Episode 156 - Emil Cioran - Failure and Suicide

[@robertpietraru1939]

16:54 "when he left Romania to go to school in Bucharest" Bucharest is the capital of Romania

[@florinbora755]

Yeah he messed that one up :))

[@mlokosss]

@@florinbora755 possibly thought of Budapest

[@Sahil_Shukla98]

This podcast was especially beautiful

[@robinbeckford]

Thank you for bringing Cioran to my attention. I like his ideas, and will read more of, and about, him.

[@abstract3213]

This is the only video that actually got me out of depressive mood. Thanks.

[@x2mars]

My wife died two years ago, I see suicide the exact same way. I can always do it tomorrow or sometime in the future if needed

[@blazejbialek7416]

Please don't bro. This is just one philosopher with his own silly ideas. What about Karol Wojtyła (Personalism), who said that the world is always worse off after the death of every single individual person, the world would always be poorer if any of us did not exist. Stay strong brother.

[@operationblackout1095]

suicide is probably the dumbest thing a human can do

[@Prikar1234]

please consider seeking help. the world is a brighter and better place because each one of us exists and that includes you. Things may be very hard but you don't have to suffer alone. please talk to someone about it. take care

[@WilliamsWrestlin]

Don't listen to these cucks. Suicide is a fundamental human right. We didn't choose to be born but we, as a conscious being, have the choice to die

[@ksan1648]

@@blazejbialek7416 "poorer," i.e., one less wage slave to be bled dry.

[@yt8co]

it's hilarious that all Cioran wanted was to be a failure and he couldn't even succeed at that

[@LilBafta]

And yet he was driven to it which brought him peace. Funny old world

[@florinbora755]

Read Nostalgia by Mircea Cărtărescu, another Romanian writer....

[@Aphorismenoi]

@@florinbora755His book "Solanoid" is a Masterpiece

[@TennesseeJed]

I thought Camus and Diogenes were the right path for my dark brightness, but I have a new idol now! Thanks from a new subscriber!

[@LilBafta]

I used to suffer and know nothing but the pain. Now I suffer aware of the wise words of those who can enlighten my darkness.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

Funny how entertaining and uplifting a discourse on failure and suicide is.

[@me_high97]

Sunt fericit cand vad cat de cunoscut este Cioran. 🇷🇴

[@Nasir_3.]

Suicide is an interesting topic and definitely worth thinking about, and yet, most of the people think of it as something terrifying and forbidden, great episode Mr. West, I’m definitely gonna take a deep look into his works.

[@micahlelugas5139]

I don't know why exactly but this has been my favorite of your series. Thank you.

[@aaronsmyth7943]

Thanks for taking the time to do these.

[@transcend1078]

Cioran + Nietzsche + Schopenhauer = ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Thank you so much for the Cioran podast! This KZbin channel is so great. I love this channel!

[@ivanaznar6495]

Hey Stephen, Hi! I'm an usual listener of the podcast via spotify, but i wanted to leave a comment on this episode, so i came to youtube to leave some words here, i hope this reaches to you. Your work on this podcast had an impact on me and my way to view the world, thanks to philosophy. I believe, i will look up and read some of Emil's work as i´ve done previously with Kierkegaard, Shopenhauer and Plato; all of this thanks to you. This podcast gives people the chance to reach ideas that make an impact on their life, that´s an amazing acomplishment you can be proud of.

[@skiddersactual3639]

I've been looking to disappear into my dreams but now I just want to disappear into the surreal absurdity of reality thank you

[@Barushia]

I have a new favourite philosopher now. Thank you Stephen. He is a kind of a little bit more wild Albert Camus.

[@scottobyrne]

Thanks for doing Cioran! Favorite of all time

[@saityavuz76]

Thank you for introducing me to him.

[@davidalbares5950]

Just wanted to say thank your for Part 1 and Part 2, you made my morning better. Nice quality of audio as well

[@fabiocardoso7194]

Thank you Stephen, these are a treasure!

[@natureswhisper1397]

Thanks, now I have to go deeper into Cioran's works! I've just bought ''A Short History Of Decay'' so I can't wait to read it.

