Every digital camera has this problem (a rant)

[@jeffp1519]

Dave, as a Fuji fanboy here in the Bay Area, I do feel your pain when it comes to the menu system of all of the camera brands. I don’t think anyone is more superior or inferior than any other, as they all suck. However, the one thing that I do like about Fuji is that I can set it and forget it for the most part. I rarely ever ever have to go into the menu system, and if I do, I’ve probably favorited the item so that I can quickly get to it.

[@davidherring]

That's my experience with Leica, set it and forget it. Rarely in the Leica menu.

[@SamBugas]

Dude looks like you absolutely killed it with this wedding! Gorgeous shots with a cool vogue like quality. Excellent stuff

[@davidherring]

Thank you! Definitely felt out of place photographing it!

[@simonbnyc]

I couldn't agree more. When I returned to photography 3 years ago after an absence of many years, it was menu simplicity that first attracted me to Leica. I took one look at the menus of the other makes and my brain exploded!

[@davidherring]

Leica definitely understands the user experience.

[@SuperJackjackie]

Back when I switched from the Canon 5D4 to the Sony A7III, I was the first in my studio to make the jump. Spent about a week mapping out the "professional Sony menu" system, reorganising it into something more intuitive. That mindmap ended up being the go-to guide when others started transitioning to Sony. Gotta say, the Japanese menus have their charm-really get the engineer brain ticking-but navigating Sony and later Fuji menus feels like sitting a hidden exam every time I get a new camera.

[@davidherring]

I feel this!

[@jacopoabbruscato9271]

I think bloated menus are a consequence of the concept of hybrid camera. My ideal digital camera takes only stills and has a menu system that looks like blackmagic's does for video

[@davidherring]

You’re not wrong

[@ofthenearfuture]

I've been on Fuji for a bit now, but broke out my OG Nikon D200 recently and wow the menu was painful lol, but it was basically identical to my D7200 from 15 years later. Even on the Z bodies it's also still the same, so they really haven't change anything in ~20 years. Moving to Fuji was definitely a steep learning curve, especially learning the Fuji only image features, but like you said, you learn it so it's muscle memory and then just set it and forget it. The few options I actually change with any regularity I have them all on the first quick settings screen, so rarely go digging through the menus. But yeah, digital camera menus are all quite atrocious, and there seems to be a real aversion to change from the manufacturers. I feel like if a young kid who's only interacted with an iPhone or whatever picked up a camera today they'd be totally lost by the UI lol

[@davidherring]

Agreed! My 10yr old likes to use my cameras, but I only let him shoot film right now. Less to think about haha.

[@SourPlanet]

Felt the same with Nikon, Sony, and Fuji. My Leica M240? No features, no menu. Perfect 😅

[@davidherring]

Agreed, that’s perfection.

[@kwatson1378]

Hi, Fuji bro here. The menu interface is indeed abysmal. That is all.... No mibi not all actually. Those wedding shots are insane! First video of yours I've watched and you just gained a new subscriber!

[@davidherring]

Thanks! And welcome to the channel :-)

[@LensForgotten]

My biggest hot take is when you finally find a setting you want to change in the menu and it’s greyed out and won’t tell you why…. Ugh!

[@davidherring]

Ha I’ve been there! You gotta search for that one deep setting to change to unlock the next level.

[@houghwhite411]

​@@davidherring or having to come back and read manual Then it is not on the manual and I have to look for it by myself Ugh

[@robbiecale3327]

Uh that's not a hot take

[@ramblingcameraman990]

@@robbiecale3327 Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought this…

[@cjvanbeelen6789]

Totally agree Dave, great rant! I did a two year research on what type of camera system I wanted to buy after being out of the photo taking world for 30 years. I picked a simple Leica DLux 8. So, it has around 180 menu setting, while a Fuji camera has around 750, this is my understanding. Could be wrong, but I think you get the point, I just didn’t want to deal with all those buttons. Keep it simple.

[@davidherring]

750! Wow I guess I never even considered that. That’s nuts.

[@Pinchofgrain]

I agree with you so much that I gave up digital photography completely. I went back to film cameras lol

[@davidherring]

Good call!

[@alanclarke6195]

First time I stumbled across you Dave must agree I went from a Canon to Sony and back again a lot of it was due to the menu system and not been able to find a setting quickly

[@davidherring]

So much room for improvement.

