Endless Punishment is not in the Bible

The assumption is that endless punishment is a critical church doctrine. But that goes against the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed which doesn't even mention the doctrine of endless punishment and it most certainly would have if it were critical church doctrine. The church fathers who gave us this creed had different opinions on that subject.
In this presentation I point out the problem with the concept of endless punishment in the Bible. Namely, the Bible never uses the expression "endless" or "without end" in relation to punishment. It uses the Hebrew Olam and the Greek aionios, both of which pertain to a particular age, being that of the age of the Messiah before the reign of the kingdom is handed back to the Father 1. Cor. 15. A finite period of time.
in context with Matt. 25:46 aionios is used to express both life and punishment. A few thoughts on that. First, the Greek word κόλασιν actually means "corrective discipline as opposed to retribution to satisfy the punisher." And endless correction is, well, nonsensical. Look it up in the Rotherham Bible.
Also, the Nicene Constantinopolitan creed, which nearly all Christians consider critical church doctrine says "we believe in the life of the age (world) to come". This referring to location not duration, this is merely when we obtain immortal life in Christ. Also adjectives are commonly juxtaposed contextually in a single sentence. Consider the following sentence:
"Although racism was an enduring part of early American history; God's love for all people is nevertheless an enduring quality of his nature."
So using the popular contextual reasoning for Matt. 25:46 I would have to conclude that unless racism endures forever then God's love doesn't endure forever. And I use that example because enduring actually is the definition of the Latin word eternal (aeternus) in Latin.
Well, see for yourself: www.perseus.tuf...

[@charleshines2142]

I simply can't imagine a merciful God punishing us for eternity. Many people would say it is out of character for God to do a thing like that to someone.

[@ianalan4367]

The eternity is what it is. We are to believe we are all created for eternity. We are to believe we will all spend eternity in the presence of God. I do not believe it is punishment for “God does not want a single soul to parish.” We tend to do that to ourselves. Check out a brief article titled “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman It is accessible on line. He does a very good job of offering a summary to what Christianity has always proclaimed. Peace always!

[@VictorianMaid99]

He is mercyful. Repent no or burn in hell later forever. That seems pretty merciful to me.

[@Thin447Line]

You're missing the whole point of the gospel. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels. God doesn't send anybody to hell. Everybody that will end up there, got there all on their own. That is what we all deserve (Rom 3:9-18; 6:23). And yes, it is eternal. God's mercy is He gives you a free ticket OUT OF HELL forever. All you have to do is believe in Christ's finished work on the cross. Honestly, the utter biblical illiteracy among so-called Christians today is astounding. The apostacy of 2 Thess 2 is truly beginning to manifest.

[@nikokapanen82]

@@Thin447Line Do you know how most Christians claim that all people justly deserve to burn alive forever and ever, that when God will throw almost all people, He created into the flames of fire to burn them forever and ever, that will be a complete justice and nothing else. This, of course, means that all people are infinitely less worthy and infinitely more despicable than a parasite or a cockroach is because no parasite or a cockroach deserve to be burned alive forever and ever. Yet remember how God spoke to Moses about the Hebrews, His people, how He saw their suffering and misery and oppression for being badly mistreated by the Egyptian owners. These Hebrews were not holy angels, no, they were bad sinners themselves that according to most Christians justly deserve to burn alive in flames of fire forever and ever. Yet God says that He sees their oppression their cry and suffering and that He will put an end to it. How is this making any sense? Do you see the problem? According to most Christians, people deserve to burn alive forever and ever, that this is justice, yet when Egyptians were oppressing and mistreating Hebrews with an infinitely lesser suffering than the lake of fire, God was feeling their pain and decided to act and put an end to their oppression. Think about it, how can beings who are so evil that they justly deserve to be burned alive forever and ever, be mistreated by the Egyptians? Mistreating somebody means treating them in a way that they do not deserve to be treated, so how can people who deserve to burn alive for eternity, be mistreated by simply being slaves that are beaten from time to time? Imagine a guy who would be robbing elderly ladies by beating them to unconscious condition on a regular basis and then would get caught and would get 3 years prison time. Would you say "how horrible, 3 long years in prison, poor guy, this is mistreatment" or would you say "3 years? that little, he deserves much more than that"? The point I try to make is that if somebody truly deserves a massive judgment because he is that evil, him getting a little bit of judgment should not make us feel bad at all in any way or form. In the same way, if those Hebrews were such despicable sinners that they justly deserve to be burned alive forever and ever, then them being mistreated a little bit by the Egyptians should be nothing at all. So, I have a serious question, which one is true: those Hebrews were despicable sinners infinitely less worthy than a parasite is, who justly deserve to be burned alive forever and ever? Or were they poor victims of an oppression and mistreatment by the evil Egyptians who did not deserve such treatment? Both cannot be right because they contradict each other.

[@michaelshevlane9132]

Every knee is going to bow, my friend. You may not believe it now, but will eventually. All things are being submitted to the Father through Jesus Christ, and it is glorious!

[@madmarvcr]

I came to this conclusion that punishment is not endless a while back before finding your channel. Finding your channel has strengthened my belief. It has given me the ability to verbalize universal salvation to friends and family. Thanks. Don’t be discouraged. You’ve became a go to channel.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Thank you for that, that means a lot to me. This is often thankless work.

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Daniel 12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Exodus 32:33 "And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."

[@madmarvcr]

@divinelightshine …into “aionios” punishment.. aionios is very long time, not eternal, not forever.

[@madmarvcr]

@@MichaelServantOfChrist …torment ascends “aion” and “aion”… Aion is a period of time, not forever

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

@@madmarvcr So apply the same logic to when it says that we have life aion to aion. Life with Christ is not forever if you do that. Are you willing to do that and run contrary to the Scriptures?

[@therealfain]

Gods very law does not allow for endless punishment. He places a limit on ALL punishment and judgements in the law. If he assigns some of His creation to endless torment He breaks His own law. His judgements are corrective in nature.

[@VictorianMaid99]

I think you read that wrong

[@therealfain]

@@VictorianMaid99 take another peek my friend. The law either calls for restitution to be made (not prison) or the death penalty. When restitution cannot be made on this earth you are put to death and the case is sent to a higher court

[@therealfain]

@@VictorianMaid99 and regardless your debt to the law, every slave is set free in the year of the jubilee

[@VictorianMaid99]

@@therealfain are we slaves to sin then?

[@therealfain]

@@VictorianMaid99 if you are in Christ you are a slave to sin no longer. Your spirit is perfected and seated with Him

[@lovereigns4017]

Your research and work is beyond reproach. Thank you once again

[@bradvincent2586]

In the precious name of Jesus, may this be correct 🙏

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

It is. God isn't leaving anyone behind. It may take longer for many but they'll eventually come home.

[@bradvincent2586]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 thanks for the reply. why is it so hard to let go of the idea of hell. For me it has to be the plain passages in the Bible that people have quoted to me my whole life. But if ECT isn’t true, the story of all of reality is far more amazing and far more important than I could have ever imagined. But to think that that’s really possible? Well, even the possibility has relieved my depression. I sincerely thank people like you for being willing to be ridiculed. For what it’s worth, earth is flat. Witsit Gets It and Dave Weiss will probably convince you within a couple weeks. Every question can be answered. And it squares with the Bible better. It’s truly amazing. Anyway, why would I trust people telling me about a future state of existence when they can’t even see the plain truth about where we live right now? I realize this point probably doesn’t apply to you, but it holds water for me. Earth pictures are fake, astronauts have been seen hanging from wires, moon landing was obviously faked, and we can see too far. Sunsets, seasons, GPS, satellites, snipers, airplanes can all easily be explained with those two guys I mentioned. Plus way more. Hope it’s beneficial. It was for me. But yeah having to let go of the globe and face the trauma of coming out of a lie feels way harder with the topic of hell than it does with flat earth. It takes a certain painful adjustment in one’s brain and gut to fully feel safe again when your reality gets so twisted. It’s why I want the peace that surpasses understanding. But I also want the understanding. Thanks for being a part of that. All I can do is ask God to reveal the truth. But yeah at this point if I believed in ECT I would be too depressed to function. Thanks for reading. Felt good

[@Thin447Line]

In the precious name of Jesus, READ YOUR BIBLE!!!! You can know this IS NOT CORRECT and flee from those who teach this false baloney!

