EV Motor Mania: The Strengths & Weaknesses of Induction vs Permanent Magnet

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Munro Live

Munro Live

Күн бұрын

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@briansilver9652
@briansilver9652 10 ай бұрын
Retired Electronic Tech, Industrial Electrician here. I wish Paul had been my instructor when learning these concepts. His analogies and clear explanations of electromagnetic theory as applied to rotary motors is very well done. A great refresher for us old dogs. I would love to hear an explanation of the use of each type of motor in regen mode. Thanks!
@eightysevenmoore
@eightysevenmoore 10 ай бұрын
Regen mode is huge! In automotive it’s used to slow the vehicle down while turning that kinetic energy back into stored energy in the battery. current Hybrid Technology Prototype-Lab: Performance Dyno SME. BorgWarner.
@robertcase4995
@robertcase4995 10 ай бұрын
Absolutely. Wish I had paul teaching my EE courses.
@babyschuerman
@babyschuerman 10 ай бұрын
Just a layman here but also love his style of explaining the principles and practical use on the subject 👍
@2ndfloorsongs
@2ndfloorsongs 10 ай бұрын
Yes, what an excellent analogy and clear explanation. I want to see more of this guy. I'm not so interested in the inverters (though maybe that's because I know a lot about them), but I'm very interested in more detailed description and differences of construction and the uses of these motors. Also, not that I think it's essential, but I'd just love to see his explanation of three-phase power. I'd like to see him extend the analogy of the stadium placards in an understandable way.
@gregbailey45
@gregbailey45 10 ай бұрын
​@@babyschuerman*layman...
@Fryguy101
@Fryguy101 10 ай бұрын
You asked if anybody would be interested in learning more about inverters... Absolutely! Especially if it's as solid and in depth as this video!
@gtjack9
@gtjack9 10 ай бұрын
Me too, I’m about to do an essay on inverters applied to automotive engineering and I’d love to have a great basis of knowledge to work from. Great content guys, and also a really good host today. More of this kind of video!!!
@hardergamer
@hardergamer 9 ай бұрын
Me too.
@DarthAwar
@DarthAwar 9 ай бұрын
Always use a Pure Sinewave Invertor they are more expensive to make over the Cheaper Square Wave but are better for the Electronics Devices Longevity Square Sinewave is Digital either On or Off real Quickly while a Pure Sinewave is Analog with a Gradual Increase and Decres, This leads too a Cooler device and no Sudden Surge that even if designed to Take will wear down Componentes (Resistors, Capacitors, Chokes even Copper Wires!) Much Faster! * Pure Sinewave can Extend a Devices Life Span over No Invertor or a Square (aka False!) Sinewave Invertor by as much as 30 to 60% and can save Power Usage by 20 to 35% on Average but could be even Higher! There is a Good Reason by Pure Sinewave Invertors are Always used for Important Computer Systems (Military Systems Including RADAR, Server Farms/Cloud Computing, Mainframes, Supercomputers, Banks etc.)
@InnerG84
@InnerG84 9 ай бұрын
If and when you do speak about inverters, can you explain how the Coil Driver (inverter) is different from most inverters?
@தமிழன்0000
@தமிழன்0000 8 ай бұрын
Me too
@curtisoien
@curtisoien 10 ай бұрын
I would love to see more videos from this guy. Thanks.
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
You got it!
@oof_Dad
@oof_Dad 10 ай бұрын
Now talk about how regen works with them please! @@MunroLive
@rp9674
@rp9674 10 ай бұрын
​@oof_Dad I was going to say it the reverse, but not sure that's right
@TOOLMAN4hvac
@TOOLMAN4hvac 10 ай бұрын
DITTOS, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING THIS GUY?
@rp9674
@rp9674 10 ай бұрын
He good
@radeklukas
@radeklukas 10 ай бұрын
I giving a like just for the humble "thank you" to engineers. Not the salesman, not the marketing, the engineers.
@dougdority5589
@dougdority5589 10 ай бұрын
This guy is fantastic. He could teach a rock.
@rp9674
@rp9674 10 ай бұрын
He could rock at teaching
@2ndfloorsongs
@2ndfloorsongs 10 ай бұрын
Hot damn, the ability to teach rocks while rocking. This guy is just great. As others have said: I'd have loved to have him as an instructor. Monroe take note: We want more of this guy!
