Etching with muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide

[@Enigma758]

I found out about this technique a few years ago. Stopped using Ferric Chloride and never looked back. Just watched your video as a refresher as I need to etch some boards again. I've seen claims that the etchant can be reused, but like you say, that's never worked for me. Thanks!

[@flash001USA]

This is the only way to fly. I don't have to worry that I cannot find any Ferric Chloride because all of the Radio Shacks are closed nor do I have to special order anything with this method. I can go to Wal-Mart and get everything I need to etch circuit boards including plastic sandwich tubs for the process.

[@darrellhale3880]

This started as a fairly short post, but then it kept growing. I think I will keep a local copy for myself as a personal summary/reference :) I have started using the Cupric Chloride etchant method, and definitely like it over Ferric Chloride for a number of reasons. The main one is that Cupric Chloride can be regenerated, which eliminates the need to dispose of "used" etchant. When I started looking into using this method, there were a variety of recipes proposing ways to create and use this type of etchant. Most would admit they were not totally sure of what they were doing. The folks who wanted to etch boards were not clear on the chemistry, and the folks who understood the chemistry did not address any of the practical concerns related to actually using it to etch boards, maintain a good working solution over time, etc. I saw a number of guides where a stable batch of Cupric Cloride solution was made before any boards were ever etched, which usually involved adding specially oxidized copper (usually through an initial heating) to the bath. This approach generally appeared to be from folks leaning towards the chemist side of things for making up their solution. Others would just prepare a basic Nuriatic Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide bath, and then drop a copper board straight in to start an etch going. This approach leans towards the "lets get it done" folks. The good news is that both approaches work. It just seems to me that since some details of each approach as a bit different along the way to a final Cupric Chloride bath, some confusion arises regarding the different expectations and observations as seen by each approach. In both cases, the ratios of the chemicals used can apparently vary a lot and still provide good results. I think it is good to have a good, basic understanding of the chemical "players" in this etching process without getting lost in the weeds of many small details. There seems to me to be three main phases to how this works, and how things change from one phase to the next seems to be where the most of the confusion comes up. So, lets start with the players, listed by their common names and (chemical composition): Muriatic Acid (HCl) Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) Water (H2O) Oxygen, in gas form (O2) and the tricky bit, which is copper and its multiple forms: Copper (Cu) Copper II Chloride (CuCl2) Copper I Chloride (CuCl) The first phase is the initially clear solution shown on this video. It is a mix of Muriatic Acid, Hydrogen Peroxide, and Water. But wait, I didn't add any water! Well, yes you did, as water is actually the main ingredient in both Muriatic Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide. I believe the version of Muriatic Acid shown contains less then 25% of (HCl), so it is about 75% water. And 3% Hydrogen Peroxide means that about of 87% of that bottle is also water. So your initial bath is probably somewhere in the area of 75% to 80% water right from the start. When solid Copper is added to the Muriatic Acid, it will want to combine to form Copper (II) Chloride, but it needs Oxygen to do so. If it was only Copper and Acid, the Oxygen would have come from the air. Even with a fish tank air bubbler, it would apparently would take a looong time for this reaction to happen. I think thus is why some people would combine just HCl Acid and Copper Wire and set it aside for a few days until the copper finally dissolved. By adding some Hydrogen Peroxide at the start, a ready source of concentrated Oxygen is available to kick off this initial reaction, with a byproduct of a minute amount of extra water being generated. This is what the first chemical reaction formula looks like: Cu + 2 HCl + H2O2 -> CuCl2 + 2H2O In English, this is read as: One atom of Copper (Cu) plus Two molecules of Muriatic Acid (2 HCl) plus One molecule of Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) will combine and turn into One molecule of Copper II Chloride (CuCl2) plus Two molecules of Water (2H2O) Note that all of the hydrogen peroxide will eventually be used up in this first step since it is such a small amount (< 3%), but it was enough to quickly kick off this initial phase of creating a Cupric Chloride bath. The Copper II Chloride that was created is what is what gives the bath it's emerald green color. So as time moves on and the Hydrogen Peroxide disappears to be replaced with Copper II Chloride, what happens? Well this is the start of phase two. The Copper II Chloride now continues as the active Copper etching process. This is what the second chemical reaction formula looks like: CuCl2 + Cu -> 2 CuCl In English, this new reaction reads as: One molecule of Copper II Chloride (CuCl2) plus One atom of Copper (Cu) will combine and turn into Two molecules of Copper I Chloride (CuCl) So, we now have the emerald colored liquid form of Copper II Chloride changing into a dark-brown/blackish liquid form of Copper I Chloride, which eats up another solid Copper atom from the PCB in the process. So once again time moves on, and now all of the Copper II Chloride is used up. The etching solution is no longer dissolving the solid Copper off the PCB, and the bath looks dark and ugly. We have entered phase three. So what happens now? This is where the magic of more Oxygen comes in to save the day, and is why the bath can be regenerated to a bright green color. The final chemical reaction formula looks like: 2 CuCl + 2 HCl + O -> 2 CuCl2 + H2O In English, this final reaction is: Two molecules of Copper I Chloride (CuCl) plus Two molecules of Muriatic Acid (2 HCl) plus One atom of Oxygen (O) will combine and turn into Two molecules of Copper II Chloride (CuCl2) plus One molecule of Water (H2O) Whoa, by adding some Oxygen and using up some of the extra Muriatic Acid still floating around, the phase three non-etching Copper I Chloride has reverted back into the etchable Copper II Chloride found in phase two. The bath is back to where it is ready to "eat up" more solid copper! The price to be paid with this last step is that some of the acid is converted to water, never to return again. So this is why you will see various instructions mention that you will need to occasionally toss in an extra bit of acid (like a bottle cap full or two) if the light green bath does not seem to be returning after it is exposed to air. The minor points that gets into the weeds (and which I really don't worry about to much) is how to manage the "correct" theoretical balance of copper (I and II) chloride, acid, and water in the bath. You could do a titration of the bath to determine the exact proportions of chemicals, and based on that info, re-balance the bath by adding exactly the right amount of what is missing (usually acid). Probably a good idea to run this test often in a professional production line, but not so necessary for hobby-level use. In my opinion, it seems that everything is basically OK if the solution can return to being a light green after it gets oxygen since that indicates there is still enough acid in the bath. The amount of water seems to basically take care of itself. While some water will be lost through evaporation, more water is added when the water-diluted acid is added, and then again when the acid is converted into water by the chemical reaction of phase three. You would probably only add more Hydrogen Peroxide if need to etch a board and you don't have the time to wait for the bath to regenerate itself using air/oxygen. If the bath seems to be getting too watery or the volume is growing to large for your storage container as acid and/or peroxide is being added, just let the solution sit in an open container so that some of the water can evaporate out. flash001USA, I think the issue you are having about the solution loosing its "kick" is three fold. First, you are probably used to the more aggressive nature of the clear acid/peroxide bath compared to after it turns green. Second, if you are storing the solution is a SEALED container, it will never get the extra oxygen it needs to rejuvenate itself. Third, you might not be creating a large enough liquid bath (ie: need more fluid ounces) to handle all of the copper to be etched from a larger board or multiple smaller boards etched back-to-back. You will need to maintain enough of the light green etchant to finish any PCB currently being etched. If the bath is too brown to start with, it either needs more time to regenerate itself before etching another board, add a bit more acid if it is not regenerating, or make the bath more reactive (ie: more like phase one than phase two) by adding extra peroxide and/or acid before adding the next board. I have been using my etching solution in a crock pot of the type that has a heater in a sheet metal outer shell that holds a removable inner ceramic pot. I put the outer shell inside an insulated plastic ice chest so if the crock pot spills or leaks, the ice chest will contain the liquid. Obviously neither the crock pot or ice chest should ever be used with food again. I have spray painted and labeled both as a reminder to myself _and others_ that neither item is safe for food use. Once the solution is warm in the crock pot, it is important to use it in a well ventilated area. Avoid getting directly above the pot as it becomes easy to get a whiff of some nasty fumes that is not food for you. When I was doing etching at 40 degrees in the garage, the warm solution really likes to stream/evaporate, so chemically irritating ones lungs is very easy to do. When not etching, I keep my solution in a largish clear plastic container (that started out as a bulk-size pretzel container) which is also kept in the ice cooler after taking the crock pot out. I don't keep the solution in or near the crock pot, as long term exposure to the evaporating fumes will likely corrode the metal parts of the crock pot. The metal edge of the glass lid is already turning funky colors where liquid has splashed on it. I then oxygenate the stored bath liquid using an air bubbler stone connected to a _small_ aquarium air pump. You don't need to move much air, as pumping lots of air into the solution only causes the liquid to foam and splatter excessively. I actually needed to plug the air pump into a lamp dimmer to I could reduce the air flow to an acceptable amount. After etching, I generally run the air pump/bubbler for a few days. Once the solution is emerald green again, the pump can be shut off as continuing to add air has no additional effect on the solution. I might be able to shut the pump off after a few hours, but it would require me to check the color more often. Since I mainly etch on a weekend, I let the pump run to about mid-week, and then shut the pump down if the color is good since the bath is then ready for more etching on the following weekend. After the pump is shut off (or a non-bubbled solution has sat around long enough to absorb oxygen from the air on its own) the etchant container can be sealed and the solution should remain ready for future use. Eventually I want to replace the crock pot with a more efficient thin, wide, and tall vertical etching chamber that can hold larger boards without needing an excessive volume of liquid to fill the tank, but that is for the future. I also want to use the air pump to add agitation bubbles in the etch tank, but the bubbles need to be evenly spaced to produce even PCB etching. When I tried the bubbler stone in the crock pot, the section of the board getting hit with bubbles etched fairly quickly, but the "still liquid" sections went much slower. The result was undercut/over etched traces in the bubbled areas, and under etched almost everywhere else. I also go for a fairly warm bath, not not really hot. When warm, I can rub areas the slower etching areas lightly with a gloved finger to help remove the copper faster, as I don't want to keep the finished areas in the bath any longer than necessary. When the bath is too hot, the fast areas are more likely to be over etched, and the board becomes too hot to the touch to handle easily. I am still using the first batch of etchant I made, so I cannot cannot comment on how much faster a clear bath is over a light green one is, as I have little experience with the clear/fresh solution. But with a light green bath, I have etched most of the copper off of a double-sided board the size you are showing anywhere from 25 to 40 minutes. Given that I was working in cold weather and the bath started to cool down once the glass crock pot lid was removed, the varying bath temperature meant that I had to keep an eye on each as they etched, as the time per board was only a guideline, not a rule. The following link seems to have the best summary of this process I have found in one place, and is in the basis of the chemical description above: www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/?ALLSTEPS This next link is a summary for both cupric and ferric solutions along with some disposal comments. Note that the copper ions in cupric chloride is very toxic to fish (and I would not want to drink it myself). So when solution disposal is needed, it comes down to changing the copper from unstable liquid form into a more stable solid form. That solid can then be disposed of with less worry that it will run off into the environment and cause problems. But since the solution should last "forever" (barring contamination by other stuff, needing to get rid of the solution once and for all, etc.) disposal should rarely be needed. blog.adafruit.com/2009/01/25/the-chemistry-of-home-etched-pcbs/

[@jundar73]

Thank you so much for sharing such so useful information!

