Evangelion Episode 25: Shinji's Guilt

Evangelion is a roller coaster of emotional distress that will take you to the limits of sanity.

[@Ritzzngiggles]

I love this scene because it shows how we are with our consciousness. We know we did wrong but we rationalize it and lie, which is where the anger starts

[@MrSammyBoy7]

Exactly...because we all try to justify our actions to feel less guilty

[@prrrromotiongiven1075]

MrSammyBoy7 I'm all for the psychological interpretations of Eva, but I think Shinji had a pretty good excuse for killing Kaworu. Certainly, I think it was better than the alternative (assuming there was no way Kaworu could prevent himself from reuniting with Adam - an urge, if you will, that could not be suppressed nor ignored). It sounds a bit harsh to say he's just trying to feel less guilty or that he's rationalizing it - it was already the rational decision to make.

[@BenjinWS]

+PrrrromotionGiven Agreed. It was the rational decision to make. Even Kaworu knew this before he died. He straight up said that it should not be Shinji/humanity to be the ones to die.

[@ryhanzfx1641]

Exact-frickin-ly!

[@mercenaryknight5419]

+PrrrromotionGiven, except that to Shinji, he viewed Kaworu as a dear friend, an anchor to hold onto when he was pushed to the edge and that he was like Rei, so killing him tears him up on the inside.

[@enk335]

this scene is so painful. Kaworu, the only person who ever told Shinji he was loved, asked Shinji to kill him. Not only has Shinji lost the one thing he needed the most, but he also blames himself despite the entire thing being SEELE's scheme and Kaworu himself asking for it. This show is incredible.

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Why do people blame Shinji?

[@mauriciomeireles1210]

​@@hawkeyenextgen7117because even thought he is wholly traumatized and only a kid he was, ironically, the only one capable of doing something... But thats the point, there wasnt a right answer and he could never choose something that wouldnt traumatize him. Aaaaaaaaand thats evangelion folks!

[@someone-pe3yt]

This scene hits harder once i realized that kaworu was Adam's soul, he was the first and last.

[@ho11owtsuki]

I just finished Neon Genesis and I have to say this scene gets me every time. The regret, the grief, and the guilt in his voice is all too real. One of the greatest anime of all time.

[@ho11owtsuki]

Shit finna have me depressed for a while

[@u.a.perfectace7786]

ADV dub got better as the series progressed and the cast really hit thier stride despite the limitations of 90s. Khara isnt a big fan of anything less than a literal translation nowdays. Certainly the ADV dub isnt perfect but....it has a certain charm to it. Also the series message was still conveyed properly even with some creative differences in translation. This scene with how Spike Spencer was able to convey Shinji's pain, anger, doubt, and denial as if it was genuinely his own is amazing. Its fucking shame the core cast of the ADV dub has not been able to voice the characters again.

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Shinji was guiltless. He was forced to take the blame for something that was beyond his control.

[@MrSammyBoy7]

Well I think its Shinji himself asking the questions. It's his guilty conscious...he's trying to convince himself that he had to do it for the sake of humanity.

[@DiegoRuiz1991]

... but he had to though. Shinji's thought process would be justified if there was reasonable doubt or if it had been proven Kaworu was just messing with him.

[@seamus927]

REALLLYYY??!!

[@yamato6114]

One of the most surreal moments is that a psychologically horrifying moment for this character ended up becoming a meme

[@misslangleysoryuisiconic]

Why did you kill him? *D E P R E S S I O N C H A I R*

[@pepitopacquiao]

Japanese Text Writter: Can you move it along? I'm all out of title cards.

[@RickyCheung-ds8zd]

the famous chair scene

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Seeing Shinji suffering is like seeing myself suffer, because at one point in time I was almost exactly like him, especially back in 10th grade when I was bullied to the brink of suicide. I simply cannot tolerate watching Eva. I felt forced to relive my trauma upon viewing it. I’m deathly afraid of it. Twice I had a nightmare where I saw myself as Shinji choking Asuka and starting the Third Impact. I’ve been struggling with this newfound depression ever since. Evangelion is nothing but a bright shining lie. There is no instant cure for depression as so many on KZbin and Reddit claimed and praised this series to be. I was obsessed with the series for over a year to try and outwit the Coronavirus pandemic. It only increased the burden, and kept the memory of my friend’s recent suicide alive. Sometimes I hate myself because I fail to appreciate this series which people treat larger than life, because of how much pain it resurfaces. Watching the End of Evangelion was like peering into a broken mirror, and I was viewing the hell I would’ve put myself through had things turned out differently, had I decided to give up living. It still haunts me to this day. Sometimes I hate myself because I fail to appreciate what so many have claimed to idolize, and I beat myself further for failing to worship what they call praiseworthy, I forced myself to watch a show that reminded me of nothing but pain just so I wouldn’t be alone anymore. But it only drove me closer to suicide… After everything I’ve been through I’m afraid to lose Shinji.

