Why Modifying Your Suspension Often Isn't Worth It (Road Cars)

[@CS-iv6hp]

Spot on, however the singular “flaw” in the logic of the Tire Rack test is the vehicle tested was a BMW 3-Series, which has one of the best factory-tuned suspensions and chassis available. Hard to improve on that with just bolt-ons. It would be more helpful if Tire Rack repeated the test with a common mainstream car like an Accord, etc.

[@duncanplaysguitar]

My thought exactly, or even like a gen 1 mx-5. In that case I wonder if it's best to install aftermarket kits just to replace aging hardware

[@LightningxRaiden]

Heck and the X Gen Accord can handle well too. It’s crazy what it can do,.. ( I have one )

[@mvonsmallhausen3221]

Not only that, at some point the condition of the suspension starts to play a role, as just swapping out old parts for new OE parts can be highly beneficial to how the car handles.

[@davidpistek6241]

Yes I agree I own a civic si 20,a car at a lower price point or a economy minded car will have more compromise in suspension tuning or if the test was done on like a gti or civic how different would the results be

[@CS-iv6hp]

@@LightningxRaiden Agreed. I had an older Accord, which is what made me think of it. The new Accords have very well-tuned suspensions. Great ride!

[@garthw2044]

BMW 3-series already has a pretty amazing suspension from factory, so I can see how aftermarket upgrades would have less of an impact on performance. I would like to see the tests done on an economy car.

[@kenisahrer]

Not sure about now but the old ones are eibach?

[@racingdaily3674]

Same with F22 2-series.

[@marvinzhang3734]

nah bro, the body roll is unacceptable. I have a f30 340i xdrive and i know what i'm talking about.

[@TheseThreeZs]

A civic needs sway bars to become usable when taking any corner at 40+. My 98 LX rolled like a boat whenever i got on an entrance ramp before I upgraded.

[@DezDav4]

@@racingdaily3674 I found going to coilovers on my F22 greatly increased the speed of my cobra maneuver

[@R_C420]

I need a comprehensive white-board explanation on how that hat stayed on your head.

[@bontonswanson8977]

Wind go fwoosh over windshield

[@eefneleman9564]

Aerodynamics. And that little netted thing behind him.

[@Blackhammers69]

It’s a Miata

[@shwang2k]

It's cause his driver side window isn't rolled down.

[@isabinmarius911]

Nah. Some Gorilla Glue will do it.

[@johnyost9721]

A wise man suggested Upgrades in this order: tires, then the driver then the suspension.

[@Mpeterson1286]

Stop. Steer. Go. That is your order of mods.

[@xXYannuschXx]

Tires are probably the most important and also cheapest performance factor on any car. A good set of tires can make a TON of difference how a car behaves and increase its performance. A big reason modern hot hatches beat 10 year old supercar lap times are the tires. Most people dont seem to get that though and I see tons of performance cars with REALLY shitty tires on them.

[@eurosonly]

Hip youtubers: check out my 1000 horsepower LS swapped miata.

[@Ellipsis115]

lol

[@Ellipsis115]

@@Mpeterson1286 Isn't suspension steering and like a turbo on some cars can be like 20-30% more horsepower if you're looking for speed benefits

[@duffyt26]

Jasons wife tells him she loves him. He lokks confused and asks; "But by HOW MUCH, in numbers?". Ah yes, the engineering brain!

[@Gibson99]

42

[@nickhuynh6321]

Maybe her attorney can answer in numbers much better...

[@androiduberalles]

9.8m/s^2

[@Justice2012freedom]

😃😄😅😆😆😆😆😂😂😂😂 great!!!

[@yungboicontigo9278]

Lokks? Is this your best?

[@kemsatofficial]

To be honest, I wanna see them try that with a worse car. BMW already makes premium & luxury cars with performance in mind. Let me see how it improves a civic’s performance if you swap out the stock parts.

[@jtunedproductions4818]

Makes much more than a 1% difference on almost any Honda. Their suspensions have reliability/efficiency and comfort, very little performance so good coilovers is a must to make that pocket rocker glide

[@jenkinsjohn15]

Tire Rack probably did that study to show that tires are a better performance upgrade than an fully modded suspension. I'm surprised Jason didn't mention that a set of better tires could bring much more than a 1% increase. We all know how Jason loves tires.

[@dickinaround87]

Truth! Also consider that the suspension upgrades may make a more significant performance difference when paired with a tire that has more grip!

[@NovaResource]

I totally agree and was just about to post the same thing. The stock tires probably give up well before the upgraded suspension will show improvements. And like you said, upgraded tires first will show more of an immediate improvement. Then once you have the better tire grip you will then be able to take advantage of an upgraded suspension.

[@arekb5951]

@@dickinaround87 That certainly is the case. In left hairpins my friend's Evo X used to put the left rear in the air and right front would sit on a bump stop on stock suspension+slick tire setup. However, to make things better spring rates and damping force has to be carefully calculated to take into consideration how suspension geometry behaves throughout suspension travel range etc. Most kids nowadays just put a set of coilovers and slam the car as low as it will go and say the handling is much better. All I can say is "Sure kid, enjoy halved tire lifespan, bump steer, toe steer and messed up roll center".

[@bvedant]

This study by TireRack was done over a decade ago and not sure if it still holds relevance. Not sure what the situation is now

[@daszieher]

@@arekb5951 especially roll centre is ignored. Most people don't understand that given the conventional suspension geometries, roll centre is ideal around a certain ride height. Stray too far away from that design ride height and an otherwise docile car will turn squirrelly. Suspension should be as soft as you can get away with for the given dynamics to ensure maximum tyre compliance. The best bang for buck is always setting your tyre pressure correctly. Most often overlooked by boy racers 😆

[@wingedlion17]

I value how the car feels. The grip maybe be them same but the confidence and feeling of control through corners of a car with body roll vs no body roll makes a big difference.

[@the_skips]

Body roll is a pretty noticeable thing. I remember that michael Jackson feeling when driving ford galaxy on roundabouts and nearly tipping over. But that is all about anti-roll bars, right?

[@sandman2b]

Interesting study by Tire Rack, yet what they really showed was how well tuned the stock suspension is on the BMW 3 series.

[@lgilles]

Was going to say a 3 Series is very different from something like a muscle car which is different from a sedan which is different from a truck etc. There’s probably lots of cars out there that would absolutely benefit from suspension modifications even though the study came to a different conclusion.

