Ep. 151 - Robert FitzPatrick - How “Ponzinomics” Explains the Big Lie Behind Multi-Level Marketing

[@lawman3966]

One of the most distressing things about this video is that, as of this writing, it has 264 views after being on YT for a month. If this were a glossy MLM-funded presentation, it would have more like 100K views by now, and a boatload of new victims in their downlines.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

It doesn't deserve any views, it is full of falsehoods and lies.

[@lawman3966]

I recently compared the price of body soap I buy from Amazon to a comparable product from Arbonne. The Arbonne product wasn't merely a little bit more expensive, it cost _seven times_ as much. Upon looking at an overall perspective of an MLM operation, it looks too ridiculous to last a month. Yet, the model has lasted for about seventy years.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

You just described why most MLMs are illegal pyramids, as overpriced products cannot be sold to outside customers to any significant extent.

[@Victor.C01]

beautiful, what an amazing interview. thanks for sharing this content. Definitely sharing to my circle and connections.

[@thedecisionmakingstudio]

Thank you!

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Too bad FitzPatrick gets many things wrong, but he has his own false narrative and books to sell, just like MLM scams.

[@howardcohen4845]

​@@ScottTexJohnsonsure 🙄

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@howardcohen4845 I am very sure, I am almost as sure that you wouldn't debate the issues on my podcast. LOL

[@lawman3966]

Well, perhaps the MLMs do avoid "risk" as R. Fitzpatrick says at about 1:14:00. In other words, you don't _risk_ losing money. Instead you are _guaranteed_ to lose money.

[@NASAistheway]

As a survivor (ACN) he is correct on all his commentary.

[@zuzumontague]

I’m an ACN survivor as well. I just recently got interviewed on two anti-MLM podcasts. Life after MLM, and the Persuasion Pitch. If you’re interested in being interviewed, I can give you the information.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

FitzPatrick is wrong on many issues.

[@andy47456]

@@ScottTexJohnson Enlighten us? This man is an expert witness used by lawyers.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@andy47456 Yes, lawyers who are as clueless as FitzPatrick. How many cases has he won? LOL

[@andy47456]

@@ScottTexJohnson One VERY large one, an MLM settled out of court for MILLLIONS. What MLM are you in, you seem to be trolling this video. Herbalife was fined 200 million. Why? Because they were an honest business.

[@ryanmaesen68]

This man is a true fighter for the little guy.

[@thedecisionmakingstudio]

Great way of putting it!

[@ScottTexJohnson]

FitzPatrick spreads lies and false ideas.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@thedecisionmakingstudio Not really, FitzPatrick spreads lies and false ideas.

[@andy47456]

@@ScottTexJohnson You're in a cult and losing money.

[@lawman3966]

Near the end of the video, he mentions that he knows a man who spent 13 years in an MLM. I thought that most downline distributors lost their money and quit after one year. Good for him for getting out though.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Most people do get out after a year or less. But not all do.

[@lmusima3275]

I’m going to get this book. I’m guessing many of these MLM people who claim they’re legit and not scams aren’t happy with hearing about Robert Fitzpatrick

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Cutco looks like sales because it IS sales. Most MLMs aren't about sales to outside customers, they are all about getting volume via recruiting downline and the profit that comes from when the downline buy the products.

[@christopherarmitage1030]

Ponzinomics is actually now available in audio form. Just bought mine on Audible.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

When the FTC lawsuit against Amway started in 1975, Ford was president. When Amway lied about their retail sales and the FTC did not require them to show proof of retail sales, Carter was president.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Most MLMs are operating illegally because of little to no retail sales to outside customers, the problem is they are under-regulated.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

People who join MLMs later make money all the time. It is rare, but they are held up in front of the 99% to show "proof" that it works.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

It is critical to separate the act of recruiting, where most MLMs do NOT reward the upline, from the new recruit buying products, which DOES reward the upline. The reason for this is the MLM scams destroy the critics' credibility by showing NO distributor profit is made soley by the act of recruiting.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

DeVos was also fired from the RNC in 1983 when the Canadian criminal and civil lawsuits hit the front page.

[@markrichardson3566]

Robert and others are trailblazers in this community 🎉

[@DionWynn]

Hello, I really enjoy these videos talking about the MLM' bull crap. I'm dealing with this right now, getting pitched on a travel mlm all the time. And these people just don't know when no means no. Would like for you to breakdown how MLM'S using travel is just as bad as other mlm companies. They really believe they are better than the rest. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ScottTexJohnson]

A much better book title would have been Pyranomics, because while Ponzi schemes are similar to MLM scams, there are distinct differences, such as the Ponzi scheme not being multi-level and only the operator at the top, such as Bernie Madoff and a very small number of his helpers, knew what was going on.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

The government got AdvoCare to stop doing MLM in 2019, they got as big as 750 million dollars/year a year or two earlier. They are now direct sales only and did in the neighborhood of $54 million last year.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

I wasn't silenced when I left Amway, but FitzPatrick is silent when I try to help him understand how MLM scams really work.

[@markrichardson3566]

Great video gents , we need this stuff for sure 🙂✌️🎉

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Most countries call Amway distributors ABOs (Amway Business Owners), that term is even used by Amway in the U.S. at times.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

When his friends contacted him in the early 90s he probably didn't know whether there were retail sales and therefore didn't know whether it was an illegal pyramid. The problem was he was burned by the Airplane Game and viewed MLM as the same thing, regardless of any other factors.