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Neon Genesis Evangelion nearly drove me to suicide. Sometimes I hate myself because I fail to appreciate what so many have claimed to idolize, and I beat myself further for failing to worship what they call praiseworthy, I forced myself to watch a show that reminded me of nothing but pain just so I wouldn’t be alone anymore, I was willing to sacrifice my individuality for some company amidst the isolation of the pandemic. But it only spiraled me deeper into depression, which I’ve been struggling with for over a year now. I just want Shinji to be happy, so this past self of mine can be laid to rest once more. I’m afraid to decouple myself from him after losing my friend to suicide, which Eva made me feel responsible for, especially when I saw Shinji kill Kaworu, of which I fail to understand how anyone can call it praiseworthy. Until then, I feel nothing else matters. There’s a reason why I keep coming back to Evangelion; something that reminds me of nothing but pain. I want to prove to myself I’m not crazy for feeling this way, that Evangelion really did force me to relive my trauma, that my depression is not just a figment of my imagination or another anime plot point But the fact I’m the only one I know in existence who’s been traumatized by an anime makes me feel like I really am crazy. Whenever I feel this way, there’s something I remind myself with. “There are no answers in Evangelion, only illusions. There is no truth in Evangelion, only falsehoods. There is nothing to be gained from Evangelion, only pain.” But finally, with 3.0+1.0 released, I can rest easy knowing that Shinji has finally reached the light at the end of the tunnel. Evangelion is finished, and I want it to remain that way. But if things hadn’t turned out that way, I wouldn’t be here today. I’m still recovering…

[@kazuhachi952]

Dont quit. Be good or dont be!. If you know you it doesn't give you instant cure for depression than dont pinpoint your mindset like it does.

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

@@hawkeyenextgen7117 If so, just let it happen man.... Seems like the option to go with death.

[@ssssssssssssssssssssssssssszzz]

they say it cures depression??? what???!! watching it actually made my sadness transform into depression (and later goodnight pun pun aggravated it but that's another stoy)

[@digitalcthulhu143]

Damn bro do you spam this in all the evangelion videos? It's always the same comment with you lmao

[@dotsmoe]

it's really hard when it comes to realizing your mistakes and knowing how big they are

[@zarkusnarfroy4604]

Someone get this man a damn therapist

[@mercenaryknight5419]

I would love there into be in the final Rebuild mental moments like this, be like a mix of the original ending and End Of Evangelion.

[@Syfoll]

Hahahahaha

[@mercenaryknight5419]

@@Syfoll No actual argument? Thanks for the laugh, scrub. XD

[@sweetcinnamonpnchkin]

That would be great. Does anyone know if we,ll get the OG cast back? I know a lot came back for the first two Rebuilds. Waiting for the last Rebuild has been nerve grating.

[@lukeg8466]

We did get an awesome mental moment with Gendo, easily the best part of the film. I didn't think it was as good as either of the OG endings but it was nice that Anno was finally able to come to peace with Evangelion.

[@ReichLife]

@@lukeg8466 Until he needs to milk it, again.

[@ねこサンわんサン]

声優うまいな、しかも声もめっちゃ似てる

[@angelofdarkness9547]

Nge English dubb Is just so wholesome.❤

[@itami2049]

I believe simply existing, is a form torture

[@MrSammyBoy7]

You mustn't run away

[@Supdude.]

This scene is amazing

Siempre he querido un debate más profundo en torno a las primeras escenas de este episodio, lamentablemente son tan cortas que es un tanto difícil encontrar un análisis o una pequeña opinión. Es como si nos centráramos más en el desarrollo y final del los capítulos 25 y 26 y nos olvidamos rápidamente del comienzo de estos episodios. Podemos hablar fácilmente de una "Racionalización Freudiana", pero yo pienso que hay algo mucho más profundo en lo que significa la imagen de Kaworu para Shinji. Yo quiero saber realmente porqué se despierta esta culpa en Shinji siente esta culpa tras asesinar a Kaworu.

[@franciscodeaguirre1754]

¿cómo por qué se despierta esa culpa? si él no quería matarlo de entrada, el capítulo 24 ya termina así, no despertó esa culpa de repente.

[@captainjobo]

yeah, that is true. here's to hoping rebuild has an even better ending than both.

[@heyz185]

still wondering who is asking those questions... his mother?