[@oldBFshred]

I have used this "basic" method before with fairly good results but not with the hot water trick. I now have tried with hot water and was impressed at how it sped up the process. Good info! Thanks!

[@flash001USA]

I've used the hot water trick with the standard ferric chloride for years and I thought I would try it with this mixture and it worked well enough to mention it in this video. I'll never go back to ferric chloride after finding this.

[@charleseharrison8979]

This was a very helpful video. I have to build a linear power supply for my electronics class that included designing the circuit and etching my PCB. I used these instructions and etched my PCB yesterday. It was flawless. I couldn't have had better instructions. THANK YOU!! I have since shared your video with some of the other students in class.

[@flash001USA]

Charles thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm glad that it worked for you. I've done a dozen boards with this method and I'll never go back to using ferric chloride again.

[@charleseharrison8979]

This class has piqued an interest that I didn't know that I had. After this class is over, I am just trying to decide what to build next. Thanks again!!

[@flash001USA]

Thanks for that info. I'm using this for basic circuit board work and it works really well for that. I have been prototyping and etching boards for 35+ years whether it was for a personal build or a paid job and even though this is a short lived etchant solution I couldn't be more happier with it's etching properties compared to Ferric chloride. The trick is to mix it and use it immediately plus a little goes a long way too if you mix it only as you need it.

[@flash001USA]

The iron on stuff works good to as long as you have a solid contact with the iron on traces. I've done etched boards every way imaginable including making boards with a side order of fries and a coke and I will NEVER go back to using ferric chloride! That's how happy I am with using the muriatic acid / hydrogen peroxide mix.

[@haseebabdul7157]

Amazing Results, Never seen copper getting etched at this pace.

[@flash001USA]

After using this process I will NEVER use ferric chloride ever again. Spill a few drops of that stuff and your surface is pretty much permanently stained orange. Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide can be cleaned up without issues if some of it splashes onto a surface. The trick to using this is to mix it and immediately use it. The downfall is you cannot really store it like ferric chloride but you can store the muriatic acid for years and the hydrogen peroxide is very common so you can find it anywhere whenever you need to etch a board. The results using the muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide outweigh the ferric chloride hands down!

[@robertsatterthwaite8958]

I just tried your method and it worked great. Muratic acid and hydrogen peroxide are dirt cheep compaired to ferric chloride and so much easer to get locally. thanks for the video

[@flash001USA]

+Robert Satterthwaite Hey no problem. When I learned about this I knew I had to make a video and share this with others. This is leaps and bounds over using ferric chloride.

[@page76metalcraft19]

Without iron this is not ferric chloride

[@kurchak]

You are right about doing the H2O2 first. Good rule of thumb is to NEVER add something TO a powerful acid, instead, slowly add the acid TO the weaker, less reactive liquid. For example, dont add a drop of water to a pool of acid. Instead, add a drop of acid to the water.

[@nrmdm]

. K "Instead, add a drop of acid to the water." I'll do my best to memorize that, but could you please explain why that matters?

[@PhantomWorksStudios]

I just tried it again today, except this time I used sign grade vinyl as I always have plenty of that stuff laying around as scraps and it worked out great this time. I used some small PCB with some vinyl the I places on it, I then used a ruler to cut out thin lines on it and some other things as well and the etch didn't even touch the vinyl parts. A couple of places I didn't squeegee it down enough and it tried to etched in those areas. Everything else worked really good though. Again thank you

[@caltick]

Nice, I guess the only thing missing is how do deal with battery life in the end times. You'll have power for a couple years, which might be enough. Nice video on Hcl / h2o2 etching

[@flash001USA]

Thanks for the reply. You are correct about neutralizing the mixture with baking soda. My main concern is the possible environmental issues with the suspended copper in the mixture.

[@lukeFugate]

Great job Flash very informative video. You have a lot of creativity, from the enclosure to the lightbulb idea. I've heard of this etching method but never tried it, thanks for uploading.

[@flash001USA]

PhantomWorksStudios I have had nothing but bad luck with sharpie pens even when I use ferric chloride. I always wound up with pits in the traces. There is something different in the standard sharpie ink compared to a sharpie that's made to etch with so keep that in mind. At this point I only use photosensitive boards and the results are always great.

[@Sanguivore]

Love the emphasis on safety, and they very clear instructions! Thank you, my friend. By chance could this also be used to make a dunk tank for making a Damascus-style blade on a sword?

[@PhantomWorksStudios]

I also just tried this today, but not exactly as he has with the heat and all. I fallowed another on on instructables and when I put my small tester board in, it did take off after the first min, but not only did it etch away at the copper, it also went after my sharpie marker as well and etched through that as well. I used 1 cup Proxide and 1/2 cup muritc acid. The solution did turn green and all, but was it suppose to brake down the marker and etch through that as well?

[@flash001USA]

No problem. When I found this I was amazed just how well this stuff etched so I felt that I had to share it with others.

