Eric Weinstein explains why you don't need an expensive piano teacher

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[@TimGreig]

So true. Traditional education especially stifles the pace of learning anything quickly.

[@mikeFolco]

Sounds like someone who did not go to school and feels inferior would say.

[@tiomatt]

What Eric said was spot on and something I wished I learned far earlier in life. A few years ago I changed the way I study. I learn things the way a child learns them. I go for basic concepts that I can quickly implement. For languages that includes small useful phrases that I can later build upon. I never study grammar, or word lists. I’m not planning on being a playwright in those languages, I just want to communicate. Just like learning some basic cords, to jam with friends. I don’t need to have ambitions of selling out a concert to play an instrument.

[@dumpsky]

that telepromter tablet where dave rubin reads all the 'uhuhs' and 'ohs' looks interesting.

[@5ilver42]

the music theory I learned from my piano teacher is what allowed me to teach myself how to play several different instruments. I am definitely the best at what I was classically trained on, but I do pretty well on the others. And that is what I would recommend. Learn to play the piano and *learn the theory* from a teacher if possible, as that is one of the more straight forward interfaces to let you transpose from that yourself to other instruments everywhere else.

[@LearnPianoLive]

Well said. I'm told the same is true about languages - that there is a language theory that people who learn a lot of languages get. For me, each one seems like a daunting, life-long project. I think that's how a lot of people see instruments.

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

@@LearnPianoLive Fascinating idea! That there is an underlying, universal "language theory" (like music theory) that can be utilized on the many different "interfaces" that are all the various languages (like all the different instruments).

[@SineEyed]

Interestingly, your thoughts on this are in direct opposition to what Weinstein was saying..

[@dnavas7719]

Eric is the ultimate "think outside the box" thinker

[@LearnPianoLive]

His brother ain't bad either

[@3ertin]

It's more like; What box?

[@harryhenryuk]

He is a master glass bead game player

[@stuartdriedger9989]

the ugly guy noticed he was cool because the internet and then took of his glasses now prototype think his hairdo looks like the brain he wants

[@3ertin]

@Tyler Mod I think Eric's line of thinking is very hard to follow. I like his associations a lot, but I also get lost in them and forget the point he is trying to make. Could you share some of that boxes maybe? I'm interested where some of his ideas came from.

[@southpaws6814]

I am a musician who was sabotaged early on by a piano teacher who's last concern was actually teaching. It was only when I learned that music could be FUN and an expression of language that l made any headway... many can play fast, mathematically and that can sound great but ask them to play their own stuff or jam with others and things can go out the window...

[@LearnPianoLive]

Thanks for sharing! Always remember Hanlon's razor. Glad you found your way!

[@nabilyassin1742]

In my school there are bunch of great technical musicians. Those guys sound like midi and very robotic. None of it is fun or interesting. But then a couple of people seem to actually enjoy the playing and they sound like humans. Sure they can’t play scales at 300 bpm, but they sound way better

[@allenroisen2386]

As someone who's played guitar for years (and knew a little theory), and is committed to learn theory now, i will say it is certainly possible to teach yourself these things, HOWEVER...it is sort of a daunting prospect once you realize how much you have to learn, and the temptation to learn some new topic before truly mastering onces that should come prior. I feel as if Ive been dropped in an ocean of knowledge and have little to no way of navigating it in a straight forward manner with continuous progression. That is what a teacher can offer you.

[@jaymesc4436]

Yeah that sort of duanting realization is one that i've felt too

[@gavrilfortunato]

i felt the same, but found a way forward without a -physical- teacher by reading theory books and practicing a lot. There are some great and structured authors out there!

[@illegallemur4024]

Get a good book that does well in guiding you through everything with step ladders. Teachers are great because they slice through bullshit and catch your mistakes in real time. It takes me a week of playing something slightly wrong to realize lol

[@michaelbloomer451]

I was teaching myself music theory for years, but made more progress in the first semester of my music degree than all those years trying to teach myself You CAN learn a lot on your own, but as you say a teacher facilitates that learning greatly

[@stuartdriedger9989]

sounds like something a hobbyist would say

[@MrChannelnamehere]

Music theory will only take you so far before you are limited on technique. Simple pop song chord progressions are easy to play, but even early advanced level classical repertoire requires serious chops. Establishing solid technique is where the multi-year 'grind' is required, there are no shortcuts.

[@MiguelGebremedhin]

The key is finding the exceptional teachers, who teach their students in ways that like Eric says, to allow for immediate application. These teachers also however, teach with long term goals in mind. It's so easy to cheat your way into something only to find out that you would've been much better off having done the heavy lifting in the beginning.

[@KingMinosxxvi]

In my experience exceptional teachers are not in general allowed to become teachers. This is because what Eric is saying has also come to be applied to training teachers. Teachers colleges want (putting aside the pollitical agendas) to convince people that teaching is incredibly difficult. In doing so they squeeze out those who have an aptitude for teaching and facilitate those who are good at regurgitating the company line and proving that they are doing allot of work. I was told that I was an excellent poetry teacher. I was told that students who didn't like poetry before were applying modes of understanding to works and appreciating them deeply. But I simply could not drink the kool aid and perform the drudgery and dogma regurgitation the teachers college (not in the US) and school board needed from me. I eventually found a job at an IB school without finishing teachers college.

[@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger]

YES YES & YES!

[@DaanDeWeerdt]

That's why you should probably opt for a good private tutor, yes it's more expensive, but you'll have a lot more fun and actually learn how to play in a relatively short amount of time. My guitar teacher charged around €25 per hour and he basically taught me all the chords and techniques that enabled me to play a variety of different songs. At the end of each lesson, he'd tell me to practice at home, but also to learn about musical theory and he'd give me some online resources. Basically, all the fun stuff was done during those lessons and when I got home, that encouraged me to look more into it. As far as I know, that tutor didn't have any formal training whatsoever. He knew how to play the guitar quite well and was just interested in sharing his knowledge. That's the kind of teacher you want imo.

[@cosmicman621]

@@KingMinosxxvi ...keep up the good work.Safe Passage🐝🌈

[@thelongstory6395]

I guess all my piano teachers were affordable, but there were definitely a difference in level between teachers and the one I ended up paying the most (though still affordable) had a much better established system in terms of learning repertoire and actually made playing the piano much more fun. When she taught me, it was like something clicked about the methodology of learning and it drew out so much more of my potential.

[@rugbyslug]

Right, I think good teachers should be sought out and valued, personally.

[@l.w.paradis2108]

Music NEEDS good teachers. It is a rarity to play without one.

