Ep 1: Drill Press Upgrade | Getting Started . . .

[@FdBrat]

Oh man. The mill banter bit was gold.

[@routercnc9517]

If I ever find out where that other guy is hiding in my workshop . . .

[@FdBrat]

@@routercnc9517 make a trap to catch the Heckler Gnome.

[@routercnc9517]

@@FdBrat Another project . . . I like it !

[@robbiejames1540]

This is interesting... I'll see how it goes and I might have a go at my little pillar drill if all goes well! Can't wait for the next installment.

[@routercnc9517]

Ok thanks. Even if you just replace with a similar size 3 phase motor it will be a good improvement and should more or less drop in.

[@iainhetherington4608]

You have an excellent teaching manner ,absolutely clear and don’t miss a thing ,I will be watching more Cheers from Aus

[@routercnc9517]

Hi Iain. OK thanks for following along !

[@TechLaboratory]

The project is very cool! I will follow him. Like definitely!

[@routercnc9517]

Thank you !

[@angel1138thx]

Fantastic project waiting for the next video thank you very much for sharing

[@routercnc9517]

Thank you, glad you found it interesting. It is turning out to be quite involved but I'm sure we will get there.

[@howesinc]

New components day is the best! Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@routercnc9517]

Yes, it's like Christmas again. Let's hope I can keep up the enthusiasm !

[@bonjipoo]

The Bosch PBD40 I realise is a DIY type of tool and only small but it actually has some great features like electronic speed control with RPM adjustment and load detection, Digital hole depth read out, light, led cross hairs (gimmick) and you can adjust the height without loosing your hole alignment. Also the built in pillar clamping foot is one of its best features. No vice needed. I didn't expect much when I bought mine but its actually good for 95% of drilling tasks. I totally admire your skills to upgrade and build great machines by the way. Really inspiring watching these videos.

[@routercnc9517]

Ok yes I’ve seen those around but not used them. Apart from no xy table that sounds like a good diy machine. Thanks

[@WobblycogsUk]

Very cool project, you've really inspired me to get back to trying to build a CNC machine of my own (and answered some questions I had). I love the detail you're going into, I wish more people would actually explain what they are doing and why they are doing it.

[@routercnc9517]

Thanks. I was worried it would be too detailed (people have short attention spans !) so that is good feedback thanks. I think you were on the mycncuk forum, but haven't seen you for a while ?

[@davidrobinson7112]

I find you tube woodworking videos extremely valuable. Some do not have the detail others do. I would like to know the approximate cost of machines demonstrated and their source. Detailed parts lists of diy projects would be a lot of help. Also a slow motion insert would be a good addition. These statements are not complaints. I dearly love all of the videos provided...

[@routercnc9517]

Drill was from Warco and cost about £300 several years ago. Linear rails and ballscrew from Banggood, aluminium from aluminium warehouse and eBay. 3 phase Motor from tec dot co dot uk. VFD from Banggood and electronic components. Hope to spend less than £600 as some parts sent for review.

[@dejanbrice8774]

Watching this makes me realise how good my STARTRITE MERCURY press is! Old machines are the best ;)

[@routercnc9517]

Before I bought this many years ago I looked at some of the old machines but settled on this new Warco model. I am very pleased with and would still recommend it as good value, just think it can be improved ! Out of interest how does your Startrite cope with quill play, speed change, and table positioning on raise and lower ? Thanks

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

Cool project..very thanks for your time

[@routercnc9517]

Thanks. Turning in to a long project but we’re getting there!

[@Plexsus44]

I love the other guy in the background lol.

[@routercnc9517]

He is so annoying! One day I’ll find out where he hides in my workshop . . .

[@mikestarkey7989]

YOU KNOW you've no intention of not turning into a milling machine? You know you want to!😁😁😁

[@routercnc9517]

Still tempted. . .

[@thomassutrina7469]

The Fong Fu RF40 milling machine I purchased is run off of single phase power with a similar inverter. I am going to look into your connections. Right now it is on the wall next to the mill. I did try to mill with one of those cheap vises with x-y positioning. What happens with a mill tool cutting a groove is to loosen the Morse or Jacob taper standard on drill presses and the chuck will drop out of the spindle of the drill press. This is why on milling machines there is a screw used to pull the taper upwards to maintain the press fit. I was thinking of how to solve this problem. For a Morse taper a standard shaft can be purchased with a threaded hole in stead of the double flat tang. And for my hand drill a screw is used to hold the chuck on to the shaft for the same reason of preventing the chuck from coming loose. For the Morse taper with a threaded hole I was thinking of putting a bar across the slot for removing a Morse taper shank. And have a screw reach down to pull the Morse taper up. How to get at the screw to tighten in will be interesting. One may have to use two or three Allen wrenches with the wrench softened and twisted to get different angles of the hex from the handle. Your best bet is to get an ER chuck on a Morse taper shank. Then you can properly hold a milling tool.

