Entire Bomber Squadron Slaughtered in 20 Minutes?

[@TJ3]

Join Letters From War and read Captain Jaques' letter today! tj3history.shop/products/lfw

[@schoolofrockcary6625]

My grandfather served in this unit. His aircraft was shot down on a mission over Kiel. The surviving airmen of the 492nd used to get together each year (I believe they've all passed away now?) An AMAZING group of men

[@kimomgaming5778]

being a gunner is nothing easy especially trying to get ot a damaged airplane

[@rickcentore2801]

You grandfather was either on the Munson or Abernethy crew. The Kiel mission number was 45 and was flown on July, 6, 1944. If you have not already done so, check out the group's website. It's a wealth of information.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Grampa Roy was there, mostly B 17's OG! EWO? "I think". Pa pa Paul was Battle of the Atlantinc Cat's, or PBY's, EWO most likely, then NASA RIP! Greatest! I Miss You! ya' All YA"LL!!

[@rheinmoses29]

How many helpless civilians did he kill? How many children?

[@davefellhoelter1343]

@@rheinmoses29 I think all these guys BOMBED Germans! I had a few who Bombed Japs too, one fought and flew for all the Allys' And the french? I never got to know an Enemy pilot who bombed the "Helpless" ? I did have abuddie land a battle damaged P38 on what he thought was friendly air strip to finf out he landed in the dark, battle damaged and lost Smack Dab in the Middle of a Bedouin tent camp. That was a bad deal for all, and the "Fog of WAR!".

[@almartin4]

That sounds very similar to our family history: My father, John Allan Martin, enlisted in the Army Air Corps (1942), age 18, and served as a gunner and radio operator on B-17s and B-24s. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force in England and flew 35 combat missions over Europe. Including one shown as "SECRET" on his papers. According to him, later while watching “12 O’clock High” on TV, he thought that it was very well done and he liked the show. He did say that instead of the large letter “A” in the show their planes carried a large letter “P” there. He was in the 387th Bombardment Squadron of 487th Bombardment Group. The records for many crew members were lost during a fire at Fort Benjamin Harrison. His brother, age 20, was a Navy aviator flying in the Pacific area: his plane was shot down . The bad news was wired to the family, who were surprised three months later when he walked in the front door in his Navy uniform. My father had left the service at the end of the war and worked as a TV/Radio engineer. He was called back to duty for the Korean conflict but didn’t have to deploy; and stayed with the new US Air Force. He retired in 1968 after 26 years of active duty and died in 1976. His brother also passed in 2005. Both brothers are buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Regards

[@johnsondylan7515]

Whoa!! My Grandfather was Andrew Jackson he was the bombardier on Bo II !! He was a POW in a Germany. My dad was shocked when he found this video, then he showed it to me. So much detail in this video.

[@rafalganowicz1939]

It is really great to have an actual person narrating instead of some fake AI voice. Thanks TJ3!!

[@northwestprof60]

you better watch more closely......

[@nledaig]

Hmm. He says "reik" instead of "reich". There's a fair amount of AI footage. That bores me.

[@LeonFelixRusso]

The 'character' is AI. Annoying.

[@phxJohn2010]

​@LeonFelixRusso it's not. That's really him. He just has a lot of post effects processing on in this video for some reason

[@phxJohn2010]

I actually thought it was an AI the first video I saw of his because of the weird way he overemphasized "ReiK". I lived in Germany for a few years and even they didn't say that aggressively. But, I've been a fan for a while now and I realize it's just a quirk.

[@lil2nerdy645]

Once again awesome content TJ and this is probably my first time seeing depictions of the ME 410 outside of generic War Thunder vids. Also belated RIP to Bud Anderson. Godspeed Old Crow 🫡

[@rickcentore2801]

This was an outstanding depiction of the Bern-berg mission. My father was a flight engineer in the 492nd BG. On June 20th, 1944 mission to Politz, the 856th Bomb Squadron put up 12 aircraft. One turned around with engine problems. All the other eleven were shot down. (One made it to Sweden.) They were taken out by ME-410s. The 492nd was the only group to be disbanded due to excessive losses. In 66 missions they lost 55 Liberators. Of those, 34 were lost on just three of those missions. (Brunswick 8, Politz 14, Bernberg 12) Thank you for telling their story.

[@larrycook8540]

I know war is hell, but why were there not escorts. Was this past the range of the P-51s?

[@lynnecentore1194]

@@larrycook8540 Fighter escorts did not follow the same bombers for the entire mission. It was done in a series of relays. Timing was critical. In the case of the Politz mission, one P-51 unit had just left due to low fuel and the replacement unit was ten minutes late in taking over. The ME-410s attacked in those ten minutes.

[@Mister8224]

My fathers 15th & last mission in his B24 was Munich on 7/11/44, 4 days later, from Wendling UK. As was common with B24 Missions, escort support never showed & losses were heavy. Schrapnel took out one of dad's port engines over the target, & they limped to a Swiss airstrip on Austrian border, managed to avoid AA fire from Germans in Austria & landed. Sat out remainder of war in Swiss custody. Had to be terrifying experience!

[@lynnecentore1194]

@@Mister8224 I would have liked to had a chance to speak to you father. I have been fascinated with World War all my life and guys like our Dads were my heroes. There have been a couple of books written about the men that were interned in Switzerland. Much different than the crews that made it to Sweden.

[@Mister8224]

​@@lynnecentore1194My comments cancelled. Get back to me.