[@Mulberry2000]

The problem is they are too expensive. £40 per lesson, is not good value. Even online lessons for by some teachers is over priced. $90 for a 45 minute lesson is just daft. No thank you. All you need is the internet, a good method book, and good instrument. Sure the odd lesson by a teacher will be great, but also depending on the person they can be very bad. Like one person told me that her teacher had said she will never learn more about the instrument she was playing- the guitar i think. What the hell? I mean how do they know? Why do teachers want every one to be in the top 3%. if some kid wants to play rock licks he will not care if he going to play at the proms in london in 20 years time.

[@TweedSuit]

The key to learning anything is to first find pleasure in it.

[@demetriusmiddleton1246]

I somewhat agree, but i think the word pleasure is not specific enough. I have excelled at learned many things for which i did not enjoy or have any pleasure in it while learning it. What i think is equally important is understanding the utility of whatever you're learning. Sometimes our pleasures are misguided. And submitting ourselves to the NEED to learn a thing will reshape our desires and pleasures. Stated differently, i believe pleasure and utility should both be subordinate to humility. And humility can then help us to develop the proper awareness of both the pleasure of and utility of a thing / skill.

[@LeMatt87n]

I’m sure that a big part of it but everyone probably it has a different motivating factor. Michael Jordan wanted to prove that he was the best. That what drove him his entire playing career from the time he was litte

[@globalunconscious]

Yes, pleasure in its form, pleasure in its application, pleasure in its utility (as Demetrius talks about), pleasure in the feeling, pleasure in at least one aspect. You can replace pleasure with Value. Anything in which we find value, can hold our attention. We value it because it relates to something in our mind already that we value. If we value something enough we will spend out time on it and create new pathways in our minds. Similarly, if we are forced to do something using negative reinforcement, we can master something, but it is partly because we value NOT being punished if we don't do it. We always do what we want, if it is within the realm of our choices. It is very hard to master something for which there is neither internal nor external motivation. If there is no attractive value, then we do not persist, and the mental connections are islands receiving little reinforcement increasing the chance to forget

[@dumpsky]

the key to deeper thinking is to go easy on citing quotes. ;-)

[@GrubKiller436]

You can't find pleasure. It either is or isn't. And when it is, you never think it is. You simply pursue it more.

[@deldia]

Depends what you mean by playing piano. Be able to play scales and chords? Be able to play pop piano? Play cocktail piano? Play jazz? Play classical? Play advanced? More advanced? Even more advanced? Elite? I agree with him in general it can be done at the lower levels.

[@marveljacob2620]

i think educators need to lay more emphasis on keeping the passion on the student alive...and not theory.... when the passion is alive,the student would be ready to go at any length to acquire the knowledge needed for that craft.

[@katherinepoltoratzky6068]

How do you do that?

[@2m0ng032]

@@katherinepoltoratzky6068 Less focus on theory, more focus on sound. Imagine parents trying to teach their toddler grammar. A futile endeavour!

[@Myrslokstok]

It should exist a symbol for the 80/20-rule. I totaly agree with this.

[@baroqueguitarist5673]

This wasnt true when I was younger but now for beginners with youtube you can get all the basics on your own. Its always bad to spend alot when a beginner since youre going to learn the same thing from anyone... BUT later certain teachers whove mastered unique techniques is worth the money. Youre paying for the expierence and time it took to master at a high level. Nowadays youtube can teach you anything

[@buzabuba7326]

Heard Eric speak a little Russian on his podcast. It was pretty bad. Bad pronunciation (even for an American), awkward phrase structure - quite difficult for a native speaker to follow. Eric is a very intelligent person, but the last thing we need is someone telling a generation of "instant gratification" seekers that craft is easy. It's not. That's why there are so few craftsmen left.

[@dhollsynthmusic]

good post, i'd like to hear him play a few instruments. If it's as bad as his russian then his whole argument is void. Personally, i'm a believer of the 10,000 hours theory: if the average person (average talent/skill/experience) puts in ten-thousand hours of dedicated practice/time into a single craft, then he will almost inevitably become an expert. It's true there are some incredible natural talents out there that pick things up much quicker than the average, but i see no evidence that this means anyone is capable of same. Most of us are average, but with time and dedication we can also reach higher levels.

[@bigbaby9189]

dholl only if they put the right kind of practice in.

[@cartoonhanks1708]

@@dhollsynthmusic 10k hour was proven false a long time ago. It's based on professionals. Eric is right. In my own personal experience, I could learn 20% of spanish in a week. And I've done that. I used to not be able to shoot hoops, and then by trial and error over the course of maybe a month I've shooting consistent three pointers + my dribbling is good. The list goes on and on, I'm self-taught on the guitar and I've learned most everything because I found it interesting not because I "had a grand plan" for how to "learn" the guitar, and yet here I am seemingly proficient at it. At the same time, I'm shit at most things. But its like Eric said, if you give up on being a master you can learn a lot of shit.

[@cartoonhanks1708]

@@nadlax5920 commonly used vocab.

[@TheDrunkMunk]

@@cartoonhanks1708 "20% of Spanish in a week" Hilarious. You're either lying or you're delusional. I've learnt a foreign language and am in the process of learning two more; you're out of your mind.

[@Flat-Five]

As a (mostly) self taught piano player who also teaches full time I think that Eric is completely right but the there are also other factors to consider. I teach without needing to read at first and only later on if they want to, so my lessons are as he described more akin to learning guitar. I learned through self motivation and that’s entirely possible but lots of folk need that weekly structure and coaching to keep them going.

[@LearnPianoLive]

Absolutely!

[@puccaso]

1:00 he's right though. I can play more or less any instrument i pick up. I have a harder time without frets, like on a violin or Ud (fretless lute), or with a trombone.

[@Mulberry2000]

He is right. I have never had a music lesson when i picked up the guitar, piano, flute, and trumpet. I did use online services for piano, guitar and drums. But mostly i learnt from videos, and books (never one to one lessons). The guitar example is very good, yes you can play 80% of songs with only 3 to 4 chords. Piano is a bit different but the way books are organised they tend to hold you back. Mostly they go on about scales, and not about chords. If just learned chords as in the guitar example you would be playing 80% of songs. The piano teachers and books want you to learn scales because it promotes figure dexerity and and composition. The problem is that only happens when you learn the chords for the instrument. One thing about the piano teaching, is they give you good sight reading and playing skills. What do i mean ? You learn to read music and play from from that music, this eventually promotes good memorisaiton of the musical piece. So yes i can play the piano, yes i can read music, but can i play complicated musical pieces no because i have not reach that stage, but one day i will. As for guitar playing, it depends if you go the memorisation route or the graphic route. if you go via the latter you can play to a video and eventually keep in time, but you develop at graphical way of playing a musical piece this does not help in memorisation of the music your playing (rocksmith + and games). That is a problem if you want to play on your own. Where as piano play does help you memorise the musical piece your playing. So both ways have their plus and minuses. Learng scales is very good for the hands, and the brain. It helps you understand the construction of chords, it also helps in musical improvisaiton, which helps to create new music. Scales also help you learn the notes on a instrument.