[@JimmyCheng]

menu barrier is good for big companies to maintain their customers by making it harder for them to switch. I know for a fact some Canon users are reluctant to switch to Sony in the beginning simply due to menu differences.

[@davidherring]

Yeah I know several people who stay loyal to their brand because of complications learning new systems.

[@thomaskdrums]

Agree that there should be a way to simplify those menus. I'm not a Leica user, but they made the usage of the camera crazy simple. A friend once lend his Leica Q2 for a week and I didn't even have to look any video or tutorial about it. I just started shooting straight away and managed to change settings on the fly. But for the other brands out there, that's one of the reason why I'm very unlikely to change system for my digital camera because I don't want to go through that whole learning phase with a new system... Keep up the work ! Juste came acroos your video and I'll look forward to your more positive vibes on the channel :)

[@davidherring]

Thanks so much!

[@Nerdzombiedisco]

Sensor dust is my nemesis. Easy to clean on mirror and mirror less. But on the Qs and Ricoh GR, it's a real pain in my brown dot.

[@davidherring]

Sensor dust is my nemesis too!

[@_cyclofob8990]

The Leica menu is one of the first pros listed by Leica owners. Every switch to a different system is therefore a kick in the a..... With the M, there is also the fact that AF settings can be completely omitted.

[@davidherring]

Agreed

[@rexgigout1472]

Canon and Nikon pro and semi-pro DSLRs, that I have used, have physical controls that make it largely unnecessary to menu-dive, during a shoot. I especially like the Nikon D4s and D5. (I have not yet used the Nikon Z or Canon EOS R, so, do not know how they are set up.) I do love the nicely minimalist Leica M menus. When I have handled Sony and Fuji cameras, the menus and controls have looked quite intimidating. If I had to shoot a wedding or event, where AF would be important, I would use Nikon DSLRs, for shooting active subjects. Not being a professional photographer, I am not working for paying clients, thankfully, but, in a previous career, I had to photograph crime scenes, mostly at night, in challenging lighting conditions, in any weather, sometimes documenting active subjects, so, learned some few things about quickly adapting to conditions.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@erin.v.z]

I moved from a Nikon mirrorless (which felt like child’s play, especially after moving from their DSLR system) to Fuji which i felt like suddenly I needed a degree in software engineering to operate my camera. I love the SOOC images from it once I figured exactly what to set things to to make myself happy, so I’m gonna stick with it, but it’s a wild one to get settings right in. I’m also needing to send it in for the third time for repair under warranty (they keep breaking it more), and i dread having to reset it all when I get it back each time.

[@davidherring]

Yeah that reset won't be fun! I had a Fuji for a few years that I just shot JPG with film sims on. Never got into the menu, mostly because I didn't want to deal with it!

[@sophietucker1255]

I totally agree about the Fuji Menus. I have a GFX 50SII and it is a mess. I hate menus with submenus with subs within the subs. I’ve used Canon the longest and am more used to their menus but there are still times that I get lost. The worst is that Canon and Sony call it “soup” but Fuji and Nikon call the same thing “meat & potatoes”

[@davidherring]

Fuji is the absolute worst. Love their cameras, but I’ll never own one until they care about the UI.

[@michaelcoleman5058]

I feel your pain. My Nikon D800 had such a bad menu system that I sold the entire kit and purchased a Leica. Love the simplicity of the Leica menu which is continued throughout there entire range of cameras.

[@davidherring]

You made the right call.

[@Lorenzo_Melocchi]

Totally agree I’ve recently changed system and man I feel you

[@davidherring]

100%

[@p6till8s]

I feel you. I have a Leica M10-D that I only shoot in DNG. In the beginning I set the Whitebalance to daylight and the Auto-ISO and then never used the Menü again. My other Camera is Leica TL2. It‘s kind of the opposite, but I like the Menuesytem. It‘s simple and comfortable to use. It feels a bit like a modern Smartphone. Before that I had a Ricoh GR2 and a Fuji XE-1. Both excellent Cameras, but I really had problems to find the right settings. I started photography with a Canon A1. I think I’m too old for complex Menuesystems.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@theibecks]

Can we also add to the improvements list: help buttons that actually tell you sometime useful. Case in point: Sony’s anti-flicker option. The help button just says “turns on the anti-flicker feature”. Well no $h*t, Sherlock! What I was hoping for was which hz it would detect but no, I had to go and Google that. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@davidherring]

Ha that’s probably asking TOO much!

