Enlightenment Now: The Future of Progress with Steven Pinker

[@johnhunter8896]

Dr Pinker is a genius and deserve a Noble prize at least for his academic specializations in visual cognition and developmental linguistics.

[@TheMarinoborrasca]

it's a joke right?

[@MasterKey_44]

Amazing, how great our lives have gotten.

[@squamish4244]

There's a lot of criticism of Pinker in the comments without much evidence to back it up. Certainly nothing close to what he presents.

[@jrashaadrichardson]

His critics are mostly reactionaries. Progress is the gadfly of all reactionaries, who see the upward curve of social and technological progress as a threat to their cherished institutions.

[@sala320]

Imagine being so closed minded with your head in the sand your standard for rebuttal is a comment to rival a fucking presentation the comment is made about. Clown ass neoliberals lol

[@netizencapet]

Dear Mr. Pinker, things you've said over the years have both allied and alienated me. However, I believe that the general scope of your argument is correct and that we must stick to the inner core of the Enlightenment program. We're too far along in the progress game and the only way we'll get out of it is when the whole industrial machine collapses across the world. While that very well may and likely WILL happen, what we must aim for is that the tools and MENTALITIES we leave behind to the coming chaos is the core of the enlightenment project: 1. Reason and empirical science before dogmas and holy books as the arbiter of what exists and how the world works, at least in the nuts and bolts way. 2. Cooperation and voluntary human participation as the basis for political legitimacy, i.e., the consent of the governed. We will never get it right but the more we keep at these basics, the better our bet will be. It is really worth looking deeply at the various kinds of Enlightenment that have moved throughout the waves of recorded history, in the West and the East. The Crusades in the Middle Ages and the Wars of Religion in the late Renaissance and Baroque periods are really not where we want to remain. Let's also recall that a lot of the industrialized warfare has been driven by Anti-enlightment demagogues and political apparati... though not all of it: that should be a check on our pride, in whatever direction.

[@voidofmisery4810]

I like this view of progress. Something people are missing when criticizing Steven Pinker is that the ideas and methods of getting there are open, but most importantly they all can fluctuate and have a give and take method. People are commenting and seemingly ignoring ALL of his elements to this argument

[@voidofmisery4810]

faultroy I didn’t say anyone is the problem. I am only addressing that I notice people that are arguing against Steven Pinker aren’t providing good arguments. I can see u think that I think people’s experience isn’t as good as Steven Pinkers and that simply isn’t true. I love good arguments, but I’m sure you can agree that it can be annoying to find people arguing without acknowledging the opposite side’s view point. Cherry picking statements is common. Hope u have a good day I look forward to your viewpoint

[@voidofmisery4810]

@faultroy I like your reply, and if you have time you can respond to this thought. I think that people feel the need to know everything and uphold their ego, when frankly it's ok and scientifically understood that there are subjects we may need more research in, which goes with what you said about not having energy to research in depth and using very short logical critical thinking. Personally when I don't understand something in depth I just wait until I gain more knowledge to argue. Do you have anything to add to that?

[@voidofmisery4810]

faultroy wow bravo! I completely agree. I really like your perspective, and I will adopt it into my thinking (which I think I mostly already have). If I may, I’d like to say when I made my original comment, it can be posted on any video, because it largely expresses the desire to see better arguments. Furthermore, I’d like to say I view statistics the same as you have pointed out. No matter the holder of statistics, I look for the study, who did it, how it was done etc. I think statistics are thrown in our face everyday with bias, disregard, intent for selfish desires, and I like that you brought up the literature because one of the most important fundamental ideas I had when approaching literature when I was young was to be as careful as possible as to understand the full story, and to not misinterpret based off of current thinking.

[@voidofmisery4810]

faultroy I didn’t really go in depth on your comments or points that you made because I largely agree with them especially with the theories of science and evolution and your other point on Harvard

[@smogunner]

@@voidofmisery4810 People's own experiences are not relevant. Data is.

[@ChuckSilva]

Pure brilliance! Indeed the ultimate positive affirmation. ❤️ we humans are amazing...

[@standance9044]

Lovely man.

[@seanwebb605]

People in the comments section are embarrassing themselves.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

Yes you are.

[@seanwebb605]

@@paulaustinmurphy Is that your best?

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@seanwebb605 Not really. How about this?- Stop being so pompous and self-important.... Let me know if you want some more.

[@seanwebb605]

@@paulaustinmurphy Weak tea.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@seanwebb605 Strong coffee.

[@mattwehrle2692]

You sent an angry, mean and nasty response to someone that criticised your writing.

