Episode 26: Dragon Fire Sinks

[@Protect_all_Goats]

32 year old watching this from rural England. It’s people like you that is inspiring me to go out and buy my first boat. Many years ahead of me and my young family to hopefully enjoy some fine sailing. Fair winds friend.

[@Schoonerman19]

Even if you find it - not worth salvaging. It is a wreck!

[@InaChristensen-v4f]

So, so sorry that this happened. Glad you are safe. Things can be replaced, you cannot!

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks

[@tipirick]

Thanks for the video. Sorry for your loss of the beautiful Dragon Fire. Autohelms are a great tool, especially for the single hander, but autohelms have a dark side: Lateral forces at the top of the rudder post exerted by the sea’s great power against the rudder applied mostly at the bottom bearing eventually overwhelm the top post bearing, always the structurally weaker of the two, because of the moment arm of the force being resisted there. Failure of the top bearing or its structure is then quickly followed by the bottom one failing as it must, like the force that causes a broken wrist. (Imagine trying to dig with a shovel using only one hand.) A helmsman applies force to the steering gear far less abruptly and forcefully than a powerful hydraulic autohelm, made increasingly rapid and powerful when engaged in battle with even slightly heavier than calm sea state. I use my autohelm very sparingly and only in calm sea states (after having ruined one in a heavy sea). Closely scrutinize the top bearing structure while at dock by having an assistant rapidly move the helm to port and starboard while observing the top bearing area for hairline cracks opening and closing. I’ve seen it; A guy trying to sell me an otherwise nice 1985 Catalina 38 had rigged a piston between the cockpit wall and emergency tiller to act as an actuator for many long boring motor returns from Ensenada to San Diego after that annual "downhill" race. He had the piston off when I inspected the boat, but he had left the tell-tale: an after-market fitting he had attached to the side wall (gunwale) opposite the port side of the rudder post and exactly where it would need to be to connect athwartships to the small emergency tiller, he had expropriated for the purpose of a DIY autohelm, a dead giveaway. Ruined the top structure of the rudder post, a circular crack in the heavy fiberglass around the emergency tiller knob opening and closing as the helm was turned back and forth. Refusing to admit his crime or fix it, he also thereby ruined the sale. His exact words were, “I’ll just sell to someone else who won’t notice it.” And he was a medical doctor! If I treated my architectural clients like he treats his patients, I’d have smoldering piles of rubble with my clients under them in the five western states in which I practice my profession.

[@chriscox9437]

There are no words. I was just visiting Washington and New Bern, thinking about retiring there. Wonderful folks, everyone I met was welcoming and encouraging. I wish you the best, maybe we will meet someday.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks. Washington is a great small town.

[@robtr7]

Hi David, I am sorry to hear about your loss. I was the Cape Dory 28 that was next to you on the hard at McCotter's. I have a feeling after spending some time with you that you will get through this setback and have many more (positive) adventures ahead of you.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks

[@jeremiestanley5960]

Your channel just came across my feed with this video. I am sorry to have found your channel under this circumstance but I am glad to see that you are safe. I have subscribed and will look forward to seeing your experience in retrieving and the revival of your boat. This is a type of fear that I have but you are proof that being calm with methodical movements and well prepared can save your life. I hope your able to find her and bring her home. I hope the currents didnt carry her to far or create enough damage that salvage would not be possible. Good luck sir

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@jeremiestanley5960 thanks

[@ChristovTenn]

So sorry.

[@Thfeyhvfdetyhbvcd]

I’ve always wondered if the sea water hose to the engine could be disconnected at the throughhull, and the engine be used in a Hail Mary attempt as an auxiliary bilge pump. Even at full throttle, I don’t imagine that very much water passes through the heat exchanger, but I wonder???

[@AustinWigley]

Saddest sailing vlog I have watched to date. :(

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks, sorry to have had to make it

[@charleswilkie2097]

Hullo from a boatie in New Zealand. What a sad story. Good luck with locating Dragon Fire and raising her.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks and greetings to down under.

