Episode 118: Battle Ground Reactions! With Mike!

[@LightningRaven42]

At 38:15. The whole book series has been about using power the smart way, not just power for the sake of power. Ethniu was very powerful, but she was just a dumb brute in the end of the day. While the Black Council has been eroding the White Council, Nemesis has been doing extensive damage for millennia without any directly conflict. I'm not saying that the BAT won't be even bigger, but it not necessarily needs to be against even more powerful enemies, in terms of combat power. The Dresden Files always called back to this. Given the "apocalypse is a frame of mind" line we've seen two times now, I think that the whole point of the thing will be to shatter humanity's sanity (I have some ideas on how this will happen, I think Jim already gave us all the info in book 1, but on a bigger scale).

[@Jmaeta]

The biggest problem for the DM in D&D is how to keep bad guys interesting when the players level up. At one point enemies can't get stronger. Instead a DM has to make his bad guys smarter. So, since Jim essentially uses his DM experience in his books, I think that the big bad after Ethniu will be smarter rather than just stronger.

[@RecklessFables]

I think conjuritis was also a rite of passage in that Harry has gone through puberty magically, now.

[@TheBlackstaff]

I think he caught Conjuritis from Maggie, It's basically a kid disease and he never had it as a kid so he had no immunity. Basically I think Jim finally made a decision on some of the powers she is gonna inherit.

[@gnomesaiyan1680]

When Murphy does come back (prob. in the BAT) you just Know Jim's gonna pull a Conan the Barbarian. She'll block a blow meant for Harry, and she'll be there in her shiny valkyrie armor and say "Do you want to live forever?"

[@mkohlhorst]

There has been a change of plans as far as the next book. Instead of Mirror Mirror the next book is called 12 Months and it deals with Harry putting his life back together and dealing with PTSD. Butcher talked about how at times when the story fades to black it was because Harry couldn't open up about what had actually happened. He said that Harry's dealing with some significant trauma. It's not the only thing that's happening in the book, but Butcher felt that he needed to get Harry's life in order so this book became the next one.

[@RecklessFables]

The short story in Cold Case explains both Ramirez's issues and the origin of Molly's army.

[@lisawillis8227]

Yes

[@andreamiller3578]

I saw an interview in which Jim said he added more Ebenezer stuff to fill out Peace Talks. Apparently some publishing houses can't print books that big but I suspect they made him split it for other reasons.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

Makes me think that Eb has bipolar disorder and was on meth during Peace Talks.

[@andreamiller3578]

I actually like Cinder Spires quite a bit and look forward to the next one. I just really want more Dresden too. Heh

[@RecklessFables]

Jim spent the last 6 years bearing the costs of health problems, divorce, remarriage, and house building. He is very motivated to crank out books at his previous pace.

[@danbuckig4564]

I'm betting he wants the series over with so he can write other stuff

[@boundbythecurve]

If Chandler is nowhere, what are the odds that he doesn't even experience time passing? What if, when Harry gets him out of Nowhere, he's experience no time passed? One moment he was fighting Dracul. The next, he's a few books down the road.

[@lisawillis8227]

I suspect Chandler of being Black Council.

[@andrewmilburn7656]

And how are Harry and Lara going to consumate when Harry currently has the protection from Murphy?

[@darthwyvvern]

She'll make him so horny he'll sleep with a thrall and then have sex with him.

[@darthwyvvern]

That's pretty much how Thomas was able to

[@sodobandit]

I actually think Thomas will come out of Demon Reach completely healed, by that, I mean no more hunger demon, he will be human, thus, allowing him to truly be with Justine, if they can save her. Also, that might be a way for Thomas to become the third Knight of the Cross.

[@locowolfie]

Can I submit a question for the Jim episode here? If yeah: The Einherjar are referenced as Revenants in PT/BG. Does this mean Odin and the Valkyries are Necromancers? Seeing as Revenants are a type of undead/reanimated corpses.

[@alexquin4001]

Necromancers manipulate the spirit not the soul

[@locowolfie]

@@alexquin4001 Necromancers resurrect dead bodies, as well as deal with the manipulation and binding of spirits/souls(these are usually treated as the same). Read the wiki if you want a more thorough explanation. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy

[@dariussmith8406]

Some perspective here..... Necromancers are humans (generally) that use a corrupted form of magic to control/manipulate the dead. Odin is a god (small g), so his area of influence is, in part, dealing with the dead under his control. It’s a matter of degree. Parking attendants can write tickets. Police officers can also write parking tickets, but have much greater authority and responsibility. If, as mentioned by Mab, they were once mortals, they obtained or were given greater power to fulfill a greater purpose. Necromancers are merely humans, so have a lesser magnitude of power, because there is no greater purpose (or Purpose) to it. If you remember in the book about necromancers (Kemmler’s desciples) where they were doing the spell to become gods (again, small g), they never considered what would be required of them when they did get the power. They only considered that they were going to GET power, thinking they could maintain their free will and self determination. Nothing works like that in the Harryverse so far. Humans have much more freedom and can do some bad stuff because of it, but that is limited by their ability to affect the universe. Angels are extremely powerful but have no free will. Hope that helps.

