Ep 177 - Is Our Caterpillar BOAT Engine In Trouble?

[@robinstyles9997]

My contribution towards the new pump

[@ShipHappensUK]

Thank you so much! We really appreciate your support x

[@hughjarse4627]

Very odd behaviour

[@stevenborman9110]

In all these videos from the beginning of your journey, Simon really has come out his shell and seems to be enjoying talking to all of us, explaining what he is doing and such. Gemma is just a star.

[@nicksearle3677]

Also I’m always really impressed with Simon’s ability to laugh at calamity and maintain his calm. Seeing this has made me want to do better when everything goes wrong, which is quite regular in engineering

[@dougmiller2530]

Engines no5 being run hard enough to dry its self out getting moisture dried up an out

[@jockmcbroom2774]

With one water pump failed, best to examine the other engine. Once bitten twice shy. Also sea water is great for rapidly corroding bearing material, so be aware of any premature bearing knocks. Note others commenting on the painting of the inside of the rocker covers, which is a no no. Paint can dissolve, some types faster than others, and break down from contact with hot oil and get in amongst the oil galleries. Best to lift the cover and remove all paint.

[@jenniferrobinson4277]

As an ex navy artificer, I'd say you avoided a bullet by a whisker. Clean what you can and change the oil again after a few hours and check it for metal content. You've worn about 1000 hrs off the service period. You've done ok. Don't fret.

[@kensiler9208]

I would definitely do a cooling system pressure test to see if the pressure leaks down. You need to make sure there isn't a blown head gasket or cracked water jacket. As you probably already know, antifreeze will act like grinding compound on the bearings. Painting the inside of the valve cover isn't necessary, the engine oil protects it, plus, you don't want the paint coming off getting into the engine and clogging oil passages.

[@nicktomlin9137]

I've watched every episode of ship happens and have loved them all, but this is the interesting part for me. You can see a twinkle in Simons eye when he has to delve into an engine, even though he knows there's an issue. It's a massive engine. He still knows what he's doing, and it's brilliant to watch. He's learning on the job. Thank God you found the problem now.

[@duaneayers6117]

Every time Simon would start these 2 motors. He would have a smile ear to ear. So I'm sure that Simon will have no problem working on them.

[@davehine724]

Thanks!

[@ShipHappensUK]

Cheers Dave! Appreciate your support x

[@williamclay5615]

Jabsco are part of Xylem Ltd a big multi national.. the marine pumps are manufactured in Hungary and Mexico , they sell service kits and parts which could potentially allow you the option to rebuild you pump ( i saw Jabsco name on the side of your pump ...dont go to Caterpillar they will put 250% mark up or more !

[@CanandianPeriod]

Most of the early marine jabsco pumps used on 333, 3306 marine engines had no place for oil transfer to the water. The repair kit was a new rubber impeller, cover gasket and shaft seals. The pumps were driven by belts off the crank pulley or other drive pulley.

[@m1cxf]

Well spotted with the leak, Find a local small machine shop. A man in his shed type are best. Probably get the shaft metal sprayed or a sleave made and pressed on. I'm not a fan of painting inside engines, At one time I would have wiped a thin layer of waxoyl on to give it a little protection until it can gat hot oil again. I have moved on to Lanoguard as it is so much easier to use.

[@phy7dop]

Hi guys. Very interesting video. I was a failure analysist for a manufacturer of diesel engines for many years. The rust probably won't bother the rocker arms, shaft, push rods, gears, splines etc. They are heavy sections of steel and a bit of microscopic pitting wont hurt. Valve springs however are very sensitive to any kinds of defects, especially corrosion pitting. As these are highly stressed and subject to constant stress cycles the pitting can lead to fatigue failure of the springs. In turn you would be at risk of dropping a valve. I would definitely price up a new set of springs, if nothing else.

[@440capnhook]

You are exactly right and have seen this in person on a boat sunk in saltwater we bought. Boat was only sunk for a day but once it was pulled out and everything was drained it was left sitting for a month. We pulled the engine went through it cleaned it all up wasnt really even as bad as this engine and thought we got lucky. And the first water test we started dropping cylinders one by one as the vale springs were breaking. Thankfully no dropped valves so no damage replaced all the valve springs and its been fine ever since.

[@choimdachoim9491]

The simplicity of older engines...back when they were fun to work on.