[@jhq9064]

At divinelatin,, get a better translation! It's age abiding or age during, not "eternal ".

[@jhq9064]

@Thin441 what translation? Read a better Bible translation that doesn't mistranslated aionios, thank you.

[@carlwilliams4498]

I used to believe in endless punishment for a long time, most of my time as a Christian, however, in the last few years it has become increasingly evident that many of the things I was taught as an early Christian are either untrue or somewhat unsupported by scripture. I believe the Holy Spirit is illuminating scripture to those who want clear discernment but many do not want an account that doesn't match what they were taught regardless of the guidance of the Holy Spirit

[@VictorianMaid99]

You have to be kidding me. If there is no eternal hell what is the point?

[@ianalan4367]

carlwilliams4498 - There are many distortions of Christianity we have been taught. Fortunately, there is written doctrine from the early Church so we can determine. Consider looking up “Is Hell Real by Stephan Freeman” It’s a short very well written article that sums up condemnation rather well. This is the view the apostles taught.

[@GregS4Jesus]

If people are not tortured forever than any lessre ounishment " doesnt count"? Better hope you are not judged according to your heart.

[@freethinker77]

​@@VictorianMaid99 I don't follow your logic. Are you suggesting that there is no point in avoiding pain if it's temporary?

[@VictorianMaid99]

@@derekm9527 yea

[@nikokapanen82]

Every person who believes that tormenting someone forever and ever is justice, must go to that torment himself, however, not for eternity, only for a time until he learns not to blaspheme justice.

[@michaelshevlane9132]

Amen - love fulfills the law, so love itself is the highest form of justice. As we saw on the cross of our dear Lord Himself.

[@dutchmcgee101]

Thanks for your videos brother.

[@unidospelowifi]

Keep spreading the truth. God has revealed this very thing for me.

[@inpursuitoftruth4905]

Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

[@derekm9527]

inpursuitoftruth Now go and read Rev 14: 9 - 11 in a properly translated Bible. Try the Rotherham Emphasized Bible, the Young's literal translation or the Weymouth New Testament. I don't understand why some of you guys in the comment section keep using examples from Bibles that were not translated properly. The whole point of this man's channel is to help people see the truth, and to point out the mistranslations of alot of the Bibles being used today.

[@timothywalters23]

My thought is that while yes, out sins we commit on this side of eternity are finite, it never says that people who go to hell stop sinning. And because they are therefore always sinning, they always receive punishment.

[@VictorianMaid99]

Hell is forever and for sinners

[@ianalan4367]

Look up “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman It’s not a punishment. It’s a state of our soul. Jesus Christ came that we may be redeemed. God does not send us to Hell, He is attempting to save us from it. Peace!

[@VictorianMaid99]

@@ianalan4367 it still burns and is still forever.

[@ianalan4367]

VictorianMaid99 - Yea, God created mankind to dwell in His love forever. How some them think condemnation would not be the eternal state of our soul is beyond me. It’s forever. The flames of hell? I believe with all my heart they are real. I’m just not sure they are material flames. Check out the article mentioned above if you can. That said it may be worse than material flames. Hell may not be a place as much as a state of our soul but it’s forever and is is torment beyond what we can imagine, I would think. I just don’t believe God sends us there as punishment. We put ourselves there which is what God calls out to us to try and prevent. “Repent now for the Kingdom is at hand” Peace to you brother!

[@GregS4Jesus]

s 224 Add a comment... @madmarvcr 20 hours ago I came to this conclusion that punishment is not endless a while back before finding your channel. Finding your channel has strengthened my belief. It has given me the ability to verbalize universal salvation to friends and family. Thanks. Don’t be discouraged. You’ve became a go to channel. Read more 12 38 The Total Victory of Christ Show more replies @lovereigns4017 8 hours ago Your research and work is beyond reproach. Thank you once again 7 The Total Victory of Christ @bradvincent2586 21 hours ago In the precious name of Jesus, may this be correct 🙏 9 4 The Total Victory of Christ Show more replies @unidospelowifi 3 hours ago Keep spreading the truth. God has revealed this very thing for me. @charleshines2142 12 hours ago I simply can't imagine a merciful God punishing us for eternity. Many people would say it is out of character for God to do a thing like that to someone. 7 3 Show more replies @carlwilliams4498 7 hours ago I used to believe in endless punishment for a long time, most of my time as a Christian, however, in the last few years it has become increasingly evident that many of the things I was taught as an early Christian are either untrue or somewhat unsupported by scripture. I believe the Holy Spirit is illuminating scripture to those who want clear discernment but many do not want an account that doesn't match what they were taught regardless of the guidance of the Holy Spirit Read more 5 3 Show more replies @inpursuitoftruth4905 5 hours ago Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Read more 5 @dutchmcgee101 23 hours ago Thanks for your videos brother. 6 The Total Victory of Christ @bethezebra 2 hours ago What would you say to someone who was lifted out of their fleshly body during a near death experience and shown a hell reality? As a non-believer, something similar happened to me, which is how I came to Christ and why I left my life of hedonism and abusing others. The warnings in the book of Jude subsequently made sense to me. Anyway, because I'm part of the NDE community, I know several people who gave their lives to Jesus after experiencing hell or demonic beings out of body. Just looking for your take on that issue, on what happened to us. Not here to argue at all - even in the NDE community there is no true consensus, and experiences can vary greatly. So, just interested in your viewpoints there... Thanks! 🙏 Read more 2 @Shaggymerc77 15 hours ago (edited) So I brought this question up to one of my Greek friends. He said that Aionios does mean eternal. At least in modern Greek, I didn't get around to asking him about the use of it in Koine Greek or if it has always been an absolute term. If it has not always been an absolute term, could you provide some sources of it's historical use? Perhaps some times where it was used to describe something in Greek literature in reference to something not eternal? I tried searching for articles but all of them were biased either to refute or support ECT. On Wiktionary it did give some alternative definitions that match Young's literal translation, but it was one of the only unbiased sources I could find. I do think there's enough scriptural evidence to support Final Reconciliation, but I am hung up on the lack of certainty of the word Aionios. 3 6 @ianalan4367 10 hours ago I believe eternal is accurate as we are all created in God’s imagine eternally. We are to believe we will all spend eternity in the presence of God. This could be heaven or hell depending upon the state of our soul. I do not believe He’ll is a punishment though. Look up “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman. It is a short article that correctly depicts what Christianity has always proclaimed. It is a substantially different view than the Hell Fire & Brimstone punishment many of us have grown up with. Peace to all! 2 @madmarvcr 9 hours ago @Shaggymerc77 Read Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10. …every knee shall bow… …every tongue shall confess God. Philippians goes on to say… in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. Not some knees, not almost all knees, these passages say every knee shall bow. Next, 1 Corinthians 15:28, all things will be subjected to Christ, then Christ will handover to God, so God can be made all in all. Not some, not almost all, but ALL. Now, let’s assume “aion” does mean forever, punishment will be forever if you don’t bow your knee to Christ, or confess with your tongue. But the Bible assures us, every knee shall bow. However, each individual has there own timeline to confess Christ. Those that don’t confess before Armageddon, will be thrown in Gehenna, Fiery Furnace, Hellfire, Lake of Fire, or any other euphemism for Hellfire. Fire and brimstone is for purifying, not punishment every minute. What we can glean from this, some people/angels/demons will take a very long time to eventually confess Christ, but eventually ALL will confess. Even Satan. Christ beats Satan, 10,000,000,000+ to Satan’s 0. Christ’s victory will be TOTAL. All in All 4 @thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 8 hours ago Semantic shift is why "aionios" means "eteranal" in modern Greek. The irony is however is that the Latin word eternal spelled aeternus in Latin, also means "of an age". Ref: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%3Aentry%3Daeternus 6 @VictorianMaid99 3 hours ago I have heard this before from a guy on the radio. He said the law of thermal dynamics proves hell was not forever @ianalan4367 3 hours ago VictorianMaid99 - How do we know the laws of thermodynamics applies to the afterlife? Hell as I understand it is more a state of one’s soul. How exactly does thermodynamics measure that?! 1 @VictorianMaid99 3 hours ago @ianalan4367 this is why I stopped listening. The radio show is called "The Narrows Way" originating from Temecula CA. I guess being from CA explains a lot. @timothywalters23 6 hours ago My thought is that while yes, out sins we commit on this side of eternity are finite, it never says that people who go to hell stop sinning. And because they are therefore always sinning, they always receive punishment. 2 4 @VictorianMaid99 3 hours ago Hell is forever and for sinners @ianalan4367 3 hours ago Look up “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman It’s not a punishment. It’s a state of our soul. Jesus Christ came that we may be redeemed. God does not send us to Hell, He is attempting to save us from it. Peace! 1 @VictorianMaid99 3 hours ago @ianalan4367 it still burns and is still forever. @GregS4Jesus 1 second ago If you still say it meams etermal then you have "His mercy endures forever" combinedbwith "mercy triumphs over judgeement" and I t looks like your hearts desire to enjoy the majority tormented forrver will not come true for you. But one day you also will have Gods heart who desires tgat all are saved and come to knowledge of the truth. Praise God!

