ESPN's Top 100 MLB Players of All Time is TERRIBLE

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I know this video isn't of the highest quality, but I wanted to bring up a few of my problems with ESPN as a baseball and sports fan in general. Also, let me know what y'all thought about the list, there's so many more disagreeable rankings that I didn't even get to.

[@SameDifferences]

ESPN hasn't cared about baseball in a very long time. It was so cool as a kid to watch baseball tonight and learn. Over the years baseball has just become an after thought for ESPN covering Tom Brady/Lebron James/and a few others 24/7.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I miss John Miller and Joe Morgan on Sunday night baseball so much

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

I can’t even remember the last time I actually sat down and watched ESPN except to watch a game tbh

[@AndThatsBaseball]

If you check out Tree’s video, it’s kind of about how they’re stuck. They gotta pay exorbitant amount of money for broadcasting rights cuz it’s the only thing that gets them great viewership

[@chrisweidner4768]

Yep. Jeter ahead of Pujols is embarrassing. Even the Yankees would agree.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

As a Yankees fan and a huge Jeter fan and defender, even I understand how ridiculous that is

[@tedharrington5432]

Cannot wait for the "The All-Sandy Koufax Team: Players who dominated most during their peak years" video!

[@AndThatsBaseball]

This is a good idea, I may do this sometime down the road. Set a cap on innings pitched and plate appearances and see who’s the best in limited time

[@tedharrington5432]

@@AndThatsBaseball Great! Who knows, maybe J.R. Richard might make another appearance. For one great season only and making an impact on the game, Mark "The Bird" Fidrych would be my candidate.

[@syracusealumnus79]

Passan and I were both editors at The Daily Orange when we were undergrads at Syracuse in the early 00's. It never mattered to him if he was on the women's volleyball beat or covering SU baskeball through March Madness, he truly enjoyed telling a good story. Glad he's doing well, but he's had the same haircut for 23 years now. Maybe try something new?

[@benjamindillard2391]

ESPN knows nothing about any sport outside of football and basketball.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Great video! To me the gap between Pedro and Randy is a little high. You can also tell with a bunch of players they did the classic move of placing them right next to one another simply because they’re perceived to have done the same thing. Literally Ichiro, Gwynn, Boggs, Brett are all one after another. Looks like some lazy voting

[@AndThatsBaseball]

That's a good point, didn't even consider that

[@checoPH]

I agree with you, this list is just stupid. PLAYERS LIKE PUJOLS AND ADRIAN BELTRE TWO FUTURE DESERVE TO BE IN THE TOP. They’re 2 future hall of famer.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I couldn’t believe Beltre was so low. They have defensive guys like Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith much higher even tho Beltre was an excellent fielder and could also hit much better than those two.

[@yovannyestevez4893]

Hello everyone.there are players on that list who cannot above. Albert pujols.manny Ramirez. Barry bonds. Miguel Cabrera.those players that I mentioned to you. They are among the top 20 players in MLB history.Numbers by Numbers.above many who are first on that list.don’t fool yourself. be fair..

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Albert is definitely top 20 it’s unbelievable how low they put him

[@nomorefielders]

Corey Seager is the left handed Cal Ripken Jr

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Buster “never been wrong” Olney with another domer

[@E_xe2]

The fact Albert isnt even top 10

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I can understand if he was just outside the top 10 but putting him 30 is just ridiculous

[@E_xe2]

@@AndThatsBaseball he should be at the same level as Mike trout, or around it

[@AndThatsBaseball]

@@E_xe2 I think he should be higher than Trout, at least for now. His first 10 years were even better than Trout's

[@BaseballAF]

Adrian Beltre appreciation is a must. deGrom I think deserved to be on the list, but I'm a tad biased.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

If Harper's on here partially because of what he's done so far, deGrom probably should be too

[@damonke79]

deGrom hasn't done nearly enough yet. Harper hasn't done enough yet and Trout at 15 is laughable. Recency bias at its finest

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I don't think it's necessarily recency bias as much as it is respecting his peak. I personally wouldn't put either of them in my top 100, but if we're ranking everyone by their peak, deGrom is definitely up there. This speaks to the whole issue of the list itself, everyone has a different definition of "greatness"

[@AndThatsBaseball]

'Them' being Harper and deGrom

[@damonke79]

@@AndThatsBaseball it's peak AND longevity. You think deGrom is already with Verlander and Scherzer and Kershaw? Absolutely not. deGrom needs to do A LOT more to be in the same discussion as those three.