[@YABUKIJOE2077]

heyz185 himself.

[@nikostrydum7343]

The Clone Of His Mother

[@mercenaryknight5419]

@@nikostrydum7343 Rei is far beyond that. Besides, she is mostly a clone of Lilith.

[@MrSammyBoy7]

@captainjobo Haha yeah well its a shame that the budget for the series ran out but you do take away something from these two episodes and that is to keep living and shape your own reality. In a way tho i kinda like this ending a bit better than the end of evangelion because it ends on a happier note compared to the movie were he's choking Asuka

[@linkly9272]

honestly idk if this is a happier note or not. like, the events in the movie were infinitely worse, but it just felt more... hopeful in a sense by the end of it all. idk

[@GreenDbz]

well this ending and eoe are both canon

[@Malicious_Spectrum]

Get in the fucking chair, Shinji.

[@nickpancost6858]

Opening Scene (Evangelion: Season 8 Episode 55: An Angel All Star Battle)

[@kirbytsukinoXD]

0:31 ¡NO HABÍA OTRA OPCIÓN! ¿Porqué lo mataste? ¡Porque era un ángel, Kaworu era un ángel! ¿Aunque que era humano también? ¡Seguía siendo un ángel! ¡Seguía siendo uno de los enemigos! ¿Aunque era un humano, como tú? ¡No lo era, no lo era, no lo era! Aunque era un humano, como yo... ¡No, era un ángel! ¿Por eso lo mataste? ¡Si! ¡Todos nosotros íbamos a morir! ¡Seríamos destruidos! ¿Así que es por eso lo mataste? ¡No quería matarlo! ¡No tuve elección!

[@kirbytsukinoXD]

ES POR ESO QUE LO MATASTE. Ayúdame... ES POR ESO QUE LO MATASTE. Porfavor sólo ayúdame... ES POR ESO QUE LO MATASTE. ¡POR EL AMOR DE DIOS AYÚDAME! ES POR ESO QUE LO MATASTE. ¡Por favor alguien ayúdeme! ES POR ESO QUE LO MATASTE. ¿¡ALGUIEN ME ESCUCHA!?, PORFAVOR AYÚDENME!

[@wa7saka]

the classical music

[@captainjobo]

these episodes, man. tl;dr eveywhere.

[@chuuyanakahara3595]

I’m gonna have a mental breakdown abt this kater

[@ephemeraltimekeeper8127]

I’m a cookie run kingdom fan so here’s a meme I found out (This happened literally) Me: gets stardust cookie’s epic costume *realizes I don’t own stardust cookie yet* Me: 0:57

[@yrenalantigua301]

Shigi gilt the angel

[@lucaslover2077]

Relatable

[@HinaOWU]

anyone watching this in 2022?

[@MrSammyBoy7]

You know it

[@JM-wb8rq]

Same here. Still a great scene

[@1.4142]

chair

[@youth5358]

this…

[@ashleeeey90]

song ?

[@alexxzen8043]

Beethoven's 9th Symphony. (The part in the video is 7 minutes in)

[@sasisuseso5597]

何故殺した

[@kirbytsukinoXD]

¡Lo hice porque Kaworu, Kaworu era un ángel!

[@rieru5894]

I really hate english dub...but still love the scene of course

[@mercenaryknight5419]

I actually love it. ^^

[@Naseem-fl3zt]

Which English dub , the original or Netflix dub ?

[@dr4552]

@@Naseem-fl3zt the netflix dub didnt existed two years ago....

[@Zie_H]

F#ck where the japan voice

[@iannniss201]

THIS VA ON DUB IS SO BAD

[@rohitkalaikumar3059]

The fucking dub ruins it all. Sorry.

[@linkly9272]

not really. i'm not a fan of dubs usually but some of them are good like this one, you just gotta get used to hearing the english voices considering you most definitely watched the same thing in another language beforehand. basically, you're just biased in favor of what you already are used to. and honestly i can't really blame you for it, happens to everyone for many reasons.

[@Miri_the_1st]

@@linkly9272 exactly I watched an anime first time sub and when I heard the English version I thought it was horrible but I just realized it was bias but I still prefer sub on that anime even though usually I’m too lazy for sub

[@mondiramaji791]

I actually like the dub here. There’s so much emotion here.

[@fawkes.6820]

The classical music really make this scene good

[@koppii2]

What's the name of the music?

[@yangliu9214]

@@koppii2 Evangelion - Rahbari - Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th Movement "Ode to Joy" you can find it on youtube

[@koppii2]

@@yangliu9214 already find it after i replied the comment, but thank you

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

It's, also, the anthem of a certain secret organisation.