[@Hvmtech]

so true ! i played guitar for 10 years never got great but i was good , started learning piano , picked it up 10 times faster and would consider my self a top tier piano player, and it made my guitar playing 10 times better, just becasue the piano made me understand music on a whole new level.

[@3ertin]

Lesson all: A piano has 52 white keys and 36 black keys. There are 8 keys (notes) in one octave. CDEFGABC. Those are the white keys. You'll find the C before the first of the two black keys. Stay on the white keys. Now you are playing in C mayor and when you start with an A (five white keys up from C) in an A minor key. Now move every key one up, Include the black keys. Now you are playing in C# mayor and A# minor scale. The black keys are C# D# F# G# A#. Notice there is no E# or B#! Now move every key up again, include the black keys and try to think of the name of the scale. Continue until you are back at C. Next play CEG together. That's a C mayor chord C#FG#. That's a C# mayor chord Move the middle key back one position. When it sounds sad, you made a minor chord. Now you know how to improvise within a scale and play the chords accompanied.

[@sanjacobs6261]

The number of notes on a piano is entirely dependent on it's octave range. There are 12 keys in an octave. Those 8 you're talking about are the named keys.

[@musicgaines7170]

You have hardly touched the surface. I dare you to get into the nodes.

[@musicgaines7170]

Not to mention the countless types of harmonies.

[@sanjacobs6261]

@@musicgaines7170 You mean modes?

[@musicgaines7170]

@@sanjacobs6261 typo*

[@slapmyfunkybass]

This is somewhat misleading. It is true that knowledge on musical theory will give you a head start in playing an instrument, as you know if you play certain notes it will sound right. That’s where it ends though, there is a world of difference between half pedalling on a piano and double stop harmonics on a violin. The nuances of the instrument are so unique that the greats will dedicate their life to mastering it. Let’s not lie to ourselves here, playing an instrument well takes a lifetime of patience and dedication. Knowing the right chords to play takes nothing away from the time someone has to put in.

[@alan5496]

He didn't say you could master everything, he even said the opposite. If you give up reaching for mastery, you can pick up a large number of the core principles in anything, but you won't necessarily be good or great at it.

[@TheDrunkMunk]

Yep. I mean, he literally says that playing a few chords will get you 'far enough', or something like that. Which is true dependin on how you define far enough, if you practice five chords for a month on guitar or piano then you'll be able to play plenty of boring and repetitive songs. But as we all know if you actually want to do something interesting it'll take much more time and skill than playing a few chords.

[@ingolfura.4327]

You are completely missing his point

[@hovz-zo8lf]

Orson Welles said that you can learn "the whole bag" of film making in a day and a half.

[@____uncompetative]

I remember. Some one took his from radio to a cinema and pointed at the screen and said "Closeup", "Two Shot", "Master", "Pan", etc. He then went off and put it all into _Citizen Kane._ He wanted to get a low angle to make Hearst / Kane look imposing so he dug a hole in the concrete of the studio floor to put the camera in it to get the angle he wanted. The studio weren't pleased. The movie was a classic. I don't like it. I prefer _Touch of Evil._

[@jfo3000]

I myself am happy to be very good at guitar, and not mediocre at several instruments. I've been playing & learning 40 yrs. To me it's a journey, it's creative, meditative, it's spiritual. It's not about being almost good at several things, none of which ever gets you to flow, huge, huge difference.

[@SineEyed]

My guess is, Eric doesn't play any instruments. I say this because his comments in that regard strike me as completely ignorant. You think he plays?..

[@illegallemur4024]

Dude, I thought I was the only one that realized this. Guitar flow is fucking godly

[@onetwo3411]

@@SineEyed he plays the guitar pretty well.

[@michaelvarney.]

@@SineEyed he plays.

[@SineEyed]

@@michaelvarney. this is the most recent I could find, given the 30 seconds I was willing to spend looking... kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKOUXnR9hK56ntk Sounds to me by his playing, and the things they've talked about through the first 8 minutes or so that I've watched, like Eric is pretty much a noob. He might not have played guitar (or anything else) a year ago or whenever it was that I put it to question..

[@nctunes]

There are gate keeper for many things one wants to do in all schools of learning. Teachers can complicate a drink of water. Good teachers can simplify surgery as common sense allows and still keep from sacrificing quality. If one really wants it, it will be easy. If its too easy its not worth the sweat.

[@ethanmay1767]

I feel like I am at the precipice of understanding the formula of aperture, shutter speed & sensitivity behind a "correct exposure" in photography (light). I've never seen anybody discuss this math! :)

[@Myrslokstok]

And the most famus rules in photography: 1) Light 2) Tripod 3) Tripod 4) Tripod 5) Use what you got and learn it. 6) Move to a better location. 7) Get closer.

[@hvalenti]

Attitude toward any given topic is always already either halfway won or lost from the beginning BASED ON ONE'S ATTITUDE.

[@harrymills2770]

But I 100% agree that teachers tend to way over-value their teaching, especially the formal instruction/lecture part. The older I get, the more I just want to hit the highlights, give students some watch-outs/ideas that they might never come up with on their own in a million years. But then get out of the way.

[@cavejohnson4054]

Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.

[@fingerhorn4]

Talented players with musical aptitude can often play many instruments, but only up to a limited level. Training your neuron pathways to get quickly to an advanced level is clearly possible, but seems limited to very few players. While it is true that a certain level of theoretical understanding increases your chances of adapting to whichever instrument you choose, there is still the challenge of training your fingers and hands. Piano is the easiest instrument to sound reasonably competent on. Try that on violin and your theory will soon break down. BTW most music teachers are not expensive and a great deal less rich than, say, a podcasting polymath!

[@dr.mikeybee]

The EZPlay system is pretty good.

[@CodyHazelleMusic]

Amen. Learning to read music and play scales are all important, but those things dont teach you how to PLAY music. I am a terrible sightreader at piano, but I have a good ear and I know my theory and I can phrase things nicely. Bass guitar was the first instrument I picked up (and had lessons along with it) and if the only thing I was taught was scales and bass clef I never would have played the thing. Instead I learned all my favorite metal songs... David byrne points this out in his book, too. He basically says the "retention rate" of sorts is higher for the kids who are just taught how to play and have at it.

