Ep. 11 - Changes in the Autism Discourse with Prof. Tony Attwood

Ep. 11 - Changes in the Autism Discourse (with Prof. Tony Attwood) - We had a chat with Tony about the changes in autism advocacy, education, and perspectives during his career. We also discuss changes in how autism has been viewed diagnostically, and how people could have been missed earlier and who would receive a diagnosis now.
GUEST BIO: Professor Tony Attwood is a clinical psychologist who has specialised in Autism Spectrum Disorders since he qualified as a clinical psychologist in England in 1975. He currently works in his own private practice, and is also adjunct professor at Griffith University, Queensland. His book Asperger’s Syndrome - A Guide for Parents and Professionals has sold over 500,000 copies and has been translated into 27 languages. His subsequent book, The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome, published in October 2006 has sold over 300,000 copies and has been
translated into 18 languages, and is one of the primary textbooks on Asperger’s syndrome, otherwise known as Autism Spectrum Disorder - Level 1. He has several subsequent books published by Jessica Kingsley Publishers, Future Horizons Inc. and Guilford Press on emotion management, relationships and sexuality, and general advice for autistic children and adults. Tony has been invited to be a keynote speaker at many Australasian and International Conferences. He presents workshops and runs training courses for parents, professionals and individuals with Asperger's syndrome all over the world and is a prolific author of scientific papers and books on the subject. He has presented several live webinars with his colleague, Dr Michelle Garnett, which have been recorded and can be accessed via their website at www.attwoodandgarnettevents.com. He has worked with many thousands of individuals of all ages with many expressions of autism.
Thing of the Day: How to Talk about Autism Respectfully: A Field Guide for Journalists, Educators, Doctors and anyone else who wants to know how to better communicate about Autism by Mykola Bilokonsky
coda.io/@mykola-bilokonsky/pu...
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Autistic Tidbits & Tangents is a biweekly podcast, co-hosted by Kara Dymond & Maja Toudal, centered around topics relevant to autism and the lives of autistic people. We are both autistic professionals with a passion for broadening and advancing accessibility for autistic people and understanding of autism and neurodiversity. We approach our work with the combination of our personal and professional experiences.
Episodes can be found on Spotify, Anchor, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts and with video on KZbin.
Maja's Social Media: www.majatoudal.com / KZbin - An Autistic Psychologist / Facebook - @majatoudal / Twitter - @majatoudal / Instagram - @majatoudal
Kara's Social Media: www.karadymond.com / KZbin - Dr. Kara Dymond / Facebook - @drkaradymond / Twitter - @drkaradymond / Instagram - @drkaradymond
Tony's Social Media: tonyattwood.com.au/
SPECIAL THANKS:
-Theme composed by Bruce Petherick
-Today's guest, Prof. Tony Attwood

[@jackiebuttnor8410]

As someone that has to deal with Situational Mutism. Dr. Attwood has hit the nail on the head when it comes to my experience. When I am mute. The fact is, my mind is going miles a second, but.. I feel 100% incapable of making my vocal cords work and am often very still. It feels like a short circuit between my brain and my body.

[@dustistreet5108]

I will probably get virtually “yelled” at again but when I was first diagnosed as having Asperger’s I went to Aspie meetups with fellow Aspies. So I still feel like an Aspie. I actually had a panic attack when Asperger Syndrome was taken out of the DSM-5. It was like they erased us. I still feel that way even though there are many Autistics in my family. I’m still the only one who was diagnosed as Asperger’s. If these same family members had been diagnosed when I was, they too would have been diagnosed as an Aspie. I can’t seem to switch my brain to say I’m Autistic rather than Aspie.

[@blondequijote]

The commercialized science of psychiatry isn't interested in ur special syndrome they can't sell pills to fix. Write your own magic spellbook to turn symptoms into things insurance pays for if hanging on to some German doctor's name is so important. They make fun of Freud and he doesn't even have a funny sounding name.

[@thexpax]

Professor Tony Attwood has said he disagreed with the subsuming of aspergers into autism, and that it had it's own peculiarities. You can't get more authoritative than him, whether you're the DSM or ICD comittees ! He explained that in his KZbin "Could It Be Autism?" video, interestingly.

