Ep. 145 - CX vs. ELD-X

[@jonfarrar9666]

My grandson and I have taken a few whitetails with the 7mm-08 139gr. CX superformance ammo. Recovered 3 bullets from north to south or quartering to shots. One was at 48 yards, one was 275 yards, and the other was somewhere in between. Retained bullet weights are 132,136, and 138gr. All 3 look pretty much the same. Perfect mushrooms as wide as any other types of bullets I've recovered over the years. They're my new favorite. 😊

[@daveknowles3055]

Be nice if the boxes and descriptions contained velocity ranges for expansion. That would help when picking bullet weights for calibers so that velocities fall into range for proper expansion.

[@In-The-Wild-Outdoors]

100%. And add the caveat that the shooter should verify velocity before use.

[@bobmcmillen4502]

@@daveknowles3055 if you research the info is out there. Eldx’s 1600 fps. Mono’s are 2000 fps. Bergers are 1800 fps. Those are minimum’s for expansion. ABLR says 1300 fps.

[@bobmcmillen4502]

I use a ballistic calculator and I know what the distance is with all my guns that I still have the terminal ballistics for a kill. If you haven’t done that you’re probably going be surprised. Most of my guns are deadly out to 1000 yards with an Eldx. A lot farther than I’d shoot an animal. Even my 30-06 with a 178 Eldx with 2932 fps at the muzzle still has 1600 fps at over 1000 yards. These are numbers hunters should know, But if you’re hunting at normal distances you’re probably ok. The lowly 6.5 Creedmoor w 143 Eldx is going 1600 fps past 1000 yards.

[@mr.mr.3301]

Here in South Carolina there are a lot of individuals that are not happy with the precision Hunter line. Mostly because they shoot animals under 100 yards and don’t get a pass-through. Precision Hunter is super accurate, but it almost needs to be renamed to long range Hunter. if you switch them to American Whitetail, the performance is what they’re looking for. As well as the CX. The average person who hasn’t dove into bullet construction simply goes off of marketing on the box sadly. I did the same several years ago with season XP and hated it.

[@jacklewis3444]

great comment. Most people in Texas are better off shooting the classic interlock bullets.

[@scottgreen6538]

So... you guys are down in South Carolina shooting Whitetail? You should probably get the ammo that says Whitetail on the box.

[@TheGunNerd]

@@mr.mr.3301 yeah fuck deer season xp that bullet sucks

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

​@@scottgreen6538 Precision hunter has NO "animals on the box" .So....

[@dustintschirhart4450]

I prefer a complete energy transfer into game which ELD-X is known for and if I don't want to trail the game post shot (not many run anyway) then I know I need to knock em on the noggin... they don't take another step after reorganizing their cranium.

[@rmbettac]

I finally gave in and loaded some CX. Very impressive bullet when you need something tough. For deer, cup and core is all I need!

[@tdp7244]

Hi Seth and Team, just some feedback from the field here : I'm a South African hunter and have been using ELD-X exclusively in my .270 Win (For longer range, open country) and 30-06 (for bushveld hunting, mostly under 200 yards) for the past 4 years. In this time I have taken lots of species at various distances and angled with both the 145gr (207) and 200gr (30-06) and they all performed very well with the animals (Warthog, Impala, Blesbuck, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Kudu) dropping within 30 yards of not on the spot. Notes : 1) I've had the ELD-X 200gr from a 30-06 make almost no entry & exit on an Impala ewe at 50 yards. We found the animal 10 yards from where the shot was taken, but amazingly the entry & exit was only the smallest little "wet spot". I've found the exit on most my shots quite miniscule. No complaints because the bullet did its job, just found it interesting. 2) Shot a big Blue wildebeest bull right on the shoulder, quartering too, and dropped him in his tracks. No exit would, but not necessary. 3) I've only been able to recover 2 200gr rounds and on both the cup & core seperated, but as per your point : This happened after the bullet had done it's job, so no complaints there. 4) The uniformity and accuracy of the ELD-X bullets are amazing. Individually measured 1000 ELD-X 200gr rounds and only found 0.001" variation in base to Ojive.

[@hornady]

Thanks for the feedback! Awesome stuff!

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

I'm a firm believer in have one gun and shoot it well. Thanks to you guys and your fancy PRC rounds I now have two guns. By all means have one drop chart per gun and now exactly how it's going to shoot. Mix the ammo and mix the results.

[@guyminer3168]

Great discussion! I've taken game with both the ELD-X and the CX and have been impressed with each.