[@atlehman69]

Learn everything on one key for piano, make sure ur playing an electric, and simply use the transpose feature to put it in the right key. It's essentially like using a capo for guitar.

[@balddonaldcerrone7930]

Aaron Lehman then you remain mediocre

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

Basically, learn the underlying, abstract theory so you can transcribe it to all the different interfaces, without getting hung up on the little details of any one interface. This applies to so much in life, although he's right that it isn't the path to mastery in any one thing. But I suppose that's ok. You could argue that there have been very successful generalists who essentially were masters of generalism. Steve Jobs comes to mind. Elon Musk, too, I would say.

[@LearnPianoLive]

Nice summary!

[@AzimApurbo]

This is how I learned the Piano. I took a few Piano classes, but they had like 5% influence on what I play now. I basically figured out the different chords as such, and figured out that it's just a bunch of keys that you use to "make a coherent sound". Et voila. Same thing with *any* other subject. Pattern recognition.

[@dumpsky]

valid, but 'learned the piano' is a bit fuzzy. are you a piano virtuoso?

[@AzimApurbo]

@@dumpsky Idk what you exactly have in mind by the word virtuoso, but I said "learned the piano" with respect to the expected degree of "mastery" on a subject/instrument described by Eric Weinstein in the video. But to go even a little further to answer your question: I can "play" / "accompany" any song on the Piano.

[@TheDrunkMunk]

Bruh there's a big difference between memorising a few chords and actually being able to read and play classical piano music

[@AzimApurbo]

GabeN Of course there is! And I’m not claiming I can read sheet music nor play classical. But in my definition of “being able to play the Piano”, you don’t HAVE TO be able to read sheet music and play classical in order to say “I can play the Piano”. That’s the whole point tbh, not a master of it, but just enough to be able to at least do it “decently” in the average eye.

[@TheDrunkMunk]

@@AzimApurbo Fair enough. My definition of being able to play the piano includes reading sheet music. It only takes a few months to learn and doesn't require mastery, therefore I'd label it as being essential. But if you're happy not knowing it then more power to you brother

[@arthurtfm]

I'm a piano teacher and my comment will probably strike you as biased, of course, and I don't blame you. But I would be irresponsible not to say this after watching this video: don't try to master the piano by yourself. No matter how quickly you learn, there are problems in piano playing that are opaque to a learner and remain so unless there's an experienced observer to point it to you and show you the solution. And this happens over and over again. And theory is not enough: music is about the education of the body and of your own emotions and conscious attention, all of which interact in very complicated ways.

[@A.GONEzalez]

Hey my friend, I don’t think you watched the video. He’s not arguing that mastering ANY skill doesn’t require a expert level of supervision and guidance. I think his argument is that those masterful techniques only account for 20% of piano playing(or pretty much any skill in my opinion) and someone can gain plenty of enjoyment out of just learning the 80% or maybe less. But what I think his bigger argument is that there are some gatekeepers and teachers who mainly focus on that 20% which is inherently way more difficult and challenging. Doing this potentially scares or weeds out a large population of people who could have just learned that 80%

[@ebefl]

You’re absolutely right and this guy is a blowhard. How famous famous pianist were self taught? The teacher can rearrange that {system) for you.

[@arthurtfm]

@@A.GONEzalez As a pianist, I can't say I understand what is meant by an "80%" mastery of the piano, or another such percentage. It's not as though there is some objective 100%-level of achievement available to a pianist, and a piano course is aimed at getting you there. If we are referring strictly to technical problems (what to do with your body to play), I don't know how many excruciating, painful and potentially harmful years a student would take to master "80%" of them on their own (whatever that means). But even then, technical skills alone are only a small part in music education (arguably less important than many others), and they should be coupled with a deep understanding of music theory, notation, conventions, phraseology, expressivity and, most difficult of all, an understanding of your your emotions, attention and concentration as you play. And what music teachers do is certainly not confined to some "20%" very-difficult techniques, but rather they guide a student, individually, through every step of the way from the very beginning.

[@globalunconscious]

​@@ebefl They are precise in their statements. If we value mastery, then a teacher is needed. If we value usefulness, or pleasure, or functionality then 80% is all that is required. In school that translates to: we want students to be useful in society and we can get all of them to 80% with less effort than we do now. In music: if we want to be functional and have 100 bands, then 80% is faster and more efficient to achieve. If all we want mastery, of which only a small percentage will achieve, then we teach everyone the same way and pick out the masters in the end. It seems the argument is that there is a ton of time 'wasted' by everyone else that did not become the master. Similarly for sports. 1,000,000 children strive to be the best basketball player and 1 masters the skill and gets to the 'big show'. This serves those who make money off of basketball revenue, but the remaining 999,999 people were promised a chance that was slight for the same amount of effort. It seems wasteful to me. I'd rather have a society with more functional, practical community bands, where everyone knows how to function in 4 languages, and everyone knows how to bake a cake, garden, fix a bike. All these can be learned in the time it took to practice basketball for hours after school. If society values having one person in a million hit a three pointer at the buzzer more than a society that can communicate effectively, fix their own stuff, grow their own food, do basic math when buying goods, can balance their books, do their taxes, ... then choose that. You can still have mastery in that society. The things you are eliminating are the wasted hours in skills that will not be used, the frustration for those not apt to learn the more difficult techniques, the over-valuing of mastery, and the belief that we CANNOT do what has been locked behind a wall of rigorous technique. We will lose judgement of those that do not speak perfect french, and communicate functionally to the french. We will have fun in our community bands, with many more players, but with the same number of 'really good' players. It is more fun when more people come out. What we may also gain, is having more people participating in more activities that are common to the community. This has the added effect of being like millions of small observational experiments in functionality, which often lead to discovering new ways of doing something that we have always done one way, due to the 'gatekeeper' telling us it is the 'only way' The 80% ways may acknowledge the different ways in which we all learn. The accessibility of knowledge, which is gained, is useful in my vision of the future world.

