Destiny 2 - THE WINNOWER IS IN HERESY! It Speaks To Your Guardian

The Tablets Of Ruin. Ancient artifacts that allowed Oryx to speak to the deep and learn the power to take. The Guardian has one as an artifact in Heresy and today we are going to dive through its mysteries. Bungie finally acknowledges the existence of the Winnower in the Tablet’s new lore! Let’s explain what it means!
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“Destiny 2 Heresy”
“Destiny 2 Heresy Winnower”
“Destiny 2 Secrets”
“Destiny 2 Story and Lore”
Thanks for watching!

[@KiraKuin2424]

I love how the lore gets better everytime there's a hive related season/dlc

[@garrettviewegh9028]

Winnower: “Hey kid. You’ve been doing great. Commuted every atrocity under the sun. Even murdered my main man Oryx. Well done. You’ve given me everything”. The Guardian: “I don’t even know who you are”. Winniwer: “You will. I’m the one that’s been sitting across from the chess board. And what has your Gardner done for you? She just sits there. Silent. I offer you the world. Why follow the rules? When you can make them. Be above consequences. Take. What you want. Morals be damned”.

[@Oblivion___]

Oryx did indeed speak to the Winnower. This explains the different way of speaking between the entity that spoke to Oryx and the Witness: "Oryx My King" "Oryx My Friend" This also implies that Oryx was not following the Witness, and that he wanted to make his own Final Shape, and why he is also called the King of Shapes.

[@Oblivion___]

@@RichardWatterson-t3c I love the progression, in D1 in the Tablets of Ruin, in the first meetings Winnower refers to him as a friend, but the speeches progress. > Oryx, my Friend... > Oryx, my King... > Oryx, my Man... "They are not all mine, not in the way that admirers such as my man Oryx are mine." -- Winnower.

[@bradwhite5884]

Oryx 🤝 The Winnower

[@nalinshukla5413]

Winnower is a type of lawn mower that doesn't lose

[@thegunslinginghero]

More powerful than John deer, is John moose!

[@nicholasdallon8992]

If you find the symbols of hive gods run into them and you will get Dialogue from the siblings

[@Shiinobiiii]

The main differences between The Winnower and The Witness is that, The Witness focuses on controling, manipulating, and oppressing with the fundamental laws of the universe, where as The Winnower (the direct counterpart/opposite of the Garderner/The Traveler) is more focused on covertly conquering, dominating and Taking…in the dark, for it is the progenitor of it.

[@Agent_Verse]

That's exactly how it was for the witness as well 😂

[@Shiinobiiii]

@@Agent_Verse The difference between The Witness and the guardians origin is that The Witness was chosen but they do not understand what their role could've been in the bigger picture as they could've chose to still use the light and work with it as the traveler moved on to raise other civilizations however they did not, but The Gaurdian on the other hand was only briefly left by the traveler and then it came back…

[@MichaelThomas-q3m]

Wait is that true the winnower wants to take conquer and dominate everything

[@Shiinobiiii]

@@MichaelThomas-q3m Those are but aspects of its nature, The winnower represents death, decay, reduction, and simplification. The Gardener/The Traveler on the other hand represents creation, life, growth, proliferation, and complexity.

[@joelmanning249]

I don’t think the Winnower wants to conquer, it just wants to prove it’s philosophy of existence is the only true one and prove the Gardener wrong

[@Crixus2580]

Honestly, the personality in the messages we read from the winnower, I just picture it as a sort of ruthless bad guy that wears Hawaiian shirts and seems super chill until they're crossed Edit: said witness, meant winnower haha

[@EternalFount]

@@Crixus2580 it's the uncle that gave you fireworks your parents wouldn't have approved of. Probably gave you a sip, too.

[@Crixus2580]

@robertdewolfe1654 ty

[@Crixus2580]

@@EternalFount exactly haha

[@ZugaTurrelai]

Can’t wait for more winnower. Man I really hope we lean into the taken power for a subclass with frontiers, I know it isn’t happening but it would be so cool

[@theawesomesausage]

I believe Taking as we see it now has Oryx's signature/taint. i was against the idea of Taking being a subclass because i think it's lame af, but im not writing it off anymore. I do think it has to have a different look and vibe to it to be similar to the typical subclass(es).