[@tyb3938]

Five years moved west started hunting elk. In 5 years we shot 6 elk. First one was a six, dropped in tracks, second was a five dropped in tracks both with 139 interlock sp. lost one with a broadhead and then gunsmith recommended eldx and they shot great, but… lost a large six w 150eldx who dropped in tracks, upside down for 15 minutes then ran away like nothing wrong w him, this year lost a huge 6 and a monster 6 with 162eldx and 212eldx, both hit hard. The 212eldx dropped in tracks, but got back up and got away w little to no blood trail, just like the one we dropped in tracks with 150eldx. Yesterday shot and recovered 4 212eldx and same range into soft talcum powder dirt. 3 of 4 turned into lead dust and totally separated. I have lost faith in Hornady bullets for hunting, switching to accubond as I no longer have faith

[@REDNECKROOTS]

Im still and will always be a NOSLER partitions and NOSLER ballastic tip shooter. Ive always had the best experience w these bullets. I tried the eldx hunting whitetail, i wasn't impressed. It completely came apart, no exit wound. Hell of a time finding the deer that ran 200 yards. Hit perfect dbl lung, too. The ballastic tip gives incredible wound channels and ive gotten an exit almost every deer i killed. Never tried the cx because why would i? The nosler partitions are perfect for the close range timber hunting i do. They always work 💯.

[@Sqwan2]

There is something wrong with your story. A deer hit double lung won’t go 200 yard. And an ELDX will do its job even though I prefer ECX. You might like Nosler better, but ELDX will do its job.

[@jwoak0913]

My Elk hunt starts 11/29 here in Az and I can’t freakin wait! But I got happy as a kid at Christmas when I was headed up I-17 to Flagstaff yesterday and a pickup truck flew by with a nice Bull in the bed! Now I can wait even less.

[@rms0719]

perfect timing, getting ready for a deer hunt for me and oryx hunt for the kiddo and have been going back and forth what direction to go. as always, great podcast once again.

[@hornady]

Good luck!

[@Godfryness]

Great podcast! I really appreciate all this info. I love copper but I also don’t shoot far for my personal beliefs.

[@jfess1911]

I find it interesting that the choice was an ELD-X for the hunt in Alaska since according to the table, the 190 CX in a 300 PRC has something like a 600+ yard expansion range. Was he shooting a shorter barrel or did the rifle just shoot the ELD-X that much better?

[@heathharry8424]

@hornady the Interbond projectile was better then both CX and ELD-X, it's real let down to hunters you no longer offer a bonded projectile....hint hint, wink wink, the ELD-X in bonded configuration would be a great way to re-offer a bonded projectile.....once my stock pile of Interbond run out, guess i'll have no choice but to start using Nosler Accubond....

[@jeffb.3052]

This is all good and well, but where's the twist rate requirements for the CX on the website. I checked several cx bullets and no min twist listed.

[@davidelliott1117]

Yep, all boxes should have recommended twist rate and recommended minimum performance velocity.

[@NealKennedy-t6q]

Thinking of a 6 Creed build for pronghorn hunting, but have it double as a whitetail gun. I usually have 50-100 yard shots, I think the 6 creed with the 90gr CX will blow through the deers at that range and make for quick recoveries. Assuming I don’t just go high shoulder. Looking forward to that pairing.

[@NealKennedy-t6q]

Just to clarify, it would be the deer gun for my small son

[@inky8123]

ELD-M will be even quicker recoveries..

[@FC2ESWS]

Get the 95 LRX, much better BC

[@jasonshults368]

I've not been able to find accuracy with the 95 LRX, and I've not talked to anyone else who has had good performance from them on targets.

[@1bobharvey]

I got a full pass through on my first deer around 04 with a .243 (6mm) and a 80 gr barnes at roughly 600 yards. No range finders in those days. You should be more than fine with a 6 creed on deer and anelope. Hell at 400 and in I would suspect you can high shoulder them and still get full penetration with a monolithic bullet like the cx since its a harder alloy of copper than barnes from what I understand. Honestly, for your kid a 6 arc would be better as it's gonna be less spicy on the recoil.

[@Mafiaal1]

Man i used the 103 ELDX in 6mm this past weekend and sure enough exactly what you all spoke about happened as i was able to recover the bullet, and the lead core fell out once i cleaned it off.

[@MyHuntingJournal]

Seth, you were right originally it was the Backcountry hunting podcast, not the hunting the backcountry for JVB

[@davidlaney8254]

Much better opening and getting on point quickly. Illustrations and examples of the expansion characteristics at the most common and extended distances of the ELD-X would have been very helpful. Very informative video.

[@chasehunt6497]

Google eldx whitepaper. It’s informative.