[@williamallen63]

Col Jaques was at Barth Germany in the same Stalag Luft I my Uncle Gordon was. HEwas shot down on 24 Feb 44 on a mission to Gotha. All three ships in his block were shot down. He was the CP in Schlossberg crew and all survived. He was captured by farmers and threaten with hanging in Erfurt GE but saved by the local police. He was beaten at Frankfurt am main on his way to Barth. The stalag was liberated on 15 Apr 45 by the Russians. The Battle of Gotha was featured in a couple of 8th AFs films and the 392nd was awarded the Distinguished Unit Citation. I always love your content. I'm a retired USAF Historian, both enlisted and civilian, and have seen volumes of the documents you feature when I worked and the USAF Historical Reasearch Agency. My job was to write those kind of unit histories for current wings and other units.

[@aidenbrennan7871]

The 859th were based at North Pickenham in Norfolk, the airfield is 1 mile from my house. It has had a turkey farm there for many years and in recent years wind turbines have been installed, these turbines are visible from my back garden. To watch these huge turbines gently turning on what was once a bomber base, almost seems like a silent tribute to those who flew from there.

[@LMyrski]

The German troops or perhaps novice home guard may have mistook the crews for paratroops. It was generally not their practice to shoot aircrew in parachutes, and they were very much appalled at the idea. If you read Scharff's The Interrogator, a German ace, Josef "Pips" Priller, approached Scharff to find out whether some of his men had been intentionally shot in their parachutes. Scharff, known for his effective use of conversational interrogation, came away thinking the Americans could never be so underhanded. As it turned out, Scharff admitted he was wrong. Scharff was friends with many US fighter pilots post war and they told him they received those orders but few followed them. One of which appears to be a certain American ace who there are videos about where he claims he killed a German pilot who had done it. He apparently made the story up, according to his squadron mates, but everyone hears it on youtube, so it must be true. As for beatings, British civilians and home guard were also guilty of this at times, even in London, and sometimes with deadly results. One of the General Erich Manstein's relatives was a flier murdered by Belgian civilians in 1940. I'm not excusing, just saying there were people guilty of this on both sides.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Just because everyone hears something does make it true.

[@fluffyusa]

'people guilty of this on both sides' so very true. War is Hell. I served from 92'-97' in the US Army as a 95B and was deployed to Normandy France to pull 3 weeks security detail during the 50th Anniversary of the Normandy Invasion back in 94'. My unit at the time, we were stationed out of Fürth/Nuremberg Germany, 218th MP Co.

[@chrisw8417]

Have you heard of the Kassel mission? It was the worst AF loss of a group in one mission just a couple of months after this. Also a B-24 group. Good job with this story and great visuals.

[@nickmitsialis]

Yeah, didn't the Group run afoul of an attack by multiple sturmgruppen (IV/JG3, II/JG4, and perhaps II/JG300)?

[@chrisw8417]

@@nickmitsialis yes the group was attacked by 100-150 EA. JG 300 I, Sturmgruppe II, JG 4 Sturmgruppe II and JG 3 IV Sturmgruppe. There might have been others but these were the ones that had KIAs. All happened in about 5 minutes.

[@papalegba6796]

B24 was a very vulnerable design structurally. Should not have been approved for daylight raids. British Halifax bomber another Deathtrap, totally inadequate. Heavy bombers were very new technology, many mistakes were made in their introduction, arguably all 4 engine bombers were flawed by design.

[@marklongway1906]

Enjoy you work. I have been watching your videos for a few years now. Unfortunately I knew a bit about this mission from family history. My grandmother’s first husband was a member of “I’ll Be Around “. He was one of the crew that didn’t make it off the plane as it went down. Thanks for telling part of their story.

[@TJ3]

Historical notes: First off - very few of these aircraft have surviving photos. The only one with photos of the nose art I believe Super Wolf. Georgette, I'll be Around, BO II, and Oonie Doonie had only names. So I took the liberty to recreate their nose art. Then - Steneman and Jack's crews had no photos, nor names. Thanks everyone!

[@nomadpi1]

You contaminatde the source. That's arrogant and unprofessional behavior.

[@TJ3]

@@nomadpi1 What are you talking about?

[@artawhirler]

Thanks for telling us!

[@LowBrandon]

​​@@nomadpi1shut up dude you don't know how hard TJ3 tried to find such information and you are a history hater so go womp womp.

[@LowBrandon]

​@@TJ3don't feel bad there a number of people that likes to assault or insult history channels and @nomadpi1 is one of them so ignore his insults.

[@raymondyee2008]

That’s one story of the B-24s that I didn’t know of.

[@markpaul-ym5wg]

A lot of crews could not get out because of the G force,which kept them pinned in the aircraft while it was spinning to the earth.

[@The1trueJester]

An awesome TJ3 video to make today great! Thanks for the great content and all the hard work to bring it to us with such high quality. Stay awesome TJ

[@talcoge67]

My dad was a Waister Gunner for the 392 Bomber Group, they too were B24’s. He was fortunate to have come in February 1945, supported by the Mustangs. I was able to read all of his post reports from each mission, It was still dangerous from flak.

[@scottessery100]

The number of bomber crews lost in ww2 is awful Roughly between 1943 and 1945 the USAAF lost 8,000 heavy bombers-each of which typically carried ten crewmen-in combat during the strategic bombing campaign over Europe.

[@doomhippie6673]

About 500 000 civilians were killed in the bombing.

