EU taxes on Chinese built EVs - why and what happens next??

[@jomo2483]

You're the first car reviewer to talk about how the Japanese went through what the Chinese are going through at the moment. That's why I like your channel, you're not just about cars, you're intelligent too. Kudos!!

[@dand8163]

Of course he is intelligent. He’s German. 🇩🇪

[@autogefuehl]

Cheers m8!

[@marcurobertalexandru5425]

I agree, that's why I like this channel as well, you are the best, really! 🤜🤛

[@cheungchingtong]

It was not quite the same I think, Japanese was more like making their cars more affordable than the US' and European ones, this time though, it is digital EV, and even more affordable.

[@autogefuehl]

🙏🙏

[@MithunKalan]

remember the old days where the government said we should get EVs to reduce the CO2

[@philp7012]

But they said it would fix everything! Are you telling me it won't?! Lol

[@Jeff.55649]

In 10 years most of us will drive EVs.

[@MithunKalan]

@@Jeff.55649 you said that 10 years ago

[@Peter-o6o]

@@Jeff.55649 would you bet on it, though?

[@cbotten106]

@@Peter-o6o hybrids of some sort, i'd guess

[@camilstoenescu]

If I'm not mistaken, the European auto industry is much more dependent on the Chinese market than the other way around.

[@notagain2856]

Its true, especially for European giant VW. Losing market share in China really hurt VGA's bottomline. Premium brands like BMW require China for growth too and have been creating products tailored specifically for the country

[@senseikanacke69]

Not european rather just germany

[@antihypocrisy8978]

There is a reason why France and Italy were vocal supporters of tariffs. Citroen, Renault, and Alfa have minimal presence in China. High end German and Italian cars stand to lose most because they are exported to China.

[@daweigo6851]

European car sales dropping in china

[@hermesliteratus882]

The good days of European legacy automakers in China are numbered.

[@zelcpavle5494]

Thr European car prices are craaazyy !!! They should be ashames how they pumped up the prices...wtf !!!

[@Mgoblagulkablong]

You are a completely brainwashed, radical NPC. It's NOT cars that are too exepensive. It's TAXES on ICE cars. And materials for EV batteries.If a €10k car has 15k taxes it costs 25k. If a €10k car has a 30k battery it costs 40k. You are too brainwashed to understand such a simple thing. NPC

[@marsec-1]

They have very high costs. There is no way back 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@massimilianozeni1848]

@@marsec-1 stellantis posted its best profit in 2023 by selling way less car than before covid so that's not true. Actually a lot of parts, even for german car, come from China, that's why they will tax only chinese made vehicles but they can't do much for cars like the one stellantis decided to build in Poland, the leap motor will basically only be assembled there. And Poland has lower labor cost per car than China where in fact in BYD factories there are way more robots than in any european factory

[@alxdava2004]

That's what you get when you pi.s on the cheapest energy and material provider. Also when you leave billions in investments behind

[@zelcpavle5494]

@@massimilianozeni1848 agree 100% and they are hiding their real profits.... With the added "expenses" ...they are ripping us all ..big time

[@pragadoegito]

The result of raising taxes is only one: working class people get poorer

[@ph8077]

Woke WEF authoritarians don't need to worry about getting poorer - they're planning a lifestyle for the plebs that they definitely won't be living themselves

[@ingmarlangerak8973]

Fact. European cars are to expensive, especially in the Netherlands! Nuts!

[@artureff3046]

taxes

[@USA-AMERICA-iq6qk]

@@artureff3046 Freedom is not cheap, you buy their cars, next thing they will have their army at your doorstep

[@strasnodimke]

@@artureff3046lol no not taxes, greed by manufacturers, taxes stayed same in the past few years

[@valentincolteanu3403]

@@strasnodimke way to high salaries, buy a VW made in Germany its going to cost a lot to make, make it in Romania (like Dacia plant) and its gonna be a lot cheaper to make

[@Carswatchesandfish]

come and see prices in Turkey, then you can see what nuts really is 😅

[@Krebs61]

These should be a wake-up call and red alarm for eu manufacturers that they are obviously overcharging for their products..

[@borghorsa1902]

Just because something is cheap doesn't mean we have to buy it, we will not let it in our market

[@TD1237]

​@borghorsa1902 Most people prefer high tech and affordable cars, like those from Chins. So you want them to settle for something less feature rich and more expensive? You may prefer cars like that, but not everyone does.

[@jonpetter8921]

@@TD1237 The newest EVs from Europe have the latest techs. So the "china has better tech" is not true: Chinese don t have high salary, social amenities, environment taxes like in Europe that s why they can cut in price.

[@pezamemija7621]

​​​@@jonpetter8921 all of that you mentioned I dont care about it, it does nothing for me. We simply cant afford eu cars anymore. Could care less what happens in China, their cars are becoming as good as european counterparts for half thr money, its a simple yes for majority of the working class. And also , all that was not a problem when EU manfacturers sold and produced in China? So they can use lack of social whatever, no enviromental laws, low salaries etc but when Chinese do it its a big no and shame on them. Double standards are ridicolous here. Come on, people are not kids, greed is the biggest problem here.

[@Mgoblagulkablong]

You are a completely brainwashed, radical NPC. It's NOT cars that are too exepensive. It's TAXES on ICE cars. And materials for EV batteries.If a €10k car has 15k taxes it costs 25k. If a €10k car has a 30k battery it costs 40k. You are too brainwashed to understand such a simple thing. NPC

[@markosz22]

Maybe the European manufacturers should have made affordable and competitive cars for the public instead of horribly overpriced gimmicky cars... Do politicians think people buy Chinese crap because we like them? No, that's what most people can (barely) afford.

[@Aiantaschr]

Exactly what I am saying. Nobody would choose to buy a generic looking chinese EV if the European brands were offering unique and good products with reasonable prices. But if the ix2 , which is a compact crossover ,costs 49 900 starting, and with 42 000 I can get the BYD seal U( medium sized crossover) or if I spend 6 thousand euros more, I can get the BYD Tang which is a large SUV, i think the choice is obvious..

[@daweigo6851]

Childish comment, Chinese cars quality can out do European cars

[@Whatshisname346]

The issue is profitability not affordability. High volume small cars only make sense if you can sell at volume. With rising production costs and lower subsidies legacy brands have no choice but to chase higher margins on lower volumes. Only when high subsidies and low manufacturing costs are available can manufacturers justify lower priced offerings. This is why China can sell ‘cheap crap’ here in Europe. It’s also why Renault is able to build the 4 and the 5. The new subsidy tax structure in France basically knocks up to €12,000 off the price of a new EV. This makes manufacturing a high volume small EV in France viable. Ditto Tesla who are getting $7,500 per car in the US.