[@lookoutnw]

I have a new 300 Win Mag X-Bolt Max LR and I decided 180g CX and 200g ELD-X after listening and researching for a few months. I reload. Both shoot with perfection. I have to get to a range where I can have a paper target at 400 - 500 yards to see what the difference will be in trajectory. I am anxious to see what the differences will be. Here in Arizona we have some long shooting to be done, but also shorter range too. Hornady is tops in my book. I have a myriad of calibers and systems that I have reloaded. Thanks Hornady for great products

[@peterconnan5631]

Very interesting, but it seems to me one needs a fair amount of muzzle velocity to reap the benefits of either of these bullets. However, I do have a serious question: how does one find out what the design intent of a given bullet is? Some are obvious, but I feel some of the others (like the mentioned .308) are less obvious. Expanding on that, it would be great if the recommended minimum and maximum impact velocities for each bullet was listed on the website and the box.

[@waynemensen4252]

Finally, an explanation for the misinterpretation of case separation on the eld-x. Continuous expansion! If you've gotten the penetration, it's not separation. Thank you.

[@davidlaroche8928]

Great podcast on explaining the differences between the two bullet constructions. Unfortunately its impossible to please everyone and their opinions. There is no perfect hunting bullet but Hornady has managed to get the closest I've seen and used.

[@jasonshults368]

There are small "boutique" makers who are making perhaps better designs, depending on what you are after when hunting. I am happy to use any and all designs, from self-cast to every expanding design by every maker.

[@doylethorn9251]

Have you discussed if the CX bullets have any accuracy issues being shot over the top of regular jacket copper? I have personally seen a dramatic accuracy difference when cleaning all guilding copper out before shooting the monolithic bullets.

[@csagers45sagers2]

Love Hornady bullets killed a lot of things with them.

[@richardfitzsimmons5244]

The eldx shoots good. My load is clocking 2800 out of a 6.5 creedmoor. I do not shoot the shoulders. But it punches right through the lungs.

[@EasternMountainHunters]

Just me personally if I’m going to bear country with a 300 PRC I want that 190gr CX

[@newscoulomb3705]

The other issue is legality. We're seeing more and more mandates for lead-free bullets, which makes CX Hornady's only option for hunting in states like California.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

CX bullets ooen up WAY too slowly. They are GREAT if you like runners and lost animals.

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@JamesClark-lw6swyet other people say the opposite, have you ever used a CX or are you just repeating something you heard from someone that prefers a different brand?

[@edcrowell4320]

You guys should consider making a cx bullet for the 450 bm. Straight wall cartridges are becoming popular. The ftx is far less then par! 200 grn cx bullet please!

[@jeffreywilson690]

I live the old amax in 6mm , last deer was with a 338/06 with a 285 grain eldm

[@mryang3644]

Why dont u guys Recorrect the 7prc Ballistics on the ammo box.. We get that it was said out loud, but the real answer or solution to the drama is your advertising. Just fix the numbers onthe ammo box..Plain and simple.... or find a better powder that can beat the Old fps..

[@laxwyo1]

after shooting 30cal 190cx and liking it better than 212eldx, I switched my 26cal to 130cx from 143s. Like them a lot.

[@Accuracy1st]

If Hornady kept the exterior of the ELDX bullet the same but converted the interior to mimic the Federal Terminal Ascent, even if you didn't bond the front core, you'd have a near perfect hunting bullet. Or simply put, make it like an AFrame or Partition inside. Personally I've not experienced a negative outcome using ELDX but have minimal kills with them

[@jwoak0913]

I use Hornady bullets for LR training and competition. For hunting on Muleys & Elk I use Terminal Ascent, Accubond, and E-Tips.

[@Accuracy1st]

@@jwoak0913 I'm hoping for first deer with 155 TA in 280AI or the 200 TA in my 300WSM-long this season. I've tagged several deer with ABs and a couple with Etips.

[@jwoak0913]

Nice. TA’s are my go to since they came out in my 308. I use E-tips when I hunt in Ca. With my 308. And 260gr Accubonds in my 375 H&H. If I could choose just one hunting bullet for everything here in Az, it would be the TA’s in any cartridge.

[@dhexcavating1558]

The Superformance cx 6.5 creed is amazing all around. Building a tikka super light this will be my number one choice for white tail

[@shanerhodes925]

In my opinion, bonded bullets kind are in the middle of the cup and core and copper. They drive just a little deeper than standard lead core. But not like copper bullets. But you get good deployment of the nose like a standard. So that was always my thing with them. I hunt close up and sometimes the shit I get isn't always perfect now do I have ten mins to take it. So I like the extra penetration of a bonded bullet . But they are getting hard to find . My personal favorite was the bonded bear claw. Which now would be the north fork bullet, but those things cost an arm and a leg so they're out of the question. So how come you do not want to blurr the lines and keep the interbond?? Seems like a good bullet.