[@paulbriggs3072]

This is fun? I can barely watch t the headache.

[@CanandianPeriod]

the 3300 series engines were work horses and a joy to work on. Even after I retired several people I know who had them as marine engines would call me and yes I would go enjoy working on them.

[@PaulSutton-w7u]

Great to see your enthusiasm. Should the paint coating inside the rocker cover start to fail you may end up with particles falling off and potentially blocking or restricting the oil passages. I suggest leaving the inside as bare metal.

[@davevillaire2990]

Likewise, but he's already done this. Too late.

[@loginregional]

I sent some CAT diesel guys to take a look at your channel back a few months ago. Dunno if they subscribed, but they'd be wanting to see THIS!

[@CanandianPeriod]

I am a 20+ year Cat and worked on many 3306 engines. With what I see I believe there is probably a lot of damage to the engine due to running on emulsified oil. Oil loses it's lubricating properties when emulsified. Bearings and bushings can be quickly damaged from running a engine with oil in it like this.

[@gandalf2439]

Could be the heat exchanger has a leak into the fresh water

[@mikef.1000]

But that would mean that the fresh (but now contaminated) water is leaking into the engine... still a problem!

[@CanandianPeriod]

@@mikef.1000 water leaking into the engine oil lubricating system causes the oil to emulsify. Emulsified oil has no lubricating properties and will cause major internal damage quickly.

[@CaptianKaos]

Sorry Simon and Gemma. You had the warning sign when you did the service on the engine. There are two places for Raw water contamination. The Raw water pump and the Oil Cooler. You will want to check the oil cooler to make sure it is ok. You may want to service the other raw water pump on the other engine before it has a similar problem. Well, nothing to it but to do it. Great video this week with the engine. Cheers.

[@4437RR]

Gained new respect for Simon and his abilities 😮.

[@CanandianPeriod]

Sadly as a cat tech knowing 3306 marine engines you are looking at a full top end rebuild, rocker arms, rocker shaft, everything. Have the head taken off and from the looks of it rebuilt. Inspect cylinders for rust, scoring. you may also have to pull the oil pan and inspect main and rod bearings, crankshaft journals. Clean and pressure test heat exchangers. ETC, ETC. this engine has been running on emulsified oil which has no lubricating properties. Sorry for the bad news but it is a major repair.

[@Mercmad]

Pulling the pan on a marinized cat is a major job, requiring the deck above the engine to be removed .I've done lots of water damaged engines including engines in boats and working on a engine in a truck is vastly different to what they face here.

[@HANZELVANDERLAAY]

I disagree.... reassemble.....change the oil..and add engine restore....good to go...not for commercial use...but they should be fine

[@triglide1776]

Thankfully, you have Gemma power !

[@carlwest859]

It seems one engine produced a lot of smoke out the exhaust, all the time. How is water getting into the combustion chamber? Head gasket, cylinder sleeve O-ring, or something is cracked perhaps. Simon definitely found a problem with water entering the crankcase, but it does appear there is another significant failure to diagnose. Old 3306 Cat engines keep you on your toes, hopefully Gemma can locate the proper sources for alternate parts sources. try corleys in tx

[@CanandianPeriod]

@@carlwest859 I noticed large amounts of rust around several precombustion chambers and also major rust at two valve guides. Like you mentioned about excessive smoking from the engine was the emulsified oil leaking past the precup seals to the head and the valve guides? I would also definitely get the oil cooler core checked for leakage as I have seen engines heavily damaged by emulsified oil. In one case main bearings were destroyed due to lack of proper lubrication. It is hard to really diagnose the engine without being there. I am in Canada but from what I saw with my 20 plus years with Cat is this engine definitely needs a full tearing down to repair it properly.

[@gilbertmarshall7957]

Great episode, makes a nice change from woodwork. The flat-faced seal is key, along with a weep-hole. I've recently used a product by SKF called a Speedi-Sleeve. They cover the damaged part of the shaft and cost just a few pounds.

[@Garymt123]

Going to really enjoy watching Simon getting this engine repaired and then getting it purring like a kitty Cat 😊

[@stevedunford7632]

If you fit silicon hoses use T-bolt style hose clamps. the normal Jubilee clamps are too narrow and cut into the silicon.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

ASH silicone hoses sell stainless worm drive clips. I’ve never had a clip from them that’s damaged a hose. On small hoses (especially viton lined for oil and fuel) the main issue is to get a clip that won’t go D shape before it’s tight enough.

