood stove or backup heat. Learned a ton from your video. Thank you So MUCH for making it ! ! !

[@teddyrasputin3850]

Thanks, best overview / comparison of the two types I've heard. Still don't know which way I'll go though. LOL

[@bret9741]

Thank you. We have a 12-14 year old QuadraFire 7100. This is a secondary air unit. I have absolutely perfect cut and cured firewood. It’s kept in a shed and dry with good airflow. I also burn Enviro Brick fire logs. These fire logs are 100% hard wood sawdust compressed under 25 tons of pressure. This compression forms a hardwood brick Anyway the firewood will burn about 5-6 hour and put off heat for an additional 3-4 hours. The Enviro bricks stacked with about 1” space staggered two packages and we get a 6-7 hour burn with additional heat of 3-4 hours. With both kind of fuel, the peak heat at is from about 30 min after lighting and maintained peak heat for about 4 hours then it begins a gradual decline. The quadrafire 7100 is a discontinued model. It has some issues, we have owned two of them over the years in different homes. The issues we have had is: (1) glass always smokes up as the fire begins to cool. (2) the auto air controller needs to be serviced or replaced every 4-5 years. (3) the door handles melt if left in the open position (4) the door seals and glass seals go bad every 2 years. We are getting ready to remodel. Im thinking we will go with a stove this time. We use the QuadraFire as primary heat once temps are below 40F. I need stove that will heat about 3000 Sq ft.

[@tinmaninc2023]

There are stoves out there but it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. The room with the stove will get extremely hot and it that okay then a secondary air stove will work fine like a Osburn 3500, Quadra-fire 5700, Pacific Energy Summit, etc. Max burn time 12 hours.... going with a cat stove you could look at the Blaze King model King 40 or Regency F5200. Both of these require an 8" chimney while the secondary air stoves require 6".

[@sirbletchley]

Having used all types of wood stoves I would say I prefer the reburn. Although, the catalytic stove is an old Vermont Casting and they don't have the best reputation. Whatever stove you buy, get one with the lowest possibility of an air leak. i.e. no ash dump, few gaskets. That Vermont Casting has an ash dump and six different gaskets of varying sizes. After the last time I took it apart and cleaned it up it feels like it burns through the wood faster so it must have an air leak somewhere.

[@acolella33]

I have a blazeking princess 32. At 1st I didn't like it and was disappointed.. but learned I wasn't burning "truly seasoned wood" once I ordered kiln-dried wood and my own seasoned firewood mixed. Blazeking. IMO are by far superior compared to my napolen wood stove. Yes. It does take some patience but once you get the operating system down 6 pieces of wood burns/heats my whole 1600 sqft home nicely for a good 12/14 hrs on a high. To each and they're own. I personally prefer longer burns with more consistent heat output not worrying about loading up the fire box every 4/6 hours especially at night.

[@cynthiaayers7696]

Where does the air come into the stove in the first place. Is it from inside the house or from a direct line to outside with a manual air control valve. Bc you don't show any of that. And that can make all the difference in heating.

[@drew3406]

Excellent video. I think for my case where I will be using my cabin only on weekends, the secondary air stove will work better for me. I will need the cabin to warm up quick vs keeping it warm for long periods of time. However my buddy will be living in his cabin all the time and he has a Blaze King which will be going all day, every day in the winter time and that one is a lot better suited to him.

[@podcastnusakan]

Great video. I didn't know catalytic stoves could give you burn times of 30 hours. That's crazy. Still, I think I prefer non-catalytic stoves. I have a Pacific Energy Super LE (non catalytic) and I'm pretty satisfied with the 6-7 hours burn time. This stove is very efficient and well built. The only thing I don't like about these secondary air EPA stoves is that they prevent you from closing air intake completely. I have a straight and tall chimney and that gives me a very strong draft. Sometimes when the temperature outside is cold the fire becomes uncontrollable even with air intake shut all the way down. Second combustion goes nuclear and the only thing I can do when it happens is look at my fire hoping it calms down. Not cool.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Completely opposite with cat stoves. BK uses about 70% less air and are not prone to over draft issues as secondary stoves are. Each has its place and I am glad you love your PE.... just don't overfire the stainless baffle in the top.

[@podcastnusakan]

@@tinmaninc2023 Thanks for the heads up. The only solution I found to prevent overfiring is to put less wood during reloads... which is ok but not ideal. My PE dealer told me he is not authorized to install a key damper on my stove pipe due to some construction regulations in my province.

[@lrich9317]

@@podcastnusakan I am looking forward to getting the alderlea 6t soon. So you recommend getting the damper on the stove pipe ?

[@podcastnusakan]

​@@lrich9317Well I contacted PE about my excessive draft situation and they responded that in my case a key damper is probably be the best solution to my problem. Almost everyone on the hearth forums also suggests I install a key damper. So I will install one and see if it makes a diffence this winter. I'll try to think about coming back here and report my results!

