Epiphany: Angel 2x16 Reaction

[@MrSupertallblackman]

"If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." Greatest lines ever. Kate never invited Angel into her place and she's implying that some higher power (maybe the Powers that be maybe something else) is helping them fight the good fight which gives Angel extra motivation to keep going. For those keeping count this Cordelia supernatural pregnancy number 2.

[@HH-hd7nd]

That's one explanation for what happened at Kate's appartment. The other one is that she did in fact die and he brought her back - the rule that a vampire is not able to enter a human's house uninvited is only a thing as long as the human is alive.

[@Nexusofgeek]

well not sure if this was a pregnancy or not, they did refer to it as a spawn. Whatever you call it, was definitely not consensual and creepy AF.

[@jeffmartin5504]

The way I see it is that kate did not die but probably would have if Angel did not show up. The Powers that be stepped in to allow Angel to cross the threshold and save Kate. I assume when they show her coming alive and coughing that she also probably (induced?) vomiting quite a bit which may have helped prevent death. The reason is what kate says 'we are not alone this...because I never invited you in.' I think this means she did not die ( not even temporarily) but would have if Angel did not show up. Just my 2 cents :)

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@jeffmartin5504 I'm not saying that she did die, just saying it's a possibility.

[@g1xrider13]

The dying thing for vampires entering means their soul has to leave their body. It has nothing to do with physical death, a mortal soul considering a place home prevents a vampire from entering unless invited, so the soul must leave this plane of existence for a vampire to cross the threshold like with Kate’s father.

[@Andrew04291]

“If nothing we do matters” gets me through life.

[@Tantalus010]

The thing about Kate not inviting Angel in can be taken in several ways: 1. Kate died temporarily, thus negating the need for an invite. 2. The PTB intervened and allowed Angel to break the invite rule. I like that they left it intentionally vague so people can pick the explanation they prefer.

[@sherrysink3177]

I love your discussion about the changes in Wesley - I too love how much his character has grown. I never would have expected that after seeing his character on Buffy. Had you told me I'd love him as a character, I would have laughed and said, "Yeah, right." But I do. I really do love Wesley as a character now, and it's all due to his development on Angel the series. He's still funny, but they've given him a depth that makes me connect and care about him so much more.

[@KrisBrostrom]

Yeah, I think "you saved me" is the notion that sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can stand back up. A person can feel they must make all the choices they're making until they look around and see where those choices brought them. That was Darla for Angel.

[@sherrysink3177]

The team's back! 🎉🎉 I'd never been so happy as to see them all decide to work together. It was SO hard to see Angel abandon all of them and them not trust him anymore (with good reason). Also, after all the darkness, it was nice to have a little humor in the mix in this episode. Angel awkwardly trying to get back in their good graces is hilarious. "I recently had a gut wound too...and I had an epiphany." Oh, Angel. Lol.

[@Teeklin]

"If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do" is the ethos of the entire show and the sums up life itself for a lot of people. It's one to keep in mind and a lens to watch the show through going forward.

[@killianlpc]

I think Epiphany was a really good episode. The writing was brilliant, with Darla saying to Angel 'was I not good' the exact words Buffy said to him in Innocence is S2 of BTVS after they had sex, great writing indeed. Great comedy too when Darla says not only have I got 400 years of experience, but used to do this professionally! Another shocking scene with Kate overdosing and Angel trying to revive her. Great comedy moment too when Wesley invites Angel in when the Demon is in his house, and real fun again when Gunn says' you just wake up and bang, and Angel says sort of the other way around. Lindsay knocking down Angel a great scene was out of the blue, and the terrific scene when Angel smashes the prosthetic arm. A touching part with Kate and Angel towards the end too. Angel apologising was a great scene too when Cordy says' why wasn't I on the floor, and of course Angel is holding her. The old order is restored.

[@theadamabrams]

7:12 They use green/yellow goo to avoid the censorship rating that would come if they showed "blood" all over someone.

[@singingwolf3929]

I was just coming to mention this. "Blood/Gore" is more acceptable when it doesn't resemble "Human Blood/Gore". Which is why shows like Game of Thrones (without the nudity and sex) wouldn't be able to air on Network Television.

