EUROVISION 2024 - One Week Later: The most controversial Year ?et

[@Werderina]

I have rather mixed feelings about Joost Klein. Often things are not black or white and aggressive behaviour always depends on the context. We simply don’t know enough and if we listen only to one version we might not get the full truth. So many posts are like : Joost didn’t do anything, there was a provocation. Still I have no reason to make him a matyre or the victim. His fans will defend him anyways. On the other hand: if the EBU was wrong, will they ever admit this? I guess it’s very likely that the Netherlands want to withdraw from the contest. And this is really sad.

[@Lawrence.Laurentius]

It is very difficult to judge cause we dont know what exactly happened. Last minute disqualification was very shocking and EBU should have communicated with the public in a more transparent way.

[@marcelrenes2435]

What I find interesting is that the EBU said it was a FEMALE employee. That suggest some sexual abuse must have happened. For what other reason would they emphasise this specifficly? Like, if it happened to a male employee there would have been no incident?

[@cloakedwanderer4283]

The fact that you can vote for the same song 20 times is just asking for people to abuse the system to boost a song for reasons other than its musical quality. They should really limit it to 1 vote per song.

[@charmedx3219]

That's so idiotic, I always use my 20 votes to spread my love around. It makes me feel more equal to juries because I can give 10 to my favourite and 5 to my second favourite and 3 to my third and my last two points to my other top fives.

[@Cassie_kitten90]

@@charmedx3219 not everyone spreads the love like you do. If that was the case, I****l wouldn’t have finished 2nd in televotes

[@Eggplant_Emoji]

I’d actually suggest that a max 12 votes go to one song and the remaining 8 to whichever other songs. For example, 12pts to Croatia, 3pts Italy, 2pts Ireland, 3pts Latvia. Or 12pts to Croatia, 8pts Australia. Etc. This means they can give maximum votes to their fave songs but they also have to give some to someone else.

[@Redlingstein]

@@Cassie_kitten90Israël deserved 2nd in televote! It was a beautiful performance

[@jimw859]

I'd agee. Maybe 3 or 4 so that people can vote for more than 1 entry if they really like a few songs. But 20 is very much open to abuse as was very clear this year.

[@bergbloem]

Great show again! Another example of the double standards of the EBU: the German contestant had to remove the word shit from his song and during the final flag parade they played a song with the word shit in it, which was audible during his entrance. Very ironic! Yes, it was a shitshow...

[@Werderina]

Wasn’t only shit from Germany 😂

[@Lawrence.Laurentius]

Definitely chaotic EBU. We need changes

[@lindonesc]

@ESCUNITED Did you adress anywhere in the (very long) video the fact that the delegations of Germany and Austria did not complain about anything? Even the disastrous camera issues and angles during the Austrian performance wasn't addressed by the Austrians.

[@annnee6818]

Why is that relevant? There's no doubt the complaints were justified, There's video of harrassment going on and the press delegations complained too. Maybe not everyone got harrassed to the same degree

[@xGameDragonx]

@@annnee6818Do you know what harassments came from the other delegations? ;) Bet you don’t! But the truth may come up one day. There‘s a reason why EBU keeps quiet. It wasn’t only one delegation who harassed other people (apart from that it was only one and he had to leave). There were different artists and delegations not behaving appropriately. Stop blaming it on only one country.

[@Werderina]

Weren‘t there not enough complaints? 😂 it’s like a Contest of complaints, justified or not. Sometimes it’s possible and preferable to see the bigger picture and focus on what is (still) good.

[@xGameDragonx]

@@Werderina I personally believe in the good and in a MUSIC contest without artists bullying another artist because she is from a certain country. Eden did not harass anyone. If at all, it was her delegation. But Eden was bullied by other ARTISTS, which is unacceptable behavior. From what I‘ve heard this is the reason the EBU stays quiet. The artists' behavior gave the contest a bad name. People did protest votes pro Eden because they felt pity of what other artists did to her. The artists should never show such behavior. In one point, people were right: EBU has to take care to protect the artists. They did not do this at all. Not only those artists who complained (Joost, Bambie etc.) but also Eden. They did not protect Eden from the harassment by other artists and they did not protect each (!) delegation, also the Israeli one, from other delegations. Both sides shown unacceptable behavior. BOTH. Israeli AND other delegations. There is proof so before people are demanding consequences for the Israeli deleg, they should better stay quiet. From what I‘ce heard from reliable sources the misbehavior was vice versa. Only because there are no videos of other delegations going after the Israeli RIGHT NOW doesn’t mean there aren’t any! ;) I‘m sure the truth will be published the next months! Mark my words! ;)

[@Eggplant_Emoji]

Gods Bless Television Slovenia!!