[@MichaelThomas-q3m]

@@theawesomesausageyeah fight fire with fire the way to fight the winnower and those who follow the sword logic

[@AzizKhalid-jf4nj]

I think bungie is taking the story from any theory you think about😂😂

[@l1ngl1ng]

throw shit at the wall and see what sticks

[@l1ngl1ng]

marvel did the same stuff early on with the stones before thanos

[@AzizKhalid-jf4nj]

@@l1ngl1ngbut I can’t deny it the lore is good(for me)

[@EternalFount]

It's really just a feedback loop. The theories are based on actual lore that was seemingly ignored in favor of the Witness. The writing team has changed more than once. The Winnower was real, then a metaphor and now they are real again. If you look at certain concept art, it would appear at one point Nezerac was not only the leader of the Black Fleet, but also an ancient Human. Only to be replaced by the Witness and given minion status. There are concept art of so many different possible directions and some of it is coming back. Maybe we can get the space tiger or the giant frog in the future.

[@Thugliferider007]

@@EternalFountEXACTLY. Glad someone gets it - for example, sure now we know the Winnower is speaking to Oryx in the Books of Sorrow, but back then when it was first written in D1, I am 99% sure it was meant to be the Pyramid master, The Witness. Then because of the language and vocabulary involved after the Witness was fleshed out, they retconned it to be the Winnower.

[@vgernyc]

"I am no cackling mastermind" I feel is a veiled insult at Savathun. Especially since she's been trying to transcend the rules of Light and Dark.

[@Slop-cute]

I screamed when I read the artifact tab…

[@Sailer_Monke]

Me too lol

[@SaltyAuburnBrown]

gey

[@attackboss6]

The scream you scroamt

[@s0hlless]

by the end of destiny there won't just be the gardener and the winnower. we will ascend as a third that sits at the table or ascend beyond those two because we are gaining power from the gardener and the winnower. the powers of the two will join together in harmony.

[@MichaelThomas-q3m]

Yeah The winnower the god of darkness the gardener the god of light and finally soon the guardian the god of primatic both light and dark the one that hold the 2 together in harmony

[@ninepearlfangs]

8:19 piss savathun jumpscare

[@lixoid4010]

LMFAO WHAT?

[@thetitanking9999]

LMAOOOO

[@ParsoJr]

I hope when this game eventually winds up, we get the saga in book form. The lore is written so bloody well, I’d actually get back into reading again

[@78proto]

This feels like Kingdom Hearts without Keyblades.

[@JadeOart]

The biggest twist in destiny is that the willonwer is responsible for the bungee layoffs.

[@hytanii]

Majestic. Majestic.

[@helioseternal2537]

Something unrelated that I just had to share was that the orbit screens for Titan and Io were restored this season. After season of arrivals when you went to these locations for crucible gambit and just recently ghosts and the whisper you still travel there, but when you got out of the activity the loading screen would be earth. It’s not Earth anymore and it’s the actual planets again including their low orbit loading screens. I get Titan since it’s been returned but Io being back is strange. Mercury strangely enough still brings you back to earth. Maybe Io will come back?

[@nathanlamb1794]

Keep up the good work love your videos ❤

[@Gamer01_]

What this game needs to do is at the end of destiny 2... we fight zavala and all the good guys and we get defeated because we turned evil because we are following the sword logic this whole time and then shows our burial site. That would be the coolest end in any game ever. 😂

[@HeroAndReporter]

The Winnower is daring us to kill the newest enemy, but it also seemingly knows that no one else is in our ear at this moment. Ikora has given us the absolute freedom to do whatever we need to do. The last time the Guardian had this kind of freedom to go total scorched earth, Prince Uldren died, and if the Winnower has been as ‘acquainted’ with us as it claims, it knows that too. We are on the precipice of acquiring deeper, darker power, staring into a Tablet Of Ruin. If people were worried about us using Stasis, this might be even worse. Because we have no one holding us back.

[@Proaz15]

Does the witness knew the winnower talked to Oryx? If so, why she didn't do anything? She didn't need to?

[@deathhexxxgaming3431]

Good to see Evaze back at it and Destiny on an upstroke. Took half the first episode and basically all the last off the game... getting the season pass and getting back at it, as are a few friends of mine. Excited to be back and see what is to come.

[@niasny8689]

Great, you did it, you made me re-install destiny 2 again... Jesus this game just wont let me go...

[@mjthom08]

So when it said then kill it I dare you we might be fighting the winnower in frontiers or sometime in the next saga

[@TylandPlayz]

Destiny 3

[@lxstphxraoh8969]

I wonder if eris will be more hive like when we summon her out of her throne world, I hope we get more interaction with the witness at least somewhat close to what oryx had (an unobservable conversation) I wonder if this is going to push us into further understanding of the traveler over all

[@The_Sap_Lord]

Taken Subclass dropping in frontiers. Calling it now.