[@RoyCarter-o5n]

…or liner clamps which are made especially for that purpose.

[@andrewmurton8379]

So sorry to see this, as if you didn’t have a big enough mountain to climb already. The one saving grace is Simon is already an engineer with lots of mechanical knowledge so this is within his comfort zone. Here’s hoping it’s just a pump rebuild and a strip down and clean up of the head.

[@dennisbinyon9023]

As of right now, the vehicle that holds the record of the world’s fastest motorhome is a Fiat Doblo camper van that reached 141.3 mph in 2014 with driver Simon Robins behind the wheel. That van had a Fiat Coupe GT28 turbo engine making 337 HP.

[@ShipHappensUK]

Yes that’s ours!

[@JohnKenIRB233]

Oo

[@fastinradfordable]

That’s because here in USA at LS fest we don’t do top speed camper runs because plenty of em here 1000+hp

[@ShipHappensUK]

@@fastinradfordablethere has been a few from the USA that have tried to beat it but failed, and they didn’t have a camper interior in they were ripped out to reduce weight! Ours was a full camper even with a toilet! www.theautopian.com/this-700-hp-camper-is-the-worlds-fastest-class-a-motorhome-and-you-can-buy-it/

[@flick22601]

I've never done it before but, I just sent (I hope) a down payment for that pump. Hope it goes through.

[@flick22601]

Oh yeah, via PayPal. I didn't see anywhere that I could include this note with it.

[@ShipHappensUK]

Got it! Thank you so much, that is extremely kind of you! We truly appreciate your support x

[@CarolBlackmore]

Cat marine have raw water going through the heat exchanger then the oil cooler next the gearbox oil cooler and finally out the exhaust so you may like to check the oil cooler Simon

[@Boatlife69]

Nice vid! Would reconsider the paint on the inside of the cover- you don’t want bits of that floating around your engine oil… keep up the good work, your videos are a highlight of my week.

[@southerneruk]

Head Casket, needs replacing mistake painting inside the rocker cover, bits of that paint could drop off and end up in the oil

[@howardbeer5214]

Nothing wrong with the head gasket but yes should never paint inside the rocker cover

[@MonkeySpanner498]

@@howardbeer5214 especially as it wasn't all back to clean metal

[@fastinradfordable]

Deboss garage killed a 12v Cummins painting inside of his engine

[@thom196121]

Love seeing a good couple working together and I understand that they’re can be disagreements but you work together thick and tine

[@johnbazaar8440]

Good to find and fix now rather than at sea. 👍😎

[@GlenWright-in1fd]

When we operated Sarinda, one engine had a top end re-build. I am guessing this is the other engine?

[@lauralake7430]

Are you the prior captain? Tell us more!

[@GlenWright-in1fd]

@lauralake7430 Hello, I wasn't the prior Captain. But was the skipper in the early 2000's. We operated Sarinda as a dive charter vessel, out of Liverpool. Sailing to Southern Ireland, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man, Liverpool Bay and Scottish inner Hebrides. She was a good vessel and well maintained when we had her, but we noticed that the "new" superstructure added on in the 1980's was not going to be strong enough and was starting to deteriorate. it was not marine ply. (Maybe it was, but all cut edges should be sealed). We used to strap 36 dive bottles to fo'c'sle. We also had a dive compressor in the engine room, plus we fitted a brand new Onan generator (that took seven people to manoeuvre onto boat and get into place. When we sold vessel and upgraded to a bigger vessel, Sarinda was sold to a guy that was going to do lots with her but he sort of left her to rot. I was shocked to see her in such condition. But she's in good hands now.

[@NUTTER8291]

I dont know why but when you said " right back to the workshop " i was half expecting to hear the old batmat jingle when they change scene 😆

[@shelleyregnier6671]

We thought the same thing!🤣

[@GetSmartish]

I know this is just a video (and an older one at that) but I found myself cheering for you as you were tackling getting that pump apart. Well done. (not that I'm surprised at all)

[@billmeldrum2509]

You guys are fearless! Fingers crossed for this project. 🇨🇦

[@dougiepaine449]

so cool calm and collected just shows Simon knows what he is doing there if that was me i would be jumping ship into the mud. i hope it all goes ok and best of luck

[@shalaconballard9912]

Another thing a machine shop can do is place a repair sleave over the shaft its always good to check and it can save you alot of money in the long run .