[@lbriganti514]

Please do lives watching old contests!I'm really wanting to start watching them and it would be fin to watch them while watching the live stream

[@jimw859]

To be honest with you I'm not optimistic about any change happening in the EBU. I think they will hope that this all discussion peters out as we get further from the event. The EBU clearly does not like criticism and it wouldn't surprise me if they attempted to blame fans and potentially fan blog sites for the atmosphere that grew up around Eurovision 2024. I fear that under increasing scrutiny the EBU will act to curtail fan access to the Eurovision next year so that they can further centralise their control over the event and any narratives that arise during the rehearsals.

[@ar50000]

Deffo.

[@annnee6818]

Agreed.

[@matchalatte42]

Sadly I can see this happening 😢

[@ar50000]

Then it's up to the broadcasters to keep pushing for change. They have the money. They should threaten to pull out.

[@marcelrenes2435]

The Netherlands and Norway are seriously thinking of stepping out. And remember, The Netherlands is the 6th big contributor of the ESC!

[@hanslagewaard5083]

The Swedish authorities take much longer to come to what at worst will be a much lesser penalty. The EBU is literally ff-ed already.

[@annnee6818]

"It's not like the olympics" Bro never has watched a Russian figure skate I see

[@Eva-S-L]

I'm still not quite happy that we don't acknowledge televote winner. If you don't do the math yourself, you don't even know who was televote favorite

[@annnee6818]

They always tell you? There's numbers and one is the highest?

[@Eva-S-L]

@@annnee6818 you didn't understand me. I'm saying that they acknowledge jury winner but there is never a word- congratulations, Croatia, you won the televote - even after all points are told. Maybe I haven't heard it because of commentators but still

[@ar50000]

It was vital that Roy and Gabe should have been in this video. I really wanted to hear what Roy has to say!

[@yodenman]

Yes. Good point. He must have some input.

[@rinjoo3]

I think some rules need to be changed related to partipication so that the Israel situation will not happen again (even though i personally don't like banning countries based on political events, unless the country decides to use the partipication as tool for political aims instead of just partipicating for music). Not sure what would be enought good and neutral method though. Perhaps if both sides of the conflict agree, the partipication can happen? (since if totally all conflicts would cause partipication not allowed, then Armenia and Azer would probably not be allowed to join either, even if they both would like to participate regardless of the conflict beetween them).

[@annnee6818]

Israel did use the contest as a soft power move and the EBU cowtowed. Revolting spectacle, very undignified. Hope Osterdahl gets canned.

[@Frederic1406]

@@annnee6818 Do you also realise that Ukraine heavily used the show also for political reasons? The staging with the missiles in the sky and also the armour of Jerry and her big image as a statue of victory just after the rap are all military themed. They ended SF1 performance with "thams for standing with Ukraine!". Just at a moment when Ukraine struggles to keep the engagement of its army on the front, extending the duration of soldiers on the front line as well as forcefully recruiting non military male in the civil population. This staging was pure Ukrainian army propaganda. But we "like" it because they are doing war against the nemesis of Western nations so we find it epic. You could call political also the non binary representation. Don't you think this is a huge political statement for countries like Azerbaijan or Georgia or Armenia? Or the UK staging? We take for granted that LGBTQ representation is cool and natural but it is a huge political statement for many conservative and religious countries. At the same time we want Turkey or Hungary back in the competition...

[@lorifrancis8171]

​@@Frederic1406I agree 💯. The problem is the definition of "soft power" is subjective. It sounds like a cop-out for someone's personal biases. In ESC fan media, the rule should be "if EBU allows, we'll cover it." Anything else is activism. There can be other conversations, such as the lack of transparency from the EBU, responsibilities of delegations, responsibilities of performing artists, which would be much more productive. Heck, even conversations about voting practices could be more helpful.

[@Frederic1406]

@@lorifrancis8171 Spot on!!