[@zwamqq]

i like how on nikons you can favorite your used settings but i agree they are still wonky the first time around

[@davidherring]

Most brands let you favorite, but all brands are wonky.

[@richball3260]

Your rant is spot on. I would submit that the manufactures have added so many features and capabilities the user ends up overwhelmed and frustrated. For the fun of it go to your Leica store and sit down with an SL3 and play with the menus. Leica did do a fine job of refining the menu system. Please don't think that since you have owned the SL2 that they are the same - They aren't.

[@davidherring]

The SL3 is great, I’ve used it a few times.

[@HELL-BENT74]

@@davidherringExcept for it’s battery life which is crap, unless one attaches a battery-grip.

[@chrischris1315]

I've used fuji's for years now (since the Xpro 1) and only have issues with the menus in the more recent cameras. More "features" and settings have bloated the interface. I recently went through a Leica M10's menu and was surprised by how light weight it was, a refreshing change.

[@davidherring]

The Leica M menu is about as good as it gets for a camera with a range of features.

[@srt10acrx]

Okay I'm only a few minutes into this video but I have to say that Sony is notorious for bad menus. I have a canon m50 and a Fuji Xe1 and I don't love the menus but they're honestly not that bad. I can easily setup the main things I need and then shoot without worrying about those setting. Anything I need to access can be saved or changed with switches or custom buttons

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing.

[@PeterHartland]

This is so funny, like you I just use Leica nowadays & have them set up with my user profiles. My friend phoned me tonight having just purchased a Nikon Z6 III & started asking me question on his menu. I was lost in minutes how to set it up for him to personalise.

[@davidherring]

For real! I love that my Leica is just a camera, not a computer.

[@tearsofglass88]

I highly doubt there will ever be a standard menu system across all makers, as that could encourage users to jump to other brands. Nikon menus feel familiar to Nikon users, canon menus feel familiar to canon users, etc. they want you to stay locked into their system if they can. As cameras get more and more complex with more features menus will inevitably get more bloated as cameras become more customizable.

[@davidherring]

Come on man, have faith. If not for us than for the children.

[@matthiaswinges9399]

I would love a simple question when starting a camera for the first time: Do you use video? I do not need this and most options tackle video features.

[@davidherring]

That's a great idea.

[@johnwinter8131]

I only ever shot on Leica in some bigger capacity and I must agree. Leica menus don’t bother me and I don’t ever really set anything for more than couple of seconds. Sad to hear that its so bad elsewhere.

[@davidherring]

Yeah, it's rough out there!

[@garymc8956]

We get spoiled using Leica and their great menu system. Recently had to return to use my Nikons and felt the fool, asking myself how to make this thing work. Just sold my X100V after my D-Lux 8 came including a menu system I can use.

[@davidherring]

Very spoiled.

[@Spearmanmark]

Yep, ideally, the menu for any device should meet the definition of elegant: gracefully concise and simple; admirably succinct, pleasingly ingenious.

[@davidherring]

Agreed!

[@JackTse]

Thanks Dave! I got in early this time! I learned a lot as usual!

[@davidherring]

Awesome! Glad to hear!

[@jdsd771007]

Funny I still shoot my A7riii. Great camera overall. I have my favorite settings locked in, but when I have to search, it’s hell🤣

[@davidherring]

I love that camera. And yes....total hell haha.

[@stuartdorman7125]

I love the range of lenses that Sony offers, but I cannot abide the menus. I lost count of how many times I missed the photo because my head was stuck looking for a setting. I finally had enough and sold the lot. No, autofocus on my SL2 / SL2S just can't compete, but the cameras are just so much more intuitive to use. A single screen menu, well laid out, for main photo settings, one touch toggle to the main video settings again on a single screen, and the option to dive deeper when you need it. The Q series follows the same UI ethos.

[@davidherring]

Leica has really great menus for their cameras, for sure.