@rp9674
@rp9674 10 ай бұрын
Affirmative response
@cyberdelia1
@cyberdelia1 10 ай бұрын
This guy is brilliant. Please have him make additional videos, would love to hear about inverters!
@JakeRoeder
@JakeRoeder 10 ай бұрын
I've trained 1000's of people in AC drives (inverters in the video) and electric motors and I never thought about using the example of people doing the wave as an example of what happens in the stator. That's really brilliant and I might have to "borrow" that for future trainings!
@rogerstarkey5390
@rogerstarkey5390 10 ай бұрын
Also surfing, linear motor?
@mechanicalgraffiti
@mechanicalgraffiti 10 ай бұрын
@@rogerstarkey5390 LOL Yes, nice
@briansilver9652
@briansilver9652 10 ай бұрын
OK, try to explain PWM (pulse width modulation) in the stadium analogy.😀 But agreed, this novel (to us) analogy is great. Never seen any of this explained without showing the AC sine wave, which would just complicate this short explanation.
@unitrader403
@unitrader403 10 ай бұрын
@@briansilver9652joke is on you, for Motors the Frequency is Modulated, not the Duty Cycle ;) :P (some "DC Motors"/Motor Controllers take a PWM signal as input, yes.. but its not passed to the Coils of the Motor itself)
@briansilver9652
@briansilver9652 10 ай бұрын
@@unitrader403 oh contrare. The IGBTs output PWM power which is used to simulate the sine wave shape and frequency. But it is just square wave pulses. At least that was what we learned at VFD training 20 odd years ago. I'm retired from the game now so maybe they can produce actual sine wave inverters now.
@goingoutotheparty1
@goingoutotheparty1 10 ай бұрын
Yes Id like to hear more about the controllers and the magnetic field concentration
@tomooo2637
@tomooo2637 10 ай бұрын
People that really know their subject to great depth make it sound simple, they don't waffle. You sir are a true master of your subject, thank you.
@BigBoneESB
@BigBoneESB 10 ай бұрын
This was exceptionally well done in I believe one shot. Well done!
@patrickkenny2077
@patrickkenny2077 10 ай бұрын
As an electrical engineer, that was by far the best explanation of how an induction motor works that I have ever heard. I always had a mental block on the subject and treated it as a bit of a black box. Thanks for the great run-down, Paul!
@josephm6734
@josephm6734 10 ай бұрын
Please do more of these videos it hard to find information like this on the internet.
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
We will!
@2ndfloorsongs
@2ndfloorsongs 10 ай бұрын
Add another vote for videos like these, especially with this guy.
@loriallen67
@loriallen67 9 ай бұрын
Yes. More please. This was great.
@ThomasMarteau
@ThomasMarteau 10 ай бұрын
Welcome Paul into the family of Munro presenters! (At least, it is a first time for me) I finally get the differences of those 2 motors. Great explanation and I love when engineers congratulate each other because nobody else will do it anyway!
@garbageman3992
@garbageman3992 10 ай бұрын
YES WE WOULD LOVE A VIDEO ON INVERTERS! I am just a hobbyist electrical engineer, I haven't done school for it and this information is really hard to find around the internet and I would love to see in depth into how an inverter creates a smooth sine wave.
@wtmayhew
@wtmayhew 10 ай бұрын
This is a good executive summary induction vs. PM motors. Thanks for not turning it into an advertisement for any one manufacturer.
@rp9674
@rp9674 10 ай бұрын
Yes, I saw him almost brand, he rethought. Much appreciated pure tech explanation.
@Dave-ei7kk
@Dave-ei7kk 10 ай бұрын
That PM motor rotor sure looks like what’s in one of the two motors in my Tesla. I kinda wish he had mentioned where these parts came from. No harm in that.
@bgbrandvold
@bgbrandvold 10 ай бұрын
@@Dave-ei7kkthese were both Tesla motor designs. If you look through the older Munro videos you’ll see them tearing down multiple Tesla models to look at the newest motor designs.
@Dave-ei7kk
@Dave-ei7kk 10 ай бұрын
@@bgbrandvold I wasn’t sure about the induction motor rotors. Were they both Tesla designs? They were quite different from each other.