[@jamespinette9403]

Great video. Agreed with pretty much every player adjustment that you suggested. Pujols at 30 is a joke, imo in the top 15 area….

[@ndalby5178]

the only thing i needed to know when i saw the list was MIKE TROUT WAS ALREADY number 15 ALL TIME. This was over 2 years ago and I thought it was unfair because the guy has not had a chance to finish his career and it is ridiculous to place Trout from rookie to end of 2021 season as a better player than ALEX RODRIGUEZ???? FACE PALLLLMMMMM

[@Susbus69]

Absolutely terrible, the worst list ever. Personally I’d have Bonds then Hank and then Willie mays. Because babe Ruth played against plumbers

[@AndThatsBaseball]

What about Ted Williams?

[@Susbus69]

@@AndThatsBaseball I mean Hank Aaron and Willie Mays are well….

[@GentrovoKolyova]

Solid content. Nice video.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[@GentrovoKolyova]

@@AndThatsBaseball Have you read Joe Posnanski’s The Baseball 100? It’s a much better list.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I haven’t, but I’ll take a look

[@ianreed8640]

It's criminal that more people haven't seen this video

[@carlosvalenzuela9144]

I wanna see And That's Baseball Top 100 List! someone that actually knows

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Nah, that’s too hard. I’m gonna sit back here and criticize other people’s without leaving myself open to criticism 😎

[@Gemnist98]

I don’t really care either way about these lists. They’re going to be subjective no matter how you look at it, so I don’t let it bother me as much. I have my problems with ESPN, for sure, but this is just too inoffensive to be worth my time.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

That’s completely reasonable

[@jaimelannister1797]

the worst part of this list is that Jeff Bagwell isn't even on it!

[@smartbaseballyt]

Hey, I was wondering if you, baseball af, retro baseball, no more fielders, and me could make a free fantasy baseball league and make videos about how we are doing compared to each other? Just an idea but I wanted your opinion

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I’ve never been a huge fantasy baseball guy, tried to do it with my friends a bunch of years but it always gets stale for me after a couple weeks

[@smartbaseballyt]

@@AndThatsBaseball 👍 so no?

[@AndThatsBaseball]

@@smartbaseballyt nah, sorry man

[@smartbaseballyt]

@@AndThatsBaseball that’s fine?

[@archstanton4365]

What's your issue with Breitbart?

[@MikeRBurch]

ESPN makes no sense. Here are some suggestions based on WAR per 162 games: David Ortiz (3.27): not close to the top 100; replace with Jeff Bagwell (6.04) Dave Winfield (3.50): not even close; replace with Bert Blyleven (95 WAR) Ichiro Suzuki (3.62): replace with Roger Connor (6.84) Willie Stargell (3.94): replace with Al Simmons (5.08) or Harry Heilmann Derek Jeter: (4.2) way too high; poor defense; played forever to accumulate counting stats; not top 100; replace with Arky Vaughan (7.00) Roberto Alomar (4.57): replace with Reggie Smith (5.27) Vladimir Guerrero Sr. (4.48): replace with Joey Votto (5.45) Miguel Cabrera: not top 100 per WAR or WAR/162 or just ordinary vision, replace with Johnny Mize (6.10) These are recommendations based on career WAR: Juan Marichal (63 WAR): replace with Tom Glavine (81 WAR) Willie McCovey (65 WAR): replace with Ferguson Jenkins (84 WAR) Manny Ramirez (69 WAR): replace with Gaylord Perry (90 WAR)

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I personally don’t agree with using only WAR, I don’t feel like it’s a holistic enough view of these players. Someone like Ichiro was amazing for his prime seasons but just played forever, so his WAR per 162 decreases, and I don’t think it’s fair to penalize him for playing for a long time into his 40s. Guys like Ortiz, Stargell, Jeter, and Ramirez are penalized by WAR for their defense, but they bring an intangible value by being intimidating presences in their lineups. I delve into this in my Prince Fielder/Miguel Cabrera video.