[@brenbates1677]

Either one of the stoves you have ..get the fire ripping in the start with wood at less than 10% moisture. Let the flue get to about 300 , it may take some time. Once your over 300 , leave door cracked and stick 2 to 4 pieces of wood with moisture level over 20 but below 35%. Let wood take. Once the load is going , shut door and close off air down to 10% max. If you do that correctly , your fire should last all night. When getting up in AM , rip the fire hot with nice kindling or a few small real dry logs. And repeat. It's 30 degrees outside but the thermostat that's about 40 feet away from the stove , also with twists and turns of hallways and walls , it's 74 back there. Just make sure you burn it hot in beginning and end. And never burn pine or fresh / green wood Always remember moisture levels may result in the wood being damp from a recent rain storm , and that isn't wet core wood , it's only surface moisture. Be safe and always have your chimney swept Once a year and never be proud if you voted for biden.

[@louiswestfall9622]

Enough of the political bullshit!

[@safffff1000]

@@louiswestfall9622 ?????????????

[@MrSprintcat]

Let's go Brandon

[@EFTTappingwithHeatherAmbler]

In many parts of the world, pine is the only option.

[@brenbates1677]

@@EFTTappingwithHeatherAmbler I've heard..unfortunately you will have to sweep your flue multiple times a year and always be careful when burning hot hot. Best of luck

[@Mosquito3314]

Really helpful video. I have an older avalon wood stove, that clearly has reburn tech in it. I was always curious about cat fireplaces , I really love the idea that I can get long burn times. It would be perfect for me cause I generally run my stove around 500-600 during the day in winter. But i let it die out for bed time, mainly cause It doest really get many hours of run time. But a cat stove could really get 10+ hours which would last me till i wake up and keep the fire going.

[@sonofrobert]

I have an old, 1990 Osburn with secondary air. I have coals after 10 hour overnight burn. Very happy with it. Mine has solid black metal in back for secondary air. Thick metal with air holes across the upper back of firebox. These new ones have all these tubes that may not last as long. Curious when they get rotted out like a BBQ but they are probably more efficient being over the whole top of fire. Cheers

[@christopherhaak9824]

The modern tubes are a high grade stainless, they don't rot. They are very durable.

[@rogerj.3640]

Excellent explanation. Thanks a million.

[@gerrys6265]

Sorry, I missed the part where you explain how the catalytic burners work. You did explain the secondary burner principle, but...the catalytic? Thanks

[@tinmaninc2023]

I have another video explaining that. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXa4nZaBer50l8k

[@Indeewoods]

Great video and comparison of the two.

[@Chris-qf9qm]

I miss my blaze king, those stoves are incredible.

[@Keiferdeifer]

What happened to it?

[@Chris-qf9qm]

@@Keiferdeifer I sold it with the house

[@WeatherNut27]

I do mind getting up at 4am to reload but I like the quick starts and hotter fires and flames. I get wood dropped off for free so not worried about how much I use.

[@tangoone6312]

How long does the catalytic converter last and how much are they to replace?

[@sissymurphy9620]

i was wondering the same o r can they be cleaned

[@ssoffshore5111]

I have a BK King. Myself and two friends in CT bought ours all at the same time back in 2009 ($1925 each, don't know what they cost now, but I'm sure they're worth every penny). Anyway, we all remove and clean the cat at least once a year. All of us use the stoves all winter long, and we are all still using the original cat! I do have a spare cat which I bought with the stove, but haven't installed it. Awesome stoves!

[@sissymurphy9620]

@@ssoffshore5111 You can't even get them anywhere because of the supply chain . I tried ENGLAND STOVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE IN MONROE VIRGINIA . NONE

[@haliaeetus8221]

@@ssoffshore5111 So roughly, how much does a catalyst spare part cost then?

[@westhavenor9513]

Thank you. Great explanation. I just put a deposit on a catalytic stove, but didn't really understand how it worked until now.

[@david-breitenfeld]

Make sure you can buy replacement catalytic converter and know the PRICE. My replacement cost over $250. Didn't last but two years. So ASK. A non catalytic converter could be a better option in the long run. I never read about this fact from reviews or advertisements. Hidden cost and hidden headache too.

[@GigglyGirlPearl]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good job.