[@215Gallagher]

I'm late diagnosed complex PTSD and ADHD though less H since my teens. I reckon I'd be Aspergers but not at all autistic. There has been a decades long campaign, led to some extent by Simon Baron-Cohen, to insert Aspies into the autistic spectrum, whereas I'd argue that Aspies are possibly the least autistic people on the planet. I do know a few Aspies and find them to be the most honest, considerate and decent people I know and the trouble they have with decoding social situations comes from the absurdity of other people, the so-called neurotypicals. I have looked quite deeply into the question of Aspergers' place on the autistic spectrum and find the whole idea somewhat sinister. I see it as the suppression, through ignorance, of a new and different sort of human being who rather than being self-absorbed and anti-social is quite the opposite and is often acutely aware of others and really wants to do the right thing. As Prof. Attwood pointed out; the problem is often the neurotypicals who can often be bullies. To my mind the neurotypicals are like pack dogs and seem to smell out difference. It's interesting that I can be very close to individuals on a one-to-one basis (because I am a great conversationalist with the right sort of person) even typicals. However, the same individual, if they are a typical, will often be cool and distant towards me in a social setting. Who know, maybe people can let their guard down with me but in a social setting they put it right up which for me means virtual exclusion. Take care and I hope the often silly Australian Government doesn't take your driver's license away.

[@fabiogfranco]

You are right - and the reason they took Asperger’s out of the DSM was because they wanted to cancel Hans Asperger, who they consider a “nazi”. Read Asperger’s Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna by Edith Sheffer

[@fabiogfranco]

You are right - and the reason they took Asperger’s out of the DSM was because they wanted to cancel Hans Asperger, who they consider a “nazi”. Read Asperger’s Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna by Edith Sheffer

[@JustHowItIs]

I am autistic. I gained a sense of humour. For example, my joke I created: What do you call a 3D-printed human being? A carbon copy.

[@drkaradymond]

Haha. Love this! I have a phone friend (started as a wrong number from an old man in a nursing home) who calls to tell me jokes. I will tell him this one :)

[@jenbloom6848]

Well done! The only jokes I remember involve wordplay.

[@fabiogfranco]

45:30 “One of the things that I have always explored, and I think this is very important, is the concept of “who are you?”, and the recognition of the authentic self. Now, the authentic self may be different in the convention of gender, etc. It's “who are you?”, and I think many autistic individuals will explore the sense of self deeper than others may. Others may do this briefly, and so on, but an autistic individual, often as a solitary pursuit, would explore the meaning of life, and why they don't fit in, and a whole range of things, and are much more self-analytical, and are looking for explanations. And so what happens is that the person has come to a decision after a lot of thought, that nobody else has listened into.” Wow! Another great insight! This explains why so many philosophers were probably autistic - like Schopenhauer and Wittgenstein for example. Amazing! Thank you for this wonderful interview with the most knowledgeable expert on Asperger’s in the world!

[@galespressos]

@Prof Tony Atwood is a treasure and so succinctly describes the situation as it is. People are different and the differences are not the problem but rather the way those are responded to and treated. Then I’d add, we can gain or loose each others’ value by how we perceive and respond and handle the differences. Differences can be treasures too,.

[@thexpax]

"Maja" is the hit of the show, I think, as Tony is his usual expert self. Maja I see as potentially our next Tony Attwood extraordinaire

[@catherinejames2734]

This has been, by far , the best discussion covering so many aspects of the challenge of being autistic in a neurotypical world that I’ve come across. Just as I’ve been struggling so much lately with anxiety and socialising as well as feeling angry towards peoples ignorance around it all. I’m 66years old now and just cannot keep masking its so draining and soul destroying. I’m completely happy in my own space, I’ve been more successful in life than most neurotypical people I know who apparently see me as gifted because I’m an artist and highly creative, so they think I’m ‘lucky’, which I find a really strange thing to say. They have no idea of how challenging it is for me to socialise and that I actually do love being alone and free to explore whatever I’m in the mood to do. The philosophy of Objectivism is quit helpful to me lately as guidance for how to be happy.