[@CrnaInBela]

As a fuji user I really don't use the menu that much. I have X-E2s, X-T2 and X-H2s. Every camera has a pretty similar looking menu and different shooting style (the dials are different). I shoot events and use 7 functionally similar custom profiles on every camera. I use the profiles to assign 7 different shooting styles I want and then at the end I only use 2 80% of the time lol.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@The_golden_charlie]

My Leica Sl2 feels about right with its UI. 😊

[@davidherring]

Leica definitely does it best in regards to that body style, but Hasselblad has the most elegant menu.

[@polygoncoco]

As a product designer and user interface designer of more than 14 years now - I should do a video reviewing all of these from a designers perspective. I’m not disagreeing that most of these menu systems have room for improvement, but I’d love to look at trying to reverse engineer how they came to the decisions they came to. Maybe over Christmas if I have time 😅. I personally use Fuji and I shoot wildlife and birds so I set my x-h2 in a very specific way with the custom modes and I rarely have to go into settings. With my x100v/vi I set it once and never have to go into settings. But that initial setup is a nightmare for truly fresh users, having to go watch a KZbin video or read a manual to navigate the camera is a red flag.

[@davidherring]

They 100% have room for improvement.

[@polygoncoco]

@ thinking about it - they’re stuck in the pre-Apple era of product design. Post iPod and iPhone UI/UX and design had a major shift. They forced so many products to level up and provide proper experiences. Cameras feel like they’re stuck in 2004

[@timsep1]

I think the Leica SL series are decent, but the best I've tried still has to be the Hasselblad 907x/X1d menus, literally nothing on there can be mis-understood. Its fast to navigate and easy to access.

[@davidherring]

Agreed 100%

[@timsep1]

@@davidherring However, using the 907x for a wedding....... pass lol, unless you can afford the actual Hasselblad lenses you'd be in a world of hurt. I cant tell you how many times I've had a random led light decide to make itself known via the sensor readout slowness issue.

[@davidherring]

Oh yeah I couldn’t see myself shooting a wedding with that camera… or any camera actually haha. #noweddings

[@samjamsen]

I agree. I shot Nikon and Sony for 15 years and a year ago switched to Leica. The difference in menu systems is like day and night. Leica has a unified brand experience and voice throughout their hardware, camera UI and even software like Fotos and Lux. The other brands menus look like you're operating a 80's ms-dos pc. I tried Fuji for a little while with a few of their cameras and agree also that those menus are the worst.. typography nightmare with a Japanese twist with all respect to the Japanese.

[@davidherring]

Leica’s unified experience is really, really wonderful.

[@sophustranquillitastv4468]

I don't really understand what you need to access the menu in real time as I don't think aside from something you really need from the menu most of the time you don't need to access the menu at all. And because you don't really need to access the menu so much camera company don't change how the menu work.

[@davidherring]

I think of people that have a wide range of work in their photography. They may need to access menus more often.

[@chillnoqq]

UX Designer here, and you're absolutely right! They are all trash and most designers could probably do it better, which makes me think this is either a legacy or hardware problem in most manufacturers.

[@davidherring]

I feel like a team of UX designers could elevate the experience 100x and make camera usage more enjoyable. Surely it’s worth the investment from these camera makers.

[@chillnoqq]

@@davidherring 100%!!

[@Kubilai-i6j]

M11-D. Perfect camera menu system.

[@davidherring]

Agreed

[@timbradburn3967]

Thank you Dave: good rant, nicely argued. I wasn't aware that Fuji was outstandingly bad (I understood Sony to be worse), but it was a major excuse for ditching them to finally move to Leica (which I really always wanted to do anyway). I had a day out, where it was cold and the light was fading, and I wanted to use a tripod, and couldn't remember where to switch off the IBIS, and I though f... this, enough is enough. Surely it isn't so bad if you use the camera every day as a professional, but many of us don't get chance as average consumers with other jobs. In fairness, I am not so sure it is entirely the menus themselves, but the huge and endlessly increasing volumes of features that the (mainly Japanese) manufacturers try to cram in, in order to win the spec-list pissing contest ! How about voice commands ???

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@healthid]

Amen. As a former UX designer, I just couldn't tolerate the Sony menus. They were a dealbreaker for me. So Leica - bless them for keeping it simple. And adding physical controls for the stuff you want to change often. But yeah, in general, camera menus suck. Next: Can we talk about photo printing and the unholy mess that is Photoshop + printer software? Yeesh.