[@d.Cog420]

Need to look at the cost of living like this though, hope he mentions this in a future book. It's all a bit rose tinted atm. Good to hear a positive view though :) Need to take what we've learned from all spheres I think and head to ways that work for the whole of it not just us. Enlightenment is at the end of its era, there's been good and bad, next philosophies will perhaps shift away from the anthropocentric, away from the mind/us as god, to us as an integral part. Hopefully. Fill it all back up again, us too.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

Why "rose tinted"? Pinker cites evidence and arguments for all his claims. So, in order for your claim to have any substance, you'd need to tackle his detail - which you haven't done.

[@d.Cog420]

@@paulaustinmurphy don't need to tackle anything, they are my thoughts. What did you think of the other thoughts in my comment. And remember we're all in this together so a positive or constructive reply would be awesome if that works for you..

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@d.Cog420 "You need to tackle" is a phrase. I'm not going to put a gun to your head or anything.... "The cost of living" for you? For which group? For which country? During which time period? And I suspect that Pinker HAS covered the cost of living... Unless your point is that he has ignored some subjects - which is, by definition, true. I'm not sure if I understand the rest of your comment.

[@d.Cog420]

@@paulaustinmurphy the cost of living for the planet and all on it now and in the future. Rose tinted in that he discusses positive aspects of progress and indeed aligns his idea of progress based solely on these. Naive perhaps more than rose tinted. Why does he not discuss increasing fiscal inequality? Increasing use of drugs for mental health and depression? Isolation of neighborhoods from each other, neighbours from each other? Drove down a street I used to live in where all the kids played together outdoors in summer, now the housing density has doubled and every property has a large fence or wall around it and inside kids are on devices. Yes we can tweet and courier goods but contact and physical learning is being eroded at an alarming rate. How will that affect future issues if we need to come together to solve basic problems like food and water shortages which appear to be becoming ever more real? Great that we all live till we're 80/90/100 but what about population stresses on the environment and ourselves? What about the skills to make or fix things being lost at an alarming rate as people move more and more into service industries and manufacturing is taken over by engineers, robotics manufacturers and computer programmers? He talks about a world without nuclear weapons then goes on to talk about small nuclear reactors as a future energy source. My understanding is they are very hard to pass government regulation because they're only a small step from nuclear weapons proliferation (wikipedia article on salt nuclear reactors). Naive in that there could be a perfect storm brewing and that we're now in the end of the golden weather era, or perhaps the end of a stage of evolution? Maybe not, no one knows but we're still chopping down trees and converting those living ecosystems to near dead monocultures, dumping diesel in the ocean from 20,000 ships a day or whatever it is, planes, cars... Interesting he talks about our ability to curtail pandemics with our present knowledge (April 2109), who knows where the present pandemic is going. Look I could go on for ever but in short I think we have to drop the human as god hubris that he wreaks of. Yes he's very clever and speaks so well and takes so much into account and has done ever such a lot of research but dude, you're tripping if you think everything is coming up roses. Loved the line yes we have to take climate change seriously and do something about it. Off you go then, solve that problem with reasoning and humanism and whatever the third thing was. What if they got us here? What if our brain is the problem we can't control? We're so in love with it we don't even question it, the humanist's god. Maybe we need a new belief system. From totems, to polytheism to monotheism to brain....where next? Maybe the next phase of our evolution is the reckoning, the how the flying fuck are we going to live with what we have and ourselves, maybe the growing up period even. Maybe we can't have everything we want mummy. Maybe the economic based phase of our journey has run it's course, leaving a trail of inequality and planetary destruction. I just think these people need to get off their comfy chairs and get out in the world where most people live, do sociological work with regular families facing ever increasing debt stress, identity stress, a sense they are being left behind and there isn't shit they can do about it. Why doesn't he look at debt levels? Sorry Paul Austin Murphy, bit of a rant there and if I could be arsed I'd re-read this and put it into something coherent and reasoned with lots of examples and even a bibliography but I suspect you don't care and neither you nor I are going to make a fat lot of difference and I have to make the family breakfast now. We need to teach the kids to be ready for a range of very dramatic possibilities. No one is doing that. Now eggs.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@d.Cog420 "the cost of living for the planet and all on it now and in the future." That's not what "cost of living" means. Do you mean the cost for the planet in terms of actions and policies? Of course you can use terms how you like. It sounds like you want things to be bad. That is, you believe that things are bad and seek out the evidence which backs up what you already believe. You're almost luxuriating in it - perhaps for political and/or psychological reasons. It's like political End Times rhetoric... Pinker DOES cover inequality and makes the true and simple point that it will always exist in the sense that even when the poor get better off, if the rich still get better off too, then there will still be inequality. As it is, the poor in the West - and elsewhere - have got better off decade after decade after decade. But stating facts won't fire radicals or bring about revolution. So inequality is stressed instead. So even though the poor in the West are much better off than they were even only a fee decades ago, the rich are still richer than the poor are. That's they are called "rich". Thus inequality still exists. Not only will there never be complete financial equality - people shouldn't even want that. In order to bring such a thing about, you would need a totalitarian regime that imposed absolute equality on everyone. But of cause that state and its functionaries would still be better off than most people. As for drugs and neighbourhoods - it's just so vague and rhetorical. Drugs wise - things were far worse in the 1990s in the US, etc. And what does "Isolation of neighborhoods from each other" even mean? Compared to when people from one town never came across people from another town - let alone from another country? There is no increased levels of depression. There is increased recognition of depression. Thus more people self-diagnose and more doctors diagnose. And what is classed as "depression" today wasn't classed as depression a few decades ago. The other thing is that Pinker does NOT ignore all the negatives of contemporary society. He simply says that in terms of lifespans, levels of income, health, violence, etc. things have got better. And even most of the things you believe have got worse... haven't. You're catastrophising just seems like emotional rhetoric. If you're entirely driven by how you feel, then no wonder you have a problem with Pinker. He uses data and arguments - you use rhetoric and emotion. Nothing he could say would satisfy your emotions and your extremely subjective take on things. You really ought to do some research and not base everything on how you feel and your gut reactions.... Sorry, your reply reads like a stream-of-consciousness rant from someone who's a little unstable- as you admit yourself. You string different stuff together without rhyme or reason. So I doubt that anything I, Pinker, or anyone else say will impact on your emotions or mental state. Clearly, your emotions are running the show.