@brianb-p6586
@brianb-p6586 10 ай бұрын
@@Dave-ei7kk Tesla used copper for their induction rotors, at least initially. I don't know if some of their later designs use aluminum.
@timw1971
@timw1971 10 ай бұрын
3:25 Yes! I would love to know why the magnets are arranged the way they are.
@bgbrandvold
@bgbrandvold 10 ай бұрын
Munro tears down this PM motor about two years ago…so you can see how/why they arranged the magnets in this manner if you go back to watch that video.
@wxyz885
@wxyz885 4 ай бұрын
​@@bgbrandvold Thanks! Can you attach a link please?
@brettwalker6075
@brettwalker6075 10 ай бұрын
Would love to hear where regen braking comes into this whole picture of motor design. When regen braking - what does the motor do and is it different between the 2 motor types?
@kazedcat
@kazedcat 10 ай бұрын
Induction motors have a bit lower efficiency since you need energy to keep the rotor magnetised.
@audunskilbrei8279
@audunskilbrei8279 10 ай бұрын
That would be interesting. I know the old teslas that have 2 induction motors actually has a small separate generator attached to the motor for regen. So the induction motor isn't used for regen at all. From his explanation it is not clear to me how induction motors would create regen since if you don't pass current through the coils it will just spin freely not creating any current at all. But I don't know.
@kazedcat
@kazedcat 10 ай бұрын
@@audunskilbrei8279 As long as the magnetic field in the stator is rotating at a different speed than the rotor the rotor remains magnetized. And with the rotor magnetized it will induct current into the stator coils. So you need to supply a low current in the stator to keep the rotor magnetized and then the rotor will strengthen the current in the stator coil via induction.
@ssnoc
@ssnoc 10 ай бұрын
YES - How Inverters work would be a great Video please do one ... Thanks Great Content!
@Stefan_Dahn
@Stefan_Dahn 9 ай бұрын
That stadion analogy is brilliant! I HAVE to steal that! Eddy Current says "Thank You!". 😁
@pepstein
@pepstein 10 ай бұрын
This is one of my favorite Munro videos. I've been learning about EVs for about 6 years and yet I learned a lot from this video. Yes, please do videos on magnet positioning in rotors and on inverter design.
@n2l2l
@n2l2l 10 ай бұрын
Stadium Mexican Wave: perfect and very simple explanation of very complex electrical problem of induction motors work principle.
@Dave5843-d9m
@Dave5843-d9m 10 ай бұрын
My professor of electrical engineering didn’t have the amazing analogies of this presenter. But he was able to explain ac theory in easy to understand ways. I never struggled with even the complex stuff (eg running alternators in parallel). He was that good.
@arleneallen8809
@arleneallen8809 10 ай бұрын
Some OEMs have recently gotten excited about axial flux motors. It would be interesting to see them included as a part of this comparison.
@brianb-p6586
@brianb-p6586 10 ай бұрын
But the configuration (axial-flux versus radial-flux) is irrelevant to the differences between induction and PM motors.
@arleneallen8809
@arleneallen8809 10 ай бұрын
@@brianb-p6586 Agreed. I was adding a third because some OEMs are starting to embrace them.
@brianb-p6586
@brianb-p6586 10 ай бұрын
@@arleneallen8809 but no OEMs are using axial-flux motors in mass production. Mercedes might, some day (since they bought YASA) but doesn't yet. Koenigsegg uses them, but every one of their cars ever built with an electric drive motor (Regera and Gemera) wouldn't add up to one day of production of an actual mass-production car. And even if axial-flux motors were used, it still wouldn't be a third type; the YASA and whatever Koenigsegg is calling their variant of it are simply synchronous PM motors.
@solarcannonballrun
@solarcannonballrun 10 ай бұрын
My man Paul! Glad to see your talents and knowledge shared with the community, now everyone gets to sit at your desk and learn, just like I had the pleasure at GM! Thanks!
@RichardSalmore
@RichardSalmore 10 ай бұрын
I vote to go deeper into inverter design and function in a future video. Besides having a deep understanding and expert level EE knowledge, you have tremendous instruction skills and a very pleasant voice❤
@saksmlz
@saksmlz 10 ай бұрын
What a great way to explain these concepts, thank you!