[@OsmanParvez]

I am so sorry for your loss! What a terrible experience, but I'm glad you're safe. Would love to hear an analysis of what happened and what things you would have done differently.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks Osman. The upper part of the steering post support is known (I found out after the sinking) to be a weak spot. Had I known this before, I would have rebuilt the support. I totally forgot about the manual steering post that I could have used to steered myself into port. I would have demanded the USCG cutter to have stopped and let me center the rudder post to keep it from flopping back and forth, thus reaming out the hole that the rudder post passed through. I would gotten in the water and wrapped the rudder post with a garbage bag with a towel inside and the put a hose clamp around that to stop the free flow of water into the boat. Of course it is easy to think of these things after the incident.

[@silvastories]

Hey David I’ve following sailors for a long time on KZbin and want to be a sailor one day as well. You give me motivation that it’s never too late I’m 50 and itching to do this. Be seeing and maybe one day out there on the water

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks and follow your dreams.

[@markc3717]

Sad times - very frustrating being there whilst all this is happening - thoughts are with you & yours - take it easy Man. Sometimes, after a great Love, we need to move on. Greave & recover & take lots of time & get lots of hugs ... someone who has lost before too. Fair winds.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks

[@alanduncan4691]

Very sad watching her go down, but glad you're safe David.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@alanduncan4691 thanks

[@jonathanlewis1352]

Sorry for the loss of the boat but it’s time to call it a day. You’re putting yourself in additional danger with your Bayliner searches and the boat has zero value. Rudder posts sinking aren’t unheard of because of poor build quality but the CG should have had operating pumps at the ready. At any rate, you’re alive and healthy and it’s time to move on. Best of luck.

[@CarreraGTSCS]

Terrible to hear but glad that you're safe and dry. I wish you luck with the recovery

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks

[@RestlessGranpa]

Sometimes you are able to find coordinates when taking photos or filming videos with your smartphone.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

That’s true. Something to look in to. Thanks.

[@Mike-tj2oo]

You took a nap while you were being towed with a fucked up rudder post?Nice job.Cant believe you sunk your boat.Crazy!

[@dfansler]

It was not I who sunk my boat, but rather it was the USCG. They would not let me secure the rudder which, with two bad gas powered pumps, led to the sinking. Did not matter if I were napping or not, the damage was still being caused by their towing me with an unsecured rudder.

[@Mike-tj2oo]

@ Sorry sir but you let them not let you secure your rudder on your boat.Drop the tow and fix your problem then reattach when you are ready.Very simple.

[@danweyant4909]

​. Yes, it's everyone else's fault you failed to secure the rudder shaft.

[@chrisseay9635]

This hurts my heart so bad! I hope you find her.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks so much

[@Morrisfactor]

Holy cow, sorry to see you lost the boat - at least you are safe! And the insurance company paid off. As a boat builder for over three decades, I am surprised to find out that a Beneteau 50' only used .5 inch plywood tabbed in with 5200 for the upper bearing support - that is totally insufficient. I can't imagine they are all built that way, surely this was a factory screwup? I was also a commercial diver for 12 years and have raised many sunken boats - I don't think salvaging yours is worth it - better to find another one and start over. Best of luck and be thankful it didn't happen well offshore when you might have had to resort to the life raft for days.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@Morrisfactor thanks for your comments. No, the 1/2” plywood was not a mistake. The same thing has happened to other Beneteau of the same model. I almost wished it happened further off shore. I eventually would have remembered the emergency tiller that sits on top of the rudder post, and would have stabilized it as it came thru the cockpit sole. Then the USCG would not have become involved to sink my boat!

[@Morrisfactor]

@@sailingsoloat7052 Again, I am sorry for the loss of your boat - I have lost one myself so know how you feel. I am still rather astounded that Beneteau would engineer such a weak upper rudder support bracket! I assume more recent Beneteaus have replaced that bearing shelf with something more substantial!

[@casybond]

Sad story and sight to see your sailboat go. Glad you made it! What model sailboat? It's hard to believe a rudder post is fastened with 1/2 inch plywood and caulking.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@casybond thanks. It was a Beneteau Cylandes 50.5

[@charlie6751]

Sorry for your loss my friend understand your feelings a sailboat is not just a vessel its hopes and dreams and a home on the water ,i recently had some bad luck with my live abourd sailboat fishermen had badly damaged my boat while it was at anchor during a Storm wasn't on the boat at the time thankfully but now fixing the extensive damaged they caused theirs is always something with boats,buy yourself another boat preferably a bullet proof one

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks. Sorry to hear about your boat. Good luck on the repairs.

