Engineer 101 - What's running a LONG train on a SMALL railroad like?

In this video, we learn what it's like to run a 10 car long train on an itty-bitty 1/2 mile railroad with lots of height changes! This is at the ‪@crrm‬ in Golden, CO. Come visit!
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[@leightonmoreland]

not pictured is the brief moment of panic when I let the train roll back a car length

[@Hyce777]

Hey, I didn't panic, I just kept saying "moremoremoremoremoremoremoremore" at you until we started to go the other way. John Meixel got you on video doing that though.... :P

[@JamesPattersonGeepfan]

Sounds like you're on a roll with engineering there Leighton

[@TSMGL_Youtube]

​@@JamesPattersonGeepfanLIMES

[@GreenGj-]

[@themidnightbanshee5927]

Jeff deserves a longer railroad, so he can have all the more fun

[@StephenSantangelo-hh5ic]

Agreed!

[@Idaho-Cowboy]

So cool to see! This (along with your other 101 series) should be required watching for train simulator developers.

[@Hyce777]

If only, right?

[@lordsherifftakari4127]

also amusing that Jeff is running the Bar with his foot. 491, 20 Jeff and everyone needs more railroad to have funtimes on.

[@RailFanAthena]

Dont forget the pain of the ticket inspectors going down the coaches and getting more steps than they typically would then waking up sore

[@darknut9696]

If 491 was ever added to RO, i think all of us will drop any other engine for her, betsy? Gone, Tweetsie? Gone, The Zooma ? Gone. all hail the K-37 !

[@ryano.5149]

Nah, give me one of the EBT Mikados! You west coast folks can't get all the narrow gauge glory!

[@AtkataffTheAlpha]

Or have all four locomotives in like a "pay-to-get" bundle extension. Then they'd be added to the purchase menu in the game.

[@vito3533]

Only Hyce would be enough of a stickler for detail to bother doing math to account for the delay in sound propagation across the length of the train And that’s exactly why we’re all here Cheers, Hyce - Great video and production like always

[@mafarnz]

Until now, I never actually knew how retainers worked, just that they made the brakes “sticky” and were used coming down grades.

[@kirkbailey1836]

On the side of retainers, the Southern Railway and later Norfolk Southern had to putt the retainers on twenty cars or more when trains went down the Saluda Grade in Saluda North Carolina.

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

Yet another Grade A+ video, hyce. Educational AND entertaining, all in one package. Jeff Taylor, huh? What's the story behind that "world famous" moniker of his?

[@Hyce777]

A good friend of his called him that once, and it's a nickname that's stuck. He is actually very well known (and for good reason) within the industry, but we call him that to tease him. :)

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

@@Hyce777 Ah, very nice. Thanks for the explanation!

[@chipworrell6025]

You would like running the Smokey mtn. RR in Bryson city NC. 50 miles or so main line thru the mtn.s. Last time I rode it, the diesel couldn't make the grade and their steam 2-8-0- consolidation had to come and and fetch us home. When that first chuff sounded, felt like superman had grabbed hold of the train...

[@Maverick_31]

Just learned about retainers in conductor school this past week. Where I work, the retainers are always in the EX position, we don't use HP or SD. Very cool to see how these settings can be used in downhill grades.

[@vega1287]

3:52 that sounds like it would be a question on a physics exam.

[@slanderedstone]

This was a real damn cool thing to see in person, this is real neat!

[@blendpinexus1416]

that was very fun. i got to ride a couple times on 491's train saturday. both times it was interesting, once in the first car and the other time in the third car. so many things happening at once that i can feel all through my seat

[@genoobtlp4424]

Interesting to hear about the retainer, coming from Germany, where Knorr brake valves evolved to multi release valves (where you don’t fully dump the cylinder but have multiple steps where it dumps to just a certain amount of pressure, basically dumping 5psi out of the cylinder for every 5psi of pipe pressure increase), which at some point evolved into inexhaustible brakes, precisely to not lose brakes because you overbraked on a long grade

[@pootispiker2866]

I don't think the US ever got to that level of air brake technology because dynamic brakes (mostly) sidestepped the issue of overbraking. We did eventually get graduated release but that never made it to freight trains in that form. We developed ECP which essentially directly added air to the brake cylinders of the cars, meaning you could make as small or as large of a brake application that you wanted.