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@StopTheBurn
@StopTheBurn 10 ай бұрын
Paul reminds me of my Industrial Electronics instructor when I was in Technical High School many years ago. Well done 💯.
@loriallen67
@loriallen67 9 ай бұрын
This is brilliant. My husband is a manufacturing engineer who makes electric motors. He’s explained motors to me so many times, but this is even better. Thanks. Well done.
@xxwookey
@xxwookey 10 ай бұрын
You can tell this guy really understands the subject in depth. I've been wanting someone to properly explain induction vs PM motors for years. Finally someone does it in sufficient detail to be be useful amd in a way that makes sense. Thank you (and Munro for putting him 'on stage'). I look forward to more videos on inverters and regen (at least).
@tesla_tap
@tesla_tap 10 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation. Far clearer than my motor's class 40 years ago. Thanks!
@ericnewton5720
@ericnewton5720 10 ай бұрын
Looking forward to this discussion by Munro when I discovered BMW went with non perm magnet motors because of their apprehension to supply chain concerns of permanent magnets. It seems to me that if you have a dual motor platform (like bmw i4 m50 and others) , it makes sense to have permanent magnet in the rear and induction in the front. This way you can reduce power to zero on the front.
@alfredogonzalez1280
@alfredogonzalez1280 10 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation, clear concepts and applications. Please have this person explain other parts of the EV.
@keithlatty
@keithlatty 10 ай бұрын
What a brilliant teacher you are sir !!!!
@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461
@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461 10 ай бұрын
🙋‍♂️THANKS PAUL,AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS 🥶 AND INTERESTING 🧐💚💚💚
@zeitgeist888
@zeitgeist888 10 ай бұрын
Excellent tech talk that is super approachable and easy to understand. I would love to hear more about axial v radial and new combined designs as well as more about the invertors and rotor designs like carbon wrapped etc to keep things together at high speeds. A discussion on the transaxle gear reduction design and friction efficiencies between bearings and gears and fluids would be interesting too. Also some explanation on the benefits of field weakening and how that is accomplished and why/when would be great.
@markedward4290
@markedward4290 10 ай бұрын
Paul made it so easy to understand. He's a keeper.
@MrNollemans
@MrNollemans 10 ай бұрын
Yes, like all the deep dive, including inverters too. Always something great (small or big) to learn and to look for. I am also curious about yield strength calculation and yield strength monitoring during the years of usage of the carbon wrapping of Tesla rotor.
@ranig2848
@ranig2848 10 ай бұрын
Excellent video and we want MORE! As for spin loss, for dual motor applications, some vendors would like to 'disconnect' one of the motors when going at constant speed on the highway to reduce energy use, so in that case, induction as one of the two motors is also an advantage.
@accumulator5734
@accumulator5734 10 ай бұрын
Great video, can we please 🙏 get a video explaining the the winding pattern that goes through the stator slots, how the 3 windings overlap, and an explanation of the direction the current flows through the windings showing how the polarity changes??? Man that would be awesome!
@aussie2uGA
@aussie2uGA 10 ай бұрын
Very Interesting. When the Model 3 was introduced in 2017, the "internet talk" described the rear permanent magnet motor as the efficiency motor. They described the front induction motor as the performance motor. There then began the discussion of why Tesla would put a stronger motor on the front, rather than the rear. The internet consensus was that because Tesla was also building just a single rear motor Model3, the efficiency motor would always be on the rear.
@zodiacfml
@zodiacfml 10 ай бұрын
Nice tidbit. In return, on 27:50. He made a slight inaccuracy that computers decide when to use between PM and induction motors which is wrong. PM motors are always engaged or on (at least on a Tesla) while the induction motor is on-demand.
@robertrjm8115
@robertrjm8115 10 ай бұрын
@@zodiacfml indeed, PM motors need to be engaged at all times since they generate back EMF which puts a strong disruptive load on the inverters. If one would design a system where you 'switch' between induction and PM motor you would need a clutch type or other means of decoupling the PM motor from the rotating components, adding complexity and cost. The minor disadvantages of the induction motor over a PM motor can be compensated by a 2 gear system giving higher torque at low rev and extending efficiency out to higher revs
@brianb-p6586
@brianb-p6586 10 ай бұрын
Like most internet speculation, that was incorrect - the front (induction) motor of the Model 3 is not "stronger".