[@routercnc9517]

I’ve not seen good reviews of any of the cheap xy tables and the more expensive ones are quite small. So decided to make my own. The other problem with the spindle is the bearings are likely to be the wrong type and not take radial loads. For milling I would most likely start again with the quill - but trying not to go there for now to keep the project manageable. Thanks

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

I saw video few months ago where guy converted drill into milling machine. He said it's really bad idea, but it SOMEHOW worked. Very poorly. But honestly, if you have nothing, then even this - kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3uQhY2se9WMa5o - "thing" is awesome step up! edit: and if I remember it correctly, it was AvE - kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3uQhY2se9WMa5o

[@routercnc9517]

Yes, I remember it well. AvE has his own way of doing things . . . !

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

Very well said!

[@molitovv]

Excited!

[@routercnc9517]

Good! At least you weren’t ‘bored’ . . .

[@molitovv]

routercnc Just found the time to watch the video through. Great project, another machine to be jealous of! I fitted a car steering wheel to my drill press to operate the quill, following in the footsteps of many KZbin machinists - Highly recommended, really nice upgrade.

[@routercnc9517]

Sorry it ended up being a bit long ! I’ve seen the steering wheel idea - to be honest I’m ok with the tripod handle. Maybe I should just motorise it (!)

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

If this inverter supports it, are you planning to add feedback sensor? For example induction sensor switching once/twice per output shaft revolution, so you have closed loop regulator. I know our small Yaskawa at jobsite can do that (there's even integrated PID regulator!) but I have no idea how common it is. Also if you have one spare digital input, you could probably find out voltage threshold when input switches and wire up voltage divider of one fixed resistor and your PTC in motor. So when PTC changes rapidly its resistance, it would go over threshold and for example stop your inverter :)

[@routercnc9517]

The invertor is very cheap and the motor control is fairly basic. Just v/f scalar control with a small amount of configurable torque boost. It is not well explained but I will go into that on the next video. It does not have closed loop control just open loop based on sensing the drive signals and assuming behaviour against a theoretical motor model. Your PTC idea is interesting. The proper relays are £45 upwards new which is half the cost of the motor ! I’ve already sketched up a voltage divider circuit (you need to have max 2.5V across the PTC ) and was feeding the tap point into an op amp module to compare to a reference voltage and trip the relay. This would go into the digital input. Your idea is simpler - I’ll see what I go with in the end. Thanks

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

**checks out Google** wow, that's really cheap o.o And now I'll think how to add simple and cheap feedback loop because I really like thinking about useless stuff :D Thank you ^^ It's good that you noted 2.5V voltage drop across PTC, I totally missed that! In that case it makes more sense to use opamp. Also if you buy opamp which works at low voltages (no problem in this century), then you could power it directly from inverter and connect its output directly to inverter too with no need of another relay.

[@routercnc9517]

Yes, that is my current idea if I don't go for the commercial thermistor relay module. You can buy an op amp module for about £4 ($5?) which contains all you need (except the voltage divider part). It even has an on-board relay so you would just connect that to one of the digital inputs and set it as the alarm. Something like that anyway. Still a way off and plenty of time. Thanks

[@DreitTheDarkDragon]

I'd go with simple opamp then ;) Ideas I just got: - add resistor (maybe 100k?) in parallel with sensor in your motor, so when it loses connection for any reason, it will automatically switch everything off - maybe add tiny capacitor in parallel too, I guess some high frequency garbage might get into wires and then randomly switch comparator. - and if I am correct, if you want manual reset, you can add positive feedback to opamp (so it will become schmitt trigger - www.random-science-tools.com/electronics/inverting-schmitt-trigger-calculator.htm ) and then disconnect fixed resistor of your voltage divider by NC switch to reset it. ....or short out PTC with NO switch, that would work too, BUT if you keep switch pressed, it will run without temperature protection.

[@routercnc9517]

These are all great ideas thank you. I need to think about all my options because it is very easy to burn up time making what initially look like simple add-ons and then run into little technical issues. Avoiding false triggers from electrical interference and so on. Eventually you get to that point where you wish you had just bought the commercial unit as it should just work and you can get on with the project. It is a safety critical item - for your wallet at least !. However, I Don't need to decide yet which way to go, but it does give me more to think about, thanks.

[@nicolaspillot5789]

Great video !!! where did you buy the shielded 3 phase + earth power cable ?

[@routercnc9517]

Missed this comment, sorry for the delay. I bought it years ago so can't quite remember but I just did an ebay search for "SY BRAIDED CONTROL CABLE 4 CORE 1.5MM 2.5MM 4MM FLEXIBLE STEEL WIRE ARMOURED" and found some there.