[@MikeRBurch]

@@AndThatsBaseball I don't think not being able to play defense or run is compensated by an intangible factor, especially when other players hit just as well, or better, and ran and played defense MUCH better. Like it or not, that is what WAR tells us. A great overall game is better than being good at just one thing, or two. Ortiz, Stargell, McCovey, Killebrew, Ramirez, Thome, and Cabrera are simply not as good as comparable hitters who could run and play defense. WAR reveals that. If you disagree, that is your choice, but I think others will question your understanding of the game. Mike Trout isn't just a better hitter, but he's all-time elite at stolen base percentage, and he's an excellent defensive player if not quite Gold Glove level. That's why his WAR/162 is second only to Babe Ruth. WAR actually makes a lot of sense if we consider the entire game and not just hitting for power.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Willie McCovey was the most feared hitter in the game for over a decade, providing protection in the lineup for other hitters like Willie Mays. That’s not quantified into WAR. There are so few hitters at that level (~60% higher than league average) who are also complete players. The few who are, like Mays or Trout, end up at the top of the list. I’m not disputing what WAR means, but I don’t think that should be the only way we consider greatness, especially when we have two different widely used formulas for the stat that produce different results. I also think it’s ridiculous to weigh defense so heavily in a historical sense when the only measure of defense we have for 20th century players is total zone, which isn’t considered at all anymore.

[@MikeRBurch]

@@AndThatsBaseball I'm not sure that it makes sense to ignore bad defense today because we can't measure it accurately yesterday. We know that McCovey was slow on the bases. We know he wasn't a plus defender. And that's why his WAR is low compared to his offense. McCovey is 144th in WAR. Ron Santo, for instance, is much higher in WAR than McCovey because he hit a lot closer to McCovey than McCovey was close to Santo's defensive value. WAR is correct -- not perfect, but correct -- in how it values hitting, defense and base-running. Players like Reggie Smith and Chase Utley are tied with McCovey in WAR despite playing 5 and 6 fewer years, respectively. Richie Ashburn is just a tick behind and played 7 fewer years. The big sluggers have sexier hitting numbers, but someone who hits close to them and vastly outdoes them in other areas of the game is more valuable. To have McCovey in the top 100 but not Ron Santo or Jeff Bagwell makes no sense to me. WAR/162 tells us that David Ortiz was nowhere close to a top 100 player, he just racked up impressive counting stats by playing a long time. Ditto for Derek Jeter.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Your WAR/162 argument is especially flawed. Derek Jeter, by your logic, would be considered a better player if he retired 5 years earlier because his value per game played would be better for his career. We have ways to evaluate peak performance like JAWS, WAR7, etc. And I’m not saying to ignore bad defense, but I’m arguing that WAR overvalues defense for older players considering that we don’t even use Total Zone anymore and it’s generally considered less accurate than DRS, which wasn’t invented until like 20 years ago.

[@YOUNGPADAWON]

You can’t say “we’ll I’m there day they didn’t do that or this” doesn’t matter it’s what the game was just because Ruth was a unicorn and ate beer & hot dogs in middle of games doesn’t mean there were players who didn’t try taking care of there body

[@stujohn6569]

Imagine if Beltre never had those mediocre 5 seasons in Seattle. Probably would’ve finished his career as the best 3B ever.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

People were critical of Beltre's time in Seattle because his offense didn't line up with his walk year in LA, but he was about the same hitter as he was overall in LA and he became one of the best defenders in baseball. Plenty of worse contracts have been signed

[@NickyQuesne13]

I couldn't really care less about lists like these. Folks are always going to bias no matter what. I do want to give you props for using the music from the movie Major League during their streak montauge. Nice!

[@mitchgrams5789]

I think miguel cabrera should be higher i mean he won a triple crown

[@AndThatsBaseball]

He was the best hitter in the game for a good 4-5 years after Albert started declining, so that’s fair, but he also hasn’t done much in years because of injuries. I don’t think his placement was too bad but I see where you’re coming from.

[@keylens.6900]

Can’t stand ESPN anymore. The network has devolved into nothing but tabloid nonsense. Also minor nitpick, but Ty Cobb should’ve not been included in your list of racist ball players. Other than that, keep up the great videos!

