Ep 52 Genset Repair (Sailing Talisman)

[@robertcolvin3182]

Your channel is a great mix of mechanical, sailing and personal items of interest. Always fun to watch and educational in each of he areas of interest. Thanks for sharing.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks Robert. We appreciate the kind words.

[@hughburgess4168]

Kevin, I am in awe of your detailed problem solving. Just bought a Finnsailer 36 in April 2019. Little by little I am solving issues that arise. Starter solenoid, relocating aerial, furler and currently elbow water/air exhaust pipe, and much more. Oh I forgot, Eberspacher heater! Loving your videos, every aspect. Thank you.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Hugh. Thanks for the kind words. Indeed, it never ends. However, with time you will have fixed every system at least once and then you can diagnose the problem more quickly.

[@philbox4566]

I have to say that you'd have to be one of the most thorough and diligent yacht owners around. Have been following your various adventures in maintaining your yacht. Great stuff man, kudos to you.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks Phil. Happy to have you.

[@musajeremiah9328]

I dont mean to be offtopic but does anybody know a way to get back into an Instagram account? I was stupid lost the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.

[@curtisrodney4362]

@Musa Jeremiah instablaster =)

[@musajeremiah9328]

@Curtis Rodney i really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and Im in the hacking process now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@musajeremiah9328]

@Curtis Rodney it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thanks so much you saved my ass :D

[@soylentgreen2065]

I want you to know, the amount of effort you make on your videos and the information you offer are a valuable resource for this future boat owner. In fact, I was watching one of your videos the other night and had the idea to start a notebook to record the wisdom...very valuable resource. Thank you very much

[@SailingTalisman]

Thank you so much for the kind words. If there's ever a specific question just contact us via messenger. To your point, I now tell people that if they can get through the first year of boat ownership/cruising without doing any real damage to the boat or equipment, things will get easier from there. Folks are getting used to sitting down in their car and pressing a button to start the engine, without a care to how things work under the hood. It's just not that way with boats, and the way things work are a mystery to almost everyone who hasn't gone through the learning curve.

[@craigparish521]

Glad you were able to correct your issues on the gen. set . Good job 👍 I really think your yacht is beautiful! Great choice!

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks Craig!

[@arumrunner]

Kevin I love these videos! Thanks for taking the time to bring them to us. Cheers mate...

[@SailingTalisman]

No worries! Great to have you.

[@anthonyunsworth1288]

My god Kevin, this is turning into an essential sailing channel, you should start your own helpline and boat maintenance series. I never suspected this when you first started looking for your boat. Can we have more Wendy focussed episodes too? You both have top communiction skills. Thank you.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks so much Anthony! That means a lot. I just had Wendy read your comment and we'll work to make that happen. Wendy's been shy in the past, but she's been doing more video lately and I think we can work some more footage of her in. BTW, I feel like I know so little sometimes since these systems have thwarted me repeatedly, but we find the answers as issues arise.

[@patricklaine6958]

Nice info - well-presented. Thanks. I don't know if they make them for gensets, but I put 'SpeedSeal' covers on my impellor pump on the main engine. It does away with the 6 bolts and paper gasket (or sealant like you use). Instead, they machine a grove in the cover, and insert a simple rubber gasket in the groove. It tightens down (finger tight only) with four screws -- and you get a perfect seal. It's wonderful --- change an impellor in three minutes. Again, very nice video.

[@SailingTalisman]

I've seen them and would like to try one out someday. Prior to the bolts (which I added - the washers are because the bolts are microscopically too long) there were slotted screws that were literally impossible to remove even with an offset screwdriver. You had to remove the whole pump. That's the kind of think that I just shake my head at. Thanks for watching and if you ever want to join for a few days or a week, let us know.

[@crgmrgn]

SpeedSeal were indeed a great solution, they are now out of business, so you'll need to find someone with existing stock (good luck!), until someone copies or licenses the idea for further production ...

[@SailingTalisman]

Good to know Craig. Thanks for watching.