[@Frederic1406]

Matt, thanks for your wise comments. However there are more things that should be addressed in my opinion. 1) Fan media and active fans online (particularly on Twitter) are extremely non plural. Cancel culture has infiltrated everywhere and we are all victims of that. The way Eden personified all the horror of Israel for the fans was bullying to me. Everyone knows that it was a must to treat her as a radioactive toxic thing and stay sway from her, if you had an inclusive gesture towards her you risked a huge backlash. We could talk about the Cha Cha Cha dance of Kaarija and her backstage, Kaarija was smiling and careless but then huge outrage started once the video was published. He had to make a statement of non endorsement + he withdrew from giving the jury points. Active fans and fan press on Twitter act as a moral police, demanding everyone to stick to the agenda. The stakes are too high here, the lack of an adult mature treatment of the Gaza conflict and its impact on ESC is really lacking. This leads everyone to act as the champion of Palestine or make vain and vague calls for peace (Imagine by John Lennon etc) or explain after the show how traumatic it was to be close to Israel. That appears as (at least in part) calculated statements made to please the cancel culture police. 2) Joost appeared as erratic to me in all the time leading to ESC shows. Fans hail him as a hero for many reasons (his song about Europe when he really talks about three or four clichés about the big Western European countries, excluding the rest of the continent + his standing against Israel in the press conference). I do feel he is not the hero everyone expects. There are certain things about his behaviour that make me think of a bigger conflict with EBU coming from previous weeks (he had no A little bit more videos on KZbin for example). And to see everyone finding excuses for him for the violent incident that led to a police complaint is incredible to me. In any other circumstances it would have been "I stand against violence, zero tolerance, abuse is not the way etc". Here, on account of his "vulnerability" after performing this song for 147th time probably, he is excused to be aggressive and violent when exiting the stage. I think that hus relationship of conflict with the EBU and his attitude have not started just with this incident. I think the unprecedented decision to exclude him was based on much more toxic facts. As you say, there is not enough details in the EBU communication for us to have a better understanding. 3) The anti booing was to avoid bullying. Without it there may have been even more compassion votes for Israel. Fans should reflect in their behaviour. The stage director had to make a speech saying that he never sae such bad attitude. There was really a lack of maturity in the way the boycott was expressed. Fans and fan media were pissed that none of their strategy work: IL was not disqualified, the Palestinian singer in Iceland lost to Hera, there was no stage invader, no security risk that was not addressed, Eden performed live when many hiped she would sing with a rehearsal video only, she qualified for the final... All this frustration form fans that none of the expected safeguards worked resulted in this bad booing attitude. To me the issue comes from Russia expulsion with tge comment of the disrepute. Fans loved that a "bad" country got a serious immediate sanction. But now we demand that on more occasions like Israel or Azerbaijan. This contest has lost too many countries on the road, countries that Western people do not want to understand: Turkey, Hungary, Russia, Belarus... We are really reducing thr diversity and are not able to be united by music. We all must make an effort to understand the others.

[@annnee6818]

Cancel culture isn't really a thing. It's just free speech you personally don't happen to like... but that's not how the world works. You'll have to suck it up.

[@jacob4448]

I totally agree with this. No matter your belief on Israel-Palestine, no one should act how people did towards Eden. No one deserves the horrible treatment she got online

[@Ogeroigres]

@@annnee6818 Cancel culture sure is a thing, very typical of those leaning more to the left (especially hard left). I'm a leftist myself but I'm not blind.

[@JustYetAnotherUser]

Amazing piece of reading. 👏👏👏

[@jordanwilson6490]

Hit the nail on the head with this! The fans are so toxic and think they should have the power to control what happens in the contest and they complain and bully ppl when they don’t get their way.

[@Louise_Palmer]

I love how moderate and fair you are!

[@lorifrancis8171]

I really want to believe in Matt's fairness. At the same time, I find Gabe to be very, very problematic. I wish Matt better understood/took action because what Gabe did on his personal channel has impacted the ESC United team. Gabe deliberately went from fan media to activist. I don't think that is where Matt wants to go. Matt's sense of fairness could truly shine. It's bothersome to think Matt's loyalty to his team would cloud a bigger picture. Also, in regards to Jan Bors, who Matt brought up in the video. Jan was also fair and has been very critical of several elements of the 2024 contest, with which Matt would find agreement. Jan was not critical of just one element (fan media), but also critical of.the EBU, delegations, and of the actions of artists. All were.true this year. We can all agree important conversations need to happen before ESC 2025 gets much further underway. My fear is they won't happen, so things will not be much better for ESC 2025.