[@tubastuff]

When we replaced our old Fisher stove about 30 years ago, cat stoves were really being pushed. What I learned by asking lots of questions was this: Is there a warranty on the catalyst--and for how long? (its perfectly possible to "poison" one). What's the catalytic efficiency at the end of the catalyst's life, compared to what it is at the start? Should your company go out of business or be sold, how long will replacement catalytic cartridges be available? Can I get a replacement cartridge, say, for my Oregon Woodstove (long defunct)? One thing that was a real stopper for a couple of candidates was "You show a left-hand hinge model. but we need a right-hand hinge one. Can you sell me one?" You would be amazed at the number of "no" responses we got on that one. After all the research, we wound up with the secondary burner. It cost more than the catalytic models, but it still works just fine. Heating efficiency isn't a big thing, as we own our own woodland and usually have far too much downed wood to be able to burn it all.

[@mdocod]

EPA testing for these stoves includes an efficiency rating produced from the test sequence expressed as HHV. The 3300 is 71%, the Princess is 80%. The fact that the catalytic stove also burns steadier will tend to mean that the fluctuations in the house will be less significant, which has secondary efficiency advantages not shown here. What this tends to mean, is that for the typical wood burner who burns 3-4 cords a year, the catalytic stove will save about 1 cord every 2 years, which basically pays for a cat replacement, but many folks get more like 12-20 cords per cat, so it's cheaper to run the catalytic stove long term if you pay for wood. Hybrid Soapstone stoves are the best fire-viewing stoves IMO. These can be burned at a steady rate with beautiful flaming combustion, but absorb that heat into the stones and release it slower. Much lower surface temps during the hottest part of the burn than a steel stove but it holds those temperatures more stable for hours after the fire has transitioned to coaling, making it much more comfortable to be in the room with or seated in front of the stove reading a book for hours. These modern secondary combustion steel stoves will often have surface temps of 800F or more, very high thermal radiation... Some people like this. It makes me sweat, no thanks. The hottest part of a soapstone stove will rarely go over 600F.

[@King_TuTT]

a few things you didn't mention. are the wood stoves pickey on the types of wood you can burn, such as pine? lot and lots of pine here in Michigan. and you have to replace that catalyst every year? I wanted something that is bullet proof with no needing of parts just in case the shit hits the fan and you can't get parts.

[@yolo_burrito]

I live in South Florida and only have to turn on the resistive heat in my central AC about 2 nights a year but an fascinated by these wood burners on YT.

[@HillBilly-wc4dl]

I didn't hear you mention one of the BEST features of the Blaze Kings. The automatic air control !!!! That works like a thermostat for a furnace and automatically adjusts the air supply damper to maintain constant temperatures throughout the burn cycle. This one feature of the Blaze Kings that I would never give up and of course it helps that they are the longest burning wood stoves available. I have a Princess in my shop and a King Ultra in my house. I bought both of them new and still use them every burning season. The Princess is about 20 years old and the Ultra is 14 years old and both still work great.

[@henryhenry5897]

What size if of shop u heat and to what temp ? I’m trying to decide if it’s big enough for a 36x50x16 in Manitoba ca

[@louiswestfall9622]

Have you ever had to change out the catalytic combusters?

[@HillBilly-wc4dl]

My shop is 32 x 40 x11 and the princess is OK if I keep it going. I only have R20 insulation in the ceiling. I would suggest getting the Blaze King "King" for the shop if it is reasonably well insulated. I have a King in the house and it heats the whole house, up and down until it gets really cold (-30C) then I have to add some electric help. House is about 1300 square ft up and same down.@@henryhenry5897

[@HillBilly-wc4dl]

@@louiswestfall9622 The one in the shop was changed out when we moved here 14 years ago and its still in use today. The one in the house was changed out twice. The first time because my moron electrician thought it would be a good idea to throw some plastic into the stove while it was burning. Ruined the combuster and he paid for the replacement . The second time was about 7 years ago because I was having draught problems and thought the combuster wasn't working properly. Turned out it was not a combuster issue.

[@henryhenry5897]

@@HillBilly-wc4dl thanks for reply yes I’ll prob insulated it with 4“ closed cell sprayfoam about r25 wich is really outperforming any r40-50 fiber so I’d call it very well insulated ....

[@critical-thought]

I want a stove that can run secondary air when I want it, and catalytic when I want it. It is just an air routing problem … surely the engineering is not all that difficult?

[@GUEST-qw4te]

I agree. And its not that difficult to do.

[@critical-thought]

@@GUEST-qw4te I am seriously thinking of fabricating one myself. Just need to fond an old stove that is tall enough.

[@wobdeehomestead]

There are hybrid stoves out there now that have both secondary air and catalytic and from what I hear basically the cat will run on the lowest air setting and the secondaries kick in on the higher settings.

[@Strub3]

I have an Avalon wood burning insert that has both Catalyst and secondary air tubes. I like it. I have had it for 7 years now.

[@daroccot]

Could you comment about flu gas temperature and creosote build-up?

[@timmackinnon5547]

Great video. Answered most of my questions.