[@ronm6349]

I agree 100% Also there is no litteral fire in hell bless you brother

[@chadpugh443]

Doesnt the bible say the bad fish will be thrown in a fiery furnace? And what about weeping and nashing of teeth or they will be tormented day and night forever and ever with no rest? If universal salvation were true what stops the wicked from being wicked if they go to heaven anyways? Y would jesus waste his time comin to earth to save us if we were going to heaven anyways? I pray universal salvation is true but reality tells me its not. But I'm not god either.

[@leftstanding]

@@chadpugh443 Firely furnace is symbolic, like the lake of fire, to mean purification of impurities. What stops the wicked from being wicked is their own repentance, and until then their hell (the joyous suffering of being wicked) goes on for as long as necessary. Jesus didn't come to save us from God, but from ourselves. If God's wish is that all be saved, then so it will be. His will trumps our own.

[@djokampungtz2108]

@@leftstanding while yes there is some symbology here, its also very literal too in Isaiah 34:9-10

[@chadpugh443]

@@leftstanding my point is why would they repent if they going to heaven anyways? And it does say tormented day and night forever and ever. If forever doesn't mean forever why wouldn't jesus say put in a fiery furnace until your cleansed? I'm not trying to disregard what your sayin I just want to understand better

[@chadpugh443]

@@leftstanding I guess what I'm trying to say is if someone is living in sin and believes they can repent n be cleansed after death then y not do whatever they want while on earth?

[@bethezebra]

What would you say to someone who was lifted out of their fleshly body during a near death experience and shown a hell reality? As a non-believer, something similar happened to me, which is how I came to Christ and why I left my life of hedonism and abusing others. The warnings in the book of Jude subsequently made sense to me. Anyway, because I'm part of the NDE community, I know several people who gave their lives to Jesus after experiencing hell or demonic beings out of body. Just looking for your take on that issue, on what happened to us. Not here to argue at all - even in the NDE community there is no true consensus, and experiences can vary greatly. So, just interested in your viewpoints there... Thanks! 🙏

[@nikokapanen82]

I experienced the damnation of hell in 2012 as well. Also saw partially Hades and demons torturing a human soul there. Hades is not God's place of punishing sinners, no, it is a kingdom that began to exist after Satan and his angels rebelled against God in the beginning of time. It is their world; it is a world of pure evil and unfortunately it is a world where humans began to go after tasting the fruit of knowledge. This world, even though feels as if it is eternal when you are in there, is finite in reality, it will be destroyed eventually.

[@freethinker77]

It should be noted that universal salvation as a doctrine doesn't need to deny the existence of hell. What is being contested is only the idea a person in hell will be tortured forever.

[@bethezebra]

@@freethinker77 yes, got it.

[@Waxican]

I though a vast majority of NDE stories include people going to a peaceful afterlife where they are told there is no correct religion?

[@bethezebra]

@@Waxican you'd be surprised in how much they can vary. my takeaway is that the spiritual world is bigger than we can imagine and just because you experienced a droplet doesn't mean you understand the ocean.

[@jameslanning347]

In His discourse on the Final Judgement (the sheep and the goats) in Matthew 25, Jesus concludes by saying that those on His left (the unrighteous) will be thrown into the eternal fire with the Devil and his angels and that they will go into κόλασιν αἰώνιον (eternal punishment/retribution) while those on the right (the righteous) will go into ζωὴν αἰώνιον (eternal life). I know that you make the point that αἰώνιον can be used to mean "a very long time", but if you make this point, then you must conclude that eternal life is not Biblical either, and that after the Ressurection we just live for "a very long" because Jesus says ζωὴν αἰώνιον in the same sentence. So if you want to discredit the idea of eternal punishment you also have to throw away the idea of eternal life as well, but I don't think anyone here would make that argument. Furthermore, while Daniel 12 uses the word עוֹלָ֔ם (olam) in the Masoretic text (OT Hebrew), in the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testement) Daniel uses the phrases ζωὴν αἰώνιον (eternal life) and αἰσχύνην αἰώνιον (everlasting contempt/shame/dishonor). The Septuagint is actually older than the Masoretic Text (the Masoretic text was written in the 6th century AD), and the Septuagint was what the Gospel writers were likely using when they recorded the Gospels, since many of their quotes match the Septuagint verbatim. My intentions are not to destroy anyone's hope, but if we take the Word of God seriously (which is also described as עוֹלָ֔ם "olam" in Isaiah 40:8 "the word of God stands forever/to eternity") we must except all of it and not try to read things into the text. God's peace to all of you

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

That's a fair criticism, in context with Matt. 25:46 aionios is used to express both life and punishment. A few thoughts on that. First, the Greek word *κόλασιν* actually means "corrective discipline as opposed to retribution to satisfy the punisher." And endless correction is, well, nonsensical. Look it up in the Rotherham Bible. Also, the Nicene Constantinopolitan creed, which nearly all Christians consider critical church doctrine says "we believe in the life of the *age* (world) to come". This referring to location not duration, this is merely when we obtain immortal life in Christ. Also adjectives are commonly juxtaposed contextually in a single sentence. Consider the following sentence: "Although racism was an *enduring* part of early American history; God's love for all people is nevertheless an *enduring* quality of his nature." So using your contextual reasoning for Matt. 25:46 I would have to conclude that unless racism endures forever then God's love doesn't endure forever. And I use that example because *enduring* actually is the definition of the Latin word eternal (aeternus) in Latin. Well, see for yourself: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%3Aentry%3Daeternus Hopefully that gives you a little pause, but in any case I appreciate your restraint, I often get yelled at. God bless.

[@AlexLightGiver]

Jesus never said that. Religion have been lying to us for over a thousand years

[@Overcome321]

You’re over-intellectualizing it. It’s really not as challenging as you’re making it with your word studies. God would not be just without punishing sin. Punishment needs to be known to be punishment. People simply ceasing to exist don’t know anything so there’s no punishment there. I wished most of my life I could cease to exist. What do people need to be saved from if they cease to know anything. God is just.

[@Overcome321]

My comment wasn’t directed at you “jameslanning” but to the other guy.