[@A.GONEzalez]

@@arthurtfm I respect your opinion as a Pianist and apologize in advance for the long response. It was my mistake to use the word "technique" You're right the knowledge of Piano covers way more than the technical techniques of your body. I should have said piano playing knowledge in general to better encompass all things you mentioned. Also I agree that there is no metaphorical "Achievement Unlocked" once someone learns "100%" of the art of piano playing. I think we can all agree that does not exist anywhere in real life and it is only something out of video games. But I still think there is a lot we all can benefit from looking at certain modalities with a broader mindset. The 80/20 idea is more of an abstraction than a literal quantifiable aspect of life. I think the last clip at 1:26 best describes it. In it he compares the slower learners curve of how to read music and repetitive nature of learning musical scales that is often taught in the early stages of piano students. To the I-V-vi-IV chord progression which sometimes taught to Guitar students. Both of these "techniques" are taught at an early stage of learning the instrument and in no way ALL theres is to know about the instrument but you can't deny the real life application benefits from one vs the other. Which I think is what most people will end up doing with the instrument instead of becoming the next virtuoso who are the main ones who benefit from that slower learners curve. I will admit that I did not properly read the title of the video and did not see what channel this video is on. I think that is the main source of our disagreement. I watched the original video and I think its worth pointing out he never claimed there isn't a need for expensive piano teachers. This is just an extreme inference by the person who created the title of the video. I personally do think there is a need for expensive piano teachers and not just expensive, but true experts who have unlocked the secrets of the instruments that can show them to others who really want to learn them. However I ALSO think there is value in what he was talking about some teachers maybe trying to justify how important their job is by making something more difficult than what it truly is. But as I said before I didn't realize what channel this was and I am fairly good at reading the room so I will respectfully bow out from further responding.

[@CamKnoppMusic]

So true that music teachers overcomplicate things and make learning to play a musical instrument this horrible arduous task. The truth is, as he said, that if you learn like 5 chords you can play an enormous number of songs.

[@globalunconscious]

They are precise in their statements. If we value mastery, then a teacher is needed. If we value usefulness, or pleasure, or functionality then 80% is all that is required. In school that translates to: we want students to be useful in society and we can get all of them to 80% with less effort than we do now. In music: if we want to be functional and have 100 bands, then 80% is faster and more efficient to achieve. If all we want mastery, of which only a small percentage will achieve, then we teach everyone the same way and pick out the masters in the end. It seems the argument is that there is a ton of time 'wasted' by everyone else that did not become the master. Similarly for sports. 1,000,000 children strive to be the best basketball player and 1 masters the skill and gets to the 'big show'. This serves those who make money off of basketball revenue, but the remaining 999,999 people were promised a chance that was slight for the same amount of effort. It seems wasteful to me. I'd rather have a society with more functional, practical community bands, where everyone knows how to function in 4 languages, and everyone knows how to bake a cake, garden, fix a bike. All these can be learned in the time it took to practice basketball for hours after school. If society values having one person in a million hit a three pointer at the buzzer more than a society that can communicate effectively, fix their own stuff, grow their own food, do basic math when buying goods, can balance their books, do their taxes, ... then choose that. You can still have mastery in that society. The things you are eliminating are the wasted hours in skills that will not be used, the frustration for those not apt to learn the more difficult techniques, the over-valuing of mastery, and the belief that we CANNOT do what has been locked behind a wall of rigorous technique. We will lose judgement of those that do not speak perfect french, and communicate functionally to the french. We will have fun in our community bands, with many more players, but with the same number of 'really good' players. It is more fun when more people come out. What we may also gain, is having more people participating in more activities that are common to the community. This has the added effect of being like millions of small observational experiments in functionality, which often lead to discovering new ways of doing something that we have always done one way, due to the 'gatekeeper' telling us it is the 'only way' The 80% ways may acknowledge the different ways in which we all learn. The accessibility of knowledge, which is gained, is useful in my vision of the future world.

[@globalunconscious]

The concept is somewhat like the movie 'Money Ball'. Team building is more valuable than looking for the 'best' at something. 10 sorta good players with flaws are better than a team with one super-star. The 80-20 principle promises almost everyone can play at a good level. Do we value a society like that though. The US is mentally and financially rewarding 'best', 'gold medal', oscar winner, while you may get better results with everyone being an OK actor, swimmer, runner, business.... with the option to become the best in the world at any given time. The goal of teaching could easily be to get everyone to pass with 100% on the exam, but only teaching 80% of the material. If you want the extra 20% you can take it for extra credit.

[@Hvmtech]

i can play any string instrument and if i pracitced for a day i could "play any wind instrument" drums are a bit different becausse rythm is a different monster. but hes right its all the same basic theory just different interfaces

[@Goobtard]

As a guitar player I will say that he is correct that you can play most songs using 3-4 cords but it's unsatisfying because 1. Every song you play will sound the same 2. it usually involves approximating the song rather than playing it exactly as it actually sounds So it always feels better to learn the song correctly

[@redjammie8342]

You can spend 5 years learning and playing some of your favorite songs while wondering why you can't play other songs that always seem hard to you. It turns out you were making some hand posture or picking mistake that you wouldn't know is wrong if not for an expert helping you. I speak this from experience. I never had a Guitar teacher, but it had a negative impact on my potential because of the bad habits I picked up unintentionally and no one was there to tell me I cannot build on that.

[@dylanashcroft890]

It’s just the starting point. Of course you would move on to other chords and techniques. Just in a far easier way than you would get from formal education.

[@acsidaho]

so true. I learned the piano that way. when I took theory in college, i learn the stuff I was playing had a lot of names, patterns and descriptions -- actually made theory fun going at it in reverse.

[@SineEyed]

Your anecdote has nothing to do with his point, so, not true..

[@magicpotion8]

SineEyed 2020 Your comment has nothing constructive in it, so, it is not worth listening to... The first comment was related to what Eric was talking about anyway. He's talks about it at 1:51

[@jaydubya3698]

Well, yeah...maybe. When I was a kid, I played the trumpet and was pretty good at it because all you really have to do is learn to buzz your lips in the right way for each note and you only have three valves to worry about to adjust the pitch. Not that hard...you mainly need a good ear. Violin and guitar? Forget that. I have no manual coordination as far as that's concerned. Zero. So it's easy to say, "Oh, you just have to figure out the pattern and then you can master 80% of the instrument." For string instruments...it's hell to the no as far as I'm concerned.