[@genoobtlp4424]

@@pootispiker2866 kinda crap because there’s (at least here in Europe) a bunch of fairly bat accidents where trains lost their brakes for whatever reason (early on by not having enough brake shoes to even hope to succeed / not enough brake men to man them, then losing the brakes by braking too often) but the final straw (for Germany at least) was that accident where a malfunctioning anti skid system dumped the reservoir on most to all coaches and the engineer found out on a downhill grade trying to stop die to a slower train in front of him, after which pretty much everyone doing pax in Europe started using reservoir pipes to get inexhaustible brakes (afterwards you only hear about accidents where the brakes were disabled, not exhausted anymore)… but tue US only got PTC in 2015/2020 (technically 1900s / 1930s / 1950s tech), so actually safe brakes (1950s - 1980s tech) are probably another century out (yeah, ECP is great, but reliably keeping the reservoir stocked should be quite a bit easier, fail safer and cheaper than „fancy“ electrocity)

[@pootispiker2866]

@@genoobtlp4424 Do you even know what you're talking about, there? ECP is all about keeping the brake pipe and auxiliary reservoir at 90 PSI with the brakes set up.

[@genoobtlp4424]

@@pootispiker2866 the European implementation of ESP is the one I know, so probably not, if you’re saying that… because the implementation I know as ESP uses the comm line to tell servos on every equipped car to dump air as a brake acceleration; optionally, it can also start refilling the brake line (5bar) provided a reservoir line (10 bar straight from the compressor), which is typically used in pax cars to also refill the reservoir, thus keeping it at 5 bar and making the brake inexhaustible… dunno how you do it in the US, but that’s how I understand ECP in Europe

[@pootispiker2866]

@@genoobtlp4424 ECP does the same thing, but adds pressure from the auxiliary reservoir to the brake cylinder across the whole train at the same time, but can also make a partial release (something freight equipment was entirely incapable of until ECP). This solves the issue of overbraking and exhaustion of the brakes by ensuring that the brake pipe is fully charged. A main reservoir line is really only used on passenger equipment afaik. ECP isn't commonly used on American railroads except where mandated or chosen by the railroad. Dynamic brakes are the primary braking method in North America and often allow the air brakes to remain entirely unused. Before those we had retainers to keep the brakes applied while the brake line was being recharged, the early solution to using too much air. That's why our air brakes are so slow to innovate- we don't rely on them so much.

[@danielboone3770]

Great to see too!

[@ZergSmasher]

You have such a cool job! If I'm ever in Colorado I'll try to make time to visit the museum and hopefully meet you while I'm there.

[@johnbishop9275]

Thanks!

[@SeaKing61]

Great Central Railway in the UK recently ran a 50 wagon train for their 50 yr anniversary. It was vacuum braked though

[@QuorkQTar]

We'd both be SO lost on the other railway/railroad respectively. Amazing xD Thanks for the insights! Also funny (in an absolutely non-judgemental way) how different our standards of what a nice stop is. Over here a stop with significantly set brakes wouldn't be considered nice; you try to release the brakes with such timing that you come to a stop with virtually zero brake cylinder pressure, gently rolling to a stop with but a residue of force. Ideally you don't feel any stopping jerk. But if you tried something like this with the equipment you have it'd, if I see it correctly, result in a hopeless cacophonia of cars jerking back and forth and rolling into each other and the retained cars pulling everything back again.