[@SirCamsmorethanalot]

How clean do the flues compare on the two? We have a secondary air burning Englander and love it. Flue is completely clean and do not need to chimney sweep. So your left stove burns for 10 hours while the catalytic one goes for 30. Are those 30 hours of smoldering wood? It would seem that way but does the catalyst last through a typical winter? Seems like it would clog up quickly with slow burning wood. We get a good blaze going in the evening then shut the draught down. Still toasty in the morning and often coals can be stirred up to ignite a new fire (depends how much wood was stoked in there the night before). Tip: we strip bark (that is loose on properly seasoned hardwood) to start a new fire with coals. If ashes are cold, we use a parrafin/sawdust block below the bark and a bit of kindling with split wood on top. I vote for secondary air combustion, especially Englander, an amazing stove and shame I heard they went bankrupt.

[@lindamcentaffer5969]

I wonder if that Catalyst makes the air outside smell like a Flatulant? Back in the 80s, I built a stove from a piece of 18" pipe. Had a top Horizontal 6" exhaust, a large baffle forcing the exhaust to go around the ends before exiting into the Flue, (which was 20 feet tall). Since the Stove was ROUND, there was no need for Fire Brick to keep the corners from splitting open, and it made a LOT of heat. Round stoves make the fire fall into itself, so burns are much more complete. After 5 YEARS, I swept my flue pipe, to get 1/8 cup of tan dust. NONE of these new square stoves would do that. But thanks for the good info. Nice video.

[@Indeewoods]

Very interesting comment! I built a small 16” long stove out of oilfield pipe. 3/8” thick I believe and about 14” wide pipe. Anyway with that stove I never ran a brush through the chimney in 4 years of burning half dry and often green wood ( to gain burn times). Creosote would collect in the top of my chimney cap but that’s it. Then I moved into a house and had a secondary air style stove. One of the best ( Super 27). Now I clean my chimney once a month and I use seasoned wood on top of that. I run it very hot often but it still stays pretty dirty in the pipe. I wonder if the round stove vs my square style stove plays a roll.

[@mikafoxx2717]

To me it looks like secondary air is the way to go - they don't stop burning efficiently unwarranted because something wore out. But there's also two different types of efficiency that are not the same. Burning efficiency is how fully combusted the fuel is - less carbon monoxide, smoke, and less excess air. As good as that is, if all of that extra heat goes out the chimney, it's still inefficient. In masonry heaters, they trap far more of that heat out of the exhaust and vent it cool enough that it couldn't boil water. Wood stoves often rely on showing down the burn so it has more dwell time in the small stove, but a slow burn is effectively a colder less efficient burn; these two technologies are Band-Aids to that problem. Rocket mass and masonry heaters really have a better system of burning that wood faster and hotter, and then capturing and releasing the bulk of it over 24 hours. Why worry about keeping it going if you only need to burn the stove for an hour a day for consistent heat? For long term installation, I would recommend looking into making a masonry or batch box rocket mass heater, you can find plans ready made online or custom build one for the space, as long as the foundation can support the weight. Unlike a stove, in most places they can be built yourself and don't need EPA testing as long as it fits the legal definition of masonry heater.

[@migueljose2944]

totally agree. I've been building and using masonry heaters since 2008. The main challenge for most is the weight of the mass which is needed to hold the heat. If your floor can handle the weight and you insulate/isolate the pad masonry heaters and rocket stove variations are the best.

[@mikafoxx2717]

@@migueljose2944 Yeah, it's too bad that they need such a foundation. But, having a quick look at the amount of wood they need to run a Russian brick stove for a day, versus even smaller wood stoves to attempt to heat a house. The Russian ones never soot up dangerously because they use smaller wood and burn it with more air, instead of holding lots of big wood and nearly smothering it to try to extract the heat before it goes up the chimney. On another note, small split firewood like northern European countries use, dry much faster, easily within a season, and are much easier for elderly or young to move into the house or put in the stove.

[@jeffhaayema9400]

We own a blaze king sirocco , and we have owned many different types through our 30 years of heating with wood and we have owned a secondary air stove as well , and as far we are concerned there is nothing more efficient than a catalyst wood stove , for heating with the least amount of wood it is the way to go . We heat from October to May and on our coldest season we only used 6 face cords of wood .

[@elkhunter3382]

how large and how well insulated is your home. I will likely be ordering one of these stoves next week. I live in a well insulated 1,200 sq. bottom floor, 600 sq. top floor home.

[@jeffhaayema9400]

@@elkhunter3382 Our house is 1100 sq/ft on one floor and has R27 in the walls and R60 in the ceiling .

[@michaelbacon5741]

Great video. Very informative! Where does the secondary air generally pull from? Specifically asking for our Jotul Oslo F500 secondary air stove. It’s hard to tell where the pipes draw from.