[@johnbokenkamp3660]

Great job. You are the only place I have heard of the weak link in the system. The heat sink looking block that runs raw water around the stator housing. I am working on one now that is completely clogged and of course everyone is talking about the heat exchanger and I just went through the hassle of lifting the engine to get heat exchanger out only to find it is fine. The problem is in the stator housing so one clog is all you need to shut the system down. I'm glad you got it together and hope I can get those passageways cleaned out as well. I sure wish I had seen your video before I dug the heat exchanger out. thank you.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi John. What's it clogged with? Fischer Panda tells me the stators with the water cooling are very fragile with thin aluminum walls. They do not recommend using harsh chemicals like Barnacle Buster, but rather a diluted (acid) cleaner somewhat stronger than vinegar, but not too strong. I know that's vague, but that's how they describe it. Try calling Fischer Panda in Florida too. Talk to Jarvis Angelety / service manager. He's a cool guy. BTW, you can usually get away with just tipping the engine back to get to the heat exchanger. Remove the hoses at the far ends rather than at the HE itself, then snake them through. Always start with the simple stuff. Disconnect the raw water pump exit hose and make sure you're getting high pressure gushing water. A bad belt, pump, or impeller will reduce pressure and overheating will result. Use a laser thermometer to check temps at the thermostat housing. Should be seeing 80 degrees centigrade. Pull thermostat entirely to make sure it isn't faulty, and see if that improves temps. I've actually never heard of the the stator cooling circuit being clogged. As you saw in the video, for us it actually ended up being a carbon clogged exhaust mixing elbow that was preventing the exit water from entering the exhaust.

[@johnbokenkamp3660]

@@SailingTalisman Thanks for the reply. It turns out the the big problem was the mounting plate for the dynamo. It was totally blocked so there was no water coming out the exhaust. The heat exchanger is out and is in fine shape. The mounting plate is all corroded and needs a new one. We will see how much that goes but at any rate the plate would be a good thing to check when you have reduced water pressure. I used air on the dynamo water jacket and it seems fine.

[@OrvilleHarmison]

Excellent video Keven ... I like your clear concise way of explanation of not only WHAT your are doing but also WHY you are doing it. You also go into the details of good and bad engineering practices and how that plays out when working on something. I guarantee that if engineers had to work on the things they design there would be a lot of "user friendly" changes made. I have been following you since you were looking for a boat and find your videos both very informative and entertaining. Cheers to you both on a job well done.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Obit. As I said to another commenter recently, this is the type of feedback that makes the work on the videos worthwhile. Thanks so much.

[@johnnyhag675]

Nice job troubleshooting the genset. Really enjoying the project videos. Thanks for sharing.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks Johnny. It really was a challenging issue that tested my patience.

[@billhanna8838]

I had the same prob. with impala , same make same model but now made in China - were not up to scratch, seen the same with zinc blocks , look good but inferior.Great job , love the way you explain things , may you always have wind on your aft quarter.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Bill. Yep. When Fisher Panda was first entering the Marine Genset market, around the time Talisman was built, they were all but giving them away to gain market share. But there were growing pains, and the design of our model was changed radically, especially as regards the stator, almost immediately. We don't expect this genset to last too much longer, but we'll stick with it until it stops working. The last owner installed a new Kabuta diesel engine, so that side is probably strong. But the stator is no longer made and it wouldn't be worth the cost anyway.

[@sk4256]

Like the others have said before me: great video, good detail and explanation. Thank you for taking the extra time to walk us through and then prepare the video. I really like these technical ones because one day it will be me trying to figure this stuff out! Sk in the UK.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks Stephen. I always feel like my tech videos are leaving a bit to be desired. They're really not how-to in the true sense, but more a look into what we're dealing with.

[@TheRectory33]

Just viewed this post. Great stuff and well thought through. I have a 4Kw Fischer Panda genset and had the heat alarm sensor trigger the on exhaust and cylinder but not the water (lights on mine Green = good, Amber = warning, Red = auto shut down). When running the lights on the exhaust and engine sensors would go to amber about 10mins which concerned me. Talked to the agent in the UK and suggested I clean the sensors which I took off, thoroughly cleaned for good contact and now have green lights across the board when running her. Very simple fix but suspect a common problem. Happy sailing.

[@SailingTalisman]

Thanks for the tips Mike. A lot of our viewers are looking to cruise and I tell them all the time, it's about keeping these systems running. Each of them has quirks and wants to go down if everything isn't perfect. We had our go out and pressing the start switch did nothing. Turned out it was the little blue fuse mounted near the wiring panel on the block.

[@TheRectory33]

@@SailingTalisman Agreed and often it is a case of running down the problem like your approach to fixing your genset. Also getting to know where everything is. Boats are complex beasts especially if you have lots of stuff and the boat manuals are generally useless. I had the shore power trip go which should be simple reset but it took two hours to find the trip switch which was mounted inside the steering quadrant! I know now.

[@SailingTalisman]

Man, isn't that how it always is. The good news is that after about 2 years you get to know where most things are.

[@TheRectory33]

@@SailingTalisman Spooky, I have now owned my boat for just coming up to two years and think now I have a handle on it. Luckily based in a marina so always got some guy at hand when needs go beyond my pay-grade. Shortly off on our summer cruise for 3 months. Where are you guys at the moment?