[@nikokapanen82]

So, why then so many translators translate these words "kolasin aiōnion" as everlasting (retributive) punishment? I believe it is because they fall into one major flaw in their thinking. They believe that Matthew 25:46 talks about the end of this first order of things and the beginning of literal eternity. So, they reason that since this is the beginning of eternity then this punishment must be eternal. In reality this is not yet the beginning of eternity, this is still the old order of things, this is still our age where corruption and sinful order of things still exist even though sinners are in the process of being corrected. The real end of this sinful and corrupted order and the beginning of eternity will happen after the corrective punishment is complete, after God's wrath has been fully satisfied and sin is no more. Only then, as God Himself mentions in Isaiah and Revelation, He will make all things new so that the old order will not come to mind anymore because there will be nothing reminding us about it, no death no suffering, no evil of any sort would be left anywhere at all.

[@Shaggy7759]

So I brought this question up to one of my Greek friends. He said that Aionios does mean eternal. At least in modern Greek, I didn't get around to asking him about the use of it in Koine Greek or if it has always been an absolute term. If it has not always been an absolute term, could you provide some sources of it's historical use? Perhaps some times where it was used to describe something in Greek literature in reference to something not eternal? I tried searching for articles but all of them were biased either to refute or support ECT. On Wiktionary it did give some alternative definitions that match Young's literal translation, but it was one of the only unbiased sources I could find. I do think there's enough scriptural evidence to support Final Reconciliation, but I am hung up on the lack of certainty of the word Aionios.

[@ianalan4367]

I believe eternal is accurate as we are all created in God’s imagine eternally. We are to believe we will all spend eternity in the presence of God. This could be heaven or hell depending upon the state of our soul. I do not believe He’ll is a punishment though. Look up “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman. It is a short article that correctly depicts what Christianity has always proclaimed. It is a substantially different view than the Hell Fire & Brimstone punishment many of us have grown up with. Peace to all!

[@madmarvcr]

@Shaggymerc77 Read Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10. …every knee shall bow… …every tongue shall confess God. Philippians goes on to say… in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. Not some knees, not almost all knees, these passages say every knee shall bow. Next, 1 Corinthians 15:28, all things will be subjected to Christ, then Christ will handover to God, so God can be made all in all. Not some, not almost all, but ALL. Now, let’s assume “aion” does mean forever, punishment will be forever if you don’t bow your knee to Christ, or confess with your tongue. But the Bible assures us, every knee shall bow. However, each individual has there own timeline to confess Christ. Those that don’t confess before Armageddon, will be thrown in Gehenna, Fiery Furnace, Hellfire, Lake of Fire, or any other euphemism for Hellfire. Fire and brimstone is for purifying, not punishment every minute. What we can glean from this, some people/angels/demons will take a very long time to eventually confess Christ, but eventually ALL will confess. Even Satan. Christ beats Satan, 10,000,000,000+ to Satan’s 0. Christ’s victory will be TOTAL. All in All

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Semantic shift is why "aionios" means "eteranal" in modern Greek. The irony is however is that the Latin word *eternal* spelled *aeternus* in Latin, also means "of an age". Ref: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%3Aentry%3Daeternus

[@VictorianMaid99]

I have heard this before from a guy on the radio. He said the law of thermal dynamics proves hell was not forever

[@ianalan4367]

VictorianMaid99 - How do we know the laws of thermodynamics applies to the afterlife? Hell as I understand it is more a state of one’s soul. How exactly does thermodynamics measure that?!

[@WDYD]

IF are death pays for sin and the death of Christ paid for everyone's sin past, present, and future why would there be any need for people to be punished?

[@azimuth4850]

Why would God use the word everlasting to describe punishment? Because it's everlasting. It's not the same as you giving your wife a jewelry she can keep "forever, until she loses it." God wouldn't use that kind of language to describe a punishment unless it really was never-ending.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The problem is the word "everlasting" doesn't exist in the original languages of the bible. I recommend you watch Aion Part 1 for an introduction Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmiaqYt_j96DaZY

[@VictorianMaid99]

I agree

[@michaelshevlane9132]

Why would God use ALL to describe how many He will save, unless He means it?

[@azimuth4850]

@@michaelshevlane9132 It says he *desires* all men to be saved, just like he desires all to come to repentance, but they won't. Those who won't repent, or believe, will not be saved. It's very clear about this. If all are saved, then who is Paul talking about when he speaks of those who will perish, who are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction?

[@michaelshevlane9132]

@@azimuth4850 I hope your day is going well! Interesting that you mix verses showing God desires all men to be saved, and then Romans 9 which shows Him to be sovereign over salvation! Concerning destruction, it is said in the Psalm "You turn man to destruction, And say, “Return, O children of men.” Destruction itself is the reverse of construction, but does mean something ceases to exist forever, or cannot be rebuilt. There are promises in the OT that Sodom will be restored - yes, the same Sodom that was "destroyed" in fire and brimstone! There are so many references to God's restorative dealings in the age to come. In Isaiah 45 God states that every knee will bow to Him and take an oath, which is further reflected in Philippians 2 concerning Jesus. The scriptures are full of references to God eventually restoring all things - these scriptures are simply not taught because of the pre-existing bias towards ceaseless torment. Colossians 1:20 deals with God reconciling all things back to Himself through Christ eventually, as does 1 Corinthians 15, where eventually God is 'All in All' through Christ. There are a multitude of references to all things becoming subject to Christ (for example Philippians 3:21) and this subjection is the same Greek word used as "submission", as in "submit yourselves to one another" etc. It is a willing submission, not a coerced confession before someone is chucked into the flames of hellfire. There is DEFINITELY judgment - and most of the judgment warnings are on the people of God! All five references to "weeping and gnashing of teeth" are to SERVANTS of God! The ONLY people who are "not hurt by the second death" are the overcomers, per Revelation, and we know from Revelation 2-3 that not all Christians are overcomers, so many (probably most) Christians will be in the lake of fire, which is a symbol of corrective judgment and refinement, much like Gehenna itself. There are hundreds of support scriptures for all things eventually being summed up into Christ - and it is a much more consistent message and plan than the logical fallacies of ceaseless torment, which are very easy to shoot down. Ultimately, the greatest proof for the salvation of all is the nature and character of Jesus Himself, who fully revealed the Father. He said that we must forgive our enemies to be perfect like the Father, and that the whole of the law and the prophets (which includes "justice") is summed up in two commandments of Love. The scriptures go so far as to state that Love fulfills the law! God will indeed judge us all, but 'When your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness". 7 And He will destroy on this mountain (the kingdom of God) The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the Lord has spoken. God bless you!

[@ericbooth3393]

Funny this comes up tonight, as I have been wondering for a while why Revelation speaks of the dead who have already been judged, being judged again upon the second coming based on their works, if salvation comes through accepting Jesus as Lord. I’ve searched and I’ve searched, people don’t seem to get the question and I can’t find answers but I wonder if this means that souls who are currently in hell may have the opportunity to reach paradise based on their works on judgement day, at the end of this age? If you are right with regards to this claim that hell wasn’t actually written as “eternal” for people could this actually be the case? Or are those in hell just going to be lifted up judged again and tossed into the lake of fire to burn all over again? God bless cool video

[@brianpratt2461]

It might help you to understand that in revelation when it talks about everyone being judged by "their works", in the original Greek it actually translates correctly to everyone will be judged by "His works"!

[@ericbooth3393]

@@brianpratt2461 So what do you believe that to mean? That God will personally determine the person’s eternity case by case, that their works are irrelevant but he will take everything they’d done into consideration? I’ve really struggled with understanding this final judgment thing, it seems pretty clear to me that there will be people spending eternity in the lake of fire but if there is another judgment there must be hope for some of those souls? These kinds of questions really do border on total heresy if not our right demonic deception all the evidence I’ve seen personal testimonies of very trustworthy people claiming that God told them or showed them the torments of hell and how there is no escape.

[@brianpratt2461]

Man will be judged by His( meaning Jesus) works. In revelation 20:12 the first volume of books opened represents mankind's ( not God's) system of justice based on their own works. The book of life represents the triumph of the Lamb. At the final judgement all humanity will be judged based on what Jesus has already done. Jesus took all mankind upon Himself at the cross. When He died we died, when He was buried we were buried, when He arose we arose with Him ,a new creation. Because he is righteous, God declares us righteous in Him. Jesus said it is finished. All humanity was born again when Jesus rose from the dead, mankind simply needs to realize it by coming to the knowledge of that truth. God will restore His creation completely, that's always been His plan, His love plan. The gospel means good news, not potentially good news, not just good news for some. The church has twisted the gospel and present it as though it's merely an invitation. The truth is it's not an invitation, it's a proclamation.