[@QuorkQTar]

Oh and considering nomenclature, yeah, feels familiar … here you have "run" just like you and "fill" where you have "release", so basically the same. But the thing is that the fill position doesn't work in this way any more most of the time; passenger trains usually have electro-pneumatic (ep) brakes. In most cases it's still the classic pneumatic brake system with an electropneumatic "add-on". Simplified: Every car has a solenoid valve between the brake pipe and the outside (setting valve) and one between the brake pipe and the car's reservoir (releasing valve). When the equalising reservoir pressure is lower than the brake pipe pressure (i.e. while setting), a pressure sensor activates the cars' setting valves, when the equalising reservoir pressure is higher it activates the cars' release valves. This way the pressure change propagates nearly instantaneously throughout the train no matter the length. Having the release/filling position in the automatic brake valve work would risk nearly instantaneous overcharging of the brakes, so it's cut off when the ep is on. And yet it's still in use - because it double serves for bridging someone pulling the emergency brake which we do to bring the train to a stop outside of places where that would be dangerous (mainly tunnels).

[@Hyce777]

Wacky, yeah, we'd both be lost then huh :D

[@QuorkQTar]

@@Hyce777 I'd sooo love to see it happen xD

[@jakobs3530]

Wow. Now that I’m finally watching these videos, it’s crazy how similar what you do at the museum is to what we do out on the big railroads. In my ignorance I always just assumed it was a lesser or dumbed down version of it, but it really isn’t! It’s really cool to see!

[@Hyce777]

I am sure there's many things that are scaled just by the nature of fewer cars, but it still is a big heavy thing with airbrakes. :D glad to hear it resonates

[@CoryAY82383]

Love that high tech foot on the johnson bar

[@karenesser7185]

This is so cool to watch this channel because I've been to this museum many times

[@shaunrichardson2346]

so sad i missed this by a week. but i still loved my visit to the museum. the kids and i really enjoyed the experience.

[@jamesbuckner4791]

Saluda has been shut down for a while now(i think around 2013ish). You have the grade to Columbia from Augusta which is 3.7 and you have the grade from Augusta to Spartanburg which is 3.4 The 3.7 hasn't been in use here recently.

[@Hyce777]

So I've heard. It was a steep hill name that came to mind for me, haha

[@jamesbuckner4791]

@@Hyce777 there are two routes that are still 4% grades that are still active. And the 3.7 just got new ties and ballast about 2 months ago.

[@PowerTrain611]

Wow, less than a ten-pound reduction brought that to a stop on the mark. Pretty incredible how having more brakes can pretty much negate the added weight... would like to understand how that works as well. Sounds like some interesting physics.

[@Hyce777]

Each car can only really apply so much force based on it's own weight - and proportionally, they're a fair bit smaller than the engine; so, to make up for the engine, you gotta have a fair bit of cars.

[@stevemellin5806]

That's right have fun . It looked great

[@user-tv6hl9gn2e]

491 got that cake tho

[@EdwinsTrains]

I have a old book that has a picture of 491 on Cumbres Pass with 29 cars before they go off the picture.

[@TSBoncompte]

BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII a new lecture on fucking trains les GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@akaBoG]

The event made for some shots.

[@Locomotion_Commotion]

13:54 me and mark casually having a conversation 😂

[@daverybigboyd1202]

The chugs are da best it gives me happiness

[@gusshadleythelunaticfromar7125]

WOW, you have two streamers there. I knew you had the "20" did not know you had the "491".

[@TheSilverShadow17]

The 491 is the prime tourist attraction at the museum as it gets the most run time out of the 2 steamers, I haven't seen much of the 20 but it's quite similar in proportion.

[@Dan_Gyros]

Awesome footage for this one!

[@mikezip9423]

Science!

[@AShadowboxsFSX]

Looks like you need an air brakes 102 for the retainers lol

[@Tater_Lord]

Today I discovered my cat doesn't like the sound of 491 going round the loop

[@ComerProductions193]

Epic video as always hyce

[@jakecarroll8657]

Try doing that with the Milwaukee roads 261 and R&R 2102... BOTH powerful and beautiful engines

[@Railblitz]

GIVE IT THE BEANS!

