Episode 148: Should I Go to that Wedding?

Episode 148: Should I Go to that Wedding?
Join Fr. Gregory Pine and Fr. Bonaventure Chapman as they provide practical wisdom and insight as to how Catholics ought to navigate attending non-Catholic weddings.
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[@MargaretUIUC]

My house was never cleaner than when I was writing my dissertation.

[@william5691]

I'm 24, slowly making my way back into the Catholic faith that I was baptised into as a child. Everyone else in my immediate family is either areligious or atheistic, also largely supportive of progressive politics that goes against church teachings. I have two older siblings who are both having weddings in the near future, I'm fairly sure they're both going the civil union route and not getting married either in the catholic church sacramentally or physically (in a church building). I'm invited to both, unsure if I will be asked to serve in any capacity higher than just a guest, I'm unsure the stance I'm supposed to take towards them in either scenario. Conversations with both of them regarding anything they disagree with ideologically etc always turn volatile and unproductive, because of this and the fact I'm an overly agreeable and pacifistic person means my courage levels for confrontation of any variety with them are pretty low. Would appreciate some perspective or advice. By the way, I loved the part in this episode about action theory. It really illuminated the relationship between intention and action for me. I've noticed recently that I'm pretty sharp at rationalising my behaviour after the fact to ensure I can come away still considering myself morally decent most of the time, even if at the point of initial action morality wasn't the primary driving force. The idea of the body being the most representative picture of the soul and also the body's actions being the most representative embodiment of the soul's intention is apt and thought provoking.

[@frumaatholoid]

Oh, this describes my situation to a T, only I am 10 years older. I was in my late 20s when I reverted. Best decision I've made.

[@jenelms905]

Great reflections. Its tough. I am much older and your situation sounds similar to mine. Seems to me culture and media have absurdly significant awful influences on people, e.g. moral discussions are bad, late night comedy good? But age helps, learning and appreciating our differences and choose to love them, knowing it is Almighty God's will so it pleases him. Relying on that knowledge takes it out of the angst in front of me to relax. Pray for them. You are a very good person. God bless you.

[@NaruIchiLuffy]

Not that I don't get what a difficult, heart wrenching situation this must be. But to attend would be sinful. Possibly, mortally sinful. There are 9 ways we can be complicit in one another's sins. Some of them that would likely apply in this case: by consent, by praise/flattery, by partaking, by silence. This goes directly against the 6th precept of the Church. And it would also be a sin against charity as by your presence you'd be confirming them in mortal sin. Might be because of sin of human respect (Matthew 10:34-end). If you have trouble communicating the why, I'd write them each a letter communicating to them Church teaching on the Sacrament of Matrimony and why you cannot attend. And that you love them and want what is best for them. Who knows if they have kids, which tends to make people more conservative, they might end up converting because of your witness. God bless. Fortitude has probably always been hard to develop. But more so in our comfortable, effeminacy promoting times. If you fail, get back up again with a firm purpose of amendment of life. We don't become saints over night.

[@therese_paula]

Action theory. Learned something new today. The way you discussed that theory, Fr. Bonaventure, totally made sense. I am inclined to know more about that. Looking forward to hearing more theories that can help us navigate this life. Thank you, Fr. Bonaventure and Fr. Gregory! Btw, simply love all the updating that you do at the start of each episode (not to mention Fr. Chapman's funny anecdotes!), do not get rid of that pls. Keeping you in my prayers! 🙏🙏🙏 Pax

[@domenicolopez1048]

Thanks, I used this advice to discern whether I should attend my graduation ceremony. I ended up attending but wore a cross to show with my body I don't support my university's advocacy of the current culture.

[@josephzammit8483]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKC7eGiNqJlsnqM

[@veronicamacgreevy6532]

Good morning and thank you for another thought provoking Episode. In my experience here in Ireland the fact that marriage is a Sacrament is somewhat lost. It has to be yet another major dilemma for our clergy. One thing that strikes me is if you don't practice you faith why do you want to get married in the church? I am glad most couples do get married in the church. For me attending a church wedding is another opportunity to receive the Holy Eucharist but I have heard of marriage services which don't include mass. The jury is out on this. Recently a younger practicing Catholic and I discussed an up and coming wedding which but are christened but no longer practice their faith and perhaps anti faith. There are so many factors which I classify as the 'politics' within of two separate families and then their coming together for pre and post wedding events much less the wedding day!!! It is like walking a tightrope. I have forwarded this video to help with the decision. One solution is avoid the service but go to the reception!!! I have attended at least two weddings outside the RC church without giving it a lot of thought other than to be supportive to my friends but not placing any religious value on the service just practical in terms of laws of the land. Your discussion has helped look at other life decisions in a broader way. Thank you. Keep up the good work In Jesus Name

[@jw1321]

This conversation has been helpful for me too. How should we look at Christ’s action of dining with sinners? At the time (and now) it was obviously seen by some as scandalous and maybe even interpreted as condoning sinful behavior. Jesus had their eternal salvation in mind- yet his actions could be interpreted differently. What do you guys think?

