Every Ableton tutorial is WRONG about this

[@soundbandit]

miss your vids, always the best topics and presentation, straightforwardness. hope u are doing well and working on something you love!

[@superlynx98]

He's back!

[@soundbandit]

@@superlynx98 lets go!!

[@AnimusInvidious]

Hey! Thanks so much for linking to my Neutral Dry/Wet Rack, and going into such technical detail! You are mega fantastic!

[@eagleflies8681]

YOU are fantastic! Thank you!

[@imsohappy8542]

YOU are breathtaking!

[@josealejandrogarciarojas1115]

I use it everyday. Thanks smm

[@Tarro57]

Hi Dylan, just wanted you to know your content was and is some of my favorite music content on KZbin. I miss your videos but hope you are doing well nonetheless :)

[@vintyprod]

damn I miss this guy. if only i could show him how much i've progressed in production :')

[@markehlpetersen1040]

Fr I miss him too😢

[@equiaux]

same

[@skarryprankhunter]

What happened to him?

[@WublerDublerCubler]

@@skarryprankhunterhe died (idk I’m most likely wrong)

[@skarryprankhunter]

@@WublerDublerCubler wait, WHAT???? Where did you get this information?

[@Karabast]

hope you find the milk soon dad

[@megaaziib]

We miss you 😢

[@alexsoundstuff]

yo. put a compressor on the end of the chain and expand the view to show sidechain settings, put the ratio to 0 (were not actually compressing, and you can use any ableton plugin which accepts a sidechain input; i just use the compressor) set the sidechain to "rack title here pre fx" click the little headphone button (its intended purpose is previewing your sidechain source, but in this circumstance it will be used as the dry signal) and use the mix knob thats adjacent to the sidechain gain knob. bada bing bada boom

[@offchristianamr]

this is actually brilliant lol. really clever solution. i can’t test it right now, so i’m wondering, will rendering out the audio actually render it as it sounds with the preview button ticked?

[@DylanTallchief]

I tried that just yesterday but it still has +3dB at 50% (when testing with an empty rack/no effects)😩 Still very cool and ingenious method tho. Maybe there's a solution to that too.

[@alexsoundstuff]

@@DylanTallchief hmm. what about a utility and then a compressor inside the rack, and mapping the utility's gain, the compressor sidechain's mix and gain to one macro. you might be able to make a neutral dry/wet with that setup. i just love the compressor method so much cause you dont get the visual clutter of two parallel chains lol

[@Carsian]

WE MISSED YOU DYLAN

[@kiraaofthedust8123]

I wonder if Dylan will ever come back. I've been checking in every couple weeks just to see if he has haha. Damn. The man literally revolutionised my perspective on music and made me motivated when he was around. Sad to see him not upload in 9 months :( I hope you're doing well Dylan :)

[@tackn3490]

what the hell happened to him? Where can I find out? Twitter has also stopped, right?

[@garx0]

if you're curious, you can hear the gain error of the neutral rack by playing a sine right below digital clipping level (and see that the volume goes up and down twice), but it still has a great precision for any usage case even for a perfectionist like me

[@imicca]

hope you are live man ;( miss you

[@markehlpetersen1040]

Still waiting for you, Gary come home

[@mayllerronam]

It’s been over a year of vacation Dylan! Come back to YT hommie we miss your videos! 😢

[@bhavyakukkar]

I've known about this phenomenon for a long time but I always assumed its because the net amplitude of two signals is greater than their sum, not because there is literally an inconsistency in the mapping of the knob and the amplitude

[@SianaGearz]

The crossfade curve for two fully correlated and fully uncorrelated signals is different, and I would also assume they picked the wrong one, as dry wet signals should be generally highly corellated. The difference should I believe come out to 3db. Whether this line of reasoning applies to this case, or whether they actually mismapped the knobs, I can't judge.

[@bhavyakukkar]

@@SianaGearz I think it probably does because I would expect it to be more straightforward for the programmer to map it right. The curve modified for the explanation at 1:38 somewhat confused me I suppose

[@SwiftDreamer]

Dylan you are an absolute Unit for Jukeblocks. Thanks for sharing the blog!

[@skarryprankhunter]

For those wondering why he stopped posting, NO, he's NOT actually dead, he said on his Patreon that he's been working on Jukeblocks full time, and that's why he stopped making videos for a while.

[@WolfmanDude]

Good to hear, I was just starting to get concerned while reading the comments under this video!

[@skarryprankhunter]

@@WolfmanDude yep... although we still don't know when of if he will post again...