[@scottobyrne]

Brutal book for me, at first. Now I love it and all his works. I had to leave philosophy altogether after it, but I always come back to his works.

[@natureswhisper1397]

@@scottobyrne what do you mean you have to leave philosophy? Good for you if it helps, it affected my mood so much that I just threw the book away haha!

[@scottobyrne]

@@natureswhisper1397 I should of said for a while, like a month lol. It orginally depressed me so I just quit reading philosophy and other stuff. How real his books are was like a slap in the face! But I came back better than ever afterwards. His book Tears and Saints is really good.

[@natureswhisper1397]

@@scottobyrne oh I see. Not sure it's the best way to see life though. We can't really know for sure why he thought what he was writting but things can be seen in a more positive light. Anyway, I'm glad you came back to philosophy!

[@yaongingyfmm1571]

Hey Stephen I wrote you some emails, you must not've got'em I even signed my name in them, right down at the bottom Anyway, the last one was about this great guy, Emil Cioran And even if his work is not that well known I am still his fan Thanks again man, for being an invaluable source of knowledge and wisdom...

[@operationblackout1095]

valuable*

[@boreinouchiha8323]

​@@operationblackout1095uhm, no

[@elijaguy]

So refreshing! Thanks again!

[@richardruth9048]

Jesus christ these are so good.

[@Roman_93]

0:16 ...clocked out for the day when his feet hurt, his back hurt... 17:45 He once said, "The big success of my life is that I’ve managed to live without having a job." How could he clock out not having a job? And why did his feet and back hurt?

[@benjueabba9480]

Beautiful episode, thanks Mr.west

[@jaye5872]

This was absolutely brilliant! I learned so much, thanks!

[@wastehazey6468]

Absolutely fantastic video. I have been a fan of Emil for quite some time, but I've never owned any of his works, because they (and most books I'm interested in) aren't sold in the few bookshops here in the Faroes, so we have to either order them from Denmark or somewhere else. Money has always been an issue for me and my family, but tonight I finally managed to order On the Heights of Despair and I can't help but feel a sense of pride.

[@elshook09]

I knew someone who was bipolar and decided to force quit at 24 because the side effect of his meds were too much for him. Apparently this was his favorite philosopher. I don't really understand why but Cioran is quickly becoming my favorite too

[@craigwillms61]

I've failed enough. I know who I am and my limitations. I've been low, unhappy even depressed etc etc, but suicide is a cop out. We should not put it up on a pedestal. Failure is necessary, you learn by failure - it breeds success. Get up off the ground, pick up your bike and start riding again, you stop being a loser right then and there.

[@TheBellCurve_]

U got it figured out. I’m sure the simulation will be kind to u

[@somethingyousaid5059]

Existence itself is the ultimate liability. Without it there can be no other liability.

[@matt8151]

Hard to believe Cioran would object that my ambition is to fail (hikikomori’s the dream)

[@tudogeo7061]

16:57 So... He left Romania to go to school in Bucharest?

[@dinaraurazova3094]

hahaha I also noticed that. Bucharest is the capital of Romania

[@tudogeo7061]

@@dinaraurazova3094 Yup. Nicely done otherwise.

[@ricardatorner3576]

I realized that one too :) but then, it's an episode about failure, so seems like a good time to make a mistake ;) Love these podcast, I listened to them all the time during the first lockdown

[@tudogeo7061]

@@ricardatorner3576 Yup. I may have been too quick to point that out; I myself am subscribed.

[@dinaraurazova3094]

@@ricardatorner3576 It's an excellent video and great channel overall! It was an ironic mistake, which made the whole message even more relatable!

[@samm1883]

Thank you good sir

[@Woody-cc2hs]

Thank you for this podcast

[@seanpatrickrichards5593]

What a great podcast :D

[@davidc.2878]

I feel like he turns Cioran into a self-help book: embrace your failures to grow as a person. There’s actually a self help book that says this; it’s called Growrh Mindset. But I think this attempt to redeem him as a transactionalist is completely wrong headed. Cioran shouldn’t inspire you to DO anything-the point is to drop the burden of fixing the self, not improve the way you carry the load. If you haven’t read Cioran, you should go to the source; and when you feel a dark impulse to laugh while reading him, indulge it fully.

