Everything I Hate About Star Wars: Shatterpoint

[@ownlyjoeking1001]

So, to summarize, "A ton of stuff comes in the core box, but it's expensive and I want there to be more." lmao

[@TotalBlank]

I thought this was your best upload yet! Very informative, straight to the point, got your camera setup to show off your massive collection behind you. Keep it up!

[@AdamRoffel]

❤

[@Dangerman64]

Knowing the cards will come with time. I do agree a few more dice would be nice and double damage tokens. My biggest issue is also the rulebook is a mess when trying to find a specific rule and teach new people.

[@AdamRoffel]

Very much agree with this!

[@davevankesteren]

I think I resonate with most of this. Really small and nitpicky things, but overall a solid view. Glad to see most of these issues can be rectified with a bit of money and rule updates, and that nothing seems fundamentally broken!

[@AdamRoffel]

Thanks for watching Darrin!

[@NeroHeresy]

It’s not expensive. I bought the core set NIB for $120. You can’t play half an army in 40K for that and in Shatterpoint you get 2 STRIKE TEAMS!!! Plus you get TERRAIN!!!

[@s7r49]

idk seems a lot cheaper than warhammer. I was just worried because a lot of my friends have said they dont like the gameplay and its too complicated and keep coming across rule issues. I think I'm going to get it anyway and hope i can find other people to play with because I dont know they will stick to it

[@noshelfspace]

Once you have the rules nailed down, like any game, it gets easier and quicker to play. It is a bit much to teach to someone brand new if you are very advanced, though.

[@tomsidener]

I know you mentioned it but my complaint is also, lack of damage tokens. You can buy dice and rulers but there is no way to get more tokens.

[@noshelfspace]

Agreed!

[@thorstenschons7206]

I just find the part about the measurement tools a bit too nitpicky, because you normally need only one at a time and you don't need to grab over the board if you place them were both can easily grab them. And I don't know about any other skirmishes / tabletop war game that has in the core boy more than one set of those. The dice thing is just mildly inconvenience, but in some warhammer games I had cases where even 36 dice weren't enough so sure, you can always have more dice. The pricing for the core boy is in my opinion okay, especially for what you actually get from it. With a lesser value you will probably get less terrain, which is actually important for a game that leans heavily into verticallity and that would suck. Or two squads less, which would also suck. Like each squad is like 50 bucks so the squads alone are 200 bucks and then terrain is another 50 and just say all the extra tools or another 50 bucks. I paid 150 for it and would probably spend 300 if I would buy all of that stuff individually.

[@AdamRoffel]

Love the comment! Thanks for watching I appreciate it. I do love this game!

[@thorstenschons7206]

And if you have it 2v2, you still have to constantly check if what your partner does triggers stuff on your side and vice versa, so it doesn't change that much

[@AdamRoffel]

Disagree here. I know my characters, and when my partner does something I can tell them, “Hey I can do this.” Or if they are contemplating something I can say, “I can help you this way.”

[@thorstenschons7206]

Sure, but idk why 6 units with their rules are hard to look over when you have the references and even remember symbols on the activation cards to even remind you things exist and activate. It is just 6 units. Other skirmisher have 6 units often as the bare minimum for very elite troupes to remember, often even double that amount. I can barely think about any board game that has less thinks to track off besides stuff you can play with kids, and even those can ask the kid to remember 8 things at once with references. I mean sure, how those stuff interact is a bit more complicated, but this is why the rules stand on the cards. You have to simply look at the current unit often times that activates, look if it can interact with any other model you play and then look which unit could interact on its own ( which are few in the core box, like ahsoka and I guess it was another one that allow you to move after taking damage. That is not that much of reaction to remember. And for 2v2 you still need to know if someone of your partners squad could interact with yours or vice versa in a beneficial way for certain actions. So you have to ask/ look / know your partners squad Infos and abilities before planning ahead to make sure you and your partner are being efficient. For the short term, yes it is easy but at one point you have to learn the core game loop because tournaments are 1v1. And with the quiet time, that goes for almost any board game you play where someone has to think about their move. Imagine people saying chess is bad because you can't chat with your opponent.

