Euchre-Defending Against Loner Hands

Strategy video giving you the correct way to play against a loner and improving your odds at stopping it.

[@Wolfinator234]

Great filming set up. Very clear to see the cards and clear speaking and explanations

[@christinenazareth-haupt2758]

Great tips Mike! Thanks

[@Wolfinator234]

You didn't mention what I would consider the main reason to not lead an ace : if the ace would have won the first trick, then it would be just as good on the fifth trick, so there is no rush to play it . Instead you can use the first trick to help your partner out. And leading the low card helps your partner because they might have two high cards of different suits, so by playing one of them now, they don't get stuck having to 50/50 discard on the fourth trick

[@marieippolito1620]

Just to be clear... when the loner played the jack of spades (which is really the 2nd highest card) they took that trick!

[@AlyssaBeckrhp]

appreciate the info!

[@robtanniru6561]

You picked a bit of a strange hand example in your first example because our partner has double protected Ace so it doesn't really matter what we do, we'll stop their euchre. And it would actually be a mistake for the partner to try and trump the Td because it might unprotect their Ace.

[@maumaumau59]

Michael I appreciate your taking the time and effort to discuss a Euchre topic. However, your analysis was both misleading and wrong. For now let's just focus on the card play to defend a loner. I find this maxim to hold true, "Never lead a lone ace vs. a loner." (The lone exception being if all you have is a single suit and/or trump.) Why does that work? The answer is simple: your singleton Ace will always be good! If your opponent has that suit, taking the trick at the end will happen just as often as if you lead it to start. So by leading an (off-ace) suit you give your partner a chance to trump in and/or take the trick with his Ace; that might not happen if you don't lead it and your opponent takes control and strips out trump. Furthermore, if your partner has both other off-suit Aces, and you start with your Ace - it's quite likely that on the 4th trick your partner will be forced to decide which possible winning Ace to throw away. Imagine how unhappy your partner will be with that unnecessary decision. Lastly you stated that if you had "2 off-suit Aces and say a low card in the other suit you should lead that low card", this is very much wrong. With 2 Aces lead an ace, and of course if it doesn't take a trick right away you have a shot with the other Ace.

[@LilMuumuu]

Agreed. I appreciate the enthusiasm from others to make content about card games but there are some mistakes in this video - especially when holding two aces. Lead one right away when you hold two aces. If you lead low and it gets trumped, which ace will you throw away on the 4th trick when the loner leads trump?

[@jlicious4470]

All you do in the 1st scenario is order up as a block as you have no stopper. Much easier.

[@dancollins4425]

Question... In the 9 to 6 game, why would a player having the left bower guarded order up the right bower and "be a hero"? I don't see what's to be gained. Seems to me you'll be set and give the other team 2 points. Why not let the dealer go alone and make them earn the 1 point....further he'll have to do so alone.

[@nsimpson76]

I’m confused at 9:42 why you are saying to order up if you have left and a protector card. If you order you are set and that’s a two point loss… if you let them order up loner you stop it for a 1 point loss. Please explain

[@donnajean6398]

Hi Mike, I am a beginner and I've started playing offline and online with Karma euchre app. I think I'm doing ok except I get nervous playing online. I read somewhere that it's usually good to lead a high card. But my experience in offline games seems like a low card works best like you describe for defeating loners. Can you explain? I like demonstrations with real cards because it's slower, easier for a novice to grasp. Thanks!

[@michaelross-euchrecoaching4875]

Good afternoon Donna, I’d first suggest that you download Euchre 3D. I’ve played practically all the apps and non are as good as this one. It’s also really nice because it rates you when your playing online so when you start out you play with others that are just starting out as well. So hopefully this gets rid of some of your jitters. As you get better, you will play with more experienced players in a slow progression. Or if you don’t get better you’ll still play with the beginner players until you get the skills necessary to progress.