[@goblintown]

You should have also referenced the Greek word Paul used in the “endless genealogies” verse…

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

One more way they could have done it if that is what they were thinking.

[@VictorianMaid99]

I just said that early. How does this new theory of no endless hell square with endless genologys?

[@Mainestreamer]

Hell was created by people trying to scare other people. God would never torture someone let alone for eternity. Eternity is a long time. A trillion trillion years in and that aint even day 1

[@alwaysadawg6488]

Great video. Could you do a video on Matthew 22:14 - "many are called but few are chosen"? Thank you! Also, those who speak against universalism say that if the Greek word "aionios" is used to describe both punishment and the reward for a righteous life, then the word must actually mean that punishment is eternal because heaven is eternal. However, I heard somewhere that "aionios" or "age-during" can describe a time period that lasts as long as it needs to and is dependent on the circumstances or context and, as such, there is no need for both uses of "aniois" to refer to the same length of time. Is this your understanding?

[@johnaio]

Real question so I can learn: Does everlasting/eternal life and reigning with Him forever actually mean forever or just a long time?

[@therealfain]

If you mean reigning in the kingdom that is temporary, and something reserved for those who take part in the first resurrection. After the kingdom age we all end up in the same place where God is all in all. We don’t have much of a picture of what that looks like. But we know that we shall live with Him forever because we receive immortality (1 Corinthians 15).

[@johnaio]

@@therealfain Thank you

[@derekm9527]

Johnaio There are many examples of how we cannot die anymore if in Christ. Luke 20: 36 Neither can they die anymore; For they are equal unto the angels, And are the children of God, Being the children of the resurrection, They are sons of God.

[@BlankCanvas88]

I don't think this "lets people off the hook" like maybe people who cry heresy are thinking. To me, the idea of ceasing to exist is just as terrifying if not more so than endless suffering! But yes, my parents introduced me to this idea. At first I was skeptical, but when I saw things in, say, Revelation that to me seems to line up, I became more convinced. Am I 100% convinced? No. B/c I know there is room for error in my finite mind. But still, I think it highly likely.

[@VictorianMaid99]

You do not need to be 100% convinced electricity is real but it is. Hell is forever.

[@freethinker77]

​@@VictorianMaid99 We can see electricity with our own eyes, where as your concept of eternal conscious torment is just a ridiculous fairy tale based on a mistranslation.

[@VictorianMaid99]

@@freethinker77 if you can see electricity with your own eyes you are a better man then me!

[@freethinker77]

​@@VictorianMaid99 You've never seen a bolt of lightning before?

[@CNich90]

Awesome resource!

[@CNich90]

@divinelightshine “And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life ageduring.’” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭46‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

[@petersimplife]

Only people with itching ears will except this. Do not be deceived. Read the Bible for yourself without a filter, or pre-supposition of what you think it should mean. Eternal damnation exists. The only reason you don’t believe it is because you don’t want to believe it. Praying for y’all.

[@colinmoore5991]

You've just declared Adam's sin to be greater than Christ's obedience. Adam was powerful enough to condemn ALL of humanity. Yet Christ is not powerful enough to save the same ALL. It's YOUR ears that are itching, my friend. The pagan notion of eternal torment appeals to your flesh because it allows you to boast. Your flesh cannot stand that God has taken all human effort out of the equation.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

I recommend you read a literal translation that will allow you to peer into the original languages of the bible. Young's Literal and the Rotherham Emphasized Bible are both available online. The bibles you are reading are filtered.

[@petersimplife]

@@colinmoore5991 we are talking about unbelievers, not those who have been made right with the Lord. I already have nothing to boast for. I wouldn’t need eternal damnation to be a reason. Just imagine jumping through that many hoops just to say hell isn’t eternal. I might collect a bunch of verses to show you, but I don’t feel like it will make a difference since you don’t believe what the Bible says.

[@petersimplife]

I won’t add any more to this. Except that if this does not keep you from sharing the Gospel and focussing on knowing Christ. Quite frankly, it makes no difference. Quarrelling about words. I see so many people with different views, and they make it there whole personality and identity.

[@MadDogsandEnglishman]

No end - Ouk Telos Forever - Aionious which deals with a person experience withing an age (aion) Aionious does not deal with time per-se.

[@jericho4281]

If God doesn't lie, why would he let the bible to be mistranslated? Just saying. But I support universal reconciliation.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

A big part of the problem isn't that our bibles are mistranslated but that most English readers don't know the actual definition of the Latin word "eternal". Its primary meaning is "of an age", and "endless" is actually a secondary shade of meaning. Even our English word "forever" doesn't automatically mean "endless", we use that expression hyperbolically all the time but assume in the bible it carries a rigid definition. For example, "and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him *for ever.*" - Exodus 21:6 KJV

[@yqafree]

Why would it be written in a few spots that nothing ought to be added nor subtracted from, as an edict, that is implicit that it's possible. People can possibly interpret messages incorrectly. Semantic shift also makes something with an original meaning become understood differently, thus more often than not, that will pervert later readers from a proper exegesis. I hope this is satisfactory for an answer, among other details that I'm unaware of or couldn't remember. - Your Quality Apologist

[@bradvincent2586]

You could think of the Bible as being “progressively” translated, rather than mistranslated. Over the last 2000 years, the Bible went from non existent, to only held in the hands of a few elite, to being dispersed amongst the masses. We have our small role to play in history now. But all the hidden treasures of wisdom (which assumes there are hidden treasures to be found) are in Christ

[@azimuth4850]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Yeah God is not going to use the word "hyperbolically" when describing something like an endless punishment. It's endless because it's endless. I hope you seek the true gospel, because your spreading false teachings and heaping up more damnation for yourself.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

​@@azimuth4850 What am I being damned for exactly? I recommend you watch Aion Part 1 for a quick introduction to the Greek text on this subject Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmiaqYt_j96DaZY

[@jedphillips9362]

What other words in Koine Greek could have been used for “everlasting”? And for the example in Matthew 25, if the punishment is for an age then everlasting life is only for an age? Thanks.

[@billygoat5091]

There are many scriptures that refute endless punishment. There is punishment for God says there will be. There is wrath, there is chastisement,there is scourging, but all done in the motivation of LOVE, for God IS LOVE. ( 1 Cor. 13:8) As was mentioned here below, Gods punishment,chastening, scourging,wrath is all remedial. God is creating mankind in His own image, and that takes spiritual heat, like gold refined in the fire. Also it is Gods desire (will) that all mankind be saved (1 Tim 2:4) and in Isa. 46:10 The prophet states that God will accomplish ALL His desire or will. Look at 1 Tim 4:10 and John 12:32. After all, God is love and love never fails.

[@ironclad452]

Rather than using the archaic phrase "age-during" taken from the YLT, why not simply rephrase it to say "for an age"? That's a much clearer rendition that says the same thing, in my opinion. And I wholeheartedly agree that this should be a discussed topic of soteriology! If Arminianism and Calvinism (two diametrically opposed soteriological positions) can be "within the realm of orthodoxy", surely a view that encapsulates the best of both while eliminating the worst is worthy of discussion!

[@moonpye9082]

Religion made law Law creates sin, Sin creates destruction and death of spirit. We are saved from sin and death, not hell fire. Jesus was high priest who was without sin, thus it is finished, we have all been made clean, The true law is written on mans heart. If you want religious law, then you will be judged accordingly, you can go back to Egypt, Or you can accept the full grace of God and be free. God still correct us for disobedience, because we know right from wrong. Just like in the beginning. Law made Adam and Eve ashamed, becaue of mans religion, that was the forbidden fruit. Before that, man only need to follow the spirit. Let him who have ears hear the spirit. The rest can let man be your teacher. Thanks for all of your videos. Perfected by Blood is a great ministry if anyone is interested in learning more about the true gospel. They cover everything.