[@AdamRoffel]

@@thorstenschons7206 never once said this game was bad. And I won’t play chess because it’s boring so 🤷‍♂️

[@thorstenschons7206]

And to the part with the amount of models: Warcry or other skirmishes like kill team have also 7 to even 12 models with individual rules often. I mean, heck, non skirmishes even have way more than that. And 2v2 is hard on tournaments, because you need to communicate with your partner about what to do right in front of your enemy.

[@AdamRoffel]

1v1 for tournament play for sure!

[@rolvirata9003]

I would say the best way to promo/demo the game is just using 1 squad each. Then eventually move up to 2 squads.

[@jgodwin17]

To be fair Warcry and Kill Team’s miniature profiles have far less rules, particularly Warcry. I can play 3 games of Warcry with 12 models a side in the time it takes for a single game of Shatterpoint. Also worth noting that models in Warcry and Kill Team come off the table pretty quickly and they certainly do not in Shatterpoint.

[@TheBishop404]

1. Price: Is okay in my opinion, there are two full tournament legal armies included. Most other core boxes don‘t offer enough out of the box. 2. Dice: True, should be more. 3. Token/rulers: Is okay for one player, dont see this as an issue. 4. Reference sheets: Yes, would ne nice. 5. 2v2: No, there you lost me… I never would suggest or want to play it it 2v2. It isn’t an easy game and other similiar games like Infinity are much more complex. 6. Rule book: True, could be better.

[@noshelfspace]

I need to revise this video. For tournament play or very competitive play, yes 1v1 is the way to go. But if you are picking this up to play with a group of friends, I’d rather get more people involved, as it becomes more of a social activity (when the hyper competitively is gone).

[@SootyWebster]

Cheaper than 40k. Does not suffer from GW FOMO sell out issues. Starter intro mission/how to play walk through would have been good. Campaign would have been good. Miniatures are fantastic but the light sabres are very fragile

[@noshelfspace]

Thankfully haven't had the issues with lightsabers (yet, knock on wood), but it is something I'm seeing a lot! A built in How-To-Play guide would be FANTASTIC to walk through the different situations that come up.

[@clamrollvideos]

So while all these things are indeed nitpicky, as someone just getting into the game, let me just say you're not wrong. The price is generally ok for the base and standard squad boxes. Coming from wargaming, specifically games workshop, I felt like we got a lot of terrain and minis in the box. Dice at $15usd isn't bad. Similar thoughts on the rulers. While they both add to the price point, for a wargame you generally don't need the bits for 2 people, as you expect your opponnent to show up with a team, dice, etc. This does feel more board gamey tho. We have had 2 core sets for our full sized games tho, so rulers and damage tokens were a total non issue. A block of small red D6's (or whatever color you have) should be a great way to track damage while minimizing fiddliness, of which there is a ton already. What really concerns me are these odd boxes. The vader & obi wan diorama box is cool as a hobbyist, but as someone who plays the game, it's concerning. It's so expensive, the diorama has no scenery you can use in the game. It's almost twice the price of squad box, with only 2 characters. Similar concerns with the price point of the padawan ahsoka, though that one seems like it's an early release? There absolutely should be 2 card-sized guides. Players have been remedying this, but there's no excuse that we don't have em from AMG. I found intro games to be better with 1 squad each. This idea of 2v2 is intriguing. You're entirely correct about the "oh god hold on, lemme scour these 6 cards, I think I can do something maybe?" delays. The rulebook is not great. it's not the worst I've seen, but it's certainly in need of some clarifying, and maybe even some streamlining of keywords etc. Defintely going to try 2v2, maybe even as a teaching thing, where we have 1 "experienced" player on each side. Thank you for the suggestion! Fun game though, albeit swingy. As great as it is that you can come back when behind, that also means you can lose a solid lead. You're completely right, all these things just seem to be a barrier to having fun in your first handful of games, as there's so much to keep track of and get down pat, especially without a good quick reference. A few games in without em, and we were still getting disarmed, strained, and other statuses incorrect, as well as pushes. And I'd still love for someone to explain the shove ruler, especially since shoves are range 1 I thought?