[@duomaxwell5807]

Makes you wonder if tire rack is a credible source for such an experiment....like the BMW 3 series has race inspired suspension from day one....I think they should stick to tires

[@Saj5DJ]

There isn't really anything magical or race inspired about a non M E9X 3 series. Mac Struts up front, multilink out back, pretty standard stuff. Plus the non M units equipped with run flat tires are heavily panned by the enthusiast and grassroots racing community for the suspension deflection worked in to compensate for the stiff riding RFT's. That said, the Eibach R1 coilovers that TR used not being an upgrade over stock is very not surprising. All coilovers are not equal. Far from it.

[@TheSuburban15]

Yeah, I had the same thought. Would like to see the same test done with a Camry, or something a little more mundane.

[@jamescaley9942]

You mean a manufacturer with a budget of millions did a better job than amateurs doing make-shift changes or companies who just want to sell you stuff. Who'd have thought..

[@DavidRainesAZ]

I'm always impressed at Jason's flow and composure while driving, not seeming to have notes nearby (he could somewhere off-camera) or having someone in-car assisting, etc. Really impressive! And always great content :)

[@tlgx884]

Engineers often have to do reports and things like that, he must be pretty used to memorising a subject and not forget anything

[@ApexwithDavin]

10 years of Youtubing will help with that practice.

[@LochyP]

He knows his stuff. Doesn't need to reference notes because the knowledge is all in his noggin'

[@kstricl]

I think Sabine Schmitz showed how the best upgrade to performance on modern vehicles is upgrading the driver when she nearly broke 10 minutes on the Nurburgring - in a delivery van. Most people that do these upgrades never do anything that warrants them.

[@hb2434]

Yeah but my fender to lip fitment

[@kingotime8977]

Rip

[@harshithsadhana7475]

she also drove the jag diesel on the track first time broke jeremy's lap time quote by bbc & Richard hammond

[@ScathingMobile]

Except she modified the van in order to get close, and used a leading draft car to provide slipstream.

[@wahid3837]

@@ScathingMobile ok.... she took out the back seats and drove behind someone.. so what

[@chemtrailsunset]

I did just sway bars on my NB Miata and I think that was the perfect suspension mod for it. Doesn't really make the car any stiffer, but just dials back the body roll and makes it a little more responsive to changes in direction.

[@endlessnameless6480]

It is certainly worth noting that not all manufacturers tune their stock suspensions as well as BMW

[@freshofftheplane]

But then not all performance shops tune the coilovers as well as a 2nd tier OE does its stock suspension.

[@StressedYeti]

Also, it can definitely be worth it if you're upgrading an older car.

[@lePoMo]

Same for MX-5. Not all manufacturers use Bilstein as stock dampers :) Though not sure if it is stock on all versions. Used to be part of a package I think.

[@louiewatson9389]

You mean with ridiculously negative camber 🤣

[@MattBrownbill]

Some people don't l ike a harsh ride, with elastic band tyres.

[@hawkeallen1319]

I once ubered the guy who started BBS. He said that they could put heaps of power on a car and it would change the track time by only a second or two. Where as by dialing in the wheel, tire, suspension setup they could drop their time by 10-20 seconds per lap. I think the key to it is having grippier tires, because the tire will lose grip at the same speed no matter the suspension. He was definitely an advocate for suspension upgrades over power upgrades to improve track time. It just depends on your individual goals for the car.

[@thedirtbag7]

I can confirm. I pushed my old 97 miata at max speed through a "course" with just good track tires, then tested with the tires and aggressive suspension. Lateral grip (speed possible through sweepers) was the same. The huge difference was in transferring weight and changing direction. Hands down in favor of suspension upgrade Edit: also, once you break past the point of grip, stiffer suspension will make it much more predictable giving you a better chance to correct small mistakes

[@bencovington6180]

I will second this whole heartedly. The suspension didnt really effect maximum grip (which makes sense because the tires mainly provide grip) but the weight transfer happens way faster, which means direction changes happen faster. Also you can adjust the understeer/oversteer balance, and when you lose grip, it is much more predictable.

[@rolandotillit2867]

Stiffer suspension compensates for low chassis stiffness.

[@v4skunk739]

@@rolandotillit2867 Nope. The chassis will twist even more with stiffer suspension and stickier tyres.

[@rolandotillit2867]

@@v4skunk739 You're still adding suspension stiffness because your chassis isn't stiff enough. If you stiffen the chassis, you can get away with more compliant suspension. Ultimately the suspension and chassis act as a lever arm on the roll center. You have to consider the compliance of the entire system, the bushings deform, the suspension deforms, the chassis deforms, and all of this will migrate the roll center/COG. You stiffen stuff to keep the RC/COG from moving where you don't want it moving. If you stiffen bushings, or the chassis it becomes part of the soup of tuning the RC/COG. Take EE's Miata, it's a very stiff chassis with very even weight distribution but relatively soft suspension, the result is a car whose COG/RC can be placed exactly where the driver wants it with ease.

[@boozecruiser]

Most modders aren't racing their cars anyway. They're absolutely ham fisted behind the wheel, they won't be going anywhere near the limits of the car unless they've got a death wish

[@Sold_a_dummy]

I did mine for the looks mostly. In this test, they started with a very high baseline. These changes on a carolla might give more drastic results.

[@TheRobotSpy]

Yeah starting with a BMW was an interesting choice. They already start with sport tuned suspensions. Guarantee that on most cars it makes a bigger difference. Pick a car from a company that isn't world renowned for sport driving experience. Guarantee it would make more than a 1% difference on a Hyundai.

[@danu91rox]

I think it also depends on how good or bad the stock suspension was. Otherwise these findings are useless.

[@mulletsquirrel]

I've got a 200k mile car that I'm putting coils on because that suspension is likely very tired.

[@daszieher]

@@mulletsquirrel "upgrading" tired parts to OEM-spec new components does wonders. I found out on my E46...

[@Dcc357]

Base model suspension on Corvettes suck.

[@BlacckChrome]

Exactly... every car is different and numbers aren’t everything. My golf r is 6mt even though dsg is better in every other way, and my handling upgrades did make noticeable differences to the driving feel.

[@seattlehines9033]

Yeah they’re looking at brand new suspension with modern technology and tuning on a BMW, I would say a car that didn’t come with a “performance” oriented suspension from the factory and is 10+ years old would see a substantial increase with any suspension mods

[@bobdfranks]

The true purpose of all performance upgrades is so that they can go to Cars and Coffee and say "Look at the performance upgrades I've installed."