[@michaelross-euchrecoaching4875]

As for playing high or low cards, it really depends. But against loners it’s rec that you play whatever you have a single suit of, except if it’s an Ace, you want to keep that till the end. If your ace is going to stop them anyway it will stop them on the last trick no matter what, so you might as well give your partner an opportunity to trump one of your suits in hopes that your opponent has the Ace of that suit (that you didn’t but had some lower suits). Hope this helps, I’m trying to get more content out there but I’ve been stuck home quarantined with my kids so I haven’t had the time. Let me know if I can be a bit more informative. Thanks for the question. I’ll try to always respond. Look forward to speaking with you again. -Mike

[@goolick]

The seat right of the dealer has the dealer stopped anyway because he has 3 trump including the ace... double protected ace is a guaranteed trick against a loner. I wouldn't lead the ace of hearts here either (since I want something to save for the final trick) but I'm not going to purposely lead my lowest card. If i had two aces, I'd lead one of them.

[@Eadweard76]

I don't think you are taking into consideration of the dealers partner. Sure the dealer has the advantage of adding trump and short suiting themselves with a discard. However the dealers partner in seat 2 has powerful information as to where the right bauer is and is a possible loner threat as well. So for the opponents to properly defend against a possible loner at a close out score of 9-6/9-7. Wouldn't it be the first opponent to the dealers left aka 1st seat. To actually give the order for the donate?

[@michaelross-euchrecoaching4875]

Hey Edward, So I think if we took a step back and analyzed the situation a bit we could get the odds/statistics favoring the person in seat 3 to make the donate call only. A few reasons is this: Yes, seat 2 could have some information regarding the right and left, however, seat 2 is a more difficult spot in general to complete a loner secondary to not being the first or last to act during the round and also does not have the ability to thin their hand out. Not to mention they have to guess the ballpark strength of seat 3 and still play around seat 1's (hopefully outstanding) fundamental play. Yes, if the person in seat 1 leads out an A (which is a mistake) and seat 2 can easily trump and start leading, positioning doesn't matter much, however if everyone at the table is playing correctly including seat 1 and leads a non A card, this is exactly why seats 2/3 have a greater disadvantage completing a loner. Seat 2 has the difficult choice of attempting to figure out how high of a trump to play which would give them the trick and ability to work down and take the rest for the 4 points. This does pose a difficult decision if calling a loner with a weaker holding. I like odds. With all the disadvantages of calling loners in seat 2 and 3 and not to mention the trouble you could possibly get into with scoring (maybe not so much on a 9/6 preempt call, but 9/7??? if you get euchred unnecessarily you'd be going into the final hand 9/9-yes you would have the deal and anyone would love to have the game in their hands like that, but what do you start doing if its not 9/6 or 9/7 game and instead 8/6 or 8/7? Especially if your partner had an easy stopper (what if they had the J, or Left J-9 combo). I'm all about trying to teach and educate a good foundational approach to the game. Both basic and advanced play. Yes, you could more rationally preempt call on a 9/6 board and/or if they dealt up a J and/or you know your partner in seat 3 wont make the donate call. But this is all about trust building with your partner, this is higher level stuff that changes the foundation of the way this game is played, especially in competitive circles. Detouring to much from an already hyper aggressive playstyle might not sit so well with others. I always account for scenarios like this and if my partner in seat 1 orders up the donate I always look at the score and what they ordered up. And if its not any of those above scenarios, I'll call them out for not trusting me to make my call, and then this usually results in me playing differently cause I don't know if they don't understand some of the more complex fundamentals of the game.

[@Eadweard76]

@@michaelross-euchrecoaching4875 Thanks for the detailed response.

[@kingrex1931]