[@SailingTalisman]

We just got back to Greece, and now it's refit time on the boat with probably over 100 projects. Some are large and some are small but all have been those little nagging things that annoy me. I'm giving it 3 weeks to complete, and then we're off to the Aegean.

[@Roucasson]

Brent Grimbeek, on Cat Impi, got rid of the generator built-in pump and installed a dedicated electric pump in the bilge to circulate raw water in the generator... No more problem with the impeller, and easier maintenance. See his videos.

[@joesv-blueeyes7785]

Can you give us the link, please

[@Roucasson]

Jeremy Lavallin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJrFcpWsgsp6i5o . Brent has described how he coped with a number of technical issues on his boat, like upgrading to Lithium batteries, or reverse osmosis, in different videos, and on his blog... enjoy !

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Dominique. Well the one thing is that I never try to fix something that isn't broken, and the genset is working pretty well at the moment. It's something to keep in mind for the future though. Thanks for watching.

[@georgesbonellodupuis8245]

I’ve had very similar issues with my Vetus genset. Great video.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Georges. I think organic growth might occur inside if you don't keep them running. Also the scaling issue. But things are working now and I'm not going to worry until that changes.

[@georgesbonellodupuis8245]

Sailing Yacht Talisman probably. In ten years I’ve replaced a heat exchanger, an exhaust thermostat and 2 water pumps and a circulating pump.!! But it’s perfect now hahaha. And giving me hours of unhindered service.

[@SailingTalisman]

It's a constant struggle to keep systems up and running. Watermakers are the worst. 50% or more of them out there need new membranes at a minimum. I suspect that most listed as "pickled" will mysteriously turn out to be inoperable.

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Great to meet you guys in Sivota the other day. In the Mediterranean you really do not need a genset if you have solar and a good battery bank. We can run our refrigerator 24/7 (which I have to do as I have medication in the fridge). Oh and we only use an electric kettle, toaster, charge laptops and iPads. We can even run the investor all night for 230v larger fans. Never have an issue with power. Free and clean electric 😀 Fair winds and following seas WHUATI crew

[@SailingTalisman]

Oh Jay. How great was that! We were so happy to see you guys. Need to chat about power usage, and on that front you seem like the man. We have a 230v fridge and a 24v gel battery bank w/ 420ah. Not sure what to do with it all. Our refrigeration is due for replacement as it's losing coolant every few months.

[@bradlarden]

Interesting and informative video. Many thanks for sharing.

[@SailingTalisman]

You bet Brad.

[@allynonderdonk7577]

You might try hitting up Globe Marine for a Run-Dry impeller. they last three times longer than a standard impeller. The only thing different is the are a blue color. They are three times more durable and last three times as long, only generally costing between 10-20 more.

[@SailingTalisman]

Wow Allyn. Great to hear. I always say that if the space shuttle couldn't launch without a run-dry impeller, one would show up within days. I'll look into it.

[@justinsteele5822]

Great tip on shutting engine sea cock and opening quickly once started ⛵️👍

[@notanxiousanxiety]

Very informative video, thanks for sharing

[@SailingTalisman]

You bet!

[@ronobrien7187]

Raw water impellers are positive displacement pumps. Bilge pumps are centrifugal. I haven't heard of a positive displacement bilge pump.

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Ron. The Jabsco Maxi Puppy series of utility pumps are used in many marine. agricultural, and industrial applications. Their only real responsibility is to be able to lift a certain water column a certain height, ie. perhaps a meter, and not need to be primed first. These pumps have been installed on almost every Oyster I've been on, although I'm not sure what they're using now. I know that ours is amazingly powerful, and when it comes on it'll drain 6" of bilge water in about 20 seconds. We also have a huge Jabsco 1.1/2" diameter hose engine driven (impeller) bilge pump with a manual clutch. Were the boat to be hulled and we were taking on major water, this would be the ticket to give us the time needed to slow the ingress. I imagine that pump would drain a bathtub in short order. Once water gets up to your batteries, you're pretty much screwed.

[@ronobrien7187]

@@SailingTalisman OK Thanks. I have heard of centrifugal type pump attachments to the prop shaft for emergencies, I had just never heard of a positive displacement pump used as a bilge pump. But I not on an Oyster either. Be well, safe voyages.

[@bill4nier]

Great video, Kevin! Thanks for sharing. Would you say that many of the repairs you have done were a result of "ignorant" maintenance? Can't really say poor maintenance because it was done, just not to manufactures guidelines/standards. Also when looking at purchasing a used boat are these areas really difficult to find or address during the inspection phase prior to purchase? Thanks again for sharing.