[@chadhouser3190]

I’m inclined to agree with this statement..... even though I’m guilty of it lol

[@JPZ89]

YES LOL

[@GuyKirk]

@@chadhouser3190 OMG!!! i busted out laughing reading your comment... Good one. :)

[@yaboiijebus]

i mean working on cars is also a hobby and escape

[@GT6SuzukaTimeTrials]

More like "Look at how rich I am, peasants."

[@zokusharuuku1091]

A lot of oem suspension on newer cars these days are designed with pretty decent handling even in suvs and are also decently comfortable at the same time. Go back 15-20 years and those suspension modifications will make a much bigger difference especially in something like an early 2000s Buick that would just sway lean and bounce several times over any sort of surface.

[@tristanhanley8741]

Sway bars are probably the best thing to change from a stock suspension. If you aren't going to go a full(including arms and things) kit then the sway bars will have minimal impact on bump performance and NVH in terms of comfort, but can really improve body roll characteristics.

[@AbeYousef]

yeah sway bars, strut bars are always my go to (also chassis stiffening stuff if the car doesn't have it). Stiffer the chassis the more forgiving the suspension can be, its a win win

[@Kalaninumberone]

Next "should you" vid: Big brake upgrade!

[@Kalaninumberone]

I have a near bone-stock Evo X. I see a lot of guys driving heavily modified STI's and Evo's. I see them and think "the suspension is pretty good. Why would I want to change it?" That said, I am in the midst of changing the suspension on my Forester XT!

[@Sharpmkyle]

Yes! I’d like to know if it would be worth it to upgrade to a 6 piston front caliper from a 4 piston

[@pjay3028]

@@Sharpmkyle it would definitely be worth it for the shop selling them.

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

Agreed, other than larger heat sink I don't see how bigger rotors or calipers with more pistons will increase braking performance if the limiting factor is still tire traction.

[@michaelblacktree]

I think it's hilarious when people install big brake kits, with cheap tires.

[@Slyons89]

All I did on my 2016 ND Club was install the Goodwin Roadstersport springs, dropped the car by like 0.75" and helped with the body roll. They are well matched to the stock ND1 bilsteins. The springs are a little stiffer to make up for the drop, but nothing crazy. The ride quality is still great and it helped reduce the body roll in corners and diving under breaking. I got the aftermarket bumpstops they recommended as well to help with the ride whenever the suspension does actually bottom out over a big bump. Very nice setup for very little cost.

[@seebeeeff]

One major thing to take in to consideration is the age of the car. If they ran those tests on a mid 90’s car, as opposed to a modern 3-series, modern aftermarket suspension components will make much more of a difference compared to the 30 year old OEM components (which could also be well worn)

[@daftnord4957]

then my question is, replace with oem/ or oem style? or replace "performance" aftermarket?

[@aygwm]

That isn’t the comparison they are trying to make. This was fresh factory suspension vs upgrades. If you drove a brand new 90s car you’d probably be surprised at how well it rode and performed from the factory.

[@miatamarine1210]

I definitely agree, often times when people put aftermarket parts on older cars its cause the OE stuff is broken and actively more dangerous than aftermarket.

[@kylefaulkner9645]

You mention old parts, but that isn’t apples to apples. My 2006 Dodge Charger suspension is wearing out so I’ll naturally notice a larger difference going to a new performance setup. However, I will also feel a large difference going from old parts to new OEM parts. Therefore, the comparison for an experiment must be between similar aged components such as swapping out new OEM for new performance parts. Otherwise, you degrade your statistical data with more variables.

[@kylereese4822]

The way I lowered my Golf 1 GTD(2.1 litre crank/block mods about 230-250bhp) in 1996 was put all the new suspension on with all lose bolts lowered the car on the jack till the full car weight was almost on the ground then tighten to bolts go for a drive then slacken the bolts just enough then quickly do a re-tighten - I lowered the car 2 inches then raised it 1/2 inch.... had no strange ware on the tires, no squeaks, no misalignment slightly better fuel mpg, and tires lasted longer too :):)

[@fredwells7403]

Haven't watched the video yet but I can tell you that putting coilovers on my miata was my best 1k ever spent on a car (and I've probably spent over 15k on mods in my life) It increased the handling by an unbelievable amount, also the comfort increase, and plus it made the car look better. I woll now watch the video to understand why you wrote this title :)

[@TelepathicRabbit]

“Damping.” It’s the small things that solidify our faith in Jason’s engineering content.

[@AmirPomen]

5th option: coilover+sway bar+geometry correction caster,bumpsteer bush kit

[@kanmuridavid]

I think an underrated facet of modifying suspension is inspiring driver confidence, which goes a long way for how fast someone drives.

[@dogchainsaw3923]

Yea and how often can you go fast to warrant the added confidence, without going to jail or getting a ticket?

[@MIH11MI6]

I agree, and it's also how the car makes you personally feel. Idk about you but when I'm enjoying a country road in my low, stiffer than factory car and I can feel the road through the car, it makes me happy. Regardless of the numerical performance benefits it's not always a measurable feel of enjoyment, it's how the experience makes you feel

[@thomasrogers8239]

This is definitely the case, I'm driving a hyundai accent and I apologize when I hit potholes because not only do I feel the pothole but also how expensive fixing that is going to be.

[@ytfytf1265]

@@MIH11MI6 I agree. If putting a big wing makes you think you have more grip and that makes you happy. Awesome

[@jasonf478]

Engineering Explained : Why Modifiying Your Suspension Often Isn't Worth It Fitment Industries : 😑

[@Lukebarca]

Donut Media: lets run a test with so many variables the test is pointless.

[@PrioCaptSend]

Tavarish: I haven’t even got time to modify my suspension

[@ZillaFullBoost]

ZillaFullBoost: cut 1.53 60ft on with lowering springs

[@adkimhamilton1953]

😂😂😂

[@NetworthDividends]

Chris Fix It: Ay we’re all family here

[@jacksonblanks8038]

It's almost like the engineers who designed the car in the beginning knew what they were doing

[@ThunderGoatz]

Really depends on the car, sometimes platforms can really do better with something simple like a rear sway bar (MK7 GTIs)

[@jacksonblanks8038]

@@ThunderGoatz depends on what your using the car for. If it's what the engineers designed it for then leave it alone but if it's built to be comfortable or to handle a certain way then a slight change may make it better

[@hunterbrink9346]

screw it 18k springs

[@ammm90000]

Almost. That's the key word to that sentence.

