Episode 124: Loving fellow Christians is biblical. "Local church membership" is not.

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@AlexanderosD 8 ай бұрын

Thank you for voicing this hushed, taboo in the Church. How many church divisions and denominational splits have created a greater unity amongst all the followers of Christ in all the world, over all of history? I gave my allegiance to Christ, not a church organization. I joined His family when I was adopted as His child, not a local country club. Your church's logo and name, your denomination, your membership, your church's statement of faith, will not exist in His Kingdom when all is said and done. "...that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you sent me..." Honor the King's wish, let go of your allegiances and memberships, join us, join Him alone.

@Subremedy 8 ай бұрын

Its not always such a bad thing. Membership allows a church to identify an individual who is willing to serve and often that includes email addresses or phone#s to keep in contact with them. You should be able to have membership without financial commitment.

@whateverwithalex9083 7 ай бұрын

You should be able to serve and be in community without signing a document.

@trevino37 2 ай бұрын

@31:49 Christians should obey and submit to G-d and what scripture says because what the elders of the church true of Christ is to guide us into living a righteous life according to scripture. The authority of the elder is the scripture. When we submit to an elder, we are submitting to the correcting of what scripture says, When we obey an elder, we are obey in doing good works for the body of Christ based on what scripture says. Everything started and ends with the scripture. There is no authority an elder has that exist beyond scripture.

@GregonYT 2 ай бұрын

Starting to research this topic thoroughly, so I appreciate you working on this and presenting this info/perspective. You mentioned that a member of the body is only to submit to elders only if their command/exhortation is according to the word of God, but what makes that different from just submitting to any member of the body of Christ who shares something biblical? Since, then we’d still have to submit to that too. It seems I don’t understand in your view of church government and submission what makes the elders different or are there any decisions that they would make that someone should submit to that isn’t necessarily explicitly in the Bible?

@thegospellibertypodcast9481 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! Yes, Christians are to submit to God's Word/Scripture if they read it directly, hear it from a lay person, or hear it from a pastor. Pastors do have authority in the sphere of a church worship service: so if a pastor says that layman "Bill" should read the Bible text during corporate worship, layman "Joe" shouldn't stand up and object and demand chapter and verse for that. Orderly corporate worship is something God commands (1 Cor 14:40), and the elders in the church have rightful authority to govern matters pertaining to orderly corporate worship. That is their rightful sphere of authority. But oftentimes pastors step beyond this sphere and encroach upon individual Christians' liberty of conscience.

@GregonYT 2 ай бұрын

@@thegospellibertypodcast9481 Got it, thank you for the response it’s very helpful! I saw recently that a pastor was using that same verse about doing things decently and in order to prove his position about church membership interviews since there are so many churches and beliefs out there that it’s wise to have a process of membership to understand who they are affirming as brothers in Christ, shepherding, disciplining. Would you say that verse just doesn’t apply to church discipline/membership?

@thegospellibertypodcast9481 2 ай бұрын

@GregonYT My pleasure! It depends on what is meant by "church membership interview." What you probably mean here/what the pastor was doing was doing an interview to admit someone to join a particular man made local church organization. You won't find that anywhere in the Bible. But a "Universal Church membership interview" can certainly be wise, just to talk to someone and understand his/her profession of faith and whether or not the person has been baptized. This helps us to know if we should treat someone as a Christian/member of Christ's Church. This desire that many pastors have to build exclusive communities of Christians that are disconnected from others just isn't biblical, in my view (as I explain in the video). 🙂 @@GregonYT

@thegospellibertypodcast9481 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the response! 1) All Christians have already "made clear their commitment to one another" at their profession of faith and baptism. Anyone who has professed faith, been baptized, and is continually taking the Supper is someone we as Christians have committed to as a member of Christ's one true church ("There is one body..." Eph 4:4, etc ) 2) Man has indeed created the independent/autonomous "church" organization environment you see in modern-day America. Jesus is building his Church, amen! But you won't see anything in Scripture that encourages an organization-centered "local churchianity" like you see in America. 3) If they aren't treating Christians differently who aren't members of that particular organization, that's great, and consistent with Scripture. But then, I ask, what is the purpose of having this extra-biblical "membership" in a particular organization? It is inconsistent. @GregonYT