[@hankzane]

Well yeah the scales are all laid out and color coded for you on a flat plane. Compare to any other instrument 🎺 3 valves 🎸 fret positions 🎷memorizing every flat and sharp in every scale

[@sifridbassoon]

unfortunately, this clip does not contain an explanation of the process that Eric is advancing, so I can't really respond to that. Sorry if I rehash stuff you've already talked about. This is my dream discussion. I got a BM in music theory and an MA in Linguistics. And along the way, there was a misbegotten attempt to a CS degree. After I left school, I got a job at a software company and worked in IT until I retired a few years ago, so I have been around musicians, linguists and compsci folks all my life. There is definitely some connection between math (or computer science) and musical understanding. One theory I have always heard is that they are both involved in processing symbolic language, and I guess I agree with that to an extent. I'm not sure if you covered this, but playing an instrument involves a large amount of physical training - making one finger do one thing while others do something else. This is one reason for the maddening, stultifying scale exercises. Over and over and over again, until I have "integrated" those muscle interactions with my brain to the point that I don't have to think about it (the story is that Czerny would sit at a piano playing scales with one hand and reading a book with the other. And this is not as primitive as it might sound. When Serena Williams was learning tennis, you KNOW she had to put in hours and hours and hours trying to learn how to serve. Even if you only want to be an amateur, you'll have to put in some mindless hours serving that damn ball (I was never able to get the hang of it). And if you play the piano and want to get a refresher on how frustrating it is coordinating muscles in time to the music, go take an organ class at your community college. Now you're trying to add both feet and a third keyboard.

[@ZachMeador]

this is great insight

[@harrymills2770]

And yes, it can take a month before you ever get a good tone on an instrument. Ask any trumpet player what the first month is like.

[@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger]

Harry Mills - 😜 like so many instruments! The violin is like skinning a cat. The clarinet is like choking a duck, the bass is like putting down a buffalo. Thank you for that comment! 👍🏼

[@davideanes3425]

Well, to be honest, the first month for a trumpet player is acquiring the ego and learning which notes are considered “high” so they know what to shoot for in practice.

[@JR-bj3uf]

I always called it learning to work the piano machine. I can teach you to play guitar in a weekend and with a little practice you can accompany yourself fairly quickly (four chord songs). They could teach piano by chords but they won't.

[@LearnPianoLive]

True enough

[@FrancisSong]

IM SO GLAD SOMEONE SAID THIS

[@samsungtelevision695]

Talk about a guest appearance 💛

[@geemanbmw]

Eric is just plain AWESOME

[@matthewhorizon6050]

Eric can say whatever he wants, but understanding certain aspects of the harmonized scale is one think, application and technique is another. I've heard numbers of people mention this musical hack, but the instrament you're playing doesnt give a shit what you know, it responds only to your technique. But ultimately, I agree, people dont "play instraments," they either fiddle around with them or learn theory and technique to acquire some assembly of competence.

[@LearnPianoLive]

I think I agree with you. We're gonna have a good thread here. Would you mind editing out the expletive in the comment? It's mostly adults, but KZbin has me listed as a kid-friendly channel and I have no idea what might or might not get me removed from certain searches. Sorry. Google's a fickle overlord. I mean...long live Google.

[@AaronShorr85]

This isn't really true. The guitar isn't simply "Learning four or five chords and you're on your way." If this is your goal then that's ok, and but you will be limited. In order to play the guitar at a high level you need years of work and need to spend time with a teacher. There are basically no exceptions.

[@classicmartini]

The first two million scales are the hardest. 😏

[@TheDrunkMunk]

@Thomas Bricker That's so silly though. Actually study the guitar for half a year and you'll know so much more than 'a few chords', but you'll also definitely not be a master. You'll just be proficient. I see the problem in what he's saying is his definition of 80% is stupidly low, it's more like 20 or 10%

[@pauliamsocool]

I taught myself piano, by ear. 25 years ago, before youtube. I now play professionally. Now, with KZbin and the internet, anybody can learn anything they want. *edit: doesn’t mean you’ll be good at it.

[@RayanKhan]

You gie me hope, i will practie every day

[@pauliamsocool]

@@RayanKhan do. It is nowhere near as difficult as it looks. Practice every day, whether for 10 minutes or 10 hours, just every day.

[@jonathanbell7287]

Don't be fooled by Eric. It ALL depends on your goal: if you want to play Billy Joel, Elton John, The Hill Street Blues or Cheers themes, Disney tunes, or the all-time favorite Christmas chestnuts at holiday parties then yes, I can supply a student (generally 12 and up) with rudimentary elements of tonal harmony and that system's interface with the instrument, and a modestly above average student can be off and running playing Piano Man (ugh) or Frozen's Let It Go (just stick a fork through my temple and get it over with) within a few months. However, if the goal is to gain some meaningful degree of command over the recreation and interpretation of the masters: JS Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart, Liszt, Brahms, etc, then a deep immersion into a disciplined and graduated regime of technique building is required and a good teacher is essential for this. It is the integrated phenomenon of building technique and musicianship (emotion/intellect/physico-athletic) that requires more than an app. The old fashioned teacher-student structure is still, and will always within this domain, be a massive advantage (unless of course your teacher is a quack). I would also add that, as it pertains to a mastery of improvisation, a teacher- at least in the early goings to provide a plan and structure of practice and ear training- is indispensable.

[@manchesterisred99]

Holy moly that's fascinating. ❤

[@shaft9000]

It's more like 30 or 40 chords, Eric. Not everything is Ramones and 12-bar blues, while around a third of all pop tunes (still!!) go for the I-iv-V. And some idioms require a much more succinct and/or sensitive ability to play rhythmically 'in the pocket', which is not a result of theory but of practice - for which there is no 80/20 "winging it".

[@blazegarcia5607]

Most things are a lot easier than what you have been led to believe. Managing your own retirement account, playing an instrument, drawing, woodworking, on and on. What matters is a strong desire to learn, and an attitude that allows you to push through frustration.

[@yoyo41210]

These guys are so smart. So much clarity

[@albertbauli]

The only problem is that there are only a handful of teachers that can teach the actual technique that can take you into a master level. That can't be learned from books nor the internet, sadly neither from most music teachers, even neither from most of skilled players. Most of us are left to learn it by ourselves from experience and trial and error. I talk from experience... I am a professional classical musician and I wish I had that type of teacher at a young age. The older one gets, the less opportunity you are going to have finding it and the more will it be your job to fix your own problems because no one will find it possible to help an "old" player since those are doomed as helpless; I believe due to the fact that most teachers are just horrible at their jobs because they learned the right way of playing, the keys thst unlocked the mistery, so young in their lives that they don't really know why they are good players.

[@dennis_johnson]

I’ve experienced this when I started playing guitar too. Friends who started years before me ended up hating the instrument because of teachers who took away the fun from learning music. I’ve found the concept of deliberate practice very useful. Small 20-30 mins sessions on very specific concepts to practice and master. For example, “Today I’ll do major triads on strings 6543”. Doing it at the same time everyday helps form a habit that boosts your learning.

[@karthiklakshmi]

Agreed!!!!

[@deadastronaut2440]

What about guitar?