[@jacksonblanks8038]

@@ammm90000 well they can only make a car one way, they usually choose a little understeer which is best for the avg driver but a stiffer rear sway bar to make the car more neutral may help a better driver.

[@mostyles328]

Best KZbin channel I have found and have saved me thousands in unnecessary mods on my 124 spider. New Tires and wheels and its great. Don't mod it, until you break it!

[@_anty_]

Actually goodwin racing roadstersport racing springs are way better than stock Abarth. Just keep stock sway bars...

[@mostyles328]

@@_anty_ I have a Classica w/ Enkei PF01 - 215/45/17 ECS Conti's... I might still do springs and shocks, but only to lower the car about an inch to help with roll and stance. It's more cosmetic than performance on street. (no autocross) Even Brian w/ Goodwin might agree with me. But, we do buy these cars as a toy. We like to play!

[@martinfisker7438]

No one is gonna run the stop watch when im on the street, and when my brain gets impaled by my spine every time i hit a pebble, i feel like a racing driver... And thats worth all the money to me

[@RodofAllTrades]

I am 100% behind keeping the stock suspension on a car. Every road vehicle has a purpose. The biggest improvement I had in grip and handling was when I replaced my stock wheels and tires with lighter and stickier ones. Great video!

[@malcolmn.5222]

They build a road vehicle to a specification so that average person can scoot around. Unless it's a high performance car the stock suspension will have limitations

[@wobblysauce]

Most people that do changes to the vehicle... are replacing old components... not new stuff so any change is generally going to make it feel better.

[@Meekmillan]

GP_Motorsports for a second I thought you said changing to BC. So I was gunna make a joke about their coilovers but now I can't and I'm deeply saddened.

[@Scorpio1075]

It’s good to be informed on the results of mods. I think feel IS worth the cost, just like buying an exhaust to make a car sound more aggressive even if the performance gains are marginal. The only reason for buying a sports car is because it triggers and emotional response when driving it, if a mod makes the driving experience more enjoyable then it’s worth the money. :)

[@1061shrink1061]

Tyre wear is my biggest reason for making changes. On track with standard suspension geometry, you absolutely tear through the shoulders of tyres. But most OE setups don't have sufficient camber adjustment or roll resistance to avoid this. This puts us in the hand of aftermarket changes.

[@kurzabel]

I imagine even for road cars, my M3 that I drive on weekends exclusively on twisty mountain roads would benefit from those changes more than your M3 that you mainly drive to work on the freeway?

[@Sprchkn]

I'm also wondering how stiffer bushings, such as poly ones, might help with that too. I've not ever seen any real objective data on that.

[@maceocapietto4090]

Wining 3 tenths in 29 seconds is a lot, in a track lap it's a second more or less which is an insane improvement and you can feel you are able to keep more speed and have a better balance. Even if the numbers are small the difference is big !

[@cooprdog3793]

Thank you for this! These noobs don't realize that 1% is an eternity in motorsport.

[@josephsarach6872]

@@cooprdog3793it literally says road cars on the title lmao

[@ElPants21]

Be interesting to see if those numbers hold on a car not as well tuned for handling as a new ish BMW. I'd suspect the delta would be larger

[@1AmTheStig]

Yeah I don't know why they would choose a new BMW for this test. I'm sure the stock suspension setup on a BMW 3 series is a lot more expensive than many aftermarket setups.

[@RB-YWGLGA]

Agree all over the place. Why not more commonly suspension-modded road cars???

[@Xander1Sheridan]

and maybe include an aftermarket suspension a little more expensive than $1400. That's not exactly the best they can do. This "test" looks like it was configured with a result already in mind.

[@scottswanson8520]

Good points, glad you mentioned tire wear. My stock M2 was shredding the outside of the front tires on the track even though it handled fine IMO. I had to install camber plates and dial in more camber so the tires would last a full weekend. I hadn't planned on modifying this car but this was a necessary change. (Afterwards though, I could get through traffic circles quite a bit faster!)

[@ChadWilson]

A lot of car mods are about what the driver feels and thinks, even if the change doesn't result in mo' powuh or herspers. It is better to feel faster than to be faster, right? :)

[@ChavezDIY]

Right on point. Driving is a daily task and we spend so much time doing it, why not make it feel fun. When I had a Corolla I hated driving and it was such a chore, but when I bought a civic ex I had more fun driving and it didn't feel like a chore anymore.

[@abhayvadhavkar2231]

You are amongst the top five KZbin video series, period. As an engineer, I really enjoy your explanations.

[@charliemaybe]

i think that changing suspension is a feeling thing or preparing your car for a more track car feel. For a sporty daily driver (ie: no super huge mods to the car) the suspension is for the feel.

[@umchind]

I really appreciate that you don't do that annoying intro that every youtuber seems to do "Wwwwwhat is up everybody! (blah blah blah) Don't forget to smash that like and subscribe button, hit that bell icon to turn on notifications! (blah blah blah) So without further ado, let's jump right into it!"

[@sjhanksaz]

BMWs already are pretty tuned for performance from the factory. Did tire rack do any testing on cars that from the factory are not so tuned from the factory?

[@juzoli]

All cars are like that. Journalists are pleased by good steering response and fun driving experience, not by comfortable ride. So cars with stiffer suspension sells better in most segments, but definitely in segments where a buyer would consider aftermarket parts.

[@Hot_Guac]

I also thought that. Are people swapping suspensions on their new BMW? I think it just shows BMW and the performance companies have similar engineering goals. It would be interesting to see the parts installed on a 1st gen Miata, a really old BMW or something that could benefit from 10-20+ years of progress.

[@juzoli]

@@Hot_Guac People are often changing suspensions on brand new Mustangs for example.

[@john_dee1431]

It's totally worth it! Thrust and focus of the Tire Rack article is laying out options for subjective driving feel. G-force results are way down on the results list. Being a driver and finding a setup that matches your taste is the whole point!