[@buggjohnson1648]

Hey, I know it's been 7 months since this episode came out, but the algorithm sent it, so today is the first I've seen of the show. Can anyone please, please tell me the name of the book mentioned at the end and the author? The best I can tell is "On Energy Accounting" by Maya someone? Or is it Dr Attwood? I can tell by what I've picked up about it that someone I know may be able to benefit tremendously by it. In researching autism as a potential explanation for some of my child's issues I've discovered that it is very likely that both my partner and I are autistic. For me it's like seeing a thousand puzzle pieces that made no sense suddenly all come into place, I just didn't know what I was looking at so I couldn't see where they went. For him it's more a matter of, well he has a job, and can talk to people, and "aren't we all just a bit odd in our own way?" (esp comparing others in our lives who we gravitated towards, but that's what the odd balls do is tend to find each other.) But he is medicated for anxiety, and he gets exhausted by things that perplex most people, and he's not as ok as he could be, but he just doesn't have the mental bandwidth right now to deep dive into all this like I am, so I think a book on that topic would be really helpful to him. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[@drkaradymond]

Hello@@buggjohnson1648 , I thought I replied to this recently but must have forgotten! Maja Toudal and Tony Attwood are currently writing this book - we will definitely post about it when it's released! :) I wonder if my blog post and video talk on late diagnosis may be helpful for your husband? www.karadymond.com/blog/late-diagnosis

[@user-tx4of8uw2k]

Very insightful discussion. As above, I’m a successful academic (not in psychology) in my sixties and have only recently uncovered my own autism. There were so many points that resonated for me - particularly what I now realise has been a lifelong obsession with respect for all human differences. If I can contribute to the community in any way, please get in touch. Many thanks for recording this discussion- I will look up your new book now.

[@buggjohnson1648]

Hey, I know it's been 7 months since this episode came out, but the algorithm sent it, so today is the first I've seen of the show. Can anyone please, please tell me the name of the book mentioned at the end and the author? The best I can tell is "On Energy Accounting" by Maya someone? Or is it Dr Attwood? I can tell by what I've picked up about it that someone I know may be able to benefit tremendously by it. In researching autism as a potential explanation for some of my child's issues I've discovered that it is very likely that both my partner and I are autistic. For me it's like seeing a thousand puzzle pieces that made no sense suddenly all come into place, I just didn't know what I was looking at so I couldn't see where they went. For him it's more a matter of, well he has a job, and can talk to people, and "aren't we all just a bit odd in our own way?" (esp comparing others in our lives who we gravitated towards, but that's what the odd balls do is tend to find each other.) But he is medicated for anxiety, and he get exhausted by things that perplex most people, and he's not as ok as he could be, but he just doesn't have the mental bandwidth right now to deep dive into all this like I am, so I think a book on that topic would be really helpful to him. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[@saskia3854]

I was so happy to hear Maja explain how important the tone is. Person first or identify first isn't that interesting to me, the tone is because that can tell me how the person sees autism and people on the spectrum.

[@DaveToneMusic]

Really wonderful discussion, thank you all 🤗💖

[@vynedvyne59]

Thank you❤

[@sunnylight5753]

Thank you ALL❤️🧠🩸

[@Dancestar1981]

I’ve been saying that all my life I should receive multiple oscars for my performances I’ve wanted to be a professional actress since I was 3

[@galespressos]

Yes! Same, from 5 or 6.

[@manyBlessings2all]

So are you? A professional actress?? 🌟 Or a Dance Star as your name here? I do hope you have been able to fulfil your dream, and if not yet then please do.. We cAn do these things... I say, to also encourage myself... 🙏 💖 🌟 🎶 🌸 ✨

[@buggjohnson1648]

Hey, I know it's been 7 months since this episode came out, but the algorithm sent it, so today is the first I've seen of the show. Can anyone please, please tell me the name of the book mentioned at the end and the author? The best I can tell is "On Energy Accounting" by Maya someone? Or is it Dr Attwood? I can tell by what I've picked up about it that someone I know may be able to benefit tremendously by it. In researching autism as a potential explanation for some of my child's issues I've discovered that it is very likely that both my partner and I are autistic. For me it's like seeing a thousand puzzle pieces that made no sense suddenly all come into place, I just didn't know what I was looking at so I couldn't see where they went. For him it's more a matter of, well he has a job, and can talk to people, and "aren't we all just a bit odd in our own way?" (esp comparing others in our lives who we gravitated towards, but that's what the odd balls do is tend to find each other.) But he is medicated for anxiety, and he gets exhausted by things that perplex most people, and he's not as ok as he could be, but he just doesn't have the mental bandwidth right now to deep dive into all this like I am, so I think a book on that topic would be really helpful to him. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[@WendyLMacdonald]

This was wonderful. Thank you. Congratulations on the upcoming book. 📚 Loved listening to all three of you.