[@brettadams417]

If you burn as primary and or only source of heat catalyst is the way to go…I would get a pellet stove before a secondary air. Don’t see any purpose for the secondary air unless is just for funzos or something

[@darrylm3627]

Good Stuff, Great Tips👍🏿😀

[@MrZipperhead16]

I run my stove to heat my house. I don't care how efficient a stove burns, I care about heat output. The 'gee my stove can go 30 hours' means nothing when you need a sweater.

[@tinmaninc2023]

I agree to a point. Turn a secondary air stove down on low fire and it too will not heat your home. Cat stoves are no different. How we burn during the day is different then we do at night. Only difference is cat stove can be left of medium draft and you still have wood left over in the morning. Try leaving a secondary air stove on medium when you go to bed and you will wake up to a very cold stove and and very cool home.

[@colleenthomas353]

What happened to us when we had a catalytic stove was our chimney ran so cold as so much of the heat was removed by the stove that we got much water from the wood running down the chimney that made a mess. Stove worked too well that we just could not keep enough heat in the chimney despite burning dry seasoned hard wood.

[@duanehamdorf2228]

Me too. Sucks.

[@vinquinn]

I had a similar problem. I replaced the old chimney with a really well insulated stainless steel one. Problem solved, no condensation.

[@colleenthomas353]

@@vinquinn We had a new triple wall stainless steel chimney too but the moisture came from the wood even tho it was 2 year old hard wood stored inside

[@vinquinn]

@@colleenthomas353 Condensation occurs when the flue gases are not hot enough to heat the chimney. Maybe the stove or the catalytic is clogged up inside somewhere and is not running hot enough. Maybe your house is too airtight and the stove is not drawing properly. Hard to say, you should check things out one at a time.

[@colleenthomas353]

@@vinquinn Thanks- the catalytic converter was new as was the stove and it ran hot like the dealer and owners manual said it should-worked so well that not enough heat made it into the chimney. The house was an older house on a lake not that air tight. Don't get me wrong the stove heated the house great and the wood lasted much longer than the old box stove but the dealer and us could not stop the moisture problem. We ended up selling the house so I don't know how the new owners made out.

[@HARVIELL1]

Think I'll just stick with my old Fireview stove . It does a good job. Not so fancy.

[@briangilmore2256]

I’ve been burning a hobby stove in my ice fishing hut for a few years now. No ice fishing has me wanting a wood burner in the house. Best video I’ve found talking about the difference in modern stoves. Thanks.

[@KP11520]

What I don't get is why nobody discusses feeding whichever stove with only air from outside via a duct system and not sending heated air out the chimney. The next level of efficiency.

[@LifesLaboratory]

Cold outside air would cool the fire. I honestly don't think there would be much of a difference.

[@KP11520]

@@LifesLaboratory That's ridiculous! Never mind the draw that feeds the fire pulling the exhaust from the heating system back into the airtight house.

[@LifesLaboratory]

@@KP11520 A house should never be airtight (I don't know about you, but I enjoy a bit of oxygen). In terms of thermodynamics, it really doesn't matter too much where the air comes from (whether from the room or from a direct duct, it is ultimately coming from the outside). What I don't understand is how a direct duct would prevent heated air leaving through the chimney. The fire would still need to heat this air in order to heat the stove and thus heat the room. "Never mind the draw that feeds the fire pulling the exhaust from the heating system back into the airtight house." I have no idea what you are attempting to say here. The fire is the heating system. How is it pulling it's own exhaust and how is it introducing this into the house? A wood stove should never exhaust into the house.

[@tomrunning357]

Make up air from outside would be needed on a tight house and would be beneficial to cutting down on drafts on a not so tight house.

[@annaaron3510]

Fine presentation. We had Vermont Casting cat stoves for 2 decades when they first came out. Except for parts replacement the 3 VC Encores were fine heaters for primary heat in Maine. When the last Encores became too costly and time to repair we tried the "NEW AND IMPROVED" Flexburn models with the same form factor as old Encores. They did not function and were dangerous since the primary air controls malfunctioned on 2 Encore Flexburns with uncontrollable fires. The dealer ( a true pro ) refunded the full costs and took the stoves back. VC corporate was AWOL, even angry. Blaze King was on the agenda but high $$$$ and it would not fit our clearances since their thermostatic control at the rear needed too much spacing. The choice for the past 5+ years has been 2 Jotul Rangelys ( no longer made) non cats for 99% primary heat ( we have no central heat or thermostat like most set at say 65 F ) with NO problems including original gaskets and air tubes. We are home often enough to load when needed for heat. JMNSHO

[@61603firemed]

excellent info, super appreciated

[@alanjones5639]

Very helpful information. Thanks!