[@TheGunNerd]

At what velocity does the .224 55 gr cx expand to at least 2x expansion? Also, why does that bullet omit the polymer tip?

[@jasonshults368]

The tip would make the projectile too long for standard seating depth.

[@TheGunNerd]

@@jasonshults368 ah, ok! Thanks

[@andywilson5049]

Does the CX prefer bullet jump like the Barnes X bullet? 50 thousands or so?

[@jasonshults368]

As a rule, yes.

[@andywilson5049]

@@jasonshults368 Thank you,the Barnes book tells you this. I've not seen anything in the Hornady book about minimum seating death for the cx

[@Triggertarzan]

Hearing Seth quote macho man Randy savage with that mustache was the best part of this podcast

[@Impala427bigblock]

Will there be a CX offered for loading in 450 Bushmaster? That's my dream!

[@hantusmostert]

Hornady and Berger makes great plinking bullets. For Hunting, Go Nosler

[@davidelliott1117]

Seems like Nosler managed to do a bonded long range bullet. Yes, they are expensive, but they are good too. Fair enough to say that the Hornady ELDX bullets are more affordable. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@coastghost1649]

Eld-x through my 7mmRM grenade, the CX have great penetration and weight retention

[@learnaswegofarm2227]

Hey there! Enjoying, and learning so much off your podcast here!!! How do we request a topic?

[@hornady]

[e-mail] or drop a comment here

[@jfess1911]

Do the CX bullets follow the old rules of thumb of 1000ft-lbs for deer and 1500ft-lbs for ElK? Can those numbers be dropped a little as long as the velocity is over 2000 fps?

[@hornady]

Not a big fan of the old rules of thumb

[@jfess1911]

@@hornady Many hunters rely on rules of thumb to purchase rifles and ammo. What should be used to replace them? Please recall that, not too long ago, Hornady even had its own H.I.T.S. system to help customers determine which cartridges and bullets would be effective on different types of game. IIRC, sectional density and momentum were important components. I seem to recall that Hornady dropped HITS about the time the lower-density GMX bullets were introduced.

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@jfess1911 those old rules of thumb worked when all the bullets were big hunks of lead with very little difference, with modern projectile engineering it’s about picking a projectile designed to do what your wanting. Those rules will still work, but you’re going to end up with a bigger cartridge or bullet then what’s actually necessary chasing that arbitrary number.

[@jfess1911]

@@jaydunbar7538 Thank you.

[@lelandwyse8543]

Great information and podcast, for my experience's in hunting I prefer a bullet that dumps all of it's energy into the game being hunted. I don't like or care for a complete pass through of a game animal. To me a complete pass thru means to much energy lost & I realize the hunter has a better blood trail to follow, but I also realize that a bullet that dumps it's energy in the animal the hunter can walk to the downed animal, w/o trailing it usually, or can see it. I've hunted Deer, & Black bear in Michigan. The shot placement is the 1st most important. Just a little side note I am 77 years old & have hunted 60 years.

[@blindboyjonny]

You are misinformed, my friend. You stood behind the rifle that delivered that same energy and it didn’t knock you over. What makes you think that the deer is going to suffer any more of that energy than you did. Deeper penetration means more damage. Exiting out the other side is just gravy.

[@laxwyo1]

@@blindboyjonny you're both wrong. Dumping energy too fast means lost penetration. Not expanding and carrying through animal is wasted energy. Carrying through is preferred imo but back side hide is probably best.

[@jjgriffin3275]

6 ARC - shooting whitetail at 65 yards - here are the bullets that i have Loaded - 80cx, 90cx, 90 eldx, 95 sst - which should i use? I shoot behind shoulder for 2 lung/heart shot

[@jasonshults368]

Any/all. They will all work just fine, but the SST would be my choice for

[@jjgriffin3275]

@@jasonshults368 im sure they will, but w/ a 65 yard shot whuch is pretty close i do not want a bullet that will explodeon impact. the Hornady guys just said the ELDX is meant for 200+ yards. so im thinking not the eldx and more cx. i have shot 2 whitetail bucks w/ sst both at 130 yards and the SST worked AMAZING. just curious which of their billet line for 6mm would work best at 65 yards.

[@stevenbaker572]

Where do handloaders find data for the CX ? I have purchased the last 2 manuals and looked for an online resource but am not finding anything.