[@Jagshemasher]

@@doomhippie6673 - yep - shit happens when people don't oppose an evil regime. Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind. Give me a second while I shed a tear - probably about as long as the Germans gave to the Polish, Czecks and others that they rode roughshod over - okay second over.

[@DL-hh1cq]

So what.

[@jeffreyhagelin3672]

​@@DL-hh1cqGet lost.

[@PAS_2020]

@@doomhippie6673 the civilians should’ve voted differently. They get another chance in 2024!🤣🤣🤣

[@myronfrobisher]

My father was born in Anhalt Bernburg ( spelled with a U) in 1923. He joined the Luftwaffe and flew the JU-87 Stuka in Russia - when he went on leave he would fly a Stuka from his squadron that was in need of an overhaul back to his hometown where there was a Junkers plant - the plant that was to be bombed in your video. BTW Bernburg is pronounced Bearn - burg.

[@billyray8062]

TJ3 you do an outstanding job on your videos!!

[@rob7633]

It's great that you can find this, When I try to find my dad records when he faught in chosen korea, they tell me records were lost in the fire. I'm seeing alot of people saying the same thing.

[@jllucci]

Yes it true in '73. If you know your dad's unit it might be possible roughly rebuild where he was through mentions in the company records. Doing so can and will get expensive.

[@carycoller3140]

The more I listen to these stories the more depressed and angry I become at the fact that the people who made the decisions, like sending these men on a trip without escort, never suffered any consequences for their f-cked up decisions.

[@papalegba6796]

My family has a ton of connections to WW2 RAF bomber command, apparently when the Americans first turned up their crews were totally misinformed as to what they were up against, as well as the quality of their equipment. Unescorted daylight bombing was disastrous when we tried it, but the American pilots had been convinced their planes, guns & bomb sights were so superior to ours it would be easy. We were just glad to have the support cos we were in a losing battle at the time & desperate, but our more experienced pilots knew they were in for a hard wake up call.

[@None-zc5vg]

B24s were death-traps , carrying fuel in the centre-fuselage that would incinerate most of the plane's crew in seconds if ignited

[@isasaleh1508]

They gambled with the lives of young men at there prime most likely children of the commons. Unfortunately it's still happening to from Afghanistan to Ukrain.

[@aniinnrchoque1861]

The same men also didn't face consequences for ordering bombing runs on almost purely civilian targets and causing unnecessary evil.

[@papalegba6796]

@@aniinnrchoque1861 yes. They didn't call him Butcher Harris for nothing.

[@nomadpi1]

Re: "enemy planes shot down...' "Kill' claims were vastly over stated by returning Allied bomber crews. The only way to determine "kill" claims is to search German records to see what type, how many, place and date to be correct in reading Allied AARs kill-claims. My father was a crew chief on a B-24 called "Smooth Sue,"

[@patm111]

Agreed. I believe a good example is the raid on Schweinfurt, where I believe the overclaiming was something like 15 or 20 to 1. It's somewhat understandable of how this could happen given the chaos of aerial combat that existed with likely numerous machine guns from the same and adjacent planes firing at the same fighter plane. However, I'm sure it wasn't nearly as easy to hit an incoming fighter coming in at several hundred miles per hour as it is portrayed in movies, especially head on when the closing speed is even higher.

[@stewartmillen7708]

No. German records are also inaccurate. The Germans only admitted to a fighter loss in Reich defense only if its pilot was killed (from postwar interviews with Luftwaffe officers done by the Americans). Those officers also said that American estimates of German fighters shot down by bomber gunners (the adjusted claims, not the raw) were very close to actual losses. So...4 to 6 actual losses for 10-15 claimed is about right. How the Luftwaffe hid their losses that didn't result in a pilot death was was likely classifying it as a 'noncombat' loss. Almost half of Luftwaffe fighter losses were supposedly due noncombat causes, which should raise eyebrows (yes, air forces do lose planes due to noncombat reasons, but by comparison the 8th lost 12% of its heavy bombers that way, not almost half). Interestingly enough, some scholars say the US air force pulled the same paperwork trick in Korea, and that the exchange ratio between F-86s and MiG-15s was far closer to 1:1 instead of the 8:1 or 10:1 claimed.

[@ramonzzzz]

@@stewartmillen7708 Nothing I have read, and I have read a great deal on the topic of aerial combat, supports in the slightest the claim you have made. I will recommend a few authors whose works you should read if you want to learn how it really was: Donald Caldwell, Christopher Shores, Christer Bergstrom, Martin Middlebrook, Alfred Price, Brian Cull, Norman Franks. There are other good authors whom I have not mentioned. In addition, Michael Claringbould does an outstanding job in writing about certain phases of the Pacific war. If those interviews with German officers did actually take place, it would appear that they simply told the Americans some untruths that they assumed would please them. What you have claimed does apply somewhat to German records during WW 1. The Germans appear to have recorded only pilot casualties (killed, wounded and missing, some of whom became PoWs). Consequently, if a pilot survived a shoot-down unhurt or uncaptured, it seems that the aircraft loss was not mentioned.