[@mdmuntasiralam774]

Hi, thank you for such a wonderful video. Is it two parts of Hydrogen peroxide to one part Muriatic acid, right? not the other way?

[@flash001USA]

@@mdmuntasiralam774 Yes. 2 parts hydrogen peroxide to 1 part muriatic acid.

[@mdmuntasiralam774]

Thanks mate!

[@flash001USA]

@@mdmuntasiralam774 Yes Sir... You're welcome. Do me a favor and let me know if this works and if so, how well it works. I have had many people in the past ask this same question you are asking. Thanks.

[@mdmuntasiralam774]

Sure. I will let you know. Thank you.

[@47burke]

Got a batch cooking now and yesterdays batch worked just fine, just a few foil's left on some boards. You can use anything stainless steel doesn't have to be a knife, this works really well when you are refining silver contacts! hope this helps.

[@vesperhbtmotor]

Great video thank you for making it. I would recommend using a separate tank for dunking the finished board into water and baking soda also use the leftover mix to kill the acid mix after use before disposal and also safety

[@flash001USA]

People will tell you that it can be reused and I've tried to refresh it but it just doesn't work. If you mix up a batch and put away for later usage it won't work either. You can neutralize it by adding baking soda to it for safe disposal. The etching solution works great if you mix it and immediately us it. I like it because it's fast and it etches very well with common chemicals you can find anywhere. Ferric chloride can only be found at Radio Shack or you have to order it online.

[@NeightUp]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, as this is now years old, but you CAN reuse the green solution after the first etch. It is MUCH slower, but it does work. I'm doing my 6th or 7th etch in a solution I made days ago. The green in the solution has gotten so concentrated, it looks nearly black. I have read that you can even refresh the solution with more HCL and some air bubbled through using a fish tank bubbler. Haven't tried it yet, but that is what I read when I first found this method.

[@flash001USA]

Hey thanks for the feedback. I've never had any luck reusing the mixture. I also tried an experiment where I made up a double batch and I split it in half and used the 1st half to etch a bunch of boards then I stored the 2nd half of the unused batch in a container out from any light sources. The second batch failed to work after only 8 hours of storage even though it was placed in a cool dark place. I've tried every idea people have presented with using the bubbler and/or adding more Hydrogen Peroxide or even muriatic acid. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I discovered this mix is that this stuff is somewhat reactive and when you use it right after mixing it, you will have the best etching you could ever ask for but once it sits up whether it has been used or not the solution looses it's ability to etch correctly. You're correct that it will still eat the copper but the issue with a slow etch is the solution has the tendency to find micro holes in the protective layer that you don't want etched and what you wind up with is a board with a bunch of tiny pinholes etched through the job where you didn't want the copper removed.

[@NeightUp]

flash001USA To be fair, I've only been using this method for a couple days, because I can't seem to find my bottle of ferric chloride, and I am too impatient to wait for delivery :P I've mixed two batches so far, using myriatic acid (30% HCL) and 3% Hydrogen peroxide. The first one I used to make about three or four small boards, and then spilled it all over the floor (that was an unpleasant mess to clean....). The second batch has lasted me three days so far, has slowed down quite a bit, but it does work still, and has had quite of bit of copper ran through it, as I am playing with both PCB making and trying to make some nice etched copper plates for things. I haven't tried to refresh the mix yet, so no idea how that will go. I imagine it is getting to be time though, as the mix is getting rather dark. I hadn't considered, or noticed (yet) any problems with holes, but that is something I will certainly keep an eye out for! I'm using regular adhesive vinyl for my etch mask, and it seems to work really really well. Thanks for the information about the micro holes, I wasn't aware that could be a problem during a slow etch.

[@flash001USA]

This method really does work quite well. I've been meaning to make a video on this topic for a while now.

[@johnlathrop123]

Thank you! I'm looking at doing my very first etching this weekend. I've been looking at a lot of vids and this is the best so far on thi subject.

[@flash001USA]

The problem with selling stuff like this isn't only cheap Chinese competition but they also knock-off's of high ended units that they can sell for $99 bucks. I actually have one and it does work good Keep in mind that I am building these by hand so there is a lot of time in this so this was just a fun project for me.

[@TecKnowFreak]

I heard of this way yrs ago from a frd of mine that as done boards for yrs but i never have made my own due to i just never got into it all. Always wanted to. You should make that unit and sell them! I know a place that i bet would take and buy the unit they work with the stable long lasting stuff! Very cool vid very good info!

[@andrewholmes8337]

Do you sell your units were off grid and that's a handy charge control . We also have old 1920s 1930s Delco light plants and are looking for control units I'm looking in to Arduino to do control but haven't got my head around the programming? Wood like to hear from you

[@brazilianambassadordale8223]

If you let the green solution dry a bit, you can pour muriatic acid back in and it will work again for etching. I creates (HCl)2CuCl2 which can dissolve copper. It is not as good, but it is economical.

[@flash001USA]

I've tried different things and none of them really worked well enough to revive it. Here is another interesting thing too. You cannot mix the solution up and put it away for later use because it loses it's punch. I have found that you need to use it within an hour tops right after you mix it. If you use it immediately after it is mixed it works great and it blows ferric chloride totally away. The stuff is so cheap to make that the cost and the quality of it's etching abilities outweighs it's short falls.