[@CB-68-westcreations]

Being an engineer and a jeweler who makes jewelry the old school way by hand, I can imagine some of the processes that might be used to make these projectiles, and I haven't seen anyone talk about doing it in practice. So anyone else who has figured out some of these techniques, like i suspect Hornedy has, is going to have a much better time keeping things consistent. The subject Kind of reminds me of the people who said you can't make a silver bullet fly right. That's genuine hogwash. A pure silver bullet can fly just as well as any piece of copper, it's just too darn expensive. Copper and silver have a lot in common.

[@johnmarken3945]

If loading for a gas gun, say 6mm arc on deer size and traditional range or short, would you say to go to ELD-X due to the reduced muzzle velocity (expect 2500)?

[@jasonshults368]

I would. But I have used light varmint projectiles on deer at reduced velocities for my kids quite a bit. Works great. Soft projectiles become "controlled-expansion" projectiles at moderate velocities, such as what you're running.

[@josojoso1974]

Eldx is far from perfect bullet!

[@jasonshults368]

Hornady's version of perfect is whatever they can sell.

[@novicereloader]

That ELDX (143gr in 6.5CM) hitting spine on a pronghorn at 2400 fps left a wound best described as unnerving.

[@mattturner6017]

Ah! I get it. It hit the spine, it removed nerve tissue. It "un-nerved" the animal. Solid pun.

[@novicereloader]

@mattturner6017 thanks. I was beginning to think the joke missed the mark.

[@Sqwan2]

I grew up with lead free bullets and I think they are better. And for me it was always simple. Get a bullet, make it go at least 3000ft/s and you are done. Works for every bullet I know. And don’t shoot 500 yards. Normally you can get within 200 or at least 300. For most dear you can wiggle their tail without getting noticed.

[@El69Fuego]

Would love to see a 100-130gr .264 ELD-X for my 6.5 Grendel

[@joesabedra8792]

My 6.5cre 143/147 ELDs have a slight prouder weight difference by .2-.4 grains but I can shoot them interchangeably with less than .5” of difference.

[@joesabedra8792]

I meant in powder weight. I reload.

[@Yelladog78]

Whitetail are easy to kill, a cup & core bullet is all you need if you take a decent shot. I guess bigger game or distance beyond 300 yards these higher tech bullets have their place

[@ipirqinuarak7142]

Why did you discontinued .338 250gr and 285gr BTHP ?

[@chadillac95]

There's a national forest in Northern Nebraska, up by valentine, and the first time i saw the sign for it, i laughed and said i didn't know Nebraska had enough trees for a national forest

[@mr.mr.3301]

I’d love a bonded eldx. Call it an eldb

[@sfroutdoors4014]

Ablr fills that roll well. They probably did away with the bonded scene because nosler has such a good hold on it. I think something that has more long range ballistics character in something similar to the partition or terminal ascent would be a real success. The monolithic bullets that are out there just require way too much velocity for longer distances and the eldx and sst style are too explosive for those close encounters. Most of my rifle hunting scenarios are anywhere from 50-500yds and I haven’t had one walk away from an eldx or sst but man they just make a dang mess!

[@mr.mr.3301]

@@sfroutdoors4014 that is true and I’ve never seen a pass through under 100 yards. My go to for most things are federal fusion.

[@sfroutdoors4014]

ya I like the fusions but haven’t had quite as good of accuracy out of them as others. Really looking forward to the new fusion tipped stuff. Might be just what we’re looking for!

[@LegacyOutdoors88]

@@sfroutdoors4014That is correct I spoke with Seth last year about this because I liked the Interbonds. He mentioned that the bonding process vs price became a factor as well as they really wanted to push this eld-x and CX bullets.

[@davidzakrzewicz707]

@@sfroutdoors4014

[@jrhunt414]

Why is load data the same in the manual for all bullets of the same weight regardless of construction?

[@jasonshults368]

You're supposed to work up loads starting low and watching for pressure signs.

[@jrhunt414]

@@jasonshults368 then I might as well not buy a book written by engineers and balisticians with a lab and piezoelectric gages. If you see pressure signs, you’re probably over the pressure spec. Brass isn’t always the first thing to fail or yield in all guns and chamberings when pressure exceeds spec. I think the CX bullet should have its own data like copper bullets do in every other manuals and like Barnes (their biggest competitor) does in their data.

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@jrhunt414 your still supposed to work up the loads and every manufacturer recommends starting low and working up simply do to variations in the firearms. As you say they did the testing with all the gear, if you’re going to blindly trust the data they provide then what’s the problem with trusting the data that they did provide?

[@laxwyo1]

130cx and 190cx have their own pages

[@tbo2307]

The difficulty of making the IB… well, Norma make the Bondstrike - that is just as accurate a bullet as the ELD-X.

[@jacobmullins3644]

Cx vs gmx would be a great vid

[@janukrause8728]

Can you guys test A tip bullets for hunting? At different fps to see what performance comes with it people dont want to change loads just to go hunt al the time..

