Episode 86.5: THE CHENGDU ADDENDUM

SPUNJ, moses, and YNk just chillin, Talking Counter
Join and discuss the episode on our Discord!
discord.gg/TalkingCounter
00:00 Intro
01:50 The Jame situation
08:46 IEM Chengdu and Virtus Pro. A bit about horses.
12:07 FaZe after the Major into Chengdu
29:00 Subreddit sidebar
30:45 On the topic of Zywoo
39:19 Expectations for Astralis
45:21 Mouz
48:33 Cloud9 in the fray
52:50 Heroic and Liquid to round out the day

[@madsrishoj]

Releasing 5 hours of podcast in 21 hours is something else

[@toysgone]

Make it 13

[@TonyKalashnikov]

Prolly recorded earlier

[@jakethomas1279]

10:00 in reference to what to call VP i just call them perennial Underdogs cus we know they can potentially win any tournament but they aren't a unknown quantity so can't be a dark horse My 2 Cents thanks for the episode

[@DLCdude]

THERES MORE 🥳🥳

[@darquark1239]

skullz deserves a chance at yekindars spots

[@paulrevere1183]

it will be interesting to see how zywoo's mental holds him back going forward, or if he finds his stride. he's clearly trying to find his comfort zone between being a team player and being an individual performer. I think his moments in interviews refusing to dog on s1mple and other top players can provide some insight into his mentality. he's not just trying to be cutthroat or the GOAT, and that will absolutely impact his level of selfishness in-game. will be cool to see how he deals with that, or if he does at all.

[@guppy9lives]

Nice, now waiting for Episode 86.5 2

[@lucasmcnamee3658]

Small correction. B1t and jL had very close stats but one of b1t's deaths was a tk so idk how that is supposed to count

[@MorizonPlays]

That death doesn't count but bit dying to karrigan on map 3 counts for 2

[@iarmycombo5659]

​@@MorizonPlays or straight up for 3 cuz it prevented karrigan ending the major with 0 kd xd

[@noxzy69]

I fucking love this podcast

[@stayhome4626]

That was so good , what Ynk said about Faze's Veto against spirit , if they play Vertigo again right now 10 times , Spirit will win 8 out of 10 easily .

[@Flare97]

Wow, just finished the last episode. Sick.

[@reclaimchris]

Guaranteed to be a banger!

[@BurntSno]

Sick intro

[@ohmyjoash]

The counterstrike hivemind!

[@Fozzii_FPS]

On the VP conversation, I would define them as a Sleeper Team for most events.

[@vladpav]

love the intro \m/

[@J1NXCS]

Damn Chad you had me thinking my phone was ringing and I couldn't figure out where from

[@Zelli0n_]

That intro is the best fucking thing

[@anything3068]

Messi for JkS

[@FilthyJazz]

86.5 W!!

[@iarmycombo5659]

Janko saying yesterday why no1 else team trolling on the map pool except him as g2 fan and then now he he says faze trolled the map pool xD

[@fredericoo]

Ynk is like a Joker atm?

[@elizabethmurigi1131]

3 Peat please

[@jtdropkick5424]

Just a heads up for Spunj, Chengdu is pronounced 'Chung-doo', not 'Cheng-doo'.

[@rare8567]

you can drop mezii but it wont make vita results any better. i think hes good support player.

[@adityapathania1098]

They need a new IGL, a new approac. Apex's time is over.

[@PrissyChey]

@@adityapathania1098 LOL apEX just won IGL of the year 2023. and now they need an IGL as you said ? who do you think will replace apEX then ? :D

[@MyBadCuhz]

wtf 55:44

[@iarmycombo5659]