[@Larcey]

Amazing! Thank you!

[@scottharrison812]

Ah… the enigmatic EM Cioran - for whom suicide never came for it always came too late! After such exquisite agony- to be undone (or somehow redeemed) in the simple life-affirming desire for a mortal woman - if his correspondence with Friedgard Thoma is to be believed!

[@hyacinth1320]

Love learning about someone I hadn't heard before! I was thinking a great companion to him for a future episode could be Judith Halberstam's The Queer Art of Failure. I would also love a Gloria Anzaldua series!! She is criminally underrated.

[@dksdmusic]

Cioran is the president of the club “You’re failing them by idolising them”

[@lucapopica8414]

16:55 "So when he left Romania to go to school in Bucharest" (Bucharest being in Romania)

[@Asilentlearner43]

Americans aren't known to be good at geography.

[@ash91_]

Thank you.

[@foolyanr.1]

This podcast gives me positive vibes. Specially because I’m someone who failed several times. But every failure was a lesson. About suicide I think allways the same: the possibility of being reincarnated with the same problems to solve. We call it destine... maybe you live several life’s with the same problem to solve. Imagine it’s your seventh life with the same problem to solve. We call it hell. Hell and heaven is on earth...

[@hasanalharaz7454]

17:10 isn’t this a contradiction of his earlier point though? He said failures are more interesting because they actually get stuff done in their lives but in this example these failures are the worst kind of failures. Not only do they not do anything in life and as a result they lead very boring lives. And not only that they’re not honest (or at least not all of them) seeing as they constantly talk about about what they will do but never do it and they probably have a view of themselves that’s very different from reality. Also isn’t cioran himself living as a “failure” inherently dishonest seeing as he isn’t actually a failure and doesn’t have to live through the cons of being one? Seems like a larper that glorfies every aspect of failure while ignoring why people look down on it in the first place. Especially the examples I said earlier. Most failures do have boring lives and some have interesting ones. It depends on which one you talk to

[@AnnaPrzebudzona]

I also noticed that but, as Stephen emphasized at the beginning, Cioran wasn't trying to create any consistent narrative or philosophy. His writing was an act of therapeutic self expression. However, the concept of failure is actually really interesting. Apart from very clear situations in which a person engages in some endeavour or competition, it's hard to define failure. I mean, most often we judge ourselves or others as failures simply because we fail to reach a goal or a standard that we might never have truly wanted to reach. There may never be a definitive answer to a question, am I a failure? From what perspective? According to what measure? I wonder whether it's possible that deep in my heart I despised the success that I thought I desired and by failing I succeeded at avoiding the fate that I wanted to avoid? I don't know. Maybe it's a convenient rationalization. The thing is that I can't imagine myself conventionally successful but for most of my adult life I was convinced that I failed by not achieving success which I know was not defined by me but merely appropriated as an object of desire. I didn't fail because I'm not good enough at holding a job and homemaking; I'm fairly intelligent, educated, skillful... there seems to be no objective reason for my failure so maybe... maybe I succeeded, if not at creating a life of my dreams (simply because I never managed to create a compelling vision of such a life, perhaps because I didn't see the point), then at least at avoiding being trapped in a life designed or prescribed by someone else?

[@christinemartin63]

Agreed that failure is a great teacher and makes us face reality and discover truths about ourselves. But ... many people repeat the exact same failures with no insight or subsequent change. What is that, then? Laziness? Stupidity? Lack of will? Arrogance? Yes to all ... and it will lead to self-loathing soon enough, if not self-destruction and misery for innocent third parties.

[@thayermanns4286]

So good here i am again 31 hours later at 349 am.

[@sandeshdhungana4924]

Best of the best

[@noahbrown4388]

🖤 Cioran!

[@furkancaglar6189]

I remember that some of these podcasts has transcript right? how can i find them if they are exist. thanks a lot.

[@basicdose.9872]

I love this shit.