[@messyjessynavigatestheworld]

Wonderful discussion! Thank you so much and thank the you for discussing the experience of anxiety and for the idea of energy accounting! And thank you for the personal stories all around it’s great to finally know that I’m not alone!

[@himbo754]

Greatly appreciated seeing Maja again, and Tony Attwood. Interesting conversation.

[@galespressos]

Right, that’s it, looking at the patterns and analysis of the patterns, then using that to be functional. A big challenge I’ve got with the patterns is what I consider dishonestly when people agree to something or say they will do something but maybe people consider that being friendly or are saying it to avoid a conflict or meant it at the time and completely forget it. That has caused extreme havoc. For Maja, you are doing so very well with the challenge of the burnout and/or depression, showing up anyway when you are dealing with the challenge now. Hoping you’ll be able to hibernate a while and recover from at least some of the exhaustion soon. The energy cost of coping is massive. It’s quite true that so-called neurotypical people don’t realise the extraordinary amount of effort, and in fact we are encouraged to be silent about our efforts, especially women but men too, and we want to be generous and don’t want to complain, and want to be responsible so we do our best (performance) and then hibernate to recover which of course nobody sees. Similarly, people with hidden physical disabilities may go through pain and not show it, or depression and such then may crumble in a ball to recover at home. Much more to say but super tired now.

[@galespressos]

Thank you to @Dr. Kara Dymond , @Maja Toudal , and @Tony Attwood. This has been so insightful, lovely, and so helpful. It has been put so sensitively and with recognition of what is without the judgements. An in,portent point was the need to learn beyond our own experience and self understanding. We might tend to focus on ourself and our experiences to understand others personalities and situations which is a mistake because we have so much to learn. It is helpful but we need to go beyond that and learn much more. Beside this, the pick up of energies and feelings from others is debilitating potentially. The ones who misinterpreted shut down as indicative of lack of feeling couldn’t be further off. The pick up of feelings is so intense that it can literally be debilitating. In my case I’ve had to leave the room or get out of a train car since the energy from people or a person there was too intense and wit was being absorbed like a sponge to the effect of causing a sick feeling. For selfish reasons as well as concern for the person I wanted that person to feel better and chill, including the people rushing aggressively with tension in the train. Any blank expression and comatose like stillness was from overwhelm, not lack of feeling.

[@drkaradymond]

I know what you mean - I absorb others' feelings and often feel theirs way before I recognize my own. And yes... I think as humans in general we are limited by our own experiences! Thank you for your support :)

[@WilliamFontaineJr]

What a beautiful conversation between such fine intelligent humans. Thank you for making this available to help our world be different.

[@richardward2469]

Hello Mr Atwood,I would like to thank you for you sharing your knowledge,I turned to you when I was on my way to receiving a diagnosis for Asperger’s,adhd and giftedness,well you are one of many but thank you very much ❤️❤️

[@galespressos]

I’m actually ashamed for people that they don’t appreciate others’ efforts or value them or consider that those efforts are strengths. We all have unique personalities, and certain aspects can be challenging in certain in situations or more helpful for other situations. Better awareness of our individual uniqueness and patterns can be helpful in how to function and be of more value to society and ourself.

[@mississippiatheistette8769]

I am so glad he talked about autism and prison and drug use. I feel the same way about drugs. I was a heroin addict for 12 years. I have been sober for 8 months. I understand why I must keep pushing for my sobreity, but I hate every minute of being sober. I went to prison. I did 1 year total, and it actually traunatized me. Staying sober now for my kids is my top priority, but I am miserable libing sober. I only do it because i would figuratively kill myself to make sure that my kids dont see me like that any more. It is so hard.

[@drkaradymond]

That sounds incredibly hard!

[@mississippiatheistette8769]

@@drkaradymond it is but ill be strong. I have support now. It was kinda there already. I just will not let myself deny healing anymore even though healing hurts.