[@jfess1911]

In an earlier podcast they talked a lot about the disadvantages of match bullets for hunting. Check out Episode 64 at 49 minutes. Although mostly they talk about BTHP match bullets, they mention their own tipped match bullets. The biggest issue is inconsistent performance since the jacket and core were not designed to open up into a symmetrical mushroom. They don't work the same time after time. If they don't open evenly they might not track straight inside the animal. Steve Hornady (Big Boss) apparently doesn't like match bullets for hunting.

[@milesn3173]

There are no core retention features on A-Tip bullets, as well as thin jackets. What we've seen in gel is typically similar to ELDM, however with up to 4" of pencil/neck before expansion begins. It's very inconsistent how much neck there will be. The polymer tip bullets begin expansion immediately.

[@Josh-uf1rv]

I can tell you that the A-tips and M’s are exceptional hunting bullets. They will expand at lower velocities at distance and closer ranges wreck internals. Meat loss is very minimal regardless what people say. I’ve killed a lot of animals with them and they’re great. Don’t fall into the marketing gimmick with “hunting” and “match” bullets.

[@jfess1911]

@@Josh-uf1rv I know that the 6.5 Grendel guys like the ELD-M, but their velocities are relatively low.

[@Josh-uf1rv]

@@jfess1911it’s marketing they can’t sell more bullets if you only have one kind. “Match” bullets are consistent and devastating every time if impact velocity is above 1600

[@buddyleeson4529]

What is would like to know is does hornady 140 grain in 30-06

[@georgeclarke4235]

Unfortunately, this podcast is becoming a marketing podcast. I like and use a lot of Hornady bullets and equipment. The 25 cal 134 eldm is great and much cheaper than Berger. My 25 Creed and 25 PRC loves em.

[@brodiewright7962]

Really have to agree, they need to take notes on the vortex podcast. It’s almost rare to hear them talk scopes.

[@jeffb.3052]

It's Hornady, of course this podcast is all about marketing. I really like many of them and just close those I don't. Mostly just remember when they are talking about their products it's marketing and take it with a grain o salt.

[@Adamhawk1994]

Shut up

[@RMAC0316]

Hard to beat a bonded bullet. Just seems like too many inconsistencies with these eldx bullets.

[@jasonshults368]

Let me guess: you hunt whitetails at less than 200 yards.

[@RMAC0316]

Ahh yes. Another imbecile who can’t stand a dissenting opinion.

[@lycheeznuts]

Huh. Why would you want a narrower wound channel?

[@wesleyherring9870]

I’m on the eldx train . Great podcast as always. I want a podcast on how you chamber your barrels. I have been a machinist for 35 years and know there is more than one way to skin a cat but to see how you guys chamber would be great.

[@chrispittman4826]

Glad to see hornady addressing the not so great aspect of the eldx. It was advertised as a bullets that performs well at all ranges but that simply isnt true. I have not had good look at "closer" ranges. Shot a deer with impact velocity around 2450 fps from my 6.5 cm and no pass though. Same scenario they spoke about with bullet under off side hide. He ran prob 80 yards with zero blood. Yes i found him but was not impressed. Id say eldx is reserved for longer ranges and monometal or interlock for more moderate ranges. Eldx has a purpose but just know what to expect.

[@gettosurfer]

Can you cup and core, or bond, bismuth to a copper jacket? Mass is closer to copper, but could be manufactured more like lead. Benefit of being non toxic marketed and similar manufacturing to traditional lead jacketed ammunition.

[@jasonshults368]

Bismuth is expensive.

[@milesn3173]

Not very malleable. Casting is pretty much the only way to form it. I've played with some lead alternatives but nothing is as cheap, dense, or easy to form. It's really a great fit for the application.

[@jad2484]

expecially. You mean especially

[@allen4758]

Bring back the 162gr 7mm A- max !

[@Fbxoutdoor]

Killed a caribou at 192 yards out of a 6.5 cm with the 143ELDX and it passed straight through with no expansion.

[@craigwallen8886]

Any way we can get more love for the 6.8

[@FC2ESWS]

And what velocity do you need to open up?

[@chasehunt6497]

2000 CX and 1600 ELDX

[@FC2ESWS]

@@chasehunt6497 Only 1600 for the eldx? Wow

[@chasehunt6497]

@@FC2ESWS that’s for caliber and a half. That’s what they say. I’ve tested similar. You can squeeze it a little lower but at that point you’re far enough anyways. 1600 is a good consistent number. The front of the jacket is very thin and the way the cavity is designed behind the tip it opens well

[@johnl5974]

50 yard shot muzzleloader shot, 240 XTP in sabot. Jacket found in offside rib muscle, core against far hide. A friend says "I don't like that, the bullet failed" Yeah. Right. Failed. - DEAD DEER. The function of the bullet is to quickly kill the game animal, not produce camera ready bullets for a magazine ad. For my inside 300 yard deer, in 24 years, cup and core work for me. Most times I get pass through so don't know what it looked like.