[@jayjordan9582]

That line, "if nothing that we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." That line, has never ever left me. It's beautiful, it's if there's nothing in the vacuum of existence, then all that can exist is your choices, and if you make good choices then maybe that will be what there is. Gray Angel? I always liked Fallen Angel, though I never thought of him as fallen. I truly believe that Angel separating from the team & his destiny & making his own choices, good & bad, is so truly important to being a human, a real person. Cordy's vision for instance, she got it just before the attack, since Angel fired them Cordy hasn't had many visions. The visions were always more about guiding Angel in the fight than caring about everyone, at least from my perspective. I think Angel going through hell to get to the other side has to help him grow, at least I hope so. Funnily enough it reminded me of Buffy trying to break away from the Scoobies because she's the Slayer, part of the character growth. There was also a truly nice touch with Kate reminding Angel she didn't invite him in, she's has never invited Angel into her place, so maybe there is something more. Thanks for the double reaction Dakara, hope you're having a great week.

[@JohnnyD10055]

14:15 "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed."

[@jzchillin]

And there we have the end of the "darkish Angel" arc and a turn in the relationships between he and his crew, and a new path for our champion to tred... and like so many have mentioned gave us a fantastic line: "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do".... and a reason for he (as well as Kate) believe that there may be a higher power helping them out..... Just a great close to a great arc, and a great reaction as always, D! A well earned CTU for you today! Keep em coming!

[@keshaponso2034]

Wow. Grey Angel. That's perfect.

[@mrmidlife2546]

I love this episode. It actually made me stop and re-evaulate my life. It's a form of nihilism, but to be able to accept that there's no reward waiting at the end of everything and still be kind is a strength that eludes even the most devoutly religious.

[@sherrysink3177]

Kate did kick Angel out in an earlier episode and say he was no longer welcome (maybe after her dad died?), so Angel being able to come into her home anyway shows there could be some Powers that Be at work, trying to help, because she wasn't dead (the only other way Angel would normally be able to come in without invite) and she hadn't invited him in. Perhaps there's a bigger plan for Angel, and even though there will always be darkness in the world, there will also always be goodness and light. Random funny: I do love Wesley inviting Angel in after the demons smash through the window. "Yes. No. Absolutely. I invite you in. *In* I invite you!" LOL.

[@empire4542]

Hey You kind of looks like Maisie Williams (arya starks from Game of thrones) 😂

[@RedundantHuman-CandyBites]

“No. You really hurt my feelings” 🥹

[@castorpollux5972]

Post nut clarity 😭

[@Belnick6666]

it was like "a moment of clarity"he was going down a darker and darker path, he failed to save the human darla, he did is everything, but still she was killed and most likely in hell now and demon took over the body...he lost his "faith"....nothing he did would ever matter, or at elast that is how far he had come before he bedded darla

[@stevenrod100]

Yes, this is the last time we see Kate. After this Elizabeth Rohm joined the cast of Law and Order full time.

[@godmagnus]

As stated before, sex doesn't end the curse, happiness does. Wesley wasn't unconscious, divine intervention wasn't needed.

[@roderick8167]

This episode is so amazing I love that Angel is reconnecting with Cordelia, Wesley and Gunn and of course it's gonna take some time Angel was a real jerk to them after all but at least they are giving him a shot to make it up to them 🙌🙏♥️

[@pieceofgosa]

Ejaculation is not a "moment of perfect happiness". I would go with "moment of extreme satisfaction" but that's hardly the same thing. As should have been obvious, this episode confirms that Angel's happiness was 0% sex related & 100% Buffy related.

[@singingwolf3929]

Sometimes it's not even that.

[@singingwolf3929]

Injecting your spawn into the back of someone's head adds a whole new level to the term...nevermind.

[@SoutheastTx]

Angel over here breaking blonde women hearts and then we have Linsey asking for details. Some people learn the hard way. In the few episodes of Buffy and in this show she was more interested in Angel/Angelus. She looked jealous of Buffy's and Angel's relationship. After Angel got his soul we didn't see any flashbacks of her making herself another mate like she did with Angel. We did see her trying to get the gypsies to take away the curse. Kinda looks like she bonded with Angel evil or not that's the guy she wants. But she'll prefer him without a soul.