[@creepermaster6193]

Howdy yall

[@DeanWolter-jy8qu]

I’ve actually be considering applying for a job at the Durango and silverton railroad working with the locomotives. Fellow steam locomotive enthusiast to enthusiast, do you have any tips for beginners and how to work up the chain to engineer?

[@RC-Nightshift_ADHD]

repeating what Hyce has answerd to previous askees of the same question. Be willing to do the hard work, work hard, go in with an open mind and ask questions.

[@Hyce777]

Apply and go for it! They'll teach you all you need to know. Be receptive and ready to learn and work hard.

[@s16100]

very good information, thank you.

[@Zottobyte]

i would love to see a video of you touring (and maybe riding in?) the UP Big Boy 4014

[@Skipper77777777]

Cool primer on in-train forces and such. Can somebody please swap out that engineer’s green plastic cup holder for something less modern?!?

[@SeaEngineering]

A question for you Hyce, is the job of a fireman on a steam train similar to the job of a stoker on a steam ship??? A quick tip for you, steam on a ship uses feed water to go through the pipes, and returns to the boiler.

[@billbeverly2864]

Say Hi to Jeff Taylor for me, I knew him when he worked @ Knotts Berry Farm. -- Bill Beverly

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

Just some nitpicking. Did Hyce including the airpressure at the time of recording to calculate the speed of sound for synchronizing the Camaras 😂. Honestly I wouldn't have noticed it if they are out of sync by a second or two. I'm not very sensitive to such things.

[@TrainBandit]

What is your favorite job on the railroad. Firing or running

[@kfcgaming4891]

hi hyce love your videos I have a question about the steam engine 191 I would love to know more history about that train

[@Hyce777]

I owe that choochoo a video one of these days. It's neat. Oldest engine in the state of Colorado.

[@user-yn5fo9yl4z]

Hyce I think there is one Montezooma or a look alike still running in New Zealand

[@snowvrgt8667]

@Hyce777 do you have a direction that you guys go when operating or, is it just what you feel like? I also love that whistle on 491 too.

[@Johndoe-jd]

Mostly clockwise but every so often they go counterclockwise to wear out the wheel evenly

[@Hyce777]

Yeah, as Johndoe-jd said, clockwise is the most common, but we do go both ways to even out wear. Clockwise is better when fire danger is higher, as the cinders rain down on the museum, and not our neighbors' fields. The whistle on 491 is badass, I almost want to do an entire video on it :D

[@snowvrgt8667]

@@Hyce777 thank you for your reply :D

[@snowvrgt8667]

@@Johndoe-jd thanks for the reply :D

[@snowvrgt8667]

@@Hyce777 sorry if I give you a paragraph but, I have a little story and a couple questions. so my grandpa is a train lover much like me and we have a model railroad to maintain but back to the topic. I showed him your video about the ridgeway spark arrester and he loved it; I mean he wanted to look at different videos across the channel and was thinking about a membership to the channel. so, for the questions will we be seeing any more of the railroads online olympics? because I loved the porter toss and the galloping goose race. and for my other question have you been watching videos by squirrel? he has been showcasing different aspects of DV simulator, because the devs gave him early access? if you read this thank you! ;D

[@RollestonRails]

She needs a clean a repainting to the THEY WHERE GREEN and we need more smoke

[@Redwagon2012]

Hey hyce I was here too

[@Donald.H]

Yes, long train.

[@mrthejupp8093]

Would you ever do a video on engine 191 that’s sitting over on a siding?

[@Hyce777]

Planning on it at some point!

[@300poundbassman]

Hey Hyce. That was cool and informing. One question? What's Jeff's foot doing on the Johnson bar. When he closes the throttle and. Well my eyes are old and just thought I'd ask. Captain Nemo out🚂🚂🚂

[@Hyce777]

He's pushing the bar forward such that it travels it's full length, to even out wear. The K-37 bar is... so far forward it's easiest to use your foot for it. lol

[@darknut9696]

Does the railroad museum plan on expanding the track or are they happy with what is there?