@kn944
@kn944 10 ай бұрын
Good stuff Paul - thanks. You should next explain EESM (wound rotor). These motors are quickly gaining traction and can already be found in a few production EVs (Nissan Airya, BMW I7, Renault ZOE...). In 5 years, they will dominate Induction motors as the secondary motors in EVs. And in 10 years, after battery prices fall further and therefore motor efficiency becomes less important, they will dominate IPM motors as the primary motor in EVs.
@zodiacfml
@zodiacfml 10 ай бұрын
interesting point but then there is also progress on none rare earth metal permanent magnets. I roughly heard that it uses iron as permanent magnet but requires a little of induction.
@__________5737
@__________5737 10 ай бұрын
Fantastic analogies. Protec this man!
@rickfearn3663
@rickfearn3663 10 ай бұрын
Absolutely brilliant explanation. Best I have ever viewed. Thank you.
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching!
@JamesBrown-oo8gz
@JamesBrown-oo8gz 6 ай бұрын
I love all of your videos. I have been designing 3 different types of true DC motors that are no phase, simple, easy to make, and cheap. They are more efficient, low heat production, no eddy current generation, no flipping magnetic fields,no need for electronic commutation. These motors are going to open the doors to new discoveries in electronic thrusters and different types of propulsion and types of transportation. I plan to take them to TESLA and SPACE X, when prototypes are completed and calibrated. Hopefully very soon.😊😊😊😊GOD BLESS. OUR FUTURE IS LOOKING GREAT FOR ALL OF US.
@32bits-of-a-bus59
@32bits-of-a-bus59 10 ай бұрын
Excellent video, thank you! I've got lost a bit when you mentioned the torque curves. I thought it was the IPMSM motor the power of which has to drop due to field weakening trick that the controller has to start doing when the back-EMF reaches the voltage of the battery rails. On the other hand, by controlling the induction motor's slip, it is possible to lower the induced current in its rotor and therefore its magnetic field and back-EMF as well. This also leads to a lower power (because of lower torque) but is not as lossy as when IPMSM must use electricity to fight with its own magnet's field. Could you please explain it more deeply in the next video?
@PaulTurnbull-EMfield
@PaulTurnbull-EMfield 10 ай бұрын
Yes, an interior permanent magnet synchronous machine (IPMSM) does require field weakening for operation at high speeds. The field weakening current increases the loss in the machine, but it only reduces the peak power by a few percent.
@musicjohn1
@musicjohn1 10 ай бұрын
One of the best Munro videos ever!
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Thanks
@loriallen67
@loriallen67 9 ай бұрын
Agreed
@err1127
@err1127 10 ай бұрын
This was an absolutely brilliant free lesson. Thank you
@nobody-xt3zg
@nobody-xt3zg 10 ай бұрын
It would be great to have deep dive on inverter that drivers EV so quick and do regeneraton
@dragosmihai1001
@dragosmihai1001 10 ай бұрын
very goood video, this was usefull, one of the best video ever..... not as cool, but very educational but not boring. Thank you very much!!!!
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@trygvetveit4747
@trygvetveit4747 10 ай бұрын
This is the best expalanation ever! i understand the differece and working principle as pensioned a Marine Chief engineer but i could never fully explain it to others! And as for my proffecional curiosity, could you do the regenerative braking efficiency differecy as well? As a generator?(Yes i know its the oposite but still im unable to explain it to myself and other people )
@Pikminiman
@Pikminiman 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for explaining about efficiency tradeoffs at high speed.
@cuulcars
@cuulcars Ай бұрын
0:00 Introduction 2:44 Physical Differences 5:34 How They Work 11:43 Advantages / Disadvantages 18:30 Performance Differences
@agusyudiyantoark
@agusyudiyantoark 10 ай бұрын
I didn't realized that i tuned in for almost 30 minutes straight. Things that was thought in college was meaningless to me until now. Thanks munroe team for this effort.
@carvalhoribeiro
@carvalhoribeiro 10 ай бұрын
I'm watching it during my lunch break. This is very educational. Thanks for sharing this.