[@OfficeThug]

To clarify, the etching agents produced from the mixture are chlorine radicals (mono-atomic chlorine). These are extremely powerful but short-lived oxidizing agents; they combine together to form chlorine molecules (di-atomic chlorine) which is the chlorine gas you should be wary of that's evolved from the mixture. Although di-atomic chlorine is strongly oxidizing, it's still not strong enough to etch gold and other coin metals.

[@johnlathrop123]

What do you use to transfer the image to the copper clad? I've been using a laser printer to paper and ironing transfer to copper. It works ok but I often have to use an ink marker to fill in gaps, etc.

[@sebastianaramburo9186]

use a laminator, transfers are incredible. look around the internet for "laminator toner transfer" or something similar. there is a chinese model that is very cheap and does an outstanding job (it needs some moding though)

[@MegaKbyrne]

Nice boards. To reuse the solution regenerate with more of the hydrogen peroxide the regenerate with a fish tank bubbler set up of air pump, hose and air stone. According to my sources it will work.

[@flash001USA]

Hey first of all, thanks for the reply. I tried to regenerate with both hydrogen peroxide and a second time with the muriatic acid. I even tried to bubble it too. The acid was still active and it would sizzle if you dipped metal into it or if you neutralized it with baking soda but it would not rejuvenate. If you find someone first-hand that knows how to correctly rejuvenate this stuff please let me know because that would be great to reuse this stuff.

[@MegaKbyrne]

I read one persons version and all he did was add one or the other chemicals> I will try to find the answer for you and comment later on.

[@flash001USA]

I would love to find a way to extend this stuff. There's something that I did not mention in the video along with a bit of an inaccuracy too. Once you mix this stuff up you only have a few hours to use it. If you just place it in a container it loses it kick. There is something that I picked up on to. I think that all of the oxygen splits and leaves the solution because if you put an air tight lid on it the solution fizzes like a bottle of soda does when it's opened so I'm sure that the high concentration of oxygen plays into this somehow and I don't think that just bubbling the solution is the answer either but this idea may be valid. Use a bubbler DURING the SECOND etching run. That may be the key to reusing it.

[@MegaKbyrne]

Very Good. I am not pleased with etchant from the orient in white crystal form. Does not preform like it should. What do you know about transfer paper and laser printers. One batch from orient worked good and second batch is shiner and smears as it goes thru the HP printer. Wax paper also smears as it goes thru but I also have a refill cartrige in it. I need a source of quality paper every time. Got any Ideas? PS try putting a vent hole sometime in the container lid and see what happens to sealed results. Proper color of container and temperature of storage as experiments. Kevin

[@MegaKbyrne]

Found the info. Yahoo groups Home brew PCB boards Message # 33007. If you can't find let me know & I will duplicate message word for word Kevin

[@drvigg9083]

"Never add the muriatic acid first." Right on -- as we say, "Do as you oughta -- add acid to water."

[@flash001USA]

It's not as much of a reaction issue as it is a splashing or liquid displacement issue. It's safer that way and reduces splashing issues with the acid. I would rather have some water displacement over acid displacement any day of the week.

[@rolandbleitz8278]

I've done brass data plates in Ferric with no problem and use Krylon paint as the resist on the back. I suspend the plate upside down in the solution using masking tape attached to the sides of the tupperware. I etch to .003"-.005" deep and it takes about an hour in the solution. How fast will the Peroxide/Muratic mix take to etch Aluminum to .003--.005"??. Will paint work as a resist in this mix? Thanks guys---great tutorial

[@flash001USA]

To be honest I don't know. I've only etched circuit boards so you would have to try a sample etch and see how it turned out.

[@maitlandmoore6426]

I love it. I'm on board with what your thinking. Just as soon as I get off the couch Ccp virus

[@Tiyagi99]

The solution does not work after storing because H2O2 degrades into water over time, especially from UV light exposure and there are a lot of UV sources around us. So If you add some more hydrogen peroxide to it after storage it should work.

[@flash001USA]

But I won't even use that kind of power. I designed a low voltage lighting system a few years back that can run on 12 or 24 volts DC and each light consumes less than 6 watts each so I can illuminate every room in the house at the same time bright enough to read by on only 72 watts! I designed the system around small florescent lighting and not LED's so the light is natural. That leaves me 378 watts for a TV and other small comforts of home. The big stuff is ran from a generator.

[@nskmda]

It's a cool project, but I might suggest having a linked video with the project description and shorten this one to only demo etching itself. but thanks, anyway.

[@nskmda]

sorry, forgot to ask - how do u dispose of the toxic solution?

[@PhantomWorksStudios]

thats what I had a feeling of. I mean thats still not that bad I just know how to do it from now on. Just get the container close to the size of the pcb (usually I can find them at the $ store) and just mix enough of the solution to cover the bottom of the container and enough over the pcb like I guess a quarter of an inch over the top. From that point I should be able to move it around with that and it should do the job. I would just have to go on trial and error.Again thank you:)

[@flash001USA]

Thanks... Let me know how the job turns out.

[@jpviljoen1]

Thanks for a great video. How much baking soda is needed to neutralize the 3/4 cup acid mix you used in the video?

[@flash001USA]

That's a good question. I'm not sure. I live way out in the country so I pour it in my gravel driveway and the funny thing is the weeds thrive on this stuff! I was using it to kill weeds and it made no difference. It's toxic but it will break down to inert materials because everything in the mix is in nature to some extent or another.