[@Valor110]

Well sanctioning means that nor US nor EU can't compete. Therefore the politicians can do is sanction Chinese EV's. In the first hand this will hurt consumers. Chinese EV's are cheaper and from the quality perspective very good and getting better. The less competition you have in a market, the worse it is for a consumer.

[@Picard47Lock]

More background industry videos please👍. Would love it if you also had access within a manufacturer to give us a snapshot on some part of the development or building of a car. The BMW textile department deep dive you did was great so something along those lines

[@jasonmugridge]

He's not going to be able to tell us the truth if he gets into bed with them

[@cos_marc]

Unfortunately German car manufacturers got more and more greedy to increase the year over year profits and be investor pleasers only. When you increase profits from cost cutting and not from innovation, there's only one thing that can happen. When your cars get built by accountants, not by engineers and client feedback, this is what happens: your money go up in the short-term but down in the long-term... Strategies should be made for 5-10 years not for the next quarter. They missed the start with EVs and came back with 45k golf (ID.3) and 100K Q6-etron or Taycan... MG4 is selling like crazy while we're still waiting for the ID.2... really, who's the manager that said it's a good idea to get the ID. Buzz out before the ID.2 ....

[@anoniem9518]

I suggest you take a look at the income statements of German car manufacturers and see how little profits they make compared to other US companies. VAG has a net margin of around 5%, Tesla of around 15%, Facebook, Nvidia, Apple all make more than 40%.

[@cos_marc]

​@@anoniem9518 Voila, so you just have to "copy" Tesla... Then they didn't even ask themselves how comes that the cars get more expensive and their margin stays the same... this means that they are not efficient and that's even clear for me, a random guy on the internet. If you sell 100 models with 100 combinations of engines and gearboxes, that's just stupid these days. When you look at VW and see T-Roc, T-Roc Cabrio, T-Cross and Taigo ...this screams inefficiency and useless overhead. They have 4-5 engines when 2 would be enough as now you can get more than enough power from a 2.0 TSI.

[@tomorrowland2684]

@@anoniem9518they sell cheap in China but costly for the same product in other parts just to compete or stay there. They are subsidising Chinese consumers by taking money from other countries. The car manufacturers in Germany made rigid production methods. Then subsidies from CCP is more than subsidies from German companies to German manufacturers. Then the management they are shut in Germany.

[@comahon2000]

The Chinese no longer want expensive German imports when they can buy a Chinese made car of similar quality for half the price. Sales of German cars was a massive cash cow for the German car industry and now it’s gone.

[@jasonmugridge]

Good job those German cmpanies invested all that money they made... oh wait!

[@1sti]

I like how the EU chose to keep Europe choking up in german diesel instead of forcing makers to go green. They spent a ton of our taxpayer money to save airlines and car manufacturers, what we got in return is the most expensive EVs with cartel prices boosted by the highest VATs, government incentives for private customers were jokingly low so far, now that the masses would have access to affordable alternatives they get a slap in the face...

[@dnc3861]

Electric cars don t stop shit on the climate change. The "german diesel" is a bullshit what the green party says. Frist of all, french, japanese and korean manufacturers are selling diesel too. Secondly the modern diesels aren t any worse than petrol...

[@Whatshisname346]

Don’t forget that these subsidies in the past kept millions of people in jobs during tough times. And some EU countries are providing good subsidy packages for new EV buyers. In France you can basically get €12,000 off a new EV is your car is within a lower price bracket and you’re on a lower income. So some are doing it; it’s just not universal.

[@colorant84]

When the EU wants to export: FREE MARKET! When China wants to export: OVERCAPACITY!

[@Haggvz]

this statement is false. The Chinese car market has been dominated by German car for at least 3 decades. China has been exporting free market for 30 years. Eu just need to be open for another 30 years. Competition help industry and I am confident that europe will be equally success in the end. Must not learn from USA , bad policy and will lead to inevitable industrial decline over long term. Please check year on year car manufacturing vol since 1990, you will know the fact. Have a great weekend

[@mariinito985]

As someone from India, it’s reallyyyyy hard being a car guy because of all the taxes imposed here on cars. Just as a summary, the Indian government imposes 49% (CGST tax + SGST tax + CESS tax) taxes on any cars. Plus if the car is imported (not made in India), an additional 100% taxes is imposed. And if the car price exceeds $10k, an additional 1% TCS tax. And still the Road tax, part of Income Tax, Warranty, Insurances are still left. So in India, almost a whopping 180% tax is imposed if it is an imported car. Porsche Caymen, which starts from $75k in the US cost $240k in India. Thank you Government

[@USA-AMERICA-iq6qk]

Yes! And people in USA are complaining that German cars are expensive. Good advice to Indian, try to produce as much stuff inside India, not one rupee should go to China, they are not friendly and they are not the West, they will completely conquer anything they can get their hands on and will never let it go

[@Anti-FreedomD.P.R.ofSouthKorea]

Literally, laws that reinforce oligarchy. Your own government that you pay taxes for making imported cars a thing only the top 0.5%~ rich people can buy

[@umutcakmak3221]

I'm going to one up you on that and say living in Turkey is worse. We have in total 284% tax on all cars above 2.0L engine. Below that we still have around 116% tax. So $75k car would be $288k. Like you said on top of that we still have income tax, gas tax, motored vehicle tax, lots of toll roads, warranty, insurance. Our income tax also goes up to 40% which is i believe higher than world average. Not to mention high inflation rates makes the car prices unstable so all of them are commonly 5 - 10% higher priced too. You also have to somehow fight the inflation on your own savings because non of the banks give you enough interest rates to fight that.

[@ph8077]

Wow, that's insane.

[@ph8077]

@@umutcakmak3221 & that's even insane-r! 😁 Buy Bitcoin as soon as you are paid if you live in a high inflation country but remember to keep enough everyday cash from your wages.

