Episode 155 - Emil Cioran - Absurdity and Nothingness

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[@taddybear4244]

Nihilistic philosophers have always appealed to me. Cioran has been the first to actually resonate and contextualise the experience of life. Cioran is the reason I find comfort in negative emotions. I don't wallow in the traumas I've experienced, I recognise those emotions as part of the human experience. His philosophy is the epitome of the phrase "it's ok to not be ok".

[@ahuman5150]

Most people can't fathom nihilism. I don't know what the big deal about it is 🤣

[@taddybear4244]

@nematoad do you not think so? He seems to embrace the void of fundamental meaning to life.

[@josephrees7100]

@nematoad I myself am confident that they don't exist. How can they?

[@oscarpaez123]

Could you recommend other Nihilistic authors/thinkers/philosophers that you like?

[@olympiahendrix4392]

"it's ok to not be ok"is a great summary. I would like to add: and life is much better with a bowl of hot soup. LOL Sorry, I am a great believer in nurturing the depressed with hot soups. Cioran met his life partner looking for a meal. I wonder if she made soup?

[@Pyasa.shaitan]

I really endure myself.

[@danielmiu-zu8io]

I read 'On the heights of despair" by Cioran in a difficult moment of my life, and weirdly found it to be the most comforting for me at the time. I have since looked deeper into his works and although some of its stuff it's on the high end of the negative spectrum, I feel like there is also a lot of positivity at it's core. I appreciate it may not be for everyone, however, I feel like this could bring you positivity if digested in the right way. Cioran was a very studious person, he devoured thousands of books, and I resume all his works to be a huge insight into the ancient western and eastern philosophy, as well as the French and German philosophers from the 16th - 19th century. Cioran was awarded with the Rivarol prize in 1950 and refused it, even though the prize consisted a substantial amount of money, considering at the time he was struggling financially and lived a very modest life. His take on the Rivarol prize was that you cannot slander the universe and accept a prize for it.

[@tranquil87]

It is not a type of optimism (embracing the true absurdity of the world) but it is a kind of heroism, which Cioran acknowledged. It is paradoxically what gave life meaning for him - in the sense of keeping him from committing suicide.

[@Mycofuncorriza]

I would say it is. You don't go doing anything without hope. He faces the dark with hope of seeing it in a better light; with hope of purpose in his life. Surely if you are not so optimistic you won't go seeking in the dark.

[@duendenally]

Thank god you guys dedicated a full episode about Emil Cioran

[@ecovolved]

Great take on a fascinating thinker. I too have always felt strangely uplifted by Cioran.

[@siddharthbajpai5907]

It's ironic how Cioran talks about how people get uncomfortable with topics of mortality and death and now is himself classified as a pessimist because he talked about topics like mortality and death.

[@olympiahendrix4392]

great point!

[@bebe8842]

Not many people really understand Cioran's work. Opinions, after opinions... Only those who live(d) like him can truly understand what his mind conceived. He was simply a genius! A monster! A lonely, yet if u would meet him, a smiling, clean human being!

[@reald3d23]

Everyone is lonely, most are just too distracted to know it.

[@mr.goldfarmer4883]

Read somewhere on the web two decades ago that seems befitting here: "Life is the trickster that fools us all. It forces us To-Be without consent and coerces us to praise and revere it's self-righteous magnificence. It uses us to propagate so it can continue it's moment in the sun - we are but mere tools for its existence. Striving to live, is to suffer and to each day we bow before our instincts of survival that Life imbues within us. Death is the misunderstood savior that free's us all from Life's grip, the giver of mercy"

[@Mark-dk4fe]

Death is an illusion to the soul.

[@emilanonas]

I tried to search this passage on the web but nothing came up. Whose words are these?

[@CozyButcher]

Cozy only learn of this man from Death Stranding. Holy cow. Cozy no know this man so badass. Thank you.

[@akinlajaakinwande8177]

Good one Steve, I’m currently reading his book “The trouble with being born”. He his indeed an absurd, dark yet interesting philosopher.

[@robertjsmith]

"How could you be truly free,if you have a purpose,or even a reason for being Your here being this for no reason what so ever And no reason is needed for anything what so ever"

[@xenakis-1589]

Great video. It really is ironic how comforting his absolutely nefarious writings can be. But then again, they couldn't be otherwise in a world like this.

[@anna.augustinova]

This was really interesting. Emil seems like a cool dude.

[@zlek4875]

Been waiting for a long time for you to talk about this. Thanks!

[@gazrater1820]

Amazing stuff thank you.

[@galanzj]

This was amazing!

[@frankmarroquin7488]

I just found your KZbin channel like a couple of days ago & all I have to say is GOLD!!!