[@stewartmillen7708]

@@ramonzzzz It's in "A History of the 8th USAAF Fighter Command" by Lt. Col. Waldo Meimrick (? hard to make out the name on the title page) who was an intelligence officer. The original document number was RS-12039 from a formerly classified USAAF document (which is why I have some problems with the print). It has a discussion on bomber kill claims, the checks that were done both within and between bomber wings and groups, and the acknowledgement of overclaims. However it did contain the verbiage of interviews with GAF officials who said that the actual loss was close to US intelligence assessments and that the reason for the discrepancy was that "in the defense of the Reich a loss was only admitted if the pilot was killed." Moreover, since I discovered this I have noted in separate sources that the Luftwaffe both lost 335 fighters in Reich defense in July 1943, as well as 335 pilots! (The same number!) So this rings very true. Why would you believe Luftwaffe sources, given that the Germans pretty much fudged their books on just about everything? We can prove this with German tank kill claims, tank losses, and manpower losses--the numbers are garbage. For an instance I like to cite, German paperwork claims that only 7 King Tiger tanks were lost in the West from July to October 1944. The actual number of 52. We know this as we know the location, cause of loss, and serial number of quite literally every King Tiger lost in the West. In many cases we have photographs of them. The easiest way to cover up Luftwaffe losses would have been to reclassify combat losses as non-combat losses. This also would explain the extraordinary high rate of non-combat loss in Luftwaffe fighter wings while making Luftwaffe losses more in-line with US intelligence estimates. Like I said, recent scholarship on the Korean War now suggests the USAF did the same thing to cover up its F-86 losses in MIG-15 dogfights to boost the kill ratio to 8:1, while the true kill ratio was probably less than 2:1. As for your author list, they may be good authors, but too-many good authors have used German sources to as evidence when they shouldn't have. In part, that's probably because Luftwaffe sources became available before the USAAF declassifed its documents. However, even before that, there was data contradicting Luftwaffe loss data from other sources., which was usually ignored. Take the October 1942 Lillle Raid. In a "ahah"" moment authors in the 1960s seized on Luftwaffe records showing that "only 2 German fighters were lost, and 1 damaged" in attacks that shot down 6 B-17s in that raid, and B-17 bomber gunner kill claims were dismissed with a wave of the hand. However, it's worth noting that this was before Germans had invented the head-on attack, and most of these attacks were from the tail, the most dangerous direction to attack a B-17 formation. In addition, the British were also monitoring radio communications from that battle, and the British noted at least on eight distinct separate occasions Luffwaffe pilots radioed their base that they were bailing out of their fighter. So the British assessment of Luftwaffe losses that day was "at least 8, and probably double that". Finally, the low damage figure cited (I mean, ONE??) should raise eyebrows. What, were Luftwaffe fighter pilots so skittish that they couldn't shoot down planes from the easiest approach (the tail) even when they weren't being hit? Usually also you'd think that the damaged planes would outnumber the shot-down planes by a wide margin. So there were reasons even before to question the German data.

[@ramonzzzz]

@@stewartmillen7708 I remain completely unconvinced that the Germans deliberately falsified their loss records. I would ask anyone who believes that the Germans did in fact do so to explain what they could possibly have gained by this. Certainly there are errors and omissions, but nothing on a scale to make me believe that it was part of some sort of Wehrmacht-wide plot to "fudge" the books. You mentioned earlier, an interrogation of officers who said that only losses in which pilots were killed were actually recorded as combat losses. Later, I'll disprove that. I too found some comments from an interview with a Luftwaffe officer conducted by two American officers, one of whom was renowned 56th FG ace, David Schilling. This German also came up with some nonsense, either to tell them something that would satisfy them, or just to have a private laugh at their gullibility. He told them that Luftwaffe pilots were instructed to land, after a Reich defense mission, at airfields other than their own, so that they wouldn't be able to see how heavy their own losses had been. In addition, airfield clerical staff were instructed to remove the names of the pilots from the mission roster after takeoff so that it would be unclear as to which ones were MIA from the mission. Even a child should be able to understand how foolish one would have to be to accept these statements as anything other than rubbish. Examples of Luftwaffe records of fighter losses chosen at random from various theaters and years. 1. N Africa, November 22, 1941 Unit: JG 27 All aircraft involved are Bf 109 F-4 trop 1. WNr 8479 shot down; Obfhr Josef Weskott bailed out MIA (became PoW) 2. WNr 8494 crash-landed; Fw Gunther Hillert MIA (became PoW) 3. WNr 8444 shot down Bir Hacheim; Lt. Kurt Scheppa WIA, PoW died in bombing attack on Bir Hacheim hospital the next day (would have been recorded as MIA by Germans). 4. WNr 8466 shot down, crashlanded Bir el Gubi; Oblt Ernst Dullberg WIA 5. WNr 8461 shot down Bir el Gubi; Uffz Horst Reuter safe 6. WNr 8459 shot down Bir el Gubi; Uffz Karl-Heinz Panier safe 2. N Germany, July 25, 1943 Defending against 8th AF raid on Hamburg all aircraft involved are Bf 109 Gs, some the G-1 variant, and some the G-6 1. III/JG 1 WNr 207 Major K-H Leesman KIA shot down by B-17 2. II/JG 11 WNr 20026 Lt. W Gloerfeld WIA collided with B-17 3. II/JG 11 WNr 14147 Lt. E Kampf WIA shot down by B-17 4. II/JG 11 WNr 14125 Uffz W. Riedmann WIA shot down by B-17 5. III/JG 26 WNr 16447 pilot not named, as he was unwounded crash-landed after combat Aircraft that were just damaged were not listed by the source. US gunners claimed 38-6-27. No US fighters were present. 3. Central Germany, May 28, 1944 Defending against 8th AF raids against various targets Numerous units were involved. I'll present the losses of one of them, JG 3, all pilots flying Bf 109 G-6s 1. 2./JG 3 WNr 440703 KIA Uffz Hans Herdy Crash near Dreileben 2. 2./JG 3 WNr unknown safe Uffz Horst Petzschler Bailed out near Dreileben 3. 2./JG 3 WNr 110231 WIA Gefr Karl Tiepner Bailed out near Gommern 4. 3./JG 3 WNr 410859 WIA Ofhnr Ernst-Eduard Witt Bailed out south of Magdeburg 5. 3./JG 3 WNr 440541 WIA Fw Kurt Sandweg Bailed out near Calbe 6. 5./JG 3 WNr 412422 WIA Uffz Rudolf Schneider Bailed out near Halberstadt 7. 7./JG 3 WNr 410452 KIA Uffz Georg Spittler Crash near Papenrode 8. 8./JG 3 WNr 163753 WIA Ofw Wilhelm Molitor Destroyed in belly-landing at Werferlingen 9. 9./JG 3 WNr 20090 WIA Hans Grunendahl Bailed out near Salzwedel Aircraft that were just damaged were not listed. There were three such aircraft. That's enough for now (possibly more later, as I particularly want to address your 335 KIA in 335 recorded losses claim) . You should be able to come to the proper conclusion after having read this.