[@svlonestar7645]

Thanks,

[@FranklinGray]

friends don't let friends buy Beneteau.

[@noasailing27feet]

I sail my longkeeled Allegro 27 double ender built like a tank. I was out 6 months onboard this year. I will never buy a Jeanneau ir Jeneteau ir Bawaria. My Long keel , 2 cm thick hull built for bluewater cruising

[@aquious953]

Hate to say it, but its best to buy a new sailboat. It would take many years to bring back a right off.

[@norml.hugh-mann]

unless your spending 100s $k, new boats are crap

[@aquious953]

@norml.hugh-mann "new": a boat to replace the one on the bottom.

[@aquious953]

@norml.hugh-mann it would cost tens of thousands to raise the old boat and about 100K (inc labor hrs)to restore it. His old boat is probably worth around 50K. You also have to keep in mind his age. Using the insurance to buy another used boat is what makes sense here.

[@jodo1971]

Thats rough! Shocking how things can go bad, so quickly. Do you think that if the coast guard had not shown up, that you could have saved her? At least you’re safe, and you were insured. Good luck with Future endeavors and enjoy the bay liner.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Absolutely she would still be floating if the USCG had not taken in tow.

[@burlatsdemontaigne6147]

More Brains in a potato!

[@davidfansler7968]

Why do you feel it is ok to degrade me. Have you ever been in the same situation? Until you have, armchair quarter backing, by people who have never experienced the same disaster really do not know what they are taking about.

[@jamesgraham6122]

I don't know that coast well enough to be certain but I'm guessing that the yacht could have been carried some way by the tide/current during its time sinking.The CG performance sounds pretty lame, missing gasket, non-functioning equipment.. a cutter that wants to drag the yacht along at speeds well beyond its design limits.. All sounds very amateurish. You might have been better off with a local fishing boat and some lifetime sea-going professionals.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@jamesgraham6122 thanks. I would have been better off if they had never showed up. I have kicked myself numerous times for even telling them I was taking on such a small amount of water.

[@sleethmitchell]

the fact that the cutter was towing it faster than a small hull could comfortably move through the water did not improve its chances for a positive outcome. i've lost a couple of boats, even got a helicopter ride out of one. losing a boat is a horrible experience.

[@jamesgraham6122]

@@sleethmitchell Me too.. A night passed in a life-raft watching it burn down to nothing and every few minutes thinking of something important to me (it was my home at that time) lost forever.. yep.. it's tough.

[@sandrocavali9810]

You are the quintessential sailor. Perhaps those Coast guard rookies check their gear now

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks. Doubtful on the USCG. I have heard they get the hand me downs from the other services.

[@travistucker7317]

That's horrible, i can't even imagine. Sounds like you're taking it in stride, though. It seems like the coast guard really let you down a couple times there. What made you decide to go forward with salvaging the boat?

[@sailingsoloat7052]

We purchased the boat in Greece in 2022. I sailed her single handed from there, across the Mediterranean and then across the Atlantic to North Carolina. I have probably spent over 6 months on the boat during that time. She is a strong, very fast boat. I realize that a number of people do not feel it’s worth raising, but I do. After all, it is my boat and my life to spend the way I wish. The damage to the boat is minimal. I feel I can restore the boat at a reasonable cost.

[@travistucker7317]

@sailingsoloat7052 makes sense. We'll be here for the update. 8 knots.. yeah that's fast haha

[@schipp7]

Sorry for your loss. How deep is the water there? Might be worth asking for CG track to help understand drift at the location. Did also have AiS, pings May also reveal location before sinking.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

The water was 60’ according to the USCG ship that was towing me. The USCG gave me the coordinates for the sinking location, and that was like pulling eye teeth. They have not been very cooperative since the sinking. I did have have AIS and have reached out to several firms who store AIS info. No replies so far.