[@GioBunny.818]

Loved the video. I think most people do it for the lowered look overall things. But yes some for feel and performance as well. I know I’m gonna change my suspension mostly to lower my car and close up the wheel well gaps. But honestly would be nice to see if someone else has more data on this subject. But either way always enjoy your videos and enjoy learning more about cars🤓

[@saganworshipper6062]

As the owner of a BMW 328, if you are telling me that if I converted my suspension by putting as many M3 parts onto my car as I can manage to fit, control arms, subframe bushings, upgraded ball joints, tie rods, etc etc, in essence making it a virtual M3, that it isn't going to significantly change my handling, I am going to have a REALLY hard time believing that. I think we can agree that the handling between an M3 and a 328 is massively different, so even if I got my 328 to be like halfway between a 328 and an M3, I think it would totally be worth it. I can't afford to do that lol but if I could........I feel like Tire Rack is trying to get everyone that is thinking of doing suspension upgrades, to just buy some really expensive wheels and tires instead.

[@jayjohnson3732]

Good content. For people bashing the current MX-5 body role , the suspension is designed to cope with rough American back roads.

[@bologna3048]

because when I think "Rough American Back Roads" I think "Miata" lol

[@jayjohnson3732]

@@bologna3048 I don't know where live, but I can promise you there are an endless number of backroads in the more rural areas of the country that are a LOT of fun to drive, while at the same time are NOT smooth. Many of them with corners rough enough to bounce a stiffly sprung Mercedes sport coupe or an MX-5 that is modified to corner absolutely flat right off the road at speed.

[@TassieLorenzo]

I think it's just designed for older buyers and comfort... The 86 has (and S2000 had) a stiffer setup, designed more for fast response time of the chassis.

[@jayjohnson3732]

@@TassieLorenzo Believe what you will, but the philosophy of compliance to cope with rough American back roads behind the suspension tuning of the current generation MX-5 is as reported in a print magazine review after discussions with Mazda Engineers.

[@dacarguru7983]

In the case of BMWs being tested, I can imagine minimal performance gains with aftermarket suspensions. But BMW has always been a performance oriented brand, and the 3-series in almost all flavors is usually the handling benchmark. Now if we were to get comparisons for a usual econobox with OE suspension and then upgrades, I think it’s safe to say that the margins in handling performance would be huge, and worth the money / feel. I’d like to see Tire Rack take a base Toyota Camry and perform the same test, so that majority of the folks who’s aren’t buying luxury BMWs for their performance needs, can see what sort of performance gains can be achieved. Awesome video btw Jason, everyone needed to hear this !

[@Wydarr]

Is this a Miata in S2000 yellow? 🤭

[@Fee.1]

Did he sell the s2000? I don’t even recall

[@jakekiedaisch2279]

@@Fee.1 yeah he sold the s2000 a year and a half ago.

[@Fee.1]

@@jakekiedaisch2279 did he put a roots blower on the Miata too? I bitched at him for choosing a belt driven turbo(supercharger) in the s2000 and told him he mischaracterized it etc but iirc he actually rectified all that when he got the Miata? Been a crazy couple years ago so I can’t even tell you if I’m dreaming that or not

[@jakekiedaisch2279]

@@Fee.1 Yeah he put a roots style supercharger on the miata in the form of the Eaton kit.

[@Fee.1]

@@jakekiedaisch2279 thanks, all caught up now

[@FriendlyPhoton]

In most cases, I've found that alignment changes (specifically caster and camber, but also toe) will have much more effect on actual handling performance than all the fancy components, though often at the cost of increased tire wear. However most modern suspensions don't allow for caster or camber adjustment without adjustable aftermarket bits. Also, simply lowering a car won't do much unless it positively affects the roll center as well. In many cases, lowering a car drops its center of gravity, but actually raises its roll center, thereby resulting in a zero or negative gain in performance. So it ends up being mostly a cosmetic change.

[@Genjokoan]

I placed an order yesterday for a set of Coilovers. I do not think I am going to regret the purchase. I do think they can make a really big difference on say, my Miata NB2.

[@zknarc]

"But by HOW MUCH, in numbers?"

[@bobkinney2430]

I just took my first ride yesterday. My bike has been in the shop for a rebuild. Worth every penny I spent. It's riding better than new :)

[@Youthfulplayer]

Suspension can be a huge supporting mod that is good to do before adding more power. You don't want to learn that you need coilovers while spinning out on turn 3

[@engdallal]

I’m test driving a 2016 Miata club tonight. You helped me make my mind up

[@Slyons89]

If you like small roadsters you can't go wrong! I bought my 2016 Club new in summmer 2016, it's survived 5 years of daily driving and 55k miles so far flawlessly without any repairs other than regular maintenance. It puts a smile on my face every time drive it. Hell, I smile every time I even look at it haha.

[@engdallal]

@@Slyons89 I bought it 😃

[@jonytube]

@@engdallal wholesome section right here

[@Slyons89]

@@engdallal Hell yea! congrats!

[@KomboAndy]

Suspension: As soft as possible, as hard as necessary.

[@ian.williamson]

They also tested this on a bmw, bmw suspension is designed to be comfortable yes but also sporty. They should’ve used some kind of economy car and upgraded the suspension, there would be a much bigger difference because the suspension wouldn’t be designed for sportiness

[@joshuabenitez3260]

Closing the wheel gap is a performance benefit 😀

[@mulletsquirrel]

And a quantifiable one!

[@benjamingray3673]

living that fitment life! not even moving and it looks fast...

[@demoonlux9758]

If car has gap, then car is crap. Fitmentlations 4:58

[@TassieLorenzo]

It depends! Lower COG is good, however reduced suspension travel is (usually) bad. Realigning the suspension arms such that the roll moment is a greater distance (and the car actually rolls MORE than before) is also bad. So it all depends. Ideally, the factory setting will be low "enough" and designed correctly, or the car can be lowered a little bit more (say 20-30mm) without messing up the geometry. :)

[@Paratyphi]

The guy on the opposite side of the road at 3:41 : "Honey, i saw a guy in a yellow car on the road, he was doing me strange signs i still don't understand."

[@jameshuegli3534]

Miss my ND Miata. Favorite driving car I’ve owned. Just sooo much fun.

[@glenf4115]

“Good suspension should soothe your brow, not attack it with a pair of scissors.” - Jeremy Clarkson

[@staLkerhu]

Don't forget he said a bunch of bullcr*p too...

[@archygrey9093]

You uploaded 3 minutes ago and you already have 3 dislikes, who the hell dislikes a video without even watching it?