[@mongolmcphee7791]

Subscribed

[@alfinkemal9133]

yo yo what up boi

[@Nouveau0]

Where are you from Alfin?

[@krinkle909]

My countryman is such a genius! I agree wholeheartedly... it must be something we inherited from Dracula

[@bensden50]

From a human perspective reality and life is mostly a a failure. If life was created maybe from the creators perspective and reality and laws. Then the thing it created, existence may be highly successful among there circles. Or existence may be just a average piece of homework from a young creator. A being as the word we used who simply used the tools in there reality and some gizmos pressed a button and bang there's a reality there's some rules great. I can't think deep enough. Life ain't smashing it ain't shit. Depends on your situation.

[@enriquemartinez5647]

You are Good, mr. Philosopher. About our lucid dream-like.. can you please elaborate.. I send you a Hugh. For what you do is of very importance

[@davidmcclain7481]

Sounds like a grumpy Camus 😂

[@olivercroft5263]

Camus was more of an anxiety guy

[@dheerajkrkh]

More like sober Camus

[@markkeogh2190]

Declaring that the universe is absurd and meaningless is also ascribing meaning to the universe. Basing a philosophy on the idea that it’s meaningless one needs to accept that basic principal. The universe isn’t meaningless. But I have no idea if it means anything at all. It’s above my pay grade. How can we know that ?

[@Tore_Lund]

An universe with meaning always implies a purpose to it, which means a creator in the religious sense. If a meaningless universe was intentional, our suffering is intentional as well. I think meaninglessness as a result of unconscious randomness sounds slightly better.

[@markkeogh2190]

@@Tore_Lund but one could also ask where does the unconscious randomness come from. And keep going back. Humans create meaning. We can’t avoid it. Even saying it’s meaningless is us giving it a meaning. It’s thought based. We just can’t get out of that pattern. Which is fine but we might also acknowledge we just haven’t got a fucking clue 😀

[@Tore_Lund]

@@markkeogh2190 I agree on that, humans can not avoid seeking meaning, regardless of how often we remind ourselves that there is none. We also still take the next breath, even if it is not a permanent solution. I think that the urge to find meaning in religion, or in our own lives is an evolutionary survival instinct to get some kind of illusion of a predictable future, but as an instinct only, it can not be defended scientifically as anything but a feeling, like love and anger. It is not meaning in the objective sense. When you ask where randomness comes from, you're asking a hard scientific question? Randomness in thoughts ( original ideas) have not been determined. The jury is still out about if we have free will at all (randomness) or we are simply state-machines only acting on external impulses. If we do, that randomness can very well be Quantum Mechanical and random in nature. Are you saying that such property of the Universe is intentional? Is that an argument for a created universe with some purpose, (not necessarily including a purpose to humanity and planet Earth)? If randomness is intentional is it true randomness if it is intented to create life? Is it a creation argument you are making?

[@christinemartin63]

Whoa, there ... Bucharest IS in Romania. He may have gone to France, do you mean??

[@GustavoRey-oo6zi]

People with PTSD would have a different opinion regarding suicide. Like my brother did.

[@personpersonpeoplepeople]

8:48

[@MV-vv7sg]

Little bit disappointed you reduced the enormity of his ability to write to ‘one liner quotability’ good delivery and talk overall however.

[@valsan1323]

16:00

[@FemboyEconomics1]

I would love to see you talk about Objectivism!

[@polarisjustdothework2258]

Define failure…;

[@polarisjustdothework2258]

Suicide is most definitely only one possible outcome…suicide is the most tragic health outcome 💔

[@bernardliu8526]

I think even your good self prefer your podcast episodes to enjoy a large audience. No ?

[@MagnumInnominandum]

Ironically I think you have ruined Cioran for me. To be fair I have only cruised His work through audio material. I find the glad handing of failure disgusting. I am still interested just given pause. If someone only writes for themselves why would they publish? I suppose He gravitated towards failure while not traveling far from his successes.

[@Geambasu169]

He dont want to publish. Who discover his manuscripts want it. He never live on his succes. Google it.

[@elenaivanova624]

Ыы