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

It's about the brotherhood of man. That is Schiller's "Ode to Joy".

[@user-drdestiny]

the fact that a piece of music associated with joy is playing while a boy is in a state of psychosis is horrifyingly brilliant

[@trevorpgamer1936]

whats the music then im curious

[@user-drdestiny]

@@trevorpgamer1936 Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th Movement "Ode to Joy"

[@lizliz8786]

Not only is they title " ode to joy" is the somg that was playing in the backround when they met

[@yonkraccoon4834]

I don't find brilliance in the simple dissonance of it. I find it brilliant because it suggests that there IS joy somewhere in this situation, either in the past or during this speech.

[@riyazandrabi6293]

The use of "ode to joy" , kaworu appearing and him mentioning humans as Lilins was the perfect foreshadowing of what was about to come and set up the ending perfectly.

[@cyberaids9115]

This was the first anime I’ve ever watched and I just watched it thinking it was just big robots fighting big monsters but oh man was I wrong... I was so very wrong

[@watcos_indoncaumawt]

Stop coping the comment

[@grimnirthehoodedone3354]

This scene is fucking me up man, I’m tearing up just watching this.

[@capitaineakihabara2957]

This is the kind of reasoning that is used in genocides and wars : denhumanazing other people, so you don't feel guilt. Oh I know it's obvious but shut up I wanted to say it :D

[@sadi5430]

he does have a good reason for killing him though

[@hermitcrb256]

@@sadi5430 Shinji did have a good reason but I think he meant that by dehumanizing kaworu as an angel makes him feel less guilty about it

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Seeing Shinji suffering is like seeing myself suffer, because at one point in time I was almost exactly like him, especially back in the day when I was bullied to the brink of suicide. I simply cannot tolerate watching Eva. I felt forced to relive my trauma upon viewing it. I’m deathly afraid of it. Twice I had a nightmare where I saw myself as Shinji choking Asuka and starting the Third Impact. I’ve been struggling with this newfound depression ever since. This series is nothing but a bright shining lie. There is no instant cure for depression as so many on KZbin and Reddit claimed and praised this series to be. I was obsessed with the series for over a year to try and outwit the Coronavirus pandemic. It only increased the burden, and kept the memory of my friend’s recent suicide alive. Sometimes I hate myself because I fail to appreciate this series which people treat larger than life, because of how much pain it resurfaces. Sometimes it makes me feel like it was my fault instead of theirs.

[@sadi5430]

@@hermitcrb256 makes it easier to kill him l suppose

[@DiegoRuiz1991]

... except this time it's accurate and 100% justified, Kaworu HAD TO BE KILLED

[@BillyBillyandMandyReal]

I came here for funny chair pose why is it so messed up

[@gneuis]

my intrusive thoughts telling me that i'll never get good at any skills i want to master

[@Termina2018]

0:46 Shut up, Lilith 😤

[@hikikomori007]

I’m someone who typically prefers the VSI/Netflix Dub over the ADV Dub, but goddamn, that part at the end where Shinji is begging for help from someone is fucking CHILLING in the ADV Dub.

[@wa7saka]

why did you kill him? that’s why you killed him

[@D.MoneyTheGoat]

1:00 the chair meme hahahahah

[@billwithesciencefi5466]

The fact that i relate so much to shinji is troubling, the somebody help me and anybody help me is something i find myself doing way too often

[@Kirokill1]

How are you now?

[@lovepotions]

poor shinji :(

[@YeshCrafty]

Me having a short Shinji moment in class Always thinking about reality, space, atoms, and things that are literally in the cosmos Man i hate overthinking Help me...

[@MrSammyBoy7]

Picture the class saying congratulations

[@YeshCrafty]

@@MrSammyBoy7thanks Like Einstein said "Imagination is much more powerful than knowledge"

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Shinji did nothing wrong. He is guiltless

[@fergusonover604]

Being honest this is probably one of the most unnerving things I've seen That scream for help, not knowing an answer, constant internal contradiction, pushing up a question we don't know a right answer to That's mind hell right there. I was sobbing and shaking by the end... I felt anxious myself

[@cenoier]

now i am here after finishing episode 25 boy how i wish there is an explanation it's all confusing

[@GreenGoblinCoryintheHouse]

Consume the EOE pill

[@cheezyguy7119]

The final noise sounds like fart with reverb.

[@G_Matto_shorts]

When i'm shitting i'm in the same pose

[@oreo5047]

Me when the shit hurts:

[@indomartracist3731]

I still don't understand why this episode has to be in english when i download the sub

[@PhoenixLightness]

Is it wrong that i laughed i dont watch this anime so 💀😭

[@Madao-the_fallen_angel_samurai]

Watching dubbed anime with subtitles on...