[@timburns379]

Why do CX have lower BCs compared with similar Barnes TTSX?

[@hornady]

Have you compared them in the 4DOF calculator and compared them at range with the actual drag curve of the bullets? Might be eye opening.

[@timburns379]

@@hornady I have the app but there are only Hornady projos. I haven’t figured out how to load a custom projo. if I could afford a chirp radar chrono I would. Most reloaders don’t even have an optical chrono. We depend on manufacturers to give us the info to develop safe and accurate handloads

[@atairuy]

I don’t agree that bonded and non bonded are basically the same. I get if they are tough to make but don’t say they are the same

[@jasonshults368]

I disagree. Bonding can make a difference, but not as much as most people want to imagine.

[@WillardGrant]

I load 190gr cx in a 30-378 weatherby 26inches barrel at 3400fps

[@bobmcmillen4502]

Thanks for the info. Is a high shoulder shot an appropriate shot on a bull Elk w the Eldx?

[@jasonshults368]

Depends. It always depends. Distance? Caliber? Weight? Cartridge? Impact velocity range?

[@bobmcmillen4502]

@@jasonshults368 I get all that. I wanted to hear from Hornady. They might discuss all those things you brought up. For sake of argument 6.5 prc at 2900 fps at the muzzle. 700 yards. I saw a Berger 156 drop a bull w a high shoulder shot under those conditions.

[@jamesyarbrough4777]

theres alot of videos of the eld x coming apart in gel.

[@naturalcauses7351]

When is a 338 prc coming out

[@chadperry4021]

I wouldn’t expect one as it would need even more case volume to launch 300 grain projectiles. Personally I’d like to see hornady do something with the quarter bores. Also hornady has been releasing cartridges after new bullets they haven’t been doing much with the 338 bore in a while.

[@jfess1911]

Hornady's last two 338's bombed in the market (338 RCM and 338 Marlin Express). I suspect they are a bit shy about trying again.

[@naturalcauses7351]

@jfess1911 good point

[@jfess1911]

I just remembered that the PRC series is based on the 375 Ruger case. Since there does not seem to be a big market for a 338 PRC, it would be fairly straightforward to neck down a 375 Ruger case. This might limit the length of ogive that you could use, especially if you want something with high BC. It is fairly common that a .338 version of a cartridge will have a shorter case than the .30 for this reason. The 338 Norma, 338 RCM, 338 WM and 33 Nosler are examples.

[@naturalcauses7351]

Sounds like short and fat would be the way to go. 500 Jeffery or 505 gibs case or cheytac. Could be fun to stuff in a standard length action

[@ABa40032]

Is it fair to say that you need less energy with a monolithic bullet because they maintain near 100% weight retention? Whereas a cup and core bullet loses weight, thus loses energy by the time it makes it to the other side of the animal?

[@jasonshults368]

No, it isn't fair to say that. It's far more complicated, and far more simple than that. What's your goal?

[@ABa40032]

@jasonshults368 determining if I have enough energy at x yards. How is it more complicated and less complicated at the same time?

[@jfess1911]

@@jasonshults368 Jason, what about the old cup and core rules of thumb, like 1500ft-lbs for elk, 1000 for deer? Do the CX bullets follow these rules or can they have lower energy as long as they stay above 2000fps? Thanks

[@nathanadams8207]

Bring back the GMX

[@justice1327]

Seth should just do the podcast by himself. He likes to hear himself talk, and the guests are actually just their as an audience.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

He is getting a little full of himself. Drunk on the company line

[@chantallgothe744]

Is there a spec sheet with the recommended twist rates for the different cx .30 bullets? What is the minimum twist rate fir the 165 gr cx . .30 (308) bullet? Thanks

[@hornady]

1 in 12" will stabilize it. I'd be surprised if you had anything slower

[@REDNECKROOTS]

I cant believe hornady is admitted to not being able to make a bonded bullet . Its to hard. Lol. Yea except there is several other companies doing it with just as good of hunting accuracy as anything they offer. Federal knocks it outa the park with there loads . Nosler is the pinnacle of a great bonded bullet. There accubond sets the bar Speer makes bonded , and hotcore that shoot great. I can go on and on. North fork projectiles are great . Yall keep buying hornadys junk cup n core leaves more good bonded bullets for me to buy. 😂

[@angelosantora6625]

How come all your 6.5 Grendel loads all use the eld-m and not the eld-x for the people hunting

[@TexProfVH]

As a Grendel hunter, my guess -- muzzle velocities are generally under 2500 and thus the bullet does not "blow up" and the thinner jacket allows for expansion at the lower speeds of the Grendel. Thus the factory loads in eld-m and sst. I've killed dozens of red deer, whitetails, pigs, coyotes, and even turkey with both bullets in Grendel factory and handloads up to 250yds, but I avoid shoulder shots and expect fragmentation if shot is under 100yds.