[@noshelfspace]

This might be the most in-depth and thought out comment I have ever received across both my channels! Appreciate all the thoughts and the time you took watching my video!

[@bardylon]

All reasonable points. Hate is probably a bit strong. These are more mild inconveniences & the high price is just a reflection of the current global economy & it’s reasonable when compared with other new games released this year. Can’t really compare value with core sets released 3-5 years ago.

[@noshelfspace]

"Hate" is more for the series of videos. They are all, "Everything I hate About 'X" " Thanks for watching!

[@jaerbear7237]

The die and markers were the bits I found lacking. I haven’t played yet, but I’m experienced in WH to know there isn’t enough. Watching Batreps confirmed it for me. I think we need more perspectives like yours to help grow the game. I am excited to dig into this.

[@noshelfspace]

I think I might get discredited a bit here as I'm fairly new to this type of experience - I'm more of season'd board game player!

[@hydra66]

Thanks for the vid. The game in its current version probably isn't for me. Will keep an eye on it though

[@thorstenschons7206]

But, totally agree on the rules, they are convoluted and weirdly worded, especially line of sight, cover and other stuff. Could have been better worded or explained and I hope it will in future updates. Reference sheet is okay too and I really missed a more obvious link to download the assembly guide. It took me a while to find it, which was annoying a bit. Also, building the battle Droid was a nightmare, because of gluing small surface areas together is always hard

[@WhiskeyjackZA]

I think it is a lot tougher to write rules than people think. Clear and flowing prose, might leave room for interpretation and not cover all aspects. This can be addressed by more rules and more sentences explaining every exception and what is meant by previous sentences. This is a fairly common approach...but it comes with its own trade-offs like longer rules books, rules spread out in the rule book and people reading selectively (big problem). Writing more concise, comes with more convoluted, technical ("weirdly worded") and abstract rules language (meaning not necessarily intuitive / as it works in other games) - that reads more technical and is not flowing. I do think however, a big part of what I call the "brain melt" for this game is coming from people that approach it from the perspective of 95% of other games (that share a lot of overlap with things like LoS, cover and rules style).

[@noshelfspace]

Heard so many complaints about putting together the droids! My father-in-law did the assembly and painting, and he did mention the droids were tough.

[@noshelfspace]

@@WhiskeyjackZA Solid statement right here.

[@marksantos848]

I got mine on launch day. I also disagree on the measurement tools. Ya, more would be nice but not really needed! I agree on the dice. 4 more grey and 2 more blue would be good for 95% of situations. Right now I’m wishing for extra dice at least 35-40% of the time. I took your advice from an article you wrote and tried this 2v2 - game changer, it’s so much more fun just focusing on 3 cards and 4 units!

[@The_Rising_Ape]

The Dice and Rulers for me are a minor thing, I don't mind rerolling/sharing if it stops them adding even more to the initial cost. For me the most disappointing thing is the lack of a battle mat, even a paper one, in the box. While some table top gamers may have mats to spare, I'm not one of them and being on a strict budget for life never mind hobby I find it difficult to justify £40+ for what is really just a large pretty picture. A folded paper battle mate would have just made this the perfect box imo.

[@AdamRoffel]

That’s a good thought! We have been just using a tan fabric on the table.

[@theconversationalpainter2020]

It's $220 here in Australia but we are used to paying more for everything. 😂

[@noshelfspace]

Yup, I have a few friends in Australia to swat me every time I mention Canadian video game prices!

[@robbie_g8308]

Marvel Crisis protocol has 5 peeps roughly per team with way more triggers abilites etc

[@Karak-Fak]

“Hate” is just clickbait

[@mih2]

I was ready to feel the hate for clickbait moaning, but you nailed it. Typical FFG/Asmodee - not enough dice, high price when many of us are suffering financially and a terrible rulebook. Worst rulebook I've seen in a while.