[@zachpare206]

Big suspension

[@castronautmusic]

Haters will be haters

[@dangelorykard7937]

The modified suspension Bois

[@joshpinchuk7061]

I actually suspect that many thumbs down are accidental mouse slips or finger slips, and people meant to press thumbs up.

[@Prestonesfpv]

Boyracers and keyboard warriors who have spent a gazillion on worthless coilovers for their pandas

[@Jason-gt2kx]

This is why I love your channel. You like proof through real testing, not just giving opinions.

[@joshpinchuk7061]

Jason many BMWs are engineered for performance from the factory. This would have been a more interesting test had they done it with a base Honda Civic. That is the type of car that more of the population is going to be modifying the suspension on.

[@tiagobelo4965]

Or an older miata

[@TassieLorenzo]

Suspension should be interchangeable between a base Civic and Si. Swapping those and seeing the results could be interesting. However the base Civic is not that soft, cars like the Cruze and (surprisingly) Jetta have much softer suspension in base form. A swap of suspension between base Jetta and Jetta GLI would also do the trick, to demonstrate the pros and cons of sports suspension vs comfort suspension. :)

[@joshpinchuk7061]

@@TassieLorenzo good point, hondas are relatively well sorted compared to say toyota.

[@JasonSimonSmith]

Thanks Jason ! Bang for buck on a road car, I focus on the following: - Lighter wheels with quality tires (less unsprung weight itself is like a suspension upgrade. Doesn't have to work as hard) - Modest drop (~1.5") with springs & affiliated camber adjustment/alignment. (lower center of gravity) - Thicker rear sway bar. (Dials out understeer and reduces body roll) I've done that formula on an Integra, an e30, and a Mini Cooper with great results - and now I'm in progress of doing the same formula on an Element.

[@benmarr352]

Roll centre?

[@fipfip3331]

Putting tein coilovers in my Honda Fit daily made it just feel more fun to drive as well as a little more comfortable (I went with the softest option they make). I honestly did it to have like a finger when gap tho😂 yes I am fixing my roll center before anyone starts yelling at me😂

[@rars0n]

I used to take my car to the drag strip every week. I downsized the wheels from 17" to 16", which had the added benefit that the wheels were 7" wide instead of 6.5" of the stock wheels, so that I could run both larger sidewalls and wider tires (the wheels were also 2/3 of the weight of the stock ones). I changed the shocks and springs and added strut tower braces (not really necessary for drag racing, but definitely noticeable on the street when taking corners). The stock suspension was just too soft for my taste, and stiffening it up was critical to eliminating wheel hop when launching at the track. I love Tire Rack, I buy all of my tires from them and they are a good resource for a lot of great information. I think the takeaway here is that modern OEM suspensions are REALLY well designed and tuned. My car was a 1997 and handled great for its time, but a moderately sporty vehicle 2 decades newer is going to handle a lot better. Kudos to car manufacturers for improving handling so much, even if there is still a bit of understeer baked into them for safety reasons. Now, if we could just get them to stop putting giant wheels with no sidewall on every vehicle, that'd be great. The thing is, while hard data like this is great to be able to definitively point to, there's still subjective value at play when it comes to handling. One setup might pull a bit more g's on the skidpad, but if it snap oversteers, then it might not inspire confidence in the driver to use all of that grip. If the driver can't drive at 100%, then the data could be irrelevant (just an example). I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that improving handling isn't just about springs or shocks. While it's great that there could be a benefit to springs alone, if I were personally doing it one at a time, I'd start with a set of adjustable shocks, because that's usually a better improvement when combined with the OEM springs, rather than using stiffer springs with the OEM shocks. But I wouldn't do it that way anymore. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to upgrade an individual component when the other components are matched to the thing that you're replacing. I'd go with a full shock/spring set, something that is high-quality and designed to work together AND be adjustable, so that the components are matched. And don't forget about anti-sway bars, either, as these work in combination with the spring rates to provide additional effective spring rate as the body wants to roll. Likewise, the tires are one of the most important pieces to the equation, along with the wheels which contribute to unsprung weight. All of these things should be matched together, rather than just changed individually in a haphazard fashion. I think that with all of these factors in mind, it's still possible to improve the handling of a modern car, especially depending on personal driving style. But the old way of throwing on some springs and some shocks is probably not going to be a big enough improvement for the loss in ride quality and noise. You'd have to invest more time and money in quality parts and setting them all up to make it worth it, and even then, unless you're specifically looking for more spirited handling or regularly going to the track, it still might not be worth it. I tend to drive older cars, and suspension upgrades are a must for a lot of them.

[@anthonyriestra848]

Definitely an awesome video! I’m surprised by how little “upgrading” suspension really upgrades the vehicle performance. I’m considering buying aftermarket suspension and want the lower ride height and spent countless hours trying to research the performance benefit. There seems to not be much of one but personalizing your own car to how you want it to feel/look should be worth your money after some research. I’m glad I watched this video, phenomenal job Jason!

[@OKMX5]

I hate body roll when driving fast so upgrading suspension and sway bars on my MX-5 was a must.

[@dmystermillion2351]

One thing you didn't point out is old cars. If you have an Na miata a suspension upgrade makes sense because of how far the technology has come since that car was made + how old the old suspension is getting.

[@cfg_form2122]

? 80s-90s car mechanicals aren't too far from modern...

[@dmystermillion2351]

@@cfg_form2122 but when suspension is that old it wont be as good as it was new

[@aygwm]

Yeah. But this is factory fresh vs upgrade. Old worn stuff isn’t an apples to apples comparison.

[@dmystermillion2351]

@@aygwm indeed it is. However in the title and video he doesn't explicitly mention that, he just talks about upgrading in general. My point is that going from old to new is a situation in which an upgrade is worth it

[@aygwm]

@@dmystermillion2351 I think that’s a flawed assumption. You can come up with whatever excuse to “upgrade” but Jason argues that new stock parts perform as well as aftermarket parts to not be worth the upgrade.

[@dddon513]

Upgraded Shocks are usually done as necessary with lowering springs, because the stocks will usually wear out much faster if lowered. And lowering is often done for cosmetic reasons.

[@scoob66]

those back roads are gorgeous man

[@bmuns6445]

2014 VW GLI (stage 1 tune) - use General Gmax tires, upgraded stock shocks with Bilstein B4 (10% stiffer), OEM mounts, getting 034 Motorsport sway bar. Probably the best I can do and maintain comfort.

[@liamlong7673]

Love the Miata video style.

