Episode 1: Old Believers

A very brief intro into Old Believers, the story of my involvement in the co-called Old Orthodox faith and how I became Catholic.
P.S. Quote by Saint Basil is actually from On Holy Spirit (De Spiritu Sancto). Also the Rite of Accepting the Jacobites aka the Rite of Renounciation for the Jacobites says: "Whosoever does not cross himself with two fingers, let him be anathema". This was later quoted by the Hundred Chapter Council (1551).

[@JohnPeterPressonProtopsaltis]

@The Russian Catholic Insider --I find this interesting --as a Byzantine chanter, I think that the Old Believer "movement" in Russia was not as crazy as they were made out to be. I think that the Old Ritualists were (and are) a legitimate reaction to some rather aggregious innovations , not only in ritual but in sacred iconography and sacred music in the abandonment of canonical monophonic chants which have enjoyed pride of place and historic continuity in the Church up until the 17-19th Century.

[@mestredasdesilusoes7639]

Quite interesting, I look forward to the next one.

[@alexmakhtin]

You are wrong on many concepts of old believers. Do not know when did you get all this. Such as old believers think that they read many books and thats why they are know more. Or we only have a limited amount of books or donot know for sure why we cross ourselfs with two fengers. All you know is sound premature. If you really want to know about Nikon reform read Melnikov or Kutuzov.

[@seanbrittmusic6152]

Thank you for this information. Exploring Russian Catholicism, glory to God

[@F2222m]

Bro keep posting videos your content is really good.

[@thomaslippert5882]

Have you considered releasing these in podcast format?

[@nunya2954]

Hi, I see this has been up for over a year. Can you tell me anything about your Piano? I have one very similar. Thank you

[@TradOrganist]

Hello, I have a very good friend of mine who was protestant: he is or was in the process of becoming traditionalist catholic but he visited the orthodox church before for a year. He actually is doubting now and might become (russian) orthodox. How can I help him? He especially has a problem with the first vatican council

[@FoothillsFreedom]

Can you link a source to the saint basil quotes? Thanks

[@ThiagoSantosdeMoraes]

Waiting for the next video ;)

[@tullius.soundvideos6250]

Could you reproduce your exposition in a text? It would be very interesting. Thanks

[@PaulNizinskyj]

@4:58 I think the problem with Old Believers, as beautiful and pious as their movement is, is their insularity. It is absurd to claim that baptism by 'sprinkling' is invalid when the Didache - the oldest surviving catechism, composed in the first century - explicitly affirms its validity. The Didache was not rediscovered until 1873, more than 200 years after the Raskol, but I wonder how many have read it since? As important as it is that they have preserved the old rituals and vindicated as they were in doing so (given we now know the pre-Nikonian rituals were simply older than the contemporary Greek ones, not corrupted), I can't help feeling that they have turned them into an idol.

[@Kristina3409]

We still do not have priest. We live in small communities still.

[@kayedal-haddad]

How does Old Believers differ from Old Calendarist’s?

[@KRMGNN_999]

The Old Believer/Ritual movement was a reaction to the liturgical reforms of Patriarch Nikon of Moscow in the mid-17th century. There are wide variations between Old Believer groups and their specific views on ecclesiology, but what unites them all is their practice of the 'Old ritual' (use of the lestovka, slavonic version of the creed, two finger sign of the cross, etc.) Old Calenderists also differ amongst themselves and are only unified on one particular issue. They are exactly the same as mainstream Eastern Orthodox Christianity in terms of theology and liturgical practice, the only difference is that Old Calendarists reject the Revised Julian Calendar (which brought the old Byzantine Julian liturgical calendar into accordance with the Gregorian church calendar of the Roman Catholic Church.) This was instituted by Patriarch Meletius IV of Constantinople and the so-called 'Pan-Orthodox Council' in 1923. Because this was done for the purpose of ecumenism and because the Ecumenical Patriarch does not have the canonical authority to make such a change, numerous bishops of the Greek Church (both in Greece and amongst the Greek diaspora,) as well as many other national Churches, separated themselves from the canonical Church and were declared 'schismatic.' Although the Old Believers and the Old Calendarists rarely interact and mostly view each other in the same way as they view the mainstream Church, they have some crossover (search "the jurisdictions of Metropolitan Damascene of the catacomb church of Moscow and Archbishop Auxentios of Athens" for more on that.)