[@antonylara1691]

Can you share your thoughts and view about Spain entry. Especially with the term zorra and the staging?

[@hanslagewaard5083]

Thanks for the review. A bit wishy washy at times. But at least you don't appear to just get a backstage pass.

[@marcelrenes2435]

This whole contest was one big disaster. Thanks to the EBU. Everything they decided on or did'nt was the wrong call. If you have to a crisis meeting just before the final, ingore all the complaints of the many delegations, disqualify a country without telling what exactly happened etc, I fear for 2025. It really was a sh*tshow. 😢😢 United by music but divided by the EBU.

[@JensCondoMetropolis]

We are all still aware that this is a TV entertainment show right ?. Not to minimize events in the world, but I watch the show for the music, the competition and to get away from all the craziness going on. Yes, suggestions to improve the enjoyment for all should be looked into. I know this comment will be ripped apart, but booting a country for attacking another one and NOT booting a country that WAS attacked is really not comparable. This does not excuse the way the conflict is conducted, but that is maybe not the venue to protest it.

[@Werderina]

I appreciate your comment! 😉

[@mattazmy]

The best way to achieve a democratic result is to get the final ranking from the juries and televoters, and convert them into points to determine the winner. Therefore, the total score from juries and televoters will determine the winner. For example if only top 10 countries from the juries and televoters received the FINAL points, Croatia will receive 8+12=20. Switzerland with 18 (12+6), France with 17 (10+7), Ukraine 14 (6+8), Ireland 10 (5+5) and Armenia with 4 (2+2).

[@mattazmy]

@@margaret-yr6uhIt's too short for an international event.

[@mattazmy]

@@margaret-yr6uh Good suggestion. I wonder when the last time we didn't have semi-finals.

[@oleksandrapoliakova7495]

I honestly like how it is now with all the controversies and stuff, the devoted fans make it seem worse as it is 🥴

[@ar50000]

The fan media are being dissed again today. You need to group together and tell us more about what happened to yourselves and the artists. The broadcasters need to step up too. Just telling us people were being filmed and didn't like it is not enough.

[@yodenman]

Matt. I would love your feedback. The EBU is a union representing its members. Surely if the big five and maybe one or two others had threatened to pull out over Joost, then they would have to back down. People are going on as if the EBU was its own boss. It's not. It exists solely to represent the broadcasters. It's nothing without them.

[@ely03cassandra]

I don’t want to hear from anyone anymore that the juries need to be removed. They saved the contest this year. They could have given Israel a lot of points and then Israel would have won. 😅

[@cameronclarkhull]

It's funny Edward the producer blocked me on twitter for asking why he used the 3-8 hour joke twice... the show was great, but it was one small criticism. Lost a little bit of respect for him

[@babygrogu845]

I’m just wondering whether there will be any Baby Lasagna and Nemo to save the competition next year…

[@EmoBearRights]

Hopefully they'll be no Israel to jeopardise it

[@annnee6818]

​@EmoBearRights hopefully but I'm not confident

[@EmoBearRights]

@@annnee6818 I get that but surely after this shit show this year they can't possibly think they can do another year of this. They won't have a show without artists and no one is going to want to do it.

[@JustYetAnotherUser]

@@EmoBearRights Israel didn't jeopardise it. Obsessed fans and protesters as well as whiny participants did. And EBU too with their poor level of communication.

[@EmoBearRights]

@@JustYetAnotherUser You're about the last part. The rest? If you can't take criticism and label genuine concern for people's lives as being whiny and obsessed then yup that is on you. Also the anti booing tech is like something out of 1984.

[@healthytrout]

reg. tele vote - one can get an esim in 1 min, pay with any country’s credit card in europe and vote 20 time from each of those esims ( prob 3-5 per phone is doable ) is just wild. i like the idea that if one votes they have to vote for three countries not just one. that could be a good change.

[@DramaQueenMalena]

Milka is not Swiss anymore. Like Toblerone it belongs to Mondelez International. But we have Rolex, Swatch/Omega, Lindt, Nestlé (I hope it will never be the sponsor), Ricola. Some banks and the pharma industry. I hope the Swatch Group can be convinced. Biel, the town Nemo is from, is where the headquarters are.