[@glennrobinson7193]

I don't know original Greek but in original texts does it say the lake of fire is a crucible for purging and purification? Is there even the hint of that idea? It seems only assumed that it's purpose is for purifying. How do you know that saying it's a crucible for "purifying" is not an adding to the word. The argument then no doubt is that God is love. But God isn't just only love. God is many other things too. God is truth. God is Jealous. God is light. Just a few examples.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

This was the understanding of the early Greek church fathers, dates back to at least the 2nd century, which is still very close to the Apostles, thus was likely passed down to them.

[@glennrobinson7193]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Oh right okay. I guess what that means is that because they were the "fathers" that what they believed is infallible and indisputable 🤔 Which reminds me, didn't Jesus say not to call anyone father, for one is your Father who is in heaven.

[@stevevasquez1084]

Are you saying that the devil won't burn in hell forever?

[@anjalE30]

Oh yes it does You clearly haven't read ALL the biblical canons Ppl can believe what they want They will surely soon find out!

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

references?

[@anjalE30]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 if u havent done so, please read the book of Enoch. it is very detailed and extremely eye opening

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

The problem this doctrine is that aionos is used to describe both the life and the judgement. If judgement is not for eternity then neither is the life. Wake up. Hell is forever. Fear the Lord.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed, which is critical church doctrine, says we "believe in the life of the age (world) to come". This is a reference to location not duration. This is *when* we obtain this life, or endure corrective discipline. I don't understand why an age of punishment, which is what the bible actually teaches, is not a sufficient deterrent for sin? If I told you God was going to send you away for just ten years of punishment wouldn't you want to be saved from that?

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 So apply the same concept to the life. Life with Christ is not forever if we go with your logic. Just an age. If you choose to go that route then you are running directly contrary to the Bible.

[@loishilliard1]

So are you saying burning in hell for eternity is not endless?

[@nikokapanen82]

He explained that the Greek word Aionios can mean age-lasting or age-abiding and does not always mean eternity.

[@joelconwaylim9819]

Does this means eternal life in Christ or with God is also temporary (age-during)?

[@derekm9527]

Joelconway9819 There are many passages that say we cannot die anymore if in Christ. For example read Luke 20: 36.

[@Metarig]

Despite my disbelief in eternal punishment, I still find the argument you've presented to be somewhat weak. While the phrase "there's no end" may seem fitting and aesthetically pleasing in the given context, its suitability may not extend to describing the boundlessness of concepts like hell or heaven. Additionally, it's worth noting that the term "there's no end" isn't employed in the Bible to denote eternal life. However, can we really deduce the non-existence of everlasting life from this absence? Moreover, you haven't delved deeper into the nuanced meaning of the phrase "there's no end," which holds implications beyond just limitless duration.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Well, the bible does say the kingdom is without end, and Paul taught we are raised into immortality with Christ to live in that kingdom. Therefore that life is endless just as the kingdom is endless and Christ's life is endless.

[@Frank-st6gd]

Matthew chapter 18 verses 6 thought 9 Eturnal fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥 Keep studying.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Except the Latin word "eternal" doesn't mean endless, it means, properly, "of an age".

[@Frank-st6gd]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 If you believe heaven is forever and not hell. That's what you believe.Mabe ask Lazarus that question not me.Have a blessed Day.

[@ianalan4367]

The eternal aspect is real. We are to believe we will all spend eternity in the presence of God. Punishment or reward? Not really, for Hell is not a punishment as ‘God does not want a single soul to suffer’. Paradise isn’t as much a reward as returning to our true state of being. Look up a short article titled “Is Hell Real” by Stephen Freeman. It’s available on line. He is a theologian and clergy who does a very nice job summarizing what Christianity has always proclaimed on the subject. It’s a tad bit different then the ‘Hell Fire punishment’ distortion many of us have grown up with. Peace to all!

[@michaelshevlane9132]

God does not TRY anything, He does or does not. He is not 'trying' to save anyone, as Jesus is already the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is the savior of ALL men, especially believers. He is not willing that any should be lost, and who has resisted His will? We were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world, showing that salvation is according to a plan from the beginning. Nothing happens to discourage, disappoint or thwart God. The God is ceaseless hell, on the other hand, tortures babies and disabled people, has a lousy plan, and only pretends to love the world, but really has the worst possible fate PLANNED for them. That does not sound much like the Father revealed in Jesus Christ, does it?

[@tammysimpson6745]

You must have skipped over all the parts about hell. Hell is talked about more in our Bibles than heaven. To warn us how to avoid it.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Depends on what bible you're reading. Hell appears 122 times in the Wycliffe bible and only about 15 times in NIV. Whereas Heaven is mentioned about 25 times in NIV

[@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh]

Hell is ETERNAL... That's why Jesus suffered so we wouldn't go there.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Paul said something different: "Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people." - Romans 5:18 NIV Paul also said, "That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

[@Overcome321]

What do we need to be saved from then? And what about the resurrected bodies everyone gets, you think that those that rejected Christ will simply die again in the new resurrected body? Those bodies are spiritual bodies the don’t get old, die, or decay. Those without Christ will go away to be forever separated from God and everything that is His, so imagine being alone, in a place of nothingness with a body that’s capable of processing information and never gets old. Mathew 25:46 “these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life” The clear contrast there in that verse is eternal life is forever with God, and eternal punishment is forever without God. Don’t overthink it. You’re teaching false doctrine.

[@therant3837]

I'm afraid you are wrong about this. King Saul disobeyed God, and as punishment God tormented King Saul for the rest of his life with a tormenting spirit. This spirit drove King Saul insane on a daily basis with only the music of David to comfort him. Still.... the spirit never truly left Saul, it only relented, and the only reason for this was to place David with King Saul. You see.... when I was 7 I myself was possessed by a demon. I was given dreams about sex and violence before I even knew what sex was. For this demon.... the sex was between boys, girls.... it didn't matter to the demon as long as it was of sexual nature. I began experimenting with homosexual activity after these dreams. As I got older the images became more real, and disgusting. And it continued throughout my entire life until I was 38. The possession kept on. When I was 38 years old I cried out to God after everything in my life fell apart. Peace came for a little while; I was baptized at my family's church, then.... while I was no longer possessed I realized the voice of demons was still upon me, but my actions were my own. When we're possessed we se what we're doing but we're powerless to stop it. It's like a really bad dream you have no control over. However when we're oppressed the voices of demons and The Devil himself are still there, but we have control over our bodies and our actions. Now I lived oppressed by demons. It's never ending. I used drugs for a while to calm it down, and alcohol as well. While I've stopped all that due to God's grace the demonic is still upon me. I believe EXISTING is the reason for our punishment. The pain and suffering we go through is a living testament to God's hatred of sin, and although we are forgiven of our sins through Jesus Christ, our punishment for existing never ends. For some it's more tragic than others, but it's all the same punishment from an angry God who hates sin. So like King Saul.... for those of you who are undergoing similar circumstances and searching for answers.... much like Job for the most part you won't get one. The answers are evident within our own existence. Although you are forgiven of your sins through Jesus Christ your punishment for sin will continue as we sin every day. You exist in sinful flesh, and thereby as such your punishment will continue until your death. But.... if you keep your faith in Jesus Christ the Hell on earth you experience ends with the death of your sinful skin. There's no escaping it until your mortality in flesh ends. Maybe this is why most people in today's world reject Jesus. They hate God for it. The despise God for it all. The suffering, the death, the wars, the natural disasters, the famines, the droughts, the rape, the murders, all of it goes back to The Garden of Eden with the singular choice made to eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. They hate God for it. While Adam and Eve were created in perfection and were given the choice, we are not. I wonder if things would be different if we all were created in perfection and THEN given the choice. It doesn't matter, though. This is where we are. This is the life of corruption and destruction we are given..... and the more you worship God the worse your life becomes here on earth.