[@ladare19]

Problem here is the Euro especially German legacy automakers. They were able to charge a premium for their vehicles is not only because of looks, comfort or performance, it's because of the brand (like owning an iphone). In China, that brand loyalty has gone and they started to go towards Chinese brands not because of brands but for the cost/ performance/ comfort and features they offer better than the Western automakers who provide less features for a premium. Like you mentioned how Japanese automakers proved how efficient their vehicles were for lower cost the same thing Chinese automakers are doing with EVs. First these Western companies need to stop paying huge yearly packages and bonuses to their higher ups and invest that money in R&D, salary to the employees. They waste all these money and year after year they just keep increasing the cost of the vehicle. Taxing or putting a ban on Chinese or any other country automakers will cause a huge economic crisis. Volkswagen because of their bad decisons the board members are ready to close down the factory, think how many jobs will be lost. Instead they could tie up with a Chinese EV and manufacture vehicle (in part of the factory) and keep the jobs of thos existing employees. Legacy automakers in Germany need to lower their prices and target buyers who are not the 1% or the riches and create a new segment. Already Volkswagen and now Mercedes is having a bad sales in China their 2nd largest market.

[@derbigpr500]

Nonsense. Nobody was charging a premium for the brand alone, but because they were making the best cars.

[@TD1237]

Here in South Africa, there is also much less focus on brand nowadays. And Chinese cars are dominating. I'm honestly glad, because we're getting luxurious, well-made products for so much less than the European cars.

[@autogefuehl]

VW have actually already teamed up with Xpeng to build EVs together

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@autogefuehl Mini Cooper SE is also built by joint venture of BMW and Great Wall Motors.

[@autogefuehl]

Indeed. They wanna also build it in Oxford now though

[@hyrenaj2888]

The US is subsidizing its EVs to the tune of $7500 (via material sourcing and manufacturing origin requirements) AND adding a 100% tariff on Chinese cars to stay "competitive"

[@scowil456]

Thank you for this video Thomas. Yes, please continue them when necessary as they’re very helpful and informative.

[@vasisimari92058]

Yes I really enjoyed this video. Tell us more about background movements in the automotive industry.

[@autogefuehl]

👍

[@strawboi]

Hey Thomas, as usual, great video! You’re one of the few who isn’t biased and just tells it like it is. I hope you continue doing that because there are so many opinions in the media that seem skewed. It’s refreshing to see someone who sticks to the facts instead of using data just to push a narrative. So, bravo to you, Thomas!

[@theanswer1993]

What we do? We all buy Dacias because they are the only cheap realiable brand in Europe.

[@mihaelmiles7184]

Dacia is not reliable

[@Mgoblagulkablong]

Dacia are NOT cheap anymore. There are zero discounts on Dacia, also they aren't very reliable long term. More reliable japanese and korean cars are offered with discounts far below list price and are better value for money long term.

[@theanswer1993]

@@mihaelmiles7184 it's one of the most reliable brands out there

[@theanswer1993]

I don't care about discouts. Market the damn cars with their actual price! We're not in fing Egypt to negotiate the price. ​If the price on the website is out of my budget I'm not even going to the shop. Dacias last 150.000 km without any problems, the parts are cheap, everyone knows how to fix them because the cars are simple without bullshit@@Mgoblagulkablong

[@theanswer1993]

​@@MgoblagulkablongAlso Toyota isn't giving any discounts anymore.

[@dzonikg]

Chines car are not cheap,is that EU cars are insanely expensive . I remember in 2000s my country Serbia still had 20% import tax on imports ,and then US and people from EU came and sad that is so bad for our economy ,that there should not be any borders for trade ,so my country lower it to 0% for US and EU (which off course made west products in pol position becase then our companies were just getting out from 90s (war, sanctions) so they were still not ready,.So west companies wipe them out .20-30% off people lost jobs in that years . But there was also a catch that we ordinary people find out only later years ,even technically we could also export to EU with 0% ,everywhere where we could make cheaper products (like steel or food) we had year quotas.So like year quota for steel export to EU was less then we produced in a month(and it still is ) ,same was for food and other stuff where we could make cheaper stuff .But EU did not have any quota to export to Serbia anything they want. There was also other "orders" and that was that we should still keep import tax for China and we still have them but there is deal now to abolish them totaly and i cant wait for it.My next car will be Chines .

[@borghorsa1902]

The only cheap things are tickets to Hell. Yes, we can fix the prices but it doesn't mean that we have to destroy our manufacturing base and buy everything made in totalitarian states. In the end their stuff is not cheap, it will cost us our Freedom

[@chefchaudard3580]

Taxes on Chinese cars (except for EVs) are only 10%. Meaning that a car that costs 20000€ will cost 18000€. Not a huge difference, I think.

[@Jeff.55649]

But I bet you want your salary to rise every year?

[@markmd9]

If you'll exclude taxes for Chinese products, they will be cheap but that will crash all internal production because nobody can compete with China at prices.

[@dzonikg]

​@@markmd9 Well all big domestic companies here are already crushed by western or bought for cheap so there is nothing here to save anymore .We produced tractors,cars,combine harvesters ,buses ,trucks etc.Every off that factories are now closed forever .Almost Every food producer is now owned by big western company (like coca cola now owns more then 50 former socialist brands here) ,they now own banks ,90% off supermarkets ,like they bought 2 mayor former socialist supermarket chains that had many supermarkets in every city , C-market and Pekabeta and that get them practically monopoly on market ,and there promise was they will lower prices but what happend ,totaly opposite , prices in markets skyrocketed ,now prices in supermarkets are more expensive then in Germany . SO there is not much to save.Why would we save now west brands when we fail to save ours.

[@baronvonjo1929]

I dont get to interact with many European car brands over here in the US. But it seems clear they keep rasing prices while dropping in quality. I sat in the current Tiguan that VW gives us and was surprised how low quality it was. It was poorly put together and was cheap black scratchy plastic all over. Felt like a 2000s American branded car. It was amazing to be inside a car with a screen that felt like or was from the 90s or 2000s. Also for that size. You get that level of poor build quality with subcompacts or B segment cars here in the US like the Yaris, Fiesta, Versa. Not a compact CUV. I see other videos of Mercedes , BMW, and Volvo and its clear cost cutting is all over but they keep raising prices.

[@derbigpr500]

The VW's you get in the US are different than the EU models, and aren't built in the EU or designed there.

[@gregorygant4242]

A lot of "German " branded cars sold in the US aren't made in Germany but in US factories so don't be surprised with that !

[@gregorygant4242]

​@@derbigpr500Yep !

[@Aiantaschr]

I can assure you that it's not only the models in the US that are so poorly built. I am from Cyprus and I have sat into my friends T-Roc( Bought in Cyprus, produced in Portugal) and I was so disappointed with everything. Quality of Materials= extremely poor, scratchy and uninspiring ride quality= uncomfortable and tiring, even for short trips and the seat was very hard and uncomfortable!

