Episode 50 - Water Pipe Rough In - Uponor Home Run

[@brianb9410]

Nice work and commentary. Your electrical rough in video is also well done.

[@Ciband]

Thank you for the kind words, and thanks for watching.

[@ShakeJunt263]

Most of those short pipe lengths between fittings are against Uponor warrenty. There is a minimum cut distance between fittings. Usually 2 x OD. If those leak they wont be covered by the 25 year warranty

[@Ciband]

You are absolutely correct. I missed that particular point on the specs and only realized it after the fact. Still no leaks and running well, but it is a good point. Thanks for watching.

[@seanm3226]

At some point during construction design, one has to ask “what’s the point?” Should I dedicate so much money, time and living space to a system that may be mostly unnecessary? Getting water into any house should not be that complicated. It is very rare occasion that someone needs this much access to every drop of water in the house. Because we “can” do something doesn’t mean we “should” do something.

[@Ciband]

Every water delivery design has pros and cons. For this one, I really liked the ideal of minimizing fittings in the walls. I also wanted the flexibility to send the correct water to the correct fixture. No need to send filtered water to a toilet or washing machine. From what I read, the home run system would give faster hot water delivery. That was important as well. It absolutely used more pipe than trunk and branch or Uponor Logic, way more than I estimated. Definitely not the design for everyone but it very much works for my wants and goals. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.

[@jakethegreat98765432]

Frost free does not me it can't freeze, it is just harder to freeze. Put ball valves on each line feeding your hose bibs.

[@Reedith]

So you're hot recirc loop is only for the master it won't really affect any other fixture ?

[@Ciband]

Yeah it really won’t other than charge the 3/4” lines that the other manifolds pull from. Some hot water will circulate through those manifolds and lines due to the temperature differences. If the circulation was going forever, eventually all water in all hot pipes would become hot. The runs for hot water not in the circulation loop are pretty short. Hot water delivery to the kitchen is probably the worst case there and it works perfectly fine. Not long to get hot.

[@Reedith]

Did you consider an uponor logic style system?

[@Ciband]

I would have been open to this. Honestly I never saw that design until I had already committed to my home run. With my remote master manifold, I think maybe me is more of a hybrid between homerun and logic (assuming I’m remembering how the logic system works). Thanks for watching.

[@Reedith]

@@Ciband yeah your master suite is basically a logic system I was going to do home run as well but upon doing more research I think moving forward a race track style logic system makes more sense So I just did three race tracks under my house of 1 in one for hot one for cold and one for recirculation So basically there's just a giant circle and I even connected it in on itself so it is a physical flow through circle and then all my fixtures either manifold or tee off into 3/4 or half inch It ended up using barely any pipe and I think from a pressure standpoint it being a circle where pressure can come from either side should be a plus still haven't tested that yet though next step is trying to figure out if anything I'm doing will increase or decrease pressure And because I saved so much pipe I was able to do 1 in and 3/4 in and then stepped down to half inch right at the fixture unless it's a bath or a hose bib that can do 3/4 straight through to the fixture So theoretically within open our logic and a reserve you should have pretty much instant hot water anywhere only the little bit of water in the drop from the racetrack to the fixture needs to drain out

[@Reedith]

@@Ciband only issue I ran into is there aren't any manifolds that are 1 in through with 3/4 outs so I'll probably do inch and a quarter for my racetrack next time cuz there is a three port inch and a quarter through with 3/4 out manafold So I had to basically make my own manifolds with the 1 in through 3/4 out t fitting which was fine I guess the math makes more sense if you're using 3/4 to have an inch and a quarter main line

[@Ciband]

Yeah, if I had to do it again, I would probably think very hard about how to do that type of system. I liked the idea of minimal fittings in the walls but I did use a lot of pipe…lots of pipe.

[@travisferguson1721]

Wouldn't it have been more efficient, more convenient and way cheaper and also far better organize to just use the Viega Manabloc manifold water distribution system!!?