[@adriennegallotta2890]

Next time you will say I am not allowed to prophesize for I do not know what I am saying

[@Unbendable74]

Except that it does 🤷🏼‍♂️ Rev 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

[@thepositeer3385]

If we actually were to see anything regarding ending punishment we would expect to see at least one psalm about this . God has given us many different forms of Psalms, and parables throughout the Bible clearly showing judgment as the destruction of Jerusalem, and other various captivity’s throughout history in the Jewish people. Try finding a Psalm that looks like this “ for the lord has spoken to me in a vision, and has prophesied, that those who defile the law and those who die in iniquity will experience punishment with no end,, for they will wail in pain in the depths of Sheol , but I will not hear them. For they will cry out “lord almighty when will your anger cease” and I will never answer them. For the path of the wicked ends in punishment without end and the sorrows of sheol never cease” some hypothetical profit should’ve said something like this at some point in the 66 books of the Bible. What I have done is given a hypothetical psalm. That should have existed if eternal conscious torment was real. There are many ways to represent the idea of endless.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Of course that is a major objection to endless punishment, God never warned Adam of such, which is an egregious omission if that were the case.

[@nikokapanen82]

For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone. Lamentations 3:31-33 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble. Daniel 4:37 "Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from the fearful presence of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty! The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day." Isaiah 2:11 "Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at all who are proud and bring them low, look at all who are proud and humble them" Job 40:11 "Now your impurity is lewdness. Because I tried to cleanse you but you would not be cleansed from your impurity, you will not be clean again until my wrath against you has subsided." Ez 24:13 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Isaiah 26:9 Therefore wait for me,” declares the LORD, “for the day I will stand up to testify. I have decided to assemble the nations, to gather the kingdoms and to pour out my wrath on them- all my fierce anger. The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger. “Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the LORD and serve him shoulder to shoulder." Zephaniah 3:8-9 All these proves that God's Judgments and His wrath is not some mindless torture forever and ever but a humbling down force, a correcting force, a cleansing force that will teach sinners to behave properly.

[@shaun2222]

You reap what you sow.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

I agree

[@Thin447Line]

Matthew 25:41-46, Revelation 14:9-11; 20:19. You obviously have a different bible than I do. These are the words of Jesus. I think He may want to have a word with you on this topic when the time comes. You're playing pretty fast and loose with your nonsensical interpretation of Matt24:36 "these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life." That's some pretty impressive linguistic gymnastics essentially saying this text doesn't really mean what it says. In my bible, these words are printed in red ink. I think that means something important. You're on some pretty thin ice with your wacky interpretation. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

[@ajbryan59]

You are choosing what you want to believe and then twisting the meaning to suit your belief. Exegesis not eisegesis.

[@kjhgfdfghjkdrtyuiwewe]

Okay, so if this is the case, have you built up any arguments that refute his claims?

[@ajbryan59]

@@kjhgfdfghjkdrtyuiwewe Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. [Matthew 25:45-46 KJV]

[@kjhgfdfghjkdrtyuiwewe]

@ajbryan59 that verse is translated with doctrine in mind and does not reflect what the original Koine Greek NT actually said. For more information, please watch this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6DRl2xtbriCfqcsi=p4GsYmvJlnyGS6gu the Aion series from this KZbin channel is pretty helpful as well, going into the history and study of the Greek word "Aion" and how it only refers to a limited time "age" and not "endless" that series also points to more resources of people who have studied the language within the context of it's time so you can do a deeper study.

[@ajbryan59]

@@kjhgfdfghjkdrtyuiwewe So which part of the verse I quoted was mistranslated and what should it actually be?

[@kjhgfdfghjkdrtyuiwewe]

@ajbryan59 everlasting punishment should be translated into "age-abiding correction/interrogation" which reflects in the Youngs, as well the Emphasized bible) aion (the word getting wrongfully translated into everlasting) is being used as an adjective, so you can argue that it's refering to the quality rather than literal "age". Regardless, nothing about it in the Koine Greek meant "endlessness." That was forced onto the translation based off doctrine (popular english bibles are translations of translations) I highly recommend the video I sent you for more details on the topic, as well as the aion series from the same channel as an introduction into the evidence regarding the word "Aion" and what it meant durring the time the NT was written.

[@charleshines2142]

Of peace there will be no end. So really is God just going to cleanse us of sin before allowing us to enter Heaven?

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Christ paid for the sins of all mankind. But our behavior has to change. The obstinately impenitent go away into an age of discipline while everyone else gets to enjoy a life of peace in the Kingdom of God.

[@ronm6349]

Wow I'm shocked I got so much response to my little comment. The rapture is soon brothers and sisters in Christ, I believe the feast of trumpets this year and we will all know the full truth then

[@glennrobinson7193]

I believe endless punishment is a lie, is heresy, a damnable heresy, as well as being the spirit of error.

[@robrob4730]

Book if Matthew literally says where the worm does not die and a fire dont quench and this bro is like naaah thats taken out if context and original text says complete opposite

[@rhm5158]

Just the title alone shows how wrong you are

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@divinelightshine The Rotherham Emphasized Bible reads, "And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life." - Matthew 25:46 Because that's what the Greek text actually says.

[@rhm5158]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 that’s not a real translation. Completely wrong

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@@rhm5158 Actually Rotherham is relentlessly true to the original Greek. But don't take my word for it, look it up in every Greek lexicon you can find, my saying so will never convince you.

[@theundeservedflavor]

Endless punishment IS heresy. In order to believe/preach endless punishment, the character and nature of God must be entirely unlike what is true. Therefore, a false god is being believed/preached; a god either unwilling or incapable of saving, redeeming, reconciling any of those he created, died and rose for.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Many Greek church fathers thought endless punishment was absurd, they could read the Greek text. But they didn't go so far as to call it a heresy, since you only need to believe Christ is your savior to be a Christian.

[@rashaanelam1897]

Jeremiah 49:39

[@davidyingling4873]

2 Thessalonians 1:9.

[@VictorianMaid99]

Sure is it does. All over the Bible it talk about sinners winding up in a burning hell forever. I thought that was endless punishment.

[@michaelshevlane9132]

It does not say that in the original languages. There are four words all translated hell, two of which are the same concept in Hebrew and Greek (Sheol/Hades) and which refer more to the grave or the abode of the dead. A third is a single mention (Tartaroo) of a place where disobedient angels are held, and the final one (Gehenna) was only ever spoken to Jews (Jesus says it, as does James in writing to the Jews). Gehenna is a transliteration of the Valley of Hinnom, which is a literal place outside Jerusalem, formerly a place of pagan sacrifice that became a kind of refuse dump with continual burning fires for purification, so an obvious metaphor for cleansing fire. Those are your four hells, right there.

[@nikokapanen82]

There are certain logical facts of life that every follower of Christ must agree and support with 100% confidence and certainty. The first premise of this logical fact of life is that God is 100% good, this leads to the next fact of life that is since God is 100% good then all His actions are 100% good, this leads to the next fact that since all His actions are 100% good then all the final outcomes of His actions must be 100% good and what does a good outcome, a good result mean? It means a pleasing outcome, a joyful outcome, an emotionally and mentally satisfying outcome. Now ask yourself, does the final outcome of the universe, where a tiny fraction of people is in heaven and all the rest of people, billions and billions of them, are burning alive forever and ever, a good and pleasing outcome? The answer is supposed to be crystal clear; Absolutely not! Therefore, we have two options, either the first premise that God is 100% good is not true or that the idea of almost all people who ever lived burning alive forever and ever is not true.

[@AlexLightGiver]

Sin is the absence of love only to be corrected not punished -- Jesus the Christ

[@jamesmullin515]

If you go to hell you'll never get out

[@jeffreyaguilar8028]

Crying heresy doesn’t make something a heresy, making up a man made rule doesn’t make God go “aw man they made up another rule now I gotta enforce it.”

[@stevenfrasier5718]

You're too soft on Infernalists.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

Can’t spell “Heretic” without “Eric”!