[@livolas]

​@@gregorygant4242the factory doesn't matter too much. The materials are the same all over the world and cutting corners is something imposed from the top level of the company. The most famous example is the Golf starting to use a manual strut to open the hood.

[@JackKing12.]

£100k for an Audi is crazy

[@MrFatpenguin]

Free market for me, taxes for thee. Save the environment, but only when my profits are guaranteed. Capitalism working as expected.

[@Sal3600]

this is not capitalism lol capitalism will win by people getting hold of a compelling product by trading Thier hard earned cash. regulations like that of the EU is going against this.

[@tooltalk]

China is not free market.

[@MrFatpenguin]

@@Sal3600 it's how capitalism works in the real world, not in theory. The US is not different, they also have protectionism, just like any other capitalist country, all fueled by the lobby from private companies.

[@userw-f7c]

Thanks for tackling this difficult subject so well and from all angles. Love your reviews and your channel. Please keep up the fantastic work!!

[@davidclerihew3539]

Imposing import taxes on Chinese cars, let’s face it, at the behest of the US government, will only hurt European consumers both in terms of their finances & product choice/quality (their vehicle are streets ahead of European or US alternatives). Unfortunately for the EU, China does not need the EU market but the EU REALLY need Chinese products to meet it’s net zero dictate.

[@disarchitected]

Chinese cars aren’t ahead. Tesla are the only manufacturer making significant margins in the EV space, because of their integration and miniaturisation of components and time saving production techniques such as the gigapress. There have been teardowns of cars such as the Xpeng P7, it shows the underlying technology is much the same as legacy Western manufacturers. I have yet to see Rivian or Lucid teardowns, but I would bet good money, their technology is ahead of the Chinese manufacturers too. All the Chinese EV’s launched in the UK have been double their Chinese list price, and the UK does not impose any tariffs. So cars like the BYD Seal at £44k are more expensive than the Tesla Model 3 (£40k) and don’t come with a dedicated supercharger network. This shows in their sales figures. I have seen a grand total of 1 BYD Seal on the roads in London. I think my development carpark is 10% Model 3 and 10% Model Y. They are very popular. So, in the main, Chinese cars represent a choice not many people will take, because even without tariffs, they are simply not cost competitive. The only exception I can think of is the MG4, which is popular, but I understand that is cheap for a reason. It was voted the car with the worst reliability in Whatcar’s recent survey. It’s got a horrible plasticky interior, dated infotainment etc.

[@davidclerihew3539]

@@disarchitected nonesense, even Tesla admit the Chinese manufacturers are ahead of the competition, not to mention Lucid (if they can sort out their distribution & pricing). Tesla are certainly miles ahead of the OEM’s (as a Tesla owner) in the US & EU, particularly in terms of charging infrastructure & efficiency, but they are barely even relevant now & wont be going forward.

[@disarchitected]

@@davidclerihew3539 TBH, Elon Musk says a lot of things, to put it mildly. I totally disagree Chinese vehicles are streets ahead. Recently launched Leapmotor c10 could only manage a 5 out of 10 rating on TopGear. Poor reviews for the Ora Funky Cat. Poor reviews for the Omoda 5. Just not a single compelling product launched so far in the UK. I’d much rather have the new Renault Scenic than any of the Chinese EV’s.

[@disarchitected]

@@davidclerihew3539 Really your comment has no basis on evidence, only media hype and speculation. And let’s be honest, Elon Musk says a lot of things, some of which, I daresay, aren’t based on reality to put it mildly.

[@davidclerihew3539]

@@disarchitected well that is very true 😂

[@trustmub1]

So EU does not care about the planet after all.

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

Hello. Greetings from Shanghai. Let me offer a Chinese perspective. For about 40 years, foreign car makes, particularly German and American brands, have enjoyed their largest export (and captive import) market in China. In fact, German brands have occupied a privileged position (e.g., our family has a BMW X5 and WV Polo). Now that Chinese produce high quality, competitive EVs, we find the current situation where the EU is raising high protectionist tariffs and USA has not only imposed ridiculously high tariffs, but also "security" barriers to any Chinese cars or automotive products containing electronics - clearly a misuse of WTO rules. Chinese see this for what it is: (1) Protection of local automakers who have slow to adopt EV technology in general for low-priced cars & have less compelling value propositions, (2) in EU, forcing investment in EU plants such as was done with Japanese brands, (3) in USA, where Xenophobic, anti-Chinese sentiments have been stirred-up across the board for political advantage and Joint-Venture investment projects refused on the same "security" grounds, an attempt to kneecap the rise of China, where only Polestar has some meager market and even a CATL battery plant projects in two states have been blocked by local politicians. Adding to the friction is the fact that foreign brands (including Japanese) are loosing market share in China because they simply do not offer competitive EV products and are losing brand mind-share. I assure you the success of Chinese EVs in our domestic market is NOT driven primarily by nationalism as many Americans claim despite Tesla success here, but simply the value proposition of good quality EVs at a bargain price. For example, since China government policy did promote & support developing EV technology, many Chinese start-ups and legacy companies invested in development creating today, a cut-throat market where only the best will survive and companies with poor products or that are under-funded will drop out : exactly what legacy brands in the EU and USA fear, The proof of this is seen in the USA where even Chinese battery companies have been barred from building JV plants under ridiculously transparent "security" sounds (yes, electrodes are spying on loyal Americans) and can only license technology (as CATL has with Ford). I do not think this will succeed to kill the competitive Chinese EV makers, they are already succeeding in markets that do not have high barriers an are building local plants that succeed (for example, Thailand, where they have caught local Japanese competitors off-guard). What will happen is the adoption of EVs in EU and USA will be slow - we can see already the rush to Hybrids as a defensive measure and bending the rules to give local automakers more time. Competitive Chinese brands are here to stay, just as German, Japanese and Koreans before them won global markets based on merit. Thanks for reading and considering my comment

[@autogefuehl]

Thanks for the interesting report!

[@prakashnarismulu3332]

Great content Tomas . More of these please. Greetings from South Africa 🇿🇦

[@autogefuehl]

Thanks m8 👍

[@brandenongkp]

In addition to cost, Chinese electric car technology is already more advanced than that of the EU.

[@cbotten106]

The electrical drivetrain components in their best stuff certainly is more advanced.

[@Khalil.8611]

In Morocco the prices of chinese EVs is double the price of what they sold for in China.