[@Yeahthatguy617]

I just realized 1:06 oryx got a receding hairline

[@Cherub3336]

Oh my dear friend. You’re finally discovering the truth about the universe. You finally understand what you’re truly dealing with. That is good. But, understand this. Every time you tear through the Dread, slaughter Hive, you participate in this great cosmic game that me and The Gardener have been playing for eons. Isn’t that wonderful? Don’t you take pleasure in it with every bullet and arrow you fire, every swing from your blade? Oh you definitely do, for I know what you are. I know who you are, and I’ll be seeing you soon.

[@Shiinobiiii]

Below is pretty much what everyone is looking for, it’ll take some time to read but I'm sure it’ll be worth it.. :) The Witness The First Knife, was the travelers first chosen but when the traveler left to raise other civilizations it left The Wiitness and its people with no purpose feeling betrayed an they then chose and accectped the darkness, The Winnower…becoming The Winnowers chosen, The First knife, The Winnowers first and strongest weapon against the The Traveler to pierce its heart. The Guardian on the other hand was the last chosen by The Traveler (but the one who is meant to put a balance to the light and dark/flower game). Though The Traveler stuck by us, it never communes and leaves the Guardian and the other people chosen by it with a feeling of skepticism and maybe that we are being used, but that proved not to be the case as Travelers only known way of communication is through metaphorical and metaphysical constructs that it uses to meticulously and covertly guide us, it subtly shows the guardian how to fend for itself with its powers against the forces of dark but the biggest problem is that it never sought to establish a much closer connection with the Guardian or any of those which it chose and so the Guardian leaves half of its foot in the the light. The Gardener purposely does not commune as it values freewill, has already foreseen through precognition the outcome flower game and it knows by not doing so would leave the guardian to be more curious of the nature of the universe which then when lightfall started it began with the guardian stepping its other foot in the dark (Bungie even nods to this by saying “one foot in the light and one in the dark”) to test the waters, to understand more about the forces of behind its world, and it would all be to set the the player up to become The Gaurdian of the flower game, A Guardian of light and darkness.

[@thealldayspecial]

So I always had a long theory that Invitation to the Nine Week 5 all the way back in Season of the Drifter wasn't the silly 4th wall break goof that a lot of people thought it was but specifically referring to us as "the Guardian" that we have the Chosen One Space Jesus powers and the "she/he can leave this game" is referential to the Flower Game. I highly recommend a revisit to those lore bits because it was a rare situation of Bungie doing a ton of foreshadow that did eventually get payoffs(Drifter, Exo, Eris on Europa was mentioned in week 1, Week 3 is Mara destroying Pyramids on the downlow, and some other odds and ends). I say this with no irony that season is one of the best for the lore books alone and cut scenes.

[@Mythhammer]

The Winnower may be an aspect of the foundations of the universe itself. It and the Gardener may predate the current universe. The Light and the Dark are simply physical aspects of their mental ideologies.

[@andvan5171]

Huh, I had a feeling after we killed the witness that the winnower would show up. The witness didn’t seem like a big baddie.

[@archangelhaze5717]

It's from another universe if you go from the lore side as the tablet alound oryx to to travel between them.

[@cgon33]

What if the gardener, isn’t the traveler? What if there’s a force above it?

[@brmawe]

Here's the problem with trying to lace these ruthless ideas, principles, etc on are Guardian: They've never worked.

[@Psion_Phoenix]

It could be possible that like the Witness was an avatar of the darkness, could the traveller be an avatar of the light but not the source? And could frontiers be us going out into the universe to find these forces of existence? I doubt it but I don’t think the traveler is *the* light, just as the witness is not *the* darkness.

[@cutthegrass_yt]

Everything in Destiny revolves around the sword logic. As much as we want to romanticize guardians being the good guy, we've been following the sword logic from the beginning. Kill, become more powerful. We've even learned our enemy's abilities to become more powerful to kill everything more powerful than us. The sword logic is inescapable.

[@anariel_peredhil91]

Will we collect all tablets like we did with Nezarec's Remnants? And maybe put them together after going on another wild hunt to collect materials for the ritual and maybe that will lead to Oryx's Return? Or to us getting a Winnover Vision similar to the one we had with the Witness on the Moon which will lead into The Beyond Story?

[@garrettviewegh9028]

At one point, the narrative set us up to kill the entire Hive pantheon. I believe we still will, Xivu may die to Caital as we take back Torrobaital. The Worm Gods may be hunted to death as the Ahamkara were. But Savathun? She may be the last to die. I don’t see Oryx coming back, not fully.