[@Tricknologyinc]

flash001USA ["It's toxic but it will break down to inert materials because everything in the mix is in nature to some extent or another."] This is not a healthy attitude for chemical consumption. EVERYTHING man "makes" comes from nature and tons of it should never go back! I'm no chemist, but I am going to consult a chemistry professor as to how to handle disposal of EVERYTHING I plan to use. Remember! Your well is downstream from every square inch on your property! Encourage people who want to use chemistry of any kind to do solid research on what happens to their supplies and their children who are exposed to them, even from hundreds of yards away (example: drinking water!... Bathing... Breathing). THis stuff is NOT a cool new toy from HasBro... Don't be the president of HAZ-Bro! While the basic solutions may be fairly inert over time (speculating... I haven't researched this yet) I do know that concentrations of metals made available to the ground water isn't the best idea. Thank you for posting this. I was just watching a video on how to make your own Ferric Chloride and I've been trying to find the safest stuff to use for etching PCB's and artwork BEFORE I create a superfund site... I do NOT want a visit from the TOXIC AVENGER! ; ) Carry on. Don't get carried off! : ) PS. Nice fab work, and Great projects! This country needs people who are going to make their own jobs and to do that without destroying the planet, since there's so little being done to create jobs or take care of everyone left behind. This is a very patriotic endeavor, but it's only patriotic if it doesn't do harm. Everyone should do their homework and SHARE everything they find on safety and common sense. I've been trying to develop a business for decades and unfortunately, became disabled just a few years before the economy. Even a decade prior, it was a hard road to get by solely on a bootstrapped manufacturing enterprise. We need an intelligent balance of technology and nature, and a new attitude towards consumption which means we make things that LAST so we're not slaved to making garbage over and over just to pile in landfills. We need to learn the difference between a gluttonous "economy" and a HEALTHY ECONOMY! A healthy economy is economical in every way, and with the advantages of technology, we should all have plenty of time to spend with our families and get as much school as we need. This site is a great brick in the foundation of this country's healing. We've never truly known a healthy economy. Today, we have no choice!

[@PhantomWorksStudios]

What do you do with the stuff to make it etch again? On my end the solution lost its etching and no longer etches. What do I do to make it etch again? I read up that this is a major problem with this stuff. Thank you

[@pyramidblack]

thank you for the beautiful video. subscribed :)

[@WT2D-Michel]

Thank you for the video, what is this board for? Looks like some UHF booster.

[@flash001USA]

No this was control boards for a solar charger that could also accept a wind generator or other power source inputs to charge a battery bank with.

[@juliabear2322]

it's fantastic for etching bullet casings;)

[@mdmuntasiralam774]

Hi. Will this method for Brass sample as well? I was planning to do for some brass tubes.

[@flash001USA]

I'm not sure but you could try it on a test piece to see how well it etches.

[@mdmuntasiralam774]

Thanks mate! I will try.

[@PhantomWorksStudios]

Thank you for telling me this flash, i'll keep that in mind and I guess I'm going to use the laser printed method then as I can't get any of the photo resist at my local shop here. Thank you for replying

[@bobweiram6321]

No need to throw out the solution. You can refresh the solution by adding more hydrogen peroxide. Alternatively, you can throw in a scrap piece of iron and it turns into Ferric Chloride.

[@flash001USA]

Hey thanks for the feedback and the info. I have tried both of these suggestions with no results and when I found this method on the internet they mentioned the same thing too. I've also tried to add a bit more muriatic acid with no luck either.

[@markspc1]

Great show flash001USA I like your battery charger controller. As far as etching with muriatic acid and H2O2 isn't that the same as ferric chloride since ferric chloride is nothing more than muriatic acid and steel wool or iron nails ?

[@flash001USA]

Hey thanks for the reply. I'm not exactly sure what ferric chloride is chemically but I know the muriatic acid method works much better.

[@markspc1]

That is great to know that hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide works better than ferric chloride. In any case ferric chloride is a mixture of hydrochloric acid and iron (steel wool works great) and it turns into ferrous chloride solution (FeCl2). Let it oxidize for a week (or add 3% hydrogen peroxide for fast result) and it will turn into ferric chloride (2FeCl3). The only advantage is that if you dry ferric chloride it turn into crystals that are easier to store. Thank you for your informative video.

[@flair4crafts894]

I have been trying to etch cooper tubing that I cut and flatten into sheet for jewelry, however the etched image on the cooper is not very noticeable. Anybody has any suggestions?

[@flash001USA]

You get what you pay for and that's true and blue. I have looked at a shitload of controllers and it depends on how big you want your system. Some people have 20 golf cart or solar deep cycle batteries along with a shitload of panels and some people have portable emergency systems. I just want to be somewhere in between the two builds. I can easily pull 450 continuous watts from my batteries for 8 hours non stop and only go from 24 volts down to 23 volts... Cont:

[@neodiy]

How long is the overall of the time lapse?

[@flash001USA]

It's actually a pretty quick process. It takes only a few minutes to etch a board.

[@pedhojuswaroopa1066]

Sir plg which chemical use copper con apply nidil pushed plg help me sir

[@JCHaywire]

UTMOST Excellent video.

[@TecKnowFreak]

Yes and those DC lights run for so little compared to AC ones i Have DC led ones some i bought and some i made and one standard car battery will run them all for a whole day so you can see why i say get stuff on DC and need way way less power making stuff!

[@clarkso65]

Great video you got your self a subscriber!!!

[@stevencarranza164]

would this work if i wanted to etch an image onto small brass ingot?

[@flash001USA]

Honestly I don't know.