[@Buffy8Fan]

Angel got the same reaction out of Darla as Angelus got from Buffy. Whether or not Angel will ever admit it, he and Angelus are similar in some ways. I personally think that Liam's personality and Angelus' personality combine to equal the personality of Angel's personality. It doesn't even detract from my theory that Angel is the curse (Angel is not cursed, Angelus is). Angelus is cursed with Liam and together they create the personality of Angel, but without Liam's soul, Angelus isn't cursed with Angel. All this is why Angel can sometiomes act like Angelus, but Angelus never acts like Angel. Darla and Buffy having the same lines isn't only a good twist on the audience thinking Angelus isn't returning, but seeing how the curse works. Angel hasn't been evil this season. Not turning into Angelus just woke him up from heading down the path of punishing the guilty over saving the helpless (and Angel being on that wrong path was due to guilt over staking Darla/his sire/someone he genuinly cares about back in the BtVS episode entitled _Angel,_ thinking he has a second chance to redeem that moment and some Angelus moments). Even Lorne describes it as seeing Darla sleeping next to him and crying out in horror (he just uses different words). He was never losing his soul. The end of the last episode was a good fake out, but in-universe Angel couldn't lose his soul because of the reasons he said, and because she reminds him of his guilt (therefore perfect happiness couldn't trigger him) whereas Buffy made him forget (therefore perfect happiness triggered the curse ending). Darla (as well as much of the fanbase sometimes still) doesn't understand it wasn't about being happy or having sex, but about not feeling guilt. I love Angel being able to enter Kate's him without an invitation in this one situation. It lets the audience know what the PTB can do if they feel it serves a bigger picture. In this case, the bigger picture is that saving Kate is getting him back on the hero track. But I don't believe Kate was dead. Just close to. The PTB's don't care about her enough for them to resurrect her, in my opinion.

[@StephOMacRules]

In my case, Angelus is just Liam's darkest self void of any empathy / soul and Angel is back to Liam feeling empathy + all the guilt from the things he did without a soul that came back haunting him and living a life as an outcast with limited social interactions.

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@StephOMacRules That's why I've never been a fan of people saying the curse was badly written. There's a lot of ways to interpret it and how it works rather than just spell all details out to the audience.

[@Davidscomix]

@@StephOMacRulesLiam was just him as a human, he was the soul that angelus lacked

[@Talisguy]

The show often parallels Angel's path of redemption to a recovering addict trying to stay sober. Sex with Darla "saved him" because it was the metaphorical equivalent of him waking up in bed with a woman he hated after a three-day drinking binge. This was rock bottom for him. And speaking as a recovering alcoholic, yeah, moments like that can indeed give you the necessary perspective to realise that your life is in the toilet and you've made some terrible choices, and you need to change

[@shercahn]

If their blood and guts is a different color than red, they can show more because it's not realistic for the censors.

[@PurpleNurpleSPN]

And yet I find yellow or green more disgusting and gross than if it was just red blood... I can handle red, but yellow and green reminds me more of other fluids which grosses me out!

[@shercahn]

@@PurpleNurpleSPN - True, it is a bit snotty.

[@Tantalus010]

I figured they just grabbed the cheapest color of goo at the Halloween store.

[@codypendragons]

Sweetie he is over 200 years old, he was never gone. It was him the whole time. He was just processing some things, but he's been through a lot worse times. I mean he was a rat eater for a 100 years.

[@rexracer3221]

Kate never invited Angel in. Either 'The Powers That Be' stepped in or Kate temporarily died from her OD. It's the viewers choice on that one. IF nothing matters, than everything you do matters, because it's your free will.

[@izhirallen8746]

All the matters is what we do. Angel did break his true love Cordelia and their friends's hearts to he protect them from Wolfram And Hart Enterprise, his first love Darla and his old friend Drusilla during his dark phases. Connor is Angel and Darla's second chance. Connor is Angel and Darla's salvation.

[@67Daidalos]

If Kate feels better by thinking there's a superior force watching them, if it helps her to go on, then good for her. But I think the writers were actually smart enough to let a more prosaic explanation about why Angel could have come in her flat without being invited. She had stop breathing, we know it for sure, as when taken under the shower, she started breathing again. But we, the audience, have no clue about her still having a pulse at that moment. If she didn't , then she could be considered technically dead. Thus Angel didn't needed an invitation to came in and, hopefully, he did it in the few minutes between the heart stop beating and the brain cease functioning, so he could have revived her.

[@ryan1976]

I have mixed feelings about Kate. I love the concept of the character, but Elisabeth Röhm, I’m sorry, is not a great actor. She’s so wooden. I would have been fine with recasting Kate with someone who could have brought more to the performance.