[@Moveplaylift]

If you want to learn music in this fashion then check out Duncan Lorien ... this is how he does it.

[@poriley1977]

I agree totally with music and music theory... Never thought about it past that but I believe it to be true...

[@EnigmaEuslam]

As a guitar teacher, I try to teach in exactly the way that Eric describes. Most people aren’t receptive to the idea, however, that focusing intently on a few basic principles will unlock the entirety of the instrument. I believe that our system of education is largely responsible for this mindset.

[@daviddequasie6816]

This guy has obviously not spent many years as a music teacher. Every student is different. Some students are entirely unique in many ways and force us teachers to completely change our approach. For every student who wants to learn, there is the right teacher and remember that it's extremely rare for anyone to find that playing a musical instrument is easy.

[@chrisc7265]

Great to see Eric outside of his normal romping grounds!

[@blankspace0000]

YES

[@dheibeljr]

Wow this just justified my existence. I have always been a jack of all trades and everyone always hounds me for taking one topic and bridging into other topics that to me are highly relevant but to them seem arbitrary or entirely unrelated because I guess they cant make the same connections I do or simply dont care and I messed up in judging my audience. I do everything myself and only get formal education for my degree since stem degrees are still valuable and necessary compared to the trash liberal arts degrees that anyone can read and learn themselves in a library without bullshit bias being injected by their corrupted professors. With STEM you must prove you can do the math and understand the ideas because people's lives will often depend on you being competent. But my whole life has been a train where each car is a topic or skill and I have just continually jumped from car to car linking everything together and exploring the interactions and cross overs. I think that is why I love physics so much because while i understand so much my ultimate goal is to tie everything together under one umbrella and that takes you to physics for explaining the base nature and building blocks of physical reality and the universe. I wish more people were like me. Back in the day people had to be like me. They had to learn on their own and learn a large breadth of information and topics/skills/etc to survive even if just learning from trial and error. But specialization in the modern world has caused everyone to be soldiers for their own tiny understanding of the world centered entirely around their specialization. This limits their world view and limits their ability to expand their scope of reality and ultimatly it causes corruption and problems as the most successful soldiers use the system to try and make their specialization a protected and supported item even if it is detrimental to the world as a whole. A perfect example is city dwelling politicians making laws that hurt farmers and ultimatly hurt the city via food supply and price/quality/quantity. The worst part is any idiot thinking they know what changes to make to a complex system with literally infinite number of variables. Aka beurocrats and politicians/lawmakers/activists. They are stupid enough to think they can account for all the variables (while always forgetting about human nature) and make changes to further their idea of good. We have learned through communism this NEVER works. When working with a complex system you should make as small and as few changes as possible because 99% of the time your actions will cause backfire and create just as much, if not more, harm in the long run than the amount your act was attempting to stop at the onset. Just another reason we need more federalism where the system is broken down into more managable pieces and handled by those living in that system and not by one all powerful govt a thousand miles away with no clue as to the variables in play in your neck of the woods.

[@kirinwake]

Well said, I'm glad we've shared a similar experience. I jump from chapter to chapter within my life always connecting the subjects and using previous lessons to help me learn in unrelated endeavors. I was obsessed with music, art, writing, then psychology, neurochemistry, then drugs, first person shooters, then martial arts, weightlifting, street basketball, and now economics. I've never truly mastered anything, but my mentors and peers are often astonished at the pace and creativity in my learning. Your analogy reminds me of the current day problem of the FED and central bankers thinking they understand fully the complexities of the monetary system. But in their arrogance, their tampering and adjusting have caused great despair and inequality in society as the second and third order knock on effects are never as they predicted. In fact, the result of their tampering is always worse than expected. The cure is worse than the disease with central bankers.

[@kirinwake]

Do you also have a knack for metaphors?

[@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger]

It’s very well written!

[@roy2079]

I'm similar in that regard. how about me you and kelso open up a discussion and see if we can enlighten each other in some subjects regarding economics and freedom?

[@roy2079]

@@kirinwake let's open up a discussion

[@VivekKumar-ki1bt]

0:54. OOPs refresher

[@angelastamos1722]

I love this guy!!!!

[@davidaragon2399]

For the most part, I'm inclined to agree, but voice is unique in that proper vocal technique is more difficult to teach because it all takes place within the human body and has to be learned via feel. Voice teachers have to have exceptional communication skills because they have to interpret a students internal sensations as well as modify the students technique through explanations that use analagies and metaphors whose effectiveness can be highly variable depending on the student. Additionally, good music teachers, regardless of the instrument not only teach proper technique, but they also have to teach musical skills that expand beyond the scope of their particular instrument. When your digging into a subject as broad as the study of music there's an enormous amount of information to navigate and having a good teacher can be absolutely essential in choosing which areas to work on to help the student achieve their goals and facilitate their development. Also, its not true that you only need to know 3 or 4 chords on guitar to play 90% of popular music. You can play one chord on the guitar at least 5 different ways depending on how you choose to voice it.

[@tryitout-701]

Anybody wants to find these kinds of systematizations

[@nathanieI]

I dont feel so bad giving up lessons now. (check out my music on my channel btw)

[@stoopidpants]

I like Eric but here, I think, he's bloviating. I took about 15-20 classes from a very gifted piano teacher (Hello H. Frazze {Frazzie?} if you ever read this!) at $15 a lesson. I told him, up front, I only want you to teach me the "key" I need to unlock the mystery. Within 2 weeks I had learned Moonlight Sonata 1st movement. Within 1 year I could play the 3rd movement. But Eric is correct when he says "people will tell you you're doomed to mediocrity - a concert pianist I knew refused to accept I could fully play pieces after 1 year that I could, in fact, play. 20 years later, I can no longer play the 3rd movement (lack of practice) but if I put the time in, I could again. Substitute "I' and "me" for anyone and there is a similar outcome -- I am not and was not particularly gifted but I was very motivated.

[@erikthys3911]

Notice how his right eye moves independently from his left: alien?

[@SineEyed]

I think I understand what's at the heart of the point he's making, but the analogy he makes to music and musical instruments is 100% wrong..

[@ForMindlessConsumption]

He’s not talking about playing the instruments “well” per se. He’s talking about being able to play something coherently on any instrument, which is pretty easy if you know theory and have figured out the notes/embouchure of the instrument. Music itself is a language. Instruments are just different kinds of voiceboxes

[@shyama5612]

I wish i had heard this in my school days. I was told by a violin teacher, 'maybe you should think of a simpler instrument' - that's the last I picked up ANY instrument.