[@Alckemy]

Interestingly, I’ve never seen it done with the chain mix. Usually I make a 100% wet verb chain and turn it way down until I find a proper mix instead. However, this could be useful when stacking filters on a bass since they don’t have a dry/wet knob.

[@kritischparken]

i love these technical daw videos, they are simply very interesting, im a fl user and this is still a great video, ur channels so unique man! keep it up

[@oneki_hub]

it is not necessary to bet on 127 units. You can do exactly 100 units to make it even. It is also possible at point 1 to completely turn off the wet signal, and at point 100 turn off all dry

[@artwes]

No way it has almost been a year

[@garishanth]

I saw you on the Netflix docu-series “Heist”.

[@maximrowan9339]

Just wow! Not many people go in such details. I, however, prefer to never use dry/wet knob and always mix the wet signal to the original through the rack. But I can see how useful the knob is for those who perform live and for those who just like to use dry/wet knob

[@AundoMusic]

Interesting how I literally came across the mix knob problem recently and immediately noticed the same issue. My work around was exactly what was explained here... neat.

[@zeronamagem8617]

Love ur vids dude hope we see some more in the future but you do you. Much love homie

[@AziDoesQuestionableThings]

yknow dylan is cooking something GARGANTUAN when hes been gone for this long

[@mlotmadeit7291]

it's so dope that people take the time to dissect this technical stuff so that others can focus on actually being creative

[@Unit27]

One feature I would love to have in Live is the ability to edit mapping curves, not just min and max values. They could add different fading curves similar to the ones in the crossfader, but they would not account for complex rack setups. Having a mapping curve tool would make fixing stuff like this and adding much more functionality to devices really easy. There are M4L tools like SMART that allow you to do it, but I'd love it if it was native.

[@namestage6]

each effect WHAT!?!?! 0:11

[@garx0]

5:31 ableton shows the values on the screen more rounded than they actually are. you can type in different values that are rounded to N digits identically, but the results will be still different. it works like that with tempo, and i've probably seen the same behaviour with macros mapping bounds

[@DylanTallchief]

I noticed this with Utility and other knobs, but it seems mapping is the only one that actually rounds the value? At least that was the only conclusion I could come up with.

[@garx0]

@@DylanTallchief just checked macro mapping of Auto Filter frequency, typing in xxxx.00 and xxxx.04 values in Hz as macro mapping bounds gives different results (i saw it by combining two results and seeing interference on the spectrogram). maybe not a versatile example though

[@AnimusInvidious]

The precision goes to 5 decimal places, though you do not see those values displayed.

[@luximperium4164]

ive found that most of the time, whenever using the chain method, i dont even do the fader knob thing. i usually just mess with the levels on each volume slider till i get it sounding good. why try to make a knob to copy a dry wet knob just for the sake of doing so, when an easier solution is available by just changing the volumes manually?

[@ryancollings]

I’ve taken to this too. Helps fight volume bias also.

[@malcolmkoharian]

bro where did you go (bars) we need you back in our life even a community post that says whats going on would be good (bars) but no pressure

[@nelsongander]

and then he disapeared

[@JackMajor]

You have been on a spree with the new features for the past three weeks and I appreciate you for your efforts in implementing my suggestions. Stayin' on da grind'! 💪

[@jansapega4988]

You're kinda cray cray since you did all this research. And I think there must be people locked in your basement that you test it on. But goddamn, I like that you dig in this type of stuff! Keep up the good work!

[@elementz018]

I’ve been aware of this problem for about 6 months now and the best solution I had regarding this involved third-party plugins. Free plugins, but third-party nonetheless. I used two Kilohearts “Gain” plugins, making sure to set their mode to linear/percentage-based. Setting everything else up is the same as making the typical dry-wet knob in Ableton. Also, a bit of a side note, but you can type in decimal values far past the one’s place. I tried making my own poor-man’s comb filter with the Ableton delay (so that I could remove the even-harmonics of a sound) and ultimately found that I could type to something like the ten-millionths place (7 decimal values down) on a macro knob/Ableton effect without it actually rounding (only visually). I guarantee that you can type something even smaller in, but I never really went much past 7 decimal values ‘cause I didn’t need to.

[@QuentinLeonetti]

tried this, works great!

[@steelex6740]

People who did hear things.... 😳

[@mdsnbutler1]

lmao I thought for sure the first beep was a bit louder. seeking help immediately

[@danceb4nine]

you could automate a utility -3 DB on the rack to compensate or something

[@bf2579]

Mannnn i hope u come back

[@Panic365]

YOOOOOOOOOOO UR ALIVE?!?! thanks for the knowledge btw

[@BINNE]

He's dead (Confirmed information)

[@skarryprankhunter]

source??