[@davidherring]

Printer software in general is about 20yrs behind. Also regarding physical controls… my car is awful for that. I have a VW ID.4 and it’s all touch, from the volume to the climate control and everything else. Awful design when you’re driving.

[@healthid]

@@davidherring Absolutely. Touchscreen on a bumpy road no bueno, even as a passenger.

[@erikverdeyen]

Hopefully people in the marketing and the design departments of these manufacturers will one day take notice of your and other's rants. I fear it's an organizational flaw engrained in corporate culture. In many processes user experience is an afterthought. This is not limited to software or hardware; look at customer journeys throught product and service providers. Also, look at how bad the interfaces are in modern cars. Until Tesla came along they were all - and many still are - badly designed. If only manufacturers would do what (part of) the digital sector has been doing for years: focus groups, reading feedback in forums, interaction design with user testing... I haven't been lucky enough to test the Hasselblad X2D but videos show that the interface is not only gorgeous but also very well thought out. Now in Leica land not all is perfect either: How is it possible you can't mount their cameras that have internal storage (e.g., the M11 and M11-P) as a hard drive when you plug them in to your computer. How difficult can it be?... As for the EU. Yes they gave us USB-C for iPhones, but they also killed off our car industry by mandating it should be electric by 2035 (instead of mandating cars should be net-zero emission, leaving manufacturers the choice on how to reach that goal). I would be careful what I wish for when calling upon bureaucrats in their ivory tower.

[@davidherring]

We can only hope marketing and design get on board with it! I think there are a lot of new features coming to cameras that give opportunity to simplify and bloat cameras further - content authentication and internal memory can go either way. Hasselblad has been elegant in their design. Hopefully others will follow.

[@stevenj2380]

Fix this and maybe whole menu 'House of cards' crap will undo. One-touch / one-button master setting to enable or disable back-button focus. It should follow that related shutter, then metering settings, and so on, could be grouped and logical Nikon DSLR has front toggle focus mode switch and I wish BBFocus was one of the settings. Pentax, K-, then Nikon (from D7200-7500-D750 to now D810 and Zf, Z7ii,) user for my own walk-around use .

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing

[@Funktrainer]

Actually, I really like the logical menu system on the Hasselblad H2/H3 series a lot. The only camera bodies I know of where the user is able to put anything on the four function buttons. My most hated menu systems: 1. Fujifilm 2. SONY 3. Nikon

[@davidherring]

Fuji is the king of menu insanity for sure!

[@Chromatomic]

I eventually got used to the Sony menus but the Fuji menus are worse just because things are hidden deeper into the menu chains so you can’t even find them easily at a glance.

[@davidherring]

Yeah Fuji is a hot mess.

[@老实人-g9n]

Forgive me that, at the beginning of this video, I thought you wanted to talk about cliche that film camera is superior than digital camera because it is close the the essential of photography or something. Then I realized you didn't. 100% agree with you. In other perspective, this trashy menu stuff sets up a gate/bar to normal people so we as photographer can keep our job haha

[@davidherring]

Ha, thanks!

[@HighlyAkicktive]

They should add a touch control for voice commands so that you just can call right away what you're looking for

[@davidherring]

Ha

[@macboy001]

Utterly agree, Olympus and Fuji drove me nuts. Canon and Nikon not a whole lot better. One of the primary reasons that drove me back to film initially

[@davidherring]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot… I love the simplicity of my film cameras.

[@Lanesra71]

lol just let it all out Dave! ….. it’s some very fair points that are not off the mark. Majority of people don’t even use a vast amount of the menu.

[@davidherring]

Haha right?

[@marcusnz232]

Hasselblad X2D. Best UI and menu system of any camera on the market by a country mile.

[@davidherring]

Agreed

[@mandiworld]

I have an XT-3 and it's menus are not as bad as my A7III. I feel whenever I pick up my Sony, I need a refresher course. Reason why do not use as much. We're getting spoiled with Leica.

[@davidherring]

Haha truth

[@richa2495]

Your video made me laugh. Totally agree. My M10 is so clean and simple. Thanks for the tip on 5200k for white balance from a previous video.