[@filipinogaineembalsado7732]

0:55 meme just started to rise

[@ExtraSpace62]

SHIIIIINJIIIIII

[@gexgaming4574]

I LOVE YOU MR SAMMY BOY

[@lolygue]

oh my god this is my first time hearing the dub make it stop

[@kaederuka-]

Shit that hits hard

[@spencerwilson3298]

He's probably tormented because he loved him.

[@qwiizs]

can sum1 pls tell me what chapter in manga is the sitting on the chair scene?

[@pingas469]

he sounds like chris chan in this

[@Ray-bk2ux]

We just made a man who is sad into a meme

[@bulebulebule12]

！！

[@jackbrain9945]

Poor shinji

[@lukafanatic1816]

Fatherlessness runs hot in this one

[@johanser9476]

Song?

[@nickpancost6858]

Symphony No 9 4th Movement - Beethoven

[@DiegoRuiz1991]

This part makes me feel a great disconnect with Shinji - The whole "dehumanizing so you can kill" and "it was me or him so I killed him" are BAD tricks when they're not accurate but this time they were perfectly precise. Kaworu wasn't truly human and either he died or the whole humankind would've died. There's no dilemma, only a dumbass would think there was one. If anything, the fault in Shinji is that he HUMANIZES Kaworu. In a way, it's like a version of that one recurring joke in CinemaSins: "the power of GAY boners". I don't care if some smart hot girl loves me and such; if she's a threat for humankind and such, she's going up in flames as soon as I get to her. Some rough moments by Shinji and Asuka during the show are justified. Shit like responsibility, self value and just seeing everyone around you suffer are legit causes of distress. Killing something that is NOT human and is threatening all of mankind is peanuts, I'd do it 5 times a day for the rest of my life if I had to. I'd probably kill a human with 0% remorse if he was that big of a threat. Wouldn't you all have killed the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and such if you had had the chance? Get real.

[@basementreviewer788]

ok edgelord, chill.

[@Gumbizzle12]

You say all this as if you are devoid of emotions and connections. Shinji is clearly a emotionally unstable kid. When he finally connects with someone, he’s met with the reality that he must be the one to take that thing away himself. It’s would be a hard choice for anyone, and again he’s a child. Cant expect him to be a stoic hero when that’s just not what is realistic.

[@DiegoRuiz1991]

@@Gumbizzle12 - As I said before, Kaworu is NOT human (you can't dehumanize him) and he is a proper threat to humankind. If you can't kill someone like that, you're the problem, not whoever is telling you to do it.

[@bingusbongus1912]

@@DiegoRuiz1991 the whole point of this scene is that while kaworu is not fully human in the conventional sense, he has a human body and mind, he was born (well, cloned, but since kaworu wasn't being used as a pilot by seele until he went to nerv it's likely that he hadn't "died" before and is the original clone) and he is just as human as rei is, if not, even more human. shinji is having a justifiable moral dilemma here, convincing himself that killing kaworu was the right thing to do, and maybe it was in the grand scheme of things, but he was too human for shinji to not feel distressed over it. after all kaworu realised that he didn't even want the angels to replace humanity, and chose to die instead, which is just further proof of his own humanity.

[@DiegoRuiz1991]

​@@bingusbongus1912 - It doesn't matter what he LOOKS like, Shinji eventually knew exactly what he was and what that meant. Again, killing him should be EASIER than even something like killing a serial killer after having been friends. I compare Shinji's situation to what dozens of 14-year-old future pro athletes of a dangerous sport such as motor racing (specially motorbikes) go through every year. There's a moment where you need to accept shit's dangerous and might include friends and strangers dying around, sometimes even linked to your own actions. Just this year, 14-year-old Hugo Millan was run over and killed after he had a small crash in a racing series. Some kid his age ran him over by accident and killed him. They rarely quit or slow down at all. In 2020, 19-year-old Jason Dupasquier suffered a similar death in a Moto3 World Championship event. He was ran over and killed by fellow 19-year-old Ayumu Sasaki. In real-life, people get over accidentally killing innocent people, let alone killing World-ending dangers.

[@jxjxdied]

judgement day 😳

[@yanshiighgvjh]

Dont watch evangelion on netflix... ye its kinda bad

[@Miri_the_1st]

It’s not it’s absolutely fine also this video is the original

[@weakpistol]

I already watched it before I saw this comment 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@kotetsukaburagii]

poor shinji, he really did love Kaworu and yet he had to kill him because he was an angel

[@teniro712]

holy the dub is sucks