[@alexmakhtin]

We don't have any inconsistencies in Orthodox old believers. You saw the only top of the iceberg. But you think you know it.

[@tav475]

Двойного троекратного погружения у Вас не было. Вы крестились один раз полным погружением. Очень жаль, что соединились ныне с огромной мистической сектой, далеко ушедшей от чистого Христианства.

[@jakobmunckcopenhagen7001]

Very interesting. I am a Catholic from Denmark and I know a lot of Russians living here in my country. I like Russia, but I don't share the ideas of the Orthodox Church of Russia. I see Orthodoxy as some kind of sect, since they left the Church more than a thousand years ago, after the 7th Council (787). I am very interested in the conditions of the Catholics in Russia. Is the Church legal? Are there any limitations to the Church, because of Orthodox hostility? Why can't the Pope go to Moscow to visit his followers there? I look very much forward to more videos from you and your friend. And you are very much welcome here in Copenhagen as guests.

[@patrickmartin8783]

Jakob Munck Copenhagen The Roman Catholics left the church, due to this random idea of the Papacy which was brought up

[@jakob-munck]

@@patrickmartin8783 My questions are not directed to the non-christian "old believers" but to the two Catholics running this channel. So please mind your own business.

[@jakob-munck]

Not right. The Ortodoks participated in the first 7 Councils as a part of the Universal Church. After that they did not want to be a part of the Church anymore, and therefore they did not take part in the 8. Ecumenical Council (Constantinopel, 869). Therefore it is correct to say, that the Ortodox left the Universal Church year 869. In 1054 the Orthodox patriarch in Byzans was also excommunicated, but this excommunication was lifted in 1965 by a joint declaration between the Pope and the Orthodox patriarch in Istanbul. Unfortunately the seperatist russian Church is withholding the excommunication and therefore Russians are still not allowed to go to communion in the Catholic Church. This is one of the main reasons for the problems in Ukraine and the split between Russia and the Western world.

[@trubangTrang]

@@patrickmartin8783 no, Eastern schismatics left the One, True Church. The Papacy is completely biblical and patristic kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHy5Z4OOiLR3nac

[@benjraver1273]

I am a french from catholics familly who back to the truth of Orthodox Christianity and myself an old believers, 1054, the pope of Rome broke with the other four apostolic patriarchies (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), manipulating the Creed of the original Church, considering himself infallible.

[@trubangTrang]

Lol, really? Actually Greek schismatics are the ones in schism with the Melkite patriarch. “In 1724, Cyril VI Tanas was elected new Patriarch of Antioch. As Cyril was considered to be pro-Western, the Patriarch Jeremias III of Constantinople feared that his authority would be compromised. Therefore, Jeremias declared Cyril's election to be invalid, excommunicated him, and ordained the Greek hierodeacon Sylvester of Antioch as a priest and bishop so as to take Jeremias' place.”

[@benjraver1273]

The Orthodox Church has kept the Nicene-Constantinopean Creed intact, testifying that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, according to the word of the Lord: "When will the Comforter come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of God. truth, which comes from the Father, he will bear witness of me. »- John 15 26

[@JoseRX95]

St. Thomas Aquinas refuted this 800 years ago.

[@benjraver1273]

@@JoseRX95 Saint John of Damas refute Thomas Aquinas even before he was born

[@justinreid2422]

But Jesus said whoever knows me knows the Father and but whoever doesn't know me doesn't know the Father

[@justinreid2422]

Sorry meant whomever

[@trubangTrang]

@@benjraver1273 lol, Palamist kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYPVq6JraqxmbJY

[@fyodor_ivanovich]

So to sum it up, you left The Church. Apostasy.

[@trubangTrang]

Nope, he found the True Church. Yours is just a schismatic and heretical collection of sects

[@pravoslavn]

It would have been nice (and the courteous thing to do) if you had introduced yourself at the outset of the video. Almost every other KZbin presenter makes that courteous gesture.