[@JonBrase]

I think a big part of the reason the autistic community tends to prefer identity-first language is simply that it's often more natural to use. For individuals with language delay this reduces the needed processing, and due to our social issues, autistic individuals in general tend to run afoul of the PC police regardless of which political faction happens to be defining the political correctness de jure. While identity first is often more convenient, what I really want is the freedom to use whatever syntax and semantics that best fits the structure of the thing I'm saying, and to not have people around me bashing square pegs into round holes trying to be "polite" to me.

[@thexpax]

Dear Maja did not really reveal the author. Tony has been talking about "witches and fairies" and "Harry Potter" for so long, it has been easy to add 1 to 1 and get J K Rawlings. BTW, it is interesting that the publisher for Rawlings did not want to put a woman's name as authorship.

[@chillwinstonuk]

Thank you so much for this, you 3 beautiful human beings. This is fabulous, and so so much lands. There is a softness in this conversation, so real. I love that you have touched on the invisibility of autism, because of how the child learns to hide the true self, sometimes from everyone. I think of the child feels safe and that they have stability with the home, then there is the possibility of an unravelling. However if the child doesn't then even more masking. This is where we see the unique expression in every autistic person, influenced by so many environmental factors. There is something that I find fascinating that I'll share. The common pattern of adults receiving a diagnosis of ADHD in later life, and then post treatment and a period of emotional processing and acceptance, their Autistic self become much more aware to them. This has been my experience, and that of many friends. I was adamant that "I was definitely not autistic". Those people are but not me, I am too social, too this and too that. Oh how our perspective can change, and in an incredibly welcomed way. The feeling I am left with now is..."oh wow, there are so many other people like me. Who find the world noisy... Have a deep connection to mother nature Love to spend time alone Cut labels out of their clothing Feel like their head is going to explode when sitting at a function and waiting for the predictable "hello what's your name and what do you do for a living?" , whilst hearing all the sounds in the venue and longing to be in your nest and out of what feels like a complete waste of time Etc etc I also wonder about the following. The experience of looking back and seeing how many of your deepest connections have been with other Autistic and/or AuDHD people. I always thought that me having an issue with eye contact was because I was odd, or weird, paranoid even. I attributed it to that there was something wrong with me, maybe I was smoking too much weed as a teenager etc. However, now as a 47 year old man, I feel so free when sitting with Autistic friends because like me they don't want to stare into my eyes. Like me when they speak they look to the side or up/down. And that feels normal to me. I don't want to stare into someone's eyes, it feels so intrusive and like a boundary break. Also, when we think about many species of predatory mammals, human beings are warned not to stare at them and held eye contact. It is seen as a threat or a challenge. I walked out of a restaurant for the 1st time at the weekend because I couldn't handle the noise. I found it quite liberating because for the 1st time I was honouring my needs. The part about autistic adults working in the caring profession landed. I am an OT, and find that the feedback I get again and again and again is "you go above and beyond and have helped us more than anyone else before". This deep empathy however can be very taxing, I can feel so burnt out. I can get home and want the whole world to go away. Thank you, this conversation has really touched me

[@drkaradymond]

I could have written much of this myself - so much do I relate! I'm so proud of you for taking the space/break you needed and not pushing through as we have learned to do for so many things that are deeply uncomfortable.

[@fabiogfranco]

“Many of our deepest connections have been with other autistic people”. Yes! I really relate to that. Retrospectively, you realize that your best friends were also autistic - even if neither you or them knew you were autistic at the time. It’s uncanny how we were naturally drawn to each other. This occurs in romantic relationships as well.

[@JustHowItIs]

I never laughed so hard as I did when you stated Temple Grandin's quote because her stated opinion you quoted seems so correct of statement.