[@noshelfspace]

Appreciate the response!

[@2foleym]

I actually think the 2v2 being better then 1v1 to start is a feature, not a bug.

[@noshelfspace]

Agreed! Worded that one horribly I will say!

[@koencambre7215]

You aren't even getting that much in the box... When compared to other games, 16 models and some terrain isn't anything exceptional or even great. It just makes the cheaping out on measurement tools and dice even more noteworthy.

[@AdamRoffel]

There needs to be more dice when you are OFTEN throwing more than what the box provides.

[@Hardstyleeerrr]

I mean, if you break the price of the core box down (and any tabletop core box for this matter) they will be EXTREMELY cost effective. And that is their purpose: To get you into the game, to make you buy more. And thats absolutely fine because it works this way in MANY other genres too. Yes, the Shatterpoint corebox is expensive on an objective scale but if you compare cost effectiveness its an off the charts good deal. Expecting a second set of measurement tools or additional dice if arguably fair but unreasonable in the grand scheme of things when a dicepack costs you about the same as a McDonalds Menu does nowadays. Look at the (any console, really) playstation for example. They sell with a slight loss to a slight win (regional/national differences) and average out at selling for cost price in the end. They are meant to get you into the "hobby" and then they make their winnings on the additional sales of games and peripherals etc. (hence why controllers are always notoriously expensive). Personally, I think the Shatterpoint box brings immense value and insane cost effectiveness to the consumer and easily justifies buying an additional dice set.

[@Rubo2333]

MCP is the best core set for any miniatures game I have played, I can confidently say that it's a required purchase (or at least it was before the crisis updates). Shatterpoints core set feels more like a tax since the value just isn't as good.

[@Emperor_Atlantis]

I would rather have seen seperate terrain and even game nessecities. None of the core box models speak to me. I would only want to use Grevious, Dooku and Jangofett. So I need to spend 300euros to get into this game. No thanks, I rather spend that amount to start playing Armada that I have been eyeballing 😂

[@bageldrone]

nope disagree with most of your points, dice and templates sure if you're sharing 1 box. but the rest are things you will just get better at over time. think you're playing something wrong if you're taking that much damage

[@noshelfspace]

Thanks for the comment! I think the damage issue becomes less of a problem as we learn to move our units better / keep them out of combat unless required. Cheers!

[@hawkthetraveler6344]

just do an all around review.

[@camwardart]

Ya you get terrain in the starter box but you are literally paying 160-200$ for like 12 minis. I think that’s super F’d up regardless of how “terrrrrain!” You put in the box

[@noshelfspace]

Thanks! I see people passionately on both sides of this argument haha!

[@Kerath]

My biggest problem is the „Art Direction” for all the portraits and even the tokens. They feel so standard and cartoony, certainly could be done more with that Star Wars license.

[@noshelfspace]

This is based on the Clone Wars show I believe, so the art direction does make sense. I think Legions is their more realistic tabletop experience (art wise).

[@clydefroglol]

Imagine not buying the extra dice and range rulers available for purchase and then complaining about it.

[@noshelfspace]

Um what? I did buy them. I'm saying that there should be more in the core box.....

[@fulcrum8583]

It's too gamey and suffers from all officially-licensed Star Wars miniatures games lately: It does not feel like Star Wars. Shatterpoint in particular with how it is set up for both players to field balanced small strike teams feels like a saturday morning tv superhero-cartoon with a Star Wars skin. A gorgeous Star Wars skin, but no real substance beyond it. A Star Wars game should embrace a non-tournament game style with asymetric forces fighting for very different mission objectives and with slanted vicory conditions, just like in the movies and shows. Especially in miniatures gaming, this is possible. All these games which delude themselves into being as "balanced" as possible to make them tournament-viable just miss out on a vast number of possibilities and playstyles, which also limits the design space for the developers. This approach would demand some thinking and collaboration of the players, though... What a shame.