[@bwiseok]

This is extremely helpful. It would be nice to know what the price difference is between these two stoves I know they would vary from state to state but it would be nice to have a general idea. And do these stoves come in smaller models. You mentioned this heats a 2500 square-foot home which would be too large for what I’m looking for.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Yes they come in smaller models and the prices are close depending on the brand you choose.

[@Bryanmoroughan]

I have a 2021 lopi liberty, throws great heat easy to light with the green start, but I'm constantly filling it, last year I burned 12 face cord, but this year i'm already at 10 face cord and we havent hit the dead of winter yet. I am gone from 530 am till 6pm everyday for work, and gone most weekends, and when I come home, my house is colder than I want, so my question is would a princess help me out with my issues? Thanks

[@tinmaninc2023]

I think so. We have customers with the PE32 and they fill it up every 12 hours.

[@AdrenalineRushMX]

my wood stove is 86 years old and do just fine maybe one day i will buy a new catalyctic stove

[@jackmclane1826]

I think there is a misconception here. A catalytic converter oven needs the same amount of oxygen (and thus air) for a complete burn than any other stove. The cat can't make oxygen. It just forces the reaction between remainin combustables and the oxygen that also must be in the flu gasses. I don't know these stoves and can't say anything about burn times or efficiencies... But it seems like the Blaze King is just a slower burning stove. Which can be awesome, no question.

[@tinmaninc2023]

Yes, less air equals slower burning.

[@tommygunn2118]

Could you discuss what the burn rate of the catalytic stove turned up to flat out or did I miss that bit. Do they generate the same heat per hour when turned up to max. Thank you.

[@wkgurr]

But what does the catalyst actually do with the gases coming from the burning (smoldering) wood)?? By what mechanism does it produce heat i.e. make the oven more efficient? And those small tubes in the catalyst - don't they get clogged with soot pretty quickly?

[@Food-Fire-and-Featherboards]

The catalyst, once it is up to its operating temp, actually 'reacts' with the smoke. It's actually a chemical reaction with the smoke, same as the way the catalytic converter in your car reacts with your car's exhaust. This reaction creates primarily two things: heat and water vapour, with only minor impurities (emissions) remaining. No, there should be no soot build up in a secondary air tube. No exhaust goes through these tubes, just fresh air. (They are the conduit for the stove's secondary air supply.) They can degrade and burn through in time though and would then need to be replaced. (Just like the burn tubes in a BBQ.) Cheers!

[@yannih1782]

Thankyou for a very informative video. But you left out a very important point regarding these two fire places that people should be aware of before making a decision on either. Maintenance! The secondary fire place has minimal maintenance where as the catalytic fire place has much more required maintenance that has a fair cost associated with it due to cleaning/replacing the catalytic unit that is made of quite expensive materials. Happy to be corrected if I am not on the money here...

[@tinmaninc2023]

I think there is some merit to what you are saying to a point. It really comes down to the type of wood burnt. Well seasoned wood and barely any issues, unseasoned wood and plenty of issues for both. Depending on brand of stove secondary air stoves can be expensive to replace parts as well. Secondary air tubes and baffles often get broken and need to be replaced so both types of stoves can cost $$$ in maintenance. Hence why its not mentioned.

[@richardshort4587]

For me the ambiance of flames 🔥 is important. The long slow burn I doubt would give a pleasing glow and offer that much desired effect. I could see it being useful for overnight heat, we used to bank up our open coal fire and turn off the draft so it baked the coal and the crust formed kept the house toasty warm then in the morning break the crust and away it would go. Thanks for explaining the two.

[@johndunn9819]

thanks for clearing that up.

[@xyzsame4081]

If you have a big fire going you always lose a lot of energy via the chimney (except if that rush of energy goes into a heat exchanger and a hot water tank, you have one short and intense fire, let that go out, and then use central heating). On the other hand you _can_ have an ongoing "smouldering" fire with the catalytic stove. Smouldering normally is not the right way to burn wood. Burning it with high heat (dry wood !) is the most energy efficient wise and generally the cleanest (with NOx catalysators) - but ONLY if you have a heat exchanger and a system with a water tank. The traditional tiled stoved with a lot of mass are also pretty good. There seem to be rocket heaters with surrounding mass (earth ? sand ?) that imitate that. Fouch Family off the Grid has built such a stove.

[@sunnybeech74]

All I have is an old Timberline fireplace insert with legs welded on it to make it a freestanding stove in the basement. It has the traditional stovepipe with a heat exchanger about a foot and a half above the stovetop. I have a fan behind the heat exchanger, into the air cavity around and above the stove and one free standing behind the stove. It does a very good job of helping heat the hose.

[@tinmaninc2023]

That's a great idea but unfortunately modifying a certified appliance is not approved by manufacturers as it voids any clearances that they are tested for.