[@angelosantora6625]

@@TexProfVH I get it . Put like many I want everything 😂. Two things I want in the Grendel world is a bullet that holds together and bolt gun reload charts. It works great for here in the northeast whitetail and predator hunting

[@jmgates09]

I can't get the Cx to shoot great in any of my rifles 130gr 270wsm is right around 1.5 moa which is acceptable for blind hunting in my close patches 200 yds and in but 140gr tsx and 130gr copper impact shoot wayyy better tsx is .80 and copper impact is hovering around half moa.....my 6.5 creed is only rifle i have that is a 1moa gun with cx and that's its best my 6.5 prc don't like em 300wsm hates em 308 don't like em

[@TFoley-mm9ff]

Hey The guy on the left in the white hoody has cancer on his nose get him to a dermatologist ASAP!!!!!

[@eskimoreloader]

Seems like there trying to beat The Barnes or trying to catch up with Barnes 🤮

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

They could actually surpass Barnes if they would design their copper bullets to expand faster and design more aerodynamic relief grooves on the bearing surface. The CX bullets are lame.

[@hornady]

Have you shot any? They aren't aerodynamic relief grooves. More grooves increase drag and lower the BC. They are used to relieve pressure and give the displaced copper from the rifling a place to go.

[@laxwyo1]

from all indications, the cx expands at lower velocities than the TSX and has higher BCs.

[@jmgates09]

But eldx is a different story 25wssm 6.5 creed both right around 3/4 moa 6.5 prc half moa 270wsm best group around .60 moa 7wsm 150 gr eldx .485 best 162gr eldx .619 best group haven't tried the 175gr 308 ar10 178eldx 1moa 300wsm 200gr 3/4 moa wish hornady would make a 225 or 230gr for 325wsm

[@rosalindstewart7013]

How do you like the 7wsm, seriously thinking about building one, any advice would be much appreciated mate, thanks, cheers Yogi ✌️🇦🇺

[@ballisticlt7452]

For light skinned game like deer, the eldx is fine. But for big game I only use bonded lead cores. You couldn’t pay me to use solid coppers again on any animal.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

Because Copper bullets do not open up fast enough??

[@ballisticlt7452]

@@JamesClark-lw6sw I’ve taken a moose with one. There was zero expansion. Pencil sized entry and exit holes. Fortunately it was recovered.

[@anthonysullivan4202]

@@ballisticlt7452 barnes are the go, all other monolithic bullets are shit in comparison...haha

[@anthonysullivan4202]

oops, except 185 gmx works great in 338 lapua and super accurate.

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@ballisticlt7452 how long ago was that? 30 years ago monolithics had plenty of expansion reliability issues, that’s not the case anymore.

[@JohnGallagher-j9o]

I’ll save everyone the 1 hour. Go terminal ascent there’s no comparison, hornady is years behind and the ELDX is junk by comparison. Terminal ascent covers all avenues, expansion at low velocity, weight retention at high velocity and great expansion.

[@guloguloguy]

HEY!!!.... HOW ABOUT DOING SOME INNOVATIVE, "DESIGN ENGINEERING" ON THE "BARREL RIFLING" USED IN FIREARMS!!!... LAND & GROOVES", vs "POLYGONAL", vs "OVAL/ELLIPTICAL"... ETC.....

[@HB-kp6rl]

55:00 went from a podcast to an add

[@colonelferringeyes9714]

Hornady podcast...Grim seriously obedient puppets of servitude to controlling and monitoring head-office puppet-masters. The uptight lifestyle of accepted subjugation to strict enforced behaviour makes for a disinteresting and eventually boring group discussion where off-narrative character or interacting with "excess" unneccesary humour is obviously frowned upon...

[@guloguloguy]

HEY!!!.... HOW ABOUT DOING SOME INNOVATIVE, "DESIGN ENGINEERING" ON THE "BARREL RIFLING" USED IN FIREARMS!!!... LAND & GROOVES", vs "POLYGONAL", vs "OVAL/ELLIPTICAL"... ETC.....