[@davidherring]

5200 is where it’s at

[@stevemcmahon6803]

The Sony menus are a nightmare until the muscle memory sets in. The ergonomics are terrible as well until you get all your buttons and dials and quick functions established. Then you begin to appreciate the deep menus and the incredible level of customization of everything that is possible. On most shoots you won’t need to open the menu even once. And then one day at the most inopportune time during a wedding or corporate gig, a situation will arise where an obscure menu item needs to be changed immediately. This will fall outside the realm of your muscle memory and you will spend an eternity scrolling through a hundred menu pages, missing the shot or grinding the production to a halt, looking like a complete amateur.

[@davidherring]

Did this comment come from a personal experience? 😬

[@blakerooney291]

I have a sony A7R V and a Leica SL3. The Sony menus almost made me trade it away. I really hate the menu system. The picture quality and the lens options, and prices made me keep it. They have a basic menu in front but it's hard to tell what the options are on the page. I would be curious to know how many Sony cameras are returned for that reason. The Leica menus are far better but still irritating on occasion.

[@davidherring]

Sony quality is awesome but yeah, menus are rough. Leica is definitely better in regard to experience, but no one has figured it out yet.

[@JohnRicard]

There is nothing wrong with making an intelligent rant on a situation that we have been dealing with for decades. No need to apologize.

[@davidherring]

Haha thanks

[@StreetPhotographyChannel]

Editorial photographer here. After working with many brands, I find the Canon menus are the most intuitive on the market.

[@davidherring]

Canon is definitely a better experience.

[@StreetPhotographyChannel]

@@davidherring I appreciate that a photographer like you recognizes this. Not a Canon fan boy ( I am not of any brand) but just talking about the experience. My respect for you increases. Said among us: I owned only a Leica in the past, and not M series, only a Leica X2. I would have the chance in future to back to work with a Leica and Monochrom M would be perfect to me. I love your videos including Leica cameras.

[@davidherring]

Thank you!

[@djduffy1000]

Hi Dave, I do get where you coming from, I know some of the menu systems on the cameras is far from straight forward but to be honest...OK I shall stop there a second. I used to shoot weddings even back in the day when it was film on my trusty Bronica and a Canon EOS 1, I know things were simpler then but the stress oh my God not knowing if it was OK until you had it all processed. What I am getting at is I had to know my cameras inside out and check every last thing over I would have never gone into a situation until I new exactly what setting I was going to use, I would do a reeckie/reconnaissance before hand and have in my mind everything. You could have gone over your Sony cameras well before hand and known what settings you were going to use and have them all set up but as you said you got some great photos

[@davidherring]

Did I say that I didn't go over them well before? I certainly did. A few days before, actually. Still doesn't change the fact that the menu is cumbersome. Thanks for your comment.

[@djduffy1000]

@@davidherring Sorry misunderstood.

[@brotherted9212]

This critique doesn't resonate with me at all. Why? Because I've assigned the functions I use most often to physical buttons on the Sony a7Riii, and I've put the functions I use a little less in the custom function menu. That covers practically everything I do. There may be very few actions I haven't ever bothered to assign to either the buttons or the function menu, but those cases are both rare and are never needed in a run-and-gun instant scenario, so the main menu just isn't an issue for me. I believe if you went back to full time Sony shooting, you'd forget about this issue.

[@davidherring]

I do use Sony full time - for video. Thanks for the comment.

[@MakePictures]

product designer here- a perfect camera would have no menus. menus exist cuz there are features we dunno where/how to design it into the product so that they're intuitive, so we stick them into a list as a last resort, "at least they can access it". many of these features we probably should ask why should they access it? would they care if they didn't know about such options? sadly, it's probably an outcome of the feature race between camera companies so i don't see menus getting less cluttered or going away in the future. but yea nobody likes menus. we just don't enjoy reading through a dry list of options as a method of deciding something.

[@davidherring]

You just described the Leica M11-D.

[@MakePictures]

@@davidherring honestly, if i could afford any of the D's i wouldn't hesitate to pick one up.

[@jaredweinstockphoto]

great video, Dave. Sold my Sony system because the menus were so terrible.

[@davidherring]

Now that is commitment to good menus.