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@achmadosman9807
@achmadosman9807 9 ай бұрын
Easily the best video from Munro ever. Informative, easy to understand and no talking down. Very well made.
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 9 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@paulgracey4697
@paulgracey4697 10 ай бұрын
Thanks Paul. Excellent presentation.Your explanation that 'DC' motors are really AC when in operation is one I have been telling people myself but you are the first instructor I have heard make that point. I had not heard the term "spin loss" as opposed to "cogging loss" applied to the PM motor's problem when unpowered. One question I had while watching was how my single motor Tesla maintains its good efficiency during coasting, if it does. I have wondered if Tesla applies a small synchronous drive field current to neutralize those spin losses as much as possible, if such a strategy could work to advantage. The display indication of whether my car is in regen or in drive mode seems to indicate no middle between the modes.
@user-Dave67
@user-Dave67 10 ай бұрын
Yaa He didn't cover region, which would have been nice to hear what he thinks about. What happens between the motors in regen
@MrGlenferd
@MrGlenferd 10 ай бұрын
I think he is wrong about DC motors. Every time a coil on the rotor is energized the brushes connecting to commutor bars create a field in that coil which repells the like poles and is attracted to the opposite poles in the stator causing it to rotate till the next coil is connected to do the same thing. The reason it will also work on AC is that both the stator and armature windings and changing polarity at the same time so the combined effect is the same.
@salipander6570
@salipander6570 10 ай бұрын
@@MrGlenferdHe was talking about feeding with DC power. In order to let the rotor rotate in a static field in the stator, it needs a switch of current direction in the rotor. That is done by the commutator.
@MrAgility888
@MrAgility888 10 ай бұрын
Really enjoyed this video. I've seen people talk about what motor type is in a certain EV but I never really knew why that was important. Love your content.
@larry4fire
@larry4fire 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for a great talk on this subject, I really learned a lot. I really love it when a true expert like this guy talks about the science, and not how one manufacturer is clueless while another can do no wrong.
@garyhalmbacher6875
@garyhalmbacher6875 3 ай бұрын
I'm an electronic engineer with experience in both VFDs and motors, and I love your video. Simply explained but very informative.
@bryanfulmer4823
@bryanfulmer4823 10 ай бұрын
Just getting around to watching. To a mechanical engineer, like me, this guy is fantastic. Very informative. Thanks for sharing.
@oleraal
@oleraal 10 ай бұрын
Fantastic masterclass in EV motors. I would really appreciate a video on how inverters and resolvers work. Thank you so much for all the good stuff you all at Munro put out there for us mechanics to re-learn powertrain technology as we put the ICE’s to rest.
@Mladjasmilic
@Mladjasmilic 10 ай бұрын
Renault Zoe uses synchronous motor by having 4 winding inside the rotor and excitation circuit with carbon brushes. So motor can turn off, can run much hotter than permanent magnet motor. It has low cost. But downside is that brushes wear out.
@robertcetti6935
@robertcetti6935 10 ай бұрын
Great examples to show how different types of electric motors work. I certainly have a better understanding of the principles of electric motors after watching this video. It would be great to have a lesson on how DC to AC inverters work.
@CFG39
@CFG39 10 ай бұрын
I would love to see a tear down of the BMW brushed motor. They are seriously efficient. We have an i7 xDrive60 and I averaged 3.4mi/kWh in this 6000lbs beast the other day in a mix of heavy stop and go traffic and then a cruise on the highway at 80MPH for about 30 miles. Average lifetime consumption is 3.0mi/kWh on 20” wheels which is quite impressive for such a large and tall sedan that punches quite a big hole through the air considering most of the miles are done at high speed on the interstate and it’s such a huge car. Friend of mine with an i4 xDrive40 gets over 350 miles of range in summer around town and about 300 miles on the interstate.
@ABa-os6wm
@ABa-os6wm 10 ай бұрын
It is NOT a brushed motor.
@brianb-p6586
@brianb-p6586 10 ай бұрын
@@ABa-os6wm BMW is using (in some models) a synchronous motor with externally excited wound rotor, rather than permanent magnet; that means that it does have brushes and slip rings. It is not a "DC" motor, and does not have a commutator. Renault also uses this style of motor in at least some models, and now Nissan does as well (in the Ariya). The brushes and slip rings carry only rotor excitation current (not the full motor power), so they are like the similar components in a typical automotive alternator, and will have similar long life.