I have respect for all of you guys cuz i think your opinions make counter strike community seem smart cuz u say smart stuff way too often. I think your opinions on Jame were fair but slightly wrong. I do agree that during the match there was pretty much nothing that couldve or shouldve been done. But i think we do (pretty much) have the technology and we should seriously consider some ways to prevent similar type of situation from happening again (Maybe not all types of crash creating harm situations can be prevented but at least this type of). Let me explain. The fairly accurate AI win% prediction can be utilized. Lets say some1 crashes and they had a 70% chance to win the round, and now their win% dropped to 40% (after assuming the guy who crashed just died). We could have some1 press a button that first sees was the round win% drop big enough, and if it was, then it freezes the round and it is continued. We could also have something like if the team that crashed had over 65% will it only then freeze the game, to prevent people trying to get an advantage by crashing because they already had a good advantage (over 65%) and they can just as easily lose advantage as gain it if they also give the opponents the freeze time. This crash was on a game deciding (important) round which could just be logged manually, all the more reason for the team with an advantage not to purposefully crash to risk giving up an advantage for minimal gain because you already have an advantage. These methods accounts for detecting the most tragic crashes, ie. that matter most and should be rectified. (About the Jame round, Fl0m [NA top 20 faceit] said 9 times out of 10 with awp in that position in that kind of retake with no util to clear the awp they win the round). Now that we have detected the tragic crashes, i want to remind you why we should find a way to restore the situation. The crashes are most likely not trying to get an advantage because AI prediction clearly says its way too dumb and i think its fair to give them the benefit of the doubt for any% the AI could be wrong or that it cant account for. Thus we either have a round that was unfairly affected ny a game crash or that was unfairly affected by a game freeze (using my system). I think the unfairness resulting from the game freeze is way more manageable and can be adjusted in a way that makes it in at least some very detectable situations clearly more fair for everyone than just allowing the round to go on even after the crash. Thus we if we ever would get as unfortunate as this, we would have a chance at rectifying the fairness. Now we have succesfully frozen the game. So we should ask the opposing team and coach will they allow the guy to rejoin the round or do they think this is intentional to get strategy advantage. If they dont allow, we could have some questions ready to try to persuade them in the name of fair game but i guess if they dont allow then round can be continued and nothing (really) happens. But i think they wont have many reasonable arguments for why its strategically unfair towards them, so the game should go on in most cases with the crashed player respawned, maybe its not even necessary to ask what they think. Actually, every individual team could agree before their match if they want this freeze if crashed exception to be enabled, and if both say yes, then yes. This is ofc complicated so the system would need a lot of testing beforehand but most of the technology is already here. It isnt the easiest implementation but its a possible implementation. How do we continue the game now that its frozen? Well, id say, we take the past 10 seconds before the freeze or so and analyze it. (We could also do so before the freeze to see if there really was any point a freeze is reasonable to restart and if not then there is no point to freeze the game at all). So basically key points to analyze are damage done, shots fired, nades thrown. Sound and visual cues could be useful to list down. (in that time frame, i guess the analyzing could ran on some other pc beforehand without knowing if some1 is going to crash, to analyze all possible spots to restart the round from if there are any, and the freeze only happens if there are no keypoints about the round win% in between the last possible point of restarting the round). There is a lot of specifying im doing here but again remember this is only if something so catastrophic happens again. And in that situation the players were mostly just rotating and no damage was done for several seconds except to the crashed guy, there were plenty of situations where the game couldve been frozen, waited for the guy to rejoin and then continued playing as only running was happening, they had no util and t's werent peeking. Overall just think its best to start a few seconds earlier than the freeze cuz then you have some seconds to get ready for surprises again like you would be in a real round. Also i would see it beneficial that the round would play as a demo on each players pov up to that point of unfreezing the round so they can remember what the idea was and get back tuned into the round and the game. Sure the players could get a little cold but i think again its better to see how the round would happen if the players were suddenly cold instead of seeing the round how it would be when one guy in the best position with best health with best gun just dies out of nowhere giving the opponents an insane advantage. There are quite a lot of possible tweaks we can do to make the unfreeze better than ive stated here but im tired of predicting what any reader of this comment would notice as a problem in the unfreeze process as i feel like its really the only problem. Im tired of it and nobody is probably ever reading this comment so there that as well. Only thing im quite certain we dont have is any of the command the game to do any of that but we have the required data so all that should be quite possible for the devs to add. Logistics wise we obviously get the demo instantly no matter what happens in the round, so all the data you could dream of needing exists near instantly outside the game server, where we can do any calculations we want like the AI prediction or possible round restart times.

[@tejmazwei]

G2 wins chengou and wins shanghai babyy

[@shamsiddin6395]

intro music was unnecessary tbh

[@shamsiddin6395]

or lill bit too long