[@MeAMuse]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. The 80-20 rule says you use 20% of the setting 80% of the time (you can maybe even take it to the 90-10 rule). Menus these days everyone has a “favorites” menu, and that’s where I put everything I actually use. If you think you are going to go from not using something for over a year, to assuming that you don’t need to practice to re-engage muscle memory… well there is the problem. Hell I forget where things are on my car when I have not driven in a while :)

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing

[@ansgarbook712]

as Nikon shooter I have no complaints :-) Leica s great too

[@davidherring]

Haven't used a Nikon in MANY years, but Leica is great for sure.

[@yaffulwoodpeckerpresents7784]

And while you're about to it - why can't we have one RAW file system?

[@davidherring]

Would be amazing. One raw to rule them all.

[@markcartwright9231]

Fuji. No use of menus necessary (except to calibrate diopter).

[@davidherring]

You couldn't even use them if you wanted to haha

[@itskylehale]

Preach. Almost all camera menus are so dated. Agree that Hassy X2D is chefs kiss.

[@davidherring]

For sure!

[@martinheindl581]

100% I‘m using the A7iv and A7iii as a B cam and switching between these two menus is the worst thing ever… especially on events when everything has to be in no time

[@davidherring]

Right? Hot mess.

[@poisondwarf69]

I live in Tokyo, your gripe is actually about Japanese software design...you should see website and other interfaces made here, it's all like that...fonts all over the place, things squished together...basically everyone works all day on very complex spreadsheets on outdated Windows computers and that translates into their design, it won't change unfortunately.

[@davidherring]

Geeeeeez

[@kiwipics]

I love the Canon menus as they stay roughly the same regardless of the age of the body. I like the Leica T, TL, and TL2 menuas .. easy to customise. I love the Lumix menus for the same reason as the Canon menus ... Easy.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing

[@arsenikkkk]

100% agreed! Leave a camera for a couple of months and the menu knowledge disappears. Also stress and alcohol make my menu setting skills non-existent :)

[@davidherring]

Haha

[@cedartreefilms]

Blackmagic menu is the gold standard

[@davidherring]

I haven't used a BMC in a long time. I think it was an early cinema camera, and I remember the menu being very minimal.

[@vikdaddy]

They didn't systemise cameras by putting the lens in the centre and the shutter on the right. It was logical decision-making because lenses should sit between your eyes and most people are right-handed.

[@davidherring]

Right, but it's still systematized. Menus could benefit from the same thing.

[@jeromeraymundo8255]

Sony menu experience becomes better once you use "My Menu"

[@davidherring]

Sure, but the point is... it's a hot mess by default.

[@DanaPushie]

Well said. I shoot Canon and Fuji and yup the Fuji menu is much worse. But then again, as a one-handed southpaw, no camera company makes a camera for me. Perhaps the camera companies will get over their preoccupation with Megapixels some time soon and focus (sorry) on the move to computerization of cameras. Just maybe, they might ask a photographer about designing a menu, instead of an engineer. Don't hold your breath. How about anti theft? Someone steals your phone, it's a brick; your camera, no problem.

[@davidherring]

Yeah there is a lonnnng way to go in camera software.

[@bernardlesperance742]

So, aside from, yes, a rant, what's the outcome, the lesson, of it all? I'd say rather than blame the menus (though, admittedly, I empathize) try building your confidence and shoot your next wedding with your Leicas. Yea, avoid all those rant-inducing (and tantrum-inducing?) crappy menus in the first place. If it's of any inspiration, I personally know (and know of) some photographers that shoot weddings with Leica M bodies and lenses - and get phenomenal results.

[@davidherring]

Ok.

[@PitNeex]

After touch screens have come to digital cameras and we know how this can help the user experience as it does in smartphones there is no excuse. Especially for Sony that is also in the smartphone business. Too bad Samsung left the camera business, they were less traditional and experimental.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@haakon_b]

Just use Nikon or Canon. Sony does consumer electronics and it shows in the ergonomics. Fuji is even worse.

[@davidherring]

I use Leica for photography 99% of the time, but if I have to go anywhere else...it's miserable.

[@grahamfield1570]

Cameras need to be ergonomically designed. The camera companies need to listen to users. They also need usets to beta test new modrls.

[@davidherring]

Agreed

[@jefflaitila9799]

It must be cold where you are. You even have to wear a winter hat indoors.

[@davidherring]

Only in my heart.

[@drwatsonismine]

Love this! Agree 100%

[@davidherring]

Thanks!