[@garrettviewegh9028]

The Winnower exists, and if we are to meet him, will we meet the Gardner too? What will she have to say to us? Will she have any insight? Recent lore reveals the Traveler and Veil are sources of Light and Darkness. But the Winnower and Gardner are separate to Light and Dark. Rather they are the players in either side of the chessboard. Moving us like chess pieces. Sitting behind the Light and Darkness like veils. So, what happens if we were to kill them? Perhaps we must, if we are to make our own fate, define our own Destiny.

[@cvg101]

Soylent Green IS people...

[@ihwb3005]

UGH I DESPERATELY WANT TO KNOW IF HERESY IS WORTH BUYING BUT I DONT WANNA GET SPOILEDDD

[@warcryme4176]

So far, yes, for now…

[@MythicFish]

It is definitely worth it so far. The nostalgia and update is nice. The lore and story is really what Im always staying for. I can get the gameplay fun from other games

[@thearabianlord]

who is the woman in the picture i saw here picture twice in eris morn room and edz

[@TheJayBollman]

Tbh fk that. Nope. Nuh-uh. Idc what loot it has - No sir. Not touching that.

[@ExiILe00]

So is the One Piece,apparently.

[@skinnybepis9579]

Idk if im alone on this but the constant changing of how the hive became the hive or how oryx learned to take kinda feels like retconnning and less like new revelations. Like we went from thinking he learned to take from akka in the deep to finding out the witness was the original master of the taken and baited the worm gods into deceiving the sisters and having rhulk beat the shit out of the leviathan thus causing the traveler to run away. And now it's oh no the witness was just the vice president and possibly his boss was the one who maybe taught oryx to take and all this shit. Probably explained that really poorly but it's a little confusing. If the witness was the knife, at what point did the winnower start cutting? Before it became the witness or did it instruct the witness to use the veil?

[@lifeinjersey9846]

You're not alone. It's kind of the reason I stopped paying attention and reading all the lore. Its constant changes and retcons at every turn. You learn something and then next season its changed. Its kinda obvious bungie is just making stuff up as they go and its just underwhelming at this point.

[@ascendantindigo271]

These "new" bosses look like "pussies". This "Destiny" is hollow and void of any actual Taken King Mystery.

[@architectmind3662]

Let me implement a rule... Don't follow rules... Playing stupid word games...

[@warmpickle358]

Second

[@peytonsonofaaron115]

5th

[@kaiserhademar5126]

Wrong, Winnower is the veil

[@Jacksonmontyart]

I think the veil is the winnowers “ship” or throne world, the same way the traveler is the gardeners

[@blam320]

I don't think so. I think the Traveller and Veil are two halves of the Gardener. The body/powers of the physical universe and the mind/powers of the psychic universe. Both are needed for complex life, and nothing about the Veil lends it to being the tool of the Winnower.

[@jimboyjoe645]

​@blam320 The veil is the traveler's counterpart but for the darkness so obviously it is

[@garrettviewegh9028]

@@blam320I believe Osiris theorized that the Traveler and Veil are separate to the Gardner and Winnower. They are scource of light and darkness. While Guardians are the Gardner’s knife, and the Witness and those that follow the Sword Logic, are the Winnower’s.

[@Rafferty-z5r]

If the winnower does become an actual physical being and an enemy I beg bungie don’t fumble the design for him, the witness design was such a huge let down imo, nothing about it made me feel intimidated or scared of it, Does anyone remember in the taken king campaign before you arrive at the oryx boss you enter his throne and it was pitch black, aside from this weird orange glow that you could just barely see, aside you walk further you thought oryx was gonna deadass jump scare you, eventually oryx makes his appearance and is the cause for the darkness around the room, by far the greatest villain entrance in destiny history and made oryx one of the terrifying villains ever, Even Crota and xol the worm god while one of them that being xol didn’t have a scary design to them their voices was truly something scary. Point is bungie don’t fumble the winnower this guy gotta look scary asf

[@phillemon7664]

The Winnower needs to be a raid final boss at least.

[@Jacksonmontyart]

Have you seen the concept art of the red witness ? It’s on ArtStation, way more intimidating

[@10THPROPHET]

I highly doubt the Winnower would be an enemy as it has shown no intent on attacking the Traveler. The pyramid fleet and the Witness had their own agencies and were just crybabies that used the Darkness to do horrible things

[@jelqsauce7485]

Holy fuck unveiling destroyed destinys lore