[@UFCMusic]

listening to this now. he's cool

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@UFCMusic Be sure to read my comments on that video, I rip FitzPatrick a new one.

[@anij80]

MLM are commercial cults and a scam. UUUUU I'm sure Robert quiver with fear,give me break !!!

[@ScottTexJohnson]

The 1979 Amway case clearly required retail sales, the FTC was too incompetent to force Amway to produce retail sales receipts, but the idea that retail sales are needed in subsequent cases has endured, so to say the Amway decision was a total bust is nonsense. In fact, other MLMs, when being attacked by the FTC or other sources often clings to the three "Amway rules" of retail sales, inventory rules, and a good return policy as they they are a legitimate MLM and not an illegal pyramid.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

About half of the 93% of people who didn't make money didn't do anything, or did very little. How much do you think people like that deserve to be paid?

[@ScottTexJohnson]

I don't think the government ever endorsed MLM.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Although I would prefer a federal law that defines an illegal pyramid as an MLM that has the majority of products/services being sold to customers outside the network, the settlements/trial precedent is more than enough to put illegal pyramids out of business, it takes the will of the FTC to do it.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Your Cutco knife experience and realizing "the math" didn't work assumes everyone works hard. They don't.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Holiday Magic and Koscot were fundamentally different than Amway because you could buy a position in the former companies but not the latter. The saturation factor was not "proven," see below Ger-Ro-Mar and Amway references. Those cases may have been an aberration, but it is not considered precedent or there would be no MLMs. Also, MLMs do not have an endless chain. For example, Amway is a stair-step breakaway, which breaks the endless chain.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

If FitzPatrick is such an expert and has testified at various depositions/trials, why hasn't he been successful with changing the MLM industry? Could it be because his testimony doesn't hold up well during cross examination?

[@suzinaccache]

because of all the government lobbying maybe

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@suzinaccache Most judges and juries aren't targeted by government lobbying. Try again. Hint: FitzPatrick has NO IDEA what he's talking about.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

FitzPatrick is a "world-renowned" expert because he dodges every attempt to point out his lies and untruths. His talk of "infinite wealth" is from his no-product illegal pyramid days, MLMs talk about hard work and rewards proportional to that work.

[@jellydarling1008]

Wow he really ticked you off, I guess he’s saying all the right stuff

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@jellydarling1008 I'm not "ticked off" about anything except the lies and inaccurate information that FitzPatrick spews. LOL

[@matthewfothergill8540]

I would love to ask this guy about Primerica- the whole vibe is just....cultish...

[@Billboardmister36]

Thanks for speaking the truth!

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Except it wasn't the truth, it was full of lies and falsehoods.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Merchants of Deception by Eric Scheibeler 2009, and is a much more accurate account of Amway since he was actually an Amway Emerald. Behind the Smoke and Mirrors by Ruth Carter 1999, also an insider story and much more accurate than FitzPatrick's fictional account.

[@UFCMusic]

the best amway book is Steve Butterfield's "The Cult of Free Enterprise"

[@ScottTexJohnson]

@@UFCMusic That book was written prior to FitzPatrick's book, which is why I didn't list it. Butterfield's book is also much better than either of FitzPatrick's books. However, my websites are far superior to any book and every book put together.

[@Drforbin941]

Really great interview

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Recruiting can and does occur in different cities, states, and even countries, so the notion that saturation will occur is absurd, unless there is intense recruiting among a small population.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

FitzPatrick makes a lot of absolute statements such as "10:29 in again in south florida multi-level 10:31 marketing just exploded in south florida 10:34 now we're into the early 90s 10:36 and every person who had been in that 10:39 earlier scheme 10:40 joined multi-level marketing schemes" How does he know every single person who signed up in the Airplane Game also later signed up in an MLM?

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Betting on Zero was an Herbalife documentary.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

I don't know who calls it exalting the leader, Amway calls it edifying the leader.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

The problem with focusing on cults is that cults are not illegal and it takes the focus off of the illegal activities. Here's part of the solution:

[@Drforbin941]

excellent!

[@accordionSWE]

Thank you for this video 😎👍

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Perhaps there are no laws against gifting schemes in the British Virgin Islands.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

The Direct Selling Caucus has shrunk to 38.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

FitzPatrick cannot reconcile the 5x5x5... geometric expansion AND the 80% dropout rate. Math DOES count. Let alone the fact that most people don't put in much effort and most people can't recruit one person, let alone five.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Amway teaches to recruit people who are successful, because poor people can't afford the overpriced products or the tools.

[@christopherarmitage1030]

More negative stinkin' thinkin' from this dream stealer! I know a couple who have been in the Amway business for 28 years and have yet to achieve any significant level. They joined in 1995 and they're still chasing the dream. Oh, boy.

[@jellydarling1008]

I really am happy because I think i have an instinct agents scams like this but I’m to empathetic to people who get scared in and thus I end up supporting stupid shit 😕

[@ScottTexJohnson]

If you think Islam is peaceful, you haven't read the Koran. I have, from beginning to end.

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Commission sales selling knives is not free labor.

[@ryansperception]

1:00

[@markrichardson3566]

The products are a front

[@markrichardson3566]

It helps if you are friends with the president 🤔

[@markrichardson3566]

$$$$$ at the top

[@ScottTexJohnson]

Most people stayed employed while in an MLM, it's how they pay for the expensive products and tool scam costs.

[@markrichardson3566]

The products are a front