[@SailingTalisman]

Boy, great question. For me, I think I never really understood how hard it is on marine systems to have them sit idle for a long time. Talisman sat on land in the marina for 7 years prior to our buying her, and I firmly believe that the survival of these systems goes back to the fact the Oyster only used the best of the best when the boat was originally built. You can try to do maintenance, and this winter while the boat is on the hard in Greece I'll do oil, filter, and coolant changes on the engine and genset, as well as swapping out selected impellers, but things are still going to break and leak. In the end, the stuff that needs attention is always growing. Last week the zinc on our propeller inexplicable fell off with all the screws still in place, and the dinghy is losing a lot of air. Often, it's weird stuff like that. Nothing you would predict.

[@bill4nier]

Wow, 7 years! I knew trying to figure out what would break was near impossible. Maybe I have too high of an expectation. Thanks for your insight.

[@SailingTalisman]

You bet. I think with time you become pretty good at debugging your own systems. Last night, after all the work on the video, the genset starter wasn't coming on when the button was pressed. My mind immediately leaped to the worst, but I knew there was a starter fuse located at the unit and checked that first, It had vibrated loose and all I had to do was reinstall. Boom, back in action 10 minutes later.

[@basiaboy]

You mentioned you had lost a vane from the first impeller, were able to locate that lost Vance within the the filter housing or beyond?

[@SailingTalisman]

Yeah, luckily the outlet and elbow pretty much prevent the vanes from leaving the pump housing. That's not how all pumps are though and I've heard of broken vanes really clogging things up in the heat exchangers.

[@RH-lz3om]

Can you not run the refrigeration via the main engine, as well as via the gen. set?

[@SailingTalisman]

The Frigoboat 24v system we installed 3 years ago has been a huge upgrade. It runs off the house battery bank and cools all day and night, instead of perhaps once a day while at anchor and using the generator during battery charging time. Much better on energy and reliability. Our old Grunart system was terrible by comparison.

[@RH-lz3om]

@@SailingTalisman Thank you! I am looking at a 38 ft boat with a discontinued Panda 4200 with 170 hrs on it. Seem like I would be taking on a lot of uncertainty regarding fidelity of the older system and I am not sure what to do about that in the run-up to purchase. Test it I suppose. Up to a solid run temperature and load it up with the A/C and fridge. What else, I wonder. (?)

[@georgemulligan8958]

I am constantly cleaning my sea water strainers. How did yours get so clogged?

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi George. Our problem wasn't the raw water strainers, but we suspect the heat exchanger. I have found that strainers can be clean one moment and clogged the next. It just takes one clump of weed. But to your point, I check ours probably weekly nowadays. The Med is almost bereft of sea life, so very little in the way of weed around unless pulled up by anchors. Thanks for watching.

[@tomriley5790]

Did you mention the sealant you use?

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Tom. I forget what I was using sealant for in that video. Remind me and I’ll let you know.

[@tomriley5790]

@@SailingTalisman No worries - was just thinking it might come in useful to know one day :-)! Thanks for replying!

[@niccat7051]

Great video, very informative!! What are your thoughts on solar? 👍

[@SailingTalisman]

Funny you should mention solar. There's not a boat in Scotland (where Talisman came from) that will ever show solar panels. They get sun about twice a year. I'm kidding, but just. However, we're in places and will always be in places that have good sun, so we think about it often. However, on the other side of the coin is the fact that the larger the boat the more common it is to just run generator power or go to a marina with power. We're on the fence as I like the idea greatly but don't know where we'd install. There aren't a lot of good spots. So far we've focused on reducing consumption, and have been quite successful there. Our house battery bank shows 8 or 9 days of capacity on a full charge. This does not and can not include refrigeration or water heating since they work on 220vac power. We can obviously do without hot water, but the water heater does get heated whenever the engine is on and it stays hot for at least 2 days. So refrigeration is the main thing, and our genset uses so little diesel that it's not really expensive to keep going. TMI, I'm sure, but this is my thought process spelled out.

[@niccat7051]

Lol...sun twice a year in Scotland 😂😂 I think your being generous 😉

[@arid7315]

Interesting to hear (from you and many others) of the issues with Gen Sets. Now as to solar: we have flexible monocrystalline panels on our dodger and Bimini that are 100 W each. There are two 100’s on the Bimini, with a 50W in the middle, and another 100 W on the dodger. In a 12 V system, the current will max out at 19 A. We’ve never reached that as our bank totals 270 A-hrs, and even with our fridge and all systems running, on cloudy days, we have sufficient power - about 8-12 A. Bottom line, I personally try and avoid more crap that requires maintence. For a 485, you can mount a wind turbine and around 300-400 W of flexible panels that will more than likely keep your batteries topped precluding much genset useage. Best.