[@darthwyvvern]

No. WOJ is that he uses Soul Fire

[@locowolfie]

@@darthwyvvern firstly this is a year old comment, secondly the woj came as a direct result of this question. So yeah…..

[@SeaGoat67]

Did no one get the Big Trouble in Little China reference? He used a lightning spell using Egg Shen's name.

[@RobbyH94]

Hey guys! At around the 47 - 48 minute mark when you guys were talking about why the publisher split the books up. I watched an interview with Jim (it may have been the one with him and Pat Rothfuss) and Jim said that if it was one book, the publisher would have charged $50+. So Jim decided to split it up. He wanted to release BG in August but that would also overload the publishers. I also heard that the scenes with Ebenezer got moved around and expanded upon.

[@boundbythecurve]

Murph is going to be married to Kincaid in Mirror Mirror. The Hawaii trip.

[@robertchadwell7146]

Thomas vampire baby doesn't gell with the story of Thomas's younger sister in Blood Rites who was perfectly normal under she was almost 18. Her demon was dormant and that's why they kill the first time unless they are in love.

[@pauldareason]

petty as it is im a bit disappointed kincaid didnt show up in this story

[@joshuaperrine2019]

Isn't he Ivy's bodyguard, though?

[@AuroraXA]

@@joshuaperrine2019 Check out the microfiction called "Goodbye" on Jim's website for the answer to this.

[@illumstern8831]

Is "a pizza of fairies" the new name for a group of fairies? 30:00

[@andrewmilburn7656]

Mab is grooming Lara to be her replacement if she dies. Hence her order to kill Molly so the mantle passes to Lara.

[@codyseal8197]

I'd like you to ask jim if harry repaying the debt hades will be calling in for heel turn will have anything to do with Karin Murphy being brought back in some form or another and if he won't answer that ask him please if thor will recognize the name of the jotun harry and murph battled please and thank you I love the show keep feeding my love for these novels please!

[@depp0000000000]

Wonder ifburiel knew bsince he showed harry that scene

[@robertchadwell7146]

In mirror mirror alternate Dresden (cowl) and alternate Molly (kumori) are going to be evil having tormented alternate Murphy but she was helped by virtuous alternate Marcone.

[@mrryan4295]

I think Mab set up Murphy's death to set up the future marriage and that's why Harry will eventually turn completely against her. Rudolph's reaction after shooting her made it seem like he was possessed or at least influenced.

[@mattcannon6148]

How bout the Queen maab?!? For me it's a maab revelation book.

[@mattcannon6148]

Dark murphy marrying marcone is too much like superman red sun

[@boundbythecurve]

Technically "You will see Mavra in Mirror Mirror" is not a lie. It's just not a true answer to your question. We might still get to see her again in Mirror Mirror. He just didn't want to spoil that she was in this one. And I get that. I loved getting surprised by her appearance.

[@russell7563]

I thought I was a real fan but now I am questioning this what is mirror mirror?

[@gettingkilt]

Read the Word of Jim wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-future-df-works/

[@michaelferguson8762]

Cat Sith, how can Justine and Cat Sith both be infected at the same time?

[@joshuaperrine2019]

Where was it stated that only one person can be infected at any given point? How do we know that Cat Sith is still infected? Why couldn't Butcher have written the Justine twist better?

[@alexquin4001]

It wouldn't be an infection if only one person could have it.

[@dlogan7190]

True love is a two way street, does it protect Thomas from other white court? shouldn't that mess with his hunger? there are some questions here questions that really need some better than basic answers. after all sure you can break the rules of your universe but you need to have a damn good explanation for the why they don't apply.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

This book was filled with setup that had no payoff. Too many "surprises" poorly foreshadowed(as in the surprise was telegraphed in neon lights on a billboard). And literally NO mention of Bonnie. The ending was clunky and had unnecessary twists that didn't add to the story; they just made other aspects irrelevant. Eb acting like a normal human being gave me whiplash after his constant foaming of the mouth madman bs in Peace Talks. Nothing came of Thomas's assassination attempt. Marcone as a character is farless interesting now. His neck snapping was the biggest and best surprise in this book(even though I love the character), butthen iswas immediately ruined for literally no good reason. It seemed like Butcher realized that no one is on Harry's side out ofthe two(seeing as how Butcher never gave us a reason to dislike Marcone). Marcone has done nothing but good guy shit this entire series, so it really just makes Harry look like a petty asshole. And Harry immediately realizing that Maggie wasn't brutally murdered made that vision/psychic attack thing pointless. It should have given him the strength to overpower the Titan's will and then afterward Molly could have let him in on it. Like "you didn't realize Mouse wasn't there?" Oh, shit! I just realized that Mouse not being in the illusion makes absolutely no sense! Is Molly omnipotent level planner or just did a bad job? Either way sucks. Last point, I HATE the "tune in next week" moments. When will we/Harry fine out what being an iNsiDeR is all about? Next year. When will Harry have to marry his brother's sister? Next year.