[@Hyce777]

Need more land to do that. If that can happen, potentially!

[@Locomotion_Commotion]

He didn’t include “look, foam” 😢

[@captainkrazee7726]

Hey Hyce! Would you mind posting a tutorial to “Trains on Time” on your studio channel. Also the song I’ve been looking for is at the beginning of this video too!

[@Hyce777]

I enjoy that song, I'd be happy to. The one at the beginning is called "Big Hook" - it's not released yet. :) volume 2

[@captainkrazee7726]

@@Hyce777 Nice. I learned how to play it by ear but I’m exited for the second volume!

[@jacobramsey7624]

I don't know if this question will be answered, but I'm wondering how the water pump on a steam locomotive works when pre heaters are involved. On some steam locomotives, I've learned that they sometimes have extra tubs running in the boiler that the water goes through before entering the boiler, like a pre heater so the fire doesn't have to work as hard to heat up the water as much to save on energy and heating time. Now, what I'm curious about is how does the water pump move so much water? There must be a mile of pipes in the locomotive for water to go through and the pump only takes cold water so is there a special system to help move the water in locomotives like that?

[@thatoneguyinthecorner8501]

Hi everyone

[@gusshadleythelunaticfromar7125]

Heard old timers talking about, lap postion on the train line, can you elaborate on that?

[@FuelFire]

What does the degrees on a curve mean? I only understand what radius means

[@Hyce777]

www.trains.com/trn/train-basics/ask-trains/measuring-track-curvature/ Degree of curve is a wacky railroad way of knowing how sharp something is. There's tables out there for converting degree to radius. The article should help explain it.

[@Dachamp2001]

Doing the auto reduction how come he didn't bail off the loco brakes right after??

[@Mishn0]

Sounds like it's almost time for Air Brakes 102, or would it be 201 already?

[@ilannghost6306]

24 hours living in a caboose?

[@nielsleenknegt5839]

Was this train long enough to be on the level crossing while stopped at the station?

[@Hyce777]

About two more cars and it would've been right up against it.

[@AxiomRazor]

So.....no highballing?

[@RandomCNUnit]

Did you give it the beans while hyballing?

[@Hyce777]

yes

[@Girlywolf-tl4ju]

if engine power wasnt a problem is there a limit to how long a train can be

[@Hyce777]

Yeah, you reach a certain point where the couplers can't handle the force. More locomotives in the middle can fix that... so if you kept doing that, who knows. They run some pretty long trains nowadays... 16,000 foot long+.

[@rocketplane8862]

Does the K-37 have a low factor of adhesion or were conditions slightly wet? It sounded like it slipped several times going up the hill.

[@Hyce777]

We've got a few odd spots in the track, and it was a bit wet. In a sharp curve, any little dip can cause you to lose it pretty quick putting down that much power.

[@aperson7238]

what is that little crawler on the flat car ?

[@Hyce777]

It's Jeff's tractor.

[@Merp.1324]

Hello Hyce. Does C.RR.M. let tourests run a train?

[@Merp.1324]

If so that would be funny lol

[@Hyce777]

We do not - there's a lot that goes into it. We do let folks try out the handcar on select days. :)

[@Merp.1324]

@@Hyce777Thx. What are the days?

[@Johndoe-jd]

is there any locomotive that can be put at tunnage at the museum?

[@ethanheska7044]

The geese

[@Hyce777]

346 & 20 and very easily. They couldn't pull this train.

[@Johndoe-jd]

@@Hyce777 Thanks. I also assume that peaches can’t get to tonnage because there isn’t enough cars and space, correct?

[@Hyce777]

@@Johndoe-jd I mean there's space, we just don't have enough serviceable cars to make it happen really lol

[@Railroader299]

FIRST

[@Redwagon2012]

I was first lol

[@hansvonflammenwerfer2817]

@@Redwagon2012 He was actually first

[@Redwagon2012]

I comitted before he

[@hansvonflammenwerfer2817]

When i wrote the other comment, you commented 7 minutes ago, and he 12