[@neridafarrer4633]

Being exposed to Drama class in late primary school to a total light bulb moment for me. It was so liberating to realise that I could pretend to be someone else as I was very very quiet and unable to make friends. I became good at drama and it was a lifeline. Watching movies has always been a special interest, as has reading. I survived my childhood and adolescence by burying my head in books. I was the kid who hid in the library in break times. I got into music performance; singing in particular, as a homeless teenager, as I was situationally mute but I got the opportunty to sing in a band (casting couch situation) and I thought I might be killed if I didn't jump at that situation. Being a homeless, autistic teen ( I didn't know I was autistic at the time) girl, I got raped a lot and after one of those I cut my wrist and ended up in a drs and he just prescribed me antidepressants and told me to "go and get a job". I couldn't say much, very poor at communicating and very minimal words but I had learnt how to act during late primary and high school so I thought I have to jump at this opportunity to sing because I can barely talk and there were very predatory men around and my parents were out of the picture. The man who gave me the singing job in his band was predatory as well. He was twice my age and anyway I got pregnant to him, 7 times. Had 7 children to him. Learnt to sing and that lead to me learning now to talk to people but I ended up with cptsd as he was emotionally cruel and narcissistic and threatened to keep my children from me if I ever tried to leave him. On realising I was probably not going to last much longer under those conditions I finally left, I met another autistic man, the parent of one of my son's best friend. He helped me leave my abusive relationship. Two of my sons are autistic, one has level 2 autism and the other is like me "gifted" "high functioning" and "ADHD-y". I am hoping to get a diagnosis from Tony Attwoods Brisbane clinic. I have contacted them online, waiting a response. I no longer sing much, but I got very good at that. I am fairly housebound. I have grandchildren now. I have good relationships with 6 out of the 7 of my children. I have 2 grandchildren. I adore them! The other son who doesnt talk to me is very aligned with his dad. I got a cptsd and a bpd diagnosis. I had an eating disorder for many many years. I smoked a lot of pot during the long term but very creative AND abusive relationship. But I don't now. I have a supportive relationship with the guy who "rescued" me. He is, clearly, an Aspie with the same phenotype as me and youngest son; "gifted" "traumatized" ASDy and ADHDy.

[@drkaradymond]

I am so glad you are in a better situation now. I am so sorry you were taken advantage of. You did not deserve that. (No one ever does!)

[@wolfdreams2000]

This is awesome, thank you!💜 I believe that I'm on the spectrum, and according to each AQ quiz I've taken in order to see if maybe I'm on the right road, all say "highly likely". I look forward to checking out the one Dr Tony created for us women, cuz im 61 and have struggled through finding ways to appear "normal".

[@drkaradymond]

Hello :) if it's helpful at all, here's my blog post on late diagnosis and a link to a template I created that helped me prepare for a discussion with the diagnostician. www.karadymond.com/blog/late-diagnosis

[@wolfdreams2000]

@@drkaradymond Thanks so much!

[@kayjay-kreations]

Congratulations

[@wolfdreams2000]

​@drkaradymond I have my 1st appointment for assessment in 2 days(Monday)and I'm nervous/anxious as heck(strange clinic and Dr), but I'm super grateful for all that you have helped with(the blog link above,etc). 💜 So Mon I'll know if he feels if I need an ASD assessment or not. My regular therapist dx me a few weeks ago with ADHD(combined type). Wheee, fun!😮😅

[@JamesDavis-ps6yy]

Hey, yeah, as a late-identified, relatively successful individual with relatively less trauma than many other autistic folks, I've had to deal with a good degree of impostor syndrome, as I didn't always have the same experiences or degree of traits and it took the recognition that I had better support and the degree to which good support matters before I was able to put a lot of that to rest

[@Psychobellic]

Holly crap I've been focusing so much on how my life could have ended up if I found out about my Asperger earlier... Haven't thinked about being institutionalized if I were born on earlier times...

[@AnnInghamlife-goals]

This is one of the most helpful pieces of information so far in my discoveries into Autism. I cried at the discussion of insults rejection and criticism. I laughed out load when Tony said "people say thinking outside the box, what box? " it tied together a criticism I was told I had no common sense. Its true. There is little about my thinking that is common. My thinking is innovative, creative and novel.

[@JustHowItIs]

I knew my daughter was autistic before the doctors did. I saw her aversion to certain constencies of food when she was a baby as I fed her. I saw her ways of noticing well, the rhythms of music the way I as an autistic person do when she was a baby (her musical ability of rhythm nearly matched mine. I play piano, guitar, and violin. And I sing broadway music as hobbies). And these traits had me wonder back then if she was like me, too (if she was also autistic). But maybe as a parent, I noticed it so soon about her because I know the signs of autism, already, because I am autistic.