[@watahyahknow]

small tip on hooking up the wiring : make the ground wre longer then the rest , that way if for watever reason the wires get jerked out of their holder the grounding is the last to let go

[@routercnc9517]

Yes I’d heard that one and it makes sense, thanks

[@thomassutrina7469]

The casting head is not as stiff as a milling machine, not made for large side loads. A single bearing is in a drill press nearest the chuck. For high thrust an angular contact bearing is the likely bearing. I can not believe that they didn't select a more common angular contact bearing, not almost a thrust bearing. These bearing can take a reasonable amount of side thrust. Recall that my father's cars almost exclusively had these radial contact bearing on the front wheels. The key was to minimized the clearance and not cause in to increase with a side load. Thus the books told you to tighten them by hand and then back off ~ 1/4 turn, get the correct clearance but be very stiff.

[@routercnc9517]

Agreed. I’m not planning on making a milling machine just precision drilling so I can leave the casting and spindle for now. If I ever did create a milling machine the head casting would be stiffened by more box section and most likely would make or buy a new spindle designed for milling. Thanks

[@willyhooyberghs8068]

You may consider extending the blocking mechanism for the height adjustment of the table. Ergonomically better, you don't have to get on your knees every time to block the table.

[@routercnc9517]

Good idea !

[@ingokessler2218]

Very cool Idea.I have a similar Machine from Kern. Looks like in the end of 80 s. I have tried the same with invertor and the orginal engine with no success. When i drilling i have no enough Power. Engine to old ? I dont know. Hope i see the next Episode soon. Best wishes from Germany / Bodensee

[@routercnc9517]

The current single phase motor is 650 W and it has plenty of power for drilling holes. I could have replaced it with a 750 W 3 phase motor and inverter and it would have been fine. What power motor do you have and is it 3 phase? I read somewhere that the older 3 phase motors are less suitable for invertor use.

[@ingokessler2218]

@@routercnc9517 the Engine have 750W and 3 Phase like yours. in triangle circuit the Engine goes very Hot. i go back to Star connection. This is the Orginal circuit. I think too the older Motors will not work with invertor. Hope the next Episode come soon.

[@routercnc9517]

OK. The delta/triangle and start/Y are essentially the motor being wired in series or parallel, with the motor current double for delta. Probably why it got so hot. I’m not sure if you have any further options but worth posting on a machining forum for more help. Working on the next video where we will take a detailed look at the inverter amongst other things. Thanks

[@Goguleroma]

For the up and down of the bed is better to use a worm gear (even if that means to have the ingerent reduction) because it cannot be back driven. So you cannot have the bed to lower by itself.

[@routercnc9517]

Yes good point and that bothered me for a while during the design development because the table will be quite heavy. So I have gone for a fine pitch ballscrew (5 mm) which will help with back driving, but I'm not sure yet if it is enough. I'm trying not to use a worm gear as it will take forever to raise and lower due to the gear reduction. That would lead me towards motorising it . . . . still time to think about the best option.

[@Goguleroma]

@@routercnc9517 well you could use the worm gear and drive it with a 755 motor and it costs next to nothing to power it with pwm reversible controller. And with that system you can go quite accurate because the reduction of the gear plus the reduction of the screw itself. And if controlling if only electrically bothers you, just add a manual shaft in parallel with the motor maybe with a 2:1 gear increased ratio. Not too complicated to do. If you want contact me.

[@routercnc9517]

True. I’ve also got a spare stepper motor with driver and power supply, plus pulse generator module. Or an old cordless drill. Decisions , decisions, decisions. . .

[@Z-Ack]

The amount of money for all the materials and machining time with build would still run you a good weeks of work and cost almost as much as a mini mill would..

[@routercnc9517]

True. But the hobby is the journey . . .

[@thermicdude9164]

Needs steppers.... For more precision "drilling"

[@routercnc9517]

Don’t tempt me !

[@thermicdude9164]

@@routercnc9517 it would make complicated hole patterns a breeze!

[@routercnc9517]

True ! Let’s see how it goes and if I maintain the enthusiasm during the build

[@donereyes]

Could it be improved???🤔🤔 😹😹😹😹 that got me

[@routercnc9517]

Hopefully the answer is ‘yes’ !

[@alext8828]

It looks almost like a milling machine.

[@routercnc9517]

Looks similar but I can't mill with it unfortunately. The quill bearings are not designed for side loads, plus there is no drawbar to hold the chuck so it would most likely fly out when cutting! It was designed to be a precision drill press for hole patterns etc. Thanks for watching.

[@ryebis]

You could get a mill and use it for precision drilling, just saying...

[@routercnc9517]

Yes, I looked into that option for some time. To get the features I wanted was around £1700 for a mill, plus I don't have space for another machine (workshop is very slightly larger than a 1 car garage). I also thought about selling the drill, and buying a mill to put in the same place, but I quite like having a drill press. So for now the upgrade works out quite cheap and should be a fun project.

[@janes-e378]

Why not just buy a milling machine??

[@routercnc9517]

I may do that in the future if I can find space and get ‘finance approval’ but I really wanted to make this drill press more capable. Having finished it a while ago I have no regrets!

[@routercnc9517]

I might do that if I can find space in the future but for this project I wanted to improve the drill press.