[@disarchitected]

Same in the UK. UK doesn’t have tariffs either.

[@lenuvian]

Same in eu, and still better value than european brands.

[@user-littleoldbrother]

5年前的中国市场，欧洲车美国车日本车的售价，也是这种情况😂。

[@fernandinand]

Same here (PT). It's called taxation...

[@carlosorff]

When you lookit up and see that Dacia is the best selling car in EU,"The Dacia Sandero was again the top-selling car model in Europe in August 2024" than you can conclude, that EU along with the current political leadership is going down the drain. No offense to people buying Dacia, but Dacia was never a highlight of technological achievement, but it shows the direction the EU is going.

[@user-propositionjoe]

VW sell the id3 in china for $15000-$17000. They sell the same car in Europe for 30k. The European car industry milks the market in the EU. Affordable Chinese EVs would be chosen over every EU maker and they know it. So they artificially increase prices, it's obvious. Instead of just making European cars cheaper to compete.

[@pnketia]

Thank you for pointing out the history of tariffs on other car manufacturer's like the Japanese and Koreans because so many people seem to think this is something new with Chinese automakers and it isn't. The goal of the tariffs is to get the foreign car makers to set up manufacturing plants in the countries where they want to sell their vehicles so those economies and job markets benefit from their success. People mis-label them as bans on Chinese cars which they are not because nothing is stopping any Chinese company from building factories in North America and selling their cars there tariff free!

[@njitram2000]

More of this, please, Thomas. I appreciate your approach.

[@autogefuehl]

🙏🙏

[@kumquat3212]

Very interesting, summarises it all very well.

[@autogefuehl]

🙏🙏

[@joro353]

EU antagonizing China... I don't know. Considering the low IQ of current European leadership and size of revenue coming in from China, this might inflict irreversible damage to the German auto industry by escalating into a tit for tat type of situation. I don't know how many cars Germany sells in Japan but in China is way more... incomparably more. China does not tax European vehicles but this will change soon starting with ice engines bigger than 2.5L in addition to EU dairy products and wine. This might escalate into a full blown trade war with China the impact of which we can only guess considering the poorly performing EU economy.

[@3204clivesinclair]

Not forgetting that Japanese imports to Europe also face restrictions. Government subsidies to any private company/car manufacturer should either be scrapped, or face large import fees. Some of these companies go on to make billions in profit - of which the people (tax payers) never see - yet prices go up and up.

[@CharlieZenenour]

Volkswagen group, volvo and many specialty machinery manufacturers (mostly medium size german family business) would go bankrupt. Only car manufacturers not subsidised in the European continent are french (such as renault and dacia) and those french companies are mostly owned by a american conglomerate.

[@CharlieZenenour]

European (specially german companies) big businesses like legacy automakers exist beyond their means. Mostly surviving (and that’s stretching the meaning of that word) by lobbying politicians for beneficial laws as well as subsidies (loans) and by monopolising markets through anti competitive practices, such as targeting small businesses (startups) to steal their competitive advantage or buy it. Sometimes executives will even go as far as using their company’s relationship with another business (example: parts supplier) to force that parts supplier not to do business with their competitor. Such actions are extremely common in the executive boards of conglomerates or single entities that occupy a significant margin of a given market.

[@thess0414]

I think Volvo (geely too I think) brought to Europe some manufacturing in anticipation of the tariffs. What makes this more complicated than the Japanese manufacturing in US is the battery cost and origins

[@apo2740]

thanks a lot sharing this video, I like it a lot. Altho I am not optimistic about politics for the past decades, I like your positivism! Hope you stay like this till the end of time. Take care Thomas !

[@autogefuehl]

👍👍

[@thoomaas]

Thank you Thomas for this new format. It is very clear and interesting. If you think that it could add value to your content, you could perhaps invite a researcher or expert on the topic to highlight some point or add proven theories. Anyways thanks for the great content !

[@autogefuehl]

🙏🙏

[@purkaitsurajit53]

Thanks for the excellent explanation on the issue, Thomas!! Really appreciate it!!👍👍❤️❤️

[@autogefuehl]

👍👍

[@DS-pk4eh]

Let's tell it like it is: European car industry is too expensive because they got too greedy! Not just car manufacturers but the whole industry that makes parts for them. Their prices are insane for what they offer. Add to that, the money car industry throw on sponsorships and marketing (sometimes almost 35% of your car price). Add CEOs and higher manager salaries. You pay your car through the teeth while not getting the BEST. But this still passes in Europe because people are just followers, not thinking critically. European cars should be cheaper and more modern. And it will sell , because market does its job.

[@derbigpr500]

European cars are still by far the best in the world and nobody comes close, and those who do come close, do it because they stole a bunch of engineers from European car companies. Their prices aren't insane, they're realistic for what they offer, and what they offer is the best in every segment. Go buy a cheaper crappier car if you don't want the best. The problem isn't the prices of European cars. The problem are unrealistically cheap crappy Chinese cars that China wants to saturate our market with, to put our companies out of business, and then THEY WILL RAISE PRICES once they have the monopoly. And yes, you absolutely ARE getting the best and need to buy European if you want the best. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply ignorant and doesn't know anything about cars.

[@stevejewiss532]

@@derbigpr500 An MG4 is far superior to an ID3 or an Astra EV, for less money ! If you dont think so youre deluded !

[@Mgoblagulkablong]

You are a completely brainwashed, radical NPC. It's NOT cars that are too exepensive. It's TAXES on ICE cars. And materials for EV batteries.If a €10k car has 15k taxes it costs 25k. If a €10k car has a 30k battery it costs 40k. You are too brainwashed to understand such a simple thing. NPC

[@fkyogk3g]

@@derbigpr500 Europe is stealing resources from African countries

[@panjialfian22]

​@@derbigpr500😂😂 delution

[@PaulMeier-cu3ds]

Very good and please do more on this market stuff. As another topic you might do something on EV battery technologies existing and to come, given batteries make up so much of the cost and weight of EVs.

[@MichaelBertolino]

I literally was thinking yesterday "Does Thomas ever do sit down videos and just talk to the camera?". I guess here's my answer haha

[@stevejewiss532]

Theyll just build factories in Europe and the US , like the Japanese did when they had tariffs applied to them . Theyve already applied to buy some of VWs Audi factories that theyre shutting .

[@gery4870]

Love this format Thomas !! You could do more vids like this one, of Auto Industry !!