[@julzee111]

Regarding the terminology, it’s great to finally see, and I think I’m safe in assuming we’ve got a room full of liberals here, that it’s suddenly recognizing that it’s not about the terminology it’s about the intent behind it. Isn’t it interesting that it takes something close to you to open your eyes to that profound notion that most of us have understood for quite some time.

[@buggjohnson1648]

Hey, I know it's been 7 months since this episode came out, but the algorithm sent it, so today is the first I've seen of the show. Can anyone please, please tell me the name of the book mentioned at the end and the author? The best I can tell is "On Energy Accounting" by Maya someone? Or is it Dr Attwood? I can tell by what I've picked up about it that someone I know may be able to benefit tremendously by it. In researching autism as a potential explanation for some of my child's issues I've discovered that it is very likely that both my partner and I are autistic. For me it's like seeing a thousand puzzle pieces that made no sense suddenly all come into place, I just didn't know what I was looking at so I couldn't see where they went. For him it's more a matter of, well he has a job, and can talk to people, and "aren't we all just a bit odd in our own way?" (esp comparing others in our lives who we gravitated towards, but that's what the odd balls do is tend to find each other.) But he is medicated for anxiety, and he get exhausted by things that perplex most people, and he's not as ok as he could be, but he just doesn't have the mental bandwidth right now to deep dive into all this like I am, so I think a book on that topic would be really helpful to him. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[@drkaradymond]

Maja Toudal and Tony Attwood are currently co-writing this book :) Not yet out, but it will be fantastic (I beta read it) for a lot of people, not just autisitics :) I have found diagnosis has given me permission to give myself more breaks, forgive myself when things are harder for me than most people, and find workarounds. I don't know if this is helpful but I have both a talk (at the bottom) and a blog post on late diagnosis: www.karadymond.com/blog/late-diagnosis

[@galespressos]

😅 Energy Accounting! How electrically illuminating! Burnout protective!

[@redpalex]

I can tell the women in this video are masking so hard, it's so exhausting not being able to be yourself... I feel tired by just looking at them. I'd like to get free from this life long prison. Thank you for the video.

[@gillb9222]

It must be fascinating spending 50 years in a chaging field. I wonder if there is any guilt around holding beliefs (that were strongly held by professionals) 50 years ago or whether there is a pride is pushing new research through or both. Was there a strong reaction to trying to change the discourse, did he feel like a conspiracy theorist? I'd love to have that conversation. I look back on being a teaching assistant working with autistic children and I feel sick at how I was forced to treat those children because it was "best practice". I have been diagnosed as depressed and anxious foe the last 6 years and was diagnosed (during my ADHD assessment) as having CPTSD within 10 minutes because I happen to have been abused as a child. I have had to have a private diagnosis for autism as my GP couldn't see through my mask and refused to have me assessed. I'm 53 and have been masking my whole life so of course I am good at masking and I also know I will not be taken seriously if I don't mask. Autistic people, being autistic, are not acceoted as advocates for themselves, they need to mask to be taken seriously. In fairness to my GP I didn't realise I was autistic either as my ADHD is obvious and there are so many common symptoms that I didn't realise. I didn't see that my AFAB children were autistic either. My AMAB eldest was more obvious because he fitted the male stereotype of Autism but even my youngest AMAB who is 17 had symptoms as a child that I didn't see. In honesty he is more obviously autistic now than his siblings are. As a 53 year old with an eldest child of 23 I have seen so much change since my son was born

[@richardward2469]

I only got my diagnosis this year,I’m 53😬😬how much fun😳😂💖😡🙂

[@JustHowItIs]

Who says one shouldn't read Psychology books as a teen? I did when I was in high school.

[@AnnInghamlife-goals]

Me too!!!

[@priscillawagner5156]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@saethman]

Thank you, Maja. I'm a (weird/non-typical) neurotypical and we can be mean also to other neurotypicals, hence we too mask (to a certain degree - not to the level you do). If only we neurotypicals dared to take of our masks, then we might be comfortable enough to accept people with autism not masking. Life sure would be easier and better if people would skip all the masks and just accept people as they are

[@JustHowItIs]

I beg to differ. Why? Because I DO suffer from autism (I suffer from sensory overload that tends to be a part of autism).