1:03 His advice on Aces is incorrect. The reason you don't lead an Ace if you only have one Ace is that your partner could have the other two Aces and you would force them to make a choice on the fourth trick. If they throw the wrong Ace away on the fourth trick, which is a 50/50 proposition, the loner gets through. You would just hold your lone Ace for the fifth trick in this scenario. If you have two aces against a loner, you should always lead one of those two aces and hold the other ace for the final trick. This way you aren't forced to make the choice on the fourth trick. This guy is somehow assuming that all loners will be four trump cards plus an offsuit ace, which isn't all that likely. Maybe he plays with overly conservative players, but most people would go alone with far less than what he is assuming. 4:34 The second scenario, where both have three trump cards, is the correct strategy, but would be quite rare to come up against. This would not be an "extremely aggressive" loner call either, which makes me believe that he plays abnormally conservative euchre players. The hand shown here, with both bowers, a third trump and Ace King suited offsuit should be called alone every single time. The odds of getting euchred would be astronomical. In this scenario all the cards had to fall right and have to be played perfectly and the person calling it alone still makes a point. 7:20 The third scenario you would want to order up the Jack and hope to win on the next hand. He is once again wrong in his advice. The seat in the lead should order up the Jack, as passing by the seat in the lead is the signal for the partner to pass too. The person in the lead passes is him saying that he has the stopper, which would be the protected Left Bower. His "rule" where you can't order up trump without a trump card wouldn't matter, as you would only be penalized two points for reneging under that rule and you are basically handing your opponent two points to prevent a loner anyways. 9:51 Bad advice once again. This scenario should ONLY be ordered up if you are leading 9-6 or 9-7. If you are tied at 6-6 or leading 6-5, you are basically handing your opponent the lead out of fear. Getting Euchred for no good reason other than fear is a bad idea. Playing like this will lose you far more games than it will save on the off chance your opponent has a loner that they would get through. It wouldn't need to be a Jack in this scenario either, just an unstoppable suit.

[@thepooz7205]

Agreed on all of your points. Glad you addressed them so I didn’t have to make the effort typing it all out! Pretty impressive he got so many things wrong in a single video.

[@jasonlowery1307]

Agree w Michael Urban. If you have two off suite aces you need to lead one of them. No exceptions. Most loner attempts are marginal. If you only have one then don't lead it (as you indicated).

[@gregoverall5887]

Agreed, lead one of the two aces. That way you don't get stuck deciding which ace to keep for the last trick.

[@JFresh1977]

I think one point that's important to mention is to consider the number of cards in each suit. Using the first scenario as an example and let's say we don't know what anyone else has, we have 9H, QH, AH of , 10S, 10D) and the loner is the last to play. We want to minimize the risk of allowing them to play a low trump card and then running away with the rest of the hand so I want to minimize the risk of playing a card that they can trump. It's important to know that you hold 50% (3/6) of the hearts in your hand. With loner hands one can generally assume their opponent is 2 suited at best so the odds of them having a Heart are pretty slim so that rules out playing a Heart. Next you have the 10S - this is the same color of your opponent's loner hand which means there's only 5 cards in that suit instead of the six for the red suits and 7 for the trump suit so you are holding 1/5 (20%) of the cards of that suit. Finally, that leaves the 10 of diamonds. There are six of these and you have only one of them(1/6 = 16.667%). Odds are best that your opponent has a diamond as their second suit. Given that your diamond is also a low card it becomes the obvious play. Finally, many loners are decided at the last trick where the loner player reveals what their off suit is (if any). It's extremely important to save your off Aces for this moment so that you can take the trick if possible.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

1:23 I see you gave S3 a loner too. Often when there is a loner in a hand somebody else has one too. Was that deliberate or did you deal the rest of the cards randomly? 3:16 you're partner has a natural stopper (three trump A high) is a natural stopper just as a protected left is. Wouldn't it be smarter for them to throw off here? Trumping in is risking letting the loner win. If I was S3 here I'd throw out the KH here. However if it was A,K,x you could play the high trump and still have a natural stopper and possibly euchre. If the caller is within range of winning it would be idiotic to risk natural stopper here 8:56 you're incorrect again here. It's just as possible dealer's partner has the club loner. It's absolutely on left of dealer to make this call. If you pass your partner has every reason to assume you have a natural stopper and can safely pass. I'd get very frustrated being your partner.

[@kingrex1931]

Not only is he passing when the Jack is up on the kitty and he is in the barn, but he advocates ordering it up in scenarios where you shouldn't even consider it, like leading 6-5

[@user-mz5rs3pi2o]

This is not a good example. Seat 4, I think, has the stopper guaranteed. They would never risk getting over trumped. Just let the dealer get it. Plays both bowers and bam, ace trump is the highest. Done. Again bad example, get the point but the set up gotta be better