[@flash001USA]

Use it as soon as you make the mixture up. You will be surprised just how many boards you can do before the solution loses it's punch.

[@nnath472]

Does the concentration of muriatic acid matter? i have mine at 19% HCl do i have to add more part of it in this case?

[@flash001USA]

I'm not sure of the actual figures that you mentioned because what I use was purchased from the hardware store and I did not have to do anything but mix the muriatic acid with the hydrogen peroxide. If you're not sure just go to a hardware store or even Walmart and read the label on their jugs of muriatic acid and maybe it will mention what the concentration level is. Good luck.

[@camcoder7247]

You smart engineer

[@robertsandoval7943]

U have any junda if solar oower source for sake

[@flash001USA]

Sorry but I'm not sure what you are asking me.

[@chiutyler]

I know that hydrochloric acid by itself is neutralized by baking soda. My question is will baking soda neutralize this mixture as well?

[@flash001USA]

Yeah I think you're correct but the concern would be how to dispose of the mixture with the copper broken down in it?

[@chiutyler]

flash001USA yeah i figured thst it should be disposed of through thr proper channels. I was more worried about how to neutralize it in the case that it spill or got on the skin.

[@lorenzo42p]

from what I understand, the dissolved copper is toxic and more of a danger than the acid. touching a copper wire is harmless enough, but dissolving that wire in acid makes it possible to absorb into your skin.

[@samirpasic6836]

Can i etch steel with muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide ????

[@flash001USA]

Honestly I do not know. You could take a small piece of steel and try etching something on it to see if it would work for your project. If you do, please let me know if it works.

[@samirpasic6836]

@@flash001USA i will try and i will let you know!

[@flash001USA]

Yeah, that's not a bad point.

[@rmarsh9997]

I keep getting thrown onto etching everything but glass.Anyone know a chemical household diy to make etching solutions gor glass?

[@ireneanddavecomstock5763]

Amour glass has a mild solution for etching glass. It only does a surface etch. Local hobby stores have it. Amour etch all.

[@kairabimumun6109]

is it safe to etch my glass with it please answer

[@flash001USA]

I've only used it to etch copper clad boards with and the liquid is safe in a plastic bottle but I do not want to misinform you so you may want to experiment with a small piece of material in question.

[@Tricknologyinc]

Have you ever tried to etch aluminum foil for graphics or even cheap homemade PCB's? It makes great artwork on glass and plexi. I don't know if plexiglass is reactive with these etches though (muriatic & ferric chloride). Anyone know?

[@flash001USA]

I've never tried that. It sounds interesting enough.

[@Tricknologyinc]

I've found that aluminum takes solder fairly well, but I haven't tried the new lead free solders yet. I used to use aluminum foil for shielding and it soldered quite nicely. Aluminum has been used traditionally as a low cost alternative to copper conductors. In high impedance circuits, this should be of no consequence whatsoever, and in normal applications, a slightly heavier gauge should prove adequate. For art applications, laminating both the dull and shiny sides of Aluminum foil to the backside of glass, plexiglass, or thin clear plastic sheet of various gauges, should prove extremely interesting. Think of the possibilities of multicolor layers by etching, laminating another layer, and etching in a reverse print or for that matter a surface process in traditional layering, like multicolor silkscreen. Silkscreen would be a great compliment to the process as well. The craft stores still sell silkscreen kits. For PCBs, I'm not sure why I haven't run across silkscreen tutorials, since it's such a simple direct process once the screen is developed. It may not work well for the finest traces, but for most common applications with DIP ICs and discrete components, it should be ideal for runs from one at a time to massive runs.

[@Tricknologyinc]

I've also toyed with the idea, for a long time, of making my own PCB material from foil of either type, and laminating my own fiberglass backing. It wouldn't take long to lay a large sheet of foil, fiberglass cloth and/or mat, dope with resin, throw a sheet of wax paper over it, and drop a heavy plate on it to press it flat while it cures. There's no reason you couldn't do multilayer as well! And aren't there surface printers that can print right onto a PCB? Are any of the inks resistive to etch?

[@flash001USA]

Tricknologyinc You mentioned soldering onto foil. I have never been able to get solder to marry to foil. How did you get it to work?

[@rmarsh9997]

Tricknologyinc

[@TecKnowFreak]

Hey u should make boards for condensing DC voltage to specific Volts for converting items over to DC i do it the hard way premade board and go to it lol you should call me some time to talk about just that! I just use a staked diode board to reduce the voltage down to switch items over easy just takes time to set and make lol!

[@binarytradingspecialists2758]

Can i use this method with CPUs

[@flash001USA]

In what way? What are you trying to do with the CPU's?

[@xGemiKnighTx]

Dude thank you for this.. it's too bad we're in brothering countries, it'd be great to have you as a teacher (^_^") ... I'm new to the ways of electronic engineering, and help is hard to find 🙀

[@mikemarriam]

Good stuff! Thanks.

[@jeffbeck6501]

I would have put those lights somewhere else to keep the heat away from the boards.

[@flash001USA]

If you are making reference to the lights that will mount to the board they don't run at full power. They run cool enough to hold your hand on. They only become part of the circuit as the batteries top off on charging.

[@WatcherLater]

I used this mixture to purify silver into an atomized powder.

[@flash001USA]

To this day I still consider this is to be the best way to etch circuit boards over using ferric chloride and I made this video 7 years ago so that's a personal testament to how I feel about using this method. Ferric chloride is messy and a hassle to find locally and now that all of the Radio Shacks closed their doors it's hard to find. The electronics parts houses want to charge you an arm leg for the stuff too. Yeah this methods really works. Thanks for the feedback.