[@donflores5227]

I am on my third Miata. My first one I was autocrossing. I changed the shocks to yellow Konis I changed the sway bars to minimize body roll. With the shocks set full stiff the car was good on the track and could be adjusted to soften the ride and make it a firm feeling street car. The second one was OE everything and it was a wonderful car to drive on the street. The one I have now is setup like the first one. I use it for track days. Once again I have a adjustable suspension and it is great on the street also. The one thing that remained the OE on the two non OE cars was the springs. I believe that made the car adjustable for both there uses

[@longlost2518]

I just got a 2004 g35 sedan. Not clapped or abused just high mileage. Need to replace the suspension. Should I just replace stock or get coil overs? I care about not ever bottoming out. This is just a drive maybe once a week type car for my kids as I use a company truck. I don't care about stance maybe slightly lower than stock. My question is would it be more money and more headache over time to go with coilovers over stock?

[@XenFPV]

But I want them low lows!

[@chaserfanboii6455]

yeah until you scrap the rims

[@cccraigslist]

@@chaserfanboii6455 "rims" 🤮

[@ty27tp]

@Jesse Link 4 doesn't drink Coke what

[@MyName-mi8qr]

I part agree with you on this video. Being the owner of a 2015 Mustang GT PP1, I can say the best mod you can do before suspension is chassis stiffening. I did the rear subframe braces and the front K-brace and didn't realize how stiff the factory PP1 suspension was or how good it was. I was half tempted to do a coilover kit, but removing the 5th spring, the chassis flex, really made a difference in overall performance. A floppy chassis is not fun by any many means. I think I spent about $500.00 for parts and install time and it was well worth it. I am probably still going to do a performance suspension kit, but it was nice to know that the chassis needed the work first before the suspension.

[@avrggamer69]

The 6 dislikes are the slammed bois

[@alexprag2866]

I am a slammed boi, my fender liners don’t look too good

[@chaserfanboii6455]

@@alexprag2866 just enjoy what you have dude🤙🔥🔥

[@morrari690]

the 3 dislikes are mistake, because in some countries thumbs down is good so... yeah everyone loved it ! :D

[@avrggamer69]

@@morrari690 😂😂

[@johnlloyd2390]

Lowering a car's ride height can aid handling in that it reduces the car's centre of gravity. The problem is, just "slamming" it does not take the suspension geometry and wheel motion as the suspension moves through its arks. It's at the extremes of suspension travel when the tyres are at their worst, in camber, toe, etc. Ideally, if you want to lower your car, move the suspension mounting points, while keeping them in the same relation in space.

[@Flies2FLL]

Good points Jason but I have modified the suspensions on two cars, and one made a HUGE difference and the other not so much. The first was an '85 VW Scirocco turbo [yes, they built a turbo version...] and I installed a 22mm Neuspeed front sway bar and a 28mm rear sway bar and these two parts TRANSFORMED this car! This didn't have an especially tight or hard suspension from the factory, the chassis was a German MK1 Volkswagen Golf four door that had its floor pan shipped to Karmann so that a Scirocco body could be installed, and the suspension was German VW GTI, but that was still kind of flaccid and heavily prone to oversteer. I installed the bars, and the mechanic I used to do the job recommended against the rear 28 mm bar because he thought the car would oversteer; This was not the case and it handled perfectly. The difference was night and day, the car was far more athletic after the change! The second car was a '92 Corrado SLC in which I changed to 0.5 inch lowering springs and the Neuspeed 25mm front/28 mm rear bars, and though it sat half an inch lower and looked much better, I couldn't tell much difference in the handling.

[@oseh438]

I recommend a book called “how to make your car handle” by Fred Puhn... it’s an old book but a lot of stuff in it is still very relevant and there is some great advice in there regarding suspension tuning, modification, design and more! Solid book

[@kevink2315]

I built my autocross (& track) car based on that book, and won my local class. Fred was a Mechanical Engineer and racer.

[@NewEra0G]

@@kevink2315 Damn that's wassup. I'm interested now!

[@bencovington6180]

I love that book

[@dustman96]

High Performance Handling is a top notch book for understanding suspension and handling.

[@tilepusher]

Your argument is very valid with new stock sports/sporty cars. The point you miss is that most people who modify their cars are driving older cars(with failing stock suspensions) or entry level/economy cars. This is where aftermarket suspensions turns peoples rides from just a means of transportation to something they enjoy driving. If you have ever driven a stock older Honda Civic vs the same Honda Civic with a good aftermarket suspension, they are both still very underpowered, but the aftermarket one handles like a race car, so much so that, testing will show a insane amount of improvement in all performance categories.

[@LazerLord10]

but.. . but... rear sway bar???? (my car just doesn't have one, lmao)

[@rotaxtwin]

Rear bar is a HUGE deal on a FWD car. Even just harder bushings than OEM is noticeable. If your car came with a sway bar in a higher / sport trim level get one from the wreckers.

[@0hjaa3.06]

@@rotaxtwin Or just buy a new one. More safe. less rust.

[@LazerLord10]

@@rotaxtwin Nope, all models just don't have a rear sway bar, it's actually kinda funny. But kits exists that are pretty cheap, and I'm thinking of doing this...

[@brianrichards782]

@@LazerLord10 what car is it

[@jpogigtxcr1778]

Probably a rear twist-beam suspension. The bendable beam acts as the swaybar to a degree

[@Aurora-sz1bc]

Also have a 2016 ND Miata Club w/ Brembo/BBS package just like yours, which came with a "jingly-jangly" Bilstein damper setup and soft sway bars. Swapped it out with a Flyin' Miata stage 2 suspension kit with better-balanced damping-profile Koni shocks, lowering springs, and stiffer sway bars (along with 15 mm spacers on all 4 wheels from Goodwin Racing). Now, it handles like a BRZ and looks amazing. The spacers are safe and don't suffer from the problems detailed in your video on spacers. Would do it again, no questions asked. There's a lot to be said for a suspension setup that isn't easily upset, yet still allows the driver to transfer weight with throttle and trail braking to control the vehicle dynamics for better turn in, drive out of corners, etc., and is also comfortable as a daily driver. This is how the car should've come from the factory. Absolutely worth it. I hear the 2019+ ND2 Club suspension was reworked to fix the issues with the ND1 setup... proof that the engineers who design cars don't always get it right the first time.