[@rolandtb3]

Wow £3500 》£850, massive savings if equivalent. Simon so far has done a great job removing the parts and cleaning up. Preventing a major catastrophic failure. Plus you have learnt a little more about your boat.

[@mitchhill345]

Simon. I would at least replace all the valve springs and keepers. A corroded spring will break from all the pitting and if that happens you drop a valve. That would be a catastrophic failure you dont want. They can be replaced without removing the head.

[@snocrushr]

If it were my engine I would replace the valve springs. Even minor rust pitting can and will compromise the spring and cause it to brake, which I have seen many times over my 50+ yr career and you also know the catastrophic damage a dropped valve can do. But as we all know by the time this episode airs you will have reassembled the engine and be patting yourselves on the back for a job well done. Cheers

[@ShipHappensUK]

Engine still in bits, but new valve springs are on there way to us!

[@snocrushr]

@@ShipHappensUK Good to here you will be swapping out the springs👍👍

[@stevejohnstonbaugh9171]

Nice video Simon and Gemma. I enjoyed the trip inside the CAT engine. Certainly glad you caught that before it did serious damage to the engine.

[@ShipHappensUK]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@normanboyes4983]

Probability: 1. Condensation - resulting from engine not achieving running temperature and warm air condensing inside the cold engine. 2. Heat exchanger - take it off and do a pressure test. 3. Raw water pump - possibly.

[@slimjim3229]

Sometimes a machine shop that deals with pumps can do a weld overlay on scored shafts then machine off the extra metal back to O.D. specs. Rebuilding might be cheaper than replacing if you can minimize machine shop billable hours.

[@jerrybauman6927]

Gemma has such an infectious smile. She an excellent worker too.

[@john-em1jr]

Hi Simon certainly shows his skills tackling that big engine i was also impressed when he made the small generator in a previous video, well done to both of you really love your videos it is a mammoth task you have taken on..

[@taynecooper7747]

Worked on these engines on underground loaders and also in Antarctica used on generators, pretty bullet proof even when they are producing maximum power rating, in Antarctica they were replaced at 36,000 hours, still running ok but just as a precaution, brings back memories

[@benjaminstarcher802]

It's not as bad as you guys made it out to be. You guys are in okay shape. You guys are awesome. I've been following you guys the whole time you guys started your channel

[@CanandianPeriod]

Wow have you any idea how much damage emulsified oil can cause very quickly. Emulsified oil has no lubricating properties! I am talking from 20+ years working on 333, 3306 and other cat engine for a dealer here in Canada.

[@tracybooth9665]

I have to say I’ve been around a lot of mechanics in my life and Simon has an understanding of all things mechanical as well as anyone I’ve known.

[@nicksearle3677]

Looking back on the previous videos one engine was always a little smoky and the oil wasn’t great when you changed it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you caught it and it can be fixed. Old diesels are fun to work on and you have plenty of space, better than most boats. Have fun and good luck.

[@williamclay5615]

Jabsco pump , maybe go direct to them for parts ? Caterpillar parts are notoriously expensive

[@V8guy3500]

I worked 30 years in the oil industry we had dozens of cats ,prices of parts are insane. Hope it works out ok

[@paulwilson373]

Hi I had a similar problem with a jabsco pump I rang them direct. They where very friendly and sent me a full list of spare parts and diagram,my pump is very similar to yours but much smaller good luck and all the best

[@johnnewbold3225]

Head off, refresh, new gaskets. Clean outoil pan, check mains and big ends. Reassemble if you are lucky

Thanks

[@ShipHappensUK]

Thank you so much x

[@moosenbeans903]

Send a sample of the oil in to be tested. Love you guys.

[@jakobusphsteyn3500]

These engines are wonderfully simple and reliable and fairly easy to overhaul but pricy. (shop around) I have overhauled many of these, not in a marine environment, there I have worked on rather bigger ones but still medium speed. If the bottommend is in good condition the top should under ideal circumstances not take much more than three days.

[@reidnolan4456]

Question why did the owner sink Aurora ?