[@marcomata6692]

I didn't know much about this guys Cioran but he does has his way to touch darkness. He also reminded me of that chapter of Kierkegaard on Anxiety . Excelente podcast, no me canso de escucharlo 👌🏽

[@dominick8656]

This was fantastic, thank you!

[@sadgirlporvida3227]

Thank you

[@jedediahallen9288]

I listen to a lot podcasts and this one is by far my favorite. Keep up the great work man, I love this series.

[@olympiahendrix4392]

Great video. Thank you.

[@dlloydy5356]

Fascinating. To me his work is in step with the concept of Momento Mori…. This is going to be a great series. I’m a bit late to join you however I backtracked to the start from your most recent post. Thanks Stephen

[@karankaushikk]

" Subjected to the mortifying ordeal of being born"

[@marian-gabriel9518]

Thank you!

[@timoliver3226]

Mr. West your my favorite philosopher podcast channel

[@manastripathi1157]

This was amazing..waiting for an elaborate explanation of kafkaesque by franz kafka!

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

Life's lack of meaning is actually very freeing.

[@figurefiguras4104]

Been listening since 2018 dude

[@Mikerosoftt]

Do anything that internally justifies your wretched existence, Peterson said this and I think it’s the only way to go on without being in an eternal pit of self pity and pessimism.

[@reimannx33]

Isn't that what Manson said? Looks like Peterson swiped it. If only peterson could do that crazy dance like manson.

[@tomisaacson2762]

​@@reimannx33Well you can't expect too much novelty from 2nd rate popularizers of philosophers. When it comes to Peterson's content I always say: what's new isn't good and what's good isn't new.

[@TheDeathopper]

I think climate change is a good real life example of your meteor argument. The effects of climate change are currently unfolding all around the world, and the impacts they it will have on our globalized civilization over the course of the 21st century will be absolutely devastating. Most people are vaguely aware of the impending doom climate change will bring to all of us, but live in willful ignorance to avoid confronting the painful reality of the situation. On the other hand, those who are intellectually brave enough to properly grasp what's at stake inevitably fall into a state if dispair and anguish as they realize the futility of it all. In that sense, Cioran's philosophy of despair at the hands of our inevitable individual death is also applicable to the inevitable collapse of our modern globalized civilization.

[@chemquests]

I don’t get the part where existentialists claim the devastation & futility should make us feel pain and anxiety. I think it’s ironic that humans crave meaning in a meaningless universe, which is just funny.

[@robertjsmith]

How could you be truly free,if you had a purpose or even a reason for being,your here being this for no reason what soever and no reason is needed for anything what so ever

[@MagnumInnominandum]

Don't let universal absurdity and the ongoing negation of your awareness of it go to waste! Live up to your potential for suffering and fidget spinning! Afflict the comfortable with the heroism of being afflicted! Justify your existence by just defying your existence! Make the embrace of the meaningless the meaning of being! 🙄😏😮‍💨

[@simonkabwe5926]

What is the title of the book you were using for the quotations???

[@zawwadhamim836]

It was my First episode

[@slartibartfast2977]

I googled this guy to see what he looks like. He kind of looks like he inspired Eraserhead.

[@jojijohn7121]

Is that God or bad?

[@Geambasu169]

That's right 😅

[@ndo104no]

I believe the point of Taoism and zen is about accepting that at times there are things you won't be able to accept and that's OK. Its Human nature. If you can't accept that then that is ok too. Like the taoist proverb about the farmer whose horse runs off. There is a meditation, sit and let your mind just do what it does, just listen to the normal chatter of your mind. Now try to be distracted. The point is that the mind does what it wants which means you won't always be fully aware of yourself let alone your emotions. So stop being conflicted over it. But the conflicting is also of the psyche so now we have a paradox. That's the point! Let me leave you with the words of Khalil Gibran. And a woman spoke, saying, Tell us of Pain. And he said: Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy; And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields. And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquility: For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen, And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears.

[@masicbemester]

wait there's a KZbin channel for the podcast? Of course there is I'm just surprised

[@ivan5844]

Cioran was just a honest philosopher.

[@AnuKumari-yz9bu]

Missed your voice

[@hansfrankfurter2903]

Isn't this idea of embracing the meaninglessness of life , its crushing absurdity and its sheer terror as an affirmation of life just another escape? I mean when these feelings are boiling within you it feels really good to find a means of expression for them. The feelings themselves are extremely hard to control and more spontaneous, but the response definitely is a coping mechanism. Which then turns into a rationalization for why everyone else is escaping and you've found the harsh truth and made it into a romantic-tragic poetic affirmation of life ? Don't get me wrong, I harbor plenty of those feelings, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that glamorizing the absurd is somehow life affirming, there's nothing about it that's life affirming that's the whole fucking point. The absurd and the pain without meaning are a siege on the mind, the mind seeks order, pattern and to create symmetry and structure, and imbue things with a telos even if its proximate. To think there is something beautiful about this absurdity and suffering is to delude oneself. But hey most of us have our delusions anyways...so whatever I've come to believe that the meaning of life is to self-express, self-validate, self-explore and self-create within some ethical bounds. The meaning of life is simply the deepest depths of human nature brought into congruence and harmony with the universe. What else can it be?