[@JaredScaleModelling]

It's quite insane on how much human lives were taken away in the matter of minutes

[@christosvoskresye]

And it's ironic, given the fact that they were trying to air-drop food and medicine.

[@ronpartainxrp]

@@christosvoskresye hahahaha touché… love the dripping sarcasm! Delicious.

[@norberthofer5830]

There are no winners in war.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Check out the first day of The Battle of The Somme😱

[@Grant80]

@@guaporeturns9472that’s the poms for you thry ordered thousands to their deaths

[@JUNKERS488]

It's always a great day when you see a new TJ Video. Still batting 1000 TJ. you have become a master of your craft. Thanks for all your hard work and amazing research BTW: When I started this post you had 2782 views and in this short time it changed to 2875 views so I guess I'm not the only one who loves your videos. LOl. Please Keep 'em Flyin. We got your six. Have a great week end TJ.

[@Scott-et4kd]

Dude, your script writer, editor, sound engineer, and especially your production manager should win Academy Awards

[@fishpoem1433]

Great job in keeping alive the greatest drama in recent American history. Due to the current priorities in K-12 schools, many younger Americans have no clue about the daring, courage, and resilience of their forefathers during WWII. Thanks!

[@SNP-1999]

Compared to the B17 Flying Fortress, the B24 Liberator had a bad reputation for catching fire and exploding, despite being an overall rugged aircraft that could take quite a beating before being shot down.

[@nickmitsialis]

Not just that but even though a Liberator had longer range and better bomb load, it was VERY hard to fly in tight formation (this per Donald Caldwell, an American WW2 Aviation Historian); while a B17, once trimmed could literally 'fly itself' in formation, a "24" had to be controlled at all times by the pilots, which got very fatiguing; as such, Liberator formations tended to drift apart during missions--and well all know that poor formations always attracted the Luftwaffe fighters. It's also said that the the B24's best altitude was also the FW 190's best altitude, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not.

[@SNP-1999]

@@nickmitsialis Well said and very informative - thanks very much for your insights.

[@nickmitsialis]

@@SNP-1999 All thanks to Don Caldwell's superlative histories.

[@michaelmazowiecki9195]

Over 42% of all Liberators were destroyed in crashes and combat, the worst stats of WW2.

[@konradheumann8342]

The Focke-Wulf had insane firepower for a fighter.

[@isidroruiz8056]

Yes it's because the one shown here were Sturmbocke FW variants literally "Battering rams" which were Heavily Armed and Armored Bomber Killers

[@michaelmazowiecki9195]

Over 6,000 of 14,000 B24 Liberators produced during WW2 were lost in combat and accidents. Those are the worst stats for US produced bombers.

[@ericfoster7805]

My dad was a ball turret gunner in the B-24. Towards the end of the war they had enough escorts that the extra drag and weight of the ball was more of a liability than an asset so they removed it and they moved dad to the waist position. This video shows and animated B-24 Liberator taking off with its ball turret extended. Unlike the B-17 this could not have been possible even if they wanted it extended as the Lib's belly was far too close to the ground to lower it. The advantage was a little speed due to the reduced drag, they lowered the ball as they neared France and dad would crawl in.

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

TJ great work as usual. You have a great ability to draw the viewer in to the story, making it very real .

[@RedStarAero]

Among all of the air combat history videos that I have watched, this is probably the most saddest story that Ive ever listened and watched to. Even though the bombers are gone, but history would never forget them. And of course the bravery of the men themselves

[@HenryThree]

Don't you hate it when your escort abandons you? I mean I'm already self-conscious enough about having to hire one in the first place...

[@jprules2578]

Yeah, never mention recent doctor visits, and carry breath mints.

[@chrishoman3928]

Lmmfao

[@conradnelson5283]

Ikr

[@richardkudrna7503]

I know of a guy who hired a “night person”. She went out for cigarettes and never came back.

[@HenryThree]

@@richardkudrna7503 just like my dad 😢

[@lenyfreeman3807]

4:06 Interesting the lady Georgette is wearing a Playboy Bunny outfit but the Bunnies did not debut until 1960. What's up with that?

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

It's probably a Vargas Girl.

[@sergiogregorat1830]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 It's not Vargas' style, the girl looks too human, not like a blow-up doll.

[@phxJohn2010]

​@sergiogregorat1830 that's nonsensical. It's clearly a Vargas girl. I can show you dozens of examples of Vargas girl nose art from Korea that don't look like blow up dolls.