[@WatcherLater]

@@flash001USA thanks for the method. Glad to get a reply.

[@DianaBidwellRtmiss]

Really helpful video, but wow those auto-captions. Lol 😂

[@raguaviva]

thanks for sharing

[@lucxidmusxic2098]

Adding water to acid causes a more urgent exothermic reaction that can rapidly boil the acid and can splash blast the solution towards self

[@flash001USA]

I've always been careful working with this method and I've never had any kind of reaction whatsoever where the fluids became unstable to the point of becoming a dangerous issue and I couldn't tell you how many circuit boards I etched with this method but it's well over 500 circuit boards with no issues of instability with the liquids.

[@lucxidmusxic2098]

@@flash001USA I meant this as a response to hearing you say in your video that you didn't know why it was that way so I dropped ya the answer as it was told unto me way back in gen chem

[@flash001USA]

@@lucxidmusxic2098 OK, that makes sense. I just misunderstood what you were saying. This method is pretty stable but you have to handle the muriatic acid with kid gloves because you wouldn't want it splashing up into your eye's much less onto your clothes where it would eat holes into your shirts or pants.

[@lucxidmusxic2098]

@@flash001USA Ahaa NO DOUBT. As luck would have it,...a few weeks ago, a plastic gallon bottle half full was yanked off a shelf in my garage as I was trying to untangle an extension cord. It hit the ground and given I was wearing shorts that day, I got my shins all splashed up and I said OPE Oh shit oh shit oh shit. Burns instantly but if ur quick enough to rinse thoroughly with water I wound up not getting to badly injured. Yeah, then I blasted a whole box of baking soda solution in water all over the garage items which it hit. Anyway. Something about dropping water in acid, the water molecule is surrounded on all sides by the HCl which rapidly responds from highly concentrated starting point In doing the opposite, a drop of acid landing in water unit by unitt starts as a very dilute acid and the concentration increases as one pours the acid in which generally behaves much nicer. Peace

[@TecKnowFreak]

Yes and if more also would understand DC runs better and longer in yr house and then they would need way less keep in mind i can be in the middle of nowhere with just my base setup of 5 solar and 2 micro turbines and run everything for 15hrs a day nonstop no problem. Most tho go by what is the power comps. and gov standards which only take in to account using AC only so they loose 40 to 80% of the made power to make AC in heat loss!

[@taiyyabkagzi535]

this picture in English. i don't English. pls hindi video sent me

[@47burke]

Put a stainless steel knife in the solution and it will withdraw all the copper out on to the knife. This way you can use the solution again :)

[@flash001USA]

Thanks I will try that! Have you etched with this mixture and have you tried the stainless steel idea?

[@hili467]

yeah, but you're going end up with a copper plated knife, and iron in your solution lol

[@nskmda]

Genious!

[@trenten2527]

2021 gang

[@TecKnowFreak]

yes but its not like i am saying you would sell tons and get rich what i am saying is there is a growing group out there that want stuff that is not chinese crap and would pay to have knowing its made strong and will last a life time and do the job the same every time!

[@welcometothemachines614]

hey nice video, I've been doing electronics for over 25 years, want to do a project together?

[@flash001USA]

What kind of project? What's your main field?

[@welcometothemachines614]

how about a tesla project? are you an engineer? I am and also have 20+ years as a diesel mechanic thanks to the air force :) been doing electronics since i was 12 years oldI have a b.s. in electronics engineering, but got it back in 95' been doing mostly projects on my own. mosly audio amps, guitar pedals lately, but want to try some telsa coil experiments. let me know :)

[@antonettedionela4306]

your voice sounds like blake shelton

[@flash001USA]

That's funny, and with a bit of a southern twist too.

[@aaronsmith797]

you sound like Bill Clinton

[@flash001USA]

I am laughing my ass off! Yeah I do hear the somewhat southern pronunciations in my words so that I do get but I don't think I could get away with pulling off a Bill Clinton voice but now you have me wondering that maybe.... Just maybe... On an ending note, my personal beliefs about Bill Clinton is that the guy is a sell-out communist/criminal along with being a possible rapist criminal but that's just my personal opinion so please don't take offense to that just in case you are a democratic supporter.

[@cr2486]

Okey , okey, okey, you have a passion for electric boxes okey those circuit boards are your friends and the circuit board in the heart of the box acts like a cop controlling the other circuit board guys, it was a video about acids!!! Then it turned into something like a kids show gone wrong with Mr controller cop haha lmao ha.....well if that's your thing that's your thing you carry on , seriously tho was this video meant to be a joke or was that really your heartily passion???

[@hili467]

hehehe if you put the muriatic acid in first and add hydrogen peroxide to it, it'll probably explode. The heat will probably decompose the hydrogen peroxide into hydrogen and oxygen, and the heat will make an explosion lol

[@flash001USA]

hi li I honestly don't know if that would be the case but from everything I've read on doing this they tell you to mix it in the order I mentioned in the video. All I know is this works hands down and it blows using ferric chloride totally out of the water for etching circuit boards including etching 10 mil wide traces too.

[@Blarog53]

+hi li Actually H2O2, (hydrogen peroxide) is mildly acidic and will not decompose from contact with acid, if you mix it with a base though you better be prepared for a very exciting reaction.

[@jamesthomason5263]

YO