[@PillSharks]

Sorry for the loss of your boat sailor.. classic example of all the gear and no idea regarding the coastguard! The pumps should have been put aboard the vessel on arrival with a crewman who knows these pumps like the back of his hand with enough fuel to get you back to port. That crewman could have also assisted with making her watertight again which I would have through would have been the number one priority rather than putting you under tow for hours… the yacht veering off to port like she did should have been a good indication she’s not happy, they obviously did keep a very good watch on you? Best of luck bringing her back to port mate, massive undertaking but I’m sure it can be done, I just hope she hasn’t smashed herself to death when hitting the bottom?

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@PillSharks thanks. I feel she touched down slowly. When I hah veered off to port, I told the Master Chief I could solve the problem. But he insisted I stay on the radio while I did. I couldn’t, so he said don’t change anything.

[@jimringo2569]

Gave you and Dragon Fire a very sad like.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks so much

[@johnmclachlan1023]

Do you know where all that water was coming in? I've been towed in at above reasonable speeds on a boat that lost its rudder, we streamed a long heavy warp to keep it straight.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

The water was coming in around the rudder post. Being towed above normal speeds would have been ok if the rudder had been locked into a neutral position where it could not flop around.

[@svsalserenity4375]

Glad you are safe , what make and year was your boat ?

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Thanks. 2008 Beneteau Cylandes 50.

[@jackchamberlain5993]

It is just sad David

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@jackchamberlain5993 thanks - I totally agree

[@MrDuckmallard]

Are you really disparaging the very people who came out to save your life? Sounds like it to me.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Please note, 1). I was not endanger of sinking, therefore my life and my boat were not in danger. 2). The towing of my boat, without the USGC allowing me to secure my rudder caused my boat to sink, and thus put my life at risk. 3). Eventually, I would have remembered the emergency tiller and would have made my way to a boatyard for repairs. 4). If a commercial towing company had towed me in, my boat would not have sank. 5). If it sounds like I am blaming the USCG for sinking my boat, that is because I am blaming them. They could not save my boat from the damage they caused by having, not one, but TWO bad pumps on board their cutter.

[@damage_control_sailing]

😔😥

[@JohnVH-diy]

I just found this video and have a question. I’m a novice sailer. What caused water to enter the bilge. What caused it to get worse enough to sink her.

[@nodogrunner]

Basically a design flaw with most sailboats. The rudder and attached quadrant is not in a water tight compartment. When the rudder shaft seal broke, it flooded the boat.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

The upper support for the rudder post self destructed in heavy following seas. This caused me to lose steering. The USCG came and decided to tow me in. They were towing me at a higher speed than the sailboat could go on its own power. The rudder started flopping back and forth thus reaming out the hole the rudder past thru the bottom of the boat. This is where the water entered the boat. Thanks for the question

[@JohnVH-diy]

@ Makes me glad for my transom hung rudder and simple tiller.

[@nodogrunner]

So the USCG sent 3 boats and could not prevent her from sinking. SMH

[@sailingsoloat7052]

No, the USCG sent three boats and then sank my boat!

[@Dec1duousTree]

I think I would feel extremely let down by the Coast Guard. Very disappointing performance.... Sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing your story.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

@@Dec1duousTree Thanks. I am very upset and disappointed. Just found out from my lawyer, that if the USGC pays out on an insured boat, the monies go to the insurance company.

[@Jcozz]

Very sad and frustrating. They should practice with those pumps all the time, keep them tip top and fueled up.

[@travistucker7317]

Mccotters marina?

[@travistucker7317]

Ah, yes, you said Cool place, mccotters.

[@sailingsoloat7052]

Yeah. Mark is a class act!

[@travistucker7317]

@sailingsoloat7052 that's where I picked my boat up. Super cool place

[@Didyoureallythinkaboutit]

Let that money you spent buying the right to salvage be a life lesson and move on. Risk reward is way way off on this proposition unless the KZbin makes you bank. Get another boat and sail on friend. Be safe. (Next time more what if’s and less hope and prayers for seaworthiness, especially in the open ocean in heavy seas.)

[@davejob630]

This is a case of poor design and cheap manufacture.