[@temujinadonijah6365]

Exponential growth and progress are hindered and purposely stunted by select groups choosing to assimilate amongst their own and favoured subgroups

[@sadhanaidu5918]

Don't scoff at this...I translate progress as Convenience, Dependence and Illusion addiction.

[@MW-bm2fg]

The jolly heretic has an enlightening review of pinkers work.

[@jmarty1000]

These comments: There's nothing worse than a frothing Chomskyite to ruin your whole day.

[@dukedematteo1995]

You said it.....Its unhealthy to be that cynical.

[@thijsjong]

Turkey democratic today lol.

[@Kenbomp]

Interesting but fukashima is more than an exaggeration news story. Don't forget the mass worker bees. 1000 high iq people society can't jumpstart a society by themselves.

[@kcsunshine4008]

I think Dr Pinker is a very well spoken, coherent speaker and thinker ( but accessible to all)and it would be easy to buy into all his rhetoric but I think I’ll keep digging and reading and thinking - some of his thoughts and comments seem deeply researched but other ideas ( when he leaves the field of psychology, for example) are sweeping, generic and his own biases creep in..... makes me aware that while I can take his research on board I should do so with a pinch of salty reservation.......

[@paulaustinmurphy]

Can you give any examples of Pinker's "rhetoric"?

[@peterdeutsch6378]

The narrative of progress a statistically increasing average of 'good' things is misleading and not meaningful in the context of humans as a global species. If we are causing a mass extinction which might include ourselves so that a minority of individuals can have short term 'progress' I would say that is more like the progression of something negative like a disease makes progress. I believe progress should be defined by the elevation of the human mind such that we naturally stop doing the most self defeating and destructive things. I have seen no evidence of that on a large scale, there are i believe some pockets of progress.

[@jrashaadrichardson]

Holy crap...you sound like Keates and all those other Romantic poets remonstrating against the encroachments of industrialization.

[@spec24]

Then you are blind beyond belief.

[@peterdeutsch6378]

@@spec24 And I suppose you can see so very well.It must be a great comfort.

[@L4SERB0Y]

You seem to be moving the goalposts in order to avoid saying 'thanks enlightenment values'. You seem to equate human progress to a disease, which sounds sociopathic. You should be aware that wealthier nations are better able to protect the environment because environmentalism comes with a cost.

[@peterdeutsch6378]

@@L4SERB0Y thank you enlightenment values! .. Thank you laserboy! My gratitude overflowith.

[@treplan01]

The temperature is correlate with sun activity , please stop play such stupidity .

[@thomasfholland]

UCLA - you screwed up on this one.

[@jrashaadrichardson]

thomasfholland How so?