[@ar50000]

Unfortunately there has been another recent video, specifically dissing fans and fan media. Implying tow the line, or you will be excluded. And with comments underneath the video calling for accreditation to be removed and naming names.

[@yodenman]

I'm pleased that Luxembourg weren't jeered and booed. At least fans didn't discriminate against her for being Jewish.

[@deneml3836]

Definitely get rid or reduce the jury it it getting ridiculously biased and corrupt. EBU is deciding the winner

[@jacob4448]

I don’t think removing the jury is a good idea as this was done before and didn’t really work, but I think maybe expanding the Jury so that there are more opinions and genres so that it doesn’t favor a specific pop entry or something like that

[@babygrogu845]

Sure, there were some calculated manipulations by the juries, but no one can deny Nemo were amazing. The fact that they were there allegible to vote for gave the EBU perfect solution to the whole explosion that happened after SF2. Now we have unusual, innovative and musically diverse winning song performed by charismatic singer/songwriter delivering vocally almost perfect performance while simultaneously flawlessly balancing on moving stage prop - and more importantly the winning country is probably one of the most powerful, the most neutral and the most protected countries in the world - the EBU were lucky this time. And the final scenario was relief to a lot of fans. Sadly, we have the juries to thank for this. I am only as Croatian little disappointed for Baby Lasagna - bit still proud and since I am also a fan, I am even more proud than other Croatians, bc they don’t really understand how important was that he eventually won the televote and prevented you-know-who to be televote winner. Baby Lasagna is a hero 😻😻😻🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷

[@jacob4448]

@@babygrogu845 I’m just a bit annoyed because of how stacked Nemo’s jury was because he got 5th in televote and still won

[@annnee6818]

They got it right this time...

[@annnee6818]

​@jacob4448 yes this would make it harder to bribe them. A 5 person jury is a joke just as corrupt as the olympics

[@Addict2FX]

Everytime a good song gets lots of jury votes people cry!

[@AlexEscMorgan]

So marrocan oil is not even marrocan? The deception!

[@annnee6818]

It's actually kinda shocking that the entire contest gets decided by one money source what a joke.

[@JustYetAnotherUser]

So you never thought of reading labels before?...

[@JustYetAnotherUser]

@@annnee6818 Btw it doesnt. Said money source was already giving money in 2022 and Israel didn't even make it to the finals. The big 5 as well as a host country as the main money sources.

[@izharlevy3101]

Slovenia - we don’t care about your concrete questions! Being one of the worst ESC countries no one will miss you if you withdraw

[@marcelrenes2435]

Dutchie here. You are a fool. And now I'm being nice to you..

[@yodenman]

For all those people who are complaining about Israel's inflated televote score. What about the absurdly low jury score. Disgraceful.

[@regulusarcturus]

Absurdly low? It came 12th with the jury, which is pretty great for such a basic song.

[@Eggplant_Emoji]

How about we get a global sponsor who has no bias? McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut?? They’re just examples and I know some will have issues with my examples but none of those have any interests in the competition.

[@annnee6818]

Yes agreed. Or just a ton of sponsors

[@JustYetAnotherUser]

Aren't those in the pro-palestinian b-cott list? I might be wrong tho...

[@katiaViPo]

NEMO the best❤️✨✨✨✨✨

[@Dim4323]

Olly sucks 0 points indeed his performance was off, his staging was a dirty shower. And i expected jigsaw from saw gonna pop out

[@jefson875]

Bla bla bla boring

[@Markstubation01]

The EBU wanted Israel to win

[@Patrick.V.]

DEF. not! lol

[@babygrogu845]

Actually, they were desperate for Israel (I might say Ukraine also) not to win, just look where they put them in GF, 6th in the running order, while all the favourites were 20th to 24th. EBU knew Israel winning would be the beginning of end of ESC, so they had to do some damage control.

[@Redlingstein]

No TELEVOTE wanted Israel to be 2nd. We wanted Croatia to win and Israel 2nd. Deal with it

[@jacob4448]

@@babygrogu845also Juries have Israel, a song that seemed very jury friendly to me, around 50 points. To me this is very influenced possibly because of the EBU and possibly because of fear of people coming after them

[@Patrick.V.]

@@jacob4448 That is exactly why the jury vote was low!