[@diegoyuiop]

We're going back to a world of protectionism... It was good while it lasted

[@cbotten106]

The honey pot potential of EV sales in a marginally free market is to sweet to resist (or leave unprotected.)

[@Staticmeltdown11]

Hi Thomas, I really enjoyed hearing your intelligent insights into this situation, especially the way you considered the different perspectives of France, Germany, the US and China. It's refreshing to hear someone talking about this topic with a level-head.

[@MerkJacobus]

The Europeans can whine about subsidies but perhaps they should look at the successful Chinese economic model instead of slavishly following neoliberalism. If the EU really cared about pollution, they wouldn't be denying people the opportunity to buy affordable and decent electric cars. The European manufacturers have been hubristic I their approach while not investing in the future. It's all part of the big shift in the balance of power and wealth as North America and Europe go into decline while Asia and the BRICS nations are in the ascendancy..

[@derbigpr500]

Yes the Asian and BRICS nations learned how to do things from Europe. Every Asian car brand , including Chinese, was born out of stealing from European brands, both knowledge and people.

[@joebloggs4191]

China has a succesful economic model? They've got you fooled!

[@Rich-xq3uv]

Your assumption that electric cars are environmentally friendly is laughable.

[@GT-gt4bf]

😂😂😂 BRICS

[@joebloggs4191]

Successful economic model? They’ve got you fooled!

[@tiest0001]

Thomas being Thomas. Great to have EUR journalists talking about this topic. Keep the good content coming. Regards from Mexico

[@emanuelferreira6875]

In Portugal, based on co2 emission, it can go up to 25% the car value on taxes

[@tim_headley]

Thank you Thomas, really good insight into things most of us have no clue about.

[@AlekseiRoldugin]

I'm excited to see more such background videos. Thanks for that!

[@CharlieZenenour]

chinese industrial subsidies happened 2 times. the 1990s for research and development in battery technology and electronics. 2010s for building factories and having low interest loans as a EV startup. after the mid 2010s most of these lower interest loans and cheaper land to build started to dwell and became extremely rare for new companies to have such financial privileges. Since the 2010s most EV companies have gone bankrupt in china. Today all subsidies you’ll find in china for electric vehicles is not paying carbon tax, lower cost for licensing the vehicle and access to no emissions zones (cities and neighbourhoods with no fossil fuels allowed)

[@marcin_pisz]

The wording is very specific. Talks about the Chinese subsidy for electric vehicles. Nobody talks about a huge subsidies in the past by Europe for diesel vehicles which ended up being mostly a waste. Huge misstep by European industry as it did not assume that electrification and generally rate of change would increase so fast for the auto industry

[@jasonmugridge]

Great video Thomas. Would be great if you were able to go to China as I think most watching this have no idea what the market there is really like. People might like to know that VW kept making the Santana for almost 40 years in China. And we wonder why the Chinese have gone off their cars. The Chinese consumer once hated Chinese made products more than foreigners, oh how times change. As a result VW now sell the ID3 for €15,000 euros in China and still there not selling enough.

[@tiro2041]

Really well done analysis of the situation!

[@David_Schwarz_DOP]

Danke für das super informative Format. Sehr gern mehr davon! LG

[@SimJoy]

For me it looks like we will buy cheaper Chinese cars produced in Europe and the Chinese will buy perhaps more premium German cars. Nicely done big companies and politicians...what can I say. Anyway Thomas, if we look at Germany some cities put a lot of pressure to reduce the amount of cars by cutting parking spaces, remaking streets with 2 lanes in streets with just one lane and also at the same time more people switch to bicycles...

[@jaa-goo]

Thomas the economic professor! Never thought I'd see that😅. Sitges is nice, enjoy!

[@autogefuehl]

👍👍

[@КирилЧакъров-у7ф]

Its because EU is practically becoming a country and from there, the logic comes.

[@USA-AMERICA-iq6qk]

EU becoming a country will be a good thing because it will mean that finally they can unite and have a solid defense policy with military industrial complex functioning at a healthy rhythm. So far Eu is too divided I think

[@cbotten106]

Acting economically as one entity is kind of the idea because it brings clout. Or that's the theory.

[@zx10racer55]

USA and Mexico becoming a country will be a good thing because it will mean that finally they dont need a stupid wall at the border. Cultural variety will be good for the US

[@Mal-ey2mm]

That was an interesting, unbiased view with good understanding. Thanks I learned a lot.

[@JohnnyJPPC]

I think that with the new technology that exists and some brands are already using this technology based on 3D printing, if there is such a structure in each country of any brand, different cars and models can be built in each country and thus reduce costs for who matters and for the consumer, it is a big step for brands to take but it is a step that they will eventually have to take so that everyone benefits in general

[@andrisromanovskis9363]

Very good balanced view, Thomas, thanks! However, I belong to the party that think German cars are overpriced fat and do not provide the value customers used to expect from German cars. Perhaps a hunger kummer in German car industry is well deserved then? My last VW AG car date ended in 2012. At that time I was testing A4 and it ended with me concluding that the brand is cheap like a budget hostel, but sold at a price of Waldorf Astoria, New York. The latest example of German quality I saw was this spring - a rusting MB EQE. Wow! So, let us give Chinoise a try!

[@autogefuehl]

cheers m8!

[@alexp-de]

very good explanation - thank you

[@autogefuehl]

🙏🙏

[@vadimtres]

Great insights! Very intersting to hear those.

[@elpatron8233]

Very nice video, I would like more of these

[@autogefuehl]

👍

[@wltdo6930]

Chinese cars are highly subsidised by their government, so no wonder European brands struggle to remain competitive with them. The EU need to do whatever it takes to protect their businesses

[@jedi2832]

remember, EU & US also subsidize EVs. here in the US, we get $7500 + $1500+ depends on the state. I doubt China gets more.

[@gourami7]

The EU have created this mess, car companies have invested heavily into EVs while still sustaining the still profitable ICE market. They have to sell % of EVs at high prices to a shrinking market or they will be fined. Meanwhile incentives to buy EVs have vanished and many would be buyers are still wary due to range anxiety, lack of charge points and high initial cost.

[@callez2402]

The need to get rid of the green and the socialists, and let EV cars compete om same terms, now it is imposed by the lunetics in EU, a lot german.

[@davidclerihew3539]

EU brands are NOT competitive with China. It’s not about subsidies, it’s about how integrated the Chinese supply chain is, cheaper labour & the availability of the cutting edge technologies & batteries. Europe cant compete with the US, let alone China in manufacturing due to cost & regulation. There is no protecting EU car businesses, or manufacturing in general. Europes de-industrialisation will only accelerate & the only hope of VW & Mercedes etc is to effectively abandon Europe & pivot towards China.