[@jonathanworthing6278]

I can remember you writing the dates on the filters, can’t believe it’s over a year.

[@malcolmharvey397]

I think that this engine has not been run up to temperature for a VERY long time and condensation has built up over time

[@fastinradfordable]

I deliberately block my cooling package when I do short trips on my lil diesel

[@GoofieNewfie69]

Shaft seal race: build up grove with weld and turn back down to nominal size. You build bike engines, you can do that

[@thomoism]

Simone is the sort of guy I hate. They are good at everything they touch. But great to watch. Just love the commentry. Well done THAT MAN.

[@megagarrym6318]

He's a modern-day Fred Dibnah!

[@dwansbo]

If left in this state the situation will only get worse, best to do whats necessary to preserve the engine until you are ready to return it to service at some future date. Both propulsion engines will need to pass an insurance survey, check with your provider what will be required, most likely a full stripdown and rebuild replacing any parts out of tolerance.

[@Motor_Mike]

Simon. Oh Simon before doing anything you need to Flush it out properly then you have better chance of finding the fault. I used to work on the Cat Engines on the Oil Rigs. You need NDT on the Head to start with 🤞🙏

[@messin-with-junk]

Too me, looks like condensation on the rockers and valves. I can say if you have to remove the cylinder head. That is a 2 person job and hoist. I have a couple brothers that are diesel tech and work heavy equipment. They use a forklift to remove and install the cylinder heads.

[@bradsmith-jf1vh]

Nice too see a couple enjoying being together regardless what the task hope it last forever ❤😊

[@haydenwatson7987]

Bummer finding the nastiness in the overhead. In all of the marine diesels that I am familiar with, the raw water pump has two back-to-back seals between the sea water and the oil with a weep hole between them. That way, if either seal leaks, it will drip from the weep hole where it can be seen rather than cross contaminating the other fluid. Good luck on finding the source.

[@PaulCheadle-w5v]

unfortunately for you guys, no CAT part is cheap anywhere in the world - especially in Australia - all imported form the USA normally. Great work on the engine repairs. Keep up the great work guys.

[@andrewmullen4003]

34:40 I like your T-shirt Simon, I was there in 2016! you could always give the rocker assembly an oil bath

[@MrMattDat]

I can't express how much my heart sank when you opened that breather!!

[@gunnarsvanberg4773]

Special seal looked like a shaftseal. Om an electric water pump it is the separator between the dry and wet side. You have to replace that if it is broken

[@garyk.]

Use Glyptal insulating paint on the inside of the valve cover. It is oil and water resistant. Primer may wash away into the oil. Many use it on their engine lifter valleys.

[@TennesseeHomesteadUSA]

33:40 Use slabs of wood in those vice jaws when clamping cast and machined assemblies !

[@robertpeters9438]

The impeller in the Hoover is most likely thin aluminum. Hoovering salty muck can cause premature failure of bearings and corrosion blocking the impeller like that of a radiator. Just a warning so you don't finding yourself in need of one but having it fail.

[@Sircraig7963]

Hey Simon , Your heat exchanger could also be the issue . A camera in the cylinders would be helpful, Both oil & water need to be checked for salt . I hope the damage is limited to the top end ,hope it cleans up OK guys . Respect.....!

[@crystalzimmerman2042]

I feel for you ,at a good point you don't have to be a little person to squeeze into get it

[@buffplums]

27:50 is that the money shot 😂😂😂

[@custa73burner]

I agree, an engine is an engine. My heart sank seeing water getting in, I thought, head gasket, quite big job, or, cracked block, really big job. I've done a few engines, and tend to think the worst till I know for sure. So glad it was much less than that.

[@jayben00]

So nice that most components of the engine are easily acceptable, no sheet metal or engine compartment to remove for access.

[@Peter-jo3wt]

The major problem with inboard boat engines, is that if you need to remove them... you need to remove the deck.

[@donwilson6617]

As soon as you fix this one you should make sure the other engine isn't about to fail also...or fail later when you are about a hundred miles out in a rough sea

[@petejolly865]

At minute 23 I was dying inside when you started using a chisel to separate the two flanges.

[@TennesseeHomesteadUSA]

I cringed too.