[@LearnPianoLive]

That's rough. I'm sorry

[@delatroy]

Anyone know how though? I need to pay a new kind of teacher 🤔

[@LearnPianoLive]

80/20 piano. Coming soon...

[@dylanashcroft890]

What jobs outside academia would require the last 2-3% of mastery? There can’t be that many.

[@LearnPianoLive]

Sounds like you have an exaggerated respect for academia

[@badthoughts7238]

Which makes me wonder why people aren't acquiring insane skills at any number of things when the barrier to entry has been lowered so much. Why aren't there Teslas times a million? Is it that all their energy is being focused into pointless and empty pursuits?

[@GrubKiller436]

The barrier of entry has not been lowered.

[@thingsivelearnedfrombarryh2616]

You can study with Barry Harris at his class for 15 dollars. He's the world's greatest jazz teacher.

[@Starlightlive]

The real truth professionals are only needed for the last 2%-5% up to 10% for mastery. 80% knowledge quick education "youtube university" is way highly efficient method for average man

[@thysvanzyl2782]

More accurately, there is a problem with clueless piano-teachers - many with degrees in music - of which there are many-many-many! Really good teachers: very-very few on earth! But youare never going to play Rachmaninoff and Bartok piano concertos without the best teachers from when you start out as a child.

[@GrubKiller436]

This is why Muhammad Ali is labeled the greatest boxer of all time. Muhammad Ali uses techniques which boxers will teach you NOT to do on day 1.

[@rebelwithoutapplause5263]

What he means is... Play piano like Nirvana!

[@mattward5010]

The English language is made out of phonograms is around of 242 phonograms. With those 242 phonograms you can decode most of the English language. this is how it was taught for the longest time until the USA introduced sight words. Now the English language moved away from phonograms to sight words. I bet most people reading this doesn't know that the English has 242 phonograms. qu has a ck sound like it the antique

[@LearnPianoLive]

Kindergarten teacher has entered the chat

[@mattward5010]

@@LearnPianoLive dyslexic

[@LearnPianoLive]

@@mattward5010 Ah - right! I only really encountered those concepts while earning my teacher credential. That makes sense though.

[@evskis]

❤️

[@jwallguitar]

He also learned classical guitar by playing with his pinky because he thought “p” meant pinky. A teacher sure would have been nice.

[@LearnPianoLive]

agreed. There is a place for teachers.

[@storey8965]

What a great speaking voice Eric Weinstein has as well as being highly intelligent. I could listen to him read the telephone directory.

[@fukun5773]

His right eye can move without moving his lefr eye 0:00

[@notacommie5415]

Each instrument has a mechanical aspect associated with it to play correct I teach meat, potatoes and mechanics rather than stringing people along with Mary Had a Little Lamb

[@sillygoose4472]

Eric knows music better than any teacher and most peers I've ever worked with

[@edbernardmusic3599]

That's too bad. He is the wrong person to talk about music.

[@ericsilva9323]

His eyes!!👀👀👀

[@HecmarJayam]

He is very wrong about guitar though...

[@Ebb0Productions]

How so? Like he said, after learning a few chords you can play a a huge number of songs.

[@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger]

Why not? Beatles songs are like 4 chords and everyone’s hearts’ melts at the hearing of them.

[@illegallemur4024]

Not to get picky but classical music was built on piano. Try to translate Flamenco (Paco de Lucia) on the piano

[@mazklassa9338]

Is Eric Harvey's brother ?

[@LearnPianoLive]

Brett's brother

[@aarondimoff5180]

The difficulty regarding this approach to music, is simply that any ability below Mastery or near-mastery is useless, outside of personal enjoyment of course. If you do not Master your instrument, you stand 0% chance of making money, or using your ability publically. It is very easy to get 80% ability in music. 95% is exceedingly rare, and requires years of study with a master teacher. Nobody gets 100%.

[@darklord220]

The amount of people who are masters of anything is very low anyway. If you are one of those people with potential to be a master this video is probably something you already understand.

[@theconversation9103]

"It is very easy to get 80% ability in music." Rubbish

[@StraightWhiteGuy33]

As a music teacher of 8 years - yep.

[@batfink274]

If you're a genius like me

[@leoquesto9183]

The problem is that Eric either misunderstands or isn’t really talking about actual mastery. What’s mastery here, hammering pop tunes, or is he talking about someone stumbling through Scriabin sonatas, or a pinch of Alkan? The truth is, most people who are capable of playing, say, Scriabin’s sonatas are absolutely not masters (mechanically, technically, interpretatively, creatively). Many touring pianists are not truly masters. Most perusers of Bach’s Well Tempered Clavier are not masterly with the material. There’s always the issue of actual talent, which is the vision, the voice. The guitar example, btw, is particularly ridiculous: “three or four chords and you can pretty much play 80% of want you want…?” Really? Elliot Carter’s guitar compositions? No. Most of the classical repertoire, that would be a hard no; jazz, a serious no; what about progressive rock? No. Not even the parts Sting wrote and Andy Summers played for The Police in ‘80s Top 40 pop are available with Eric’s absurd three or four chords. Eric’s thoughts on music and mastery are firmly naive or else language is failing him. Yes, of course, you ‘systematize’ as anyone does with anything one learns in earnest but mastery in music also begs for a modicum of talent. What he’s calling ‘mastery’ should be called, perhaps, “familiarity”.

[@garydeforve5055]

Dat har tho.

[@SimonDanellPiano]

I mean, kind of.. I'm a professional pianist and teacher, and these useless "first you spend three years trying to learn how to read notes, then restart as you have no knowledge of actual music" bother me. So especially for beginners, it's important to have many instant gratifications on the way. However, that you'll figure this out without a teacher in the first place, is very unlikely. Anyway, at some point you'll reach an obstacle that you can't pass without the expertise of someone else, and then you're doomed. On the other hand, if your goal is to be able to play a few easy songs on every instrument, then you might not need a teacher.

[@SmeagolTheBeagle]

I think this is dangerous advice. He's right that what makes people musical is their understanding of the musical system through the various musical syntax (improv, composition, etc) and languages. If you learn basic diatonic chord theory, circle of fifths, etc the brain and it's understanding of harmony and theory is the true instrument. However this absolutely dangerous advice if you are pursuing a career as a true fine art musical virtuoso to perform the most challenging concert music ever created. That you absolutely need a teacher for and there is no question about it. If an amature tries to learn the famous Liszt sonata unless he is one of 10 true prodigies to ever exist or he has a true master teacher then he will undoubtedly damage and scorn his body and ability to play. (Read Harold Taylor - the pianists talent)