[@JGCR59]

It's Bernburg not Bernberg. Bernberg is in Westphalia while Bernburg is in Saxony-Anhalt

[@micheldaubigne7629]

YOUR ART WORK / ANIMATION IS TOP SHELF👍...Some really professional work man ...nice job! ~M

[@steveshoemaker6347]

What a very sad day for 859th Bomb Squadron.......Thanks Trent for all of your amazing research in making TJ3 History excellent WW2 video videos....... Old F-4 II Shoe🇺🇸

[@TJ3]

Thanks for your continued support Shoe!

[@SierraThunder]

Okay, given that this mid-1944, and an after-action report specifically states, "nose turret", this means that the squadron was made up of B-24 'H' or 'J' models with the powered Emerson Electric nose turret and not the earlier B-24"D" models which had a combination of both fixed & flexible .50 caliber machine guns. Once again, never having played War Thunder, I don't know if either the later H or J models are offered in the sim, but if the sim is all that it's made out to be, I would find it odd that those models, (either the H or J model wouldn't be offered in the sim.

[@Bugsworth]

Good naration but sorry i had to hit stop cus the music is too loud and distracting. Any chance of a re post without the din please?!

[@drgondog]

The 14th BW (44th 392nd and 492nd) were victims of a late take off of 4th FG escort due to illness of 336FS mission commander. The 4th was tasked to provide two squadrons to escort the Ascherslaben strike to the north and 336th was to cover the 14th BW to Bernberg, The 355th was escorting the 2nd CW to Halle. As a result of the 336 arriving late, the replacement squadron CO never made R/V with 14th CW and turned north toward Aschersleben, leaving the 14th unescorted. At this moment the 14th (n0 escort) was headed for Bernberg, the 2nd to Halle (355th) and 96th to ese to Lutzkendorf ( ecorted by 20th FG P-38s). The losses occurred from 0935 to 0940 (approximately) The 856BS/492nd lost 7(?) during June 20 mission and the July 7 losses to 859th was last straw as 492nd was de-activated in August, then remnants reconstituted as Special Operations Group - Carpetbaggers

[@Dav1Gv]

Thanks for an excellent video of a very very sad battle. I was born just before war broke out and didn't meet my father (although he probably saw me as a baby) until VE day but at least he came back. RIP to all those who didn't. A cousin of my wife's was killed on his second tour flying a Lancaster.

[@mortenjohansen4120]

Leipzig is in Germany, not Poland

[@samuelmorado70]

I met a guy in 1993 who parachuted out of a B-24 and landed in a field. He was beat and captured by Farmers .He said the farmers had pitchforks. He made it home to Texas.

[@mylinbirguelles1032]

Great work again TJ3 HISTORY ,sad sad very sad for those men who gave their lives in the name of freedom and justice,all brave souls gone in a matter of minutes,the whole bomb squadron,these men should be always remembered in the annals of air war of ETO,oh almighty god the father bless their brave souls

[@TJ3]

Thanks for watching!

[@LancelotChan]

Which was the plane that got crashed by the ghost bomber from the other group?

[@filippopulitano-kk6gu]

That plane wasn’t part of the 859th so we cannot know.

[@gibson617ajg]

The CGI in this video is superb.

[@BullGator-kd6ge]

Appears to be from the video game War Thunder

[@phxJohn2010]

​@@BullGator-kd6geit is. He's mentioned that in other videos.

[@alexzander1839]

The 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing NEVER abandoned the bombers they escorted and they never received the acknowledgement that pilots of far less valor did.

[@JAEUFM]

Seems like most other 'disasters' that happen. Just a series of small mistakes, that on their own, would amount to nothing, but, put all together, are catastrophic.

[@richardkudrna7503]

I worked (long ago) with a Canadian tail gunner who survived 25 missions. He wasn’t happy about all his missions and described a low level daylight bombing with burning children running about. I told him I knew perfectly that he followed orders and did not select the targets. Later he described how upon returning to his French Canadian home town in Manitoba his family was happy to see him but asked him to move away as the town shunned them for the massacre of civilians. To this day some people deny the truth about massacre of civilians. The Canadian National Film Board produced a documentary with recovered orders and after action reports and later withdrew it due to the anger and denial. I wonder if this documentary has been destroyed or is possible to watch.

[@pamgross2146]

My Uncle Richard West, was on the Georgette. Looking at the picture, his is on the top right. He was captured by the Germans and was in a POW camp.

[@victorhovat3954]

Excellent research and narration second to none .

[@jean-robertlombard1416]

Beau travail. Bravo et merci.

[@troygroomes104]

To bad i know of 1 worse mission for bomber crews , the biggest raids for the b-17's before d-day lost 5 whole squadrons during the Swinefurt & Reganburg raids of 1942 or 1943

[@1168PJ]

Those were the raids in August and October 1943. In the first one they lost 60 B17s. That's 600 men. The second one in October was equally bad.

[@jeffreywright4656]

"One night after D-Day, July 7th" - Really??

[@josefhorndl3469]

At about 0:50 he said: "It is one month after D-Day, July 7th of 1944"!

[@davezemba9109]

The calendar he shows in the beginning is also wrong. July 7th was a Friday not Saturday.

[@robertballard8833]

Like your vids - great simulation, good detail. Curious - why do you choose to have a AI representation of yourself? Is that your voice, or AI?

[@TJ3]

That is my voice and myself on camera.

[@robertballard8833]

@@TJ3 Wow - the video looks affected somehow.