[@MrJimbaloid]

Keep the oil and find a place that will analyze a sample. There is a place in shefffield that does it but there must be a company/lab in liverpool. Honestly I started doing this a few years ago on truck engines and I'll tell you now it saves SO much time and is not to costly.

[@CanandianPeriod]

as a Cat tech, worked on hundreds of 333, 3306 series engines I see from the video many signs of emulsified oil which can quickly cause major damage. Many people do not know emulsified oil has no lubricating properties

[@robertedwards3147]

maybe you need to get the oil tested at each oil change for water - metal etc the information would give you a heads up on the engine

[@martinbarker5045]

After watching your video,ignore my comments about condensation. Should have watched it all first. Well done by the way.

[@michaelmcateer1598]

would it be a good idea to sand blast and repaint bits of the engine that you have removed, so in future you can tell what has been done at a glance, also GREAT JOB 🙂🙂🙂

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Caterpillar being American will have different spanner sizes to British Imperial. Ours are Whitworth (same thread form as metric! and British Standard Fine (BSF). USA had (has) Unified Coarse and Unified Fine. The nut fixed and threads are not compatible.

[@DuncanBeaird]

Interesting that the valve cover and water pump parts were Cat Marine white over Cat yellow. I wonder if that's a stationary engine put into marine use, or if ALL Caterpillar parts are painted Cat yellow coming off the assembly line, then when they're put on a marine engine are painted Cat marine white?

[@davidpearson8954]

You guys never cease to amaze and inspire me. 😊

[@jamiekaye3680]

Just incase no ones mentioned it, try taking the shaft to a machinists, and stainless steel sleeve the seal surfaces, you will end up with a better product at a fraction of the price. 😊

[@MrMattDat]

Simon, it is just great to see this side of you and thank you for walking us through your process on this. I've seen enough videos of people pulling old tractors that were stuck in the woods for eons and those old Cat engines are awesome! I am looking forward to seeing you repair/rebuild this one!

[@larslotus]

Hi everyone. Sorry for this discovery not what you need is it. I do like your good spirits. Have a good look at the valve springs any corrosion on them and they may brake when you run the engine. I've seen it happen. Best of luck. A Swed in France.

[@LukeGrimm]

"Precision Hovering" Nice ~ You guys are awesome!

[@chrisbartlett6022]

Glad you found it, shame it happened, but of course Ship Happens ?

[@davekimbler2308]

Can you get a new shaft and rebuild that pump ? You should be able to remove the race and braze the shaft and lathe it back to specs but if you can get a shaft your half way home !

[@theconfessionsof_a]

You guys continue to amaze me, you’re both so versatile.

[@MicBruise]

Love watching Simon spray primer with an open mug of tea on the work table! Does that enhances the taste of the tea? **G**

[@denis9450]

Hi guys if this one is that bad the other engine won't be far behind I would be thinking of doing both in time at least you will have the experience of doing this one regards from Liverpool

[@keithchessun5085]

Besides pump, oil and raw water are close within the oil cooler.

[@keithfletcher5788]

Totally agree.

[@Maxx1066]

Those are good engines sometimes it's a good idea to deck the block if you suspect a head gasket you could try dunking parts use electrolysis to remove rust an spray with WD40 till you start rebuild. but your in good hands.

[@pk-teia6249]

In my youth I was an apprentice in the engineroom of a supertanker with a 26K horsepower Sulzer heavy diesel engine. There was a plethora of coolers and pumps for the cooling system, and the common theme was during regular maintenance we had to change out the anodes placed inside the pumps and coolers. In a pump such as yours, ithere will be metals of different types and maybe there was originaly an anode at one point of time that went bonkers a long time ago? We often found seashells and all sorts growing in the coolers, but the anodes kept everything from rusting up. Again, just a thought. Maybe you could find a way to install an anode in there somehow to help prevent any future corrotion.....

[@johnnunn8688]

I saw Simon remove the anode.

[@Peter.w]

Thats unfortunate about the pump Simon, but at least you caught it now rather than continuing to run it

[@davidplatt4148]

The best of luck with that Engine, you lost me when you picked up the Socket, Lol, I do hope its nothing serious.

[@bobmcdermott9535]

Me too!

[@MonkeySpanner498]

Righty Tighty, Lefty Lucy. Never forget that....

[@MonkeySpanner498]

or Loosie(?) ??