[@lgb5661]

Excellent episode ! Do wish you had mentioned a particular modern problem - making babies before the wedding! I’ve got an upcoming wedding - one scheduled simply because of an impending birth. Non practicing couple with two sets of Christian parents who are not happy with the behavior of their adult children. So it seems the relationship is headed towards a civil ceremony simply to give the child a legal family. The question is - as a practicing Catholic, godparent, and relative, who is desperately trying to support the pregnancy/birth of a “surprise” child - should I attend???? I’m leaning toward yes, but you’ve given me quite a bit to discern. Thank you!

[@cathmhaoil]

1. Sitting on a chair in a place where a wedding is occurring is NOT an evil act. 2. Other intentions can NOT be discerned from action (man drawing water from well is intending to draw water from a well, that's all remember!). 3. Relationships are always a greater good to preserve/guard than to destroy/damage, we should always act out of love (ie preservation of relationship), rather than out of judgement (which God, by the way, has already done by sending Jesus to be crucified for us).

[@msgoody2shoes959]

God help free His good and faithful servants.

[@aRebornLife]

I enjoyed the dissertation conversation because my degree is in writing and I totally get it😆

[@abyz1467]

Between salubrious and solipsistic, you had me busting out the dictionary a couple of times lol

[@fragwagon]

Try going to a parish run by them 😆 (love the O.P.s)

[@patriciararick3245]

Thank you.

[@Brillemeister]

My spiritual director gave me the OK to attend the non-Catholic wedding of my baptized Catholic cousin. I think attending such weddings can be subject to prudential judgment despite their invalidity. Some such marriages can be convalidated later, unlike homosexual or adulterous unions, which I would consider to be in a different category as far as whether I as a Catholic can ever consider attending.

[@mmeyerdc]

I wrote a dissertation. I hear you.

[@carolynkimberly4021]

When I was an NO Catholic, I thought nothing about going to my niece's pagan wedding where they passed out polished rocks. As a TLM Catholic now, I'm deeply ashamed.

[@asdfasdf3989]

Why do you list them as if they are different sects?

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

Salubrious? Wow Fr. Bonaventure! That's a good one. LOL!

[@florencen4884]

Ah Father Bonaventure, you're the first other person I know who loves washing dishes. High five!

[@nilanikrishnarajah3359]

What about attending a wedding of another religion..such we Muslim or Hindu, can we do that or?

[@mazikode]

Can I attend a Hindu wedding of my friends son. I guess the answer is no. How will I tell her without offending her😥

[@cathmhaoil]

I've only just listened to this, and I am annoyed! They have leapt from the concrete and specific to the speculative and non-specific. That is from action which is visible, to intention which is invisible and not related to the concrete action that the body is doing. So, attending a place where a wedding is taking place is just that, nothing more or less. The consequences of doing so cannot be determined before-hand because we are not God who sees all things. God who is love is persons in relationship, this is the greatest good. So, too our relationships with one another should be preserved as a great good. This is the principle that should be the determining factor in what choice we make.

[@cathmhaoil]

1. Sitting on a chair in a place where a wedding is occurring is NOT an evil act. 2. Other intentions can NOT be discerned from action (man drawing water from well is intending to draw water from a well, that's all remember!). 3. Relationships between siblings for example is always a greater good to preserve/guard than to destroy/damage, we should always act out of love (ie preservation of relationship), rather than out of judgement (which God, by the way, has already done by sending Jesus to be crucified for us).

[@b.b.stratman8410]

Sorry. The podcast was very entertaining and interesting but your spiritual guidance was as clear as mud. On the one hand, on the other hand, maybe yes, maybe no. As your brother in Christ, dear young fathers, all I can say is grow some spines. Take a stand. One way or another. You are supposed to be shepards, and your flock is wandering. It is fine to be clever, too, but your job is not to be clever. The bishops have abandoned us, so faithful priests need to lead and guide us.

[@Maria_J_]

They clearly stated that one cannot attend a same-sex “marriage” or one in the context of a satanic mockery. They then clearly stated that the rest is up to prudential judgement and fleshed out what that might look like in a number of examples. It’s not “spineless” to acknowledge legitimate circumstances where the virtue of prudence ought to be exercised; if you feel you need more guidance, Fr. Pine has written an entire book on prudence.

[@carolynkimberly4021]

You two are so orthodox in our Faith. You definitely don't go along with the Bergoglio church.How do you stay so calm and faithful?

[@carolynkimberly4021]

Let's go Brandon