Ep. 274- Do Hardgainers Need More Volume?

[@rockyevans1584]

Both men agreeing to keep their head and facial hair opposite really sets the tone going in

[@pimpleonureye]

Eric really redeemed himself with this episode

[@korpi]

Yet I feel that Eric outdid him still. Can't really beat perfection.

[@Andreastheduck]

I've always found Eric to be exceptionally intelligent, kind, humorous, empathic, aesthetic, diligent, fair, patient, compassionate etc. the other eric though...

[@ankitbrother]

Man, that one eric really killed it, the main eric was a letdown though

[@3Cubatas]

Respond better to low volume crew here. I'm not hyper resonder either, i have been lifting for 10+ years and barely look like i lift. There is just no progress with high volumes (Tried from 3 weekly to 45 weekly over life), with low volume there is some progress, absurdly slow but there is. Looking at other studies on individual repsonse (Like Damas for example but i remember there are a few more) some of the subjects that go from non-responders / low-response to "responding" with low volume are sometimes in the very low end of the graph. I don't think most are really "hyper responders", they just get more fatigue as mentioned in the video (my experience, increase in volume only increases fatigue, TTV on lifts stall / regress). Also lets not ignore the fact that in some of the studies that they are looking at individual differences, some people do BETTER on the lower volume, a lot of the "HIT success histories" go like: "I was doing a bodybuilding split training 6 times a week with infinite volume and nothing happened, then i switched to 2-3 sessions a week 2-3 sets focusing on progression and my bicep width doubled". Is not that they were neutral to volume, they did better and think that EVERYONE else will (wrongly so, on average).

[@mconcepcion752]

My thighs are so sensitive to fatigue, even when i'm training consistenty. My thighs can get a massive pump from just going up several flights of stairs, or riding a bike at anything higher than a gentle intensity. I find I have at most 3 sets of squats at 8 or higher RPE before my legs are tapped out. And that's when I'm well trained. When I am off, I can get a massive pump and be sore for days from just one set. My triceps on the other hand can handle so much volume my joints wear out before my triceps reach their limit of volume and frequency

[@robhar6866]

Finally, Eric stepped up and gave us a good performance (for once). Keep up the good work Eric! Now, Eric, as always, you did amazingly!

[@SteveK-ys2nl]

"They are written in the same handwriting" 😂

[@pus915]

Good episode 👍

[@DAMfoxygrampa]

I needed this episode so badly 🤣

[@MrStreetninja007]

As someone who it took a very large caloric Surplus for me to gain any weight over the years I find most people say they eat a lot but what they really mean is I ate a lot two days out of the week and for the other five I did not

[@jonnovak6856]

100%. There's no such thing as a hard gainer. Just undisciplined lazies looking for excuses.

[@KorashSyndikat]

That is not the kind of hardgainer they are talking about. They are talking about "non responders" to weight training. I am one for example. I've been at it for years, and after the first 2-3 months any meaningful muscle growth came to a complete halt. No matter how much I ate.

[@MrStreetninja007]

@@KorashSyndikat i gotta call bs on that

[@KorashSyndikat]

@@MrStreetninja007 Well, I am not addicted to alcohol. I can't possibly fathom that soemone might be addicted to drinking something that tastes so awful and makes you do stupid shit and fucks up your body and stuff. Yet, people can be like that. So you might not be a hardgainer or "Non responder" but those people exist. There are studies that show people losing muscle mass after exercise. Do you also call BS on that?

[@MrStreetninja007]

@@KorashSyndikat yeah after watching the video they clearly said they were a non-responder at that certain thing not in the overall it's a very nuanced and subjective thing like Eric when he said he ran a program and his lifts went down you wouldn't consider him a non-responder

[@Fletch_and1]

Had both books back in the day! 😃

[@SchmittsPeter]

Differences in individual response is the most intresting part of exercise science for me at the moment. I would also really love to see something like variation in response to amounts of protein (which would be terrible to test).

[@bigpicturegains]

Hmm. I’m a low volume guy myself. Some observations of mine are that my old higher volume self would not have as great set / rep quality and I lacked connection with my muscles I wanted to train to a big degree. I believe I trained with similar amounts of intensity with both methods too. I cannot see myself doing well with low volume if I was not able to improve set / rep quality, if I never put a priority on the skill of achieving high mind-muscle connection, and if I wasn’t able to marry those factors with a ferocious intensity.

[@taefithendo]

I tend to go just shy of true failure and do more sets. My body responds very well to high intensity, low rep, low rest and high sets. I noticed I only fatigue if I also rock climb as much as I workout as rock climbing seems to be more intense on my cns.

[@MrDevinferreira]

this is great, thanks for doing this.

[@kban77]

great video. Hit many main points. I suspect, however, there is a subset of people who don't work out hard or are a little lazy and they blame it on being a 'hardgainer'. So there is also the cognitive bias hardgainer to consider

[@Borderbeach]

MOST that blame are hardgainers just training hard enough and dont eat as much as they should. Most don’t need more volume tbh. That’s seen in real world. Research and real world don’t match as well as we want them to match.

[@gamerchristina1079]

Wonderful THANK YOU 💪💪❤️❤️‼️

[@lindsaytoussaint]

Really wish Eric would stop bullying Eric. I mean, Eric kinda had it coming, but really he should be the better Eric and let it go. edit: ok wow 48:05 😂 damn. Inspo.

[@wesrobinson7506]

Do you think that there is also a strong mental component in who can perform multiple reps (ex for the endurance trained athletes) ? I wonder if some people are more psychologically able to push further past the fatigue than others

[@emmang2010]

amazing

[@patrickpoblocki5962]

“Drinking to failure” (1:04) 😂

[@Vladd134]

Monster episode 🫡

[@dave0x]

What happened to the other Eric?