@CFG39
@CFG39 10 ай бұрын
@@brianb-p6586 all of their cars using their “5th generation e-drive motors” are using the brushed externally excited design. I’m really wanting to see a high mileage teardown. BMW claims the brushes last 180,000 miles or so. Would love to see how things look after 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, 150,000 miles.
@CFG39
@CFG39 10 ай бұрын
@@ABa-os6wm BMW has used externally-excited brushed motors in their 5th generation eDrive units instead of permanent magnet or induction motors. The brushes are supposed to last the life of the car (180,000 miles or so). The i4, i5, i7 and iX all use the motors, as does the iX3 and new China-only i3.
@TrueSuperNatural
@TrueSuperNatural 10 ай бұрын
Great job explaining the difference between induction and permanent magnet motors!!
@heinrichgerhardt6119
@heinrichgerhardt6119 10 ай бұрын
Yes! Magnet arrangements and how they influence motor performance would be nice to see!
@kirkdameron6341
@kirkdameron6341 10 ай бұрын
Yes! to making another video on various designs and tradeoffs of the internal magnet placement inside permanent magnet rotors.
@cuepusher2504
@cuepusher2504 10 ай бұрын
Love the arena wave analogy for RMF. Are their two more advantages to induction motors. One, In city and mountain driving the low "spin loss" allows the driver to take advantage of the kinetic energy of the car and avoid some of the inherent losses of regenning. Two, if each wheel of a car has its own asynchronies motor (no differential) all driven by a single inverter, would induction motors elegantly torque vector without an algorithm?
@RawSteelable
@RawSteelable 10 ай бұрын
It is RARE to see such an amazing teacher/tutor who presents the information in extremely clean/ simple /short / easy to understand way! BIG KUDOS!!!
@davidl.howser9707
@davidl.howser9707 10 ай бұрын
Yes....Please do discuss magnetic field line angle choices, and inverters. Thank you....., thank Sandy , and thank the Munro Leadership team there for sharing knowledge. When my products need evaluation and validation I know who to call on as a way of giving back to Munro and Associates.
@nathanielgritzman6961
@nathanielgritzman6961 10 ай бұрын
Fantastic video. Thank you for creating it. Regarding the question, would we like further content created explaining more details, the answer is always yes please.
@DigbyGrayston
@DigbyGrayston 10 ай бұрын
facinating....id love you to explain how an invertor works.... my Dad was a royal electrical mechanical engineer and you remind me of how he explained things
@billdoodson4232
@billdoodson4232 10 ай бұрын
A deeper dive on inverters and motors would be fantastic. Plus where can they really be improved. Axial motors and how they can be used and improved would be great.
@nster3
@nster3 10 ай бұрын
Yea a look into YASA Axial Flux motors and the likes of the EQXX would be great
@f205v
@f205v 10 ай бұрын
OK, the merry-go-round explanation made me "click" and now I do REALLY understand how the electric motor works! Thank you!
@cosmickd
@cosmickd 10 ай бұрын
When you’re talking about the different motor types, which one provides for regenerative braking? I assume it’s the permanent magnet motor and not the induction motor, but could you clarify?
@thomasczylok2269
@thomasczylok2269 10 ай бұрын
Paul, I am tipping my hat for this performance - well received explanation and summary. Thanks a lot!
@satoshimanabe2493
@satoshimanabe2493 10 ай бұрын
I think it should be mentioned there's also a difference in regenerative braking. But otherwise a perfect presentation!
@waynelevett3632
@waynelevett3632 10 ай бұрын
Thank you. I got some of it to sink in. I'll have to watch this a few times but thank you so much and yes a bigger thanks to the builders of these awesome motors. I have both in my model S 85d
@DickDeVillers
@DickDeVillers 10 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation about how these motors work and how they are different. I finally understand what “AC induction” is all about. Thank you!
@thedownwardmachine
@thedownwardmachine 10 ай бұрын
If I remember rightly, one of the limiting factors of the permanent magnet motors in the Model S Performance was the very small change in the geometry of the rotor at very high speeds, which caused it to stop working well enough to continue accelerating. This was solved with the carbon fiber wrapping of the rotors in the Plaid to maintain proper shape until even higher speeds. I understand Porsche gets around this by having a two-speed transmission.