[@ronobrien7187]

Panda Fisher has had control issues for many years. The manufacturer has not acknowledged the issue and offered no warranty.

[@SailingTalisman]

The Fischer Panda line is not well regarded in the marine industry, I'll admit. But it fills a need in that they are extremely compact. They achieve this by running a constant, high rpm, thus the thick sound shield. Our 6kva model runs at 3000rpms from the moment it's turned on. And we do not have the space in the engine compartment for anything bigger. If you go with Kohler, Northern Lights, Cummins, etc, the unit will be much larger and run at lower rpms, using the torque of a larger diesel engine to drive the stator. In many ways the Fischer Panda line appears as a portable jobsite genset, similar to the (gas powered) Honda generators. It's just permanently mounted. When ours goes down it's almost certain to be from cooling (clogged raw water intake) or fuel starvation due to dirty Racor fuel filter. It doesn't help that our auxiliary 12v fuel pump is barely up to the task, meaning that that part isn't really Fischer Panda's fault.

[@ronobrien7187]

@@SailingTalisman I am looking at gensets for my Grand Banks 36 and have come to the same conclusions. Still thinking on the subject. Thanks.

[@SailingTalisman]

@@ronobrien7187 Yep, it's a quandary. If it helps, the Fischer Panda engine (in ours, and I believe currently) is a Kabuta diesel, and is well regarded for its reliability and longevity. And I do believe FP have resolved most of their issues. The factory techs are easy to get ahold of in person and answer questions truthfully and offer real-world solutions.

[@ronobrien7187]

@@SailingTalisman Good to know. The Cummins Onan uses the Kubota engines also. Good power plant. Thanks for your help.

[@290Alenka]

Hi Guys, Kioni - You are in our next of the woods but I'm guessing that was a few months ago and you have moved on by now. If you are still in the area September time I will show you just how cold you get get beer using solar power alone! Have fun. sy FAIR GAME

[@johnmoore6574]

290Alenka Q

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Alenka. Find our email in the "About" tab and get in touch. I filmed that short bit at the end literally hours before I finished the video. We're in Port Atherinos today, but heading somewhere else around the corner later. We have parts being shipped to Fiscardo, so we'll be local for a while.

[@tancolvis5240]

raw water coming in needs a filter to your water maker same for yr engines raw water coming in place a filter to cool your engine.

[@SailingTalisman]

Yes, there's a raw water strainer each on the genset, engine and refrigerator. Only the watermaker has the big filtration system, and actual filters clog up too fast for the major flow associated with the first three. I haven't checked these strainers in a while and I think I'll do so later today. Thanks for reminding me.

[@tancolvis5240]

have seen sailing turtle have many filters on standby on waters coming into his sailing boats , he also have clog debits .

[@SailingTalisman]

Hi Tan. So first, let's define what's being discussed. A raw water strainer is technically a filter, in the same way a storm drain is one. However, in the marine world when you say filter, it's usually going to be a paper or other disposable/single use product that will remove particulates in the 5-50 micron range. Thus, oil, fuel, and air filters, plus watermaker membranes and pre-filters all meet this criteria. Strainers will serve a different purpose in that they are used to prevent infiltration of basic organic debris such as seaweed, leaves, grass, and items like pieces of plastic and wood. Usually you can dump the collected items out of the basket or strainer and reinstall. The thing to understand is that you cannot substitute one for the other. In the case of a cooling circuit for a genset, engine, air conditioning unit, or refrigerator, which is what we have in the above video, the cooling requirements are specified by the manufacturer (usually in gallons or liters per minute of cooling water flow). In conjunction with the properly sized pump, piping diameter, and the known resistance inherent in the through hull valves and raw water strainer, the proper flow rate will be achieved or exceeded. Installing an actual (paper or similar) filter will greatly reduce this flow of water through the cooling circuit, leading to the unit running hot. Even adding elbows to the piping will reduce flow, and typically there are technical tables in the install instructions to calculate the max number of 90 degree turns in a system. In short, you do not want to deviate from the design dictated by the manufacturer unless you really know what you are doing. The equipment is just too expensive to take chances with. You may be mistaking a large strainer system for a filter, but it's important that I make all of this clear because there are a lot of people reading these comments. As always, I appreciate the discussion.

[@tancolvis5240]

foreign objects sucked up intake sea water to cool your parts