[@faheemabbas3965]

It is hypocritical really, US and EU both subsidize EVs, but when China does it…

[@teddypark9832]

This was very informative as well as your video about the Audi A5 ownership

[@Krrish85]

Big problem with the tariffs is that the cost lands in the end user. In the long run increasing inflation etc.

[@littlsuprstr]

EVs are a disruptive technology, like flat panel TVs, like the iphone. Upstart companies have a huge advantage over legacy automakers because they don't have nearly as much investment/debt/sunk cost in the old technology. Once the mainstream consumer drives a product that has next generation technology and convenience, at a lower or similar price to an older technology it's very hard to go back.

[@rsp1766]

At the end, it is ALWAYS the consumer which suffers from higher taxes!

[@gabriel5213]

Capitalists scream about how it is a free market, until someone comes along and produces the same product, at a lower price with a better quality and suddenly they, scream «cHiNa is fLoOdInG tHe mArKeT» and «iT’s nOt fAiR iF yOu sUbsIdIzE sO mUcH». It's only a free market when corporations in EU and America profit. Free market for me, but not for thee. In just two decades, China has surpassed almost a century of European automobile production. It's actually insane how much they have invested in their EV industry. On the other hand Volkswagen has been busy spending billions on stock buybacks to manipulate their stock prices, instead of investing into their technology and actually innovating. A large part of their production is also not in Germany, but in China. Laughable. Everyone can see how the prices of their vehicles are going up, but the quality is not only following suit but going down. Difference between this years model and previous years is minimal, usually with a little bit more range and a few gimmicks. It is not China that is killing European and American car production. It is incompetent management and lack of innovation that is making them unable to compete. Years of capitalist policies has made the industry outsource the production in a failed attempt to increase efficiency and save cost, but at the cost of innovation and manufacturing capacity at home. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.

[@MikePrice888]

Agree with most of point. However, China does not play fair on the market subsidizing their cars. Eventually it will kill the EUs manufacturers. Unfortunately, German brands missed that point or closed eyes for too long and now they have to choose between bad and even worse options, where one is increase taxes

[@christophersinclair6155]

Thanks Thomas for an informative and interesting talk you,have done your research extremely well the only problem is no Leah.😊

[@ParvezHalim]

Interesting. Please do more of these videos

[@vancity2349]

Great video and information. Can you do a video on the billions the US, Canadian and other governments spend every year subsidizing the oil and gas industry?

[@autogefuehl]

Cheers!

[@JanHenrik541]

I wonder what will happen in my country, Norway, that doesn’t have import tax on Chinese EVs. Will traditional Europe brands maintain their market foothold with a new Chinese brand entering every other month? And Xpeng, MG and BYD becoming more established? It will be interesting years.

[@pezamemija7621]

Everybody can make an electric appliance, but only few knew how to make cars like Germans did. And what have they done, they shot themselves in a knee trying to compete in electric appliances business, lost all the advantages they had over everybody else that allowed them to charge premiums, now they produce the same shit as Chinese but still want premium which is not going to work unfortunately, people are not that dumb anymore. Same with the rest of EU manafacturers. Thats why they need taxes, easy as that.

[@USA-AMERICA-iq6qk]

I agree, I read Russian reviews of Chinese cars because Russia has no access to Western cars anymore and most of them are highly negative, especially after 3,6,12 months of usage. All China did is steal from Tesla (Thanks Ilon for building a gigafactory in China and letting China steal all secrets) and paste/copy similar electric chassis under different brands.

[@jegerm6752]

I dont think european manufacturers have much of a choice. 2035 is only 11 years away, unless the EU decides to delay their EV mandate. Considering how behind european manufacturers are in EV technologies, I think it’s wise to rethink that target.

[@pezamemija7621]

@@jegerm6752 of course they have a choice. They spend millions lobbying around, press the decision makers , you have a lot of tools at your disposal, get rid of that stupid ban. Nothing to lose anyways, either way they are going to get destroyed by Chinese or their own stupid corrupt goverments.

[@TassieLorenzo]

I'm not sure making appliances is that easy! Swedish washing machine brand Asko was sold to Chinese company Hisense as Asko was not profitable... TBH while a Bosch washer-heat pump dryer or Panasonic washer-heat pump dryer is not as complicated as a car, it's still fairly complicated. It needs good engineering and strict quality control to deliver a product that can work for 10+ years with zero issues as Panasonic washer-dryers do.

[@pezamemija7621]

@@TassieLorenzo lol dude you missed the whole point. But ok :)

[@IREWolfman]

EVs are not worth it. Batteries aren't reliable. My neighbour has to wait 2 months to get her BYD Seal back as it needs a replacement battery.

[@notagain2856]

It can happen to ICE cars too. Just look at how long owners need to wait to get replacement for Toyota's 3.3 V6 and Hyundai's 2.0/2.4 engines. Nissan's CVT replacement need quite a while too depending on country

[@martintokinaga5261]

I don't think the full pictures are discussed here. I want to add a few points 1) In 1980, the car industries are nowhere near the automation of today. So the no. of the working force did matter a lot. In 1980, Japan population 117m. US population 227m. So it is surely easy to see a few policies here plus some subsidies here and there can save the US car industries back then. In 2023, US population 334m, China 1422m. Just this simple comparison (not the whole comparison), China with its manufacturing ability built up in the last 40 years can drown US and Europe industries. 2) China produced 30 million cars in 2023 and is expected to produce a lot more in 2024. China has the ability to flood the whole world market and send many US and European workers unemployed. (if you let them in). 3) There are 50+ EV markers in China now. Most of them except BYD and Geely are marking a loss. I just came across a car show in HK. The Zeekr X (a Geely sub brand) with 430hp and can do 0-100 in 3.8 secs cost only 30K Euros. In mainland China, it cost at least 10 percent less further. Another example is Orca. It is like less than 20K Euros. 4) Before Elon Mask build the Shanghai Giga factories, the EV industries is of low existence. China gave Tesla a very very attractive deal with the catch that they need to source their parts locally. With such policies, China developed their supporting structures extremely quickly. And then within 1-2 years, we saw very technologically advanced EV coming out from China. There is no Union and basically the whole manufacturing industries are gearing to support EV. Even recently Elon Musk said US needs tariff to protect its dying car industries (other than Tesla). It was the Shanghai factory can help Tesla to achieve its production target. The workers there basically cannot refuse overtime work. How is that possible in the Berlin and the Texas Giga factories. If you look at the points above, (which I know is not a full list) can send your politicians into panic.