[@DylanTallchief]

I can confirm

[@skarryprankhunter]

​@@DylanTallchiefwait, WHAT? is this a troll or something?

[@BINNE]

​@@skarryprankhunterreal

[@skarryprankhunter]

@@DylanTallchief how's jukeblocks going?

[@neusoffline]

the amount of work you put into this bro, respect!

[@AziDoesQuestionableThings]

dylan has something cookin i can feel it

[@DinkyPattern1]

He's Back!

[@xilum2181]

Dylan, where did you go?, we miss your vids

[@DylanTallchief]

Still active, I just work on my website almost full time

[@Anonimbus]

@@DylanTallchief which website

[@iamdenioz]

RIP Mr.Wolfy

[@vincekronos]

dunno if you still do those, but would love a "How to Caravan Palace"-Video. They had quite a few bangers in the past like "Lone Digger". also i think they did some good-good on like electro-swing/neo-swing stuff or smth idk

[@messedupstudios4138]

You've GOT to do a how to sound like Pedestrian Tactics. They have SUCH a unique sound!

[@TSU_PIA]

Yo bro i saw your minecraft sweden remake video, i hope you will do a minecraft subwoofer lubally remake video i just want to see that really so much. I try to find out how to make remake it.

[@joshuawilliams5306]

This isn't a bug, it's called a constant power fade and is used all the time in audio. In most cases it sounds like a smooth transition in perceived loudness but in this example it has a 3dB boost in the middle because the signals are the exact same and don't undergo the destructive interference that would usually balance out the boost. That said it wouldn't be the worst idea for Ableton to add a constant gain fade option for specific use cases.

[@AnimusInvidious]

Sampler has constant power fades built in as a context menu option, so why don't racks? It's so weird.

[@elchupakabra6015]

Hi ! Hello ! How to make the Lead sound on VSTi, 100% EURODANCE sound, like in the KZbin track: " Activate - Spotlight (Extended Euro Instrumental) " ? Which synthesizer is this sound from ?

[@TjMoon91]

This is not a problem, at all. It’s actually what you want with a mix control. It’s only 3db louder if you fade between two identical signals. In reality, when you combine two different audio signals, you’re going to get phase differences, which will result in a signal quieter than if you simply doubled either of the signals. The variance in level depends hugely on the type of processing being mixed in, so it’s impossible to know how to compensate with a mix knob, but I’m sure that 3db was a very conscious decision by Ableton. Seems like a reasonable one to me.

[@MichaelBrunerMusic]

Another issue to address: PHASE Ableton rack are nearly useless given the fact that mixing between a dry and wet chain results in super obvious phasing between the signals. The only way around this is using a bypassed version of the plug-in you’re using on the wet chain for the dry chain. A major sound designer who worked on Power Tools 3 told me he left Ableton for Reaper for this reason alone. And they still haven’t fixed it years later 💀

[@AnimusInvidious]

Depends on which effect you are talking about. The PerforModule "ParallAux" pack includes devices that blend with clean phase.

[@MichaelBrunerMusic]

@@AnimusInvidious ohh for real? Is that a MaxforLive thing?

[@x-iso]

it's kind of stupid that Ableton still haven't got simple solution for this like Bitwig does (which was founded my ex-Ableton developers) with it's Mix knob on Chain or Layer device.

[@buddy94445]

Dylan Tallchief? More like Dylan Tall-leave haha am i right guys i'm not crying

[@offchristianamr]

this comment section is great, there’s a lot of really cool discussion happening in here. thanks for making this video dylan!

[@owlalex8534]

Dylan, we need some update for live enhancment suite for 11! Especially with auto closing asio4all like in FL. Will there be some LES changes at all?

[@DylanTallchief]

Probably not :( We don't work on it anymore (except making sure it still works on Windows) but it's open source in case anyone else wants to add things to it. While Asio4all auto closing would be cool, I doubt LES could even add something like that. I use FL Studio ASIO in Ableton just to avoid that issue lol

[@badwave]

oh god, that 0.01 db is always gonna be in the back of my mind now, haha. wonder if itd be possible for someone to come up with a max device with some sort of flattened out inverse volume curve that just dips it down by 3db in the middle.

[@richardbarr7173]

True, maybe they could use mapul8or

[@AnimusInvidious]

3.0103

[@highestinthedeck]

1:10 2 CHAAAINZ

[@Topsrek]

Yeah, audio waves can not be simply added together in dB space. What you hear is pressure (measured in Pascal or bar), but because this pressure ranges over multiple magnitudes (think like 0.0001 to 1000 Pa(scal)), you generally use dB (take the logarithm, with a reference pressure and some other stuff to make it all nice). When you want to add audio waves correctly, you have to transform into the pressure domain, add there and transform back to dB.