[@MerrilyMerrilyMerrily]

Thank you Tony, -it’s not me! It’s them! (what is wrong with everybody?)

[@MrNinjaFish]

The diversity thing I think is a bit of a broad statement, there are still conflicting differences between groups that you have to compensate for.

[@artursinila]

Was it really filmed back in August???

[@drkaradymond]

Yep. We recorded two-thirds of the season in the summer (I am a teacher) so I could get a head start on editing before coming back to full-time work. I tend to spend at least a day working on each episode so it is much harder to do throughout the school year. I am trying to practice what we preach and build in restoration time on weekends :D

[@dmcsunshine1]

I couldn’t and still can’t speak up for myself. If the words would have come forth every thing would have been different but they did not

[@drkaradymond]

Relatable!

[@think2positive]

ok. i know this is against the grain. but as someone that is in the process of diagnosis, i think these extra terms are actually destabalizing me and possibly other people on the spectrum. i really constantly feel like i'm losing my footing, like everything always escapes my grip. then there are people that want to also take away(on porpouse or not) something as fundamentally grounding as definition. some of the people that propagate the new language do not even want to make gender more complecated, no they also try to do that with sex. It is possible that this is not me, but I have a strong need for things i can cling on to. edit: i would be intresested in finding out how many people on the spectrum, are actually really conservative, because it brings them much craved stability. saying this as probably the most conservative person i know.

[@jackiebuttnor8410]

Hi. I get that you are looking for the comfort of your definition of things like gender and/or sexuality. The problem is. Your personal definition is not now nor has it ever actually been accurate. Just like Autistics have always existed, whether or not they have been acknowledged and despite being discriminated against. Those who are not heterosexual, and traditionally gender identified have always been here. The fact that some refuse to admit these facts does not negate our reality.

[@thexpax]

Yes, in society I have to call myself asperger (my true diagnosis on March 12th, 2013) to get some respect and not autistic or be largely disrespected in Canada. You see, it is largely known an asperger trait or rule was average to above average IQ. That rule happens to flatter both dear 💚 Maja and myself. Sorry, I do not know your life history, Kara, to know 💚 if it flatters you !

[@JayakrishnanNairOmana]

At 14 he immersed himself in books meant for adults. He devised objective tests and applied on his classmates, to much social chagrin. His son is classic autistic, he has the genes he passed to his son. This dude is not only a walking encyclopedia on aspies, but it took 30 years to diagnose his own son, and still hasnt diagnosed himself yet after 51 years.

[@fabiogfranco]

It is an interesting theory, that Attwood might be autistic himself. He is hyperfocused on autism and his communication style is considered unique and idiosyncratic. His empathy towards autistic people also seems to sprout from deep personal experience, rather than mere professional or theoretical knowledge.

[@ninetales1234]

They spend from about 6:00 - 11:00 touching on autism being "mistaken" for schizophrenia. It's really quite silly and a bit dishonest in my opinion- Attwood talks as though he's discussing an error of FACT, but he's really talking about concepts that are SUBJECTIVE. How can someone allege an error, when the so-called diagnosis is just *on a person's say-so* , and not on anything tangible, directly observable, or anything that can be measured in reality? Attwood is not dumb and he knows this. He's clutching his pearls about these "errors" when the *real* reason for these "improper diagnoses" is that there is no objective test for autism, schizophrenia, or BPD. BPD, Schizophrenia, and Autism all hinge on the same premise: a group of people classifying them in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual. None of these alleged illnesses have the same falsifiability or measurability that genuine scientific phenomena have. So, this idea that the autism was "incorrectly labeled as something else", is entirely erroneous, when you realize that these concepts (both the autism and the "something else") are just the subjective analysis of psuedoscientists, and not based on anything objective.

[@kayjay-kreations]

Human first brilliant

[@osip7315]

autism schizophrenia always blurred yet clarity separates

[@MrDaydreamer1584]

"... ASD level three those who don't speak my conception of this is a mind-body division and inner thought some language is occurring but they can't put their brain into gear with their body to speak also to use gesture..." That's not correct. The reason they don't communicate is because, from their perspective, other people don't exist. The lack of speech stems from an obliviousness to other people, not to a "mind-body division."

[@maverickstanding5733]

Poppycock