[@kronos01ful]

Of course it does

[@victoriacritchlow9069]

No such place as hell! Listen to what he's saying it makes sense

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Daniel 12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Exodus 32:33 "And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The problem with your assumption is that none those passage say "forever and ever" or "everlasting" in the original languages of the bible. They all refer to an age, without exception.

[@MichaelServantOfChrist]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Then apply that same logic to everlasting life. Just an age, not forever. If you are willing to do that then you have a problem with a lot of Scripture.

[@Eddie33154]

Wrong. Jesus is very very emphatic about eternal glory and eternal shame. Human souls/spirits are a part of God Himself. God won't annihilate that which comes from Himself. Mark 9:43-48. Jesus says three times their worm dies not - never dies, and the fire is not quenched. Jesus Christ is the Truth. You will be judged by His words.

[@nikokapanen82]

In Hades, the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched. It is true. Yet the worm won't die and the fire won't be quenched only as long as Hades exists and Hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire as Revelation 20:13-14 says.

[@Eddie33154]

@@nikokapanen82 Yes, death and hades are vast into the Lake of fire. But don't assume the Lake of Fire only lasts an hour or two. The text does NOT say, death and Hades are annihilated. Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." The Devil is not thrown into "hell", but into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:10, 14-15 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever..... And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of Fire." EVERLASTING FIRE FOREVER AND EVER. Just as the glory is everlasting, so too the terror. God doesn't annihilate spiritual beings. Let us fear the Lord, and daily humble ourselves under His all powerful hand. The time is very short.

[@adriennegallotta2890]

I have not sent you I have not spoken to you

[@thesaviorofALL]

Beautiful

[@adriennegallotta2890]

Yes you are condemned you'll be one that takes up permanent residence in outer darkness

[@MegaChakram]

Hell just means the grave, it always has in greek hades or tartarus and his various names alude to the earth or pit which is the grave why would a loving god create a place of suffering and torture he's not like that even the angels that rebelled will be will cease to exist which is kinder than having them suffer

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

No, even the angels are refined by God back to the original condition of creation, which is very good.

[@TD-wi1zh]

I just love how the best proof of endless punishment is that us evil people who don't believe it should get it. I've been condemned for believing in God's Perfect Mercy and His Perfect Justice

[@michaelshevlane9132]

Unfortunately instead of hoping in Christ, the greatest hope of many believers is heaven, and the second greatest hope is that most other people go to hell!

[@user-qp3wt5qe9g]

Sorry people but you are not correctly reading your Bible. "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.… Never "dies" means forever. The fire never quenched - this infers eternal punishment. Cross References Isaiah 66:24 "As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind." Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and remove the foreskins of your hearts, O men of Judah and people of Jerusalem. Otherwise, My wrath will break out like fire and burn with no one to extinguish it, because of your evil deeds." Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matthew 25:41 Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire. Understanding this fact that our heavenly father is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice and an all consuming fire. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison (hell). Matthew 5:25 Jesus is saying make peace with Him now - i.e. repent of your sins and trust ONLY in his finish work on the cross - his death and resurrection. Paul reminds us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Remember when Jesus says "eternal fire" He means fire forever. Know Jesus, know peace No Jesus, no peace. I hope this was helpful.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Okay, common objection. However, neither the Greek adjective aionios nor the Latin adjective eternal (aeternus) means endless. They both mean "of an age". Also, Isaiah 66 specifically is referring to "dead bodies" not suffering souls in the afterlife. It's a kind of visual memorial of the destruction of Jerusalem, a very specific event. We read: “And they will go out and look on the *dead* *bodies* of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” - Isaiah 66:24 NIV

[@seapr6]

All true. These universalists are desperate to excuse going along with bits and pieces of the evil mounting in the churches, people mutilating children, or their own errant children. Eternal damnation is warned about many times over, as you've demonstrated in your comment.

[@krist7697]

That’s a play on words , eternal and age long mean the same thing . Seriously , think about it . At the end of the day if you are truly a saved child of GOD you don’t need to worry about it anyway . Also I would say even if you are correct if you are a child of GOD what does it matter , you will be with GOD for an eternity. Is is that not true either . Cause in Matthew 25 41-46 I think makes it quite clear as the same Greek word referring to people being in heaven eternally and then he’ll eternally . Also If someone doesn’t think it’s is right for GOD to punish people eternally then they have no true understanding of the perfect holiness of GOD and the total depravity of the human heart . That is the biggest issue that leads people to think there is no hell or if there is that it can’t be eternal . I think the maker and designer has the say on the rules not us humans who see things with a dimmed picture because of a depraved heart . Also anyone who thinks people are good would have this view aswell and I believe that to be what gives someone the distorted picture that hell isn’t bad or just as jesus described it . This is very bad theology but if you want to hang your hopes on what your saying then go ahead but I think I will take what was said literally and as it was intended as it is easily understandable . If a could read this passages he wouldn’t come up with your take on it .

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@@krist7697 The contextual reasoning that in Matt. 25:46 means the same for life and punishment can't be sustained. Adjectives are commonly juxtaposed contextually in a single sentence. Consider the following sentence: "Although racism was an *enduring* part of early American history; God's love for all people is nevertheless an *enduring* quality of his nature." So using the popular contextual reasoning for Matt. 25:46 I would have to conclude that unless *racism* *endures* *forever* then God's *love* doesn't *endure* *forever* . And I use that example because enduring actually is the definition of the Latin word eternal (aeternus) in Latin. But in reality the passage Matt. 25:46 is merely saying when we obtain immortal life. Just like in the Nicene Creed "We believe in the life of the age (world) to come". Which merely refers to location not duration. By extension that is also when corrective punishment takes place. Greek word *κόλασιν* in Matt. 25:46 actually means *corrective* *discipline* as opposed to retribution to satisfy the punisher.

[@KevinWBrown-cm6fr]

People do anything to escape the truth.. The fire is eternal. Just because you decide you don't want to believe doesn't mean that you are free from it lol. Mind over matter huh?? No no no.. The fire and suffering is never ending. Live for God stop sinning then you won't have to make up lies to make you feel safe😂

[@adriennegallotta2890]

Yes it is If you are not one of the one of the 144,000 you are done

[@hairyape3935]

Stop lying

[@seapr6]

Have fun being forced to bunk with Stalin and Dalmer for eternity, I guess. Sounds like heaven is actually hell.

[@benjaminavick6455]

Preacher make big bucks by scaring people.

[@marcob4645]

👌👌👍👍

[@bubbypage9379]

RUDE WAKE UP CALL IS COMING FOR YOU.

[@angloaust1575]

The beast and the false prophet rev19v20 Pharisees receiving the greater Damnation! Also revelation20v10!

[@DOUGNIKKEL]

Look, I'm not gonna write a book here, but not everyone is going to be saved. When in Revelation it says there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the lost will be tormented forever, when the unsaved realize they will not live forever, yes there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Their torment will be eternal death (the Second Death), and that will be day and night forever. There are a number of Bible verses about this, but here are a few: Psalm 37: 10 and 20, Malachi 4: 1 and 3. Eternal death = non-existence.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The problem you're having is none of those passages in the original languages mean "endless". There is a whole lot more at this channel on this subject. I recommend starting with Aion Part 1 Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmiaqYt_j96DaZY

[@azimuth4850]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Luke 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

[@azimuth4850]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 Isaiah 66:24 For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@@azimuth4850 I've covered this at this channel. You can watch that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6LCepmvhZxjZ9k

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@@azimuth4850 It's important to understand the ancient Christian doctrine of Universal Restoration (apokatastasis) DOES teach there is afterlife punishment. But in the Greek text it's for an age not endless. Punishment yes, endless punishment no. Endless punishment is a Latin doctrine taken from translations of the bible, not the original Greek text.

[@Frank-st6gd]

Matthew chapter 18 verses 6 thought 9 Eturnal Fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Look it up KJV. DUH

[@fubarturtle]

A place of torment and Nashing of teeth, hell