[@ahuman5150]

No one has a clue.

[@mariaradulovic3203]

Thank you for pronouncing his name correctly. Finally!

[@jackbeck913]

a reasonable answer to finding beauty in the absurdity that is this world. Do you think some peoples existenalism, and maybe some other "problems", are caused by others ignoring this absuridty? what are the postives and negatives of running away from the "burning building", or ignoring the absuridty?

[@akulinamackenzie4492]

💕👍 🙋‍♀️ 🇫🇷

[@Oners82]

At 4:58, an insect IS an animal, lol!

[@minduliperera6575]

The fact that life has no meaning is a reason to live, moreover, it’s the only one. Wow.

[@chemquests]

Existentialists overestimate the amount of suffering. I never got why meaninglessness and absurdity should make me depressed. It’s funny that a species evolved to crave meaning should discover it’s absence. I’m relieved I get to create my meaning instead of having it dictated to me

[@Masterdebator881]

You underestimate the amount of suffering in this existence.

[@Masterdebator881]

@@chemquests Exactly. You would need to actually look outside of your personal worldview in order to understand.

[@chemquests]

@@Masterdebator881 how much is enough to make it depressing? Some philosophers portray it as enough to drive one insane. We’ve clearly been enduring it for eons, so it doesn’t make most people feel that bad. Turns out we’re not as bothered by other people’s suffering as our own.

[@Masterdebator881]

@@chemquests What does depression have to do with reality and suffering?

[@chemquests]

@@Masterdebator881 existentialists stress how they’re depressed that all the human suffering isn’t for some grand purpose, such as a creator’s plan for all to be set right after death. If all suffering is meaningless that somehow makes it not worth enduring. I agree that there’s no point but I don’t think we should endure it to satisfy a deity anyway.

[@robertjsmith]

i feel shit there for i am

[@owretchedman]

I loathe THE MEANING CRISIS hysterics. The meaning crisis is a crisis for professors who must fill an hour with gibberish.

[@bernardliu8526]

How come M. Cioran did not disdain truth and honesty ?

[@hanskung3278]

"Love absurdity" and nothingness? I think that's called a "oxymoron."

[@robertjsmith]

Arthur Schopenhauer and Emil Cioran were both Buddhists

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

Flappy inflatable arm flailing tube man!

[@vermin5367]

Dang that takes me waaay back.

[@kadekeqw23]

I think this is Joe Rogan's secret channel

[@hanskung3278]

How does he know religion "is a false hope."?

[@tomisaacson2762]

How do you not?

[@hanskung3278]

@@tomisaacson2762 Hmmm.... Answering a question with a question is evasive.

[@ntang99]

From what I heard here, I don't see any difference from Camus' enjoying rolling the boulder.

[@somamaddox9369]

Cioran wouldn't enjoy it. xD

[@ntang99]

@@somamaddox9369 Cioran hated Camus, maybe because even Camus wrote about human suffering, but didn't suffer much himself as Cioran did...it is not fair🙂

[@hanskung3278]

Pascal already talked about all this, this is only a rehash.

[@Geambasu169]

Pascal just play it with mind and pure logic without substance. Cioran sufer from it with all his existence. Who do you trust?

[@hanskung3278]

@@Geambasu169 I have no idea what your saying

[@raziel1994ful]

Well you should read Cioran then.@@hanskung3278

[@Homunculas]

Thirst!

[@Jimmy-jm1ol]

This sounds like an existential rip-off of Nietzsche's uberman, and amor fati.

[@charlestaylor8624]

You got to wash dishes and pay the rent. Thinking on the absurdity of things wilk make you a depressed and lonely like Cioran. Sorry dude. I am here for fun and don't wish to wander the street at three AM to dawn, even if it's Paris.

[@F--B]

Sounds to me like Cioran just doesn't get tradition. His positing of absurdity and meaninglessness as ultimate truth is arbitrary, based on his own temperamental biases. He isn't a realist, hes a postmodernist - he isn't responding to naked existence, he is describing a distinctly modern view of existence.

[@SisypheanRoller]

What is it about tradition that he doesn't get?

[@craigwillms61]

Ughhh, this dude is depressing. Jovial - I think not. We live despite the tragedy; we carry on knowing and end is coming. There is always the clean up after a party or a wedding ceremony. Are we supposed to deny the fun and frivolity of the moment because at some point we have to clean up the mess. Maybe that's what he's getting at, it's not clear to me - but why such a downer?