[@sunnybeech74]

@@tinmaninc2023 You're most likely right but the guy who installed it ran a stove&fireplace shop in town and had a reputation for knowing what he was talking about and he assured me the clearances were all fine. That was almost 20 years ago and it's still heating great. Only problem that came up was the stovepipe was pretty tall and it was difficult getting the initial updraft started on really cold days. A draft fan installed on the pipe solved that.

[@burtvhulberthyhbn7583]

I have a jotul 600 "secondary air" stove. It easily maintains a fire overnight. I also have unlimited quantities of various types of oak firewood. This allows me to heat my house with a 28 ft vaulted ceiling with 24 ft of vertical single wall pipe.

[@lrich9317]

Do you know why they stopped making the jotul 600 ? I couldn't find one anywhere! I'm stuck with buying the 500 in October 2023

[@spencerwilton5831]

All most people need know is overall efficiency, and it wasn't mentioned in this video! Looking online a catalytic blaze king is around 80 percent, which falls quite a bit short of the efficiency of the best non catalytic European stoves! Catalysts are a compromise, designed to allow wood to be burned slowly - a practice long understood to be the least efficient and certainly the dirtiest way to burn. There is only so much heat available in every kilo of wood, and if you want to get as much of that into your room as possible overall efficiency is key. To that end a modern cleanburni g European stove without a cat is the answer. Who wants to spend a couple of hundred replacing a cat every couple of years while simultaneously burning less efficiently than possible?

[@tinmaninc2023]

I disagree, for one Europe has some of the worst efficiencies out there....so much so that they are working with North American manufacturers to get their numbers down. Secondly looking at efficiency numbers doesn't paint the proper picture of how a stove works in a home. Those numbers merely suggest what is going up the chimney and are not real world testing. As far as your comment on replacing catalyst that too is a myth created by many non-catalytic stove manufacturers who until the NSPS 2020 regulations came out were completely against them but now are trying to get their own stoves certified with cats. Hence the "hybrid" type stoves now on the market. Cat replace is no more expensive then baffle or air tube replacement on a secondary stove.

[@billparker8954]

>All most people need know is overall efficiency, and it wasn't mentioned in this video! You are right Spencer. Efficiency is paramount, and not even mentioned. He definitely extolled the long burn smokey stove, while not mentioning the expensive resale of the converter. Also no mention of lower output; important in cold climates. The hell with efficiency! Repeat sales!

[@safffff1000]

@John Apostoli You have no idea of real history, just hollywoods version. WW2 could of been completely avoided if not for the banksters promoting it with there insane policies like today. Even WW1 was manufactured. The technology and communication changed is what stopped the 20 yr wars. Not the USA which promoted the war. Had enforce the draft which got them over 2/3 of their men, USA people did not want the war. Excellent ploy to get white christains killing white christains, dumb.

[@aldobordi]

@@tinmaninc2023 I do not agree that European stoves has low efficiency. For instance, a Jotul F500 ECO has 86%.

[@reallywontsufferfools1620]

@@tinmaninc2023 now you need to look at n/european efficiency EU regulations are the strictest there are .no stoves can be made without a certain level of efficiency. normally 86% min.and must have clean air burn.

[@marcellemay7721]

This was a very informative video. The comment section was just as informative with lots of experiential comments from people that use wood stoves to heat their homes every year.

[@tomhenne50]

I have an Earth Stove brand that I've used since 1985. It has a catalytic converter in it but it smokes up the glass and you get smoke back up if not kept extremely hot. I burn mine open most of the time.

[@david-breitenfeld]

I had an Earth Stove, the catalytic converter didn't last long, and the replacement was expensive. I gave the stove to a friend - He didn't care about that.

[@gravelman5789]

😁😁😁😁 a catalytic stove is a GASIFIER.... 😆😆😉THANKS FOR YOU EXPLAINATION!

[@victoryfirst2878]

Would you tell me what is the diameter of the holes and how many that are on the top secondary air burn on left ??? The tubes look like 3/4 inch diameter, am I correct on that fact ?? The catalyst blaze king, how long does the catalytic element last as you stated by type Sir ??? My last question is the safety of the glass door breaking or exploding causing a house fire ??? Would you give me a quote on each stove and shipping cost to eastern Pennsylvania Sir. Do these stoves come in larger sizes ??? Thanks a bunch and have a great day too. Look forward to do business with you fella. Peace vf

[@jimmungai1938]

My blaze king woodstove I had for years I still have I can go 12 14hrs. in between loading loading the stove upAlso you’re saving approximately 35% firewood using a blaze king woodstove the catalytic combuster

[@safffff1000]

I assume that would pay for a cat replacement in one yr if paid for wood for use all yr.