[@drwatsonismine]

@ your welcome. So appreciate your channel.

[@utgbanduk]

6:40 hahaha, indeed. LOTS!

[@davidherring]

Haha

[@warren4261]

so have today's cameras just become far too complicated ? I think so & probably use 10 % of the features that are offered. To your point fortunately many offer a menu page that you can customize & add the settings you use frequently ... i never look at the other menus, just the one I customized for myself.

[@davidherring]

Yeah, you can build a custom menu. But overall, I still think their design is poor.

[@gshocker77]

Great video… I think UI design is lost on most camera manufacturers. They make a great piece of hardware and phone in the interface. People who don’t complain tend to be people who are only invested in a single system and have not experienced the poor design across most of the industry.

[@davidherring]

This is it. The UI is an afterthought.

[@trashpanther2296]

As a Fuji user I got to say the menu layout is great. Don’t you just love having to Google how to change everything on the camera?

[@davidherring]

Haha

[@erin.v.z]

I’m glad this went in a sarcastic direction 😂

[@trashpanther2296]

Oh I really loved finding out there was an autofocus issue on AFTER my trip to London. I love the out of focus pictures from my once in a lifetime trip…

[@MrPiotrowicz]

I just bought a Fuji camera when I was shooting from Canon in the past. Oh boi is this menu a dumpster fire. Hundreds of options, different font sizes. It's a nightmare. And I thought Canon was bad. I'd love to see something like Leica. I don't need milion of options as I only shoot for fun. Can't afford Leica though. :D

[@davidherring]

Leica definitely does it well compared to the other systems. Fuji is the absolute worst.

[@noenken]

The design of a camera was never up for discussion, tbh. Most people are just right handed so the grip is on the right and operating anything is always done with your index finger (because your thumb is holding the thing), so that determined the rough position of the shutter button. Same with JPEG, it is a requirement because it is the standard image format for web browsers. Companies will not agree on anything. For example besides JPEG they all have different RAW formats. Card systems, mounts, batteries, ... menu systems. Annoying, I know. But it won't change. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@davidherring]

How dare you come at me with reason and rational explanations?

[@RemlichtFilm]

The problem is you don't use this gear regularly.

[@davidherring]

Wellllll….. I’ve been shooting professionally for 20yrs, and regarding these Sony’s I have used the A7RIII for hundreds of thousands of photos. My “lack of experience” with these cameras is not reality. Poorly designed UI is.

[@johntocho8954]

Or just stay with Leica.

[@davidherring]

I mean that was never not the plan…

[@FoarteMisto]

Did they pay you?

[@davidherring]

Did who pay me for what?

[@FoarteMisto]

@@davidherring at that friends' wedding shoot. Did they put some money for your effort or was just a very friendly gesture from you ?

[@davidherring]

Just a friendly gesture!

[@FoarteMisto]

@@davidherring You are a pretty good dude then. Also thanks for the tips and genuine thought in your videos.

[@davidherring]

Thanks!

[@grahamfield1570]

Why do manufacturers sell you an expensive camera that come with a terrible camera strap. Every brand does it. WTF.

[@davidherring]

I have never once used a manufacturers strap.

[@laurencewhite4809]

Complaining about the menu on a great camera is like complaining about the napkins at a great restaurant.

[@davidherring]

Ok

[@john3Lee]

Agreed !!

[@davidherring]

Maybe one day it will get better.

[@ericmorales1934]

I hate the Fuji menu, but still love it! Lol and for me the best Menu is in Canon honestly, the Sony look so complicated that I get anxiety trying to work it.

[@davidherring]

So many systems can say “great camera, horrible menu.” Fuji is such an example of this.

[@ansleystewart130]

GFX as far as I’m concerned has always been the worst offender of this. 10K (MSRP) and has a menu system from Duck Hunt on NES.

[@davidherring]

Haha yes Fuji has THE WORST menu of ANY camera.

[@slalom1987]

Step 1: get a lumix, Step 2: thank me later 😂

[@davidherring]

Ha thanks

[@moonshine7374]

Dude, you're grown up professional, it's kinda expected that you're able to remember a few settings in the menu than you use the most and adjust some custom buttons for your needs. Can we stop dumbing down things around us please?

[@davidherring]

Thanks for the reminder. ✌🏼