[@gabrielvazquez1691]

ESPN reached a point with baseball that people decided to create MLB Network. That's all we need to know how ESPN is doing with baseball today. ESPN only talks about football and basketball and has forgotten the other sports.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Tbf there’s a network for every major sport

[@gabrielvazquez1691]

@@AndThatsBaseball yes, but NBA TV, NFL Network, and NHL Network ran along side ESPN like normal. It wasn't till ESPN started really making baseball tonight an after thought that baseball decided to also get their own place.

[@djbeezy]

To be fair, ESPN sucks at everything now.

[@winstonkostrzewa1585]

ESPN sucks. MLB Network forever

[@BlueCollar-218]

Bonds is a cheater. He does not deserve to even be mentioned.

[@JunkYardCardGuy]

It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses the WAR stats to base a judgement about a player If Bryce Harper ends up paralyzed, and can no longer play, what would happen if he gets replaced by a .330 career hitter who strokes 3000 hits and 500 HR? WAR CAN'T BE calculated correctly, unless you KNOW the FUTURE stats of the guy replacing him.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

You just don't understand how WAR works. Besides, someone who's that good is gonna end up in the lineup whether or not Harper is healthy. Some light reading: www.mlb.com/glossary/advanced-stats/wins-above-replacement

[@JunkYardCardGuy]

@@AndThatsBaseball the most famous example, of course, is Wally Pipp...however, we've seen it happen enough to give me pause...Julio Franco (not HOF of course) being replaced by Rafael Palmeiro, Glenn Davis (Hall of pretty damn good) replaced by Jeff Bagwell were both considered "emergency" replacements by teams whose big stars just....crumbled. Jay Buhner (Hall of really damn good) replaced by some Japanese rookie no one had heard of (until a throw from right), Andre Dawson replaced by Sammy Sosa, Terry Pendleton (also Hall of pretty damn good) replaced by Chipper Jones. Jones was thought to be a decent glove, and above average hitter, but Pendleton was an absolute killer...even Rafael Palmeiro was later replaced by Jim Thome...I agree that there's a need to fully calculate a player's complete worth, and I hope you or someone else can come up with it...but until WAR can at least be calculated the same way, by ALL 30 teams, its actual value just isn't credible.

[@JunkYardCardGuy]

@@AndThatsBaseball Lol....and, i absolutely DO know how WAR, and its fellow sabremetrics work, and how they're applied.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

@@JunkYardCardGuy So you think Wally Pipp is worth -80 WAR because he was replaced by Lou Gehrig? That's not how the stat works

[@nestoryo1]

1 & 2 is Ruth and Bonds. Williams at 4 behind Mays.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

That’s fair

[@winstonkostrzewa1585]

Most sensible one I’ve seen in the comments so far. I disagree mildly but it’s still a good list

[@johnjohnsonjohn]

Owar has a defensive adjustment, use rbat

[@JunkYardCardGuy]

Something Alomar DID do better than Beltre....bat .500 across 2 consecutive World Series titles.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Batted .200 in 1992 and had a negative cWPA in 1993 I’m not moved

[@WallStreet06]

ESPN is that still on?

[@charliebaldanza7691]

Everyone hates alex but the guy is easily top 10

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I do think he deserves to be penalized because of the PED suspension and off the field distraction that he was, but if we’re going purely off of the numbers, he’s probably up there

[@adrianmcardle85]

4:51 urinatingtree

[@Bathorypriest]

Lmaoooo, oh boy.... you new age fans.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Yeah I don’t actually watch the games I monitor an excel spreadsheet with numbers instead

[@darnellpowell6212]

You should see espns top college football teams of all time lol it was laughable !

[@dvon1097]

Barry Bonds is the best baseball player who ever lived and its not close

[@djbeezy]

I can name 50 that are better and it's not even close.

[@DaileyShorts]

​@@djbeezyI can add 50 more to your list of 50 and it's not even close

[@maxblackcat]

Getting woke gets an unsub.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

❄️❄️

[@johnshriver9004]

What's wrong with Breitbart? You watch CNN buddy? You vote for Biden? I would be damn sure to not be spouting my political opinions if I were you.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Breitbart is fake news that radicalizes idiots like yourself. And yeah I watch cnn 12 hours a day to form my political opinion. I’m a drone for the Democratic establishment. Also, I’ll talk about whatever the hell I want on my own channel.