[@michaelnaven213]

Flying B-24Ds in 1944? Would not there B-24Hs or Gs or even Js? Just asking.

[@Rain-uc4ru]

= TJ royally "F&&KED UP" on this one due to showing N.M.F x B.24 D's from North Pickenham They should ALL be B.24 J's or H's etc, but NOT "Birdcage Nosed" D's, nor in "Natural Metal Finish Historically what he's done here is "a howler" (mistake), but his video in my view is SUPERB I have before, pulled up TJ on a previous video he made, with 8th & 15th B.24's in the same formation !! Actually when I pointed out to him that Italy & Norfolk, England B.24's would NEVER be in same formation... He took it really well & even apologised, which I told him was "unnecessary" & most folks wouldn't know I live down the road from North Pickenham (Airfield these crews in TJ's video lived, flew & fought from) Hence my knowledge & high level of interest in the 492nd & 491st B.G's local to me.... This next article might interest you (?) as it's THE Pub on the Airfield boundary where these crews used www.edp24.co.uk/news/24193097.blue-lion-pub-north-pickenham-turned-housing/ When I used to go drinking there (10-15 yrs ago) they had LOADS of memorabilia inside the Pub Another link mentions "BEATRICE LEAH NICHOLS" being THE landlady from 1940-1950... So SHE would be the one (& her husband) serving pints to the USAAF crewmen seen in TJ's video www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norfolkn/northpickenham/npicbl.htm Back in 2008 my mate Wayne had his birthday at the Pub & "Go Kart" track inside the old B.24 base !!

[@schoolofrockcary6625]

​@Rain-uc4ru My grandfather was a nose gunner in the 492nd, and for the record by this stage of the war they were flying the B-24J series. Great video otherwise!

[@Rain-uc4ru]

@@schoolofrockcary6625 = Your Grandad no doubt too went drinking Beer down @ "The Blue Lion" Pub (it's the Pub on the edge of the base, in the Norfolk Village of North Pickenham where they were based My favourite North Pickenham B.24 Liberator is the beautiful nose art B.24 named "Ark Angel" Again, another stunner who was sadly shot-down on a later mission.... Her photo's tho' look really fresh, like they taken after 2015

[@arthurrobertsoniii6073]

U r right michael. This is all wrong. By '44 we had gone to Hs. I know, dad flew the all Ds in the sates, in '43 and Hs in Italy, 1944. Sad that the illustrator did not do a better 'recon job on this topic. Ruins it for those who know.

[@Rain-uc4ru]

@@arthurrobertsoniii6073 = I agree somewhat TJ made an absolute howler in one of his other B.24 videos (earlier) I pulled him up on it, as it showed 15th & 8th AF B.24's in formation That's a joke, as England & Italy are at least 1,370 miles apart** **I'm giving you the mileage between North Pickenham & Foggia He did apologise & at that time, didn't realise his catastrophic error I told him "𝗜𝘁'𝘀 𝗼𝗸, 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗹𝗸𝘀 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱𝗻'𝘁 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝗲 𝗶𝘁 𝗮𝗻𝘆𝗵𝗼𝘄, 𝘀𝗮𝗱𝗹𝘆" You DO have to make allowances when folks make a 2020's video The correct types & variants are not always available at the time. The worst howler is that rubbish HBO series "Masters of the Air" They show FULL 100th B.G formations on a Bombing Raid in 1945 B.17-F's (long since retired), in FAKE "N.M.F" silver over Berlin 1945 Wouldn't happen & NEVER happened - Wrong timeline , totally. Bit like showing a 'Mach.1' Mustang in Steve McQueen film "Bullitt" Or British soldiers @ Waterloo 1815 using mobile phones w/muskets "Masters of the Air" staff got VERY sloppy inaccurate over that one ( I'm told Covid interrupted, then, they got VERY sloppy !! )

[@Springbok295]

Are those B-24Js?

[@jimreilly9749]

Great watch but I didn't know Buddy Holly was still alive.

[@waynerumble6587]

As far as killing aircrew on the ground by civilians, the same thing happed to German aircrew in the UK, particularly during the Battle of Britain.

[@americanpatriot2422]

Outstanding video and presentation.

[@grahamlowe7388]

the luftwaffe was supposedly beaten by june 44. who had them there unescorted should have faced a court martial.

[@joelhiltz3329]

Enjoyed the straight forward story telling presentation. Good delivery excellent graphics. Kudos.

[@paulwiggins183]

These were D model 24's?

[@arthurrobertsoniii6073]

Exactly Paul, my question too. We did not use Ds in '44, they were Hs mostly, maybe so Js too.

[@marvwatkins7029]

That jacket doesn't make him look at all authentic.

[@MrAbhix7]

As a pilot if you land in enemy territory your at their mercy in most cases they kill you straight away

[@darrengilbert7438]

Your graphics are wrong. The B-17s would be the G models, not the F model in your video. The B-24s would have been the B-24J model with the nose turret, not the green house nose of the B-24D.

[@peddersoldchap]

Thank you for not calling the Germans the N-word (the other one), and treating all sides with respect.

[@hansgruber650]

Their Immigrants played a big role in developing early America.

[@PeteL-u1d]

But we are (well at least still) white?

[@TurboMountTV]

B-24 doesn't seem nearly as resilient as B-17

[@RaizalAJalil-zc5iu]

Always 2 sides to a fight. One side come to bomb. The other side desperately tried to prevent the bombing. But with the same results. Young men and women on both sides die. Family suffered and some will also even die, such as those who were bombed. Not all targets were military.