[@Sombriage]

Thank you! Totally agree with your assessment. After Peace Talks I didn't want to think about giving that book a score since it was a Part 1 of 2 - that being said I found it to be rather decent when it came to setting things up. Battle Ground completely fails to tie things together in a satisfying way. The disconnect between each book is just so jarring it makes me think that Jim Butcher wrote the first book and then made a bunch of changes for Battle Ground before releasing that - in which case doing so failed to address any connecting points between the two books. After thinking about it a lot I would give Peace Talks maybe a 6/10 and Battle Ground a 5/10. Peace Talks might've been a 7 but it gets dragged down by being an obvious set up book for Battle Ground which drags the score down because of unresolved issues. Battle Ground is just messy. Jim Butcher does the action sequences well but in the end the book is just Action Scene --> Exposition / Info Dump --> Action Scene --> Repeat as needed while doing a lot of set up but zero resolution from Peace Talks. It's like Jim Butcher was so desperate to go back to his bread and butter Book Series that he just... kinda forgot what made that series so enjoyable. You have a character who gets a pile of trouble heaped on him at the start and at the end he eventually figures everything out and fixes said trouble - that didn't happen between the two books which makes me feel like it's a 2/3 book sort of deal which is just bad. Mad Titan had zero set up or foreshadowing only the Formor with Listen and Korb. Peace Talks had Outsiders while Battle Ground barely had anything with them beyond Justine who had also zero set up and who was part of a number of story bits where if Nemesis was truly possessing her - things would've changed a lot more (Bombshells Short Story is one instance of many I'm sure). Thomas' rescue had zero ramifications from the Svartlavs or anyone else from the Accords except perhaps you could say that Harry is no longer a guest at their Embassy but I didn't feel any connection at all from that... So many threats are mentioned like Mab dying, Reality blowing up from Bob and in the end you have like 2 prominent deaths in which case both deaths are not final since they will just come back way later on. I was expecting a Wheel of Time or Game of Thrones sort of deal where you'd have major power shake ups due to a number of characters / entities dying but nope. Just cannon fodder, the obvious death and a side character death. Both Peace Talks and Battle Ground are not going to age well imo.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

I thought this book was a little better than Peace Talks, but not by much. These two books together feel like a couple of unfinished books stitched together and padded with bits of notes for other books(the outsiders, Dracula's dad, etc). Justine being infected was slapped on a billboard to me when Thomas slurs her name to Dresden. Why didn't anyone try to interrogate the failed assassin?

[@Sombriage]

@@joshuaperrine2019 I would only give Peace Talks a higher score because it felt more like a Dresden Files book what with having the multiple problems being thrust at Harry to eventually solve. It also did a good job in concluding all of these things despite being a set up for Battle Ground. I agree that it feels like we are missing a book or two because of all the set up being crammed into the books + unresolved plots / missing information. Thomas being taken by Harry / Lara had zero ramifications. Justine had zero set up and one would think Nemesis in Bombshells would've not chosen to warn the Svartlavs of the bomb + multiple other times where having a "possessed character" wouldn't have made sense. To me it felts like Jim Butcher finished Battle Ground first and then went on to tidy up / finish Peace Talks while forgetting to edit Battle Ground afterwards. "Star Born" wasn't at all explained - just more set up. "Conjuritus" only occurs once in Battle Ground if I remember correctly - not really resolved so clearly just a slap stick "get out of jail free" option for Harry with no resolution. Harry's relationship with his grandfather is completely overlooked in Battle Ground because "war and stuff" even though Harry promised Murph he'd talk it out in Peace Talks. There are just too many issues with the books as a whole and I would definitely say they are the weaker books in the series and won't age well imo.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

@@Sombriage to me, Peace Talks felt like I was watching a standard episode of TNG. These two books just feel like someone else wrote them.

[@Sombriage]

@@joshuaperrine2019 I think I figured out the whole "Star Born" / "Stars and Stones" thing - or at least I have a theory which kinda explains the 4 emphasized story arcs that have been going on throughout the series. Makes me wonder if Butcher had an actual plan from the start or if he just noticed a pattern recently and has taken advantage of it. edit: I agree that both books feel different in that I think Jim Butcher taking a large break from the series + going off to write other series may have impacted both books accordingly.

[@robertchadwell7146]

All Harry has to do is work magic to make everyone including him forget Murphy. Then she can come back and will likely try to restart their relationship.

[@mattcannon6148]

I'm wanting the next novel to be called, " the hunting and elimination of Dracula."

[@newfieocean]

This Jacob guy isn't funny or correct. Just annoying.