[@benjraver1273]

CANON 28 of Chalcedon Council "- Vow for the primacy of the siege of Constantinople: Following in all the decrees of the holy fathers and recognizing the cannon recently read of the hundred and fifty bishops loved of God, gathered in the imperial city of Constantinople, the new Rome, under Theodosius the great, with pious memory, we approve and take the same decision concerning the precedence of the Most Holy Church of Constantinople, the new Rome, the fathers have rightly granted the siege of ancient Rome precedence. because this city was the imperial

[@benjraver1273]

873, the last Orthodox (martyr by filloquist papist frank) Pope John VIII caused Saint Methodius, an apostle of the Slavs, to be freed, imprisoned by the Germanic clergy for his liturgy [without filioque] and his reminders of Orthodoxy, the Pope even consecrated Method Bishop of Great Moravia. In a letter, which Pope John VIII sent to Patriarch Photios of Constantinople at the time of the Council of Constantinople in 879, he puts in the same bag the filioquist barbarians and Judas!

[@benjraver1273]

The primacy of honor of the Church of Rome was due only to the presence of the Emperor in the city, not to a petrified pseudo-succession. The holy emperor Constantine moved Rome to Byzantium in the year 330, the Church recognizes Constantinople as a new Rome in 451, the old Rome falls in 476, the bishop of Rome becomes heterodox in 1014 - what legitimacy remains he to the Pope?

[@BuckDanny2314]

Pourtant, les signes de la primauté du Pape sur toute l'Eglise sont nombreux. Pour n'en citer qu'un seul : lors du "Brigandage d’Éphèse", les légats du Pape condamnèrent l'attitude des prélats orientaux qui avaient osé convoquer un concile œcuménique "sans l'accord du Siège apostolique [romain], ce qui ne s'est jamais fait et qu'il n'est pas licite de faire" (cité par Yves Chiron dans son "Histoire des conciles".

[@benjraver1273]

@@BuckDanny2314 Honorius, pape “infaillible” tombé dans l'hérésie (monothélisme). Le pape saint Léon II, dans une lettre à l'empereur Constantin IV déclara: « Nous anathématisons même Honorius, qui n'a pas purifié cette Église apostolique avec la Doctrine de la Tradition apostolique, mais par une trahison profane avait cherché à subvertir la foi immaculée. » Dans la Patrologia Latina, volume 105, fol. 52, Liber Diurnus, extrait de la profession de foi exigée lors de la consécration d'un nouvel évêque de la vieille Rome, utilisé à partir de la fin du VIIe siècle jusqu'à un certain temps au XIe siècle: « Aussi les auteurs des nouveaux dogmes hérétiques: Sergius, Pyrrhus, Paul et Pierre de Constantinople, avec Honorius, qui ont incité à leurs assertions dépravées. »

[@benjraver1273]

Papes pré-schismatiques: même les papes doivent se soumettre à l'autorité des canons "Même l'autorité de ce siège ne peut rien accorder ni modifier contre les statuts des pères, car parmi nous l'antiquité fleurit avec une racine inébranlable, à laquelle les statues des pères exigent le respect." --- Pape St. Zosimus (+418) aux évêques de Gaule

[@benjraver1273]

"Les lois de chaque Synode approuvées par le consentement de l'Église universelle, aucun Siège ne devrait exécuter plus pleinement que celui-ci." --- Le pape Saint-Gélase (+496) aux évêques de Dardanie

[@benjraver1273]

"Laissez les lois nous gouverner, non nous les lois." --- Pape St Celestine (+432) aux évêques d'Illyricum "Ces choses sont très mauvaises, ce qui est montré contraire au très saint Canon." - Pape Saint Léon le Grand (+461)

[@Roman-Pregolin]

you should become coptic, church are like pokemon, gotta catch em all

[@tzarinavictoria3531]

Catholic as in Roman Catholic or novus ordo sect under the apostate Marxist Frankie , of which doesn’t have apostolic succession??

[@pravoslavn]

I encourage you to listen to this recording. The amount of "UuuuHhhh's" and "AaaaHhhh's" is VERY distracting. You can do better than that. Just organize your thoughts and know where you are going with the presentation, and it will be much more effective for your viewers. Please.

[@Sweety-ut8zw]

They need to know the message of Islam. I wish someone can give them the Quran. They seem like real Christians who are real monotheists and God fearing. May Allah guide them