[@playmanA]

To be fair, the JM Blakely diet was from the perspective of an already massive enhanced westside powerlifter looking to move up a weight class at all cost.

[@griffingeode]

I am eating my egg McGainWich while i listen (down 15 pounds into my bulk)

[@sciencetheticsgainz]

Does anyone have the link to the first study he mentions? I belive it's hugh 2005 (the one of the bíceps curl)

[@spodergibbs5088]

What about those who dislike both Erics ?

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

I wish you would talk more about that study...no gains with no training experience after training intervention on biceps seems wild

[@Coachahmadreza]

Loved it

[@Satarnoch]

I think I have weird recovery genetics. I can do every other day 30-40 (work) set full body workouts but training back to back days wrecks me for a few days.

[@1aspirefit]

damn this is great info.

[@spodergibbs5088]

Tom platz is 68. Eric thought he was late 50’s early 60’s

[@RMBLRX]

I'm really wondering whether this applies uniformly across the musculature; as in is this dichotomy of response a central or peripheral phenomenon (if I can put it suchways)? Like, getting away with less volume on the lower body than the upper, for instance, I wonder whether that's more likely a feature of mechanical differences (and somewhat universal in cases where the mechanics are roughly equated) or attributable to something deeper.

[@Yupppi]

So would you prefer to do some studies that started as normal training programs, studying the results and adjusting the programs in different ways for the people who got lousy results?

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

I gas out so fast. I’ll train a set to failure and I’ll lose at least 2-3 reps. All but my back exercises.

[@bojanrajacic5045]

Most people lose reps after going to failure

[@Jmcnichol95]

If you’re training properly to failure then this will always be the case. That’s why I start with my top set and work the weight down from there

[@archmaesterofpullups]

Do you think that the groups of people who fatigue less always respond better to higher volume and people who fatigue more always hyper respond to lower volume or is it possible to both fatigue more and not respond well to lower volume (i.e. "bad genetics").

[@danielkanewske8473]

I would define a "hard gainer" as someone who is already well trained, experiences low appetite once a small caloric surplus is implemented, and who isn't, maybe has never, responding well to training. Obviously, the "hard gainer" notions in the fitness media are bullshit but, I believe, most men will fall into my definition, I certainly do!

[@EmilWestrum]

Is there a doctor in the room? Yes I think there is.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Gaining muscle IS hard and takes a long time, so if you're not putting in the work and the years of consistency, you'll think you're a hard gainer!

[@BackTwoBaySix]

That is not how we say advertisement lol

[@okkomp]

One does not simply eat Chinese food with a fork...

[@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn]

I would bet my life savings that the studies showing benefits with high volumes are due to poor perception of how many reps the subjects have left in the tank. If you’re training with 5+ reps in the tank OFCOURSE you need a ton of sets to get a stimulus. If you’re training to/close to real failure you don’t need and CANNOT DO high volume. All of the guys preaching high volume like Mike Israetel have been proven to be leaving tons of reps in the tank. Mike Israetel sets to “failure” don’t even have any bar speed slowdown.

[@NJN23]

agreed! For example, if you do 3 sets to (or very close to) failure, for 3 exercises for chest, additional volume will be junk volume. Do that twice a week, and you've maxed out what a natural can recover from (in my opinion in the vast majority of cases)

[@brendanbuchanan3543]

what lol. show me where it’s been proven that mike israetel does not train within proximity to failure. if you watch any of his personal training vlogs, he most certainly trains harder than he promotes you to train

[@miltkarr5109]

Didnt listen yet but i know the answer. And anything else is wrong. Cut volume to under 50 total sets a week w/no more than 20 sets compound movements. , no training to failure, eat more. Eat more, eat more.

[@jonnovak6856]

There's no such thing as a "hardgainer". Anyone who thinks they are one have never tracked their calories via measuring what they eat.

[@paulcox2447]

Gaining weight vs gaining muscle are 2 separate things. Everything comes on a spectrum saying there's no hard gainers is like saying there's no easy gainers and we all know that's a goddamn lie too. Some people build muscle easily, some dont. Most of us are in between.

[@miltkarr5109]

I just laugh at guys under 20% bodyfat that call themselves a hardgainer. They'll go on a diet as soon as they see a little fat roll over waistband when they sit down. You can't help these people.

[@4everB2]

​@@miltkarr5109Some people gain most fat around the waist and look terrible with 20% body fat, others have fat spread over the whole body and look like a beast when over 20% body fat. Also, the latter usually gain muscle easier.

[@miltkarr5109]

@@4everB2 well I've never known anyone I would consider jacked that didn't reach a high teens bodyfat for at least 6 months. S if someone is not willing to do it they will never be very studly, a ripped 165 lbs is about the best they could hope for.

[@Scott-et4kd]

No such thing as a "hard-gainer." There's just people who take advice from "experts." So, people got perfect form and all the latest "mass building supplenents," and became "hard gainers." Boyer Coe even famously lost muscle after taking advice from the Arthur Jones "logicians." Before about 1972, things were different, and EVERYBODY grew. We were called "muscle heads," because growing muscle was just about the biggest no-brainer imaginable .

[@akalion213]

Yes every human on the planet is exactly the same. What amazing insight.

[@Scott-et4kd]

@@akalion213 Did I state an empirical-or apriori proposition?

[@akalion213]

@@Scott-et4kd you're using those words together in a very weird way lmao. "No such thing as a hard gainer"

[@miltkarr5109]

Hardgainers need more food and less exercise.

[@stevemann1299]

No they need alot less. Volume is the reason they arent growing.