[@medmax6978]

Autogefühl podcast when? 🤔

[@barr96]

The EU import taxes will be the nail in the coffin for the likes of mercedes and VW 😅

[@davidkeenan5989]

Very informative!

[@MrDeathSmack]

Yes please, more videos like this

[@markmd9]

I heard that they are negotiating with China on the variant that Chinese manufacturers will increase voluntarily the prices their EVs exported in Europe and there won't be need on adding taxes.

[@pezamemija7621]

@@markmd9 wow what a shitshow. And this will benefit regular people how? Disgusting behaviour by EU goverments

[@michelleBSkiLLz]

The car industry currently is under transformation and it's hard to compete the race when we are experiencing what is known as the Fourth Industrial Revolution. It's clearly visible that EU delayed the development activities before COVID, but since 2021, the EU investing ~60-70billions per year in car's R&D development as well, the real results expected to be significantly visible on the public roads in 2025-2026 or even later. In my opinion that EU car makers will produce cars, it will not collapse, but we will see more new car makers names who are capable to propose good solutions with competitive prices and new solutions. Also the need/demand of cars with traditional engines is also be higher, as those cars are cheaper on the start and easier to handle in their regions.

[@davidfowles1252]

Good evening Thomas (just tuning in after a long day of DIY !) The big worry here is that we know that China subsidises all cars sold abroad however even if you removed these their vehicles would still be cheaper thna those in the West. Unlike western industries that out sourced and sub-contracted so many components companies like BYD own pretty much their entire supply chain so there is no profit required until the end product. Tariffs never work they just delay the inevitable and we know the German car industry would suffer more from tit for tat trade wars. In the UK we have little car industry less and many foreign owned factories have moved away so we have no benefit form adding tariffs and hopefully we will get some better deals. Legacy car manufacturers will suffer as they try to juggle ICE vehicle manufacturer and the lobbies behind it while the world moves onto EV's

[@richardlabeja]

BYD was the official car sponsor at Euro 2024 football tournament which was hosted in Germany. How did that happen?

[@autogefuehl]

Money 😄

[@josipmatic4732]

With electric you have much less to service and that is also big part of less tax in goverment pockets!

[@urban94]

I like how the camera isn't stationary

[@johnderrick2501]

Well done! More of these background stories please.

[@dxelson]

the thing is, even if germany subsidized the same ammount of money, they still wouldnt be able to compete with chinese EV tech. Chinese car market is very competetive, the germans are not surviving the Chinese market with their legacy cars

[@Just-a-guy926]

Honda was the first Japanese manufacturer to produce cars in the United States in 1982.

[@cbotten106]

As a direct result of the "voluntary import restrictions" that Congress had put in place previously. Otherwise, that factory wouldn't have been built...well, that soon at least.

[@gregorygant4242]

Thomas I am always seeing your reviews of cars and I think the car industry in general is going through a big shakeup especially in Europe . I don't think the premium German brands have much to worry about in the long term maybe only in the short term, I do think the German staple "average" brands have a lot to worry about though from these cheaper Chinese brands invading Europe they will definitely steal European customers away from their own brands to the Chinese ones. I hope European manufactures can avoid this by offering more affordable prices for normal folks or some type of tax breaks , I don't know. Anyway a cool review Thomas , Have a good one , Ciao , ciao !

[@ccapitanu]

A lot of chinese bots in these comments...we should prefer to pay more for phones, clothes, toys, cars, etc. and have them made in Europe, by people that get paid a fair salary, and are treated well, and replace the things less often, fighting for "right to repair" laws. If the new cars are too expensive, keep your old car, and that will push down prices. The only problem here is that the taxes are added only on EVs, it should be on all consumer products made outside EU, and probably also on outsourcing work to China and India. But people are now used to having a new car every 2 years, a new phone every year, and new crappy clothes every week.

[@Ithiilien]

Shame idiots like you are allowed to share opinions. You call others bots, yet claim "we have better" things then Chinese products that are at same tier level. Lately in last 5 to 10 years all western products are suffering greatly on the side of quality in terms of longevity, they upgraded quality in terms of technology and things used but at the same time cut corners on everything longevity related, yet somehow you don't see that and defend shitty overpriced products we can get that need swapping after every few years... Quality in terms of what they are upgrading in technology does not equal quality in longevity of product.... If you don't buy a new phone every 2 years your battery will drain in like half a day and before you could just buy a new battery and even if you wanted to do that it would be for a phone that lasted 5 years already.... Every new car starts having issues after several years and needs changing of many things on it since parts are made to go for roughly around 100k km before needing replacement, I used to drive an Accord from 2008 that went on to 250k before needing any changes (outside of regular services) bought it brand new. If you don't see those as issues in quality then you should really take a brain check...

[@TassieLorenzo]

In fields like engineering, salaries are not particularly low in China any more.

[@notagain2856]

Then, play fair and dont just impose higher tax on products from China. Impose higher tax on products from US and see how Uncle Sam react

[@Aiantaschr]

I agree with you. The EU should support its market more, but unfortunately when the prices of things have gone up 2 and 3 times, and you NEED to buy a car, with your humble, non inflation adjusted salary, you will buy the cheapest and okay quality thing available!

[@ccapitanu]

But if you really need to buy a new car right now(for whatever reason), it does not have to be an EV(yet). I do agree there should be more affordable EU made EVs too..I do think those are coming, Dacia, Skoda, maybe others.

[@michielshub]

China has a huge ev production overcapacity due to over subsidizing by the CN covernment and they are dumping these cars on the global market. It is not a fair level playing field and tarifs are justified.

[@diegoyuiop]

I hope the ICE car ban will be eventually lifted. With electric cars Europe cannot compete, but with ICE it can because China bet everything on electricity and has no experience or knowledge with ICE cars

[@maxxahate5424]

I don't think you and the EU understand the threat. UA has no import taxes on EV vehicles. Using this opportunity, I've bought one for myself: a new, 0km VW ID.4 Pro from China with a large 84KW battery, IQ.light, leather seats, memory package, travel assist, 360 cameras, and a panoramic roof. FOR 27k EUR! Check out how much it will cost in DE. If EU makers want to remain alive EU should build a wall for the Chinese EV. The price of a Chinese electric vehicle (EV) is entirely uncompetitive and is heavily subsidized by the government.