[@csbeverly1]

Me rocking adjustable coilovers with polly bushings "I'ma pretend I didn't see that"

[@ttiization]

Your car is needlessly harsh to drive and no one can change my mind.

[@csbeverly1]

@@ttiizationand you are welcome to any opinions you may conceive. I built the car for me, not you lol. In the same way that I prefer black and you may prefer yellow, attempting to change someone's mind on something so entirely pointless would be a waste of both of our energy. :)

[@actually5004]

Lets just hope you follow the 50k/1-year service interval on high load damper oil and check that poly regularly for cracking and lube.

[@BubbasGarage]

@@ttiization maybe to you, but he didn't build it for you so get off your high horse and allow people to do what they want to their stuff.

[@jorisr4644]

Great video Jason. I upgraded my suspension with OE equipment of the top end model of my car model. I did everything: shocks, springs, lateral links, subframe improvements. Even the same factory alignment. The car stayed comfortable and feels much more predictable. Tests by journalists show it to be faster without being less comfortable. What definitely helps me as a driver is the ‘point and shoot’ predictability of the ride without tricky stuff like snappy oversteer. I trusted the factory with all their testing more than an aftermarket set. I think I was right, but I would love to hear your opinion about upgrading to OE (top end models).

[@RyeonLok]

How about the strut bar that evens out lateral force during cornering? I guess strut bar is also very important to improve grip and chasis rigidity

[@LifebyDesign]

Definitely makes a difference in my supra

[@kooooons]

I remember a video by a german KZbinr at KW. Their Expert said professional drivers won't get faster laptimes from performance suspensions, but the cars become more predictable making it easier for amateurs to improve their laptimes and feeling for the car. Also modern high performance suspensions apparently are surprisingly comfortable - which checks out with the contents of this video.

[@kseries1981]

If you want a noticeable performance upgrade, just get some summer tires and call it a day.

[@nafnaf0]

That Miata would be an ideal candidate to experiment on. It starts soft and has many after-market options that are fairly reasonable.

[@jd__h]

This is super useful to know and yet I'd still buy coilovers again. The sporty, predictable feel and the look is worth the cost in my opinion.

[@sasha_popov]

Jason, I got your hoodie from this video, you were not kidding, it is in fact the most comfortable hoodie I ever owned and the best one for Miata rides.

[@stefanmajonez6571]

Nothing made my 15 year old car feel more sporty than replacing the front and back suspension with brand new OEM parts.

[@nielsonderbeke8507]

Stage 0 is generally very underestimated!

[@kylelangley8818]

Couldn’t agree more. Comfortable flat ride suspension = welcoming drive. Why spend cash to a tune a car that you hate driving because the stiff coil overs rattle your teeth? I’d rather have a softer dampening rate with short bump stops and glide over road imperfections. It’s also not safe when rebound is so uncontrolled the steering jumps away from you when accelerating. Shek from Fat Cat Motorsports goes into this best when he covers flat ride. This video is just the introduction.

[@plantedrabbit3]

I appreciate the thought put into this video and the actual performance aspects looked at with various suspension setups, however, im sure 95% of people who buy coil overs just want to lower their car haha

[@lukecameron1126]

One thing worth considering is that the test was on a modern 3 series (e92). I’d argue that the potential performance benefits for a 25+ year old e36 or any of the 80s & 90s jdm stuff that many people interested in this sort of info are likely to drive may well be significantly greater than 1%

[@aarons4205]

This will probably be buried in the comments, but Car Throttle did a series of videos where they modified a 3 series and tested track times. From what I remember, some of those suspension type upgrades didn't make much difference and they even had a difficult time matching their previous times in some cases.

[@daszieher]

The E46 330 diesel estate? I liked that series a lot.

[@Xander1Sheridan]

Yes, because it is a BMW. I don't know many people that spend that much on a luxury car and decide to mess with it unless they are going to track it. Modifying cars did not start with $50,000 + luxury vehicles.

[@aarons4205]

@@Xander1Sheridan if you watch the video, they say they spent £1,800. It sounds like you're saying a 15-20 year old BMW should have a suspension as good as new coilovers. I was just pointing out similar testing that people might find interesting if they liked this EE video.

[@Xander1Sheridan]

@@aarons4205 coilovers are not one thing. I would not expect a set of $1800 coilovers to do much at all unless they were designed by a specialist of the specific vehicle they were attached to. The only vehicles a set of coilovers like that might improve handling on is ones that started below $20,000. An actual set of coilovers a person that has a chance of winning anything with would start at $2500 to $3k at the absolute least, and then someone that knew what they were doing would have to spend time fine tuning them for their use. Most coilovers $2k and below are just for adjustments and looks and will have a hard time matching a good stock suspension, like what a BMW should come with. Odds are even people at the lower end of winning SCCA and the like spent $4k or more on suspension components.

[@aarons4205]

@@Xander1Sheridan obviously you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying and didn't watch the video... They spent £1,800 on the car. I'm not looking to have a debate with someone on KZbin especially when we aren't talking about the same thing. My whole point was if someone was interested in this testing that Jason mentioned, Car Throttle did some similar tests that I found interesting. No need to be confrontational when all I'm doing is providing additional information/entertainment for those interested. Enjoy!

[@hoodwinkiez]

I swapped out the springs in my ND and called it good. Gave me the look I wanted and took out a bit of that leaning. Cheap and easy.

[@F14Goose37]

😂 "So much downforce"

[@Seymour890]

with a duck bill spoiler....

[@thesunnynationg]

*shows miata in the background😂😂😂

[@takafumiarisawa70]

@@Seymour890 Ducktail spoiler* The Audi TT MK I coupè and roadster ver. got a recall because it was unstable at high speeds and the fix was an update to the ESP, stiffer rear springs and a tiny ducktail spoiler. Even in models that didn't get an updated ESP or springs the spoiler did help quite a bit.

[@noahman27]

Very interesting! I will say that on my old VW Rabbit, I put bilsteins on all four corners and boy that car was just so much fun to drive. It was like magnetized to the road. It gave the car a really fun, zippy, sporty personality that it did not have with the normal struts/shocks.

[@fortitudevalance8424]

It’s not often worth it. I fitted A Bilstein suspension on a Volvo 850R and it didn’t suit the car. The ride quality felt like it’s was riding on boulders. Edit: best to get a car that has been designed for on the ground up with the correct settings.

[@PEthePreacher]

Great video Jason! Suspension has been a matter of many discussions and I think you nailed it.