[@gretavains8707]

Amazing. Thank you very much. Bought the wrong stove. I am a Queenslander now living western NSW Australia. Winter is only short. However, wood is extremely expensive to buy. Oh well. I put my ceiling fan on reverse. That helps. Small cottage. It is warmer. However, not economical. $1,050.00 Australian dollars so far for wood? Down under Australia is not at all a cheap country to live in. I will be leaving country life too hard, expensive and boring. I live near Wyangla Dam. Closest town Cowra. WWll history here. Thank you very much. Great video. Very well explained. Fire box was $1,500.00 and too have it installed $900.00. All Australian dollars.

[@kenttsui6024]

Sure wish I had watched this video before getting my first wood stove! Not because I regret the secondary wood stove it did buy because by chance it is the type I do want! But at least I would have understood what the differences where haha. Thank you!

[@4helex]

The only time our Blaze King ever uses the bypass is once a year (or twice if we go on a holiday) . Then it doesn't ever get low enough temperatures to need too use the bypass. In the morning I just turn the air control up a bit, the flame immediately starts so I can see how much wood is left and often can go a couple more hours. We only add wood 3-4 times for 24 hours of comfort. My neighbour who I buy my seasoned wood from says ,You hardly use your wood stove? When I say we never turn it off he was confused because you can't see anything but moisture for several minutes after adding wood (10-14% moisture) - the rest of the time it is just heat waves. It seems like it defies physics. LOVE it! He had to come it to prove to him it was going. He couldn't believe it. NO fire! He said. Nope there doesn't need to be a fire - just let it smoulder. The difference between smoke between our stoves is like the difference between an old diesel truck and an electric car. Sadly we have to breathe his smoke. And he uses 3 times more wood than we do.

[@jackle842000]

What happens when you can go longer by a replacement catalyst for the stove? How long do these catalyst last? Does a catalyst really burn that long or is it just a bunch of bull specs? I can't imagine anything burning 30 hrs or even 20 for that matter on one load of wood. Lower for longer periods of time is exactly what I need but in concerned about replacing the catalyst etc. Can a catalyst replacement be made easily?

[@robertsaca3512]

I prefer secondary air, but those perforated tubes I've never seen before, they look like they'd rust out quickly,y stove has cast iron holes in a cast iron back. It's a 20 yrar old stove with virtually no maintenance.

[@srl1215]

There are also Hybrid stoves that take advantage of both technologies. Woodstock Soapstone based in Lebanon NH is a well know producer of those. There may be others as well, I'm just not sure.

[@TugHillGuy]

US EPA measures the high heat value (HHV) efficiency of wood stoves and bases tax credits on whether the stove has an HHV of at least 75%. The emissions rating in grams per hour measures how cleanly, not how efficiently the stove burns.

[@lostinmyspace4910]

I have a Lopi Liberty stove. My main goal is to keep our 2,000 sq. ft. home heated. We are home all the time in winter to maintain the stove. It has secondary burn tubes. One thing I don't mess with too much is the air/mix control lever at the bottom to either introduce more air or less air. Usually keep it open for hotter burning logs but once in a while have to damper it down because we got the stove too hot. So we cut the rate of oxygen coming inside the box. We never get an overnite burn, and have to relite the stove once again. I don't understand how people can get a 12 hour burn, and have hot coals to ignite fresh wood the next morning. Ours are just cold ash by morning.

[@erwinbrubacker7488]

We have Lopi, model ? Its in storage since we moved to the Carolinas. Average burn time 8 to 10 hrs, hot coals in mrng.

[@erwinbrubacker7488]

I belive its a Avalon.

[@wobdeehomestead]

Your wasting heat up the chimney if your running wide open all the time. Try filling the stove full, run wide open til the flames are strong then adjust air down to half for a bit then down to low. This should take 20-30 min with good dry wood. You should see good secondary flames from the gases and this should give you good heat and a longer burn. A stove thermometer is also a great tool to use to determine operating temps.

[@alanwolfe9390]

I had a catalytic stove at one time. The catalyst grid was constantly getting fouled with fly ash. Performance declined rapidly and It needed cleaned every few days. It also failed to work entirely after a few weeks and was expensive to replace. I now have a "secondary air" stove that I find entirely satisfactory.

[@brianperry4815]

That is the main reason why I will NEVER buy a woodstove with a catolithic convertor. Waste of money if you ask me. Not to mention the added cost on the stove.

[@captaincodebook3200]

What about creosote? Is there a difference? And the CAT smolders, so what does that do for it? What is the difference in maintenance and life of parts?

[@robcady8499]

The epa ratings he talked about at the beginning (grams/hour) relate to your creosote. The theory with both of these stoves is that you're burning off the smoke that would cause creosote, and therefore these stoves don't produce much compared to older models.

[@dougkubash8673]

Very informative!

[@calholli]

So I can take my old used CAT converter from my car and weld it into the top of my barrel stove. Cool, you gave me an idea. lol