@GregonYT 2 ай бұрын

@@thegospellibertypodcast9481 1. I can understand that perspective and it makes sense. 2. I agree the modern church in America has gotten corporatized too much but I think having organized churches is helpful for describing what local body you’re a part of. Order and organization is not a bad thing but I do agree if they are all about themselves only and don’t see themselves as brothers and sisters with all other believers next door or around the world then yeah that’s an issue. 3. Getting to a little of what was said in #2 it’s helpful to organize and do things orderly, having a name, bylaws, membership process is simply a practical outflow of the scripturally defined church identifying those who are in Christ and bringing clarity, so church functions can more easily happen such as pastors shepherding the flock, who elects leadership, church discipline, etc.

@alexeikokoulin7933 3 ай бұрын

Signing an extra biblical is a man made tradition(Pharisee alike). Also, in God's kingdom, let your yes be yes, signing a paper is similar to taking an oath. Matthew 5:33-37 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil

@Daedal71 8 ай бұрын

I cannot have fellowship with Catholics for example. Or Mormons, or Jehovah's Witnesses. This is normal separation that would also necessarily give me a desire to win people to the true gospel. Titus and Timothy certainly were instructed to set up local churches.

@thegospellibertypodcast9481 8 ай бұрын

The true church of God includes only those who cling to the actual gospel of the Bible (Gal 1:6-10). Titus and Timothy were given instruction in how to order the churches that already existed in each individual town (Titus 1:5).

@Daedal71 8 ай бұрын

@@thegospellibertypodcast9481 The Church of Jesus Christ is two things at once on this earth. Paul many times addressed people from the whole church, referring to Christians he knew, regardless of where they worshipped. The local assembly has specific order laid out. For a local assembly to be in error over the Lord's supper is not within biblical teaching, but to say we aren't members of a local congregation because we must identify with the whole Church ignores scripture as well.

@basketballperson1350 8 ай бұрын

upper room?

@keithwilson9172 7 ай бұрын

You need to do more research on this. We are “members” of the body. An elder can’t exercise their duty of correction shown in Mathew, without entering in to a two way agreement with the pastor. Also a pastor has to know which people there are responsible for, the Bible says the pastors is the shears over a flock and will give account for how they taught that flock. It is not right that you are a part of a flock and never tell the pastor that they are to be responsible for over you.

@thegospellibertypodcast9481 7 ай бұрын

Thanks for engaging! Did you watch the whole video? Your comments are addressed there 😀. I have been researching this in detail for over a decade, and have a degree from a Reformed Seminary. But I'm always open to learning more. All Christians are members of the universal church (what the Apostles' Creed calls the "holy catholic church") by virtue of their union with Christ through the new birth. The sacrament of baptism is how Christians profess their faith and are shown to be entering into the visible church. There is nothing in Scripture about "entering into a two way agreement" with only some pastors in God's Church and not others; pastors are to shepherd the flock of God (Christians) that are "among them" (1 Pet 5:2). Check out starting at the 37:00 time mark in the video. Pastors, like all Christians, can certainly correct (with Scripture) any Christian. The concept of only viewing oneself as being able to do that with those in your same man-made organization is a very recent invention. Pastors are "responsible for" all of the Christians that they interact with (the Christians that are "among them"). No Christian needs to tell a pastor that he is responsible for him, because God has already told pastors that they are responsible to love and shepherd the Christians that they personally relate with. I'd be blessed if you gave the whole video a watch/listen. Thanks for engaging brother. God bless you! 👍

@hunterjacksonmedia 5 ай бұрын

@@thegospellibertypodcast9481 I'd go even further and ask is being a pastor a position as in head of a church or just a function in the body.