[@Ciband]

They don’t support Uponor and I didn’t want to have another connection method.

[@travisferguson1721]

@@Ciband Whoa! Your response to my statement was very fast! What type of water heater will you be using? A tank-type or tankless?

[@Ciband]

Ha, you caught me at the right time. I am using a Rinnai tankless, indoor propane.

[@travisferguson1721]

In a previous video of yours (the one about the gas line setup) you talked about many gas appliances and devices, such as the stovetop, HVAC, the outdoor gas grill, possibly a future clothes dryer and the water-heater that will go into the house. Just how large will that propane tank be and will it be enough to empower all of those devices and appliances? And is that even cost-effective or efficient?

[@Ciband]

As far as the propane tank size, I will be putting in a 1000 gallon but allow space for a second one later. As far as propane and efficiency, cooking with gas is just better than electric so cooktop and grill make sense there. I will have a propane furnace but only as a “fuel fuel”. Primary heating will be an electric heat pump that will work for the majority of the season. I am using an electric clothes dryer (more cost efficient) but piped gas to it just because. I like options. I am using a propane tankless since any electric tankless will pull a lot of electricity that I’m initially not setup for. I will have provision to supplement that later should I choose to.

[@tazz23rd]

Jesus christ, so many unions. So many leak points

[@Ciband]

Unions? You mean fittings? Those Uponor fittings are unlikely to leak and if they do, it isn’t in the wall. It is a lot of pipe and a little complex but getting hot water quickly to a fixture without having to discharge a larger feeder pipe is nice. Thanks for watching.

[@tazz23rd]

@@Ciband yes, fittings are a potential leak path. The work is neat, and i commend tou for that. I do however think the excess fittings are a liability.

[@Ciband]

Sure, they are a risk. My think is I’d rather have it leak in a mechanical room with a flood sensor than in a wall I can’t see. Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching.

[@donhuffer5167]

Pot filler will never be used while also using another line in the kitchen. Could be off the faucet. So much waste.

[@Ciband]

I have actually used both at once. Rare but it has happened. I would not want to tap off the faucet. That would be another stub up in the slab. I also have all this plumbed where the pot filler can be filtered for drinking and the kitchen sink would not as it is just for cleaning. Flexibility is worth $30 in pipe for a house I will live in until I die.

[@donhuffer5167]

@@Ciband your whole setup is a waste. Way too many connections.

[@Ciband]

To each his own. I like the home run concept. Faster hot water to fixtures, flexibility to isolate an individual line, very few fittings in the walls, and having a central point where I can manage which fixtures get which grade of water (eg hard, soft, filtered). Overkill? Maybe, but I like options.

[@williamdavies1977]

This is a bad design. The "stubs" are too short. Like others have commented, use a manifold if EVERY gosh dang line comes to the same point. Next, you have a dozen or two cold lines, none insulated, running in the same direction. Consider running a larger line and branching off. Finally, the recirc pump termination is wrong. Hire a pro or copy from someone better.

[@Ciband]

Thanks for the feedback. I always enjoy being other’s point of view so I can maybe learn more. I could not get any Uponor compatible manifolds (something like the Vega) without spending a lot of money. Building my own like I did was much more economical (all things being equal). I would have preferred some turn-key manifold. Why would I insulate cold lines in a conditioned space (i.e. inside the spray foam envelope)? Why does direction matter? I did consider a trunk and branch but ultimately decided that the home run pros won out for my needs and wants. If I had to do it over, I might consider the Uponor Logic system for design. Can you explain how the recirculating pump termination is wrong? I followed (to my knowledge) best practices from Rinnai and from “the rinnai guy” on KZbin (great channel, BTW). Thanks for watching.

[@marv8461]

you created a disaster

[@Ciband]

Thank you for the constructive comment.

[@lachcik5084]

wtf is this lmfaoo

[@Ciband]

I figured it was self-evident. It was also explained in the video.