[@jamesmuller3807]

What women were involved.

[@_itzzwar_2059]

@@jamesmuller3807 The women in the bombed towns in England, Germany and the occupied countries around.

[@CH-lc3yf]

@@jamesmuller3807 My grandmother for example. Being a young girl right in the area the video describes.

[@christopheglachet5760]

Le B24 était plus vulnérable et encaissait moins bien les tirs que le B17 pourtant plus ancien de conception..

[@petrstindl2703]

I think in July 1944 all liberators were version H/J not D ... even if in CBI theatre

[@SS-rz1oc]

Do you have a crew list of names on each plane? Specifically the I’ll be Around?

[@Georgi_Slavov_Rose_Land]

How can you watch this with constant midroll ads?

[@eSSEPAPIRET1]

Luftwaffe Sturmgruppen led by major Walter Dahl

[@Daniel47923]

TJ, your content rocks. Thanks for the great vid.

[@TJ3]

Thanks for watching!

[@alfred3844]

It starts with an error: July 7th is NOT 1 day after D-Day.

[@Steeler-wg5zo]

poor map of 'former' Germany anyway...

[@kw19193]

The number of 'kills' claimed by bomber gunners were ridiculous, they were so over the moon high that the Luftwaffe would have been severely hampered if they were true. The real purpose of the gunners in a bomb group was to break up the ability of the German aircraft to maintain a stable attack run on the bombers. In this they were indeed highly successful - limiting the time fighters had to hit a targeted bomber to a matter of a few seconds. But in the age of Spielberg and KZbin the Luftwaffe lost scores of fighters on every single mission, after all, the Americans were near-mythical superheroes, the Germans just a clump of incompetent chumps. Cheers!

[@raptorhacker599]

well the germans barely had flying aircraft after 43.

[@Andy-co6pn]

I'm sure the exaggerated claims came from multiple gunners shooting at the same aircraft and all claiming the kill

[@jimholloman4457]

Would have been a good video without the extremely loud background music that competes with the dialog.

[@RickMason-yj7pv]

Fighters without external tanks had limited range. You expect them to land sans fuel in enemy territory?

[@falconinflight6235]

"Thank you for serving." What, because you didn't have to go to the war???

[@SierraThunder]

If the hits killed the pilot & co-pilot, then why are the hits being shown going through the greenhouse? This might have turned out killing both the bombardier & navigator, but it wouldn't have taken out the cockpit area, unless the hits had come up on a steep angle from below. The hits may not have even killed the cockpit crewmen, but may have instead severed the control cables, which would have accomplished the same results, taking out the ability to control the plane any longer. Or was this just an issue within the flight sim itself in trying to show the hits? I've never played War Thunder, so I don't know how difficult it is to repeat a particular scenario multiple times to get the damage effects where you want them in order to tell the story.

[@theaviationarchaeologist8519]

Did they not use B-24H and not the old D versions?

[@Edelwulf]

Please use maps of the period.

[@kadrikarakoc807]

23:06 Wait a minute, how can you reach these letters?

[@robertmendick3195]

A number of US ships in the Pacific theater had catastrophic explosions when Japanese torpedoes or airiplane bombs scored a hit on their ammunition magazines... On the planes, were there similar incidents of catastrophic explosions from AAA or interceptor plane gunfire hitting the bomb loads on the B-17s and 24s?

[@Paui-yb2cp]

When it goes wrong, it's goes wrong.

[@clarencesammah5443]

Will it be at all possible to get the writing, memories of the men and women from the then British Caribbean colonies. Who volunteered and fought on behalf of the U.K?

[@Joe-bx4wn]

Jimmy Stewart was a flight leader. After 20 missions they had to transfer him cause HE WAS LOSING IT.

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow, eeeeh, James Stuart ... He indeed suffered a great deal from PTSD

[@darcykuhlengel759]

Sad, but B-24s carried twice the bomb load opposed to B-17s. That aircraft was Very Fragile compared to the 17. My late 8th Air Corps Bombardier B-17 Father-In Law would Not fly in them.

[@davef.2329]

Your presentation, especially the CGI is awesome. Thanks.

[@brittakriep2938]

Being german, i don' t know what a Reik is. If you mean Reich , the ch sound is similar to the noise of an angry cat.

[@PETERWATT-ly5yt]

didn't you say there were 12 planes in a squadron, so it was just over 1/2 shot down a fight of 7 planes not a squadron

[@Renshen1957]

Bf 109 not Me109…

[@andraslibal]

One side was defending their lands, factories, homes, wives and children. The other side are called heroes ...

[@paul-andrelarose3389]

The general Society of today cannot even begin to fathom the courage and sacrifices of those who fought to make possible our current privileged situation. This is made possible by the collective ignorance of History, thus failing to develop the critical mind that is necessary to avoid deception by opportunistic politicians. 2024/07/23. Ontario, Canada.

[@HerrDocktor23]

Thank you , so true. The news media spews a constant stream of propaganda advancing perversion, crime and globalism

[@mystikmind2005]

You wouldn't think the allies were so short on escort fighters in '1944' that they couldn't spare any for these guys??

[@arthurrobertsoniii6073]

I am really sad that the producer of this video flubbed his job. B-24Ds are shown here. They were outdated by this date. Nose turreted model Hs, like that of my dad, were in action in '44.

[@rogercarbonell3696]

The fighter aircrafts were the defenders, the bombers were the attackers.