@highlanderapparel
@highlanderapparel 10 ай бұрын
I would love to hear More about inverters. I'm a former nuclear submariner electronic field. The Highlander PS kindness is always free.😊
@ericplatzke
@ericplatzke 10 ай бұрын
Love these educational videos!
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
More to come!
@Radium3D
@Radium3D 10 ай бұрын
Would love to learn more about the inverters! Could you explain how my 2023 Model Y LR AWD gets 275 Wh/mi while my 2019 3 SR+ RWD was getting 269 Wh/mi? I assume the fact that LR AWD Y has induction and permanent magnet motors for higher efficiency, but there must be some battery and inverter magic going on there too to only be 6Wh/mi less efficient despite weighing so much more and being less aerodynamic?
@frankhage1734
@frankhage1734 10 ай бұрын
Two thumbs up for Paul. I'd love his take on the latest motor controllers (inverters). I'm curious about all kinds of brushless motors used for "transportation". Use model airplane or RC car motors to demonstrate their configurations. I'm super curious about Koenigsegg's new electric motors.
@jonrico7937
@jonrico7937 9 ай бұрын
As an owner of a Dual Motor Model Y, this was an OUTSTANDING video!!! Thank you greatly!!
@highlanderapparel
@highlanderapparel 10 ай бұрын
I think this is a very good explanation for those who don't have detailed knowledge the Highlander.😊
@daveoatway6126
@daveoatway6126 10 ай бұрын
How is the power recapture while regenerative breaking affected by the motor type?
@JFirn86Q
@JFirn86Q 10 ай бұрын
Would love to see a video about the inverters they are using now, and how they compare to typical industrial VFDs and such. Thanks!
@davec2211
@davec2211 10 ай бұрын
Paul a truly educational episode! I appreciate EV motors and how they work with new insight, thank you for sharing your expertise!
@MrAramman
@MrAramman 10 ай бұрын
video on why the magnest are arranged like that and how the ycan be arranged pls
@gurpreetbanwait6097
@gurpreetbanwait6097 5 ай бұрын
Beautifully explained specifically the pmm problem with idle moving, that thing even i didn't knew and i am an electrical engineer. Deep respect to u paul
@ghostindamachine
@ghostindamachine 10 ай бұрын
Great video and explanations by Paul!
@MunroLive
@MunroLive 10 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@dragosmihai1001
@dragosmihai1001 10 ай бұрын
@@MunroLive I liked it too, usefull , not cool, not boring, not short , not long, to the point, one of the best video on this channel
@eugeneputin1858
@eugeneputin1858 10 ай бұрын
Wow this is probably the most informational released by ya'll. Would love to hear about inverters as well!
@ourkaravan
@ourkaravan 10 ай бұрын
Excellent teacher. I have watched many videos to try and understand these concepts, and this guy nailed it. Tesla Model 3/Y's use induction front and permanent magnet rear motors. Because the front induction can be idled with low loss, there is no mechanical axle decoupling required like on a Hyundai/Kia car that use magnet front and rear motors.
@yasserfuad8775
@yasserfuad8775 10 ай бұрын
I am an electrical engineering bachelor graduate I'm learing care more than what you learn the University it would be great if you keep explaining this topic We are getting a lot here Thank you for the great explains And thanks for Sandy for bringing you here
@cbcruz74
@cbcruz74 10 ай бұрын
Great content and delivery, Paul. Please continue and help us understand inverters.
@edsmithson975
@edsmithson975 10 ай бұрын
I’ve watched many videos about motors and their differences and this was by far the best such video. I could really understand how the two motors worked and their advantages and disadvantages. Thank you.
@mawa5702
@mawa5702 10 ай бұрын
Paul is just the best teacher I have ever seen. Brilliant
@RonnyJakobsson
@RonnyJakobsson 10 ай бұрын
This was a very good and simple to understand educational video that covered most aspects of motors. Great work
@elwing021
@elwing021 10 ай бұрын
Another amazing video, thank you very much and we will need the other videos mentioned! Again thanks for sharing all this knowledge.
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