[@spudbencer7179]

bruh I just found this gem of a channel just to find out it's a dead one feels bonkers man

[@NAWN]

I don't use ableton but that was entertaining thanks for making another awesome video!

[@nehnehnehbatman]

Where did he go ..

[@nth7485]

How about using a return track instead?

[@MrKoraalrif]

Just gonna say I miss you, hope you're doing well!

[@vvvictoriav5958]

Redux was a weird example plug-in to show for “no mix knob” cos it has one now lol

[@ripkennymusic]

tbh save yourself the trouble of fiddling with chain selectors to create a dry/wet knob entirely, really don't need it! With both chains at 0db you have a 50% dry/wet mix and if you want more wet turn down the dry or vice versa. Simple + fast, regardless of how you achieve that balance you may need to adjust the track volume anyway

[@Andonchoto]

I need ti know if a simple effects patch can be read as a vst or something from fl in ableton?

[@samfisher01]

The fact ableton still doesn't have wet dry on all plugins or even an inbuilt wet dry rack to use is absolutely mind-blowing. Makes you wonder what the devs are doing with their time

[@thelouisbisson]

Add to that no VCA tracks and automation can be annoying to work with

[@Tristan_Willcox]

you good bro? miss your vids

[@NewMateo]

Cant believe you were taken from us so soon. May you R.I.P =[

[@tondin1]

Seriously?

[@boringahhchannel]

Yo bro, make vids about Open Source Daws

[@mudi2000a]

Real solution: use Bitwig Studio. All fx rack type devices have a mix knobs that works as expected 😉

[@mudi2000a]

@infoslinger that is definitely not true, i tried the free cakewalk and it aucks for me. When did you last check out Bitwig?

[@jhh764]

@infoslinger I've been an Ableton fanboy for 5 years but bitwig is the real deal. If I wasn't invested in Ableton already or if I was just starting out I would probably just use that tbh

[@DE3P_Beats]

Bitwig looks pretty janky to me, I'll stick with using mix knobs in FL Studio

[@CossEyed]

bro at least post something in the community tab

[@khent4098]

where u at?

[@MichaelTNewell]

Magnificent, thank you for sharing!

[@onaucc9899]

Missed opportunity to have a picture of 2 Chainz pop up every time you say "two chains"

[@plainoldcheese]

decibels is a scaling system so a 6db increase (or decrease) is equivalent to doubling (or halving) of the signal. we use decibels because that's more similar to the way we hear. this isn't an ableton issue. it's just how decibels work. if you have 2 tracks playing the exact same thing the volume will be 6db louder. Decibels are a logarithmic scale so you could try an set a logarithmic curve for the dry/wet mix and it might fix it, but the volume sliders are already dBs so they "should" be scaled like that already (that would then make it an ableton problem. lol)

[@beyondelectric]

pls how to Tchami am begging

[@treyhudson73]

Doesn't using sends create a wet/dry control? It's quite possible I haven't come far enough in my experience to need whatever situation this problem arises from?

[@yaayimanalien]

This video was very much cool. Could you do a video of fixing Ableton's PDC issues? Thanks.

[@ZeroArion]

back plss :(

[@Panzer731]

I'd just use an return track

[@major7thsharp11]

You got me good at 4:29. I will seek help.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Guess it has something to do with linear and logarithmic scales.

[@DatDaDatty]

yo u still there?

[@DylanTallchief]

any day now

[@JVDABEATS]

Good video, like always. Thx!

[@noel5124]

hey Dylan how are you

[@byoken]

Send this to the Ableton team and tell them to get to work and fix it.

[@natehubbard5062]

5:25 (Avagadro coughs from his grave)

[@landune3673]

DYLAN, I would love to see a "How to Tycho" video. Scott Hansen is an incredible producer. His style is very distinct and I think you could do a great take on it!

[@joseppi78]

The legend returns :D

[@50CalBeats]

Come back sir

[@Weaverbeats]

great video

[@bartosz_xenon]

lol hello there

[@thecarpenter_son]

Why are you doing it this way? You can simply mix the wet signal with the volume knob, which is what I taught we all been doing

[@LetsGoSabi]

Where'd u go bro miss your video so much :(

[@DJStuiter]

working on jukeblocks probably

[@AziDoesQuestionableThings]

dylan awakens

[@seomeenu]

where did you go

[@coopercook6878]

You should do a “How to Phonk”

[@5adb0i]

3db is an issue tho 3dB change = 2x or 1/2 POWER 6dB change = 2x or 1/2 VOLTAGE